Tisdale on the "17 year itch" – Yes, there is a Santer clause

Guest post by Bob Tisdale

What Do Observed Sea Surface Temperature Anomalies and Climate Models Have In Common Over The Past 17 Years?

One word answer: NOTHING!!!!

OVERVIEW

In this post, we’ll compare satellite-based sea surface temperature anomalies (Reynolds OI.v2) for the past 17 years to the multi-model ensemble mean of the climate models that were prepared for the 2007 4th Assessment Report (AR4) of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. We’ve already showed how poorly the models simulate the warming rates of the global oceans on an individual ocean basis for the entire 30-year term of the Reynolds OI.v2 sea surface temperature data. Refer to the posts here and here, and more recently here. So the failings of the models come as no surprise. But this post does present something that will come as a surprise to many of you.

The choice of 17 years is based on the Santer et al (2011) paper, Separating Signal and Noise in Atmospheric Temperature Change: The Importance of Timescale. In the abstract, Santer et al (2011) conclude with:

Our results show that temperature records of at least 17 years in length are required for identifying human effects on global-mean tropospheric temperature.

Since sea surface temperature anomalies are not as variable as lower troposphere temperature (TLT) anomalies, we’ll assume that 17 years would also be an acceptable timescale to present sea surface temperature anomaly trends on a hemispheric, or greater, basis. This was the foundation for an earlier post that compared models and the same sea surface temperature dataset. And we’ll also divide the oceans into their individual basins to illustrate why I’ve presented, as one combined dataset, the Indian and Pacific Oceans from pole to pole.

While the failings of the models might come as no revelation, something else might—but first a note to build the suspense. Combined, the Indian and Pacific Oceans from pole to pole (90S-90N, 20E-70W) represent about 75% of the surface area of the global oceans. See Figure 1. It’s a map of the global oceans that’s been divided into two sections: the “Indian & Pacific Ocean Plus” and “Atlantic Ocean Plus” where the “Plus” is used to note that the datasets have been extended to the South and North Poles.

Figure 1

Why are we dividing the ocean into those two subsets? Here comes the surprise.

The sea surface temperature anomalies for the combined Indian and Pacific Oceans from pole to pole show basically no warming for the past 17 years. None, nada, zip. See Figure 2. The cooling of the entire Pacific Ocean is strong enough since 1995 and the Pacific is so large that we can merge its data with the still-warming Indian Ocean data and wind up showing the combined dataset has not warmed for 17 years. Again, the Indian and Pacific Oceans represent 75% of the surface of the global oceans and together they have not warmed in 17 years.

Figure 2

Also illustrated in Figure 2 is the multi-model ensemble mean for the IPCC’s climate model simulations of the sea surface temperature anomalies for that portion of the global oceans. The model data continued to climb contentedly skyward, projecting a blistering warming rate in sea surface temperatures for the “Indian and Pacific Oceans Plus” dataset of about 0.151 deg C per decade. That monumental divergence between models and observations for such a large part of the globe is a significant problem for the hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming—and for the alarmist proponents who believe in that hypothesis—a hypothesis that makes its presence known only in climate models, not in observational data. Anthropogenic Greenhouse Gases are supposed to force sea surface temperature to warm. The model mean of the climate model simulations of sea surface temperatures presented in this post show the response of the models to that forcing, yet the satellite-based sea surface temperature data for 75% of the global oceans show that they are not reacting to the anthropogenic forcing—not at all. One might think the modelers ought to reevaluate the assumptions they’ve made to divine the effects of greenhouse gases on sea surface temperatures, especially when they consider that 70% of the surface of the Earth is covered by ocean. Their assumptions just aren’t working.

FOR THOSE THINKING THE “ATLANTIC OCEAN PLUS” WILL COME TO THE RESCUE

If you’re for some reason hoping the data for the rest of the global oceans, the “Atlantic Ocean Plus” data, will make up the difference, you’re about to be disappointed. As illustrated in Figure 3, the models are showing a warming rate that’s about 50% higher than what has been observed. That’s not too good. Then when you consider the blatantly obvious model failings for the “Indian & Pacific Ocean Plus” subset, you wonder how the climate-model based anthropogenic global warming charade can continue. Yet it does.

Figure 3

A FEW PRELIMINARY NOTES FOR NEWCOMERS TO MODEL-DATA PRESENTATIONS

The Reynolds OI.v2 sea surface temperature anomaly data is available for download from the NOAA NOMADS website and from the KNMI Climate Explorer. NOAA uses the bases years of 1971-2000 for anomalies. But we’re looking at the period of January 1995 to March 2012 and that extends outside of those base years. The base years are not adjustable at the NOAA NOMADS site, but they are adjustable at the KNMI Climate Explorer. I used the data through the KNMI Climate Explorer so that I could change the base years for anomalies to 1995-2011. This helped to reduce the strong seasonal signal that appears in the data of some ocean basins. The North Pacific (0-65N, 100E-90W) sea surface temperature anomaly data from NOAA, for example, has a very strong seasonal component, as shown in Figure 4. Using the base years of 1995-2011, also illustrated, the seasonal component is drastically reduced. And as shown, the trends are basically the same, so minimizing the additional seasonal component makes no difference to the model-data comparisons in this post. (And yes, the sea surface temperature anomalies of the North Pacific have been cooling for the past 17 years.)

Figure 4

The multi-model mean sea surface temperature dataset is identified as TOS (ocean surface temperature) at the KNMI Climate Explorer and is available through its Monthly CMIP3+ scenario runs webpage. If you were to scroll up to Figure 2, you’ll note that there are major year-to-year variations in sea surface temperature anomalies that don’t appear in the multi-model mean data. Those observed major variations are caused by El Niño events (the upward spikes) and La Niña events (the downward ones). There are a few things to keep in mind about the model-mean data and the resulting curves. They represent the average of the climate model simulations at the CMIP3 archive, which was used in the IPCC’s AR4. There are a couple dozen climate models in the archive and some of the models include multiple simulations. For example, GISS presented 9 simulations (ensemble members) for its Model-ER and 5 ensemble members for its Model-EH. Some of the climate models attempted to model the El Niño-Southern Oscillation; others didn’t. The models that tried to simulate ENSO did a poor job and none of them could match the observed frequencies and magnitudes of El Niño and La Niña events. And since each model simulation has a different frequency and magnitude for their ENSO signals, they are smoothed out when the models are averaged. But that’s a good thing. That leaves a signal that is supposed to represent the forced component of the models, which is why we use the multi-model mean.

The reasons I’m presenting the multi-model mean were discussed in more detail in an earlier post Part 2 – Do Observations and Climate Models Confirm Or Contradict The Hypothesis of Anthropogenic Global Warming?, under the heading of CLARIFICATION ON THE USE OF THE MODEL MEAN. Please refer to that discussion.

MODEL-DATA COMPARISONS FOR THE INDIAN AND PACIFIC OCEANS

As shown in Figure 2, there has been no warming of the “Indian & Pacific Ocean Plus” sea surface temperature anomalies since 1995. That doesn’t mean that one of the individual ocean basins has not warmed. See Figure 5. The Indian Ocean (60S-30N, 20E-120E) sea surface temperature anomalies have warmed, except it’s at a rate that’s about 42% of what was simulated by the IPCC’s climate models. And as noted earlier, the North Pacific data shows that it has cooled. So has the South Pacific (60S-0, 120E-70W). Refer to Figures 6 and 7. Think about that for a moment. Not only has the largest ocean on this planet not warmed in agreement with the models, it’s actually cooled over the past 17 years.

Figure 5

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Figure 6

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Figure 7

THE OTHER OCEAN BASIN THAT’S COOLING

The Southern Ocean (90S-60S) is the ocean “basin” that surrounds Antarctica. It has cooled over the 30-year term of the Reynolds OI.v2 dataset. See the graph here from this post. Since January 1995, the rate at which it’s cooling is even stronger. The difference between the rate that it’s cooling and the rate the climate models say it should be warming is 0.14 deg C/decade.

Figure 8

LET’S NOT FORGET THE OTHER OCEAN BASINS THAT WARMED

At the other end of the planet, the Arctic Ocean (65N-90N) has warmed over the past 17 years at a rate that’s about 2.5 times faster than the model simulations. See Figure 9. Surprisingly, we often hear from climate alarmists that the Arctic is warming faster than projected by climate models, with all of the dire consequences of that warming thrown in heighten the risks they perceive. But the doomsayers are actually heralding yet another failing of the climate models. The observations are the target the models are shooting for, and in the Arctic, the models have missed the planet the target’s nailed to.

Figure 9

In the North Atlantic (0-70N, 80W-0), the observations are warming at a rate that’s about 65% of the rate simulated by the models, Figure 10. And as shown in Figure 11, in the South Atlantic (60S-0, 70W-20E) over the past 17 years, the models are doing remarkably well. There, the trend is only about 31% too high. So we’ll give the modelers a “B-” for one basin.

Figure 10

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Figure 11

AND HOW WELL DO THE MODELS SIMULATE HEMISPHERIC AND GLOBAL SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURES?

In the Northern Hemisphere, Figure 12, according to the models, the sea surface temperatures should be warming about 3.4 times faster than has been observed for the past 17 years. The model performance in the Southern Hemisphere is even worse, Figure 13. There, the models show a warming rate that is about 8.5 times higher than the actual warming rate. In total, for the global oceans, the models have projected a warming that’s 5 times higher than the rate the oceans have actually warmed. The model trend isn’t 50% higher, not twice as high, not three times. The models are off by a factor of 5. Written another way, global sea surface temperatures have warmed at a rate over the past 17 years that’s only 20% of the rate projected by the multi-model mean of the climate models presented to the CMIP3 archive for use by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in its 4thAssessment Report published in 2007.

Figure 12

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Figure 13

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Figure 14

CLOSING

For more than a year, in posts here at Climate Observations and in cross posts at WattsUpWithThat, we have presented and discussed numerous ways in which the climate models show no skill at being able to simulate the warming, or lack thereof, of global surface temperatures. Keep in mind global surface temperature is the metric most commonly used to define global warming.

This post was primarily intended to show that 75% of the surface area of the global oceans, the Indian and Pacific Oceans from pole to pole, has not warmed in 17 years. This lack of warming opposes the continued rise in anthropogenic greenhouse gases—which only appear to make the sea surface temperatures warm consistently in climate models. There’s nothing alarming about the rate at which sea surface temperature anomalies have warmed. In fact, the 30 rise in sea surface temperatures can be explained by natural factors. So the only thing that should be sounding any alarms is the lack of skill shown by the climate models.

IF YOU’D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE FAILINGS OF THE IPCC’s CLIMATE MODELS

As illustrated and discussed in If the IPCC was Selling Manmade Global Warming as a Product, Would the FTC Stop their deceptive Ads?, the IPCC’s climate models cannot simulate the rates at which surface temperatures warmed and cooled since 1901 on a global basis, so their failings illustrated in this post are not abnormal.

Additionally, the IPCC claims that only the rise in anthropogenic greenhouse gases can explain the warming over the past 30 years. Satellite-based sea surface temperature disagrees with the IPCC’s claims. Most, if not all, of the 30-year rise in satellite-based global sea surface temperature is shown to be the result of a natural process called the El Niño-Southern Oscillation, or ENSO. This is discussed in detail in If the IPCC was Selling Manmade Global Warming as a Product, Would the FTC Stop their deceptive Ads?, which is available in pdf and Kindle editions. A copy of the introduction, table of contents, and closing in pdf form can be found here.

SOURCE

The modeled and observed sea surface temperature data presented in this post are available through the KNMI Climate Explorer:

http://climexp.knmi.nl/selectfield_obs.cgi?someone@somewhere

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April 29, 2012 8:44 pm

Robbie says:
April 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Haha. Laughable! At least Santer is publishing in peer-reviewed magazines and thus contributing in the scientific discussion.

And how many people have read “Separating Signal and Noise in Atmospheric Temperature Change: The Importance of Timescale” in this particular peer-reviewed magazine [Journal of Geophysical Research (Atmospheres)] and discussed it? Maybe twenty, which is a *huge* number of letters-to-the-editor for a magazine to publish on a single article.
I guarantee you that more people have read the article online since it was linked on WUWT than did so when it came out in hard copy, and there’s been more actual discussion of it in “some blogs” than there has been in academic circles.

rogerknights
April 29, 2012 9:11 pm

jorgekafkazar says:
April 29, 2012 at 4:17 pm
“Titles are vital. They are the epitome of Willis Eschenbach’s ‘elevator speech’ concept, and, unless you wish to preach only at the choir, should be designed to draw the new reader in, not make him scratch his head and wander off in confusion.”

Teaser-titles are also bad because they don’t get correctly indexed by Google, I suspect. Boring, descriptive titles with common keywords are better. Make the teaser-title a subtitle.

markx
April 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Bob Tisdale says: April 29, 2012 at 3:21 pm

“…I simply prepared a blog post that illustrates the sea surface temperature anomalies of 75% of the global ocean surface have not warmed in 17 years…”

A hugely important point in this debate. How important is emphasised by a Skeptical Science page showing (according to Rob Painting of SS) that 93.4% of “global Warming” energy is going into the heat sink that is the oceans.
There is a lovely diagram there putting it all into perspective, showing according to SS that only 2.3% is going into the atmosphere. (if you don’t want to give them the pleasure of your traffic: Oceans 93.4%, Atmosphere 2.3, continents 2.1, glaciers and ice caps 0.9, arctic sea ice 0.8, Greenland ice sheet 0.2, Antarctic ice sheet 0.2) …. And.. I feel there is much to question here given the paucity of measuring stations in some of those regions.)
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Ocean-Heat-Content-And-The-Importance-Of-The-Deep-Ocean.html
If that ocean warming can’t be detected, or such warming detection relies on actually being able to measure a 0.09 C rise over 55 years (ref Willis articles), the planet is looking pretty safe for the immediate future.

L.
April 29, 2012 10:10 pm

Lazyt tenn says:
“Maybe, maybe not. Having ENSO in there with 3 year durations might make this tricky. Not all of the models handle ENSO well.”
What do you mean ‘maybe, maybe not’? Isn’t the science settled..?

markx
April 29, 2012 10:29 pm

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/GW_Components_1024.jpg
There is a lovely diagram there putting it all into perspective, showing according to SS that only 2.3% is going into the atmosphere. (if you don’t want to give them the pleasure of your traffic: Oceans 93.4%, Atmosphere 2.3, continents 2.1, glaciers and ice caps 0.9, arctic sea ice 0.8, Greenland ice sheet 0.2, Antarctic ice sheet 0.2) …. And.. I feel there is much to question here given the paucity of measuring stations in some of those regions.)
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Ocean-Heat-Content-And-The-Importance-Of-The-Deep-Ocean.html

PeteB
April 30, 2012 12:10 am

“Please identify papers that claim “models handle ENSO well.” There are no models that handle ENSO well.”
I don’t think there are any models that can predict when ENSO events will happen into the future (I guess you would have to initialise all the starting conditions at a very detailed level to even have a chance of this) but some of them do show realistic (ish) ENSO behaviour e.g.
http://lightning.sbs.ohio-state.edu/paper_enso_decadal_cmep.pdf
“This study evaluates the interdecadal variability of
ENSO in 21 IPCC AR4 CGCMs. 110 years of the 20C3M
simulations are analyzed using wavelet analysis. The results
show that the state-of-the-art CGCMs display a wide range
of skill in simulating the interdecadal variability of ENSO.
The 21 models can be categorized into three groups. The
first group (8 models) shows an oscillation with a constant
period shorter than the observed ENSO period, sometimes
also with a constant amplitude. The second group (5 models)
does not produce many statistically significant peaks in the
ENSO frequency band, but usually produces one or two
prominent peaks (episodes) at period longer than 6 years.
The third group (8 models) displays significant interdecadal
variability of ENSO in both amplitude and period. Therefore,
we do have a number of CGCMs that can produce the
interdecadal variability of ENSO. Among these models,
only the MPI model reproduces the observed eastward shift
of the westerly anomalies in the low-frequency regime.
[13] These results are very encouraging because detailed
analysis of the third group of models, and in-depth intercomparison
among the three different groups may help us to
understand the physical mechanism for the interdecadal
variability of ENSO.”

richardscourtney
April 30, 2012 12:26 am

Bob Tisdale:
At April 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm you say;
“Yet the IPCC paints the models as being able to perform well on a regional basis. The IPCC in AR4 actually writes that the models do a good job on continental and sub-continental basis. See page 32 (of 84) of Chapter 9 or page 694 of the entire report. It’s under the heading of “9.4.2 Continental and Sub-continental Surface Temperature Change”. It reads:
“The ability of models to simulate many features of the observed temperature changes and variability at continental and sub-continental scales and the detection of anthropogenic effects on each of six continents provides stronger evidence of human infl uence on climate than was available to the TAR. A comparison between a large ensemble of 20th-century simulations of regional temperature changes made with the MMD at PCMDI (using the same simulations for which the global mean temperatures are plotted in Figure 9.5) shows that the spread of the multi-model ensembles encompasses the observed changes in regional temperature changes in almost all sub-continental regions (Figure 9.12; see also FAQ 9.2, Figure 1 and related figures in Chapter 11).”
That’s what the public has been told—those who bothered to read the report.”
YES! AND THE IPCC STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE.
This was the subject of my 1999 paper referenced in my above post at April 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm.
That paper used information provided by the Hadley Centre to assess how the Hadley Centre GCM was developed. And that development was as follows.
1.
The GCM ‘ran hot’ (i.e. it showed much more warming over the 20th century than HadCRUT indicated had occurred in reality).
2.
The modelers postulated that sulphate aerosol from industry had provided cooling which negated some GHG warming in reality.
3.
The aerosol washes out of the atmosphere within days so its cooling effect would be near industrial activity (i.e. the postulated aerosol cooling and industrial activity would have similar spatial distribution).
4.
The magnitude of actual aerosol cooling was not (and still is not) known but this did not matter because its magnitude would have to equal the degree of excess warming indicated by the GCM if the postulate were correct.
5.
Therefore, a degree of aerosol cooling was input to the GCM
(a) with magnitude of cooling which forced the model’s indication of 20th century warming to match the observed warming
and
(b) the spatial distribution of the cooling was input to the GCM to emulate the spatial distribution of industrial activity.
6.
This was a sensible test of the postulate that anthropogenic sulphate aerosol cooling was the reason why the GCM ‘ran hot’; i.e. if the postulate were correct then the addition to the GCM of the postulated aerosol cooling would provide similar spatial distribution of warming to that observed in reality.
7.
But the modified model output indicated a very different pattern of temperature changes over the 20th century than was observed; e.g. the model showed most warming where most cooling was observed, and it showed most cooling where most warming was observed.
8.
This result was inconvenient because it disproved the postulate that aerosol cooling was the cause of the model having ‘ran hot’, and nobody could think of another possible cause of the model having ‘ran hot’.
9.
This finding would have caused scientists to reject the model, but the next IPCC Report was scheduled so the Hadley Centre shouted about the match of global warming indicated by the model and observed global warming over the 20th century. And said the models show “regional variations” (they do, but incorrectly).
10.
But this match with past global temperatures was fixed as an input to the model and was NOT an output of the model.
As I pointed out in my above post (at April 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm), long after my paper about the Hadley GCM, in 2007 Kiehle (see reference in the above post) showed that all other climate models also ‘ran hot’ but by different amounts. And he showed that they each adopt the aerosol fix. But they each adopt a different amount of aerosol cooling to compensate for the different degree of ‘ran hot’ they each display. This need for a unique amount of aerosol cooling in each climate model proves that at most only one (and probably none) of the models emulates the climate system of the real Earth (there is only one Earth).
Richard

P. Solar
April 30, 2012 12:54 am

Good article Bob. The breakdown is quite enlightening.
While one could argue about the magnitude of a rate of surface warming by suggesting heat is being transfered deeper into the ocean bulk, I can’t see how anyone could suggest AGW processes are storing heat in the deep ocean at the same time as the surface is cooling.
At best you could suggest that heat stored in superficial layers during _previous_ periods is still being spread to the depths which have not yet caught up and the current surface trend is cooling due to reduced AGW.
That _reduced_ warming could still be positive on this basis but smaller than the amount being absorbed by the bulk. It could also be negative (ie cooling).
If the smaller ocean basins with less depth and thermal inertia , such as Indian Ocean, are still showing some warming that may be because they are a better indication of short term change or simply regional differences.
Together, this all suggests warming is still positive but decelerating on the inter-decadal time scale.

Kev-in-Uk
April 30, 2012 1:07 am

pouncer says:
April 29, 2012 at 5:22 pm
”Why not simply do what Hansen calls “business as usual”? Some winners, some losers, some rising tides raising “all boats” — in one basin or another — and some tides leaving some boats stranded on the sand bar.”
because to do that the climate alarmists would:
a) have to be honest – i.e. admit they don’t really know what they are talking about
b) admit their models are not performing as required and all predictions are largely useless
c) lose their gravy train funding
and possibly d) get lynched by the general public when the public realise it was a folly all along and could have been avoided by some HONESTY.

P. Solar
April 30, 2012 1:15 am

markx says:
April 29, 2012 at 10:29 pm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/GW_Components_1024.jpg
There is a lovely diagram there putting it all into perspective, showing according to SS that only 2.3% is going into the atmosphere.
===========
Sadly that site is neither scientific nor skeptical (in either sense of the word) . The internet if full of [snip . . kbmod] on all areas of life, the hard part is finding sites that are some use.
The eco-fascism of SS is not what I regard as a useful source of information.

Editor
April 30, 2012 1:55 am

markx: Regarding your April 29, 2012 at 9:50 pm and April 29, 2012 at 10:29 pm comments, the metric being discussed on this thread is sea surface temperature, not ocean heat content as you’ve introduced. Two different topics of discussion. But since you’ve linked Ocean Heat Content posts, let me note: We have discussed the natural factors that cause the rise in Ocean Heat Content. We’ve presented them a number of times at my blog and with the cross posts here at WUWT. These factors include ENSO:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2009/09/05/enso-dominates-nodc-ocean-heat-content-0-700-meters-data/
Shifts in sea level pressure:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/north-pacific-ocean-heat-content-shift-in-the-late-1980s/
And for the North Atlantic, a multidecadal signal like the AMO, in addition to Sea Level Pressure and ENSO:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/north-atlantic-ocean-heat-content-0-700-meters-is-governed-by-natural-variables/
BTW, I have no problem giving SkepticalScience “the pleasure of [my] traffic”. I visit once every one to two weeks just to see what papers they’re regurgitating and what erroneous spin they’re putting on them.

Editor
April 30, 2012 2:23 am

PeteB says: “I don’t think there are any models that can predict when ENSO events will happen into the future (I guess you would have to initialise all the starting conditions at a very detailed level to even have a chance of this) but some of them do show realistic (ish) ENSO behaviour e.g.”
Thanks for linking Lin (2007). I would put that in the category of papers that discuss the failure of all of the models. While some (8 of 24) of the models studied in the paper were able to simulate the frequency of the variations in NINO3 sea surface temperature anomalies, only one was able to reproduce another of the very basic properties of ENSO: the reversal of trade winds. But that one model has the other well-known problem of the double ITCZ.
Yeah, I know. I’m being picky. But NINO3 SST anomalies only represent the impact of ENSO on one metric in one tiny little area of the equatorial Pacific. There’s whole lot more to ENSO than variations of equatorial Pacific sea surface temperature.
Regards

DEEBEE
April 30, 2012 3:05 am

Steven Mosher. I sort of agree with your criticism of the “fallacy” of applying Global trends to regional trends. BUt if the models are based on any semblance of physics, I would expect them to work well regionally. Unless the regional physics is overwhelmingly different.
IMO your critique is of the nit-picky kinds.

Nick Stokes
April 30, 2012 4:00 am

DEEBEE says:April 30, 2012 at 3:05 am
“Steven Mosher. I sort of agree with your criticism of the “fallacy” of applying Global trends to regional trends. BUt if the models are based on any semblance of physics, I would expect them to work well regionally. Unless the regional physics is overwhelmingly different.
IMO your critique is of the nit-picky kinds.”

No, it’s not nit-picky. Two important things:
1. Variation of measurements for regions is higher. You have to wait longer to get a statistically significant result.
2. Many physical processes are oscillatory on various scales, in space and time. Models can hope to get the nature of the oscillation right, but will always struggle with phase. This is true of any kind of physics. You can predict accurately the frequency of a flute, but not the instantaneous pressure. So with ENSO, say, a model may produce realistic oscillations, but they won’t get the timing right. Same with waves like SAM.
This has little effect on long term climate evolution.

David A
April 30, 2012 4:46 am

Steve Mosher says,
“The models do a fair job at global metrics. that is, they are better than a naive forecast.”
“Bottomline. The models need improvement. And don’t try to apply the SNR derived from a global metric to regional scale statistical problems. Knowing you have a problem and working to fix it, trumps misusing math and not knowing what you are doing.”
——————————————————————————————————
Sometimes Mr Mosher comments become almost troll like. In this case they cross that line and he is clearly being a troll; ignoring the clearly put summary of the model mean being off by a factor of five on a global basis, and then claiming the author does not know what he is doing. Also in his usuall fashion Mr Mosher makes one comment, then unprofessionally runs away, rearely if ever engaging in reasoned debate.

David A
April 30, 2012 4:55 am

Nick Stokes says: April 30, 2012 at 4:00 am
“No, it’s not nit-picky. Two important things:
1. Variation of measurements for regions is higher. You have to wait longer to get a statistically significant result.”
—————————————-
if the ensemble mean globally is off by a factor of five, do not expect that you will ever get the regional areas correct. As another poster commented, this does not prevent the IPCC from claiming they do regions well. The same fact applies to your other point about timing. Seventeen years of global failure for ONE earth, how is that for timing?

Andrew
April 30, 2012 5:59 am

Love the title!

Robbie
April 30, 2012 6:10 am

Thanks for all the reactions: Especially from Mr. Tisdale.
I will make one comment more:
“By the way, the not-peer-reviewed argument is worn out and tired—and has no bearing on this post. Find something new to use.”
That is what Mr. Tisdale said and I disagree (read below).
“I guarantee you that more people have read the article online since it was linked on WUWT than did so when it came out in hard copy, and there’s been more actual discussion of it in “some blogs” than there has been in academic circles.”
That is what Bill Tuttle said and he could be right about that (,BUT…).
When are we going to read this in a reference list of a peer-reviewed article:
– Tisdale B (2012) Tisdale on the “17 year itch” – Yes, there is a Santer clause, Wattsupwiththatt
It looks like: Never! Because this is not how science works. If the skeptical bloggers on Wattsupwiththat want to be taken seriously they should publish their rebuttals in journals and not in blogs. It amazes me that a lot of people, especially the bloggers here, simply don’t understand that.
Svensmark 2007, Xia 2012, Büntgen et al 2011, Spencer & Braswell 2007/2010/2011, Lindzen & Choi 2009/2010, Lüdecke et al 2011 etc etc. Plenty of skeptical examples in the peer-reviewed world. CO2 Science is an excellent example with many peer-reviewed article reviews and what about the immense MWP-project on CO2 Science with a lot of peer-reviewed articles there!
So Mr. Tisdale: If my “not peer-reviewed” argument would be worn out: Then why are a lot of serious scientists still publishing in peer-reviewed journals? Yes of course: They want their scientific research to be taken seriously in the scientific world.

Paul Vaughan
April 30, 2012 6:33 am

Nick Stokes (April 30, 2012 at 4:00 am) wrote:
“Two important things:
1. Variation of measurements for regions is higher. You have to wait longer to get a statistically significant result.
2. Many physical processes are oscillatory on various scales, in space and time. Models can hope to get the nature of the oscillation right, but will always struggle with phase. This is true of any kind of physics. You can predict accurately the frequency of a flute, but not the instantaneous pressure. So with ENSO, say, a model may produce realistic oscillations, but they won’t get the timing right. Same with waves like SAM.”

What about Earth Orientation Parameters? You can’t make the same argument because of coupling via the solid Earth. Do the climate models reproduce EOP? That’s the only question that matters. For how long will this core issue be ignored?

Paul Vaughan
April 30, 2012 6:57 am

Bob, I chuckled out loud as each big X appeared on the screen as I scrolled through your – as usual – informative graphs. I never used to read Mosher comments, but then I noticed a lot of people seem influenced by him, so I started following some of his comments. From what I’ve seen so far I conclude that he’s politically motivated rather than driven by a visceral interest in understanding nature. Here he completely misses the point that the models can’t possibly be right globally since they’re wrong and severely wrong for such large portions of the globe (there’s not enough of the globe left to paradoxically leverage the bullseye back around the fantasy-shoot target-arrow). A more important question: Can the models reproduce EOP? I want this addressed by the mainstream. Their models have no credibility WHATSOEVER in the meantime. A side-question (for the mainstream): The way you arrive at the window-dressing wiggle-pattern on your model trend-lines is meaningless & goofy, so why not just gaussian-smooth to reveal more honestly just how ‘complicated’ your thinking really is? I continue to find mainstream climate fantasy models disgusting all the way around as they convey SO LITTLE respect for nature. I admit that Bob lost me when he first started running posts on model output, as I was thinking, “why bother looking at garbage that will make us sick?” …but this post has a legitimate purpose …and the string of great laughs at Bob’s incisive marking (X) was indeed very welcome and very healthy.

davidmhoffer
April 30, 2012 7:21 am

Stokes and Mosher;
How do the models work? Do they not work by taking input parameters on a grid cell by grid cell basis, applying modeled forcing to them, and then determining the result? Are the grid cells not then aggregated together to arrive at regional and global predictions?
Are the models grid cells aggregated up, or global trends broken down? If the former, then your arguments are hollow. If the latter, then there is little value in breaking them down into regions since they don’t get global right in the first place.

Kristoffer Haldrup
April 30, 2012 7:27 am

It is amazing how you, Bob Tisdale, consistently choose not to report error bars on your trends.Why is that?

davidmhoffer
April 30, 2012 7:35 am

Robbie;
So Mr. Tisdale: If my “not peer-reviewed” argument would be worn out: Then why are a lot of serious scientists still publishing in peer-reviewed journals?>>>>
Academics publish in journals. Doesn’t make them right. Applied scientists file patents. Are you suggesting that the scientific achievements evident in patents are questionable if they are not accompanied by journal articles to back them up?
If you suppose that the only way to publish serious science is through the journal process, then, on behalf of Bell, Edison, Franklin, the Write Bros, Diesel, Dolby, and SO many others, I mock you with an LOL.

April 30, 2012 7:36 am

Robbie says:
“If the skeptical bloggers on Wattsupwiththat want to be taken seriously they should publish their rebuttals in journals and not in blogs.”
And how do they do that? Robbie does not understand how climate pal review works: the job of journals is to keep skeptical scientists [the only honest kind of scientist] out of publication. For a [true] example of a physicist trying to correct an obvious mistake in a journal publication, see here.
In the climate peer eview field, true peer review takes place on sites like WUWT, not in one-sided journals where Mann can get published in a month, errors and all, while an esteemed giant in the field like Prof Richard Lindzen must wait a year or more. Lesser known skeptical scientists are routinely rejected out of hand by biased referees running interference.
Robbie’s misunderstanding of “how science works” is based on his naive belief that climate pal review is ‘science’, when in fact it is the primary method of generating federal grants. If it was science, there would be full transparency of all data, methods, code and methodologies used. But as we see, there is no transparency. So how can experiments and hypotheses be replicated and falsified? Fourteen years after MBH98, Mann has still refused to disclose all his code, data and methods. Whatever it is, that is not science.
Robbie doesn’t understand that climate peer review is just a racket based on a monopoly. If you’re not promoting the “Team” narrative, good luck getting published. For a thoroughly researched account of the censorship of skeptical papers, read A.W. Montford’s The Hockey Stick Illusion, available on the right sidebar.

Kev-in-Uk
April 30, 2012 8:14 am

richardscourtney says:
April 30, 2012 at 12:26 am
So, in a nutshell – you’re suggesting/saying that what has actually happened is kind of what every real scientist ‘knows’ is likely to have happened, and that is that it has all been one great big fudgeball of modeling? Worse, one set of fudges have been subsequently used and abused by a following model, etc, etc.

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