A Matter of Some Gravity

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

A couple of apparently related theories have been making the rounds lately. One is by Nikolov and Zeller (N&Z), expounded here and replied to here on WUWT. The other is by Hans Jelbring, discussed at Tallblokes Talkshop. As I understand their theories, they say that the combination of gravity plus an atmosphere without greenhouse gases (GHGs) is capable of doing what the greenhouse effect does—raise the earth at least 30°C above what we might call the “theoretical Stefan-Boltzmann (S-B) temperature.”

So what is the S-B temperature, theoretical or otherwise?

A curious fact is that almost everything around us is continually radiating energy in the infrared frequencies. You, me, the trees, the ocean, clouds, ice, all the common stuff gives off infrared radiation. That’s how night-vision goggles work, they let you see in the infrared. Here’s another oddity. Ice, despite being brilliant white because it reflects slmost all visible light, absorbs infrared very well (absorptivity > 0.90). It turns out that most things absorb (and thus emit) infrared quite well, including the ocean, and plants (see Note 3 below). Because of this, the planet is often treated as a “blackbody” for IR, a perfect absorber and a perfect emitter of infrared radiation. The error introduced in that way is small for first-cut calculations.

The Stefan-Boltzmann equation specifies how much radiation is emitted at a given temperature. It states that the radiation increases much faster than the temperature. It turns out that radiation is proportional to absolute temperature to the fourth power. The equation, for those math inclined, is

Radiation = Emissivity times SBconstant times Temperature^4

where the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is a tiny number, 0.0000000567 (5.67E-8). For a blackbody, emissivity = 1.

This “fourth-power” dependence means that if you double the absolute temperature (measured in kelvins), you get sixteen (2^4) times the radiation (measured in watts per square metre, “W/m2”). We can also look at it the other way, that temperature varies as the fourth root of radiation. That means if we double the radiation, the temperature only goes up by about 20% (2^0.25)

Let me call the “theoretical S-B temperature” the temperature that an evenly heated stationary blackbody planet in outer space would have for a given level of incoming radiation in W/m2. It is “theoretical”, because a real, revolving airless planet getting heated by a sun  with the same average radiation will be cooler than that theoretical S-B temperature. We might imagine that there are thousands of mini-suns in a sphere around the planet, so the surface heating is perfectly even.

Figure 1. Planet lit by multiple suns. Image Source.

On average day and night over the planetary surface, the Earth receives about 240 W/m2 of energy from the sun. The theoretical S-B temperature for this amount of radiation (if it were evenly distributed) is about -18°C, well below freezing. But instead of being frozen, the planet is at about +14°C or so. That’s about thirty degrees above the theoretical S-B temperature. So why isn’t the planet a block of ice?

Let me take a short detour on the way to answering that question in order to introduce the concept of the “elevator speech” to those unfamiliar with the idea.

The “elevator speech” is simply a distillation of an idea down to its very basics. It is how I would explain my idea to you if I only had the length of an elevator ride to explain it. As such it has two extremely important functions:

1. It forces me to clarify my own ideas on whatever I’m discussing. I can’t get into handwaving and hyperbole, I can’t be unclear about what I’m claiming, if I only have a few sentences to work with.

2. It allows me to clearly communicate those ideas to others.

In recent discussions on the subject, I have been asking for that kind of “elevator speech” distillation of Jelbring’s or Nikolov’s ideas, so that a) I can see if whoever is explaining the theory really understands what they are saying and, if so, then b) so that I can gain an understanding of the ideas of Jelbring or Nikolov to see if I am missing something important.

Let me give you an example to show what I mean. Here’s an elevator speech about the greenhouse effect:

The poorly-named “greenhouse effect” works as follows:

• The surface of the earth emits energy in the form of thermal longwave radiation.

• Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases (GHGs) in the atmosphere.

• In turn, some of that absorbed energy is radiated by the atmosphere back to the surface.

• As a result of absorbing that energy from the atmosphere, the surface is warmer than it would be in the absence of the GHGs.

 OK, that’s my elevator speech about why the Earth is not a block of ice. Note that it is not just saying what is happening. It is saying how it is happening as well.

I have asked, over and over, on various threads, for people who understand either the N&Z theory or the Jelbring theory, to give me the equivalent elevator speech regarding either or both of those theories. I have gotten nothing scientific so far. Oh, there’s the usual handwaving, vague claims of things like ‘the extra heat at the surface, is just borrowed by the work due to gravity, from the higher up regions of the atmosphere‘ with no mechanism for the “borrowing”, that kind of empty statement. But nothing with any meat, nothing with any substance, nothing with any explanatory value or scientific content.

So to begin with, let me renew my call for the elevator speech on either theory. Both of them make my head hurt, I can’t really follow their vague descriptions. So … is anyone who understands either theory willing to step forward and explain it in four or five sentences?

But that’s not really why I’m writing this. I’m writing this because of the claims of the promoters of the two theories. They say that somehow a combination of gravity and a transparent, GHG-free atmosphere can conspire to push the temperature of a planet well above the theoretical S-B temperature, to a condition similar to that of the Earth.

I hold that with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere, neither the hypothetical “N&Z effect” nor the “Jelbring effect” can possibly raise the planetary temperature above the theoretical S-B temperature. But I also make a much more general claim. I hold it can be proven that there is no possible mechanism involving gravity and the atmosphere that can raise the temperature of a planet with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere above the theoretical S-B temperature.

The proof is by contradiction. This is a proof where you assume that the theorem is right, and then show that if it is right it leads to an impossible situation, so it cannot possibly be right.

So let us assume that we have the airless perfectly evenly heated blackbody planet that I spoke of above, evenly surrounded by a sphere of mini-suns. The temperature of this theoretical planet is, of course, the theoretical S-B temperature.

Now suppose we add an atmosphere to the planet, a transparent GHG-free atmosphere. If the theories of N&K and Jelbring are correct, the temperature of the planet will rise.

But when the temperature of a perfect blackbody planet rises … the surface radiation of that planet must rise as well.

And because the atmosphere is transparent, this means that the planet is radiating to space more energy than it receives. This is an obvious violation of conservation of energy, so any theories proposing such a warming must be incorrect.

Q.E.D.

Now, I’m happy for folks to comment on this proof, or to give us their elevator speech about the Jelbring or the N&Z hypothesis. I’m not happy to be abused for my supposed stupidity, nor attacked for my views, nor pilloried for claimed errors of commission and omission. People are already way too passionate about this stuff. Roger Tattersall, the author of the blog “Tallbloke’s Talkshop”, has banned Joel Shore for saying that the N&Z hypothesis violates conservation of energy. Roger’s exact words to Joel were:

… you’re not posting here unless and until you apologise to Nikolov and Zeller for spreading misinformation about conservation of energy in their theory all over the blogosphere and failing to correct it.

Now, I have done the very same thing that Joel did. I’ve said around the web that the N&Z theory violates conservation of energy. So I went to the Talkshop and asked, even implored, Roger not to do such a foolish and anti-scientific thing as banning someone for their scientific views. Since I hold the same views and I committed the same thought-crimes, it was more than theoretical to me. Roger has remained obdurate, however, so I am no longer able to post there in good conscience. Roger Tallbloke has been a gentleman throughout, as is his style, and I hated to leave. But I did what Joel did, I too said N&Z violated conservation of energy, so in solidarity and fairness I’m not posting at the Talkshop anymore.

And more to the point, even if I hadn’t done what Joel did, my practice is to never post at or even visit sites like RealClimate, Tamino’s, and now Tallbloke’s Talkshop, places that ban and censor scientific views. I don’t want to be responsible for their page views counter to go up by even one. Banning and censorship are anathema to me, and I protest them in the only way I can. I leave them behind to discuss their ideas in their now cleansed, peaceful, sanitized, and intellectually sterile echo chamber, free from those pesky contrary views … and I invite others to vote with their feet as well.

But I digress, my point is that passions are running high on this topic, so let’s see if we can keep the discussion at least relatively chill …

TO CONCLUDE: I’m interested in people who can either show that my proof is wrong, or who will give us your elevator speech about the science underlying either N&K or Jelbring’s theory. No new theories need apply, we have enough for this post. And no long complicated explanations, please. I have boiled the greenhouse effect down to four sentences. See if you can match that regarding the N&K or the Jelbring effect.

w.

NOTE 1: Here’s the thing about a planet with a transparent atmosphere. There is only one object that can radiate to space, the surface. As a result, it is constrained to emit the exact amount of radiation it absorbs. So there are no gravity/atmospheric phenomena that can change that. It cannot emit more or less than what it absorbs while staying at the same temperature, conservation of energy ensures that. This means that while the temperature can be lower than the theoretical S-B temperature, as is the case with the moon, it cannot be more than the theoretical S-B temperature. To do that it would have to radiate more than it is receiving, and that breaks the conservation of energy.

Once you have GHGs in the atmosphere, of course, some of the surface radiation can get absorbed in the atmosphere. In that case, the surface radiation is no longer constrained, and the surface is free to take up a higher temperature while the system as a whole emits the same amount of radiation to space that it absorbs.

NOTE 2: An atmosphere, even a GHG-free atmosphere, can reduce the cooling due to uneven insolation. The hottest possible average temperature for a given average level of radiation (W/m2) occurs when the heating is uniform in both time and space. If the total surface radiation remains the same (as it must with a transparent atmosphere), any variations in temperature from that uniform state will lower the average temperature. Variations include day/night temperature differences, and equator/polar differences. Since any atmosphere can reduce the size of e.g. day/night temperature swings, even a transparent GHG-free atmosphere will reduce the amount of cooling caused by the temperature swings. See here for further discussion.

But what such an atmosphere cannot do is raise the temperature beyond the theoretical maximum average temperature for that given level of incoming radiation. That’s against the law … of conservation of energy.

NOTE 3: My bible for many things climatish, including the emissivity (which is equal to the absorptivity) of common substances, is Geiger’s The Climate Near The Ground, first published sometime around the fifties when people still measured things instead of modeling them. He gives the following figures for IR emissivity at 9 to 12 microns:

Water, 0.96

Fresh snow, 0.99

Dry sand, 0.95

Wet sand, 0.96

Forest, deciduous, 0.95

Forest, conifer, 0.97

Leaves Corn, Beans, 0.94

and so on down to things like:

Mouse fur, 0.94

Glass, 0.94

You can see why the error from considering the earth as a blackbody in the IR is quite small.

I must admit, though, that I do greatly enjoy the idea of some boffin at midnight in his laboratory measuring the emissivity of common substances when he hears the snap of the mousetrap he set earlier, and he thinks, hmmm …

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michael hart
January 17, 2012 3:13 pm

Bart,
I’d been wondering why nobody had mentioned ‘evaporation’ of the atmosphere. Considering a thermodynamic equilibrium, might we expect the gases to be lost to deep space? Is the atmosphere only really retained by kinetic limitations as to how fast it can escape?

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:20 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:10 pm
“Thanks, Bart. I’m not clear what the “configuration of the surface energy state” means to you.”
Planckian morphology and uniform outward distribution pertaining to an infinitely smooth surface. The steady state energy and spatial distribution could easily be significantly different from these.

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:25 pm

michael hart says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm
“Is the atmosphere only really retained by kinetic limitations as to how fast it can escape?”
Yes, it was one of those forehead slapping moments. There is nothing in this thought experiment which prevents the atmospheric molecules from achieving escape velocity.

Daniel Kozub
January 17, 2012 3:27 pm

Solution #2 for Willis–
You may lose your hippie card for this. You basically described the planet as a hydrogen bomb.
So with that in mind, the planet is made out of uranium. The atmosphere is liquid tritium (IR transparent). GRAVITY and the inability to irradiate IR radiation keeps the tritium at absolute zero. It conductively cools the surface of the planet to near zero K. The surface irradiates inward (less than half of the absorbed energy from the 1 million suns) until it reaches criticality.

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:29 pm

So, let me update my elevator one last time:
A) Radiation enters the system
B) it is absorbed by the surface, which fluoresces in the IR
C) heat builds up at the interface between the surface and the atmosphere until its apparent temperature suggests an exceedance of the incoming radiance based on the SB relationship
D) in fact, though, the distribution of surface energy states is non-Planckian and/or not omnidirectional so the entire integrated spatially integrated energy flux is actually not as great as expected
E) the heat from the interface conducts through the atmosphere, establishing a temperature gradient as must exist in a spherically distributed atmosphere
F) the transferred heat accumulates in the atmosphere until:
1) highly energetic emissions are stimulated, which balances the energy fluxes all around in the same way GHGs would in the standard “greenhouse” theory
OR
2) the heat accumulates until the atmosphere achieves escape velocity and vanishes.
G) if greenhouse gasses which can radiate in the IR are added to the atmosphere, it will result in a net cooler atmosphere than otherwise would be the case, because there is now a lower energy outlet for heat to escape.

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:31 pm

“…integrated spatially integrated…”
Strike out the first “integrated”.

Daniel Kozub
January 17, 2012 3:39 pm

Bart, you are correct about the atmosphere escaping for this hypothetical planet as the energy builds. Since the premise includes having an atmosphere, gravity must keep it from escaping. PV=nRT If the pressure increases and the volume and mass remain constant, the temperature increases.
And that’s #3 Willis.

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:41 pm

This is a real “Eureka!” moment for me. The so-called “greenhouse gases” do not heat the atmosphere, they cool it. Now that is really something. How could so many smart people be so wrong? Eh, well, it happens. I’ve seen it happen before, and no doubt, I will again.

Bart
January 17, 2012 3:43 pm

Daniel Kozub says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:39 pm
“Since the premise includes having an atmosphere, gravity must keep it from escaping.”
Which means the gravity has to be so powerful that it will hold it until it reaches a point where it can discharge all the accumulated heat.

January 17, 2012 3:53 pm

[snip – sorry, I’m not going to tolerate that, feel free to rephrase and re-submit sans the accusations – Anthony]

January 17, 2012 4:03 pm

[snip – sorry, I’m not going to tolerate that, feel free to rephrase and re-submit sans the accusations – Anthony]
Couldn’t you just snip the last sentence and repost it. I didn’t retain a copy ?
Anyway, it was far less offensive than the things he has said to and about me.
REPLY: I’m sorry, but I didn’t save a copy either. It is the risk you run. Feel free to resubmit. – Anthony

Daniel Kozub
January 17, 2012 4:04 pm

Way to go Bart! Yes, GHGs cool the atmosphere. Otherwise, boom! And they heat non-GHGs through convection. When they reach a high-enough energy state, they start cooling too. And they can also heat those GHGs some more which then cool some more.
The atmosphere is a massively negatively-coupled system. It was about 10 years ago that I surmised that the planet won’t blow up. That’s when I stopped getting my global warming information from wikipedia.

David
January 17, 2012 4:15 pm

Elevator speech for Willis’s parameters, with a zero gas atmosphere, verses a non GHG atmosphere.
At its most basic only two things can effect the heat content of any system in a radiative balance. Either a change in the input, or a change in the “residence time” of some aspect of those energies within the system. (David’s Law) ++NOTE
The addition of a non GHG increases the residence time of the specific heat at the surface, thereby increasing the specific heat above the S-B equation.
There done. Now to add a few further basics for a longer elevator ride.
++ note, adding an atmosphere changes the system to a different system with increased volume requiring more energy to have an equal T, which is naturally attained over time when the atmosphere molecules reach their specific heat with the surface per the second law, which here , just like with radiation, is net flow from higher to lower.
A zero atmosphere surface cools strictly through radiation, which is very fast. The specific heat of the BB surface reaches a certain level determined by the S-B law, at which point the radiating temperature, radiates the heat away to match the insolation.
The existence of an atmosphere adds a second method of cooling the surface. That method is conduction.
Now the surface has two methods of cooling. These methods are not additive, (they do not accelerate the cooling) They are subtractive. (Now less of the specific heat is radiating from the surface, as some of the specific heat is now conducting.)
The dry adiabatic lapse rate is g / Cp, where g is gravity and Cp is the specific heat of the atmosphere The lapse rate may be constant, but it is a constant VARIATION, which appears to be predicated on g and Cp. (IE, the greater the gravity in an otherwise equal atmospheric content of non GHG, the higher the specific heat content of the atmosphere) What does “specific heat emanate from? If specific heat, which is “heat capacity per unit mass of a material”, then the more mass per volume, the greater specific heat per volume. Therefore an atmosphere of denser mass, (caused by either more atmosphere same gravity, or more gravity same atmosphere) will have a higher specific heat content then a thinner atmosphere. The lapse rate will be the same in all atmospheres, just the starting point or temperature will be different. The individual non GHG molecules do not vibrate at a higher specific heat, but due to the fact that there is more per M2 the T is raised. This is just the opposite of some molecules at the top of the atmosphere which, subject to very high energy SWR, vibrate at a very high T, but the actual air T is low because there are so few per M2.
So, with greater bottom of atmosphere residence time of conducted specific heat, (both down dwelling and upwelling), due to increased mass per volume as a result of more atmosphere or gravity, the flow from the surface is delayed due to the decreased gradient between the surface and the atmosphere, plus there is backflow, or “back conduction” to the surface, thereby increasing the specific heat above the S-B equation.
Conduction, just like radiation from a GHG flows both ways. Some of this conducted heat flows back to the surface, and slows the flow of heat from the surface, raising the temperature of the surface above the S-B law. And the densest air being at the surface (due to gravity) that air insulates the surface for longest, thus raising the surface temperature, effectively delaying the loss of energy to space so that energy builds up in the atmosphere until a new higher temperature equilibrium is attained.
Both this and GHG do the same thing, increase the residence time of energy in the earth, ocean atmosphere system allowing additional accumulation of energy relative to S-B and the earths albedo. Either both are breaches of the Laws of Thermodynmics or neither are.

hotrod (larry L)
January 17, 2012 4:20 pm

Bart says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:25 pm
michael hart says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm
“Is the atmosphere only really retained by kinetic limitations as to how fast it can escape?”
Yes, it was one of those forehead slapping moments. There is nothing in this thought experiment which prevents the atmospheric molecules from achieving escape velocity.

Yes even at relatively cool temperatures, there is a small probability that a few atoms will through energy transfer of collisions achieve escape velocity. In doing so they carry energy out of the system and are a form of energy transfer.
As the mathematician in the movie Jurassic park said, “life will find a way” in the thought experiment Willis proposes “physics will find a way” to lose the excess energy. IR radiation is not the only way to lose energy, there is a full spectrum of electromagnetic radiation ranging from long wave radio up to gamma ray frequencies that allow atoms/molecules to lose energy.
There are also kinetic transfers of energy, and one of those paths will be increased evaporation of the atmosphere as random atoms achieve escape velocity.
Energy can be radiated as visible light and radio waved due to static charge build ups in a mixing atmosphere, or by florescent glow as our atmosphere does on the night side as oxygen and nitrogen molecules emit energy as light that was absorbed during the day. In a dusty atmosphere you also have static charge accumulation due to dust impacts (ever see the St. Elmo’s fire from a helicopter rotor when filmed by a night vision camera?). Any electrical charge motion will result in currents and magnetic field fluctuations which will radio in the radio spectrum. There are many many ways for a planet to lose energy without a single photon of IR being emitted.

Bart
January 17, 2012 4:22 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:00 pm
“At equilibrium, as you stated, the temperature is indeed uniform.”
Not possible. With no heat sink in the upper atmosphere (hence no adiabatic lapse rate), the temperature profile must satisfy the steady state heat equation, which says the Laplacian has to be zero. The solution of this is
T = A + B/r
T is temperature, r is the radius, and A and B are constants. At infinity, T must be zero, hence
T = B/r

Bart
January 17, 2012 4:28 pm

Daniel Kozub says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm
“Way to go Bart! Yes, GHGs cool the atmosphere. Otherwise, boom!”
I feel like I just emerged from a tunnel into the light. Yes, boom! It’s all so obvious. What a fiasco. I knew it was bad, but this?!

January 17, 2012 4:29 pm

I think Willis has inadvertently described a model that if complied with cannot be used to invalidate his proposition.
i) In order for there to be an energy imbalance requiring GHGs to correct it Willis proposes a static equilibrium between surface and atmosphere with a zero energy exchange between the two at equilibrium. That is highly unrealistic given the kinetic energy present in the air and on the surface. In reality there will be a substantial dynamic interchange. If values are given for that interchange then the apparent energy imbalance disappears without needing GHGs at all.
ii) Willis proposes a uniform surface and multiple suns but the consequence of that uniformity is an absence of atmospheric circulation such that from conduction over time the non GHG atmosphere will heat up indefinitely until it is blown off into space. In reality a non GHG atmosphere on a rotating uneven sphere under a single sun will have a hugely powerful atmospheric circulation between the day and night sides as the night side sucks energy out of the air by conduction as fast as the day side releases energy to the air by conduction.
So, regrettably, it is not possible to prepare an elevator speech in response to Willis’s proposition whilst complying with the parameters he has set.

dr.bill
January 17, 2012 4:29 pm

re Joel Shore, January 17, 2012 at 11:39 am :
Joel: It says a lot about you that you couldn’t ignore even that minor bit of levity, and the comment you linked to does nothing but confirm my original premise.
Having an argument with the world and trying to shout them all down simply doesn’t advance your cause, and neither does an appeal to your training and credentials. In the past week and a half, I’ve interviewed six people in an attempt to fill two vacant positions in my Department. They all had PhD’s, and looked great on paper, but four of them weren’t fit to put in front of an undergraduate Mechanics class, so being credentialed doesn’t always mean much.
A couple of years ago, in a comment I posted here, I inadvertently came off sounding almost as patronizing as you generally do, and was quickly put in my place (by the inestimable Smokey, as it happens). He was right to do so. My credentials might be real, and I might know what I’m talking about on some subjects, but in every group of people of any kind, half of them are in the bottom half, and just yelling at people and insulting them isn’t going to persuade them that you’re in the other half.
There’s no shortage of idiots posting all kinds of nonsense all over the Net. We all eventually figure out who they are, and then just ignore them. If you truly want people to read what you write, instead of skipping over anything with your name at the top, you might think of not trying to emulate the screaming idiots.
You’re giving scientists (and Physicists in particular) a bad name.
/dr.bill

January 17, 2012 4:32 pm

David says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Well said David,
Very similar to my analysis.

Anything is possible
January 17, 2012 4:45 pm

illis Eschenbach says:
January 17, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Ned Nikolov says:
January 16, 2012 at 7:29 pm
“In any case, I fear that your “Part 1″ may be of little use. I know that a GHG-free atmosphere can reduce the losses that would occur in its absence, we have the moon as an excellent example.
I’m not particularly interested in further discussion of the greenhouse effect. I want to know how your effect would heat the surface to well above the theoretical S-B temperature without greenhouse gases.
Which means that I have to wait for “Part 2″ for you to reveal the secret … any chance you could post Part 2 first?”
__________________________________________________________________________
Willis, with respect, part 1 (which i have just had the pleasure of reading) is absolutely critical to the N+Z theory, because it proposes that the traditional method of calculating the theoretical S-B temperature is incorrect. That changes everything. IMHO, it is a “must read”, and doesn’t mention the “g”-word, once!.

January 17, 2012 4:46 pm

“At equilibrium, as you stated, the temperature is indeed uniform. I was totally wrong to state it followed the dry adiabatic lapse rate.”
Depends on whether there is an external energy supply.
No energy supply and the column will equalise to the same temperature throughout but with more molecules at the base compared to the top due to gravity. So there will be greater energy per unit volume at the bottom as compared to the top but the same temperature throughout.
Then add the energy supply and since there are more molecules per unit volume at the bottom they will absorb proportionately more of the incoming energy per unit volume and become warmer than the molecules where the energy per unit volume is lower.
That is what creates the temperature gradient as far as I can tell.
It is back to what I tried to tell you before. The denser gases convert a higher proportion of the radiation flowing through them into kinetic energy for a higher temperature and the denser the gas the longer that energy remains in kinetic form. Whilst in kinetic form the transmission of energy through the system is slower than it would have been if it had simply hit a bare surface and been converted immediately into outgoing IR.
The slower the transmiission through the system the higher the equilibrium temperature of the system.
Exactly as for the radiative greenhouse effect but caused by mass/density/pressure and so involving the entire mass of the atmosphere including non GHGs.

Bart
January 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:39 pm
“Argon can absorb and radiate high energy only. At normal temperatures, it does not radiate at all in the IR. Additionally, at normal temperatures there’s not enough energy for it to emit high-energy radiation.”
That’s the problem, Willis. In your thought experiment, you have no outlet for radiation of the heat conducted to the atmosphere. As a result, your atmosphere heats, and heats, and heats.
Eventually, if the atmosphere hangs around, all that stored up energy is going to find a way out, until balance is achieved. Until that balance is achieved, there is no equilibrium, so SB doesn’t hold. You cannot be radiating out more than you get in without experiencing cooling, but the energy that would normally be going into radiation is going into heating up the atmosphere through the conductive interface.
This is a much more exotic situation than you realized when you came up with the thought experiment. Your normal intuition based on what happens on Earth does not apply.

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