Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I’ve been considering the effect that temperature swings have on the average temperature of a planet. It comes up regarding the question of why the moon is so much colder than you’d expect. The albedo (reflectivity) of the moon is less than that of the Earth. You can see the difference in albedo in Figure 1. There are lots of parts of the Earth that are white from clouds, snow, and ice. But the moon is mostly gray. As a result, the Earth’s albedo is about 0.30, while the Moon’s albedo is only about 0.11. So the moon should be absorbing more energy than the Earth. And as a result, the surface of the moon should be just below the freezing temperature of water. But it’s not, it’s much colder.
Figure 1. Lunar surface temperature observations from the Apollo 15 mission. Red and yellow-green short horizontal bars on the left show the theoretical (red) and actual (yellow-green) lunar average temperatures. The violet and blue horizontal bars on the right show the theoretical Stefan-Boltzmann temperature of the Earth with no atmosphere (violet), and an approximation of how much such an Earth’s temperature would be lowered by a ± 50°C swing caused by the rotation of the Earth (light blue). Sunset temperature fluctuations omitted for clarity. DATA SOURCE
Like the Earth, averaged over its whole surface the moon receives about 342 watts per square metre (W/m2) of solar energy. We’re the same average distance from the sun, after all. The Earth reflects 30% of that back into space (albedo of 0.30), leaving about 240 W/m2. The moon, with a lower albedo, reflects less and absorbs more energy, about 304 W/m2.
And since the moon is in thermal equilibrium, it must radiate the same amount it receives from the sun, ~ 304 W/m2.
There is something called the “Stefan Boltzmann equation” (which I’ll call the “S-B equation” or simply “S-B”) that relates temperature (in kelvins) to thermal radiation (in watts per square metre). It says that radiation is proportional to the fourth power of the temperature.
Given that the moon must be radiating about 304 W/m2 of energy to space to balance the incoming energy, the corresponding blackbody lunar temperature given by the S-B equation is about half a degree Celsius. It is shown in Figure 1 by the short horizontal red line. This shows that theoretically the moon should be just below freezing.
But the measured actual average temperature of the lunar surface shown in Figure 1 is minus 77°C, way below freezing, as shown by the short horizontal yellow-green line …
So what’s going on? Does this mean that the S-B equation is incorrect, or that it doesn’t apply to the moon?
The key to the puzzle is that the average temperature doesn’t matter. It only matters that the average radiation is 304 W/m2. That is the absolute requirement set by thermodynamics—the average radiation emitted by the moon must equal the radiation the moon receives from the sun, 304 W/m2.
But the radiation is proportional to the fourth power of temperature. This means when the temperature is high, there is a whole lot more radiation, but when it is low, the reduction in radiation is not as great. As a result, if there are temperature swings, they always make the surface radiate more energy. As a result of radiating more energy, the surface temperature cools. So in an equilibrium situation like the moon, where the amount of emitted radiation is fixed, temperature swings always lower the average surface temperature.
For confirmation, in Figure 1 above, if we first convert the moment-by-moment lunar surface temperatures to the corresponding amounts of radiation and then average them, the average is 313 W/m2. This is only trivially different from the 304 W/m2 we got from the first-principles calculation involving the incoming sunlight and the lunar albedo. And while this precise an agreement is somewhat coincidental (given that our data is from one single lunar location), it certainly explains the large difference between simplistic theory and actual observations.
So there is no contradiction at all between the lunar temperature and the S-B calculation. The average temperature is lowered by the swings, while the average radiation stays the same. The actual lunar temperature pattern is one of the many possible temperature variations that could give the same average radiation, 304 W/m2.
Now, here’s an oddity. The low average lunar temperature is a consequence of the size of the temperature swings. The bigger the temperature swings, the lower the average temperature. If the moon rotated faster, the swings would be smaller, and the average temperature would be warmer. If there were no swings in temperature at all and the lunar surface were somehow evenly warmed all over, the moon would be just barely below freezing. In fact, anything that reduces the variations in temperature would raise the average temperature of the moon.
One thing that could reduce the swings would be if the moon had an atmosphere, even if that atmosphere had no greenhouse gases (“GHGs”) and was perfectly transparent to infrared. In general, one effect of even a perfectly transparent atmosphere is that it transports energy from where it is warm to where it is cold. Of course, this reduces the temperature swings and differences. And that in turn would slightly warm the moon.
A second way that even a perfectly transparent GHG-free atmosphere would warm the moon is that the atmosphere adds thermal mass to the system. Because the atmosphere needs to be heated and cooled as well as the surface, this will also reduce the temperature swings, and again will slightly warm the surface in consequence. It’s not a lot of thermal mass, however, and only the lowest part has a significant diurnal temperature fluctuation. Finally, the specific heat of the atmosphere is only about a quarter that of the water. As a result of this combination of factors, this is a fairly minor effect.
Now, I want to stop here and make a very important point. These last two phenomena mean that the moon with a perfectly transparent GHG-free atmosphere would be warmer than the moon without such an atmosphere. But a transparent atmosphere could never raise the moon’s temperature above the S-B blackbody temperature of half a degree Celsius.
The proof of this is trivially simple, and is done by contradiction. Suppose a perfectly transparent atmosphere could raise the average temperature of the moon above the blackbody temperature, which is the temperature at which it emits 304 W/m2.
But the lunar surface is the only thing that can emit energy in the system, because the atmosphere is transparent and has no GHGs. So if the surface were warmer than the S-B theoretical temperature, the surface would be emitting more than 304 W/m2 to space, while only absorbing 304 W/m2, and that would make it into a perpetual motion machine. Q.E.D.
So while a perfectly transparent atmosphere with no GHGs can reduce the amount of cooling that results from temperature swings, it cannot do more than reduce the cooling. There is a physical limit to how much it can warm the planet. At a maximum, if all the temperature swings were perfectly evened out, we can only get back to S-B temperature, not above it. This means that for example, a transparent atmosphere could not be responsible for the Earth’s current temperature, because the Earth’s temperature is well above the S-B theoretical temperature of ~ -18°C.
Having gotten that far, I wanted to consider what the temperature swings of the Earth might be like without an atmosphere. Basic calculations show that with the current albedo, the Earth with no atmosphere would be at a blackbody temperature of 240 W/m2 ≈ -18°C. But how much would the rotation cool the planet?
Unfortunately, the moon rotates so slowly that it is not a good analogue to the Earth. There is one bit of lunar information we can use, however. This is how fast the moon cools after dark. In that case the moon and the Earth without atmosphere would be roughly equivalent, both simply radiating to outer space. At lunar sunset, the moon’s surface temperature shown in Figure 1 is about -60°C. Over the next 30 hours, it drops steadily at a rate of about 4°C per hour. At that point the temperature is about -180°C. From there it only cools slightly for the next two weeks, because the radiation is so low. For example, at its coolest the lunar surface is at about -191°C, and at that point it is radiating a whopping two and a half watts per square metre … and as a result the radiative cooling is very, very slow.
So … for a back of the envelope calculation, we might estimate that the Earth would cool at about the lunar rate of 4°C per hour for 12 hours. During that time, it would drop by about 50°C (90°F). During the day, it might warm about the same above the average. So, we might figure that the temperature swings on the Earth without an atmosphere might be on the order of ± 50°C. (As we would expect, actual temperature swings on Earth are much smaller, with a maximum of about ± 20-25 °C, usually in the desert regions.)
How much would this ±50° swing with no atmosphere cool the planet?
Thanks to a bit of nice math from Dr. Robert Brown (here), we know that if dT is the size of the swing in temperature above and below the average, and T is the temperature of the center of the swing, the radiation varies by 1 + 6 * (dT/T)^2. With some more math (see the appendix), this would indicate that if the amount of solar energy hitting the planet is 240 W/m2 (≈ -18°C) and the swings were ± 50°C, the average temperature would be – 33°C. Some of the warming from that chilly temperature is from the atmosphere itself, and some is from the greenhouse effect.
This in turn indicates another curiosity. I’ve always assumed that the warming from the GHGs was due solely to the direct warming effects of the radiation. But a characteristic of the greenhouse radiation (downwelling longwave radiation, also called DLR) is that it is there both day and night, and from equator to poles. Oh, there are certainly differences in radiation from different locations and times. But overall, one of the big effects of the greenhouse radiation is that it greatly reduces the temperature swings because it provides extra energy in the times and places where the solar energy is not present or is greatly reduced.
This means that the greenhouse effect warms the earth in two ways—directly, and also indirectly by reducing the temperature swings. That’s news to me, and it reminds me that the best thing about studying the climate is that there is always more for me to learn.
Finally, as the planetary system warms, each additional degree of warming comes at a greater and greater cost in terms of the energy needed to warm the planet that one degree.
Part of this effect is because the cooling radiation is rising as the fourth power of the temperature. Part of the effect is because Murphy never sleeps, so that just like with your car engine, parasitic losses (losses of sensible and latent heat from the surface) go up faster than the increase in driving energy. And lastly, there are a number of homeostatic mechanisms in the natural climate system that work together to keep the earth from overheating.
These thermostatic mechanisms include, among others,
• the daily timing and number of tropical thunderstorms.
• the fact that clouds warm the Earth in the winter and cool it in the summer.
• the El Niño/La Niña ocean energy release mechanism.
These work together with other such mechanisms to maintain the whole system stable to within about half a degree per century. This is a variation in temperature of less than 0.2%. Note that doesn’t mean less than two percent. The global average temperature has changed less than two tenths of a percent in a century, an amazing stability for such an incredibly complex system ruled by something as ethereal as clouds and water vapor … I can only ascribe that temperature stability to the existence of such multiple, overlapping, redundant thermostatic mechanisms.
As a result, while the greenhouse effect has done the heavy lifting to get the planet up to its current temperature, at the present equilibrium condition the effect of variations in forcing is counterbalanced by changes in albedo and cloud composition and energy throughput, with very little resulting change in temperature.
Best to all, full moon tonight, crisp and crystalline, I’m going outside for some moon-viewing.
O beautiful full moon! Circling the pond all night even to the end Matsuo Basho, 1644-1694
w.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Joe says:
January 9, 2012 at 9:21 am
I said nothing about the gas having no insulating properties, just that it contain no GHGs. There are a number of gases that fit the bill, so I’m not talking about any “fictitious material”. So my contradiction is built on a real basis.
w.
“gravity doesn’t add energy to the atmosphere on an ongoing basis.”
It doesn’t need to.
It just slows down the flow of solar energy through the system by increasing density at the surface to produce more opportunities for molecular collisions before the energy is released back to space.
The result is an accumulation of solar energy within the system at the surface so that a higher surface temperature can be achieved.
PaulR says:
January 9, 2012 at 11:03 am
A. C. Osborn says:
January 9, 2012 at 8:40 am
Isn’t it great how the GHGs prevent such wide swings in temperature as experienced by the moon, except of course in deserts, where it doesn’t do a very good job.
I wonder why that is?
Because the most powerful green house gas is water vapor, and the relative absence of water and water vapor is exactly what makes a desert.
______
Indeed, the absence of water vapor allows for the wide swings in temperature in a desert, but try taking out all the GH gases, such as CO2, CH4, and N2O above a desert and see what happens. Despite the belief of some, you would not get much “graviational” or “ideal gas law” warming from the nitrogen and oxygen left. The temperature drop would in fact be similar (though not identical) to what the Moon experiences during a Lunar eclipse when the Earth’s shadow passes over the sunlit moon and during the course of the eclipse the temperature drops 100K. Nitrogen and Oxygen won’t stop the LW at all.
As an example of Fourth Root of the Mean Fourth Powers averaging, the maximum and minimum temperatures on the graph of Figure 1 appear to be about + 90 and -190 which have a simple average of -50 degrees C. These are equivalent to absolute temperatures of about 363 and 83 degrees K. If these values are then raised to the fourth power we have 17,363,069,361 and 47,458,321 having an average value of 8,705,263,841 and the fourth root of this is about 305 degrees K or about 32 degrees C.
This is the type of value that an average energy flow S-B characteristic temperature would return. We do not have to use the S-B constant to convert these values to energy because that constant would be removed by division when the average is converted back to temperature.
“Here a nice article showing influence of heat capacity, applied to moon.
You can get average temperatures from 169K to 291K.
http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/06/03/lunar-madness-and-physics-basics/
The real problem is that averaging temperatures over time and/or space has no meaning. As you say, averaging T^4 and later take the fourth root gives you something more coherent. ”
The mistake is that cooler something is, the more work can be done.
Simply if surface can only be heat to say 123 C from solar energy then
if surface is 120 C then less energy is absorb compare to radiated.
So a 10 C surface can absorb far more energy than a 120 C surface.
Something with large heat capacity could take days of sunlight to reach 10 C.
Something with low heat capacity could takes hours to get to 120 C.
Are there any forbidden to mention wavelengths?…just thinking about, as IR and visible light are not the whole spectrum.
izen says:
January 9, 2012 at 3:36 am
“But as the point is made above, that atmospheric effect of energy distribution can never raise the temperature ABOVE the S-B limit.”
This misconeption seems to be repeated time and again. It is bass ackwards. The temperature can go above the S-B “limit” (of which, there isn’t one), the radiated energy cannot in equilibrium. Kirchoff’s Law:
Alan D McIntire says:
January 9, 2012 at 6:30 am
“There are different averages here. Bigger temp swings do not change average radiation, but radiation is not proportional to temperature, it’s proportional to the 4th power of temperature.”
hi alan. i know you’re trying to be some kind of helpful, but radiation is not temperature; averaging radiation does not average temperature. measuring radiation is not the same as measuring temperature (it’s a proxy, mmk?) furthermore, the word average MEANS what it does and not something whimsical that changes with the consensual breezes.
all of which really substantiates my main point that if one can’t use the language = words that by definition have definitions – you won’t be doing logic- and reason will exceed the grasp of gobbledegook.
if you want to have temperature and radiation mean the same thing- lose one of the words.
but the distinguishing characteristic of my rant is that logic can not be done without the cognitive tools- and temperature is not heat, it’s not radiation, it’s not average radiation, it’s not a function of gravity, either.
i mean- this is the first thread i’ve even seen where somebody noticed that submerging a heat source in a conductive fluid *maybe kinda sorta might* work to refrigerate it instead of heat it or insulate it.
.
“honorable says:
January 9, 2012 at 5:31 am
If daylight on earth lasted 14.5 days, instead of 12 hours, there would be huge temperature swings on earth that I would like someone to calculate.
Similarly, if daylight on the moon lasted 12 hours instead of 14.5 days, temperature swings on the moon would be much smaller.
The different lengths of a day on the moon and on the earth probably account for more of the temperature swings than the presence or not of an atmosphere. How much more? Could someone tell me?”
It’s difficult to give simple answer, but I like challenges.
The earth does have a long nite- longer than the Moon’s.
Every year the region of earth within the arctic circle enters
a 6 month long nite.
DirkH says:
January 9, 2012 at 5:00 am
Willis talks about the effect that the T^4 term has when the temperature varies drastically, as in the case of the moon, compared to the effect it has when the temperature varies less, as in the case of the Earth. In the case of the drastic variation, a lower average temperature is necessary to allow the planetary body to radiate enough. It’s a mathematical thing.
Oh, it’s “a mathematical thing”… Really. So, what’s new or interesting about this? Anyone who ever saw Boltzmann’s formula or knows what the fourth-power means, understands that the loss of heat by radiation quickly increases with the increase of temperature. So what? Why are we being treated as preschoolers here?
I don’t agree with Darko — popularizing science, even doubting the established science, is good and useful. Amateurs made more breakthroughs in science than professors and doctors ever dreamed of. But this particular amateur doesn’t explain anything new, complex or interesting.
P.S. Couple of people here propose a weird argument about “dead man under a blanket.” Be it known to them that plants are protected from freezing by blankets, though, last time I checked, plants had no internal sources of heat (unless you burn them). Thermal insulation is just that, an insulation — it keeps cold out even if there is no heater inside. Being a Siberian, I remember how much longer after sunset the warmer air is contained in a log cabin covered by deep snow (without any fire or people heating it yet), compared to any structure open to elements.
I think you should just have gone with: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Your statement willis:
“But a transparent atmosphere could never raise the moon’s temperature above the S-B blackbody temperature of half a degree Celsius.” need to be clarified.
This is why:
A transparent atmosphere would be heated by convection with moon surface. The warm gas will raise due to density decrease. And heat the entire atmosphere by convection.
And what will a transparent moon atmosphere be cooled by?
Only by convection with the same moon surface. The problem is that a cooling atmosphere from below get stable. That is an inversion. A inversion will prevent warm air to decend to the surface and be cooled by surface radiation. Next day will the same surface heat a little bit warmer atmosphere than the day before.
It will not take long until this ideal moon atmosphere would reach a average temperature nearly as warm as the moon highest temperature. How close depend on the atmospheres heat capacity and length of day and night.
This only because the surface heat and cool an atmosphere, which have to obey the gas laws.
When You mention the moon temperature do You mean the moon surface temperature or the temperature of a fictive moon atmosphere?
Do I have to remind You that we do measure air=atmosphere temperature on earth. Not surface temperatures. They are very often close to each other but that is mainly due to convection=wind.
So in an equilibrium situation like the moon, where the amount of emitted radiation is fixed, temperature swings always lower the average surface temperature.
You betcha, as I showed slightly more quantitatively as the reposted topic of another thread. One that is actually almost directly applicable to the moon — much more so than the Earth.
The greater the temperature inhomogeneity over the surface, the greater the cooling, because T^4 goes up with T faster than it goes down with T. It’s really that simple.
rgb
“The result is an accumulation of solar energy within the system at the surface so that a higher surface temperature can be achieved.”
stephen – which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?
stephen – which is hotter?
stephen – btw- how thick is this surface? how much depth can you pull out of this superficiality? how profound can shallow be?
sure would be nice if people used words – which have definitions – so everything isn’t confabulated into one long loud munch painting.
a surface has no thickness, gravity has no temperature, pressure has no volume and sounds without definitions are grunts, not words.
So … for a back of the envelope calculation, we might estimate that the Earth would cool at about the lunar rate of 4°C per hour for 12 hours.
Sorry, I’m reading and commenting as I go. This is consistent with observations in the very dry, windless desert. To quote the Wikipedia article on Deserts, in hot deserts the daytime peak temperature can be 45C and the minimum temperature right before dawn can be 0C or even cooler. That is dead on your estimate, allowing for the fact that even in the desert there is stratospheric water vapor acting as a GHG to block a little of the heat — along with CO_2 of course.
Your estimate is of enormous consequence, in other words. It suggests that there is almost no greenhouse effect active over hot, dry deserts. Not CO_2 GH. Not H_2O GH. Not CH4 GH. They radiatively cool almost as fast as the dark side of the moon!
Almost no is not the same as no, but this points out the enormous importance of water vapor as a GHG. I’m guessing that it forms a critical aspect of glacial epoch stability — when all that water is bound up in glaciers and it is really cold all the time near the poles, I’m betting that it is always dry all of the time in all of the upper latitudes. Dry air just doesn’t trap a lot of heat at night, no matter what the hell the CO_2 levels are.
I’ve suggested — repeatedly — that direct measurements of the rates of radiative heat loss in the middle of geographically large deserts would provide us with more or less a direct measurement of the actual heat trapping of the greenhouse effect in the absence of water vapor. Your back of the envelope calculation shows why it is so important. We’re talking about a tiny effect compared to raw vacuum, not a big effect, and that includes the cooling of the thermal ballast of the lower atmosphere as well.
rgb
“I do not think that Lunar gravity is sufficient to hold an atmosphere. Increasing rotational speed only makes it worse. Apart from that the above thoughts will work (?).”
I have strong bias towards not changing the Moon [or Mars]. Because i think the Moon as it
is better in many ways than earth. But with that said.
If want “milder climate” on the Moon, you could use water.
First water is very abundant in our solar system, even compared to our water world Earth.
There easily 1000 times more water than we have in earth oceans, which is “accessible”.
The Moon itself is very water poor- compared to Earth. As is Mars. But the Moon does
have concentrated quantities of water in it’s permanently shadowed polar craters. This
amount is on order of billions of tonnes. Which is tiny compare to our amount of water.
A billion tonnes is 1 cubic kilometer- so that amount is fair size lake. Or each square kilometer
of deep ocean has about 3 cubic km of water and earth has 510 million square miles and 70%
of area is deep ocean.
So, anyhow to answer question 10 meter depth of water is roughly equal our atmosphere. So
one could pools of waters 10 meter deep and these wouldn’t varying much in day and nite cycles.
Let’s consider two superconducting spheres, one with a radius of one and the second with a radius of two. They are the exact same distance from the sun and they have the identical average solar insolation per square meter of 100 W per square meter and they radiate at 100 W per square meter. Their surface temperatures are identical.
Now let’s place the smaller sphere inside the larger sphere. The outer sphere 4π(2R)^2 has 4 times the area of the inner sphere. As a result the outer sphere has no change in insolation or radiation. The inner sphere now has 400 w per square meter insolation and correspondingly higher temperature.
A planets atmosphere acts in effect like like an outer conducting sphere, The bigger the atmosphere the higher the internal spheres temperature. It is just that simple.
Overall, good article, but you are off by a factor of two in twelve hour cooling of the middle of a hot desert. It often is 45C, around 4C/hour. Not a lot of greenhouse effect when there isn’t water vapor to help.
The rest of the article is dead on the money. The earth almost certainly self-organizes to increase the efficiency of heat loss as it warms by increasing the (surface integrated) delta T. This adds to its overall stability (provides negative feedback) — within limits.
rgb
honorable says:
January 9, 2012 at 11:14 am
@cal: I get your point but poles might not be such good examples to the extent that when it is day, it is the equivalent of a permanent sunrise (i.e. the sun does not do so much warming). What would happen at the equator if days lasted 14.5 days followed by an equally long night. I would not be surprised if temperature would rise to 60 degrees, but that is a pure guess.
Finally, your interesting pole argument does not clarify what would happen on the moon if days lasted 12 hours instead of 29 times longer.
Your second point is easier to answer than the first where, as I tried to explain, the enormous winds that would inevitably sweep round the globe would be difficult to model. However it would be pretty safe to say that the presence of the atmosphere would dramatically reduce the temperature excursion compared to the moon.
In the second case one can more easily estimate the effect since the moon is a much simpler system. One can see from the graphs that Willis has provided that the temperature drops precipitously once the day ends. Nothing changes in this respect if the day is only 12 earth hours long. However, after 12 hours, just before it can reach its current absolute mimimum it would start to warm again. It is difficult to judge exactly how low the temperature would reach before it started to rise again but my guess is that it would only be about 20 degrees more than it is with a 14 day night. The warming cycle is more difficult to guess since the shape of the upward curve on the temperature plot is due to the fact that the sun is oblique for several days whereas in the 12 hours scenario it would only be a couple of hours so one cannot just read the rate of rise off the graph. My guess would be that it would reach a temperature at least as high as the current moon surface after 3 or 4 days and then decline. But I could be wrong. One could argue that at peak sun the surface has to radiate as much as it radiates at peak sun on 14 earth day cycle therefore the temperature has to be the same. The reason I have gone for the slightly lower temperature is that the surface would start warmer so would be radiating more in the early hours. There is also a thermal capacity issue which I can only guess at. If I am right this would make the total excursion between -160 to +60. Still much larger than the earth.
Still not quite sure why you are asking the question!
If we give the moon an atmosphere that does not have greenhouse gas then the atmosphere will have zero radiation or emissions and the moons surface will radiate all the energy received from the sun at the top of atmosphere into space.The atmosphere contains some of the received energy from the sun but it cannot radiate it to space, my point is that we can’t ignore the non-radiation of the atmosphere in calculating the amount of radiation sent out into space.The energy radiated at the planet surface would be some average of the emissions at the surface and that at the atmosphere which would be lower than the amount received at the top of the atmosphere until an equilibrium at a higher temperature was reached.
Willis, I too appreciate the choice of Title. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a favorite SF and Political novel.
In that it is a story about:
Ecology, Politics, Economic Freedom, Manners,
And a growing collection of people, organized by computer, attempting to overthrow the “Authority”, it is a story that well suits the “Battle in support of CAGW Skepticism.”
It has a place on my “Read many times” bookshelf. TANSTAAFL!
KevinUK says:
…
“One of the main points of interest that I’ve previously not thought about (until this thread) is the idea that the swings in the Moon’s surface temperature as it rotates would be less extreme if the Moon rotated faster?
…
Another (frivilous) thought. If it’s so cold on the dark side of the Moon, does that mean if we colonised the Moon that we could could have self sustaining super-conductors when on the dark side and that we could replenish our energy supplies.”
Any rotation of planet in terms of heat can thought of as means of transporting heat to the night side of planet. So superconductor transporting electricity or heat to the nite side is similar.
As for the nite side of the Moon. It’s very easy to warm a building in a vacuum. It is also very easy to keep a building cool. So lunatics aren’t going wasting a huge amount energy, that earthlings do on heating or cooling their homes. With LED lighting there would not be much energy use to keep the lights on.
So, we left with industrial processes that need a lot energy. One could go to location on the Moon and get constant solar energy [high elevation] at lunar poles.
One also can use nuclear energy on the Moon. The Moon is perfectly safe place to store radioactive waste. And there is little reason to have much in terms of containment, a complete nuclear meltdown is not important other than wrecking the facility.
ferd berple says:
January 9, 2012 at 1:23 am
Willis Eschenbach says:
January 9, 2012 at 12:55 am
ferd, the N2 is the most unlike the others because the line strength is many, many orders of magnitude weaker than that of the others.
Perhaps you misread the reference? From what I see, N2 line strength is 10-28, CO2 is 10-23, which is 5 orders of magnitude. However, N2 has 10 orders of magnitude wider spectrum (600 cm-1 versus 50 cm-1). In addition, there are 4 orders of magnitude more N2 in the atmosphere than CO2. So, on this basis it is hard to see that N2 absorbs/radiates significantly less than CO2.
No Fred, Willis is right CO2 is 10 orders of magnitude greater than N2 as I have pointed out here several times. Your mistake is to compare one rather weak CO2 band with the solitary band for N2. In fact there are many CO2 bands, between 4 and 5 microns there are ~21,000 lines with the strongest band at ~10-18, by contrast there are ~100 lines in the same range due to N2, peaking around 10-28. There are ~1000 lines due to H2O in the same range up to 10-21. That wavelength range isn’t particularly relevant to GHE however because it’s not in the Earth’s emission band, between 12 and 18 microns CO2 has ~20,000 lines peaking around 10-19, H2O has ~500 lines up to 10-21, N2 has no lines at all!
In contrast to CO2, H2O line strength is 10-19 which if 4 orders of magnitude stronger than CO2. As well it has a much, much wider spectrum than CO2. The absorption strength and spectra of water so overwhelms CO2 as to make it CO2 a joke when you consider the amount of H2O in the atmosphere as compared to CO2.
The joke appears to be on you.
From gnomish on January 9, 2012 at 11:55 am:
In a federally funded study of the effects of climate change on the quality of feathers and lead emissions (per the funding request), from a fixed height of 6 feet, 100% of survey participants agreed that a pound of lead dropped on their bare heads was heavier than a pound of feathers. From 2 meters, 100% found a kilogram of lead to be heavier than a kilogram of feathers.
This study remains unpublished due to incompleteness of the American/metric equivalence portion, as all participants refused to be hit with slugs of lead.
Interesting post. Incidentally I know the moon orbits and keeps one face to the earth. But interestingly the idea that it has an axial rotation as opposed to just an orbit is widespread, even to a report on the BBC a few days ago. Maybe I should not be surprised by the BBC, but otherwise it’s a common mistake even in scientific discussion.