It's Not About Feedback

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

The current climate paradigm believed by most scientists in the field can be likened to the movement of balls on a pool table.

Figure 1. Pool balls on a level table. Response is directly proportional to applied force (double the force, double the distance). There are no “preferred” positions—every position on the table is equally attainable and probable.

The current climate paradigm is as linear and as mechanistic as that pool table. At its heart is the belief that the controlling equation for the future evolution of the climate is:

Forcing Change of 3.7 watts/metre^2 = 3°C Surface Temperature Change

This can also be written as:

∆T = λ ∆Q

where ∆Q is the change in forcing, ∆T is the change in temperature, and lambda (λ) is the climate sensitivity of 3°C / 3.7 w/m2 = 0.8 degrees C for each additional watt/m2 of forcing.

Everything else is claimed to average out, leaving only that relationship. The ratio between the imposed forcing and the supposed resulting temperature change is assumed to be a constant, called the “climate sensitivity”. There is much discussion as to the value of the climate sensitivity, which swirls around whether there is net positive or negative feedback from things like clouds and water vapor. According to the prevailing theory and equation, if the climate sensitivity is high, a small forcing change is said to cause a larger temperature change, and vice versa.

Me, I don’t believe that equation one bit. I discussed problems with the equation in “The Cold Equations“. For me, the idea that surface air temperature slavishly follows forcing goes against everything I know about complex natural flow systems. I cannot think of any complex natural flow system which is linear in that manner with respect to its inputs. I find it completely astounding that people actually believe that the global climate system, with all of its intricate feedbacks and forcings and resonances and chaotic nature, is that linearly simple. But that is the current paradigm for the climate, a completely linear system.

I am neither a climate sceptic, nor an AGW believer, nor an agnostic on the subject. Instead, I am a climate heretic. I think that the dominant climate paradigm is completely incorrect. I hold that there is no level pool table. I say that there is no constant “climate sensitivity”. Instead, there are preferred states. I say, and have discussed elsewhere, that the temperature of the Earth is kept within a fairly narrow range through the action of a variety of natural homeostatic mechanisms.

So what is a homeostatic mechanism when it’s at home?

The concept of “homeostat” is a more general version of the word “thermostat”. A thermostat keeps temperature the same. A homeostatic mechanism keeps something the same. A familiar version is the “cruise control” of a car, which keeps the car’s speed the same. Per Wikipedia, homeostasis is “the property of a system, either open or closed, that regulates its internal environment and tends to maintain a stable, constant condition.” Not a bad definition. It is a natural governor which regulates some aspect of the system.

The first thing to understand about climate homeostasis is that it has nothing to do with feedback. This is because in general the controlling mechanism involves a regime shift, rather than a variation in some feedback value. The current furore about the exact level of feedback in the system, while interesting, is not directly relevant, as variations in feedback are not a feature of the control mechanism.

To see why the control mechanism regulating the earth’s temperature does not involve feedback, here is the evolution of the day and night in the tropical ocean. The tropical ocean is where the majority of the sun’s energy enters the huge heat engine we call the climate. So naturally, it is also where the major homeostatic mechanism are located.

At dawn, the atmosphere is stratified, with the coolest air nearest the surface. The nocturnal overturning of the ocean is coming to an end. The sun is free to heat the ocean. The air near the surface eddies randomly.

Figure 2. Average conditions over the tropical ocean shortly after dawn. 

 As the sun continues to heat the ocean, around ten or eleven o’clock in the morning there is a sudden regime shift. A new circulation pattern replaces the random eddying. As soon as a critical temperature/humidity threshold is passed, local circulation cells spring up everywhere. These cells transport water vapor upwards to the local lifting condensation level. At that level, the water vapor condenses into clouds as shown in Figure 3.

Figure 3.  Average conditions over the tropical ocean when cumulus threshold is passed. 

Note that this area-wide shift to an organized circulation pattern is not a change in feedback. It has nothing to do with feedback. It is a self-organized emergent phenomenon. It is threshold-based, meaning that it emerges spontaneously when a certain threshold is passed. In the “wet” deep tropics there’s plenty of water vapor, so the major variable in the threshold is the temperature.

Under the new late-morning cumulus circulation regime, much less surface warming goes on. Part of the sunlight is reflected back to space, so less energy makes it into the system to begin with. Then the increasing wind due to the cumulus-based circulation pattern increases the evaporation, reducing the surface warming even more by moving latent energy up to the lifting condensation level.

Note that the system is self-controlling. If the ocean is a bit warmer, the new circulation regime starts earlier in the morning, and cuts down the total daily warming. On the other hand, if the ocean is cooler than usual, clear morning skies last later into the day, allowing increased warming. The system is regulated by the time of onset of the regime change.

Let’s stop at this point in our examination of the tropical day and consider the idea of “climate sensitivity”. The solar forcing is constantly increasing as the sun rises higher in the sky. In the morning before the onset of cumulus circulation, the sun comes through the clear atmosphere and rapidly warms the surface. So the thermal response is large, and the climate sensitivity is high.

After the onset of the cumulus regime, on the other hand, much of the sunlight is reflected back to space. Less sunlight remains to warm the ocean. In addition to reduced sunlight there is enhanced evaporative cooling. Compared to the morning, the climate sensitivity is much lower. The heating of the surface slows down.

So here we have two situations with very different climate sensitivities. In the early morning, climate sensitivity is high, and the temperature rises quickly with the increasing solar insolation. In the late morning, a regime change occurs to a situation with much lower climate sensitivity. Adding extra solar energy doesn’t raise the temperature anywhere near as fast as it did earlier.

So climate sensitivity varies … which means, of course, that the constant “temperature sensitivity” that they claim exists must be an average temperature sensitivity. Fair enough, let’s take a look at how that works.

Suppose the early morning regime and the late morning regime are the same length, maybe three hours each. In that case we take the simple mathematical average. But here’s the problem. As noted above, when it’s warm the cumulus circulation starts up earlier than usual. More hours of cumulus means lower sensitivity.

On the other hand, when the ocean is cooler than usual, the clear skies prevail for more of the morning. As a result, the average climate sensitivity rises.

In other words, in the all-important tropical region, climate sensitivity is not a constant in any sense. Instead, it varies inversely with temperature.

Moving along through the day, at some point in the afternoon there is a good chance that the cumulus circulation pattern is not enough to stop the continued surface temperature increase. When the temperature exceeds a certain higher threshold, another complete regime shift takes place. Some of the innocent cumulus clouds suddenly mutate and grow rapidly into towering monsters. The regime shift involves the spontaneous generation of those magical, independently mobile heat engines called thunderstorms.

Thunderstorms are dual-fuel heat engines. They run on low-density air, air that rises, condenses out the moisture and rewarms the air, which rises deep into the troposphere.

Figure 4. Afternoon thunderstorm circulation over the tropical ocean.

There are a couple of ways to get low density air. One is to heat the air. This is how a thunderstorm gets started, as a strong cumulus cloud. The sun plus GHG radiation combine to heat the surface, warming the air. The low density air rises. When that gets strong enough, a thunderstorm starts to form.

Once the thunderstorm is started, the second fuel is added to the fire — water vapor. Counter-intuitively, the more water vapor there is in the air, the lighter it becomes. The thunderstorm generates strong winds around its base. Evaporation is proportional to wind speed, so this greatly increases the local evaporation.

This, of course, makes the air lighter, and makes the air rise faster, which makes the thunderstorm stronger, which in turn increases the wind speed around the thunderstorm base, which increases the evaporation even more … a thunderstorm is a regenerative system like a fire where part of the energy is used to run a bellows to make the fire burn even hotter.

This gives thunderstorms a unique ability that, as far as I know, is not represented in any of the climate models. It is capable of driving the surface temperature well below the temperature that was needed to get it going. It can run on into the evening, and at times well into the night, on its combination of thermal and evaporation energy sources.

Thunderstorms can be thought of as local leakages that transport heat rapidly from the surface to the upper atmosphere. They cool the surface in a host of ways, utilizing a combination of cold water, shade, wind, spray, evaporation, and cold air.

And just like the onset of the cumulus circulation, the onset of thunderstorms occurs earlier on days when it is warmer, and it occurs later (and sometimes not at all) on days that are cooler than usual.

So again, we see that there is no way to assign an average climate sensitivity. The warmer it gets, the less each additional watt per metre actually warms the surface.

Even what I describe above doesn’t exhaust the variety of self-organization to decrease incoming sunlight and move more energy aloft. If the day continues to warm, the thunderstorms self-assemble into long, long rows of thunderstorms called “squall lines” (not illustrated). Between these long lines of thunderstorms there are equally long areas of clear descending air. Instead of the regime of individual “doughnut-shaped” circulation around each thunderstorm and cumulus cloud, it has all been replaced by long cylinders of air which sink in the valleys between the serried rows of thunderstorms, and rise up through their centers. This increases the rate at which the energy can be moved from the surface and converted into work.

Like all of the regime shifts, the change from individual tropical thunderstorms to squall lines is temperature dependent and threshold based. It occurs at the warmest temperatures.

Finally, once all of the fireworks are over, first the cumulus and then the thunderstorms decay and dissipate. A final and again different regime ensues. The main feature of this regime is that during this time, the ocean radiates about the amount of the energy that it absorbed during all of the previously described regimes.

Figure 5. Conditions prevailing after the night-time dissipation of the daytime clouds.

During the nighttime, the surface is still receiving energy from the GHGs. This has the effect of delaying the onset of oceanic overturning, and of reducing the rate of cooling. However, because there are no clouds, the ocean can radiate to space more freely. In addition, the overturning of the ocean constantly brings new water to the surface, to radiate and to cool. This increases the heat transfer across the interface.

As with the previous thresholds, the timing of this final transition is temperature dependent. Once a critical threshold is passed, oceanic overturning kicks in. Stratification is replaced by circulation, bringing new water to radiate, cool, and sink. In this way, heat is removed, not just from the surface as during the day, but from the body of the upper layer of the ocean.

And as mentioned above, by dawn the combined effect of clear skies and oceanic overturning has lost all of the heat of the previous day, and the cycle starts over again.

So let me recap.

1. There are a series of temperature thresholds in the tropics, each of which when crossed initiates a completely new circulation regime. In order of increasing temperature, these are the thresholds for cumulus formation, thunderstorm formation, and squall line formation.

2. The time of crossing of each temperature threshold depends (on average) on whether the local area is warmer or cooler than usual. As a result, the entire system is strongly homeostatic, tending to maintain the temperature within a certain range.

3. Feedback does not play any significant part in this temperature control system. Nor do small changes in the forcings. The system adjusts by means of the timing. The various regime change occur either earlier or later in the day (or not at all), to maintain the temperature.

4. In each of these separate regimes, the climate sensitivity  is quite different.

5. The climate sensitivity for the tropical ocean varies inversely with the temperature.

My conclusion from all of this is that the climate, like other flow systems far from equilibrium, contains homeostatic mechanisms. One effect of these mechanisms is that the tropical temperature is constrained to remain within a fairly narrow range.

And that’s why I describe myself as a climate heretic. I think the earth has a thermostat, one that is not represented in any of the current generation of climate models. I don’t think that climate is linear. I think that climate sensitivity is not a constant at all, but is a function of temperature. And to return to the title of the post, I think that the debate should not be about feedback at all, it should be a debate about the types and the effects of the various natural homeostatic mechanisms.

And all of those are definitely heresies to the latest IPCC Council of Nicean Climate …

My best to all,

w.

The climate data they don't want you to find — free, to your inbox.
Join readers who get 5–8 new articles daily — no algorithms, no shadow bans.
0 0 votes
Article Rating
226 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
timetochooseagain
August 14, 2011 1:09 pm

With regard to Bart’s argument that large changes in climate were associated with small changes in the radiative balance, put aside for the moment that it is laughable to suggest that we know the “forcing” associated with past changes in climate when we don’t know the “forcing” currently influencing climate (ie “aerosols” and there associated uncertainties, not even getting into natural effects…) Surely it makes sense to expect extremely large changes in climate associated, then, with much larger changes in radiative input. The biggest change would have to be the fact that the sun was about 75% as bright as presently 3.8 billion years ago, a forcing of a whopping 85 W/m^2 (compared to a forcing going from CO2 going from 280 to 560 ppm of about 3.7 W/m^2 this is a really huge forcing) and yet there is abundant evidence that the Earth had a stable ocean and liquid water as early as 3.9 billion years ago. This despite the fact that such a “forcing” should have, according to the current paradigm, lead to global mean temperatures about 68 degrees colder than the present, which would have lead to a completely frozen Earth, with the mean temperature at about 54 degrees below the freezing point of water. So somehow we are expected to believe it is a mere coincidence that, in point of fact, at least 78% of this “forcing” was canceled out by “something” (usually postulated to be CO2, except the geological evidence is that the concentrations then simply couldn’t have been high enough) so that there could have been a world which was at least similar in climate to the present. This is pretty absurd. It makes more sense to postulate a mechanism that tends to keep the Earth’s climate within a narrow range than to postulate a pure coincidental forcing cancelling out that faint sun. Especially since the physical evidence pretty conclusively shows that such a strong forcing is inconsistent with the possible levels of greenhouse gases at that time.

Gary Hladik
August 14, 2011 1:16 pm

Willis Eschenbach says (August 14, 2011 at 10:15 am): “Part of the reason that thunderstorms can grow so fast is that the thunderstorms actually produce their own cloud nuclei, from the salt particles that are created by and swept up in the winds around the base of the thunderstorms.”
It just occurred to me that variations in ocean salinity over geological time might affect cloud nucleation, in addition to affecting ocean circulation, CO2 solubility, etc.
Darn, and I thought my understanding of the planet’s climate system was “settled”. 🙁

Ian W
August 14, 2011 1:17 pm


pochas says:
August 14, 2011 at 7:36 am
Boltzmann radiation is the big elephant in the room, and it does no good to obscure that fact. It gets warmer, more heat radiates to space. Its a great, big, negative feedback, raised to the 4th power, that hasn’t changed since the dawn of time. Everything else is of minor significance. Deny it and you speak gibberish.

It would appear that you are unaware of a very much larger elephant in the room that was the main subject of this post. Water vapor and the latent heat of state change.
EVERY cloud droplet, ice crystal, rain drop, hail stone was once water vapor. The water vapor evaporated from the surface taking with it latent heat of evaporation (the molecules’ kinetic energy) when those water vapor molecules reach the condensation level they change state – and release energy – then again when they freeze they release energy.
Remember that convection and latent heat are the major transport of energy to the tropopause. Some convective updrafts can be more than 100kts vertically – with liquid water carried up to the tropopause where the air temperature is minus 40 deg or colder – and the water as it freezes releases latent heat – that is not in accordance with Stefan Boltzmann. In fact every single water molecule in the clouds has released latent heat.
Pochas – show us in the Stefan Boltzmann equations based on surface temperatures where the latent heat of water changing state is considered.

Owen
August 14, 2011 1:18 pm

Mr. Eschenbach,
This is a brilliant article. Thank you for posting you ideas. Every time I read something you’ve written I learn something that is often startling and always insightful. You and Anthony Watts are the best !

old engineer
August 14, 2011 1:40 pm

Willis-
I always enjoy your articles, they provoke really interesting and informative discussions. Your article seems to be only about the diurnal convection patterns in the tropics.
All I know about the climate temperature models I have learned here at WUWT. While they are apparently called General Circulation Models (GCM’s), when it comes to CO2 effects they are apparently only about radiation at the top of the atmosphere (TOA).
I like the term “radiationist” that AlanG (August 14, 2011 at 2:41am) uses. So many of the arguments I read are all about radiation at the TOA. These arguments seem to ignore the other two means of heat transfer- convection and conduction. These two would appear to be all important at the sea surface if you are considering what happens to the radiative energy at the planet’s surface.
But certainly models with such a grand name as “General Circulation Model”, would include average diurnal atmospheric circulation patterns in tropics, and diurnal and seasonal patterns at latitudes outside the tropics, as well as heat transfer to the deeper ocean. If I am wrong about this, would someone please correct me, because if they don’t consider all that we do know about the atmosphere, of what use are they?.

Bart
August 14, 2011 1:46 pm

“It’s Not About Feedback”
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
“The first thing to understand about climate homeostasis is that it has nothing to do with feedback.”
Homeostasis is feedback. It’s almost definitional. First reference in web search:

Homeostasis is a state of balance in the body. The balance is maintained through a series of negative feedback mechanisms.

“I cannot think of any complex natural flow system which is linear in that manner with respect to its inputs. “
If the system is smooth and mathematically representable, then it can be approximated as a deterministic system with perturbations described by a linear system model.
The term “linear system” is much more general than a constant gain. It is more general even than a frequency dependent gain and phase response – this describes only the subclass of linear time invariant (LTI) systems. Linear perturbation theory leading to linear time varying systems is the founding principle which allows us to control everything from rocket ships to hard disk drives via feedback. And, linear time varying but periodic systems are amenable to modeling via LTI methods.
“I find it completely astounding that people actually believe that the global climate system, with all of its intricate feedbacks and forcings and resonances and chaotic nature, is that linearly simple.”
Arrrggghhhh!

Bart
August 14, 2011 1:56 pm

Bart Verheggen says:
August 14, 2011 at 3:03 am
‘So how do past climate changes (from snowball earth to the hothouse Cretaceous) fit in your paradigm that “that the temperature of the Earth is kept within a fairly narrow range through the action of a variety of natural homeostatic mechanisms.”?’
In my post above, I am not disagreeing with Willis’ claims in general, just his understanding of what “feedback: encompasses. For this comment from the other Bart, I would direct his attention to information on bistable systems.
In a nonlinear system, you can have two or even many equilibrium points. The system can be linearized about a given equilibrium and perturbations from the equilibrium described by a generally time varying linear system, as I described in the previous post. When the system is far from an equilibrium, the perturbed linear system description no longer holds. But, when it flips from one equilibrium state to another, you can re-linearize about that equilibrium, and describe perturbations from it with a linear system model.

August 14, 2011 2:42 pm

Yes this is a brilliant article. I also love the animation link from Richard. I have the strong impression that the oceans must be the Earth’s thermostat. They react to any increase in temperature through evaporation thereby directly cooling the surface by release of latent heat. This energy is then released to the atmosphere through condensation – just like a refrigerator. Water vapor is the major greenhouse gas and helps to warm the Earth if temperatures are below the “equilibrium” level ( thermostat temperature) – so called positive feedback. However if temperatures rise too much above the “equilibrium” then thunderstorms and tropical storms are then triggered which transfer vast amounts of heat energy to the upper troposphere to radiate directly to space. At these heights any remaining CO2 is basically irrelevant because the mean free path for absorption is of the order of kilometers. In effect convective thunderstorms can simply short-circuit the greenhouse effect and blast heat out to the top of the atmosphere to radiate unimpeded. In addition the extra humidity reduces the environmental lapse rate ( 9.8C/km for dry to 4.5C/km fro saturated) which reduces the greenhouse effect of CO2 to below pre-industrial levels.
If I have my sums right – then the extra radiative forcing from one year of increased CO2 levels results in about 10**17 joules of extra heat energy for the earth to shed each day in order to maintain a constant temperature. This is the equivalent of about 100 daily thunderstorms in the tropics or just one large tropical storm. One large tropical storm can release a total heat energy from the ocean of the order of 10**20 joules.

Dave Springer
August 14, 2011 3:02 pm

Piss poor thermostat that lays mile thick ice sheet over most of the northern hemisphere for 100,000 years then melts it for 10,000 like an antique freezer getting a periodic defrost.
Spare me.
Bottom line is current epoch is an ice age and if there’s any damn thing humans can possibly to warm it up to the normal non-ice age conditions it should be embraced not shunned. Fat chance burning off a few pockets of gas & oil are going to cause any long term change. Temporary at best until there’s none left to burn. Then what?

TimC
August 14, 2011 3:07 pm

Willis – thanks but I’m afraid I am still against you on this.
I accept that there are complex weather systems bubbling away at any given point over the earth’s surface but, on a planetary scale as the earth rotates on its axis, I suggest these will essentially average out, at similar angular distances as from the sub-solar point, at decadal and centennial timeframes. (Of course it may well be different if you take geological timeframes involving land mass movements).
For average global temperatures the determining factor is TSI, at some 1,366 W/m^2 (averaged over the orbital cycle). Apart from the effect of the ellipticity in orbit the TSI is very stable – it changed by only some 0.3% (say 4 W/m^2) during the Maunder minimum.
This stability in TSI has 2 effects: (i) as you say it makes global average temperatures remarkably stable (but I suggest the temperature stability is principally down to the TSI stability) and (ii) estimating the effect of a TSI forcing on global average temperatures is difficult when you have only a 0.3% forcing range. All one can really do is estimate the best linear approximation, so ∆T = λ ∆Q is just the best you can practically do.
I of course accept that ∆T = λ ∆Q is only a testable hypothesis, over this narrow range – but I’m afraid I can’t see that (as applying to global average temperatures) it is falsified by your “homeostatic mechanism” examples. You have perhaps shown coincidence, but I suggest causation is the constant TSI – at the enormous 1.3 kilowatts/square metre figure, which of course causes all the tropical thunderstorms).

Alcheson
August 14, 2011 3:36 pm

NIce article. Willis, you say “In other words, in the all-important tropical region, climate sensitivity is not a constant in any sense. Instead, it varies inversely with temperature.”
If we take it that increasing CO2 levels result in a positive increase in temperature, then your statement above would be tantamount to saying that the feedbacks are NEGATIVE because the climate sensitiviy varies inversely with temperature. This is exactly what one would anticipate in a robust system. More evidence the warming from CO2 is significantly less than the 1,5C per doubling in the absence of feedbacks.

Norm Donovan
August 14, 2011 3:42 pm

Could someone please answer a basic question about climate models:
I used to simulate semiconductor device physics. Early primitive models had gross parameters (like Vt) that applied to the whole device. As devices kept shrinking we found that these gross parameters were less and less useful and our simulators changed to use point equations where we divided a piece of silicon into millions of small volumes each of which had a voltage, current, temperature, concentration of dopants, etc. The gross behavior of the device then became the sum of the pieces. We no longer had simplistic parameters like “Sensitivity”. instead we could say for a given set of voltages and configuration of device, we could expect a certain switch time or current, etc.
Don’t climate models break the Earth (mostly atmosphere) into billions of small volumes, each of which has a density, temp, humidity, radiative flux, albedo etc. and then isn’t a climate simulation the process of combining the behavior of these billions of volumes to simulate large scale phenomena? I assume the circulation cells and thunderstorms would just sort of drop out of the well-constructed point-equation model.
Don’t climate models work this way? If not, how can they hope to simulate the wildly complex climate?

Theo Goodwin
August 14, 2011 3:43 pm

Willis writes:
“Under the new late-morning cumulus circulation regime, much less surface warming goes on. Part of the sunlight is reflected back to space, so less energy makes it into the system to begin with.”
Can Willis or anyone answer a question for me, please? How does the Warmista account of warming caused by IR tie into what Willis says? Is the Warmista position that IR is only partially reflected by clouds and that only heating from IR should be taken into account and, therefore, that the decreased surface warming described by Willis is irrelevant to Earth’s energy budget? In other words, do Warmista simply ignore the warming from visible sunlight and, for that reason, ignore the changes in surface warming that Willis describes in his several regimes?

Spector
August 14, 2011 4:04 pm

Regarding Cloud Condensation Nuclei, here is what the Wikipedia has to say:
“Cloud condensation nuclei or CCNs (also known as cloud seeds) are small particles (typically 0.2 µm, or 1/100 th the size of a cloud droplet [1]) about which cloud droplets coalesce. Water requires a non-gaseous surface to make the transition from a vapour to a liquid. In the atmosphere, this surface presents itself as tiny solid or liquid particles called CCNs. When no CCNs are present, water vapour can be supercooled below 0 C (32 F) before droplets spontaneously form (this is the basis of the cloud chamber for detecting subatomic particles). In above freezing temperatures the air would have to be supersaturated to around 400% before the droplets could form.”
This would seem to indicate that condensation is greatly helped by these nuclei, but, depending on conditions, they are not absolutely required for condensation to begin, especially in subfreezing air.
Until condensation begins, a rising column of air cools at 9.8 deg C per 1000 meters. As the standard lapse rate in the lower atmosphere is about 6.5 deg C per 1000 meters, it will be cooling with respect to the surrounding air at 3.3 deg C per 1000 meters. This rising column of air will soon cool down to the temperature of the surrounding air and stop rising unless condensation begins first. If that happens, the column will only cool at the saturated or wet adiabatic rate of only 5 deg C per 1000 meters and at this rate, it will actually be warming with respect to the surrounding air at 1.5 deg C per 1000 meters. This relative warming is what makes the rise a runaway process until almost all the water vapor has condensed out.

Steve Garcia
August 14, 2011 4:17 pm

I am maybe showing my naivete, but every step here described by Willis seems like it can be re-started as a term in an overall equation, and all the terms (steps) together then make for one overall equation. In the morning the first term is at maximum heat accumulation and some of the others are zero or nearly so. As the day moves along, each term has an increase in its heat accumulation and then a die-off.
It seems like this would be able to be set up and empirically tested, and perhaps over time a functional average COULD be arrived at. At the same time, with the power of computers, maybe an average isn’t needed; the daily cycle can be lat/long gridded for the entire ocean.
Likewise adding stepped daily cycle heat accumulation terms for land types, all this should be able to be churned out. I don’t have the expertise to do it, but if no one in the climatology/meteorology field don’t, what are they doing with their time?
Like I said, maybe I am just naive enough to not see that this is anything more than a big compound equation. What can be described can be turned into an equation. The various necessary constants can be arrived at empirically and then tested against reality – then plugged into the proper terms. What am I missing here?

R. Gates
August 14, 2011 4:25 pm

Dirk H. said:
“When two LINEAR feedbacks are added or subtracted the result is necessarily LINEAR so i wonder whether you know what kind of interaction you talk about.”
____
Who said anything about linear feedback? When feedback is positive, it most definitely may not linear…for if it was, we would never have gotten out of the last glacial period.

R. Gates
August 14, 2011 4:30 pm

Gary Pearse says:
August 14, 2011 at 11:29 am
Willis, this is a compelling theory. However it’s no good just to say existing models are crap. You have the makings of an all embracing model here.
____
Really? An “all embracing model”? It takes supercomputers to simulate the global climate and Willis has created something that can be calculated on a cell-phone and it is “all embracing”? He should go down in history then, I’m sure.

Tom S
August 14, 2011 5:22 pm

They attempt to quantify the AGW threat by simplifying, hence the linearity of it all. More dumming down is all….

James Sexton
August 14, 2011 5:54 pm

R. Gates says:
August 14, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Gary Pearse says:
August 14, 2011 at 11:29 am
Willis, this is a compelling theory. However it’s no good just to say existing models are crap. You have the makings of an all embracing model here.
____
Really? An “all embracing model”? It takes supercomputers to simulate the global climate and Willis has created something that can be calculated on a cell-phone and it is “all embracing”? He should go down in history then, I’m sure.
============================================================
Uhmm…. no and no. Gary, Willis brought up several great points and mechanisms which aren’t currently included in the models. All embracing as in all encompassing? Nope, not anywhere close. There are mechanisms out there that no one has considered….. I posit that there are mechanisms which engage and disengage depending upon the conditions of our climate. So, to accurately model our climate, we’d have to model things we haven’t seen before. In other words, things act differently when things are different. The pool analogy is a great example of such occurrences. One can exercise the same force, hitting the same exact spot on the cue-ball, striking a ball in the exact same spot, while the ball being exactly in the same location relative to the pockets, and we can get a different result. Why? Because things act different when things are different. And nothing is ever exactly the same.
R. Gates……. It doesn’t take super-computers to make models…… they run the models. Repeat after me….. “There is no such thing as Artificial Intelligence.” “There is no such thing as AI.” “There is no such thing as AI.” “There is no such thing as AI.” “There is no such thing as AI.” Super-computers are used because the models are wrong. If the model was correct, we wouldn’t need the hundreds of runs they do.

August 14, 2011 6:00 pm

http://research.aerology.com/natural-processes/sea-ice-thermostat/
From a comment I made over on the open thread, my ideas on the polar ice process.

Camburn
August 14, 2011 6:03 pm

R. Gates says:
August 14, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Dirk H. said:
“When two LINEAR feedbacks are added or subtracted the result is necessarily LINEAR so i wonder whether you know what kind of interaction you talk about.”
____
Who said anything about linear feedback? When feedback is positive, it most definitely may not linear…for if it was, we would never have gotten out of the last glacial period.
Robert:
And what would cause you to think that if the positive feedback was linear that that in any way affects whether we would enter an interglacial? We know that there are huge problems using Milankovitch theory, with one of the main ones being phase change. A bit of correlation, but just as many factors not adding up to what would be expected.
What this shows us is that linear or parabolic, we just don’t understand why. Nor do we understand Bond events, Heinrich events, D-O events. There are more things that show how little we know and understand climate than we can prove.

Christopher Game
August 14, 2011 6:30 pm

Willis uses the phrase ‘heat engine’ to refer the earth’s energy transport process, but he doesn’t seem to use it in the sense to be found in thermodynamics. For thermodynamics, a heat engine takes in a certain amount heat from a hot reservoir and puts some lesser amount of heat out to a cooler reservoir, while the energy difference in heats is put out by the engine as work. Willis’s usage doesn’t seem to mention any work output from his ‘heat engine’.

HR
August 14, 2011 6:43 pm

Willis,
You draw critics attention to your other post,specifically the section that starts “Gradual Equilibrium Variation and Drift”. I read it. This section includes speculations that includes
“On a shorter term, there could be slow changes in the albedo……”
“For snow and ice, this could be e.g. increased melting due to black carbon deposition on the surface. For clouds, this could be a color change due to aerosols or dust.”
“Finally, the equilibrium variations may relate to the sun…..”
The simple equation you start with which you say encapsulates mainstream views can be written in an expanded form to include all these forcings/feedbacks that make up the total forcings.
My question is why you’re speculations also doesn’t include other forcings such as CO2 or GHGs in this list of speculations. There doesn’t seem to be any good reason to exclude them?
Also because you may identify possible non-linear processes controlling day-to-day temperature fluctuations doesn’t mean that all processes controlling temperature change (especially on different time scles) are non-linear or can’t be approximated by simple linear equations. I’m with other critics in that I don’t understand how identifying a particular non-linear process specifically rules out the existence of approximately linear ones.