Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
This one is for fun and also for real. The theme of this post is “There’s never enough time.” I worked in the villages of the developing world off and on for a number of years. A recurring issue is the inefficiency of most stoves. The simplest is the “three stone” variety, made with three stones to put the pot on.
Figure 1. An obviously ancient three-stone fire with a modern cookpot in Tanzania. Photo Source
This is hugely wasteful of fuel, particularly in lands where wood and even branches and twigs are scarce. Among my known defects is that I’m an inventor. Over the years I’ve worked on making and designing a variety of stoves to try to improve stove efficiency. As a result, in one of my peregrinations around the web a few days ago I was intrigued to stumble across the “Kelly Kettle”.
The Kelly Kettle was used in Ireland by the shepherds to brew their cuppa tea. Here’s one at work on a beach somewhere.
Figure 2. Kelly Kettle cooking on a beach. Note the fire coming out the chimney.
The brilliance of the plan is that the water in the kettle surrounds the fire. I looked at that, and my inventor’s soul rose to the fore, and I thought “Man, I could make the radical Dutch Oven using that plan. Here’s what I think it might look like.
Figure 3. What I call the “Magic Cookpot”. Note the split (two part) lids, one of which has been removed, flipped over, and laid on the ground for clarity. Lids will have handles in the final version.
And here’s a cross-section:
Figure 4. Cross-section of Magic Cookpot without the lids.
No good to throw away waste heat, so the Kelly Kettles have a pan-holder that fits in the chimney to allow you to cook another pot of food on top.
Figure 5. Kelly Kettle with cookpot. Source.
Looks good to me, so here’s my version of the same. This would allow you to cook soup or stew and have a frypan on top …
Figure 6. Potholder inserts into chimney of Magic Cookpot.
OK, advantages of this plan:
• Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. Even without cooking anything on the top, this will heat water with less fuel than any design I’ve ever seen.
• Cost. Because the stove and the cookpot are one, you don’t need to buy both.
• Portability. It can be moved easily.
• Adaptability. It can use a variety of fuels, including a propane burner.
• Speed. It will heat water fast.
As I mentioned, the theme of this post is the theme of life—there’s never enough time.
In a perfect world, I’d take this idea and run with it and make a big difference in the amount of wood burned around the planet. I don’t have time, I have a bunch of other projects going on. But I’d hate to see this idea die, it’s a really good one that could make a big difference. So I figure I’ll cast the idea free on the web, make a gift of it to the world of stoves, and see what becomes of it out in the greater marketplace of ideas.
How could this rough plan be improved? It needs a damper to control the draft, and some kind of flap to control the air intake. You could probably increase the heat transfer (fire to liquid) by putting some spiral fins up the chimney. This would increase the surface area and transfer extra heat to the cookpot.
In any case, there it is, and I encourage anyone with the time and energy to become the champion of the idea. You’ll make a name for yourself and have women blessing you all around the planet. All it needs are a couple of sharp Brazilian or Indian or Chinese (or European or American) college students who’d like to make a difference in the world.
w.
Shanghai Dan… yeah that was it! I remember the hostess saying it was “hotpot” now. I probably misremember the water/sauce thing, it was a few years ago. Interesting what they gave to dip in the broth to eat…
Not quite off topic, but a large step up from simple cooking, is the MultiMachine. It’s based on using discards from automotive products to build machine tools which can be powered by men, donkeys, water, wind, or electricity. The idea is to build rudimentary tools which can be used to build better tools.
I’ve been working with a group which has a school in Kenya, trying to get a shop started where the studies in math and science can be applied. For further information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/multimachine/
Getting people out of the stone age isn’t as hard when they learn how to make tools to make tools.
“hugely wasteful” might be somewhat of an exaggeration, no? The cost of this thing (has to be imported) could buy you a couple of cubic meters of wood, enough for several years of hugely wasteful cooking with 3 stones. Not much wood is needed to cook anything by any extravagantly wasteful method, and although AGW crowd would disagree, it grows back. As someone that likes to grill things (even more wasteful), I usually get by with a few branches of wood lying around. And efficiency can be hugely improved by such things as described above.. some mud and some more stones. no need for high tech stoves. I somehow doubt that African villagers are as retarded as some people in the west think they are
I’m a big fan of Willis, but this is a crock. Several people have mentioned one problem and that is costs. Who will pay? Between the politicans and the dictators, they will get their dirty hands on any project like handing out cooking devices. Oil for food-That worked great. What to use for fuel? Go to Haiti and try to find a small tree to cut and use-lots of luck there. So, who is going to supply the alcohol or charcoal? Rid the world of petty politicans and educate the people and they won’t need our help anymore unless they vote for thieves and politicans. Sorry I am so cynical . I would like to help and would if there was a truly good way to do it. That problem must be solved before the charity.
Good one, Willis. Excellent info from commenters (the usual exceptional WUWT crew) to gather all the histories of efficient heating and cooking and pass them on to the next generation.
It looks like this could be made locally out of clay. It needs a tap/plug at the bottom of the reservoir to draw off liquid without having to tip it up. (Or a ladle on bigger models I suppose)
Pause for a moment though. If we are, quite sensibly, taking away the smoke on the grounds of health and efficiency; we need to ask, what else is that smoke doing? One upside of a bit of smoke with a grass roof (no hole) is that it seeps through and kills of insects, so the birds don’t tear up your roof to get at them. As long as the roof is high enough or internal volume large enough people live well under the smoke layer. What are the implications of and solution to removing the positive aspects of smoke?
Ah, the old thermette of my childhood, nicely updated.
We also have a similar device, a charcoal-fired steamboat (aka Mongolian hotpot). Great for entertaining – you prepare sliced vegetables (bok choy, spring onions, zucchini, carrot), small slices of beef, firm-fleshed fish (small shark is best), chicken, pork, mussels, cockles, abalone, prawns etc. Cook enough rice for everyone. Put the rice and the ready-to-cook veges and meats on the table.
The hotpot is placed in the centre of the table when the charcoal is at bbq heat. (You need a stone or brick layer to protect the tabletop and if you’re inside, remove the smoke alarm!) Fill the bowl with chicken stock and provide sauces – chilli, soy, five-spice, whatever. Each guest has a plate and a soup bowl, a soup spoon, a fork and an open spoon made of woven brass wire, so that the spoon bowl is a brass net.
Guests put whatever they chose in their open spoon and put the spoon end in the stock. Hilarious – the food promptly floats, so everybody fishes out what they can when it is cooked. It’s great fun and the taste is divine. The meal lasts at least a couple of hours.
When all the food is consumed, the stock in the pot, by now highly flavoured by everything that has been cooked in it, becomes the last course. That’s right, the soup.
send it to Steve Jobs!
Add a bit of glass, smooth off the edges a bit and in a couple of years, we could all be proud owners an ipot.
I kind of surprised no one has mentioned what materials would be used to build the stove. Obviously there would be several different styles. Alloys for the western user who needs weight savings over durability(every day use) and cheaper metals with a focus on durability for those who would use it daily. I am not familiar with all the alloys out there for the camper/outdoorsman, but for the daily user iron would seem to be best for cost and durability. This is a wonderful idea, Willis, kudos to you.
You could incorporporate a tap into the body of it, fairly low down, so that hot water may be drawn off, without having to shift and tilt the unit. That would mean that you could continue to use another pan on top, undisturbed.
great idea — the example looks like cast iron which would need to be seasoned and is inclined to rust — stainless steel would be lighter and easier to maintain but would lack the mass to retain heat. The fuel source is still the primary problem.
As gross as this sounds, why not use human waste to generate methane and use the methane for cooking? Or, split water and use the hydrogen as fuel. Storing hydrogen is a problem but using it at point of use would work. Might be able to use urine and produce clean water and fuel?
Excellent Post!
My wife did Peace Corp in west Africa and currently manages a social projects department for an American oil company in west Africa. She came across a project that allows doners to gift a solar powered (Don’t write it off yet!) flashlight to villages in regions that are desperately short on fluel or places where poor fuel sources like trash are burned indoors . The light is needed in the evenings, and is bright enough to replace a roaring fire.
https://www.bogolight.com/Articles.asp?ID=136
I’d love to see a similar project set up where a custom designed and massed produced “Watts” stove could be gifted. The aim would be to reduce deforrestation (an ACTUAL environmental problem) and improve health. I’d much rather have one of these donated in my name at Christmas than receive another (choose one: sweater, tie, fruit cake, coffee table book, etc). Besides you’d never have to worry about accidentaly ‘re-gifting’ one of these to the original giver.
If anyone would like to take off and run with this idea, I’d love to be a part of it.
Old Goat says: May 10, 2011 at 6:58 am
You could incorporporate a tap into the body of it, fairly low down, so that hot water may be drawn off, without having to shift and tilt the unit. That would mean that you could continue to use another pan on top, undisturbed.
Oh yes? Would that other pan on top be a container of cold water … hot water my foot! Nice try, but it’ll never wash with the excise man.
Yes, an ideal version of this, imo, would have an all-clad aluminum center that would extend from the top of the inner cone chimney along the bottom up through the top of the the outside walls. We wouldn’t want any hot spots while cooking, now would we? 🙂
Of course, the three stone method has other purposes. The hefty rocks in the image at the top have a fair sized thermal mass. So although the cooking process is inefficient in terms of how much of the heat goes into the food compared to the rocks, it should be remembered that an integral part of the reason people use such big rocks is because they act as storage heaters, keeping the hut warmer throughout the night, after the fire is out.
It’s rather like the reasoning people have for keeping their incandescant bulbs. They want their room warm anyway.
See:
http://kammen.berkeley.edu//cookstoves.html
THIS ARTICLE IS REPRODUCED HERE FOR EDUCATIONAL, NON-PROFIT USE ONLY.
(c) Scientific American, 1995.
good point tallbloke — the old bed warmer…
This from 3 years ago but the problem is electricity to split the water which is inefficient. Although the car version in the video is using the 12 volt battery to do it so I suppose solar and battery storage might work in the bush. Addressing potable drinking water, sanitation, and conservation of energy in a holistic way would be amazing. Who knows, if this were developed the UNFCC might get off its duff and actually implement something that has a true benefit. Probably not but one can dream.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-Hg6ntgqI&w=640&h=510%5D
Sadly, in today’s environment, casting a novel idea afloat on the internet may only provoke the unscrupulous to capture it and attempt to patent it, thereby creating the irony of a situation in which the actual creator could be legally prevented from using his own idea.
I was rather surprised that no one mentioned that LP gas would probably be better as a fuel. See one one LP gas company in India is doing to supply community LP gas kitchens for rural communities, http://www.exceptionalenergy.com/uploads/Ressources/WLPGA%20-%20community_kitchens.pdf.
I love the comments and the idea, but the 800 pound gorilla that I see in the room is that the central heating idea makes it very hard to clean and cook anything in the water.
It will work great for boiling water for tea, and noodles but that is about it. A pot is much more efficient to actually cook in and clean.
Make a green version to include-
Small wind turbine and solar panel to power fan to provide forced airflow
CCS device fitted to the chimney
CO2 sensor to calculate carbon footprint
Software package to run on iPhone so green campers can monitor their footprint in real-time
Sell above version via NatGeo etc to green people with more money than sense, use profits to subsidise the stripped down practical versions for those that would benefit.
Curious though how design matches typical cooking and diets in areas that could benefit, ie whether it could be improved with options for roasting/grilling/baking.
Hot water heaters work the same way as mentioned earlier. 75% of India and China still cook and heat with corn stover, wood, charcoal, coal trash etc.
Tall Bloke, my brother from another mother!!! I have made camp stoves using various sizes of metal coffee and soup/food cans, for use with wood, charcoal, trioxine tabs and even candles. Have made candle lanterns from beer cans, one from a Fosters can that we used for several years.
Nice design. You may want to consider posting it at http://bioenergylists.org
Take some time to review the site. There is a wealth of information there, almost to the point of information overload. Your interest and insight would also be welcome on the Stoves list.
@wcp2, It is not an exaggeration. A couple cubic meters of wood might last a few weeks for a family who must cook every day with it. A 3-stone fire tended by a skilled cook can be as efficient as many “improved” stoves, sometimes more efficient, given perfect conditions. The problem is that there are not many cooks whose priority is the efficient burning of wood and conditions are rarely perfect. Most improved cook stoves provide significant savings for the user and many are quite inexpensive. Yes, wood can grow back, if allowed to. In areas of high demand, wood is consumed at rates far higher than its capacity to grow back, like overgrazing. Time spent gathering fuel, and/or money spent to purchase it, puts a tremendous burden on the family, particularly women and girls. Most improved stoves also improve air quality which gives a significant health benefit. Any significant reduction in fuel consumption compounds the overall benefit to the family and society.
Nuclear power is one hell of a way to boil water. – Albert Einstein
I wonder whether nuclear energy is more efficient than other forms of energy. My more interesting thought is, if you have nuclear energy, do you need to care about efficiency optimization? Why should we worry about a lack of twigs to boil water, or dung? Is that the life we want?
Japan is likely going to have a bit of shortage of electricity this summer because the Daiichi nuclear plants will be offline. Japan has quite a shortage of twigs to keep the Ginza lit. It also has a shortage of oil.
The rest of the world does well when we develop technology that can be shared. Tech development requires concentrated capital and facilities to develop new ideas and manufacture new products. Spreading the wealth would limit our ability to develop new tech and would tend to diminish the quality of life for those at the bottom.
This principle was evident during the Depression. Will Rogers said, “America is the only country where people drive to the poor house in their car.” Our poorest today live better than kings of 500 years ago. Go to third world countries and you will see satellite dishes on shacks. There are compact clean water systems being developed that will help prevent disease. Pharmaceuticals also help save lives all around the world. These drugs require almost a billion dollars each to develop.
Social justice, whatever that is, will kill people. A true free market and a benevolent modern society will save millions of people suffering elsewhere. The way to do that is not to bring the top down, but to bring the bottom up. Life is not a zero sum game. Let the top end of society rise, and the bottom will go up too.