Monster earthquake off of Japanese coast: 8.9, Tsunami strikes, massive damage, thousands of deaths likely

Tsunami warnings for US west coast, Hawaii, Alaska - click for official NOAA map

UPDATE:  00:00 PST 3/13/11 Japanese Met Agency has upgraded the magnitude of the quake to 9.0 — up from 8.8, their previous estimate.

UPDATE: 14:20 PST 3/11/11 Additional graphs and data added to end of post h/t Eco Tretas

UPDATE: 4:05 am PST Tsunami Warning continues for much of the US Pacific Coast and British Columbia.

UPDATE: Compared to quakes since 1900, this appears to be the sixth largest on record, see table added below from USGS data.

Tsunami Warning for the entire Pacific basin coastline including California, impact at 7:42 -8:15 AM local time e.g. San Francisco.

UPDATE:  One of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded.  Hawaii under Tsunami Warning. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center Updates / Warning Website Link.  Aftershocks continuing.  Tsunami Watch issued for California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Canada…

UPDATE: Here’s a screencap from live streaming from Japan via news helicopter showing the Tsunami as it strike s the north coast:

UPDATE: NHK TV in Japan reports Tsunami hit. Massive damage, reports below.

8.9 quake at Friday, March 11, 2011 at 05:46:00 UTC.  Preliminary estimate was 7.9 and was upgraded to 8.8, now 8.9. Current details from USGS.  Tsunami warning issued.

We’ll have more on this as it develops.

If you know of webcams in the area in Japan, leave a comment.

(AP) – JAPAN’S METEOROLOGICAL AGENCY NOW WARNS THAT A TSUNAMI AS HIGH AS 20 FEET (6 METERS) COULD STRIKE THE COAST NEAR MIYAGI PREFECTURE, CLOSEST TO THE EPICENTER.

WEHW40 PHEB 110557

TSUHWX

HIZ001>003-005>009-012>014-016>021-023>026-110757-

/O.NEW.PHEB.TS.A.0001.110311T0557Z-000000T0000Z/

BULLETIN

TSUNAMI MESSAGE NUMBER   1

NWS PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER EWA BEACH HI

756 PM HST THU MAR 10 2011

TO - CIVIL DEFENSE IN THE STATE OF HAWAII

SUBJECT - TSUNAMI WATCH

A TSUNAMI WATCH IS ISSUED FOR THE STATE OF HAWAII EFFECTIVE AT

0756 PM HST.

AN EARTHQUAKE HAS OCCURRED WITH THESE PRELIMINARY PARAMETERS

   ORIGIN TIME - 0746 PM HST 10 MAR 2011

   COORDINATES - 38.0 NORTH  142.9 EAST

   LOCATION    - NEAR EAST COAST OF HONSHU  JAPAN

   MAGNITUDE   - 7.9  MOMENT

EVALUATION

 BASED ON ALL AVAILABLE DATA A TSUNAMI MAY HAVE BEEN GENERATED BY

 THIS EARTHQUAKE THAT COULD BE DESTRUCTIVE ON COASTAL AREAS EVEN

 FAR FROM THE EPICENTER. AN INVESTIGATION IS UNDERWAY TO DETERMINE

 IF THERE IS A TSUNAMI THREAT TO HAWAII.

 IF TSUNAMI WAVES IMPACT HAWAII THE ESTIMATED EARLIEST ARRIVAL OF

 THE FIRST TSUNAMI WAVE IS

                     0259 AM HST FRI 11 MAR 2011

MESSAGES WILL BE ISSUED HOURLY OR SOONER AS CONDITIONS WARRANT.

From Fox News :

The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii said a tsunami warning was in effect for Japan, Russia, Marcus Island and the Northern Marianas. A tsunami watch has been issued for Guam, Taiwan, the Philippines, Indonesia and U.S. state of Hawaii.

The quake struck at 2:46 p.m. at a depth of 10 kilometers, about 80 miles (125 kilometers) off the eastern coast, the meteorological agency said. The area is 240 miles (380 kilometers) northeast of Tokyo.

In downtown Tokyo, large buildings shook violently and workers poured into the street for safety. TV footage showed a large building on fire and bellowing smoke in the Odaiba district of Tokyo.

From CBS News:

Japanese television showed video of serious damage caused by a tsunami along the nation’s northern coast. Public broadcaster NHK showed cars, trucks, houses and buildings being swept away by the tsunami in Onahama city, Fukushima prefecture.

A tsunami warning was in effect for Japan, Russia, Marcus Island and the Northern Marianas. A tsunami watch has been issued for Guam, Taiwan, the Philippines, Indonesia and U.S. state of Hawaii.

There were reports that evacuations were underway along the Russian coast.

===================================================================

Rank        Location Date Magnitude2
1. Chile May 22, 1960 9.5
2. Prince William Sound, Alaska March 28, 19643 9.2
3. Andreanof Islands, Aleutian Islands March 9, 1957 9.1
4. Kamchatka Nov. 4, 1952 9.0
5. Off western coast of Sumatra, Indonesia Dec. 26, 2004 9.0
6. Off the coast of Ecuador Jan. 31, 1906 8.8
7. Offshore Maule, Chile Feb. 27, 2010 8.8
8. Rat Islands, Aleutian Islands Feb. 4, 1965 8.7
9. Northern Sumatra, Indonesia March 28, 2005 8.7
10. India-China border Aug. 15, 1950 8.6
1. In terms of magnitude.
2. Moment magnitude.
3. March 28, 03:36:14 UT (March 27, 5:36 P.M. local time)
Source: National Earthquake Information Center, U.S. Geological Survey.
[Updated  Data Graphs added 14:20 PST 3/11/11]
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March 13, 2011 6:58 pm

,
Not all astrologers are ‘male,” as one of my main teachers was a female, so let’s not make assumptions simply because a short list of male mundane astrologers has you going into gender issues which has little to do with this topic. That is just simply more proof of how ideology has poisoned science, and it has no place
As for Newton: do more reading. I included a link earlier which shows Newton’s own notebooks, and the books found in his library. This should tell you more than enough about Newton and his practice of scientific astrology.
As for your comment that astrology is ‘apart from science,’ – you are clearly very wrong, since Astrology gave birth to the sciences. Whether you want to ‘believe’ it or not isn’t a factor, since it has nothing to do with the truth of the matter whatsoever. That is a ‘personal’ issue you have, and it is only for you (and no one else) to resolve.
So, rather than come off with comments fueled by opinion, personal disposition, supposed male gender issues and bias, you ought to spend more time actually studying the facts of the matter – for that is how you learn.
Regarding The Moon, Sun, Quakes & The Climate –
The Moon raises the land, sea, and air tides of the Earth. This is well-known by astrometeorologists. For instance, when the Moon rises above the horizon, it raises the air tide of the Earth, a huge atmosphere of gas (water vapor) and pushes away the cold of space.
When the Moon sets below the horizon, you will observe condensation of clouds often, this is because the cold of space then comes closer to the Earth. The troposphere kicks into action – and we get ‘weather.’
My own forecasting of the cause of the Japanese quakes is based on the magnetic resonance of the modulation of the planets of the Sun’s solar magnetic winds.
We have planetary configurations very much in line with seismic activity – and there is more to come – for the west coast of the U.S. I’ve forecasted the place, dates and magnitudes I expect, as I did with the Japanese earthquakes.
This month and April are significant for seismic activity along the Ring of Fire, and the causation are, as always – celestial.
What is known as the ‘electric quake phenomenon,’ the inclinations of sunspots and fluxes of the Interplanetary Magnetic Field (IMF) that affects the Earth’s ionosphere, forms one-half of a kind of ‘capacitor,’ with the Earth itself forming the other.
Any fluctuation of voltage levels on one half of the plate induces charges on the other.
However, unlike a capacitor, our planet has electromagnetic charges distributed below its surface, so subsurface rock plates semi-conducts itself – producing stresses – bringing about sharp spikes of electromagnetic-forced breakdowns and shifting of tectonic plates – again, sparked by celestial movements.
This includes the raising of land-tides by the Moon at variable mathematical angles, along with alignments between the Sun-Earth-Moon.
Planets also modulate rates of electromagnetic energy by mathematical angle, by their directions relative to the ecliptic, and so add to the strength of planetary conduction – resulting in low or high levels of magnitude: the release of energy.
All of this is celestially-forced:
Astrophysical = causes
Geophysical = effects
These are the principles of physics – discovered by astrologers.
These are also the same forces which bring about global warming and global cooling in our atmosphere. The Sun is the prime cause of all climate change and always has been.
It is my estimation that we are in the 30th year of solar-forced global warming, with about six (6) more years to go.
Humanity was never the cause of GW, and has never been. The lie of anthropogenic global warming has been and is propagated by the same people who say they are ‘scientists,’ but who in reality are ‘ideologists,’ – that is, self-serving greedy and corrupt careerists who are ideologues – not scientists.
Science is about exploration and discovery – no matter where it may lead.
Once personal disposition, ideology, bias and uninformed opinion has entered the equation – one ceases to be a scientist.
According to my calculations, we will enter a new ‘Global Cooling’ phase lasting approximately 36 years (2017-2053) according to the astrophysical laws of cycles that regulate the Earth’s climate – founded by astrologers.
Global cooling is much, much worse than global warming could ever be. I have stated my forecast for years, and it has not changed.
We should be preparing for bigger storms, floods, droughts and colder global temperatures – forced by the Sun, the cause of all climate change on Earth.

TerryS
March 14, 2011 12:51 am

Theodore,
“These are the principles of physics”
So the answer to my question:

Explain what forces you are talking about, how the forces are generated, detected and measured, what units they are measured in, how they propagate through various mediums and at what speed they propagate.

Is that there is no “celestial force”, just plain old simple electromagnetism and gravity,
and that astrology just takes these forces and puts its own interpretation on what impacts they will have without bothering with annoying things like calculations, equations, experimentation, measurement etc?

March 14, 2011 4:22 am

,
Define what you mean by “just plain old simple electromagnetism and gravity,” and “astrology just takes these forces and puts its own interpretation on what impacts they will have without bothering with annoying things like calculations, equations, experimentation, measurement, etc?’
What does that mean? What ‘interpretations,’ are you talking about?
Where you are coming from with all this?
First you mix in ‘gender’ with the fact that some astrologers are male. Yes, Terry most of them were and had a pair of balls. So what? Is that ‘okay’ with you, or do you have a problem with males in general in the field of science?
If I named some women, would that satisfy you enough to get off your ideological spin, or rather, would you like me to sound stupid so you can shit on astrology some more?
Would that make you feel better about it all?
Are you a scientist, or are you yet another ideologue who mixes apples with oranges and all kinds of foolishness, like your gender remarks, in an attempt to be some kind of smart ass? Science has had enough of that crap with the AGW ideologues.
Yes Terry, we silly nilly willy astrologers have to work with, as you put it, – “annoying things like calculations, equations, experimentation, measurement.”
I know I do. I have to use variable mathematics (invented by astrologers you know, algebra, geometry, etc.) in my advanced climate and weather forecasting. It is how I forecasted ENSO four years in advance.
Thing is, we can’t put the entire Earth and it’s climate into a laboratory, you know, where we can “measure” the atmosphere so accurately that we can then presume to tell everyone that humanity is the cause of global warming and climate change.
I think the problem here Terry is your own personal definition of what the term “Astro-logy” means.
Guess you don’t put any stock in the “logy” following “astro,’ since that doesn’t tell you anything (although it should tell you much.)
From the tone of your comments, you don’t appear to have much knowledge of astrology, except from a pop-culture mentality, which is par for the course coming from those who often abuse the term “astrology” as if they know what they are talking about.
Everyone has their own opinion – uninformed as they are – but few actually do any real study of the History of Astrology.
Much of what most people know – especially so-called ‘rationalists,’ is from a surface-feeder level – and that water is barely ankle deep.
Since the term “mathematicus,” means ‘astrologer’ – you might want to read a bit on the history of astrology:
Here’s a paper, written by a woman (so you won’t get on my case about it being written by a “man”) which you might learn a few things from:
“The article reviews the history of astrology in the middle ages including its classical inheritance, ascendancy under Byzantium and Islam, and development in the Latin west. Medieval astrology was a part of learned, scientific culture.
However, the translation movement in the high middle ages brought challenges of integration to the Latin west, reflected in condemnations and anxieties about the orthodoxy and morality of astrological judgments.
It was not until relatively late that astrology was practiced on a large scale in medieval courts and it never achieved the same level of prominence as it did under Islam.
The final section considers new work on the history of astrology, including astrology and medicine and astrology and the court. The article considers major figures, including Claudius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy), Isidore of Seville (c. 600 ad), Māshā’allāh (Messahallah) (c. 735–815), Abū Ma’shar (Albumasar), Ahmad ibn Yūsuf (870–904), John of Seville (fl. 1135–1153), Alfonso X (El Sabio) of Castile (1221–1284), Albertus Magnus (1206–1280), and the fifteenth-century astrologer historian, Simon de Phares.”
See – http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-0542.2010.00703.x/abstract

TerryS
March 14, 2011 6:03 am

Theodore,
As my previous comment indicates, gender is irrelevant. Here is the comment again in case you missed it:
“They were also all male. This doesn’t mean that being male makes you a scientist.”
If you choose to misinterpret this then that is beyond my control.
As for definitions.
Electromagnetism is one of the 4 fundamental forces and causes the interaction between electrically charged particles. Electromagnetic force is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the charged particles.
Gravity is another of the fundamental forces in which 2 bodies attract each other in proportion to their mass. Again, the force is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
“Yes Terry, we silly nilly willy astrologers have to work with, as you put it, – “annoying things like calculations, equations, experimentation, measurement.” ”
Presumably then, since you’ve done the calculations, you can tell me what the extra gravitational strain was on the faultline due to the moon being closer this month than last month. Alternatively you could provide the equations you used or even a link to a website that describes the equations in sufficient detail that they can replicated.
“I know I do. I have to use variable mathematics (invented by astrologers you know, algebra, geometry, etc.) in my advanced climate and weather forecasting. It is how I forecasted ENSO four years in advance.”
Without knowledge of all of your forecasts it is impossible to judge how good they are. I’ve only been able to find this one on the internet:

Fall 2010 – the season starts off with what “appears” to be another early Indian summer, but then Fall turns into a very wet, extended, and warmer-than-normal season w/ tropical air, torrential rains. This is going to be a longer-than-normal fall season that extends right into January 2011.
Winter 2011 – arrives late, not starting until early Feb. 2011, colder than normal, La Nina phase. Mid-winter conditions will exist through March, and winter conditions will persist into April 2011, making for a colder, and later than normal Spring of 2011.

That certainly doesn’t describe the fall or winter I’ve experienced.
You seem to be fixated on the role astrology played in the past. It doesn’t matter whether astrology did or did not contribute to mathematics or astronomy in past centuries. It doesn’t matter whether it was or was not considered a science in the past.
What matters is whether it is a science now.
Whether you call it natal, katarchic, electional, event, horary, mundane, world or judicial astrology having an “ology” at the end does not make it science.
All of them have one thing in common and that is that the position of a distant star at the moment of birth or at the present moment (whether a person or a nation) influences that person/nations fate.

March 14, 2011 6:43 am

Terry,
My inclusion of that link for you in no way says anything about my being “fixated on the role astrology played in the past,” – so let’s not take it upon ourselves to assume as you have done, once again, shall we?
As I’ve said, believe what you want, opine as you wish, however, that is simply your personal opinion and does not, in any shape, manner or form, change any of the facts of the matter.
Moreover, if you did not experience La Nina this year Terry, then I can only presume you are commenting on this forum from another planet other than Earth.
Just because you have not heard of astrometeorology does not make you any more qualified to then to make the assumptions you do about the science of astrological forecasting, which you are also not qualified to not call a ‘science,’ has you have done.
You are in error.
Do more reading, and study rather than offering your opinion and trying to change history to fit your personal dispositions and ideology, which I think is not only intellectual dishonest, but ignorant.
If you are to debate with an expert on astrology and forecasting then know what it is that you are debating about, or, you are not qualified to debate at all.
The only way you learn that which you do not know is to do your homework on the science of astrology. Male or female, Terry, learning that which you do not know is the same for both genders.
Have a nice life.

March 14, 2011 7:20 am

Worley, there are thousands of scientific studies on the Moon’s effects on the Earth, with direct correlations to the lifting of land, sea and air tides.
The problem with some who continue to deny these facts are that they simply do not want to ‘believe,’ and surely do not want to spend any time reading what amounts to decades of extensive scientific research on the subject.
Just a sign of the times that shows how bias, ego, careerism and ideology has nearly ruined science, such as we have seen with the years of deception that humanity was the cause of global warming – an outright lie designed to line the pockets of those with vested interests who’ve nearly destroyed climate science.
Meanwhile, NOAA has just released video of the tsunami propagation of the March 11th Japanese 9.0 earthquake I forecasted:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbANBjM_R3Q?rel=0&w=480&h=390%5D

TerryS
March 14, 2011 8:08 am

Re: Theodore
“My inclusion of that link for you in no way says anything about my being “fixated on the role astrology played in the past,””
True, however making claims about the role astrology played in the past with practically every comment does say a lot about your fixation.
“Moreover, if you did not experience La Nina this year Terry, then I can only presume you are commenting on this forum from another planet other than Earth”
I presume from this statement that you believe your prediction of a warmer than normal start to the winter (all the way into January) to be an accurate reflection of what actually happened. If thats the case then I have little confidence in your claim to have predicted ENSO four years in advance.
“Just because you have not heard of astrometeorology does not make you any more qualified to then to make the assumptions you do about the science of astrological forecasting, which you are also not qualified to not call a ‘science,’ has you have done.”
My wide experience and knowledge of science qualifies me.
“Do more reading, and study rather than offering your opinion and trying to change history to fit your personal dispositions and ideology, which I think is not only intellectual dishonest, but ignorant.”
I have not tried to change history so kindly withdraw the intellectual dishonest and ignorant accusations.
“If you are to debate with an expert on astrology and forecasting then know what it is that you are debating about, or, you are not qualified to debate at all.”
You have had many opportunities to educate both myself and anybody else who is bothering to still read this thread and have failed to take any of them.
“The only way you learn that which you do not know is to do your homework on the science of astrology. Male or female, Terry, learning that which you do not know is the same for both genders.”
I know enough about astrology to know that it would be a waste of time researching anything else about it. At its basic level, astrology makes its predictions based on the position of the stars, planets, sun and moon. Anything which claims a causal relationship between the relative positions of Alpha Arietis and Neptune with any event on Earth does not deserve to be called science.
Finally, from your reply to Dave Worley
Worley, there are thousands of scientific studies on the Moon’s effects on the Earth, with direct correlations to the lifting of land, sea and air tides.
The problem with some who continue to deny these facts….”
I was taught about the moons effect on the land and sea over 40 years ago. If I needed to I could probably still calculate the forces involved (but it has been a long time). The gravitational effect of the moon on the Earth is not in dispute by anybody.

March 14, 2011 10:12 am

Terry,
I’m not here to ‘educate’ you. From your own comments:
“I know enough about astrology to know that it would be a waste of time researching anything else about it…”
Terry, you say you know enough of ‘astrology’, that it would be ‘a waste of time,’ then why spend any of your time here commenting?
You sure have gone on at length on something that is ‘a waste of time.’
Okay.
Can we go now?

March 14, 2011 4:50 pm

Worley,
Hi Dave, actually the causes are solar, lunar and planetary. I used these calculations to forecast the Japanese quake, which, according to my calculations was between 9.0 to 9.2 in magnitude. I expect the 8.9 magnitude figure to be revised by the USGS soon.
The earthquake was caused by the transit of Uranus across the ecliptical plane it shares with the Earth along with the planetary configurations and the Sun’s increased electromagnetic flows.
What resulted is an upheaval in the earth’s crust that split the sea-bed for hundreds of kilometres off the Japanese coast. The massive quake moved the entire country about eight (8) feet to the east, while shifting Earth’s axis about 10 cm.
The Pacific plate has slipped under the Japanese plate, and the energy release sent a massive wall of sea-water via tsunami force onto Japan’s northeastern coast.
My astrological calculations show that the massive magnitude of this earthquake will also become a factor in triggering other quakes around the world, mainly along the Ring of Fire. For instance, on March 12th, there was a 6.8 magnitude earthquake in Tonga.
We must remember that there are fault lines already weakened, so the astrological configurations I’ve calculated indicate to me there are more large magnitude earthquakes on the way, this month and into April.
We should hear of another quake in the southern hemisphere around March 19-21 with the lunar perigee just ahead.
I am very concerned about southern California and have forecasted a major earthquake for the region into April. I’ve calculated that the epicenter will be about 23 miles south of Los Angeles, with a shallow 7.9 – 8.9 magnitude earthquake. It may be a long shaker, lasting as long as 4-5 minutes.
April 4-9 have strong ratings on my astro-scale for significant seismic activity.
I’ve issued a warning for California residents to initiate their emergency preparedness plans. There isn’t much time left before a major earthquake and aftershocks strike this region.
[Reply: Enough astrology. This is a science site. Maybe the folks at climate progress, realclimate or skeptical science would enjoy your astrology posts. Feel free to continue commenting on non-astrology topics. ~dbs, mod.]
[PS: I’ll reconsider if the specific predictions you made here happen as described.☺]

March 14, 2011 7:08 pm

Sure, like the ENSO I forecasted in advance, and the recent Japanese quake I forecasted using the same astrological science?
I’m curious, just how many times do I have to forecast the climate, weather and earthquakes accurately before you feel the need to deem it a ‘science?’

March 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Found a great blog with some of the most striking tsunami videos in one spot – http://extremeearth.wordpress.com/

TerryS
March 15, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Theodore
“I’m curious, just how many times do I have to forecast the climate, weather and earthquakes accurately before you feel the need to deem it a ‘science?’”

Fall 2010 – the season starts off with what “appears” to be another early Indian summer, but then Fall turns into a very wet, extended, and warmer-than-normal season w/ tropical air, torrential rains. This is going to be a longer-than-normal fall season that extends right into January 2011.
Winter 2011 – arrives late, not starting until early Feb. 2011, colder than normal, La Nina phase. Mid-winter conditions will exist through March, and winter conditions will persist into April 2011, making for a colder, and later than normal Spring of 2011.

Since you consider the above to be one of your accurate predictions of the weather it will take many such forecasts. In fact one of your accurate predictions would have to include the time and date of hell freezing over before those of us with a rational mind accept that the position of mercury could have any causal effect on earth beyond any infinitesimally small gravitational and electromagnetic effects.

March 15, 2011 3:25 pm

Terry,
For you to assume that you are the only way with a ‘rational mind’ is the height of egotism and ignorance. No group, no matter how much they presume, can dictate to others what is to be called “Science,’ and what is not.
We’ve just emerged from a period of time where anyone who said that humanity was not the cause of global warming was called ‘irrational,’ simply because they did not agree with anthropogenic global warming.
I also suggest that you include my entire forecast, since you did not. You have a bad habit of snipping comments and paragraphs to then try to attack others. That is what many of the GW crowd likes to do, so they can ‘dummy things down’ in order to push their ideology on others.
You will not be successful in bullying me, so do not even presume to try.
Discontinue your bad habit of snipping comments, then asking interrogator-tone questions, followed by your uninformed opinions.
That is not only intellectually dishonest Terry, also but rude and stupid.
If you want to make any kind of ‘rational’ argument, then do not lower the discussion, but raise it, so that an honest debate on science can ensure, rather surface-feeder snarky snark comments which are clear signs of personal dispositions, bias and ideological egotism.
Let’s get both oars in the water, shall we?

TerryS
March 15, 2011 6:18 pm

Theodore,
I do not assume I am the only “way” or even only one with a “rational mind” and my comments do not say or imply that either.
“I also suggest that you include my entire forecast, since you did not.”
I included the entire fall and winter sections of your forecast. Which relevant part did I miss out?
“Discontinue your bad habit of snipping comments, then asking interrogator-tone questions, followed by your uninformed opinions.”
Oops, snipped your comment again. Whats the problem with asking questions? Its how people learn. As for uninformed opinions, in case you haven’t noticed, this is the comment section of a blog. Its full of uninformed opinions, including mine. This is why I ask questions.
“That is not only intellectually dishonest Terry, also but rude and stupid.”
So far you have called me intellectually dishonest twice, ignorant, rude and stupid. Kindly desist from these unwarranted attacks.
“If you want to make any kind of ‘rational’ argument, then do not lower the discussion, but raise it,”
Hey, I’m not the one who’s name calling.
Here’s your chance to convert me:
Astrology makes the claim that the position of the planets has a causal effect on events and/or people and nations on Earth. It is basic science that in order for one object to influence another they must interact and there are four fundamental interactive forces. These are: gravitation, electromagnetism, strong nuclear and weak nuclear.
Now Mercury, for example, at its closest approach is approximately 80million km from Earth and weighs approximately 3.3E23 kg. This means it exerts a gravitational force of approximately 3.44E-09 Newtons on me. This is about the same gravitational force as my dog (3.2E-09) when it stands next to me.
Mercury’s magnetic field is only about 1% that of Earth so, given the distance, I am going to assume that the magnetic field generated by the electricity running through my mobile phone has more impact on me. I could dig out the equations (its an inverse squared relationship) and calculate it exactly but that would be a waste of time.
I also think its safe to discount strong and weak nuclear forces.
That means that none of the four fundamental forces can be responsible for any causal relationship between Mercury and events on Earth.
Now my question to you is this: What is the force that is responsible for any causal relationship between Mercury and events on Earth? I don’t mind if you postulate the existence of a fifth fundamental force but you should adequately describe how it fits into quantum theory, how it propagates and how it is detected and measured.

March 15, 2011 8:06 pm

First, Terry –
I seek to ‘convert’ no one. Think for yourself, but do not presuppose under the agies of bias what is a ‘science,’ and what is not. No one is qualified to take the term of ‘Science’ and define it so as to keep it only for themselves.
Those who do this deserve no respect, for Science is larger than any single person, group or organization. Ideology has no place in science. Anyone who claims to use the term ‘science’ to exclude that which they are ignorant of, or show bias toward, are not in practice of ‘science’ in the least – but only practices ignorance.
Science is about exploration and discovery. We learn by observation, study, objectivity. We do not learn simply inside the man-made lab, for you live in the largest laboratory there is – that of the Earth and the universe.
We call it ‘Nature.” It is here that you will find the answers to your questions.
As for Casual forces –
Astrological observations over the centuries based on celestial configurations and their correlations on life are earth are extensive. There are centuries-old texts of empirical data. You can easily find them online.
Here, you will find one of Isaac Newton’s mundane astrological science notebooks ->
http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/view/texts/normalized/NATP00001
You are incorrect to say that the ‘past’ of science is not valid, that only today is valid.
You are in serious error, for without the past efforts of others – the scientific disciplines people take for granted today would not exist.
The mistake many conventional thinkers make on astrology is that they bring up the distance of celestial bodies and gravity when no one says that astrological forces are based on gravity and distance alone. There are many influences on the Earth, the primary one are solar, then lunar, then planetary.
The Earth is NOT a single body apart from the solar system. The Earth is a member of the solar system, surrounded by magnetic and kinetic forces.
Moreover, you are in error when you use small numbers and percentages to determine effect as any physicist knows that the smallest causes can, and do bring about big effects.
The mundane astrologer Isaac Newton’s synthesis of the unification of celestial and terrestrial physics concludes that “the power of gravity … was not limited to a certain distance from the earth but that this power must extend much farther than was usually thought.”
From Newton’s Notebooks –
Systema Mundanum secundum Copernicum.
Make a circumference for the Zodiack divide it into 12 signes or {illeg} Place Sun symbol in the centre. Make the centre of the earth almost 4 of Sun symbols diametars from his centre towards the Earth Aphelion i.e. {two} degrees 2m 13sec towards Cancer’s 7th degree.
Make its orbe or circumference so wide as that the Sun’s diameter may be the 697th parte of it i.e. 31.min: Divide it into 365 equal p{arts} & let each parte stand for the Earth motion in one day 1 minute. or thus: Make the Earth symbol centre one degre 1min 6sec from the Sun’s.
Make the circumference as before: take a new center two degrees 2min 13sec from Sun symbol on the same side. make a circumference about it & divide it into 365 parts, drawing lines from each opposite marke through the same centre.
Then marke the places {on} the sphære of Earth symbol which those lines cut. & you have the Earths motion each day, & 1 min Make Mercuries centre 4degr 55min towar{ds} his Aphelion from the Sunn, Sun symbol being in Virgo symbol {illeg} i.e. Earth symbol being in Pisces symbol 15d.
Put the Earth in Aries symbol: {illeg} the centre of Mercury symbol is in Pisces symbol 25d: 6m; & the utmost parte of his sphære reacheth to the 7th d{eg} 11th min of Pisces symbol it being 22degr: 50m distant from his centre.
Divide it as you did the Earth’s in 88 parts by a circle whose centre is 9degr: 10m from Sun symbol toward his Aphelion (call this a divideing circle each part Mercury symbol passeth over in 23h. 59m.
Or thus. Make Sun symbol the centre of his circumference. make his circumference so large as {illeg}{illeg}. make him an Epicicle the diameter {be}ing 9 degres 50m.
Mercury symbol moves about his Epicicle {illeg} {illeg} 44 days {epicle} about Sun symbol in almost 88 days therefore {di}vide that circles into 88 parts & you have {his} motion each 23h 59min. divide his epicicle {in}to 44 parts & you have the like. but this will not solve the Phænomenon unles he be made to stand still in his Epicicle towards his Aphelion. & then the swiftnes of his motion in his Perihelion, & slownes Aphelion will not be solved.
Place Venus her centre about 20 or 30 min dist from the centre of Sun symbol. her diameter is 42deg from her centre. &c By a Degre I understand the 360th {parte} of the sphære or circumference of the earth.
Place the Moon 2deg 21min in her full & change from the earth.
Place the centre of Mars distant from Sun symbol 6d 46min towards Virgo 0d. 8′. 2” let his circumference be made 98deg distant from his centre. Marke a new centre 13degr: 32m: distant from Sun symbol towards his Aphelion in Virgine 0d. 8′. 2”. & let the circumference of it divide the Spæ{re} of Mars symbol into 687 parts each parte being the sp{hære}{illeg} of Mars symbol his motion in a day.
From another of Newton’s own notebooks –
Theorem 1
As ye difference twixt ye base & cath (in rectang: triang:) is to ye greater side:: so is ye difference of ye segm of ye base; to ye greater segmnt of ye base & perpendicular.
Theorem 2.
As ye difference twixt ye base & cathetus to ye less side:: so ye diff of ye segmts of ye base to ye lesse segment of ye base & perpendicular
Theore 3d.
base – Cathetus: hypotenusa:: :: greater seg: base – less seg base : base + Cathetus.
Theor. 4.
If wthin a circle be in|de|scribed an Ellipsis touching ye Circle in 2 opposite points if ye Diameter cut \it/ at right angle in any points except ye touch point yn a line drawn fm either touch point perpendicular to ye former diameter will bisect it & being produced will cut ye Sun symbol in ye other touch point & all ye lines drawne twixt ye Sun symbol & yt line parallell to yt diameter shall be dided {sic} by ye Ellipsis so as one segment {illeg}|sh|all bee to ye other as ye segments of ye semidiameter are to one another they being divided by ye same Ellip: let ab bee equall to 10 pts. eb = 157979 = Periph: & priph – Rad: Rad:: Rad: db. db = 175, 1938394. de = 18,1142067.
To describe an Ellipsis –
Let fe & gc be two lines ef make righ {sic} angles wth gc. let a point be taken in bd as at a & let yt point move along ye line gc. & d ye one end of ye line db move on ye line ef & ye other end b shall describe ye Ellipsi{illeg}|s| gbc. f.
Let c & a b {sic} two fixed points about wch let a loose cord be put haveing both ends tyed together. as is signified by ye 3 lines cb. ba. ac. Strech it out wth another point as b. & keeping it so streched out draw ye point b about & it shall describe ye Ellipsis bd. Chartesij Dioptr
Let ye line ae be infinitely extended in it take ye point o about ye line oc shall turne at ye point c in oc let ye \point c in ye/ line ab be fastened {illeg}|&| yn let a ye end of ye line ab move on ye line ae & oc turning round, each point of ye line ab betwixt ac will describe an Ellipsis whose transvers axis is equall to oc & parallell to ae but each point on ye other side c describes Ellipsis whose righ {sic} axis is equall to oc & parallell to ae
Extend de both ways take ye lines ca & ab ab equall to one another fasten together at one end as at a. set ye other end of ca at ye point c in db. & let ye other end of ab slide on db. yn take a point in ab as o & turne ac about & it shall describe ye ellipsis dgoe Shooten in lib. 2d Cartesij Geometria:
Cut ye cone abc so ye {sic} ye diam of ye section ed produced cute ye base of ye triangle ac produced wthout ye cone as at r & makes right angles wth gh ye base of ye sectio
If eg be moved twixt ye lines ed & gd. a point in it as (θ) shall describe an ellipsis whose semi-axis ad is equall to bd & semiaxis dc = eb
If dc revolve abute ye center d. & to ye other end b be fastend a triangle bca & db = ba = bc & ye angle a moves on ye line ad ye other end c will describe ye streigh {sic} line cd & ye angle cba = 2cd{illeg}|a| & a point in ye line (ca) as (e) shall describe an Ellipsis ehg whose diam 2dh =2dg = 2ec & ye other diameter conjugated to it is od & od = 4db x db – ec x ec – 2 ec x ea for op = ec. oq = ea. dp = 2db.
& if in ye line bc be taken a point as s, it shall describe an ellipsis ye one diam: being 2ab + 2bs, ye other diam = 2cs.
If o & a be ye foci & cp = oa & ca = op = it theire section in s shall describe an ellipsis
If ab = bc = ci = ai = if or greater yn (if) & bh = fp & ac bisects ye angles bai. bci. yn if bh turne round ye intersections of bh & ac shall describ{e} an Ellipsis. & hi & i are ye foci.
To describe a Parabola –
Let bc fall perpendicular on ad & let c ye one end there of move perpendicular uppon ad a given line & if bc x k a given line be equall to ac x cd yn shall b ye other end of bc describe ye Parabola afd.
Draw ah perpendicu{lar} to ap. & ab from ah parallell to ap divid{e} bh into equall pts {illeg}|as| bcdefgh. & divide ap into parts equall to ye former as iklmnop. draw lines cros to each part of ye lines ah & ap as cb. kc. ld. me. nf. &c wth half of each line descri{bing} a circle as brc wth 12 cb. from bu in ye poi{nt} cut by ye diameters of ye {illeg} circle draw lines perpendicular to ye diameter untill they reach ye circle from whose diameter they are drawne {illeg}|as| ye lines pw, qx, ry, sz, t&, u+.
Erect those lines perpendicular to ye line bu as pTaurus symbol, qAries symbol, rGemini symbol, sCancer symbol, tLeo symbol, uVirgo symbol. & by ye end of those lines draw a line & it shall be a parabola . a{illeg}|s| bTaurus symbolAries symbolGemini symbolCancer symbolLeo symbol
If abc be a cone: de (ye diameter of ye Section fgd) parallell to ac: & fg (ye base there{illeg}|of|) cutting bc at right angles yn is ye section dfg a Parab
Make db perpendicular to ef on ye center b let ye right angled figure pbgh turne. Let gh move perpendicularly on ef ever intersecting ef & bh in one point yn pbgh moveing rownd ye intersections made twixt pg gh describe ye parabola qbg.
If ab = bd = do = ao is greater then ac & ac = cs ye corner (a) fasten{ed} to ye focus (a) . & ye line de fastened to ye corner d & moveing perpendicularly on|{r}| on sd & ye line boe crossing ye corners b & o. yn ye line boe & de at theire intersections shall describe a Parab & ye line boe always toucheth ye Parabola in (e) &c
If (d) be ye focus od = oe ye ruler fc = to ye thred fad & thred fastened to ye ruler at f & to ye focus d & ye ruler move perpendic to ce & parallell to de. yn ye parteing of ye thred from ye ruler as at (a) shall describe a Parabola.
To describe an Hyperbole –
Let fa fall on ag suppose at right angles let one en{illeg}|d| of ye line lg move up {illeg}|&| downe in ye line fa & towards ye other end let it cut ye line ga in g. let mp keepe parrallel to df haveing one end p moveing in ye line fa but yet keeping an equall distance fro l ye i|e|nd of gl. yt is let ye triangle npl be immutable. let yn ye lines mp & gl thus move to & fro & theire intersections shall describe an parabola Hyperbola. & ye rectangle mad de x e de x ea = ic x cb = qo x op. Cartes Geom:
ffasten a pegg as at a & another as at b upon wch let ye line de be turned at ye pin a fasten one end of a cord & ye other at e ye end of ye line de. yn streching ye cord from a & e wth ye pin c turne de about & ye pin c will slip towards e & describe 12 ye Hyper: oce
{If} the rectangle twixt ad & db is equall to ye rectangle twixt ae & ec {illeg}|{so}| yt each point c in ye Hyperb: bc is found by makeing ec = ad x dbae or ae = ad x dbec. also be x ce = be x da – db x ec
Cut ye cone abc so yt ye diater {sic} of ye section er produced cuteth one side of ye Cone bc produced as at d. ye base thereof gh cutteth ac ye base of ye triang: abc a {sic} right angles.
If (of) touch ye Hyperb: & (as) be it{illeg}|s| transverse diam: & (gb) keepe parallel to (eo) & (cag) aways pass through (a). ye vertex of ye parab Hyperb. & (bc) be always in ye line (fh) fastend to (gb) & equall to fd = de = fh4. yn ye lines (agc) & (gb) moveing by theire intersection shall describe an Hyperbola whose asymtotes are oea, fe; eb, eb, & wx is a right line conjugate to ye transverse diameter (as.) viz: it is ye right diameter
If dk = er be (latus transversum) & de = kr, be latus rectum yn shall is sd = sr = se = sk = sa = sx. at (a) & (x) faten {sic} 2 pins on wch let ye (acbp, xobq) revolve, & if ac = ox = zi = dk = er, & co = ax yn ye intersection of ye lines cabp, & qbox (when they move) shall describe a |Hyperb| Parabola whose focus is a, & ye opposite Hyperbola (whose focus is x is described {illeg}|by| ye same lines after qbox, esk & cabp are parallell
If de = dc = ex = cx is not lesse yn ix = az & 2 of theire ends loose pind together at (e) & 2 at (c) on wch 2 corners lyes ye line (coe) two of ye theire ends are loosely pinnd on ye focus (x) ye last two are pind on ye line (adp) at (d) soe yt ye ruler adp being pine|n|d to ye focus (a), ad = zi yn ye intersections of ye lines (adp, coe) describe ye Hyperbola oiq. & after they are parallell they shall describe ye opposite Hyperbola hzk.
The Asymptotes aq, an, & (m) point y|i|n ye Hyperbola draw mq || an. & mn || aq. Then draw en at a venture & make er = {illeg} \mc/ || er & r shall bee a point in ye Hyperbola
If ye position of ye Asymptotes (ad) (ab) bee given & any point as (c) in ye Hyperbola. then draw {cbfu}{illeg} ucbf || ad. ud || ab || fg making bf = bu = 4bc. Then at a venter draw bewh, through ye point b. & make ak = fh = uw Or dw = bk & from ye point k draw ke, wch shall touch ye Hyperpola {sic}. in n, if kn = ne.
The foci \(a, d)/ & (c) a point in one Hyerbo{la} given to describe them.
Draw ac, cd, fro the given point c to the foci, yn upo the center c wth any radius ce describe ye circle erf. soe yt ec = ef. yn wth ye Rad ae & df upon ye centers a & d describe ye circles hep fhp their points of intersection p, h, shall bee in ye hyperbola. The intermediate distance twixt divers points thus found may bee completed wth by ye helpe of tangnt lines or circles or a steady hand.
The observation of celestial inclinations (astrophysical) to those on Earth (geophysical) connected physical events with mathematics, angles, light, sound (music of the spheres) electromagnetism and gravity. These are the kinds of calculations I apply in forecasting via astrological means.
This is clearly seen in the works of the mundane astrologers Ptolemy, Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo, among others. This reached its fuller expression in Newton’s dynamics.
The Universal Gravitation Law & The Planetary Laws Of Motions discovered by these astrologers, along with the three laws of motion and the calculus, formed a complete Newtonian approach to quantifying and calculating the motion, inclinations and effects of everything from the smallest atom to the largest planet. Telsa and Einstein based their work on all this and took it yet to another level.
So let’s not diss the ‘past of science’ – astrological or not – so easily, shall we?

TerryS
March 16, 2011 1:06 am

> I seek to ‘convert’ no one. Think for yourself, but do not presuppose under
> the agies of bias what is a ‘science,’ and what is not. No one is
> qualified to take the term of ‘Science’ and define it so as to keep it
> only for themselves.
And at no point have I attempted to define the term ‘Science’ and keep it for myself. It is already well defined.
> Those who do this deserve no respect, for Science is larger than any single
> person, group or organization. Ideology has no place in science. Anyone
> who claims to use the term ‘science’ to exclude that which they are
> ignorant of, or show bias toward, are not in practice of ‘science’ in the
> least – but only practices ignorance.
I am excluding astrology from science, not through ignorance, but through knowledge. I doubt you would find any scientists who would include it.
>
> As for Casual forces –
>
> [snipped bits unrelated to causal forces]
>
> The mistake many conventional thinkers make on astrology is that they bring
> up the distance of celestial bodies and gravity when no one says that
> astrological forces are based on gravity and distance alone. There are
> many influences on the Earth, the primary one are solar, then lunar, then
> planetary.
You are claiming here that the sun, moon and planets have an impact outside of the 4 interactive forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, weak and strong nuclear). You are in fact claiming that the sun, moon and planets are a force within themselves. Now we are getting somewhere.
How are these forces measured? How do they propagate, is it via photons, gluons, bosons, gravitons or some other elementary particle? Does this force preserve parity or is it asymmetric? Does its magnitude follow an inverse square relationship with distance? Is the speed of propagation constant through all mediums? Can it be diffracted, reflected or generated? etc. These are basic questions which should have answers.
> Moreover, you are in error when you use small numbers and percentages to
> determine effect as any physicist knows that the smallest causes can, and
> do bring about big effects.
Err, the calculations are correct. That is part of what scientists do. They do not just say “Mercury will cause you to move to the left today” they calculate the gravitational effect and say “Mercury’s gravitational effect on you is so small today that we can not distinguish its effect from that of a small dog.”.
> [much irrelevant detail on how to draw an astrological chart deleted]
As I’ve said before. It does not matter that astrology was considered a science in past centuries. It does not matter who practiced it. It does not matter what its practitioners discovered. Modern science does not consider it to be a science. If you wish to change that then you have to do more than say “It was in the past” or “Isaac Newton studied it and here are his notebooks”. You need to quantify the forces you are postulating exist.

March 16, 2011 3:09 am


[snip . . this is a science blog. If and when Anthony decides that other disciplines belong here he will let us know.]

March 16, 2011 5:58 pm

Have no problem with that, but if you are to continue to remind us of this, then I suggest you do the same with Terry, who keeps bringing up astrology.
If I am to respond, then I suggest moderator also remind her as well until whomever deems what is a ‘science’ and what is not a ‘science’ is able to descend from the heavens to correct us all on the matter.

the clown of destruction
March 22, 2011 6:29 pm

i hope you see the way of the clowns and the divine way we live all hail reznov and the illusion that is ur face
OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM AND THE PROPHET GOD MASON WITH ADVISOR HUDSON

the clown of destruction
March 22, 2011 7:48 pm

im sorry guys about that my thoughts on the japanese disaster are that this is to be expected on a country in that geographical position and in a country so prone to disaster they should not be allowed nuclear power plants i hope you agree with this more than the last comment and come on terry lighten up

the clown of destruction
March 22, 2011 7:52 pm

to the large amount of people in the affected areas i send my condolences to you sincerely i do

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