Missing sunspots solved by NASA?

News from NASA that they believe they have solved the mystery of the missing sunspots and why the solar minimum was so prolonged:

Researchers Crack the Mystery of the Missing Sunspots

March 2, 2011: In 2008-2009, sunspots almost completely disappeared for two years. Solar activity dropped to hundred-year lows; Earth’s upper atmosphere cooled and collapsed; the sun’s magnetic field weakened, allowing cosmic rays to penetrate the Solar System in record numbers. It was a big event, and solar physicists openly wondered, where have all the sunspots gone?

Now they know. An answer is being published in the March 3rd edition of Nature.

In this artistic cutaway view of the sun, the Great Conveyor Belt appears as a set of black loops connecting the stellar surface to the interior. Credit: Andrés Muñoz-Jaramillo of the Harvard CfA
In this artistic cutaway view of the sun, the Great Conveyor Belt appears as a set of black loops connecting the stellar surface to the interior. Credit: Andrés Muñoz-Jaramillo of the Harvard CfA

“Plasma currents deep inside the sun interfered with the formation of sunspots and prolonged solar minimum,” says lead author Dibyendu Nandi of the Indian Institute of Science Education and Research in Kolkata. “Our conclusions are based on a new computer model of the sun’s interior.”

For years, solar physicists have recognized the importance of the sun’s “Great Conveyor Belt.” A vast system of plasma currents called ‘meridional flows’ (akin to ocean currents on Earth) travel along the sun’s surface, plunge inward around the poles, and pop up again near the sun’s equator. These looping currents play a key role in the 11-year solar cycle. When sunspots begin to decay, surface currents sweep up their magnetic remains and pull them down inside the star; 300,000 km below the surface, the sun’s magnetic dynamo amplifies the decaying magnetic fields. Re-animated sunspots become buoyant and bob up to the surface like a cork in water—voila! A new solar cycle is born.

For the first time, Nandi’s team believes they have developed a computer model that gets the physics right for all three aspects of this process–the magnetic dynamo, the conveyor belt, and the buoyant evolution of sunspot magnetic fields.

OK. Plenty of belief here, but does it have predictive power?

“According to our model, the trouble with sunspots actually began in back in the late 1990s during the upswing of Solar Cycle 23,” says co-author Andrés Muñoz-Jaramillo of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. “At that time, the conveyor belt sped up.”

Sunspot cycles over the last century. The blue curve shows the cyclic variation in the number of sunspots. Red bars show the cumulative number of sunspot-less days. The minimum of sunspot cycle 23 was the longest in the space age with the largest number of spotless days. Credit: Dibyendu Nandi et al.

The fast-moving belt rapidly dragged sunspot corpses down to sun’s inner dynamo for amplification. At first glance, this might seem to boost sunspot production, but no. When the remains of old sunspots reached the dynamo, they rode the belt through the amplification zone too hastily for full re-animation. Sunspot production was stunted.

Later, in the 2000s, according to the model, the Conveyor Belt slowed down again, allowing magnetic fields to spend more time in the amplification zone, but the damage was already done. New sunspots were in short supply. Adding insult to injury, the slow moving belt did little to assist re-animated sunspots on their journey back to the surface, delaying the onset of Solar Cycle 24.

“The stage was set for the deepest solar minimum in a century,” says co-author Petrus Martens of the Montana State University Department of Physics.

OK. Plenty of belief. Does it have predictive power?

Colleagues and supporters of the team are calling the new model a significant advance.

“Understanding and predicting solar minimum is something we’ve never been able to do before—and it turns out to be very important,” says Lika Guhathakurta of NASA’s Heliophysics Division in Washington, DC.

OK. Colleagues think its wonderful. But…

Nandi notes that their new computer model explained not only the absence of sunspots but also the sun’s weakened magnetic field in 08-09. “It’s confirmation that we’re on the right track.”

I’m pleased for you. Now about the future…

Next step: NASA’s Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) can measure the motions of the sun’s conveyor belt—not just on the surface but deep inside, too. The technique is called helioseismology; it reveals the sun’s interior in much the same way that an ultrasound works on a pregnant woman. By plugging SDO’s high-quality data into the computer model, the researchers might be able to predict how future solar minima will unfold. SDO is just getting started, however, so forecasts will have to wait.

Indeed, much work remains to be done, but, says Guhathakurta, “finally, we may be cracking the mystery of the spotless sun.”

I worry about this sort of science (or at least, this sort of scientific publishing). They claim they can explain the past, but they have no idea if their model has any predictive power.

Before the last solar minimum there were plenty of different models that all explained the past but had zero predictive power about the solar minimum. Has this salutary experience been forgotten already at NASA? I’m sure David Hathaway could tell them all about it.

I was going to title this post “NASA suffers from premature exultation” but I thought better of it. This team could be right, but frankly there’s no way to know unless they can make a reasonable forecast.

All of which puts all of this at slightly above the level of reading tea-leaves. But its in Nature, so it’s like hitting a home run in the World Series of science. That’s the important part, clearly.

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Malaga View
March 6, 2011 3:04 am

tallbloke says: March 6, 2011 at 2:47 am
Science is about testing ideas not defining the legitimacy of the people who have them.

Very true….. well said.

Pascvaks
March 6, 2011 3:33 am

Ref – Pascvaks says:
March 5, 2011 at 7:52 am
Ref – Leif Svalgaard says:
March 4, 2011 at 12:52 pm
steven mosher says:
March 4, 2011 at 12:28 pm
“what exactly is the POINT of personalizing this by trying to figure out whether Dr. S is pleased or not?”
It is clearly easier [and somewhat demeaning of the perpetrators] to engage in personal attacks than in the science. Better filtering of such is one way you could improve WUWT.
_________
I don’t think it’s possible to really tweek WUWT much more than it is currently managed/monitored without changing it and turning it into something very different than it is. The “Best Science Blog Award” speaks to how well it’s currently operating. But… Anthony & Co. might consider something along these lines: A Special Debate Blog Item for “Select” Commenters Only (maybe just 2 –debates get confusing if there’s more than 2 people talking about something; the rest of us could ‘read along’ but not ‘participate’ with tomatoes and rotten fruit). Well, it might be worth a shot. Anyway, $.02 from the peanut gallery.
PS: After a little more thought about my suggestion I’d like to add another $.02 –
Once the ‘Back-and-Forth’ between the “Select” Commenters Only folks has pretty much ended it would be nice if the MOD would draw a line and open the comments up to all comers.
[Reply – always glad to have suggestions for Anthony to mull over, and this is an interesting one, although I think the way it would be intended to work and how it would actually work in reality would be quite different.
1. WordPress limitations – I think the choices are between public/private/passwordprotected posts and comments on/comments off. In theory you could have a private post then debate between two people then publish the post and the comments and open up to others.
2. A live debate that only two people could engage in would be interesting (although technically ??? see 1), however if no-one else could comment I reckon chaos would ensue (frustrated commenters commenting on every other thread) and as a moderator I wouldn’t want to be trying to keep order ~jove, mod]

tallbloke
March 6, 2011 4:17 am

It’s easy enough to do an inpage search for the protagonist of your choice and see what they have to say on a given subject, plus the responses of others to them. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it with proposals which will only lead to acrimony about exclusivity. On a recent thread, Willis Eschenbach said:
I’d miss tallboy and some others if they didn’t come forth, but I suspect that the signal-to-noise ratio would improve greatly.
Who sits in judgment concerning what represents noise and what represents signal?
Popular vote? We tried the vote for comments idea. Didn’t last long.
Executive decision by a dinner committee consisting of Anthony, Willis, Mosh, and Leif?
I say allow ideas to mingle. If you want to disseminate a limited set of views, start another blog, and turn off the comments.

Pascvaks
March 6, 2011 4:46 am

Well, it only cost $.04 and that ain’t much today. Leif’s comment struck a chord and it seemed like a way to initially cut down on noise and background radiation while the BIG GUNS were fencing with each other. Also wanted to say the current method is fine for 99% of the WUWT content –You ARE The Best!!!;-)

March 6, 2011 8:21 am

tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 2:47 am
Science is about testing ideas not defining the legitimacy of the people who have them.
Who throw away good data based on political considerations and denigration of an eminent scientist.
vukcevic says:
March 5, 2011 at 2:45 pm
1. You came up with an equation which was portion of a parabola, the most ridiculous suggestion one could say.
Any other function would do, e.g. a long-period sine. In numerology anything goes.
4.link you quoted has no data shown prior to 1967. I am happy with Mount Wilson data since 1967 as they are, and they correlate well.
But throws away data from Crimea even though they fit MWO well. Page 4 of http://www.leif.org/research/Polar%20Fields%20and%20Cycle%2024.pdf shows a Crimean magnetogram [from their large collection], with no trace of organized polar fields.
you are no closer in your futile effort to demolish the formula, clearly you have failed again.
It is, indeed, futile to argue with you as you ignore any counter-evidence. E.g. that your formula predicts the wrong sign for the polar fields before 1900.
tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 2:47 am
You clearly don’t understand the difference between explanation and quantification.
It is all about quantification. If the energy [quantification] is not large enough, the explanation doesn’t matter.
And there is no mechanism in the potential energy parameter. I hold a cup of coffee in my hand now. It is getting cold. Ah, I can go upstairs where the coffee will have more potential energy and hope it will warm up. Damn, it didn’t.

March 6, 2011 9:07 am

tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 2:47 am
Anyway, it’s not like you have a successful and irrefutable conceptually complete and fully quantified solar model to offer as a superior possibility is it?
It is not hard to be superior to your non-mechanism, Leighton’s original paper http://www.leif.org/EOS/Leighton-1969.pdf will do just fine. It has not been refuted in the more than 40 years since and is still the basis for all serious mechanisms of the solar cycle. Even you need another mechanism [than the planets] to generate the spots.

March 6, 2011 10:27 am

Leif Svalgaard says: March 6, 2011 at 9:07 am
Leighton’s original paper will do just fine.
Original Babcock – Lighton model with differential rotation as the cause was on the right track. If differential rotation and electric currents are put together than it is easy to show that formation, growth and disintegration of sunspots is a relatively simple process, as I demonstrate here:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/SSG1.htm
However, role of electric currents is a taboo in the solar context.

March 6, 2011 10:50 am

vukcevic says:
March 6, 2011 at 10:27 am
However, role of electric currents is a taboo in the solar context.
Not so, your problem is that you put the cart before the horse. Electric currents in astrophysical contexts are the results of plasma moving with respect to magnetic fields, so the problem is to understand the plasma flows and the magnetic field, from those the electric currents follow. Almost all energetic phenomena [with the exception of those caused by gravity] in the universe are due to electric currents, so the role of these are not taboo. Before you pontificate, better know a little about what you pontificating on.

tallbloke
March 6, 2011 11:23 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
March 6, 2011 at 8:21 am (Edit)
tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 2:47 am
Science is about testing ideas not defining the legitimacy of the people who have them.
Who throw away good data based on political considerations and denigration of an eminent scientist.

You are the worst offender for this. Tu Quoque.
It is, indeed, futile to argue with you as you ignore any counter-evidence. E.g. that your formula predicts the wrong sign for the polar fields before 1900.
Vuk’s formula has been working well for years. Who knows when the Sun will throw a wobbler and reverse its phasing. Learn about bipolar oscillators and do some thinking.

March 6, 2011 11:35 am

Kenneth H. Schatten on solar magnetic field: ” Like sign attract, and unlike fields repel, essentially the opposite behaviour of magnetic fields in a vacuum, or subadiabatic atmosphere.”
http://www.leif.org/research/Percolation%20and%20the%20Solar%20Dynamo.pdf
page 3/17, chapter 2. EPHEMERAL REGIONS AND PERCOLATION (doc. page 139)
You and your esteemed colleague live in a different universe.
I am not sure about that I’ve ” put the cart before the horse”, but I do hope that any sensible traveller in the Schatten-Svalgaard solar cart had jumped off already:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/SSC.jpg

March 6, 2011 11:51 am

tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 11:23 am
You are the worst offender for this. Tu Quoque.
As predicted, your insult-free discussions didn’t last long.
Who knows when the Sun will throw a wobbler and reverse its phasing.
There is data that shows what the phase of the polar fields was in the 19th century

March 6, 2011 12:06 pm

vukcevic says:
March 6, 2011 at 11:35 am
You and your esteemed colleague live in a different universe.
Before pontificating, take the trouble to learn about what you are trying to pontificate about. The behavior of magnetic fields in the solar atmosphere is determined by the movements of the plasma, not by how magnets behave in vacuum. To quote Schatten in full [rather than your cherry-picked sentence out of its context] “. Following Parker’s (1984) work, where convective elements isolate magnetic field by lowering the convective flow energy, his process suggests to us, that in a superadiabatic ionized atmosphere, magnetic fields of like sign attract, and unlike fields repel, essentially the opposite behavior of magnetic fields in a vacuum, or subadiabatic atmosphere. Thus our model invokes a stickiness to the same sign (same sign radial component) magnetic fields in the photosphere. This stickiness or percolation thrives from lowering the free energy in the presence of convective or superadiabatic energy transport. Thus, the percolation process allows the Sun to shed its luminosity more efficiently (than a totally unmagnetized, convecting atmosphere) by having flow transport energy in uni-directed (up-down) flows rather than convective bubbles that ‘‘break’’ in small distances, comparable to the atmospheric scale-height”
In addition the percolation process is directly observed [sunspots grows by the accumulation of smaller pores of same sign].

March 6, 2011 12:11 pm

tallbloke says:
March 6, 2011 at 11:23 am
Vuk’s formula has been working well for years. Who knows when the Sun will throw a wobbler and reverse its phasing. Learn about bipolar oscillators and do some thinking.
My electro-magnetic model of the sun’s polar field is very simple:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/SEMc.gif
It does not require Schatten’s extraordinary ‘antimatter universe ’ magnetic field laws where ” Like sign attract, and unlike fields repel’

March 6, 2011 12:26 pm

vukcevic says:
March 6, 2011 at 11:35 am
You and your esteemed colleague live in a different universe.
Perhaps a more accessible version of Schatten’s ideas is this one:
http://www.leif.org/research/Modeling%20a%20Shallow%20Solar%20Dynamo.pdf
Report back on sections you do not understand, so I can guide you to enlightenment.

March 6, 2011 12:55 pm

vukcevic says:
March 6, 2011 at 12:11 pm
My electro-magnetic model of the sun’s polar field is very simple:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/SEMc.gif

But unfortunately in discord with observations, so must be rejected.

rbateman
March 6, 2011 12:57 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
March 6, 2011 at 12:26 pm
On your latest http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-SORCE-2008-now.png image you have “Welcome to solar max” next to the F10.7 line. Care to say anything further on this?

March 6, 2011 1:24 pm

rbateman says:
March 6, 2011 at 12:57 pm
On your latest http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-SORCE-2008-now.png image you have “Welcome to solar max” next to the F10.7 line. Care to say anything further on this?
Well, it hardly looks like a Grand Minimum 🙂
There is a fair amount of activity, so the Sun is out of the minimum phase. If this much activity is still only in the ascending phase, then maximum will be rather higher [not what we would expect fro the polar fields during the past minimum]. The polar fields at the North pole have already reversed, and the South polar fields have decreased considerably. The reversal is ‘usually’ [but has only been observed for about eight cycles] timed near maximum. So, these things together seem to justify a ‘welcome’ [although the maximum might be a protracted affair like in cycle 14 with wild swings up and down]. Since after the reversal there ‘usually’ are several more ‘surges’ of new polarity flux arriving in the polar caps, there is the possibility that the polar fields might build to be stronger’ than at the recent minimum, leading to the prediction that solar cycle 25 might not be an extremely low cycle, but of moderate size [a tad larger than SC24], a la cycle 15 after 14. This is, of course, only [well-founded] speculation, but makes life interesting.

rbateman
March 6, 2011 6:16 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
March 6, 2011 at 1:24 pm
It certainly does make life more interesting (being based upon observation), speculative or not.
The egg is perched on the roof peak.

Roger Carr
March 7, 2011 2:10 am

rbateman says: The egg is perched on the roof peak.
Perched?
It’s been there for nearly 24 hours now. No wind (shame for the turbines.)? Not even a solar wind? Are you sure you didn’t glue it there?

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