Carbon Trading: on in Australia, off in New Hampshire

Julia Gillard Picture
PM Julia Gillard - Image via Wikipedia

Australia appears to be ready to run down the Carbon Rabbit Hole, from the WUWT Tips and Notes page

Richard says:

A PRICE is set to be put on carbon from July 1, 2012, under a deal announced today by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

Ms Gillard has announced a two-stage process for pricing carbon, which will start with a fixed price period for three to five years and then shift to an emissions trading scheme with a “flexible” price linked to international carbon markets.

Ms Gillard said that the new deal would be the “cheapest and fairest way to cut pollution and build clean energy economies”.

She said she didn’t believe Australia needed to lead the world on the matter, but added it couldn’t be left behind.

Ms Gillard said she anticipated that the Opposition would “launch a fear campaign” on a “great big new tax”, but said she would “not take a step back” on the issue.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/pm-to-set-price-on-carbon-from-july-1-2012/story-e6freon6-1226011295526

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pat says:

The quickest “consensus” evah! and all in the name of “climate change” with never a mention of AGW:

24 Feb: ABC: Gillard to lay out carbon price policy

In the aftermath of last year’s election, Ms Gillard established a multi-party climate change committee to build consensus on what form a carbon price should take.

The ABC understands the committee has now come to an agreement and Ms Gillard will reveal more details at 11:30am AEDT…

The Government abandoned its previous emissions trading scheme last year after it failed to get it through the Senate.

This backdown is widely believed to have led to former prime minister Kevin Rudd’s slide in the polls, and his eventual sacking…

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/24/3147523.htm?section=justin

fyi, the former PM’s sacking is not “widely believed” to have been sacked over his failure to get an ETS through; in fact, the Opposition leader at the time, Malcolm Turnbull, lost his job for backing such a scheme. also note no member of the main Opposition party sat on the “multi-party” committee, and the Opposition is leading the incumbent party in the polls at present. our present Prime Minister promised there would be no carbon price if she was voted in and changed her mind the second she got in. plus the following is from just six days ago!

18 Feb: ABC: Carbon price deal is months away

The Government’s multi-party climate change committee, which is chaired by Prime Minister Julia Gillard and includes the Greens and independent MPs, held its fourth meeting in Canberra this morning.

Ms Gillard and Climate Change Minister Greg Combet were widely expected to unveil their preferred model after the meeting.

But the committee says no final decisions have been taken on how to price carbon or what assistance will be offered to industry and taxpayers.

It says the final design of the carbon price will only be decided when all the elements of the policy can be considered together, and that should happen in the coming months.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/18/3142797.htm?section=justin

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Ric Werme writes about New Hampshire:

The New Hampshire House has passed a bill that would have NH withdraw from the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, RGGI. Next step is Senate (maybe a stop at a Finance committee, and then the Governor. He may well veto it, but the house passed it 246 to 104. The senate will like pass it by a veto proof majority too.

All in all, looking promising!

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/23/new-hampshire-smacks-down-cap-and-trade/

RGGI was supposed to segue directly into a national cap-and-trade system, and was designed by Lisa Jackson, now EPA administrator, when she ran New Jersey’s Department of Environmental Protection. The pitch to industry was that they could get a head start on buying cap-and-trade permits for two or three dollars each, and make a fortune when a federal bill passed with permit prices ten times that or higher. Now that a federal bill is dead, RGGI is a lose-lose for everyone except the politicians who get to spend the money and the special interests receiving subsidies.

The overwhelming veto-proof, bipartisan vote today means that New Hampshire is now on a path to doing something that looked impossible just a couple years ago — repeal a cap-and-trade program. In the process, it could deal the death blow to cap and trade both regionally and nationally.

While RGGI can survive the loss of a small state like New Hampshire, it could probably not survive the loss of a large state like New Jersey, where a repeal effort is picking up steam fast, with at least 37 co-sponsors.

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AusieDan
February 24, 2011 3:40 pm

Hi all – it’s time for a lesson on Australian politics.
Kevin Rudd was our previous prime minister, who was disposed by his own party.
Kevin was a conviction politican.
Julia Gillard replace him, so reluctantly.
She is a pragmatic politican.
She is nominally far left wing, but practices the politics of the hard right Labor machine.
Their slogan, their policy, and their faith is always the same.
“whatever it takes”.
Say no more!
Julia promised not to introduce a carbon tax in order to get elected.
She failed to achieve a majority and had to partner with the Greens.
They demanded a tax on carbon.
She has now promised to levy a tax on carbon.
She s 100% focused on winning the next election.
She is focused 100% on winning the next vote in parliament.
She is focused 100% on not getting disposed, before she goes to sleep tonight.
Tomorrow is another day which comes with its own set of challanges.
Julia is determined to give just enough to keep the support of the Greens and the independents.
The hard men of her party know how destructive a tax on carbon will be.
That’s why julia is determined to tax as little as necessary to keep in power.
Now my friends overseas, I hope you begining to see how politics work in our present government.
Later on, I may tell you how the opposition work,
But that’s enough for you to digest in one meal, I would think.
It’s not about carbon dioxide, the climate or the well being of the universe.
“It’s the politics, stupid” as a former USA president once did not say.

AusieDan
February 24, 2011 3:56 pm

I should have included a note about we Australians.
We are not stupid.
We are a very pragatic lot.
We understand that politicans are only human,
and that they, like the rest of us, are very fallable.
We vote for which ever lot is seen as the least worst bunch.
That’s why we got an unstable parliament, last time, with no major party able to rule in their own right.
Ops!
We must have been thinking about something else when we voted last time.
Public opinion polls are showing opposition now leading the government 54% to 46%.
Perhaps we are now playing closer attention.
The next election is not due for several more years, unless the present parliament becomes completely unworkable.
Here’s hoping!
(But not expecting over much).

Adny G
February 24, 2011 4:42 pm

I used to think Abbott was a slimy, evil, piece of work……. no change there.
But I now think Gillard is probably even worse !!!

Bulldust
February 24, 2011 4:43 pm

This is the Premier (Juliar as she is being called in the press) on radio with hard hitting Alan Jones:
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8186
This is the same person that rushed to the election polls last year shouting there would be no tax on carbon under her leadership.
Politicians lie… I know this will be a shock to some of you…. (does this really need a a /sarc?)

old44
February 24, 2011 6:44 pm

Mike Haseler says:
February 24, 2011 at 12:12 am
Do Australians: always arrive at the party ready to start partying after it is over?
Which century are they living in?
Don’t laugh too early sunshine, the election campaign of Barack Obama had a strange parallelism to the election of Kevin Rudd and look how that turned out.
For your further amusement watch 2010 Election promise on

followed by radio interviews with Neil Mitchell on 3AW and Alan Jones on 2GB
this may give you an idea of the direction you are heading.

Furious Cam (Melb, Australia)
February 24, 2011 6:47 pm

Nothing to do with climate. Its for two reasons….
1) paying off the Greens and a couple of ‘loving my 15 minutes of fame’ independent members;
2) A cash grab.
This Government has spent more on a per capita basis than any ‘developed nation’ since the GFC. Sure, Australia technically avoided recession (a booming minerals industry would have something to say about that), but it came at an incredulous cost.
From having one of the largest per capita surpluses in the world in 2007 to having a massive debt (some $90Billion) just over 3 years later. Tens of billions wasted on unwanted buildings, a home insulation scheme disaster, green loan schemes, even cash cheques to voters in the mail! (yes I kid you not!!)
The opposition Coalition are way ahead on ‘economic management’ in perception and the polls. So the Government desparate to bridge the gap there, is having to find as much cash as possible, and quickly, to get the debt down. This is why we had that nonsensical proposal to tax mining companies profits double any other sector, and nearly double that of Canadian mining companies, which would have crippled the nation’s #1 industry.
This Government is addicted to spending. And a spending addiction is financed through debt. Debt is poison to the re-election chances of this Government (as in most countries, but especially Australia) and the Government knows that. As I said this has nothing to do with climate? (I guess whenever has it?!)

Bulldust
February 24, 2011 7:09 pm

I imagine there are going to be some viral videos using that clip old44… I wonder if the Minnesotans are available for a bit of Aussie fun?

Andy G
February 24, 2011 8:18 pm

Oakeshot was always a drivelling fool,
But I thought, maybe, Tony Windsor had more integrity.. obvously not !!
I have sent him an email say as much.

KenB
February 24, 2011 9:43 pm

SideShowBob says:
February 24, 2011 at 7:27 am
Steve
But that’s exactly the whole point of a ficken carbon tax Steve! to ultimately lower energy bills by making people choose more efficient products. Poorer people can be compensated from the tax revenue … I mean Christ where do you people think the money is going? Into some kind of black hole never to be seen again!
Sideshow bob what arrogance and one eyed idiocy.
The fact is that Gillard and her Green Cohorts will put the money down a black hole, just as the Rudd Government did with Gillards approval. This will reduce the ordinary working man, the small investor, to serfdom – We will go back to walking 100 miles to save on fuel etc and have no incentive to improve our lot. This is a huge country with little transport infrastructure, but what there is, won’t be used by the Government, the Fat cats of Australian society or the Ross Garnault economists, they will run cars, fly in planes at the public expense and we will get the peanuts that fall from their table.
Windsor and Oakshott made a fatal mistake in throwing in with this lot as they knew that the Opposition party would go to the polls and win hands down at the first opportunity, so to preserve THEIR salary and perks, they compromised their claim to any principal and sided with a lame duck decimated party and the trainwrecking Greens who have done so much damage in local councils – planting trees in river courses, and preventing removal of fire hazard material that have caused so many problems in the floods and fires. Australians are only just waking up to the consequences of having a party of little green dictators rejoicing in exercising their “balance of power” and Julia having the insurance of having her parties appointed governor general to prevent a repeat of the removal of the Whitlam Labour Government by the then Governor General.
Perhaps its time for Oakshott and Windsor to apply a little precautionary principle and jump while then can and still face their electors who are might unhappy with them over this.

Patrick Davis
February 24, 2011 9:54 pm

“SideShowBob says:
February 24, 2011 at 7:27 am
But that’s exactly the whole point of a ficken carbon tax Steve! to ultimately lower energy bills by making people choose more efficient products.”
My quaterly power bill in 2009 was ~AU$97. My 2011 quaterly power bill is now ~AU$200. Did my actual, metered, power consumption go up in that time? Not at all. In fact it dipped slightly. So by using less, I actually paid more. When this carbon tax is introduced, how much less will my power bills be given the fact I use less power now than in 2009 (No, I have not changed any appliance, they are already efficient, or power use habbits)? And why should I throw away perfectly good appliances? Remind me again, how will this reduce CO2 emissions AND stop climate change?

February 24, 2011 10:37 pm

Gillard is like the principal in the school where I taught for 31 years. The school had a roll of 1200 and was doing fine, then this woman was appointed and she embarked on ludicrous educational experimentation. The public didn’t buy it and the roll dropped to less then 500 by the time she left to wreck another school. The roll is now 200 and closure is imminent as there was nothing we were able to do to revive the school’s reputation. At the time I was the maverick who did all I could to stop her, but she just mowed me down.
If you think a carbon tax is bad, our city has been sacrificed for the country’s (NZ) emissions trading scheme. Sick but true!
http://www.palmerston-north.info

Robert Orme
February 24, 2011 11:56 pm

Unfortunately, the press is terribly biaised and climate change is the reason given for any random event. For example climate change is quoted as a reason for freezing weather for the past few years in the USA and Europe, the floods in Europe and Australia, wild fires and cyclones etc. There is little else to read and most people probably accept this point of view. How can anybody without much understanding of science come to another point of view as there is little offering an alternative point of view?
If you look at the political system there are 150 members in the federal parliament. I don’t think there is any one with a degree in science; Bob Brown used to be a medico and I think Greg Combet (the minister) has some engineering qualification but as to the rest they are for the most lawyers, ex party officials, ex trade union officials, a few farmers and so on. So they are reliant upon advice of federal bureaucrats, and the various lobbying groups. So one has to looking at who will benefit from a carbon tax
and that seems to give some understanding as to the Prime Minister’s backflip. But, she has also renegged on nearly every other promise she made prior to the recent election. So her it will be interesting if she can hang-on to her job in the longterm, but for the moment she can do little wrong in the media whereas the leader of the opposition, TonyAbbott, has a much more difficult task.

old44
February 25, 2011 1:47 am

Bulldust says:
February 24, 2011 at 7:09 pm
I imagine there are going to be some viral videos using that clip old44… I wonder if the Minnesotans are available for a bit of Aussie fun?
I would love M4GW to do a parody but how do you top what Gillard is doing herself.

Les Francis
February 25, 2011 1:49 am

The voting public are in uproar over this.
Watch the developments in the next few days.
Gillard is making a goose of herself in her media forays trying to promote this announcement. Spin artist, deputy sheriff, Prime Minister Wayne Swan will need to come out and rescue her again.
Even the nominal leftist Aussie MSM have started labeling her as Joo-liar Gillard.
The bookmakers have already labeled her “history”.

Roger Knights
February 25, 2011 3:06 am

bubbagyro says:
February 24, 2011 at 2:42 pm
China has coal enough for generations to come. China is importing cheap coal from Oz and the US right now, preserving her own.

IIRC, it has lots of “steam coal” (bituminous) but is short on “metallurgical coal” (anthracite), which is what it’s buying (I think).

Andy G
February 25, 2011 3:53 am

Yep, IIRC, Gladstone area in QLD provides something like 80% of the world’s metalluric coal.

Andy G
February 25, 2011 3:57 am

If this moronic tax does somehow get through, would the Liberals, on winning the next election, reduce the price to $0.00. ??
or are they more likely just the keep the money rolling in.

KV
February 25, 2011 4:02 am

Ju-liar Gillard and her hypocritical Labor Party, aided and abetted by the Greens are trying to make us the laughing-stock of the world!
We have vast reserves of uranium and happily export it to the many countries enjoying the benefits of clean nuclear power, but the above troglodytes afraid of their own shadows won’t even consider building a nuclear power plant here.
We have vast supplies of coal supplying us power and happily export it to give us the standard of living we enjoy (but are rapidly losing) and the idiots above with their irrational hatred of fossil fuels, are trying to wreck the industry. Sadly, former Union hacks now MP’s have forgotten the workers who put them there and are actively involved in trying to destroy the jobs of those who depend on it.
We have many hydro-electric schemes giving us the cleanest, most renewable energy possible, with the opportunity to build several more dams to use the water which is currently wasted during the regular wet seasons, but no Government has the guts to stand up to the small minority of Greens who say “No Dams”!
We have vast reserves of natural gas but the Greens try and stop every proposed development of further fields.
Instead , this hotch -potch government of a big weak Labor dog being wagged by a tiny but noisy Green tail and propped up by three self-serving Independents, is throwing millions of dollars in wasteful subsidies at such schemes as wind, solar and hot rocks thermal technology, none of which can hope to provide the baseload power our growing nation will need.
Now they want to impose a costly carbon tax which will impact on almost every facet of our lives and place more strain on people already struggling with rising prices.
And for what? Allegedly to “stop climate change”, an impossible task under any circumstances, but worse when it’s based on the dodgy projections from inadequate climate models which have resulted in promotion of the hypothesis of AGW, arguably the greatest pseudo-scientific con ever perpetrated!
Truly we are currently in an asylum being run by the inmates !!
Hopefully common sense will prevail before they can do too much damage. There is certainly a rising tide of anger and frustration out there unlike any I have ever known before in my relatively long life.

February 25, 2011 5:44 am

I’ve set Ms Gillard’s words to dance music: “No Carbon Tax”.

Josh Grella
February 25, 2011 5:52 am

SideShowBob says:
February 24, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Wow, really? I’m the one rocking back and forth? Interesting. How about we stick to the original discussion? You stated that we are at peak oil and we need to find alternatives NOW. I replied we are not and that we have plenty of oil untapped within our own borders here in the USA. Enough to bring the cost of a gallon of gas to $1 or lower if we could just tell the greenies to shut up and get out of the way. That is fact. Bringing China’s increasing demand into the mix is nothing more than a diversion tactic – an attempt to reframe the argument because you know I’m right. We have enough oil here to supply us with all the petroleum products of every variety we need for well over a century at the most conservative estimates. During that time, efficincies and new types of energy will have time to be developed in an economically sound fashion. So, again explain to me why I’m wrong without resorting to shifting to an entirely different argument?
By the way, we have enough oil here to supply all our demand as well as to sell some to China if they want it. It’s a win-win. But, hey, since you obviuosly like the Simpsons, I’ll leave you with my favorite Homer quote: “Facts, shmacts. You can use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true.” I used facts. You used diversion tactics and tired old greenie lies. Care to try again?

Greg Holmes
February 25, 2011 7:05 am

Glad I do not live in Australia. How can this type of decision be made at a time when the peer reviewed evidence becoming available is showing huge flaws in the assumtions and theories of the climate alarmist cause. Even their our Meterological Service is being given a hard time. her husband doesn’t work for “Windmills Inc” does he?

February 25, 2011 9:41 am

So ends the reign of Australia’s first female pm.

February 25, 2011 12:22 pm

Greg Holmes asks, “her husband doesn’t work for “Windmills Inc” does he?” Ms Gillard is unmarried, but her leman, Tim Mathieson (who lives with her in the PM’s official residence, The Lodge), is a real estate salesman, hairdresser, and one of the Government’s men’s health ambassadors.

tango
February 25, 2011 12:47 pm

she will go down in history as the worst prime minister ever she is a goose and a left wing communist

Bruce Cobb
February 25, 2011 1:25 pm

SideShowBoob says:
February 24, 2011 at 1:49 pm
you mean to imply energy prices don’t factor into consumer buying habits, what rubbish!
Of course energy prices are a factor: the higher the cost of energy is, the less the consumer has available to spend, even on needed items. The cost of food, clothing, heating, cooling etc. all go up, making people poorer, which puts a downward drag on the economy, forces jobs overseas, etc. But, I guess that’s what Greenies really want, isn’t it?