I own an electric car (on my second one now) that I use for around town. It’s fine for short jaunts, which is the majority of driving. However the limiting factor is of course the battery and the range associated with it. While I can get about 40 miles of city driving, I could probably double that with a lighter, more efficient battery. While I know some people pooh-pooh electric cars, I think mine is rather fun. With gas prices headed toward $5 a gallon, I’ll have even more fun.
My electric car, shown above – a bit like a “smart car”, but slightly larger. My first was little more than a glorified golf cart. This one is full featured.
From the American Chemical Society
New high-performance lithium-ion battery ‘top candidate’ for electric cars
Scientists are reporting development of an advanced lithium-ion battery that is ideal for powering the electric vehicles now making their way into dealer showrooms. The new battery can store large amounts of energy in a small space and has a high rate capacity, meaning it can provide current even in extreme temperatures. A report on this innovation appears in ACS’ Journal of the American Chemical Society.
Bruno Scrosati, Yang-Kook Sun, and colleagues point out that consumers have a great desire for electric vehicles, given the shortage and expense of petroleum. But a typical hybrid car can only go short distances on electricity alone, and they hold less charge in very hot or very cold temperatures. With the government push to have one million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015, the pressure to solve these problems is high. To make electric vehicles a more realistic alternative to gas-powered automobiles, the researchers realized that an improved battery was needed.
The scientists developed a high-capacity, nanostructured, tin-carbon anode, or positive electrode, and a high-voltage, lithium-ion cathode, the negative electrode. When the two parts are put together, the result is a high-performance battery with a high energy density and rate capacity. “On the basis of the performance demonstrated here, this battery is a top candidate for powering sustainable vehicles,” the researchers say.
The authors acknowledge funding from WCU (World Class University) program through the Korea Science and Engineering Foundation.
ARTICLE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE “An Advanced Lithium Ion Battery Based on High Performance Electrode Materials”
DOWNLOAD FULL TEXT ARTICLE http://pubs.acs.org/stoken/presspac/presspac/full/10.1021/ja110522x
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>>Dr Bob
>>So, California ARB (CARB) calculated the carbon intensity for electric
>>vehciles and found that they are only about 40% lower than gasoline
>>vehicles on a CO2/mile basis
That is not comparing like with like.
If you compare Anthonies car with new VW Polo diesel, you will find that the VW Polo does better than the electric vehicle. (about 85 g CO2 per km for the Polo)
And even this is not a fair comparison. The VW Polo is bigger, faster, safer, and carries much more fuel than any electric vehicle of the Smart Car size. You cannot get away from the fact that the electric vehicle has many more stages for the energy to go through, before it gets to the wheels. It HAS to be less efficient.
Only with the advent of mass nucler power, will electric cars make sense for the majority of drivers.
And regards the questions on price, that is a red herring. Until governments get around to slapping a fuel tax on motive electricity (and they will), electric vehicles will always seem to be cheap to run.
.
A key barrier to LPG car is that many enclosed parking structures not do not accepting them due a supposed explosion/fire risk. LPG tanks have vents so the risk no-longer a real issue.
These batteries also explode with impact /heat / short circuits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21IySOMmFU4&feature=related
I know petrol cars do also, but a lot of work has been done in car design to avoid this – position of tank – automatic disconnection the battery in case of shock.
>>Dr Bob
>>So, California ARB (CARB) calculated the carbon intensity for electric
>>vehciles and found that they are only about 40% lower than gasoline
>>vehicles on a CO2/mile basis
That is not comparing like with like.
If you compare Anthonies car with new VW Polo diesel, you will find that the VW Polo does better than the electric vehicle. (about 85 g CO2 per km for the Polo)
And even this is not a fair comparison. The VW Polo is bigger, faster, safer, and carries much more fuel than any electric vehicle of the Smart Car size. You cannot get away from the fact that the electric vehicle has many more stages for the energy to go through, before it gets to the wheels. It HAS to be less efficient.
Only with the advent of mass nucler power, will electric cars make sense for the majority of drivers.
And regards the questions on the price of electricity, that is a red herring. Until governments get around to slapping a fuel tax on motive electricity (and they will), electric vehicles will always seem to be cheap to run.
.
the Li-ion batteries are fully recyclable. Once they are dead and no longer usable as a power supply, they will be added to the water supply to keep keeping you happy :).
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E1DE1E39F930A25751C1A96F9C8B63
dont know how much this toy costs, but I guess for the price difference between this and a regular car, one can afford quite a few gallons of gas. And should we go lectric, especially green lectric, you can expect electricity prices to go through the roof.
How do I know… well, err, I used to believe in AGW, and spent quite a lot of time researching environmentally sound solutions :)).
Even donated to greenpeace some years back. They have sent me so many paper brochures since that I am starting to get real worried about the Amazon rain forest..
Someone mentioned hybrids. The interesting thing about those is that they are not much better than a diesel. You can reduce your gas consumption more by driving non- agressively, and there is also the additional factor of smug. Hey, I drive a hybrid. No sense in walking those 200 yards now.. and you might just push that pedal a little bit harder to experience how good green acceleration really feels. Nature simply doesnt like environmentalism 🙂
The Journal of the American Chemical Society. This is one of the societies I was considering leaving after the Hal Lewis/American Physical Society event. And, believe me, the ACS is FAR MORE AGW/knee-jerk than APS. At least the APS took the effort to put up a sham panel to consider its AGW statement – that’s something the ACS would NEVER do.
Not that any of this detracts from the interesting article and its import for future energy utilization. It just struck me as a funny connection, today.
BTW – I didn’t resign my APS membership, either.
What most people fail to realise is that energy for transport largely comes down to energy density. Gasoline is absolutely packed full of joules/kg because it is all utilised (except the tank). Batteries on the other hand are always going to be deficient, because the chemical energy is stored in a thin layer which then requires heavy conductors to allow the current to get from the chemical energy storage film to the terminals. PLUS you need multiple cells, plus it’s a two part process whereas half the content of burning gasoline comes from the air.
Worse still, last time I looked Lead acid needed replacing after 200 charge recharge cycles – which means the cost of battery changes is a significant part of the running cost!
Having said all that, I’m quite keen on electric – it would be ideal to drive to the station each day! The real problem is finding a chasis to convert that won’t rust in the Scottish rain before it’s paid back the conversion cost.
How about a Chevy Volt with liquified natural gas?
http://www.nationalreview.com/planet-gore/260411/ups-powering-trucks-iliquefiedi-natural-gas-greg-pollowitz
As a pedestrian and a bicyclist, I use my hearing to keep my self from getting run-over.
Electric cars are very quiet when moving under 30 MPH. Maybe install a small speaker playing the sound track of the Absent Minded Professor’s model T. Turn it on when approaching bikers and peds.
Sound @ur momisugly 0:30….
Lead-acid batteries are 150 years old and still the best all around car battery. Be nice if someone would figure out a way to fill a tank with electrons, an ultra-super capacitor like with out plates and a dielectric.
consumers have a great desire for electric vehicles, given the shortage and expense of petroleum.
I have no idea what they are talking about. Don’t pin this on “consumers.” Electricity rates are going up along with gas prices – are they implying that “consumers” are so thrilled with their electric bill that they want to get an electric car (along with all their neighbors, exponentially increasing demand)? A diversity of power sources and yes, even gas prices, are a godsend, compared to what electricity rates will be after environmentalists have gotten through “leveling the playing field” for irresponsible, expensive, unsafe, unreliable green energy sources. The consumer has barely anything to do with this; perhaps nothing at all.
Included in the future prices of electricity, electric car enthusiasts need to calculate the following:
1. price on greenhouse gas emissions
2. national renewable energy standard – required use of windmills, etc.
3. building a new transmission superhighway to carry renewable energy to population centers
4. smart meters on homes – per the Whitehouse
This is pure command economy. Consumers are not responsible for any of this. Real consumers love pickups. 😀
Pull My Finger says: February 23, 2011 at 9:50 am
“Pisha! Americans only measure lawnmower engines in cc! The Trans Am comes with a lovely 6555 cc engine.”
So tell me this: What’s the cc of two chickens and a man pushing a mechanical lawn mower?
My heart is a Ford 5.0 L push-rod V-8!
it’s still most likely co2 powered though…
so ultimately a bit pointless, some gasturbine/electric hybrids do seem to have promise though..Lotus are devloping this range-extending drive train for other manufacturers.
I would love to have one. But how well do you think it would do at 20 or 30 below zero?
REPLY: With current battery technology, not well at all, but you really have to get past the idea that an electric vehicle and primary household vehicle are not the same thing today. – Anthony
Anthony,
I appreciate you explaining that you get away with lower energy cost because you are able to charge during low-demand times.. ie game the grid.
This ability is extent from the the fact that nearly nobody uses power at night. Were there more people like you, and that is the intent of the electric care producers, then the off-peak power will be more in line with day usage rates.
I believe ~25% of the US energy consumption is used for transportation.
With many electric vehicles being charged at night,creating an order or magnitude increase in the night load, rates would skyrocket.
Have “fun” while you can but the electric car is not a solution unless the grid is supported by nuke power, and batteries get better. I am a battery designer BTW.
I have been working on this for some time.
regards,
PW
REPLY: I think you are reading way to much into this. Just because I own an electric car doesn’t automatically mean I support crazy flawed wind power schemes. Yes we need nukes and other reliable sources or power. – Anthony
@Ralph says:
February 23, 2011 at 9:44 am
Well said there. Why hasn’t there been an analysis of the current UK vehicle numbers and the power they use? Fuel supply companies should be able to provide that figure without counting vehicles. Then figure out how much electicity will be needed to equal that consumption. And remember this will be in EXCESS of the current generating capacity.
Anthony, “I live about 2 miles from my office. ”
Shame on you that is a nice Walk or Bike Ride, fancy wasting all that electricity.
Sarc off/
REPLY: If there was a bike path, sure. But I have to ride on four lane streets, which I don’t like. -A
I think the electric car is a fantastic concept for urban and dense suburban commuters in this country. And of course, there’s no reason why anyone would need to feel pressured to purchase one if they need more hauling capacity.
Electric vehicles really need to start offering charging options. A solar cell on the roof would work great for those that park their vehicle outside at work. A small natural gas engine would work great for those needing the occasional extended range (natural gas is all domestic and expected to be capable of handling such greater demand without a price spike – and it’s cheap right now). The charge wouldn’t necessarily need to be enough to run the vehicle at 60 mph, but the engine could be turned on at the onset of a long trip to extend the battery from 40 miles to 80 miles or something.
Note: I’ll readily admit that I don’t know enough about the supply and disposal of the materials needed for lithium-ion batteries to discuss those issues in detail.
the battery cost component of hybrids can be as much as $20k and realistically they can be recharged 200-2500 times. thats $8-10$ everytime you plug it in – before elctricity costs. stick with petroleum.
typo – 2000- 2500 recharges
No response on heating the car, Anthony, despite (at least) three people asking.
REPLY: hadn’t noticed, I do have other things to do you know. It has a ceramic element electric heater. I’ll have a future post on the vehicle details for the curious – A
The concept as a city car is fine, but if you’re so close to your office & living in a pleasant climate, get your bicycle out, in fact, you’d probably be better off walking the two miles!
For a small car, that’s practical, how about the VW Polo Bluemotion.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Volkswagen-Polo-Bluemotion-2010/
But where’s the discussion about economics? Who wants to drop double the price for an electric vehicle? Certainly not the masses!
Back in the mid-1970’s there was a Scientific American article on using variable density fly-wheels as an alternative to batteries. They were some 3 feet in diameter, spun on magnetic bearings in a vacuum chamber. Their purported advantages over batteries were a) higher energy storage/pound, b) infinite recharge cycles, c) very high speed “recharge”, d) efficient for regenerative breaking, and e) you could demand much higher current from them than you could batteries.
The ScAm article said that the fly wheel could store enough energy for 30-40 miles, you could park it at an airport for a week and the wheel would still be spinning. But they recommended it as a hybrid with a small gasoline motor-generator to add energy to the flywheel.
I’ve wondered why that has not been more pursued. There are some practical considerations: You have to keep the flywheel flat and gimble it. The vacuum container must be made to contain a failure….
… and that might have been the problem. They even had a picture of the interior of the housing after a failure – a mess of fiberglass(?). Perhaps the greatest problem is if you are going to use a fly-wheel to replace energy equivalent of two gallons of gas, then if the flywheel is stopped through accident, then the entire kinetic energy of two gallons of gasoline must immediately be converted into heat and shrapnel.
I wonder if battery powered cars, particularly Li-based ones, do not suffer a similar problem. You charge them with the equivalent of a gallon of gas. They get damaged in an accident. Does the energy stay locked up in the battery – or might it short out? I think there are still restrictions on the number and size of Li-ion batteries you can take aboard airplanes.
The worry doesn’t stop with electrical fires. Is there a danger of chemical fire with the material contents of a heavily damaged Li-x battery? Lithium isn’t steel. What happens when it meets water, say from a fire-hose? We have gotten plenty careful about lead in our environment these past 45 years. What are the chances we might be a little cavalier about lithium today and regret it 30 years from now confronted by an increase in neuralgic disorders?
The Chinese have been the kings of lithium ion batteries for quite a while now and have had inner city electric cabs in full use for years now. The only real issue reported had been with EOL cost of replacement for the battery assembly which as is said in an earlier post is accelerated by operation in extremes of hot or cold. With charge life dwindling rapidly with load/road grade its success has been as an inner city taxi and small delivery conveyance only.
What we need to keep in mind with electric cars is the energy, materials and manpower it takes to make and properly dispose of a bank of batteries not merely the kw/h costs of plugging in.
I’d go for one except for the cost of ownership. The road tax, insurance, annual testing etc for two cars is just too much. If one could tax and insure them on the basis that only one car is on the road at a time, it would at least help.