
Guest post by Dr. Jerome Ravetz
While the micro-bureaucracy of the Lisbon workshop bureaucracy grinds its way towards the release of a statement, I realise that the time is long overdue for me to touch base at WUWT.
After all, it was at WUWT (with the help of Rog Tallbloke) that I made my debut on the blogosphere, and enjoyed the reaction of hundreds of readers, be they enthusiastic or vitriolic. Also, it was on WUWT that I had the first experience of seeing non-violent communication in the Climategate debate. The circumstances were surprising, for it involved our very own fire-eating champion Willis.
He was responding to Judith Curry’s posting, where she explained how she had got to where she was then. Of course he loathed her for complicity in the great Warmista fraud, and he despised her for attempting to apologise for her actions rather than crawling to WUWT in full contrition. But he had to admit that he respected and admired her for guts in doing a Daniel act, and facing the lions like himself. At that point, non-violence in the climate debate was born. For Willis had realised that bad people are not necessarily all bad. There might even be some purpose in talking to them! From that point on, WUWT could take the lead in enforcing civility in the debate, and I am very pleased to see how the principle has spread all across the lines.
Reflecting on that incident, I began to shape up ideas for the workshop that eventually took place last month. Of course it was highly imperfect, with many things done and not done in error. But what was remarkable was the universal spirit of accomplishment, even delight, that people were getting on so well and so productively. Of course, this depended to some extent on our choice of invitations; we did get close to the edge of the zone on the spectrum within in which people would be sure to be reasonably civil to each other. On that first meeting, with so much other learning to do, it would not have been productive to have explosions of mutual insults. Another time, we could try to take on that one as well.
I suppose people know that I went to a Quaker college, Swarthmore, and I have spent all the years afterwards making sense of its message of nonviolence. In a course on political science I read ‘The Power of Non-Violence’ by Richard Gregg. It struck me as very sweet but quite unrealistic. Between then and now was Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, and now Tunisia, Egypt and beyond. It seems that a group of non-violent activists in Serbia had used a book by one of Gregg’s followers, Gene Sharp. They had passed the message to a study group in Qatar, and it was picked up by the activists in Tunisia and Egypt to become the basis of their strategy. The rest is history in the making. There is at last some chance that revolutions now will not simply produce new tyrannies. All this gives support to my conviction that we were correct in making the main purpose of the Lisbon workshop to further the development of non-violence in scientific debate.
My principle has always been that you don’t know what the other person is going through, and to return their violence doesn’t help them resolve their conflict of conscience. It’s so easy to condemn the evil ones and try to destroy them; that way we would still have the sectarian killings in Northern Ireland and probably a bloodbath in South Africa. On the personal level, who would have known that the slave-trader John Newton was being prepared for the experience that would eventually lead him to compose ‘Amazing Grace’?
With those words of explanation, I offer my Lisbon public lecture to Anthony Watts for debate on WUWT. This, I believe is the essence of the Lisbon story, rather than who said what about whom. Willis – over to you!
==================================================================
Non-Violence in Science?
Jerome Ravetz,
‘Reconciliation in the Climate Change Debate’
Public Meeting at the Gulbenkian Foundation
Lisbon 28 January 2011
People attending this conference might find the whole idea of non-violence in science to be strange. We are familiar, by now, with the use of reconciliation and non-violence to resolve intractable disputes in the political sphere. Indeed, it is now generally accepted that this is the only way to achieve a lasting and just settlement in conflicts between peoples. It worked in South Africa and in Northern Ireland, and noone with standing in the international community argues for a different approach to the Israel-Palestine conflict. But science? What possible relevance could this approach have to science?
Debate, sometimes fierce and impassioned, is the lifeblood of science. The advances of science do not occur smoothly and by consensus. There are always at least two sides to the interpretation of new theories and results. Social researchers have found that each scientific side explains its own attitudes in methodological terms, and explains the attitudes of the opposition in sociological terms. Roughly speaking, “I” am being a scientist, and “They” are being – something else. All this is quite natural and inevitable, and it has been that way from the beginning.
The process does not work perfectly. There is no ‘hidden hand’ that guides scientists quickly and correctly to the right answer. There can be injustices and losses; great innovators can languish in obscurity for a lifetime, because their theories were too discordant with the prevailing paradigm or ‘tacit knowledge’. However, to the best of our knowledge, the correct understanding does eventually emerge, thanks to the normal processes of debate and to the plurality of locations and voices in any field of science.
Why, then, have we organised a scientific conference about reconciliation, where we have actually had instruction in the theory and practice of ‘Non-Violent Communication’? Do we really need to import the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi into the conduct of science? We believe that on this occasion we do. This conference has not been about science in general, or any old field of science. The focus has been on Climate Change, and in particular the rancour that has been released by the ‘Climategate’ emails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Norwich, England.
This debate has not just been about the science of climate change It also concerns policy, for reducing the emissions of Carbon Dioxide worldwide. This requires a very large, complex and expensive project. It extends into lifestyles and values, as the transition out of a carbon-based economy will require a change in our ideas of comfort, convenience and the good life. There are urgent issues of equity, both between rich and poor peoples now, and also between ourselves and our descendants. All these profound issues depend for their resolution on an adequate basis in science. Some say, if we are not really sure that bad things are happening, why bother imposing these drastic and costly changes on the world’s people? But others reply, by what right can we use scientific uncertainty as an excuse for failing to protect ourselves and our descendants from irreversible catastrophe?
Both of those positions accept that there is a real debate about the strength of the science, and effectively argue about the proper burden of proof, or degree of precaution that is justified. But there are plenty of voices on the extremes. For quite some time, the official scientific establishments, particularly in the Anglophone world, claimed that ‘the science is settled’, and ‘the debate is over’. At the opposite extreme are those, including some quite reputable scientists, who argue that nothing whatever has been proved about the long-term changes in climate that might be resulting from the current increase in the concentration of Carbon Dioxide. Between these extremes, the explanations of opposing views are not merely sociological. They become political and moral. Each side accuses the other of being corrupt. The ‘skeptics’ or ‘deniers’ are dismissed as either working for outside interests, industrial or ideological, or being grossly incompetent as scientists. In short, as being either prostitutes or cranks. In their turn, the ‘alarmists’ or ‘warmistas’ are accused of feathering their own nests as grant-gaining entrepreneurial scientists, playing along with their own dishonest ideological politicians. In their protestations of scientific objectivity, they are accused of the corruptions of hypocrisy.
In the classic philosophy of science, it was imagined that debates would be settled by a ‘crucial experiment’. The observations made by Eddington in 1919 confirmed Einstein’s general theory of relativity, tout court. Before that, Rutherford showed that the atom is nearly all empty space, with a massive nucleus and planetary electrons circling it. Such crisp, clean experiments are taken as characteristic of natural science, establishing its status as solid knowledge, superior to the mere opinions of the social sciences and humanities. Where such crucial experiments happen not to occur, as in the case of Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection, it is assumed that they would occur if we could devise them. For that is the essence of science.
When we come to the climate, there are indeed two classic, simple experiences that for some are as conclusive as Eddington’s observation of the planet Mercury and of the light from the star in the Hyades cluster. The first of these is the original model of a ‘greenhouse’ earth made by the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius in 1896. And the second is a remarkable set of readings of atmospheric Carbon Dioxide, taken on top of the Hawaiian volcano Mauna Loa, showing a steady rise from their inception in the 1950’s. Nothing could be more convincing than that combination, except to those who do not wish to be convinced. Suffice to say that the application of the Arrhenius model to the actual conditions on earth, including all the effects that could modify the entry and exit of radiant energy, plus the storage of heat in the oceans, leaves plenty of room for debate for those that want it. And the Mauna Loa data extend only over a half-century; extrapolating that backwards or forward is again not entirely straightforward.
Hence the climate science debate is one where all the features that make natural science different from sociology, or indeed from politics, are weakened or absent. And in the course of that debate we have discovered a serious flaw in the prevailing philosophy of science: there is no explanation of honest error. Students of science never see a failed experiment or a mistaken theory; for them it is success and truth all the way. Only those who have done truly innovative research discover how intimately are success and failure, truth and error, connected. And so when a scientist finds him- or herself convinced of the truth of a particular theory, they have no framework for treating their erring opponent with respect. “I” am right, “you” are wrong, and by persisting in your error you demonstrate that your failings are moral as well as intellectual. In the ordinary course of scientific debate such attitudes are kept under control, but in the total, complex climate science debate they come to dominate.
The debate has passed its peak of intensity, as the failure of Copenhagen has taken the impetus out of the policy drive. But the rancour and bitterness are unresolved. There has been some softening of attitudes about the issue of global warming, but (so far as I can see) little softening of emotions about past adversaries. It is for that reason that my colleagues and I have made this unusual experiment, if you wish bringing Gandhi to science or even science to Gandhi. As we planned it, our hopes were modest indeed. We could not imagine attracting people with very hardened views on the other side. We know that political negotiations begin with intermediaries, then perhaps progress to members in adjacent rooms, eventually have principals all ensconced in a secret location, and only when it is all over do they meet in public. Of course people don’t trust and respect each other at the start; and they themselves are distrusted by their own side even for dealing with the enemy. Only gradually, with many fits and false starts, is trust built up.
So for our first little experiment, we brought together people who would at least talk to those we brought with opposing views. And of course, what is essential in such activities, all who are there agree that this is an important venture. When we saw how some very busy people have enthusiastically agreed to come from very long distances, we felt that this venture is indeed worthwhile. Of course we hope that by its success it will lead to others. We do not at all intend to ‘solve’ the climate science debate, or to reach a consensus on whether we must now mount a global campaign against Carbon Dioxide. That is to be left to other forums, organised from within the appropriate scientific institutions. If we can only get people talking, and eventually framing particular scientific questions on which agreement could in principle be reached, that will have been as great a success as we could hope for.
We would also like such a venture as this to be an example of the power of non-violence, even in science. The great culture heroes of the last half-century have been defined by non-violence: Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, and now Aung San Suu Kyi. They all paid a price for their convictions, sometimes a heavy one. We note that none were white men, and none were scientists. This is not to say that non-violence has been totally absent from science. We all know of Einstein and his ambivalent relation to warfare; and there is the late Sir Joseph Rotblat, who gave up a career in science to found the Pugwash movement for East-West dialogue during the cold war. But if we search for scientists who have really lived out their non-violent convictions, we find two nonwhite women: Wangerai Maathai and Vandana Shiva.
That reflection brings me to the state of science itself. Those of an older generation remember a time when the prestige of science was unquestioned. Science would save the world, and scientists would do the saving. It is all different now, and the mutual denunciations of the scientists in the Climategate debate have not helped. One of the most important influences that drove me to a personal involvement in this debate was a report by our distinguished colleague Judith Curry, of a conversation with a student. This student was dismayed by the Climategate story that had just broken, and wondered whether this was the sort of career that she wanted to take up. We all know what happens to institutions when they fail to attract the brightest and the best young people. Slowly, perhaps, but surely, they atrophy and wither.
You see the connection. If ‘science’ comes to be seen by young people as the sort of institution where Climategate happens, and where scientists insult and condemn each other, its future is not bright. Of course, this negative reaction would happen only at the margins; but it is at the margins where we will find the really wonderful young people that we need. I cannot prescribe, indeed I can scarcely imagine, how the spirit of non-violence that has inspired the political world can be imported effectively into science. But I would argue that it is an attempt that is well worth making, even for the future of science itself.
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“My principle has always been that you don’t know what the other person is going through..” quoth he.
And yet he seems to know so much of the very thoughts of “our very own fire-eating champion Willis.
“Of course he loathed her… despised her … . But he had to admit … For Willis had realised… etc etc.”
Dr. Ravetz has yet to bridge the gulf, it seems, between an achademic understanding of his subject and putting it into practice.
If they benefited from betraying the tenets of science, they deserve to become tenants of the Big House.
Yes, I’m pushing for PNS to stand for Political Newspeak Science.
Yes, amusing to hear the projections of the lot who thought 10:10’s “No Pressure” vid would be a hoot. You know, if that video had been produced by a skeptic trying to satirize the intolerance and love of brain-washing of the Believers, it would have served the purpose just fine. Of course, it would have drawn howls of outrage about the calumny of accusing them of wanting to detonate dis-Believing children!
What a farrago of phantasies and falsehoods they wallow in.
One of the proposed “solutions” for the proposed “problem” of AGW is the notion that we should all start paying the “true cost” for our stuff. I read somewhere that by one definition of true cost, the price of a new car would rise by an average of $40,000.
This “idea”, if such it can be called, has now spread around the idiotosphere to the point where even a friend of mine who has otherwise got very little interest in economics or science (except for the belief that if something is called “for the environment”, it must be good) has latched onto it as a way to save the planet.
Unfortunately he also has very little in the way of income, with two children and a wife to support. When I pointed out to him that any rise in the price of fuel energy inevitably raises the price of everything else, he defaulted to the idea that it would all be run by a wise government that would allow people like him to pay little or nothing more than currently, while socking everybody else for their “fair share”.
My proposal to all the people who think “true cost” economics is a great idea is simple: You first.
It should be a trivial matter to set up formulæ for reckoning the “true cost” of your box of Wheaties. And it would be simple to create a website where you could plug in all your purchases and be presented with the “true cost” tab. And of course all those people who want to see the government take over every single aspect of the economy and dictate prices for everything we buy ought to jump at the chance to voluntarily pay the premium, thus setting an example for the rest of us.
My only question is, how long should I hold my breath?
And Jerome Ravetz can make a living from this?
tallbloke says:
February 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Tom Eyre says:
February 21, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Reconciliation is probably not the correct word, perhaps Professional Moderation would be better.
That’s pretty much right. And is more or less what we got at Lisbon. As one of the organisers put it:
“We are not here to force a compromise. We are here to provide a space where the fight can take place in civility.”
I can live with that objective. But, kissing Mann and making up is not in the cards. The battles are tiresome and the bad science is tiresome. It’s unfortunate that this will carry on — maybe even for quite some time — there may still be a long road to go before even civility takes hold.
Carry on then. 😉
Going easy would be easier if PNS didn’t come with SO much poli-sci baggage. The bottom line is that if the facts are questionable, and the analysis is dubious, and the data accumulation is a long-term project, then society and politicians are just going to have to deal with it. C’est la vie, as they say. It is not the job of science or scientists to make a WAG cartoon for guidance of the worried and befuddled.
As for PhD challenges and such, it should be noted that there is no such thing as an academic discipline called climate science. If the claims of certain Jackasses of All Sciences, Masters of None are to be believed, they’ve generated one out of DIY scraps and snippets, meanwhile aggressively excluding real experts in pertinent real sciences and fields, notably statistics and atmospheric thermodynamics, modeling and forecasting. Here’s a/the question: what does/will it take for this potential field to become an actual distinct subject and discipline? A lot more than EAU, CRU, Mann, and Hansen have offered to date, methinks.
Nope, not so. They’re also intimately involved with an aggressive campaign to push, as Lindzen said, “a roll-back of the industrial age”. Kurzweil’s attempt to apply Moore’s Law and project cheap-enough-to-afford solar power in a decade or two, e.g., doesn’t cut it. The analogy is weak, and in any case the stalling of hydrocarbon energy and the explosion (currently at an all-time peak) of food prices is already mass-murderously criminal in broad swathes of the planet.
This is not about scientific decorum any more, and probably never was.
Non-violent is as non-violent does.
Without strong persistent intellectual dissent, it would of all been one way traffic for the Government funded warmists in presenting their unfounded conclusions as fact.
They have had limitless support of Govt’s, and the mainstream media and have attempted to silence opposing voices in the scientific community. Their attempt to pass of their hypothesis as absolute truth has been nothing short of scandalously fraudulent.
If they really want to reconcile then they should put their propoganda machine on hold for a little bit (1 month max) as they have been blaring their incessant alarmism for at least 15 years now and give proper voice to proper sceptical scientists to air their views before engaging them in debate.
Also the onus should be on the warmists side to prove their theory…no reversal of the null hypothesis.
An outline of the economic and social impacts of their Global scheme should also be made available to scrutiny and the implications for national sovereignty and proper democratic representation with regard to their plans global taxes should be publicly exposed.
http://www.un.org/wcm/content/site/climatechange/pages/financeadvisorygroup/pid/13300
This could also be debated by political commentators and economists.
So I guess it comes down to this…Trust the public with the truth and if they are still of the opinion that political solutions need to be implemented then they will trust the politicians with the solution because of their honesty and transparency.
I’m sure either way that commonsense would prevail in an environment of honesty and openness.
This should be the basis for any future reconciliation
Another form of the recent meme of “progressives”, that heated debate is somehow equated to violence.
With all due respect to Dr Ravetz. Thanks you for cc’ing your lecture here. I would love to address your points in detail, but many others here have already touched on most if not all, so I won’t waste anyone’s time repeating them. I will sum up my position by quoting the following which encapsulates my feelings rather succinctly and effectively;
Again, thank you Dr Ravetz.
Anthony:
Looks like you made the right choice in choosing the Pinewood Derby with your son rather than Lisbon. Here’s hoping that your son stays in the scouts so that you can make many more such decisions in the coming years.
Add me to the list of those concerned that you could burn out. Please don’t let that happen. We need your blog to help expose the Dr. Ravetz’ of the CAGW conspiracy. In this case your readers have voted. Best I can tell its 62-1 rejecting this attempt to marginalize the fire breathing Willis Eschenbach and the rest of us.
PB
Post–normal science is abnormal science or science that comes after normal science. I am waiting for post abnormal science or normal science to reappear.
Mixing leftist political mumbo jumbo with science is a very disturbing thought. Mr. Ravetz appears to be a master of this nonsence.
All of you that are fighting the good fight to discover and reveal the “truth” as it relates to AWG keep doing what you do. Ignore this Ravetz’s political drivel and keep doing the hard work requred to get to the truth!
@Theo Goodwin
Quine was a fool. Nothing useful has ever come from Quine or ever will. One example: Quine attacked the idea that propositions exist. Really!! According to him, the basis of language and translation of languages is an unworkable fiction. This topic has been handled in a much more serious way by others who were concerned for the truth and not for building a career out of shocking propositions. Quine’s work is so rife with error and deliberate obscurantism that I doubt that anyone who likes it will ever contribute to science. So, I would advise against wasting one’s time by reading Quine. The spell of Quine is fading and soon Foucalt
And there you have it. I’ve remarked before that the AGW is an offshoot of misanthropy. Well, so is a great deal of “philosophy” that deliberately tries to waste our time on earth.
@Ravetz
We haven’t been attracting the best and brightest to science for quite some time. I suspect that’s how you got in. Your books advocating science without truth (i.e. post-normal) are exactly what’s wrong. I’m not in favor of allowing you to make a peace deal with anti-humanists of the left any more than Judith Curry, who is in possession of all the relevant facts concerning AGW fraud and refuses to denounce it. Remember, Jerome, demagoguery is a weapon against your enemies which you call ‘ethics’ if the population happens to believe in morality. That’s why you love to talk about ethics instead of truth.
Ravetz is just a softer version of the basic misanthropist which has defined left wing science since the 70s and right wing science since the late 19th century until about 1945. I don’t know why you bother with his kind.
Compromise is at the heart of any well run, civilised society.
But, when one side is interested in truth, reason and fairness,
while the other side is only interest in winning,
compromise becomes impossible.
Why someone would type out these sorts of things, I just don’t understand.
Comparing the behavior of the opposing sides of the climate debate to the struggles of Gandhi or Martin Luther King insults the memory and accomplishments of those individuals.
And the comments about white/non-white? what does that have to do with anything?
Now my real issue. the idea of coming to some sort of warm and fuzzy agreement about the science, between warmists and skeptics. The idea of coming to an agreement about what should be done about the agreement about the science.
I split a kindergarten class into two groups, and give each group 15 blocks and ask them to count them. Upon counting the blocks, the first group says there are 13 and the second group says there are 15. In a class discussion we agree that there must be 14 blocks.
Jimmy doesnt agree that there are 14 blocks. Neither group counted 14 blocks. The answer must be that one group counted wrong. Jimmy wants to count again and determine WHICH group is correct and which group is incorrect.
Jimmy is told that the class is agreeing that there are 14 blocks and that by insisting that there be a recount he’s not playing fair. This is when Jimmy DEMANDS that there be a recount. After all, the number of blocks is not going to change, counting again will show if there are 13, 14, or 15 blocks.
Jimmy goes to the corner for not playing nice with the class.
Now here is MY question Mr. Ravetz: Does coming to an agreement about how many blocks there are CHANGE the number of blocks actually sitting in the pile? (a simple yes or no will do)
My second question: Does an agreement halfway down the line between skeptics and warmists have anything more to do with reality than a group of children deciding there are 14 blocks? (yes or no)
Last, please explain where exactly any of this fits in the scientific method. hypothesis, method, data, error, conclusion? Its supposed to be repeatable, not agreeable.
Since when highway robbers admonish their victims to be nice and reasonable?
Give back all the taxpayers’ money you spent on yourselves, your comfy careers and conferences, your bloated reputations, your political agenda, and your carbon indulgences under the aegis of “saving the planet”; apologize publicly to every person you censored, banned, gagged, fired, not hired, peer-reviewed to oblivion and insulted during last two decades of incessant green hoax propaganda.
After that — only after that — you may have a right to say something about us, honest people, being not very nice to you, con artists.
Jerome Ravetz,
I appreciate your post. Thank you.
Despite your lengthy reasoning, I find the actual situation in climate science to be starkly more simple. We currently have a rapidly expanding situation (finally) where open, rigorous, vehement argumentation of free independent thinkers in a non-authoritarian society are successfully achieving uncompromised scientific knowledge on climate. The dialog is freeing itself from a repressive past environment. The actual current situation has no necessary link to any of your (Ravetz) proposed guidance nor to the climate science of the self-named consensus. We have the beginnings of laissez faire in the scientific discourse on climate science without the superstructure of the kind you (Ravetz) has outlined. Viva la renaissance!
Amongst your lengthy post I discerned two false premises which I think are the essential basis of your conceptions.
Your first false premise is related to the journey you have taken us into the post-Kantian epistemology of Hegel with his problematic dialectic materialism. You posit two opposites (a la Hegel), violent vs. non-violent, as false alternatives in your Hegelian epistemological processes. Those dialetic terms are irrelevant. NOTE: Didn’t Hegel’s dialectic materialism form the fundamental basis of the falsified Engel & Marx social/ political/ economic ideology?
Your second false premise is your positing (a priori) of what you treat as an incontrovertible truth; CAGW. The implication you make is science cannot get to a sufficient operating level of objective truth in climate ever so act now; therefore you infer human knowledge must remain essentially subjective on climate. How did you rise above the human subjectivity you implied to posit your truth, Mr Ravetz? I notice we are in a non-logical Alice in Wonderland now with these false premises.
Judith Curry – if you are monitoring please note I did not use the term PNS, even though I was talking about it.
John
To EternalOptimist ~
Thanks for your story regarding the response – or rather, the lack of one – from one of the ‘Greenies’. Here’s a story of my own for you to mull over.
My Aussie sweetheart and I live 3.5 hours south of Adelaide, on the coast of South Australia. The Coorong is supposedly a ‘wildlife sanctuary’ and it’s directly to our North.
In the Coorong ~ hunting deer is STRICTLY forbidden, okay? The ‘Greenies’ say that they want to protect the population there. Still okay with that? Cool. So was the guy who runs a little business bringing in hunters from around the world… and so am I.
TILL – that is, just last year.
It was just that last year ~ in the beloved sanctuary of the Coorong ~ that the whirring of helicopters was heard and the guardians of the forest ~ the Greenies ~ had equipped these state copters to fly into the area ~ open their doors in flight ~ and began their CRUEL AND INHUMANE SLAUGHTER of those ‘little bambis’ they were protecting.
THEY WERE ‘CULLED’ ~ Gentlemen. They were shot from outta the sky by young recruits in the Australian army. That’s what was done. I was told that it took a couple of hours to make certain that they had gotten in their ‘practice’ and ‘quota’. Isn’t that JUST like these PEOPLE? (Used for the effect of ‘pee-pole’s)
None of the deer shot were picked up either. No meat was recovered so that it might have fed those less fortunate in Adelaide…
I heard the copters from my farm… Not many planes or copters invade this beautifully clear air space… but, I assure you… when I heard the drone of those big birds… I knew that not totally unlike Libya ~ the Green Movement had again ~ had a grotesque ‘field day’ of sorts.
That’s the kind of TRUTH that needs to be spread so that their ‘dis-ease’ (that’s lack of peace – to you and I) can be eradicated offa this planet for GOOD.
We all can’t be Glenn Beck (like, who would want to be?!) or Anthony Watts ~ or Christopher Monckton, but ~ Gentlemen. I URGE YOU ~ to ‘be yourself’ and stand and assist in whatever manner you are capable of in this, yes. This fight. Because on many fronts ~ it’s never been a bloodless coup ~ just ask those stupid deer gunned down with M-16’s ~ or ~ the Armenians in my grandfather’s holocaust days ~ or, heck ~ talk to the pastor from Uganda that’s here staying with us…
It’s NEVER been bloodless, Gentlemen. We’ve only pretended it was so. Shame on us till we stand in strength, in LOVE, and in boldness.
Cynthia Lauren
Well said, INGSOC. Very.Well. said.
C.L. Thorpe
I will not and cannot have a civil discourse with humans who believe that certain other humans are to blame for the destruction of the earth. It must be my English breeding, but the only way I know is to fight them. Let’s hope it’s only a war of words and scientific papers. Judging from the warmists manipulation of political opinion and the calls for reductions in the human population, I have my doubts.
Theo Goodwin.
I second your recommendation of quine
Somehow, I suspect the good professor grew up in a very sheltered environment if he thinks “talking ugly” is “violence”. I think maybe Jerome spent his playground period in the library. Come to think of it, I believe I may remember old Jerome. He was the kid the teacher kept at her side so the rest of us unwashed hooligans couldn’t get at him.
Question of God
“…From another point of view it is worse than silly, it is vile. When one turns to the magnificent edifice of the physical sciences, and sees how it was reared; … what submission to the icy laws of outer fact are wrought into its very stones and mortar; how absolutely impersonal it stands in its vast augustness — then how besotted and contemptible seems every little sentimentalist who comes blowing his voluntary smoke-wreaths, and pretending to decide things from out of his private dream! Can we wonder if those bred in the rugged and manly school of science should feel like spewing such subjectivism out of their mouths?… It is only natural that those who have caught the scientific fever should pass over to the opposite extreme. … ”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/questionofgod/voices/james.html
‘The Moral Equivalent of War’
http://www.constitution.org/wj/meow.htm
Dr Ravetz, thank you for your post and also attending the Lisbon event to share your views.