Lord Stern: Deny the whole USA trade if you don't play the AGW game

Climate Wars: Nick Stern Threatens U.S. With Trade Boycott

The Times, 19 November 2010

Ben Webster

The United States will be banned from selling goods to many countries if it continues to shirk its promise to cut greenhouse gas emissions, according to the world’s leading climate change economist.

In an interview with The Times, Lord Stern of Brentford said that nations that were taking strong action on emissions could start imposing restrictions on “dirty” US exports by 2020.

Lord Stern, who advises several G20 leaders and is one of the key players in the international negotiations seeking a deal on emissions, made his comments ten days before the annual United Nations climate change conference opens in Cancun, Mexico. They reflect the feeling in many countries that a lack of action on emissions in the US is delaying progress in the talks.

Lord Stern said that Europe and the Far East (sic) were forging ahead of the US in controlling emissions and switching to low carbon sources of energy. They would not tolerate having their industries undermined by American competitors that had not paid for their emissions. “If you are charging properly for carbon and other people are not, you will take that into account,” he said. “Many of the more forward-looking people in the US are thinking about this. If they see a danger on the trade front to US exports that could influence public discussion.”

Asked what type of US products could face restrictions, Lord Stern said: “Aircraft, clearly, some cars, machine tools — it’s not simply what’s in the capital good, it’s what kind of processes the capital good is facilitating.”

Lord Stern said that a complete ban on some goods was also possible. He said the American people should overcome their historical antipathy to taxation and accept that emissions needed to be controlled either through a tax or a trading scheme.

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November 19, 2010 12:59 pm

As an Englishman I would like to apologize to everyone for Lord Stern.
And also where is Guido Fawkes when his country needs him?

Magnus A
November 19, 2010 1:00 pm

R. de Haan, thanks for the links!!!

November 19, 2010 1:01 pm

Enneagram says 11:17 am:
“But, sincerely, I do not understand why a man with so many billions want to rule the world? To have more money?…perhaps he will buy immortality? I don’t get it. He is meddling in many countries with his “Open Society” thing… Can anyone… explain to me such a behavior?”
Money doesn’t explain all human behavior. There is also status, which is hard-wired into us by evolution. In a prehistoric tribe, status easily meant the difference between survival and starvation. The king’s family rarely starved.
From a report in The Economist about a psychology experiment, here is an example of how social status works: when people were asked in a study whether they would rather earn $100,000 a year, when everyone they knew was earning $50,000 a year, or whether they would rather earn $150,000 a year, when everyone else they knew was earning $200,000 a year, the answer invariably given was that they would prefer to earn the lower amount; as long as they earned more than other people did, they were happier. Higher social status is more important than more dollars.
Another example of status: during the Roman civil war, when Caesar’s army was marching in the Alps they came upon an extremely destitute, dirt-poor village. One of Caesar’s lieutenants jokingly asked him how he would like to be the head man of that no-account village. Caesar replied: “Better head man here than second man in Rome.” Status is deeply ingrained. It goes back to Cain and Abel, and it trumps money.
The world is fast becoming richer. Forbes magazine this week listed the top ten Indian billionaires. Their wealth totaled several hundred billion dollars, and they are not all of India’s billionaires. Then there is China, and the rest of the developing world.
George Soros is much less rich than many Indians and Chinese. The more billionaires in the world, the lower George’s status. America has a lot of billionaires, so Soros is nothing special in that regard. Soros is now moving to China, where his wealth will allow him to live in opulence among a billion people – where most cannot even afford a car [and where he will be far beyond the reach of France, where he is a convicted criminal].
Then there is the status that comes from totalitarian governments, which have always coddled rich, friendly capitalists. For example, the Soviet Union’s bowing and scraping before Armand Hammer, who could travel at will throughout Russia, and where the red carpet was always rolled out for him.
Soros, like other rich men, craves the status conferred by his green entourage. There are no more intense haters than eco-greens; who wants to be hated and chastised, when with the right eco-words and some money spread around, they can buy adulation and fawning People magazine articles instead?
Soros knows he was given a gift for financial acumen. But deep down he is still the “Judas goat” who herded his fellow jews into railroad cars for the Nazis, promising them they were going to Palestine. The went East, instead. During an interview Soros was given the opportunity to apologize for leading his countrymen and women to slaughter. He refused. He has always wanted to be on the side of totalitarians. To Soros, that confers the ultimate status.
The common people mean nothing to him; they are simply tools, a means to an end. And many of them are willing tools. Some of the masses liquidated by Stalin went out happily, knowing they were to be shot. They believed their deaths would advance international socialism. Martyrs die in order to be right. And as Leo Tolstoy explains:

I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth, if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.

Gavin Schmidt, Lord Stern, Michael Mann, Phil Jones and most of their ilk know that CAGW is a scam. Their emails show that they know the real world data directly contradicts their models.
But by now they own their lie. They have told it too often. And the status they enjoy is so fantastic that they are hooked, knowing that if they had been born forty years earlier, they would be unknown nerds, hoping no one took their seat in the faculty lounge while they went out for a smoke, and desperately wishing they were on the football team instead of being ordinary scientists.

latitude
November 19, 2010 1:04 pm

They reflect the feeling in many countries
=====================================
on one side you have the vast majority of countries that get paid
on the other, you have a small minority of countries that have to pay
Let’s vote!

GBees
November 19, 2010 1:08 pm

Imbecile. Who needs these Globalists and their socialist agendas. Up yours IMF, UN, IPCC, WHO. We don’t care for you’re Socialist agendas which dictate to free countries and strip away their sovereign rights.

Rational Debate
November 19, 2010 1:12 pm

When I posted this to Tips & Notes for Anthony yesterday, the aspect that really caught my eye was that he’s threatening us – ten years in the future!!! How reasonable is that?
The other main thoughts I’d had was that we’ll see if this is even an issue by then or if AGW has gone the way of the Dodo’s…. the latter would be a he who laughs last situation. Plus, a liberal green friend of mine has, several times in the past, said that WE (the USA) ought to do exactly this to other countries when we implement either cap & trade or carbon taxes.
All of this, of course, makes me think of how protectionist trade wars were integral in causing the Great Depression.

jason
November 19, 2010 1:13 pm

I wrote about Stern on blackswhitewash.com earlier in the year.
He has a stake in a carbon trading company, and is closely tied to the grantham institute.
He is basically the worst sort of advocate, he is in it for the money.

jazznick
November 19, 2010 1:18 pm

I do apologise on behalf of the UK for the further outpourings of this demented
pillock.
Hear what Prof Richard Lindzen thinks about this moron. When he stops giggling.
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=6406

STEPHEN PARKERuk
November 19, 2010 1:20 pm

Who would you want on your side when the chips are down. the french, indians Chinese, germans italians, and all south americans? Or the english, australians, new zealanders and canadians. It pays to know who your friends really are

Editor
November 19, 2010 1:23 pm

a jones says: “It is pure codswallop because the WTO regime does not allow for such a thing
Rats! I was hoping that Australia could join in and be banned too, it could be fun.
Re-think : That’s nonsense, of course. Australian exports were banned by the UK back in 1973.
So, is it : Hi USA, welcome to the club…

November 19, 2010 1:26 pm

Obviously, I’m talking about governments
Here, in the third world. We know.
The best trade of the world. It is losing a war to the United States of America. Any war.
Coincidences….????????
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg/200px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Watts_in_OZ_2010.jpg/220px-Watts_in_OZ_2010.jpg

Ross
November 19, 2010 1:29 pm

“The United States will be banned from selling goods”
So who will do the banning , Stern ? and who are you to speak on behalf of any Govt.?
These idiots can see that Cancun is going to be worse than Copenhagen so desperation has met the brick wall.
( PS. I hope he had heaps invested in the Chicago Carbon exchange that has gone down the tube)

Doug
November 19, 2010 1:30 pm

RichieP says: November 19, 2010 at 12:25 pm
(November 19, 2010 at 10:31 am } – may I respectfully correct a typo? Birk, properly, should be Berk, an abbreviation of the Cockney Rhyming Slang expression ‘Berkshire Hunt’. Very apt Doug, very apt, I agree.
——————————————————————————-
RichieP re Berk. Thanks. Knew it was slang – use it frequently verbally – but don’t remember seeing it written.
Douglas

Malcolm Miller
November 19, 2010 1:31 pm

Stern does not represent Britain, any more than his Australian equivalent represents our country. He’s not even a good economist if he doesn’t see that following the strict AGW recommendations would mean lowering our standards of living to mediaeval levels.

Kate
November 19, 2010 1:33 pm

Robinson says: Is Stern an economist?
No, he is not an economist, a scientist, or even an environmentalist. He is actually an investment banker who dreamed up the whole scheme to regulate carbon dioxide emissions worldwide.
By the way, he also tried this “bullying” stunt in China, demanding they impose CO2 regulations or be shut out of exports to the EU, so it’s somewhat amusing to see him say how much the Far East has progressed in this area.

Brian Johnson uk
November 19, 2010 1:33 pm

Yet another of his lordships that barely has an active brain cell.

Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2010 1:33 pm

Stern continues to amaze me. Not only is the emperor naked, he’s hanging in the sky with no visible means of support.

Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2010 1:36 pm

STEPHEN PARKERuk November 19, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Who would you want on your side when the chips are down. the french, indians Chinese, germans italians, and all south americans? Or the english, australians, new zealanders and canadians. It pays to know who your friends really are
Not ALL South Americans. Há os Brasileiros: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Expeditionary_Force

Enneagram
November 19, 2010 1:39 pm

Smokey says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Thanks for the teaching!

Mike M
November 19, 2010 1:43 pm

Snake oil salesman Stern is now angrily threatening us with witchcraft because no one is buying his snake oil. If he cannot send civilization back to the stone age by scaring people into limiting their CO2 then he’ll just have to try to do it by shackling trade with a wave of his magic wand.
If someone told you that you will die unless you take a vaccine for a disease that had no proof of existence but this vaccine had a guaranteed side effect of causing permanent blindness – would you take it? It’s as though Stern is asserting that we should accept blindness as our only hope for survival. Similarly, what he is demanding that we accept, is a very dark looking future indeed – except for arrogant scare mongering elitists like himself of course..

Gunnar Strandell
November 19, 2010 1:47 pm

Who is buying a Brittain car or truck today?
No one, because there are no.
Lord Stern reminds me of the time when fog covered the channel and someone said:
Europe is isolated.
Today it seems the whole world is isolated.
Pity us!

R. de Haan
November 19, 2010 1:49 pm

More Zealots pressing the USA to surrender at Cancun and commit suicide
http://www.environmental-expert.com/resultEachPressRelease.aspx?cid=6511&codi=209402&lr=1

November 19, 2010 1:49 pm

British blackmail in the morning, ahhh how rejuvenating with the morning coffee.
The redcoats are coming, again . . . . didn’t they learn the first time?
John

Binny
November 19, 2010 1:49 pm

Hahahahahaha….fall off chair Hahahahahaha……roll on floor Hahahahahaha……clutch sides……Hahahahahahaha.
God I love upon the pommy aristocracy, the world would indeed be a very boring place without them.

Mike M
November 19, 2010 1:51 pm

Come to think of it…I’m really going to miss all those British goods – as much as my dad missed them back in WW2. /sarc

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