Neue Zürcher Zeitung, 14 November 2010
Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection, says the German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. – Ottmar Edenhofer
For those who may not know, Ottmar Edenhofer is the co-chair of the IPCC Working Group III.
Interview by: Bernard Potter
NZZ am Sonntag: Mr. Eden, everybody concerned with climate protection demands emissions reductions. You now speak of “dangerous emissions reduction.” What do you mean?
Ottmar Edenhofer: So far economic growth has gone hand in hand with the growth of greenhouse gas emissions. One percent growth means one percent more emissions. The historic memory of mankind remembers: In order to get rich one has to burn coal, oil or gas. And therefore, the emerging economies fear CO2 emission limits.
But everybody should take part in climate protection, otherwise it does not work.
That is so easy to say. But particularly the industrialized countries have a system that relies almost exclusively on fossil fuels. There is no historical precedent and no region in the world that has decoupled its economic growth from emissions. Thus, you cannot expect that India or China will regard CO2 emissions reduction as a great idea. And it gets worse: We are in the midst of a renaissance of coal, because oil and gas (sic) have become more expensive, but coal has not. The emerging markets are building their cities and power plants for the next 70 years, as if there would be permanently no high CO 2 price.
The new thing about your proposal for a Global Deal is the stress on the importance of development policy for climate policy. Until now, many think of aid when they hear development policies.
That will change immediately if global emission rights are distributed. If this happens, on a per capita basis, then Africa will be the big winner, and huge amounts of money will flow there. This will have enormous implications for development policy. And it will raise the question if these countries can deal responsibly with so much money at all.
That does not sound anymore like the climate policy that we know.
Basically it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet – and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target. 11 000 to 400 – there is no getting around the fact that most of the fossil reserves must remain in the soil.
De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.
First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.
Nevertheless, the environment is suffering from climate change – especially in the global south.
It will be a lot to do with adaptation. But that just goes far beyond traditional development policy: We will see in Africa with climate change a decline in agricultural yields. But this can be avoided if the efficiency of production is increased – and especially if the African agricultural trade is embedded in the global economy. But for that we need to see that successful climate policy requires other global trade and financial policies.
Full Interview h/t to Dr. Benny Peiser at the GWPF
SouthAmericanGirls,
“Which bubble was triggered by LOW interest rates? I Just want to see examples.”
The housing bubble 2003 to 2007.
“The Standard & Poors 500 bubble started EXACTLY when they started “tightenning” in 1995, see any LOG chart and you will see it.”
Generally, there is a stock market correlation with interest rates, but not in the way you describe. The stock market is generally weak when interest rates are advancing and usually strong when the interest rates are declining. When the general trend of interest rates was up, between 1965 and 1981, the stock market was fairly flat. However, post 1981 as rates began moving down, the stock market advances strongly: 1981 to 1998 was one of the biggest ever secular bull markets, and interest rates came down from 17.5% to between 3 and 5 %.
Of course, there are up down movements in both the market and interest rates, and on short periods it can look as if the stock market is moving up with interest rates, but over decadal time scales this is not the case. Economic theory should also cast doubt on the idea that high interest rates are good for stocks. If interest rates go up, it becomes more expensive for firms to borrow, and the cost of capital rises. Investment tends to come out of riskier assets into higher yielding bonds.
The 1929 expansion was on the back of loose money. If money was tight, as you suggest, then retail investors would not have been buying stock on 10% margin. That is the sort of thing that happens in a low interest environment.
In the early 90’s, Alan Greenspan lowered rates while monitoring consumer prices as indicators of inflation. The fed ignored bubbles in the stock market that was caused directly by an inflationary monetary policy. When the dot.com bubble burst, they lowered rates even more and the housing bubble resulted. The fact that interest rates where higher in the 90’s than post dot.com bubble may have led you to conclude that the nineties where a period of tight money. But that is only relative.
Is this man off his trolley?
Of course the UN IPCC program is designed to redistribute wealth. The problem is that redistribution seems to end when the wealth gets into the hands of the global oligarchs, NGOs and rent seekers. The poor nations will remain impoverished. The entire AGW alarmism scam is the tool used to syphon the wealth of the world into the hands of the most ambitious and dangerous criminal enterprise in history.
Dunno if anyone is interested, but at this link I made three (not extremely structured) comments on the roots of this issue, which may also holds prerequisites to tackle it:
http://notrickszone.com/2010/11/17/postdam-institute-foe-climate-impact-research-global-warming-could-cool-down-temperatures
I’ve seen prof. Schellnhuber — in a presentation by syndicalists — state that AGW is to 90 — or 95 — percent social politics (saved somewhere in my kompjuter…).
I listened to an interview on the radio a few days ago. It would appear that China has been printing money to keep its currency cheap. I thought there was a story in this, not so those on the radio. A quick google found this from 2006
http://cij.inspiriting.com/?p=42#
Printing the Yuan and buying Dollars, then lending it back to the American people. Thats what I call a redistribution plan.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11797026
It’s likely to give them an inflation problem though.
Oh, come on, Ottmar Edenhofer, quit pussy footin’ around. Tell the whole truth:
‘And in private sessions, the world’s super elite will discuss how global wealth distribution will result in massive depopulation, hopefully around 90%, thus resulting in the return of feudalism – our favorite form of governance and ultimate goal.’
galileonardo says:
November 18, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Bingo, despite some of the protests I see. I was reading through the comments waiting for someone to point out what is the real goal of the global governance/redistribution agenda. The agenda isn’t about helping the poor. It is about the effort to “make sure there is not another United States.” I wrote about this at length a while back on The Air Vent (thanks Jeff): ….
________________________________________________________
Thanks for pointing out what I was going to say.
I would like to add that the REAL redistribution is from the poor to the very wealthy. For example the Grace commission report to President Regan found:
“Importantly, any meaningful increases in taxes from personal income would have to come from lower and middle income families, as 90 percent of all personal taxable income is generated below the taxable income level of $35,000.
Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
* One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.
* Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy-a vicious cycle that must be broken.
* With two-thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.” http://www.uhuh.com/taxstuff/gracecom.htm
Here are a few other key points to remember every time you see a politician create more bureaucracy:
As Graham F. Towers, Governor of the Central Bank of Canada stated:
“That is the Banking business, just in the same way that a steel plant makes steel. (p. 287) The manufacturing process consists of making a pen-and-ink or typewriter entry on a card in a book. That is all. (pp. 76 and 238) Each and every time a bank makes a loan (or purchases securities), new bank credit is created… “
http://www.michaeljournal.org/appenE.htm
In contract law (U.S. Universal Commercial Code) a contract (mortgage) is null and void if there is no exchange of “consideration” (value) or if the exchange of “consideration” is vastly unequal.
As legal precedence has shown in First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969) The court rejected the bank’s claim for foreclosure. The judge, Justice Mahoney stated:
“Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, . . . did create the entire $14,000.00 in money and credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note.” http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/dollar-deception.php
THIS establishes that the banks have no moral, contractual, or legal right to collect the debts they have created out of nothing! So where the HECK has the money (wealth) come from and to WHOM is the debt owed???
Luckily better brains than I have pondered that question and came up with the answer:
From Mises on Money:
“When new money is created it does not appear magically in equal percentages in all people’s bank accounts or under their mattresses. Therefore money spreads unevenly, and this process has varying effects on individuals, depending on whether they receive early or late access to the new money.
It is these losses of the groups that are the last to be reached by the variation in the value of money which ultimately constitute the source of the profits made by the bankers and the groups most closely connected with them. “ http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north84.html
This of course is well known among the thieves stealing from us and they make sure THEY get their “just” pay.
“In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker.” http://timelines.ws/subjects/Labor.HTML
So the next time your Socialist/Communist/Progressive friends bring up the subject of “Redistribution of wealth” you now have the ammunition to show how all the “socialist programs” from FDR’s New Deal on have moved the wealth straight into the bankers and their friends pockets!!!
Please note that FDR CONFISCATED all gold owned by U.S. citizens and gave it to the Federal Reserve Banks who in turn gave it to the Bank of England (Rothchild)
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, Seventy-third Congress, Second Session
Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Apostle of Irredeemable Paper Money
SPEECH OF LOUIS T. McFADDEN of Pennsylvania
In the House of Representatives Wednesday, January 24, 1934.
“….You see, Mr. Chairman, under this bill the United States Treasury has to pay for the gold. Although the gold belongs to the people and was taken away from their bank deposits and their cash registers and their pocketbooks in the first place and put into the Federal Reserve banks, and although the Federal Reserve banks tricked and fooled the people into giving it to them for Federal Reserve currency, which they now refuse to redeem, and although that gold does not belong to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks, the United States Treasury has to pay the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks for it….
The gold certificates will give the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks legal title to the gold, and the United States Treasury will be nothing more than its physical custodian. The Secretary of the Treasury will give the Federal Reserve banks gold for their new gold certificates whenever they ask for it. It is a fraudulent transfer.
When the individual citizens of the United States were required to surrender their gold they were required to surrender their gold certificates as well as their gold coin and bullion. The Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks are private corporations, but they did not obey the gold orders. They did not surrender any gold coin, gold certificates, or gold bullion. On the contrary, the gold which was commandeered from the people was given to them as a free gift, … “ http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/blog/fester/mcfadden-exposes-fdrs-protocols-gold-swindle
More on the connections of the bankers and TREASON:
“Dall, who was married to Franklin Roosevelt’s daughter Anna, …
portrays the legendary president not as a leader but as a “quarterback” with little actual power. The “coaching staff” consisted of a coterie of handlers (“advisers” like Louis Howe, Bernard Baruch and Harry Hopkins) who represented the international banking cartel. For Dall, FDR ultimately was a traitor manipulated by “World Money”
…But FDR advisers Henry Morgenthau and Harry Dexter White arranged for U.S. treasury printing plates to be sent to Russia so the Communists could print their own US money. They arranged $8 billion in lend lease aid to Russia after the war was over. Col. Dall personally confronted Louis Howe over Russian agents he saw meeting Howe in the White House. FDR Advisors as Wall Street Bankers were for supporting Communism and prefered to enrich themselves from wars…. http://hubpages.com/hub/FDR__my_exploited_father-in-law_by_Col_Curtis_Dall
The infamous and evil IMF and World Bank was formed during FDR reign too.
“Harry Dexter White: the man behind Bretton Woods, the World Bank and the IMF was a Soviet Spy: Harry Dexter White (1892 – 1948) was an American economist and senior U.S. Treasury department official. He was a primary mover behind the Bretton Woods Conference, the formations of the World Bank and the IMF (International Monetary Fund).” http://hubpages.com/hub/Harry_Dexter_White
And do not forget the author of the Federal Reserve Act was German Banker Paul Warburg. His brother Max funded Lenin and his revolutionaries.
“We have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet – and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target”.
We have even more natural gas and shale gas “under our feet” and we are swimming in oil.
That’s good news.
Our only problem is this abundance of fruit cakes who intend to ruin the future of our civilization.
Fortunately our history teaches us how to deal such an inconvenience.
The quote allegedly from Edenhofer at the top of the article is fake. It has been ‘massaged’ if you will.
“Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection, says the German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. – Ottmar Edenhofer”
But also the headline is not a quote from an IPCC official. It does not appear in the interview. Edenhofer did not say it. It is someone else’s take or spin on what he said. This is about learning how to read critically. This means reading past the headline for a start.
—————
Mike says:
November 18, 2010 at 6:34 pm
The lead quote is fake. Read the interview carefully – though I’d be leery of the translation too. They pasted together some of Edenhofer’s remarks out of context and added a few words out of thin air. This is a propaganda trick. The headline looks like a quote and frames how you read the interview. In fact many readers won’t even read the whole interview but will come away with a false impression. Some of you above have already taken the fake quote and put quotation marks around it. This will spread to other blogs and even op-ed pieces. This is how the propaganda mill works. You are seeing happen. Pay attention to the man behind the curtain!
REPLY: The original headline:
Klimapolitik verteilt das Weltvermögen neu
The online translation:
Climate policy distributes the world’s new wealth.
Seems OK to me. – Anthony
Let’s look at the German:
«Klimapolitik verteilt das Weltvermögen neu»
Klimaschutz hat mit Umweltschutz kaum mehr etwas zu tun, sagt der Ökonom Ottmar Edenhofer. Der nächste Weltklimagipfel in Cancún sei eigentlich ein Wirtschaftsgipfel, bei dem es um die Verteilung der Ressourcen gehe. Interview: Bernhard Pötter
And compare with:
IPCC Official: “Climate Policy Is Redistributing The World’s Wealth”
Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection, says the German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer. The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. – Ottmar Edenhofer
——————
In the original, the headline is not directly attributed to anyone. GWPF added the “IPCC Official:” as though this was direct quote. It is not. “However, it looks like you added the “– Ottmar Edenhofer”. That’s not on the GWPF version. Probably that was an honest mistake. Only you know.
The German says “Klimapolitik” which is “Climate politics” not “Climate policy.” Climate politics is not, in most of the world, about debating the science – like here. It is about solving the problem. And “Klimaschutz” means “Climate protection” not “Climate policy.” These are subtle differences but they affect the tone. That last sentence should read: “The next world climate summit in Cancún will actually be an economic summit concerning the distribution of the resources. ”
It is true that purpose of the Cancun summit is not to debate the science. They will assume the overwhelming majority of scientists are correct – as they should – and instead discuss economic issues like who should pay for adaptation measures in poorer countries. And if there is a price on carbon then the net wealth of coal and oil reserves will decrease and the value of nuclear power plants with incraese. These are important matters on which reasonable people can disagree (and I’m sure will). But, saying the purpose of the summit is to redistribute the world’s wealth is putting a great deal of right leaning spin on it.
The interview itself was interesting a worth reading. I do wish I had the time to check the entire translation for accuracy and “interpretative license.”
—–
BTW: It you want to read something interesting check out the December issue of The Atlantic.
Dirty Coal, Clean Future
To environmentalists, “clean coal” is an insulting oxymoron. But for now, the only way to meet the world’s energy needs, and to arrest climate change before it produces irreversible cataclysm, is to use coal—dirty, sooty, toxic coal—in more-sustainable ways. The good news is that new technologies are making this possible. China is now the leader in this area, the Google and Intel of the energy world. If we are serious about global warming, America needs to work with China to build a greener future on a foundation of coal. Otherwise, the clean-energy revolution will leave us behind, with grave costs for the world’s climate and our economy.
By James Fallow
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/12/dirty-coal-clean-future/8307/
Thanks SO much, Smokey (and, to Jimbo and Douglas, of COURSE to Anthony for providing this site for all of us to gather… and to ALL OF YOU, at other times ~ ’cause when I think I’m surrounded by Village Idiots, I come here, read your comments and am once again inspired to keep believing in humanity.)
I’m also gonna keep prayin’ for Mr. George Schwartz AND even that non-American Barry Soetoro, or whatever Soros wanted his name to be, (and I’ll be smoking, while I do it!) ~
I smoke Winfield Reds right now, at least while here in Australia… I ‘saw’ on the pack about a year ago, that around the logo where these words: “FORCE NO FRIEND ~ FEAR NO FOE” ~ so, that in itself, inspired me to keep buying them! (warm truthful smiles) But, now with ‘Greenies’ labeling efforts, they’ve taken away the words, but they’re still in my heart, regardless.
P.S. Guys……… I loathe being crude, but my background pre-Jesus was pretty intense, (I’ve been forgiven MUCH MUCH MUCH) and if ANYONE wants to ‘view’
the ‘essence’ of the GREEN MOVEMENT the only thing they need to see ~ (but, I’d advise a WHOLE LOT OF PRAYER BEFORE YOU DO) is to rent the movie “THE
GREEN DOOR” (it’s awful, it’s wickedness in it’s basest form) and you will see that this is ALL ABOUT evil and masking it. After watching it, you’ll never need to read
another article or have to wonder about what the top-most “Greenies” are all about.
While we ‘reduce’ ‘reuse’ and ‘re-cycle’ they’re behind us ~ laughing at how we’re such ‘Sheep’……… BUT, they don’t yet ‘see’ that SOME OF GOD’S SHEEP WERE JUST LIKE THEY WERE and we’ve learned to be as wise as serpents while maintaining our innocent dove-heart natures which He instills within each of us. You don’t MESS with a sheep that KNOWS WHAT’S GOIN’ ON ~ ’cause his SHEPARD WILL WHUP YOUR ASS!!!
An’ like that little girl on Laugh-In…….I’m sayin’: “An’ that’s the TRUTH…”
C.L. Thorpe ~ a grateful sheep (who tends to over 800 of them in our paddocks)
The Brazen Ones are trying to double down and sweep the table. The odds don’t look good for them, so I don’t know if it’s sheer delusion or if they actually have some hope of pulling it off.
To the ramparts!
Yawn. 5 years ago I would have thought this impossible. 3 years ago unlikely. 2 years ago likely. 1 year ago, certain.
Woodnfish “Nevertheless, the environment is suffering from climate change – especially in the global south.
When you begin with false assumptions it is impossible to find the truth. Of course, there is also the fact that these people are not interested in the truth.”
No, I disagree here – these people actually believe it to be true – and this the frightening aspect of it – ignorant sincerity that is in charge of the world’s governments and bureaucracies. Irrespective of what advances me make in demolishing CAGW, it is all to naught because they are simply ignoring us. They have cut us some slack but that is all, and the program continues as planned.
Mike’s point about the translation from the German is correct – heck there are some phrases in German (and Dutch for that matter) that have no literal analogs in English.
Anthony’s work here has simply highlighted the problems institutionalised science always had – mediocrity and its elevation to power. More pointedly it’s scientific incompetence more than anything that is in play here.
That said, or wrote :-), it’s also due to the phenomenon of cargo-science as defined by Feynman – that aping the scientific method does not necessarily mean you understand the scientific method, especially when you come from a back ground of intellectualism as defined by Thomas Sowell where the power of argument trumps all.
CAGW happened because that particular science became disconnected from physical reality and stalled itself in a computerised mathematical cul de sac. Heck, despite the falisfiication of Keynesian economics that fallacy is still being used to direct economic policy here in Oz, the US and Europe. So battling on irregardless of the scientific falsification of CAGW is to expected frome the IPCC and its minions. They have talked themselves into believing its true, and act on that assumption.
This things has not played itself out at all.
brc says: November 18, 2010 at 3:01 pm and DCC says: November 18, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Good points- remains to be seen whether the new Stock Exchange or trade will be used to re-distribute wealth or improve industry for eg Zimbabwe or any other for that matter. In Australia we have the Indigenous Stock Exchange.
http://www.thezimbabwemail.com/zimbabwe/6582.html
Gail Combs says: November 19, 2010 at 1:04 pm and Baa Humbug says: November 18, 2010 at 7:17 pm and John Marshall says: November 19, 2010 at 2:59 am
When is the parable of the fish or any other crustacean for that matter going to remain in the Bible, where it belongs?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/mugabes-lobster-and-caviar-binge/story-e6frg6uf-1111118806804
_____________________________________________________________
Comment on original article, albeit with no knowledge of the German language
The parable at the end of interview http://thegwpf.org/ipcc-news/1877-ipcc-official-climate-policy-is-redistributing-the-worlds-wealth.html
Could we the ethics in order to break the gridlock?
was vaguely familiar …………………..
‘The Alchemist’ Paulo Coelho (originally O Alquimista, published in Portuguese, Brazil 1988)
The key character, Santiago (Andalusian shepherd-boy) travels to the Egyptian desert in search of treasure. On the way he meets various characters, the main one being The Alchemist. Naturally Santiago learns to speak with the desert, the sun, the wind and so on. And learn of love (Soul of the World), his own Personal Legend and the mystery of the Emerald Tablet (the direct passage to the Soul of the World) which has a code on it.
The novel writes such gems as ……..’She knows that men have to go away in order to return.’ and ..’Let me tell you what will happen. You’ll be the counselor of the oasis. You have enough gold to buy many sheep and many camels. …..You’ll learn to love the desert and you’ll get to know every one of the fifty thousand palms. You’ll watch them as they grow, demonstrating how the world is always changing…..And you’ll get better and better at understanding omens, because the desert is the best teacher there is.’……. p118-9
…….’The boy turned to the hand that wrote all. As he did so, he sensed that the universe had fallen silent, and he decided not to speak.’……… p151
(English version, 1993, Harper Collins Publishers)
Of course it should be remembered the novel provided mid-way, this parable: ……..’Then during the fourth year, the omens will abandon you, because you stopped listening to them. The tribal chieftains will see to that, and you’ll be dismissed from your position of counselor. But, by then you will be a rich merchant, with many camels and a great deal of merchandise ..’
I wonder if the poor (thats not in $ but life quality or not) people in Zimbabwe will get something from their own (internal) government?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/mbeki-tries-to-stop-zimbabwe-poll/story-e6frg6uf-1111116685770
But as Coelho writes …‘Sit down. We’ll have something to drink and eat these hawks, said the alchemist. The boy suspected that they were the same hawks he had seen on the day before, but he said nothing…… When a person really desires something, all the universe conspires to help that person to realise his dream…echoing the words of the old king. The boy understood….’
Isn’t that consensus?
PS Someone has been busy on wiki with Mugabe.
Re Bill Illis says:
November 18, 2010 at 4:57 pm
You are correct Bill, but the reality is they take the money and “claim” how it reduced emissions, while developing ever more fossile fuel energy production.
Socialists always redistribute wealth to themselves and “equalize” things by pulling the top down rather than by raising the bottom up thereby creating a wealthy class of those who are politically connected and a huge lower class and avoiding the creation of, or destroy an existing, middle class. “Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he will never be hungry again”. Look at all the millions of dollars that have been “given” to Haiti and they are still poor. I thought that we had thrown socialism on to the trash heap of history long ago. Where do these idiots come from?
Jim G says: November 20, 2010 at 9:13 am
Look at all the millions of dollars that have been “given” to Haiti and they are still poor. I thought that we had thrown socialism on to the trash heap of history long ago. Where do these idiots come from?
=========================
Years ago, just after the Berlin Wall came down, a friend of mine – a socialist who was doing pretty well in banking at the time – told me that now false socialism had been exposed, we could now move onto real socialism.
Right, so we’d had decades of socialist experiments of various sorts which had ended in ruin and cost millions of lives, but these weren’t proper socialism and it was time to carry out a new variation on the theme……….
This is the same. Is anyone being asked if they want their wealth redistributed? Of course not. This particular scheme has had to be done under the lie of CAGW. Is there any evidence that chucking money at the Third World has done anything but harm, as in the Haiti example?
But, here we go again. I don’t think it’s so much stupidity as a streak of human nature which starts movements which begin as altruistic and which quickly turn into something which is self-serving, wasteful, dangerous and counter-productive.
It is not called Eco-Socialism for no reason at all, it is because the discourse has been switched from outright ‘Wealth Redistribution’ to ‘Saving The Planet from X Crisis’.
However the fact remains the same, it is a spin-off of Socialism.
The Taxation goes to several interested parties; fund the third world countries for their vote in UN and COP15/16, fund the Institutional Investor Group for Climate Change (IIGCC) led by Goldman Sachs (USA and Australia), provide provide capitalists for the contracted solar/wind/geothermal infrastucture (Siemens), provide returns on investment by having the funds lent to governments (Deutsche Bank), allow corrupt ‘scientists’ a career path as advisors, investors and consultants in corporate, think-tanks and government agencies.
Socialism or a comprehensive system of corruption and exploitation?
The Carbon Tax which is supposed to be the Solution is but the tip of the Global Warming’s Iceberg; it is meant to fund several layers of finance, infrastructure, institutional funds, energy trade, regional integration, free movement of labour and much more.
It goes by the names of Smart Grid, Desertec.org, Global Green Grid, National Broadband Network (the brain rationing power for the smart grid, Kyoto Targets in Australia).
Without the ETS, Carbon Tax, Price and subsidies the construction of the “renewable” Energy Infrastructure can’t be released thus dashing the plans of economic and eventual political integration as done with the EU’s original coal and steel community.
The Carbon/Energy Economy has its origins in the 1920’s Technocracy Inc and its system of central planning with the Energy Card, at the time the technology was missing element to bring the plan into fruition.
http://www.global-green-grid.com/content/content-paie-economics/cb-therollout.html
http://www.dii-eumena.com/
http://www.technocracy.org/transition/energy-distribution-card/118-energy-distribution-card
The Technocratic Origins of the Smart Grid and the Renewable Energy Infrastructure
http://www.augustforecast.com/2010/03/03/smart-grid-the-implementation-of-technocracy-2/
The Report on the role of EU, North Africa (NA) and Middle East (ME) project to merge the trans-continental Solar Power, Wind and Geo-thermal Power Grid knowns
DESERTEC-EUMENA from the Australian Parliament Record Hansard.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BN/2008-09/MediterraneanUnion.htm#conclusion
The Union for the Mediterranean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_union
DESERTEC.ORG from the Club of Rome
http://www.desertec.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperSmart_Grid
http://www.roadmap2050.eu/
JPeden’s assertion that Iran has not abided by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty is patently false.
Under a deal forged with Turkey and Brazil, Iran would hand over 1,200 kilograms of low-enriched uranium to Turkey. In exchange, Tehran would receive further enriched nuclear fuel.
Iran has repeatedly proposed solutions to assuage fears that it could be developing nuclear capability for means other than power generation. One of these proposals involved handing low-enriched uranium impossible to use for weaponry over to Turkey, which would provide Iran with nuclear fuel in return. But that wasn’t acceptable to those who only get their news from Tel Aviv and its minions in the mainstream media.
Meanwhile, Israel, a known nuclear superpower getting $30 billion worth of the most advanced fighter jets ever developed just for temporarily delaying the construction of illegal settlements in occupied territory, is not even a signatory to the treaty.