Eight tenths of a degree? Think of the Grandchildren!

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

James Hansen and others say that we owe it to our Grandchildren to get this climate question right. Hansen says “Grandchildren” with a capital G when he speaks of them so I will continue the practice. I mean, for PR purposes, Grandchildren with a capital letter outrank even Puppies with a capital letter, and I can roll with that.

In any case Hansen got me to thinking about the world of 2050. Many, likely even most people reading this in 2010 will have Grandchildren in 2050. Heck, I might have some myself. So I started to consider the world we will leave our Grandchildren in 2050.

In a recent post here on WUWT, Thomas Fuller floated a proposal that we adopt a couple of degrees as the expected temperature rise over the century. He says in the comments to his thread that

I think we owe it to the people of the world to give them an idea of how much warming they can expect, so they can plan their buildings, businesses, roads and lives. They matter. They don’t care how much of it is due to CO2 or how much is rebound from a LIA due to forcings we don’t understand. They don’t. They probably shouldn’t.

We have temperature rises that we can almost trust from 1958 that show a trend of about 2 degrees for this century if things go on.

To start with, I don’t think we owe people anything more than the scientific truth as we understand it. And if we don’t understand it, as in the case of what the climate may be like over the rest of this century, we definitely owe it to the people to simply say “We don’t know”. Those three little words, so hard to say … so no, we don’t owe people a number if we don’t have one.

Next, predicting the future by extending a linear “trend” is a bad idea, because it puts a totally false air of accuracy and scientific reliability on something that we haven’t much of a clue about, except we’re very sure it’s not linear … As Mark Twain famously wrote of that kind of extrapolation:

In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. That is an average of a trifle over one mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the Old Oolitic Silurian Period, just a million years ago next November, the Lower Mississippi River was upwards of one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf of Mexico like a fishing-rod.

And by the same token any person can see that seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Lower Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long, and Cairo and New Orleans will have joined their streets together, and be plodding comfortably along under a single mayor and a mutual board of aldermen. There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

So extending linear trends is not a good plan, particularly in our current state of knowledge of the climate. The planet may be warmer in fifty years, or it may be cooler in fifty years, we don’t know.

But let’s set all of those difficulties aside. Here’s Fuller’s proposal graphically, using HadCRUT data. (As an aside, the trend 1958-2010 in the HadCRUT data is actually 1.3° per century, not 2°/century as Fuller states. So his figures are an exaggeration of the historical trend.)

Figure 1. A grapical representation of Thomas Fullers proposal that we decree that expected warming will be 2° over the 21st century. Image Source

However, Fuller’s proposal along with a comment from Michael Tobin got me to thinking. How about that two degrees per century, what if it actually happens? That two degrees has always been the big scare number, the tipping point, the temperature rise that would lead to the dread Thermageddon, the temperature where we fall into planetary immolation. So I got to pondering James Hansen’s statement about the Grandchildren, and also Fullers postulation of a historically unlikely 2°warming this century. Two degrees per century is eight-tenths of a degree by 2050, so my questions were:

What would I do differently if I knew for a fact that my Grandchildren would be eight-tenths of a degree warmer in 2050? Or alternatively, how would I feel if I knew for a fact that I had sentenced my as-yet-unborn Grandchildren in 2050 to live in a world that was eight-tenths of a degree warmer?

And you know, I couldn’t think of one single thing about buildings, or businesses, or roads, or lives, that I’d do differently for eight tenths of a degree by 2050. Not one thing. Even if I knew it was coming, I don’t know what that slight warming will do, so what would I do to get my Grandchildren and Puppies and business and bridges ready for it? How would I know what to do to prepare my buildings and roads and life for eight tenths of a degree of warming?

There might be some adverse outcomes from that eight tenths of a degree of temperature rise threatening my Grandchildren in 2050, but neither I nor anyone else knows what those outcomes might be. We’ll assuredly get an extra flood over here, and one less flood over there, it’s very likely to be drier somewhere and wetter somewhere else, in other words, the climate will do what climate has done since forever — change.

But anyone who says they can predict exactly where the floods and droughts might be in that unknown climate future is blowing smoke. And I don’t know if we could even tell if the average temperature changed by eight-tenths of a degree. Here’s why:

Let’s take a real look at what that means, eight-tenths of a degree. Here is the record for the GHCN climate station nearest to me these days, Santa Rosa, California.

Figure 2. GISS Unadjusted and Adjusted Temperature records, Santa Rosa, CA. Adjusted temperature is shown in transparent red, to show the Unadjusted underneath (blue). Bottom panel shows the amount of the adjustment.

Santa Rosa has pretty good record, mostly complete from 1902 to the present. Now, there are a number of issues with the GISS adjustments to this station. Before adjustment there is a slight cooling, and after adjustment that has become a slight warming. Who knew that the urban heat island might work in reverse? In addition, the adjustment in recent years is very rapid. Seems counterintuitive.

However, none of the details of the adjustment is my issue today. Today, I want to highlight the fact that the adjustment in the Santa Rosa record is about a degree in a century. So the uncertainty in the historical record is at the very least about a degree. And this is a good record.

Now, which one is right, the adjusted or the unajusted temperature? Unfortunately, there’s no way to tell. Why? Because an adjustment of a degree in a century is lost in the noise. We often see winters and summers that are three or four degrees warmer or colder than the preceding year or two. We see warm decades and cool decades. A degree is simply not enough change to notice. The oldest men and women living in Santa Rosa couldn’t tell us whether average temperatures were a degree warmer on average when they were kids than they are now. And our thermometers can’t do any better. We simply don’t know whether the ~ 1°C adjustment to the Santa Rosa record is valid or not.

My point is that the adjustment is almost a full degree. This is slightly larger than the predicted temperature rise in the scary stories about 2050 and the Grandchildren and the Puppies. And since the adjustment of nearly 1°C in Santa Rosa is so small that we can’t determine if the adjustment is correct, why should I be concerned about eight-tenths of a degree in 2050? We can’t even measure temperature to that accuracy in a site with good historical records, and I should worry about that unmeasurable change?? I don’t think so.

So no, I’m sorry. I refuse to be scared, even by Fuller’s exaggeration of a linear extrapolation of a cherry-picked trend. I have no problem if my Grandchildren have to face a world in 2050 that is eight-tenths of a degree warmer than it is now, more power to them. Without alarmist scientists armed with megaphones and performance-enhancing mathematics, how would we even know if it were eight-tenths of a degree warmer in Santa Rosa in 2050? Our scientists can’t decide if there is a 1° change in the Santa Rosa record, and yet we’re supposed to fear a smaller change by 2050? I think not.

And what catastrophes will eight tenths of a degree bring? We see decadal swings in the Santa Rosa record that are much greater than that, and there are no ill effects. Yes, I know there’s hosts of scientists out there telling me that awful things will happen from Thomas Fullers stipulated warming, but here is my question:

First, let’s assume that the AGW folks are correct, and that global warming will lead to global catastrophes of a variety of types, all the biblical plagues plus a host more.  Increasing temperatures is supposed to lead to more extreme weather and terrible outcomes, a perfect storm of hundreds of bad effects in what I have termed “Thermageddon”.

Next, let’s note that the globe has been warming, in fits and starts but generally warming, since the Little Ice Age. Estimates of the amount of the warming are on the order of one and a half to two degrees C.

And finally, note that since 1958 (to use Fuller’s start point) we have had much faster warming for half a century.

So my questions are … where are all of the catastrophes from that couple of degrees of warming since the Little Ice Age, and from the half century fast warming since 1958? I mean, James Hansen would excoriate the Elizabethans because they bequeathed not only their Grandchildren, but their great-great Grandchildren, a warmer world. I don’t know how the Elizabethans slept at night, after wishing a degree or more of warming on their poor innocent Grandchildren. And puppies. But where are the catastrophes from the couple of degrees of slow warming since the 1600s?

Seriously, people keep saying that the problem with the climate is that we can’t do laboratory experiments. But for the past three centuries we have two excellent natural experiments. In the first we saw warming century after century, and yet we didn’t experience Thermageddon. Where are the catastrophes?

Then in the second natural experiment we have the much faster warming Fuller talked about since 1958, as shown in Figure 1. During that time the Pacific atolls have gotten bigger, and Bangladesh has more hectares of land. People are better fed than at any time in history. There has been no increase in extreme weather events. Where are the catastrophes resulting from those two natural experiments in slow and fast warming?

So no, I don’t worry about eight tenths of a degree warming by 2050. I sleep content, knowing that my Grandchildren might actually get to the point where they could measure eight tenths of a degree of warming and have a scientific reason to agree on the size of the adjustments … I figure they’ll be able to do it, they’ll be smarter and richer and more powerful than we are, with undreamed of technologies. Heck, they may find out that it actually did warm by eight-tenths of a degree between now and 2050. And by then they may actually have found out whether or not CO2 is the main planetary temperature control knob. And likely they will have a variety of other energy sources at that time.

But regarding the eight tenths of a degree of warming by 2050, I just don’t see what catastrophes that will cause in the real world for my Grandchildren. It certainly hasn’t caused catastrophes up until now.

But then people say, never mind the Grandchildren, what about the other species? Won’t their ranges change?

I’m at about Latitude 38 North. The global average temperature change as one goes north or south at that latitude is about one degree per hundred miles.

So under the Thomas Fuller 2°C assumption, the average isotherms will move 80 miles north by 2050. Again, this is lost in the noise. These kinds of changes have been happening in the climate since forever. The world generally doesn’t even notice. Eight tenths of a degree is just too small, it is dwarfed by the daily, monthly, annual, and decadal temperature swings.

Oh, people will say, but the warming in this case will be much faster than in the past, that’s where the problem will come in. But those people forget that all life adapts very quickly. It has to because the temperature changes so much and so quickly. When the temperature often changes by three degrees from one year to the next, either up or down, plants and animals must (and can) adapt to that change in a single year. The idea that plants and animals can’t adapt to eight tenths of a degree by 2050 doesn’t make sense, when they can easily adapt to a three degree swing up or down in a single year. And we have seen that in the rapid warming since 1958 that Fuller highlighted, there haven’t been any catastrophes, either among humans, animals, or plants. So the “fast warming causes catastrophes” claim doesn’t work either.

Final Conclusion? I’m sorry to be so contrary, friends, but I just don’t see that even Thomas Fuller’s exaggerated (by historical standards) 2° per century warming will bring any kind of problems or catastrophes. The IPCC’s greatest projected warming is said to occur in the extra-tropics, in the winter, at night.

And at the end of the day, you can call me a callow, unfeeling neo-Elizabethan brute willing to sentence his Grandchildren to a warmer world, but I’m not going to lose sleep over having less frigid December midnights in Helsinki Finland, or over Thomas Fuller’s possible (not guaranteed but only possible) eight tenths of a degree of warming by 2050. Warming has not caused catastrophes in the past, and if future warming does happen, there is no reason to expect catastrophes from that either.

I know mine is a minority view. But to change my mind, you’ll have to show me that warming in the past has caused catastrophes and huge problems. Until then, I’m not going to believe that warming in the future will cause catastrophes and huge problems, especially warming that we can barely measure.

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J.Hansford
October 22, 2010 9:12 am

A damn fine informative and entertaining post Willis…. I too, go to sleep at night knowing all future “G”randchildren and “P”uppies will be safe n’ snug come 2050….. 😉

October 22, 2010 9:20 am

Willis;
Your evaluation of the puedo-dangers of global warming or climate change due to AGW is outstanding. It clearly shows the level of stupidity that the proponents of AGW have reached.
One paradox that befalls the climate controllers by carbon credits and such is that the affect of CO2 is not linear but logarithmic. A decrease in the amount of CO2 does not decrease the global temperature in a linear manner but in a diminishing rate of return. A large projected increase in global temperature would require a Herculean effort to shut down all the sources of CO2 and to find someway to capture CO2 and bottle it. The people of the western world would have end up freezing in the dark. On the other hand if the projections are small as you use in your post, 0.8 of a degree in 40 years, the issue of a projected increase in temperature is trivial.
Will your arguments stop the continual predictions of Thermageddon? Has logic worked in the past? Unfortunately, the global warming has long ago left the world of critical reasoning and become a political cause based on religious fervor and belief. Thanks for the great essay. The people who need to read it, won’t.

huxley
October 22, 2010 9:26 am

But one of the characteristics that makes us so adaptable as a species is the ability to plan ahead.
Thomas Fuller: As you can see and apparently not refute, no one here is concerned about a gradual 2C rise in temperatures by 2100. What sort of “plan[ning] ahead” do you think is required?
In any event, your 2C scenario won’t satisfy the climate change crowd at all. It’s almost as bad as saying that temperatures will stabilize where they are now. The force of climate change arguments is that we don’t know how much climate will change — it could be as high 4.5C, which I’m not sure even Willis E. would be sanguine about.
The climate change movement requires their catastrophic scenarios and you are foreclosing that possibility for this century at least.

October 22, 2010 9:28 am

How many stars are there in the universe?
hmm. simply because we dont know a number exactly does not imply that we know nothing about the number or the likely range

October 22, 2010 9:31 am

I had the thermostat set at 72 degrees for our party. Everything was going fine, when suddenly, people all around me started to pass out. I too felt woozy. I didn’t know what to do!
Luckily, my wife noticed that someone reset the thermostat to 72.8 degrees. She changed it back to 72 degrees and everyone who had passed out woke back up. Man, I had no idea that .8 degrees made such an impact!
True story, as far as you know.

Michael Jankowski
October 22, 2010 9:34 am

If not enough dire weather events have happened since the LIA, during the 20th century in Santa Rosa, etc, then there’s the catch-all response:
It’s in the pipeline!

Vince Causey
October 22, 2010 9:44 am

This is an excellent article from Willis, as was his post yesterday on Fuller’s thread.
What Fuller proposed yesterday was not science. It was Ravetz’s PNS repackaged for the unthinking masses. This is dangerous politicking; let’s assume a 2 degree temperature rise and give that to the policy makers as if it were fact.
Thank God Willis is on the case.

October 22, 2010 9:49 am

Excellent post again, Willis, but you are getting a little behind the play – the George Monbiot and other arch-Greenists of the world are now promoting ‘biodiversity’ and telling the world how improving agricultural method and equipment to feed the world’s peoples is endangering it. Global Warming is so passe it doesn’t frighten the horses anymore. Even Climate Disruption isn’t so scary when the citizens have the facts.
No wonder only poor George’s acolytes take him seriously any more.

PB-in-AL
October 22, 2010 9:49 am

“…so what would I do to get my Grandchildren and Puppies and business and bridges ready for it?”
Invest in companies that make Bermuda shorts, t-shirts, and portable, battery-powered fans (the ones with the little spray bottle attached). And you might consider buying an air-brush t-shirt booth on the beach, but make sure it’s well above the “rising” tide line. 😉

Dave Wendt
October 22, 2010 10:04 am

Steven Mosher says:
October 22, 2010 at 9:28 am
How many stars are there in the universe?
hmm. simply because we dont know a number exactly does not imply that we know nothing about the number or the likely range
The difference is that no one is demanding that the world put a pistol to our collective heads and pull the trigger based on our uncertain knowledge of the number of stars in the universe, and we probably have a better SWAG on that number than we have for GAT, given that the major satellite and surface station data sets rarely provide a “consensus” number they all agree with for even the GAT anomaly, for points in the era for which we, at least theoretically, should have the best measurements we can currently produce.

David L.
October 22, 2010 10:05 am

Steven Mosher says:
October 22, 2010 at 9:28 am
“How many stars are there in the universe?
hmm. simply because we dont know a number exactly does not imply that we know nothing about the number or the likely range”
Interesting to think about. I would argue that we have no idea how many stars are in the universe, not even the range. All those little blips on even the highest resolution Hubble images are 1) stars , 2) galaxies or 3) twin galaxies, 4) other? This directly impacts knowing even the magnitude.
I heard once on NPR I believe (and this is almost unbelievable) that biologists that are worried about endangered species have a huge problem of not even knowing how many species are on the planet.. They don’t even have an idea of the range or order of magnitude. Now I find this almost impossible to believe and haven’t verified this “fact”. But, if it’s true we don’t know the number of species on the planet within an order of magnitude, we can’t possibly know the magnitude of stars in the universe. Come to think of it, do we even know if there’s only one universe?

October 22, 2010 10:09 am

Brilliant as always Willis!

gt
October 22, 2010 10:13 am

We certain owe our children and Grandchildren a lot. We have tagged them with many trillions of dollars in debt, and many more trillions of dollars in obligations which they will never be able to get rid of. We have designed a system so that they will be eternally indebted to bankers with no way out (just like us). We have sent them to many unnecessary wars and have destroyed a lot of lives, both physically and mentally. We have loaded their (and our) bodies with thousands of harmful chemicals through either REAL pollution (cut the CO2 crap) or food and water additives. We have indoctrinated them with many half-truths and blatant falsehoods so they can’t tell right from wrong (just like us). Yes, we owe our children and Grandchildren a lot. They have every right to despise us.

dbleader61
October 22, 2010 10:17 am

Sitting here in AGW sapped/zapped government bureaucracy, my reading of another excerpt from the book of E. during coffee enables me to get on with my day. Thank you so much Willis.

Theo Goodwin
October 22, 2010 10:21 am

You have written the definitive paper on climate policy for this time. I fully endorse your position. By the way, Richard Lindzen holds a similar position. He has said that debates about tenths of a degree in temperature change are nonsense.

vivendi
October 22, 2010 10:25 am

The voice of reason. Where can I sign up?
Excellent article. I’m myself a grandchild and I already have grandchildren. Nobody in our family would want to blame our ancestors for whatever they did.

B. Smith
October 22, 2010 10:33 am

Chris Wright says:
October 22, 2010 at 3:36 am
Once again, an excellent piece by Willis.
History tells us one thing very clearly: when the world gets warmer, mankind prospers. When the world gets colder there are far worse storms, droughts and starvation. Many ancient civilisations died during cold periods. I don’t know of a single one that died when the world was warmer.
_______________________________________________________
CW, your point is well taken.
Civilizations as a rule don’t die out from prolonged cold or hot periods, as those periods of climate change are not sudden, cataclysmic events in nature. Historically, peoples affected by climate change either adapt to their new climatic conditions or they migrate to a better climate. Humans have not only survived, but thrived for centuries in both the coldest and hottest regions on the planet.
If we must “fear” climate change (an absurd notion), it is a much colder world that is far more worrisome to me.

John Whitman
October 22, 2010 10:46 am

Willis,
I love your energy and your broadening of the issues at hand. Thanks.
Upon thinking more and more about the TF position [ which I call the ‘any effect’ of AGW-by-CO2 requires action now position ] I think there is beneath it a more fundamental aspect that we have not been hitting on.
Is this current period of modern USA history generally special compared to all other periods of USA history? Likewise, is the current period of world history generally special compared to all of modern world history? I mean special in a certain way; special from a cultural/social fear phenomenon and/or the need for cultural/social focus on an evil of some form that needs be social slain.
Whether or not our recent history is pretty much as it has been for most of modern history wrt to cultural/social fears and targeting evil is an interesting topic to look for the more fundamental source of TF’s position. But not only TF’s position but also all other related to the climate belief system positions that generate fear and identify evils.
My limited thinking so far says the current history is just another example of an old and recurring Western Civilization need to culturalize/socialize some anxiety or fear and assign some agent of evil that needs to be slain (a dragon if you will) with common social purpose. I think that is what is going on with this climate change belief system (or the AGW-by-CO2 belief system).
I could be wrong and maybe it is a strictly late 20th century and early 21st century phenomena.
Sorry that I may not have articulated this well.
John

October 22, 2010 10:52 am

Yes!!!
It’s not the climate that’s changing, it’s the HISTORICAL DATA.
Back in the early part of this Century, the data were basically sessile. They just sat there, unmoving and unchanging. But then, somewhere around 1990, the data became animate and started to morph.
First there was one little adjustment, then another, and then another. Old data fell unexpectedly, new data rose overnight like bread dough, a data tipping point was reached, and a data death spiral ensued.
We are now approaching DATAGEDDON, the end time in which old, formerly reliable data sneaks out at night, threatens to run off with the neighbor boy, and generally refuses to listen to reason.
Eventually, and it’s inevitable now, all our databases are going to boil away into outer space. The planet will be data-less. Nobody will know what the temperature is, and Civilization As We Know It will collapse.

Gary Hladik
October 22, 2010 10:52 am

thomaswfuller says (October 22, 2010 at 8:19 am): “But one of the characteristics that makes us so adaptable as a species is the ability to plan ahead.”
Robert Burns had something to say about that (and I suspect more than a few recently foreclosed homeowners could add their two cents). “Adaptability” isn’t the result of “planning ahead”, it’s what you need when your best-laid plans don’t work out. As Willis has pointed out, any “plans” we make for upcoming climate change are almost certain to be wrong, so why waste time and money doing anything? IMHO the best “plan” is to make our civilization richer and more scientifically advanced (dare I say “more robust”) so our Grandchildren can more readily “adapt” to whatever is coming.
Steven Mosher says (October 22, 2010 at 9:28 am): “How many stars are there in the universe?”
Next week on Non-Sequitur Theater… (How do I insert a roll-eyes smiley here?)
Willis Eschenbach says: “Until then, I’m not going to believe that warming in the future will cause catastrophes and huge problems, especially warming that we can barely measure.”
Going…going…gone! Another home run from my favorite WUWT slugger.

steveta_uk
October 22, 2010 10:53 am

I cannot understand how you lot can be so complacent about even the lower figure of 0.4 degrees C / century.
This will result in BOILING TROPICAL OCEANS in around 18,000 years! And TOTAL MELTDOWN OF ANTARCTICA in less than 9000 years!
Think of your great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren! (assuming life expectancy of 1000 years, giving a ‘generation’ of approx 250 years).

tryfan
October 22, 2010 11:07 am

Whatever you think of the data, the post is beautifully written. It’s great to have this particular scare put in a sensible perspective.

steveta_uk
October 22, 2010 11:13 am

IT’S WORSE THAT WE THOUGHT!
Here’s the proof – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11575415
22 October 2010 Last updated at 05:53 ET
Warming ‘destabilises aquatic ecosystems’
By Mark Kinver Science and environment reporter, BBC News
Future warming could have “profound implications” for the stability of freshwater ecosystems, a study warns.
Researchers said warmer water affected the distribution and size of plankton – tiny organisms that form the basis of food chains in aquatic systems.

The team warmed plankton-containing vessels by 4C (7F) – the temperature by which some of the world’s rivers and lakes could warm over the next century.

tty
October 22, 2010 11:14 am

I thought it might be interesting to see what a 2 degree Celsius higher annual mean temperature would mean in practical terms, so I took out my old (printed 1970), and therefore presumably unadjusted, climatology textbook which has a big appendix full of climatological data. These are for the then standard period (1931-60), but the differences between towns probably haven’t changed very much.
This is what I found
Duluth would become slightly warmer than Bismarck, ND (+1.9)
Bismarck would become as warm as Great Falls (+2,0)
Great Falls would become nearly as warm as North Platte (+2.2)
North Platte would become slightly warmer than Columbus, Ohio (+1,9)
Columbus would become slightly warmer than St Louis (+1.8)
St Louis would become nearly as warm as Nashville (+2.3)
Nashville would become nearly as warm as Abilene (+2.3)
Abilene would become nearly as warm as New Orleans (+2.1)
New Orleans would become warmer than Jacksonville (+0.8)
Jacksonville would not become as warm as Miami (+3.1)
Miami would become as warm as Mérida, Yucatan (+2.0)
and Mérida would become as warm as Maracaibo, Venezuela (+2.0)
I had originally intended to start at Point Barrow, but there wasn’t enough stations in Alaska and Canada. It would take another 8 steps to get from there to Duluth.
Doesn’t sound too calamitous, does it?

October 22, 2010 11:17 am

I know mine is a minority view. But to change my mind, you’ll have to show me that warming in the past has caused catastrophes and huge problems. Until then, I’m not going to believe that warming in the future will cause catastrophes and huge problems, especially warming that we can barely measure.
I think I am going to use this quote somewhere. I hope Willis does not mind.