Animal, Vegetable, or E. O. Wilson

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Buoyed by the equal parts of derision and support I received for writing in “I am So Tired Of Malthus” about how humans are better fed than at any time in history, I am foolishly but bravely venturing once again into the question of how we feed ourselves.

In a book excerpt in the February 2002 Scientific American entitled “The Bottleneck”, the noted ant entomologist Professor Edward O. Wilson put forward the familiar Malthusian argument that humans are about to run out of food. He said that we are currently getting wedged into a “bottleneck” of population versus resources. He warned of the dangers of “exponential growth” in population, and he averred that we will be squeezed mightily before the population levels off.

His solution? In part his solution was that everyone should become a vegivore.

Wilson: “If everyone agreed to become vegetarian, the present 1.4 billion hectares of arable land would support about 10 billion people.

Figure 1. Vegans are not aliens from the star Vega. They are humans who are strict vegivores, as the food chart above shows. They are known for their barbaric habit of boiling and eating the unborn fetuses of rice and wheat. And don’t get me started on what they do to the poor baby carrots, with their so-called … but I digress …

Is this correct? Would we have a net gain in carrying capacity if all the human carnetarians agreed to become vegivores?

Wilson gets his figure of 10 billion people by taking the total amount of the grain that is being fed to animals, and then figuring how many people that grain would feed. In 1999, about 655 billion tons of grain were fed to animals. That’s a lot of grain. At the world average of about 150 kg of grain per person per year, he’s right, that’s an increase of 4 billion more people who would have enough grain. There were 6 billion on the planet in the year 2000, so that makes a total of about 10 billion people.

So up to there, he is correct. But wait. Although he stops the calculation at that point, there’s a few things he is leaving out of the calculation.

First, that’s just grain, which is not enough to keep a person alive. The extra 4 billion people would need additional nuts, seafood, fruits, vegetables, cotton, root crops, and all the other varieties of food and fiber. So the increase would have to be less than 4 billion people.

Second, people have a number of misunderstandings about where animals fit in on the farm. They believe that animals eat lots and lots of food that could be eaten by humans. Their claim is that if we just ate what the animals eat, we could eliminate the inefficiency, and feed many more people than we are feeding now. In other words, their claim is that having animals on the farms reduces the amount of food coming from the farm.

This is what Wilson is repeating here (although he has gone further than others by claiming that this would increase the carrying capacity of the earth by 2/3 again as much as the current population).

I grew up on a ranch where we had both animals (cattle, pigs, chickens) and field crops (hay, alfalfa). I can assure you that anyone who thinks animals reduce available food on the farm is what in my youth we would call a “city slicker”. Farmers around the planet keep animals for meat and milk. What, are farmers all stupid around the planet and only E. O. Wilson and his fellow vegetactivists are smart? Farmers would not keep animals if it were not a net gain.

While in some industrialized countries the cattle get up to 15% of their lifetime nutrition from grain, the vast majority of animals on farms worldwide live on a variety of things that will not or cannot be eaten by humans. Pigs eat garbage, hens eat bugs and grass and kitchen scraps, goats eat leaves, and cows have four stomachs, so they can turn cellulose, which humans cannot eat, into nutritious milk and meat.

If we got rid of all of our chickens worldwide, would we have more food available for humans? Not unless you like bugs and kitchen scraps better than you like eggs. Chickens are the poor woman’s Rumplestiltskin, spinning insects and weeds and melon rinds into golden eggs and tasty meat … I’ll let E. O. Wilson tell her she’s ruining the planet, not me.

If we call the goats down off the steep hillsides where they are grazing around the world, will we be able to put vegetable farms up there? Not unless you can farm sideways without water.

Cattle in the US eat thousands and thousands of tons of cottonseed meal annually, turning it into meat and milk. Would you prefer to eat the cottonseed meal yourself? Sorry, you can’t, it’s mostly cellulose.

The presence of livestock in a mixed farming economy does not decrease the amount of food that a farm can produce. That is a city slicker’s professorial fantasy. Animals increase the amount of food the farm can produce, otherwise farmers wouldn’t have them. Millions of tons of agricultural and processing leftovers, which would otherwise be wasted, are fed to animals. The animals in turn produce milk and eggs and meat, and then go on to enrich the soil through their urine and manure, just like they were perfected to do on the plains of Africa so long ago … what an amazing planet.

Which is why farmers everywhere around the world keep animals — farmers are not dumb, and they haven’t had the benefit of a college education, so they haven’t forgotten that goats eat leaves, pigs eat garbage, cows eat cellulose, and chickens eat bugs. They know the value of chicken manure and pig manure.

With that introduction, let’s see how we might best estimate the change if everyone became vegetarian. We can do it by looking at the land involved. Here’s the numbers: according to the FAO, out of all the land cultivated by humans, about a quarter of the land is used to grow food for animal consumption. This can be further broken down by the type of animal feed grown:

Figure 2. Area of arable land used for human crops, and for animal crops. Image is Van Gogh, “Ploughed Fields”.

Now if we all became vegivores tomorrow, and we converted all that quarter of the cultivated land to growing food and fiber for human use, what is the possible increase in the number of humans?

Looking at the chart, you would think that humans could increase by about a third of the current number. The land used for animals is about a third of the land used for humans. That would be about two billion more people, not the increase of four billion claimed by Wilson. However, the number cannot even be that large, because we have only looked at one side of the equation. We also have to consider the losses involved. By becoming vegivores, we have freed up the 23% of our cropland used to produce animal food, but we have lost the food coming from the animals. Now how much do we have to give back just to maintain the status quo, to make up for our dietary and other losses? These losses include:

•  We would have to replace the loss of the dietary protein provided by the 200 million tons of meat we eat each year, along with 275 million tons of milk, 7 million tons of butter and 47 million tons of eggs. Vegetarians say, “You don’t need animals, you can get enough protein from a vegetarian diet”, which is certainly true.

However, to do it, you need to eat more grains to get this protein, and in a twist of fate, to replace the total amount of meat protein in our diet with protein from grains would require about 50% more grain than we are currently feeding to animals. This is because animals eat many things other than grain, and we need to replace all that lost other-source protein with grain-source protein as well.

So immediately we have to devote about 18% of the total land to replacing lost protein for the existing world population. Subtracting this 18% from our original 23% of freed up land leaves us with only a 5% possible gain. Remember, this is all just to keep the world even, to maintain the world food status quo. We’re not talking at this point of feeding anyone extra. We’re just maintaining the current nutritional supplies of protein for the current population.

• We would also need to replace the amount of fat provided by the aforementioned animal products. While too much fat is a bad thing, dietary fat is an essential necessity of human nutrition.

The weight of dietary fat provided by animals is about a third of the weight of protein provided by animals. In addition, it takes much less land to produce vegetable replacements for the animal fat than for the animal protein. This is because there are vegetable products (oils) which are pure fat, while vegetable products are generally low in protein.

In the event, in order grow the oils to replace animal fat in our diet, we’d have to plant about 3% more  of our arable land to sunflowers or the equivalent. Deducting that from our 5% gain in available land, we are down to a 2% gain.

• Next, the land worldwide would be less productive because in many areas, animal manure and urine is the only fertilizer. We could easily lose more than a couple of percent that way, especially in developing nations. And once we do so, we are at zero gain, meaning we couldn’t add one single person to the world by voluntarily becoming vegivores. But there are several further losses yet.

• There is also a giant hidden loss of food in the change to vegevorianism, as tens of millions of tons of agricultural waste would have to be disposed of, instead of being converted by animals into millions of tons of human food. In many cases (e.g. oilseed residue meal) these wastes are not directly consumable by humans.

• In addition to losing the food animals make from waste, without animals to eat the waste we add the resulting problem of disposal of the agricultural waste, which is expensive in terms of time, energy, and money.

• We’d have to do without leather, hide, hair, horn, wool, and feathers. Especially in the developing world, these products are often extremely important to the health, warmth, clothing, and well-being of the local people, and there often are no local substitutes. This would be a huge cost of foregoing animals. In places where jackets are made of local sheepskins to keep out the frozen wind, explaining to some poor shepherd why he should go vegivore and trade his sheep for soybeans could be a tough sell …

• Finally, about half the land currently used for growing animal food is being used to grow grasses for animals. In practice, this land will mainly be the poorest and steepest of each country’s croplands (or else it would be planted to a field crop), and thus is not likely to be suitable for growing much more than grasses.

All up?

You’d lose by not having animals in the world’s farmyards. I don’t think you’d even come near breaking even — and neither do the farmers all around the world. They know what the numbers have just shown — we can support more people in a planet, a region, a country, or a farm if animals are part of our agricultural and dietary mix.

[UPDATE] Twelve years after I wrote this, science is finally catching up with what every kid on a cattle ranch knows … see “Going Vegan Isn’t the Most Sustainable Option for Humanity“.


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George E. Smith
September 14, 2010 9:42 am

Oh by the way Kum, I’m quite impressed by your information about the Buick Regal engine performance.
You said they get 220 HP from 2.0 Litres on E85 or 190 on gasoline. I’ll take your numbers; I’m sure you do your research.
Is that a 4 or a 6 cyclinder engine ?
It is interesting because I once owned a 1956 XK-140 Jaguar; with its 3.4 litre twin overhead cam straight six XK engine; just about the last real Jaguar. I had the high performance high compression (8.0) engine, which got 210 HP with twin SU carburettors.
That generally was not considered a particularly powerful engine; and a lot of American hot rodders were quick to replace the XK engine with a big American V-8 .
But that gives some sense of how far the internal combustion engine has progressed. I don’t remember what sort of gas I used to use; I don’t particularly recall using anything but whatever regular was; and in those days of course it had Tetra-Ethyl Lead in it.
210 HP seemed a hell of a lot of power in those days. I can’t for the life of me see why a modern passenger sedan needs 220 HP; or even as much as 150. The 5.0 litre Mustang still sells like hot cakes.

Kum Dollison
September 14, 2010 11:29 am

Willis, you are trashing an entire industry of which you have virtually No knowledge, and doing it from a “position of authority” on a website that is read by millions. Call me “inane, and puerile” if you wish, but that is irresponsible.
There is not a single ethanol plant in the entire Rain Forest. There’s a reason for that. It’s a lousy place to grow sugar cane on any commercially worthwhile scale. Loggers “Log” the Rain Forest to get the “Logs.” The Amazonian hardwoods are incredibly valuable. Those that want to raise soy beans (that’s the jist of the indirect land use argument) will raise them in the Cerrado where there is 150 Million Acres of Fertile Land Lying FALLOW.
BTW, Soy Bean production is DOWN in Brazil. They raised 58 Million Acres of Soy Beans in 2003, and 53 Million acres in 2008. One reason for this is “Soy Bean Exports are UP in the U.S.” Corn, and Soy Bean acreage is about the same, here, but yields are rising every year. Last year was the record corn yield (on 5 Million less acres than 2007, and this years crop will surpass last year’s.
I’m sure Jane Goodall is a wonderful person, but I’ll guarantee you she can’t point to an acre of Rain Forest that’s been cut down to produce ethanol. (Some Indonesian rain forest has been planted in oil palm for making biodiesel; perhaps, that’s what she’s thinking of.)
George, it’s a 4 banger. The key is that you can really “crank up” the variable turbo when running 85% Ethanol. I think their effective compression ration would be in the 14:1 range under full load. Of course, when loafing around the turbo is dialed down, and the VVT allows more exhaust gas to be sucked back into the chamber when running E85 which has the same effect as reducing the volume inside the chamber, and, once again boosting compression. All Hail the High Speed Computer Chip.

Kum Dollison
September 14, 2010 11:39 am

Oh, and about “Iraq:” It is Not “Done.” We still have 50,000 troops there at a cost of, at least, $50 Billion/Yr.
We, also, have the equivalent of Two Carrier Groups in the Persian Gulf, and Indian Sea, and we have Huge support operations in Kuwait, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, and Bahrain. That Oil is Not “Unsubsidized.” We, also, gave the oil companies a $13 Billion Tax Credit for “Deep Water Gulf” operations, and of course, the Oil Spill is going to end up costing the fisheremen, resorts, and other businesses along the Gulf Tens of Billions more.
And, even though I use, mostly, ethanol in my Flexfuel Chevy I still pay for all that through MY taxes.

robr
September 14, 2010 5:48 pm

Oh the vanity of you people. You really think you run things. We trained you, to come out of the trees, to slash and burn. To poke a stick in the ground and put our eggs in them. When you were better trained we taught you to level large areas for us. We taught you to terrace slopes to support us. We taught you to transport water from miles away to give us drink. When you were sufficiently developed we taught you to build ships to transport us.
We taught you to use those ships to go to far off places to brings us food from bat caves. Later we had you build factories to produce urea for us to eat. You have been trained so well, you will go to no expense to keep us free from lice and other bugs. We have you kill or remove noxious plants from around us.
We now control far more land than you, but; we always need more space and we will have you travel to the stars to get us more room to spread. We are the Grasses and we have domesticated you. You do our bidding, even surrounding you homes with us and taking pains to care of us.
We will never let you die for we need you to do our bidding. Our families: the Rice, the Wheat, the Barley and our cousins, the Corn, and the Milo are your benevolent dictators.
(Think about it- smile)

Mark
September 15, 2010 12:01 am

Wow, truth hurts so you censor me.
“Mark says:
September 12, 2010 at 3:39 am
And ethanol bashers: Grain ethanol enables an artificial protein balancer for livestock rations along with the fuel ethanol.
Soybean crop: Protein, Fat + Fiber (in the USA approx. 45 corn equivalent bushels per acre. Displaced acreage being low-yields of 10-20 bushels per acre. No, they aren’t moved the the Amazon Basin.)
Corn crop: Ethanol, Protein, Fat + Fiber (US average 160 bushels per acre, the extra weight being starch.)”
NONE of that grain was ever destined to be “human food” other than the meat you people are yapping about. Hippy permaculture microfarms in everyone’s backyard isn’t a realistic replacement anytime soon for the division of labor economy enabled by grain. The energy used to dry the DDGS is actually energy that would have been used to make roasted beans, roasting being a process required to make beans NON-PIOSONOUS and chemically modify the protein so it’s more than just expensive fertilizer for the rumen.
Also, feel free to censor this again (your website after all) and don’t the math:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/mf/link.html
And why do you ethanol-bashers ALWAYS compare ethanol to “gasoline” when ethanol is a small part of the market which competes with another small part (10%) of the market called premium gasoline? If you drove a car that only required standard “gasoline” would you pay the premium for premium grade? Then why compare standard gasoline with ethanol? Shouldn’t it be compared to high-octane plus and premium, or even better, the tiny market of diesel cars with much higher performance requirements? Most people with BIG AMERICAN TRUCKS don’t own them because they have small wangs, they need them to get the job done.

Kum Dollison
September 15, 2010 8:58 am

NO, Willis; I said,
“There is not a single ethanol plant in the entire Rain Forest. There’s a reason for that. It’s a lousy place to grow sugar cane on any commercially worthwhile scale. “
Of course, some sugar cane is raised in the Rain Forest. As your post showed, it started in the 1600’s. I said there is not a single Ethanol Refinery in the Rain Forest. That would be a silly place to try to raise “Commercial” quantities of Sugar Cane – especially when you have so much Good sugar cane land lying unused in the South.
And, btw, if you’re going to pontificate on the “Rain Forest” you should at least look at “up to date” numbers. The amount of Rain Forest that has been cleared has dropped dramatically, and I Do mean “Dramatically” in the last few years. You’re taking outdated, hysterical opinion pieces from up to 17 years ago, and “Calling it Science.” Sound Familiar?

Jerzy
September 16, 2010 10:51 am

The article and comments here are very interesting. Is there a consensus among AGW skeptics that it is good and right for humans to eat other animals?
The fact is that there are numerous health, environmental and moral reasons that humans should not eat other animals. For instance, human meat-eaters have higher rates of cardiovascular disease, hypertension, obesity, diabetes, and a variety of cancers compared to vegetarians; human animal-eaters have higher mortality rates compared to vegetarians. (E.g., see the studies here: http://www.thevegetariansite.com/diet_stud.htm And: http://www.cancerproject.org/diet_cancer/facts/meat.php) These higher rates of morbidity and mortality are not the mark of an animal that is biologically adapted to eat such a diet. Carnivorous and omnivorous animals do not suffer such adverse effects from eating a meat-based diet. Humans do not have the biological adaptations of either carnivory or omnivory. Humans belong to a Family, Hominidae, none of whom have the characteristic biological adaptations of carnivorous or omnivorous mammals. To suggest that any member of Hominidae is a biological omnivore or carnivore is sheer nonsense.
The inefficiency of producing an animal-based diet for humans compared to a vegetarian diet has been demonstrated in a variety of ways in the scientific literature, and it remains merely logical. There have been no data presented here to suggest that producing an animal-based diet for humans is an equally or more efficient use of land, water or energy compared to producing a vegetarian diet. The direct contamination of the environment due to factory farming is also well documented.
And of course there is no moral justification for causing the needless suffering and death of creatures, or for doing unto other creatures what one would wish would not be done to oneself. At least no one here has pointed out any moral problem with the Golden Rule.
If there is a consensus among AGW skeptics that it is good and right for humans to kill and eat other animals, then that would certainly be a fact worthy of examination. I am entirely confident that no one would be able to argue from the evidence that it is good or right or healthy or environmentally beneficial for humans to raise and slaughter other animals to eat. And I am entirely confident that no one would be able to demonstrate from the evidence that humans are biological omnivores or carnivores.
So if anyone has any sort of argument that it is good or right or healthy or environmentally beneficial for humans to be raising and slaughtering other animals in order to stuff one’s face, I would like to hear that argument.
Reply: This blog is not the place to start a discussion on the moral rights of animals. Let’s stop now ~ ctm

Jerzy
September 16, 2010 10:53 am

“We would also need to replace the amount of fat provided by the aforementioned animal products.”
In the case of protein: if one is getting adequate calories from vegetables, grains or nuts, one is virtually assured of getting adequate protein. For instance, even if one were getting one’s entire caloric requirements from potatoes–a relatively low-protein vegetable–one would still be getting more protein and more of all the essential amino acids than the RDA. Protein deficiency among those getting adequate calories is basically never seen (sometimes among people whose calories come mostly from alcohol). Certainly no one currently eating the modern American diet needs to “replace” any protein found in animal flesh and organs in order to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. E.g., Table 1 in Pimentel and Pimentel (Sustainability of meat-based and plant-based diets and the environment. AJCN, 78 (3), Sept. 2003), here:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/660S?ck=nck
shows that merely subtracting the amount of protein supplied by “Meat” (41.1g) and “Fish” (4.7g) consumed by those eating a meat-based diet in the US still leaves these people with greater protein intake than the RDA for a 150-pound adult male. (Note that the estimate of protein intake for the lacto-ovo-vegetarian is also in excess of the RDA for a 150-pound adult male. Subtracting the amount of protein gotten from “Dairy products” and “Eggs” in the lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet leaves one with approximately the RDA protein intake for a 150-pound adult male.)
You can find further information on protein and nutrition here: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm
Also, a healthy vegetarian diet does not replace or need to replace the amount of fat of a meat-based diet. It’s just quite incredible that someone would suggest such. It obviously isn’t an idea that arises from any scientific evidence.
Despite your repeated claims about livestock being garbage recyclers, you haven’t presented any data to suggest that feeding livestock garbage that they are not biologically adapted to thrive on makes raising animals for food an efficient use of land, water or energy compared to growing crops.
You haven’t shown that there are any conditions in which raising animals for food is as efficient use of land, water or energy for calorie production as growing crops.
You haven’t shown that humans raising animals for food benefits the environment in any way.
You haven’t shown that a meat-based diet benefits humans over a vegetarian diet in any way.
And you certainly haven’t given any moral justification for humans inflicting suffering and death upon any creature merely because that is what the human wants to put into his belly.
Why would one even concern oneself with the efficiency of producing calories from animals compared to crops when one can’t point to any evidence of health benefits from a meat-based diet over a vegetarian diet? Cyanide might be relatively efficient to produce, but that isn’t a reason that we should consume it.
Given that: (a) the scientific evidence contradicts the hypothesis or idea that a meat-based diet is healthier for humans than a vegetarian diet; (b) the scientific evidence contradicts the hypothesis or idea that humans have the biological adaptations characteristic of omnivorous or carnivorous mammals; (c) the scientific evidence contradicts the hypothesis or idea that “efficient” factory farming is environmentally beneficial; and (d) there is no moral justification for inflicting needless suffering and death, then what would be the premises of a meatarian argument?
Reply: This blog is not the place to start a discussion on the moral rights of animals. Let’s stop now ~ ctm

September 24, 2010 7:33 am

Vegivore”?
I thought the term was herbivore – as in black bears are primarily herbivores but polar bears are primarily carnivores.

October 7, 2010 6:01 pm

It is interesting that animals like ruminants (regurgitators like cows and goats), horses, and kangaroos have digestive systems well suited to breaking down vegetation like grass, leaves, and such. Multiple stomachs (ruminants have) or special extra intestines or such that horses have, for example.
(I was looking up some of them because of the big fuss in BC these days about “urban ungulates” (in plain language hooved animals, and specifically deer and moose) coming into conflict with humans and transportation devices like cars and even bicycles. Deer really like suburban areas – irrigated lawns, a variety of plants, what a feast. Suburban areas often have brush to sleep in, especially in SW B.C. where ample shrubbery growth fills ravines. Environmentalists like to claim the deer are being forced out of their natural habitat by developement, but wildlife conservation people disagree – they point to lots of good food without large predators. Interestingly, in Kimberly B.C. there is a correlation between sighting of cougars and complainst about negative interactions with deer over the last few years – cougars find goof food too. 😉

Merissa
October 17, 2010 8:11 pm

Ok, I don’t think I have read one comment from a true vegan on this thread. Well I am Vegan and let me share with you the benefits that I have experienced ( long side note: We don’t feed the whole population on a meat diet either… And well…we’ve seen the destruction of our specism ways by depleating and killing animals in factory farms. Want to know what really happens on old mc’ donalds farm??? go visit one…watch earthings and testing one two three and then get back to me with how you feel about eating meat. Imagine that were you in those videos.)
B12: I take a Vegan supplement sometimes, but I can get this from nutritional yeast
Protein: studies have been done. We only need half the amount of protein that we think we do. You can get this from most common foods. Just do some research.
My tension, anxiety, agressive nature and gone away by half…I have only been vegan for 5months…I was vegetarian before that…to transition.
I sleep deeper, think clearer, and love more than I ever have.
I have lost weight by adopting this diet plus yoga, however any form of exercise is good.
I feel more at peace with what is….isn’t that the point of living?
Learning new recipes and cooking has become so much more exciting. I don’t carry the guilt of eating another being and it’s suffering so that I may survive. We can survive without needless suffering.
Oh a vegan diet from what I have researched helps to get rid of disease.

Sarge
October 20, 2010 12:03 pm

Even if we stipulated in the face of all of the above article’s tight and well reasoned logic that this dramatic change would in fact “let us feed 4 billion more people,”… this would do nothing except create an even larger number of people falling in the percentage who perpetually teeter on the edge of starvation.
Producing more food has never decreased the number of malnourished people on the plant; it has only ever expanded it. The only force known to have ever (temporarily) reduced the number of people near starvation, has been starvation.
Anyone believing otherwise needs to study the facts first. There are far more poor, starving people on this plant today than there were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, or 100 years ago. Because even if food sources are improved, the population expands to the limits of available resources, and NUMBER of people teetering on the brink is a pretty invariant percentage of that total.

Sarge
October 20, 2010 12:04 pm

“were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, or 100 years ago” should have read “were 1000 years ago, or 200 years ago, or 100 years ago.” Apologies for typo.

October 20, 2010 7:04 pm

I think the FAOSTAT are underestimating the amount of grass acreage, note its not counting non arable land in deserts etc, nor is it counting bush meat and game (hunting for meat). It may be out by 20% or more. The desert grazing lands of the world are huge. Many forest and jungle systems are also not counted as arable and yet these are sources of much meat and other food.

October 20, 2010 7:17 pm

We can’t rule out some smart boffin coming up with a genetically engineered plant that ‘meats’ the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of proteins, fats and minerals or the perfect milk substitute in a fruit. The fun bit starts as the vegetarians wind up arguing about whether its a world food break through or a Franken food. lol.
I’d eat it.
We are domesticating one new plant species every two weeks now. Some have the potential of turning desert, swamp or the seas themselves into ‘arable’ land.
There is even a way I’ve proposed but have not yet been able to test yet, to grow vegetables on the open ocean.
http://vacoyecology.com/Bubble_ponds_fluke_boats.html
I need a lab.

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