I never knew chilly, heavier water could do this:
The deep seas are a vast reservoir of carbon dioxide, dissolved under pressure, but the chilly and hence heavy water from the disappearing bergs – helped by the Fleuve and its fellows – sank to the bottom and pushed that ancient reserve of trapped carbon towards the surface. Gas bubbled out and entered the air, pushing onwards the wave of warming. Within a couple of centuries the glaciers began their precipitate retreat, the oceans rose by tens of metres, and we were in the modern world.
From this mythic article in the Telegraph, written by a professor of Genetics.
That water sure has to sink a long way, and as we all know, cold and warm water don’t mix. /sarc
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Of course, some simple grade school science on water density can tell us a lot too. From Steve Spangler’s Science:
The Floating Egg
It’s so simple and amazing. A raw egg will float in very salty water but will sink in plain tap water. Why? Salt water is more dense than regular water. You’ll need to make a very saturated salt solution by dissolving roughly 4 tablespoons of salt in about 2 cups of water. Use pickling or Kosher salt to make a clear salt solution. Table salt may be used, but the solution will be somewhat cloudy due to the additives used to make the salt free-flowing.
Fill a glass half full with the salt water. Slowly add plain water by pouring it down the sides of the glass, being careful not to mix the two liquids. Gently drop the egg into the water and watch as it sinks through the plain water, only to abruptly stop when it hits the salt water. The egg floats on the top layer of the salt water.
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Also, for those that might argue that berg meltwater just above freezing is more dense because it is colder, there is a curious thing that happens at 4C, as outlined in this Iowa State course:
“In regions where precipitation is high, such as the Intertropical Convergence Zone in the central Pacific Ocean shown in the lecture on Atmospheric Structure and Circulation (figure 9), fresh-water rain will ride on top of the saline ocean water. Similarly melting ice in polar regions will be less dense than nearby ocean water of temperature 4 oC because of its lower temperature and lack of salt.”
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And Verity Jones adds this in comments:
“Arctic sea [melt] ice plays a critical and hitherto unknown role in the removal of the greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide (CO2)”
“…in this study, the researchers have found that sea ice itself plays an important role in CO2 capture, effectively pumping this potent greenhouse gas out of the atmosphere. As sea ice forms, it rejects brine, rich in inorganic carbon compounds (derived from atmospheric CO2), into the underlying seawater, a process further stimulated by carbonate precipitation within the sea ice. The summer sea ice melt liberates water which is strongly depleted in CO2. The very low concentration of CO2 in this surface water then drives the extraordinary uptake of CO2 from the atmosphere.”
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h/t to Pablo ex pat who quips: “Geomythology is a new science to rival Climomythology”
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Climomythology! What a wonderfully descriptive word. 😀
I’m just about to patent a method to tap that heavy water and bring it to the surface. It should be a boon to the canadian nuclear industry.
Hmmph. The bergs came from inland snows – the meltwater is freshwater, so isn’t all that dense compared to seawater in the typical bergy graveyard.
Isn’t salt water more dense than fresh water, even very cold fresh water?
Wait a minute; water from melting ‘bergs is fresh and hence lighter than the salty ocean water. That’s one reason salty water in the Gulf Stream, having given up most of its warmth to the Brits and all, can sink to do its part in the thermohaline circulation (or whatever it’s called this week). Innit?
Jeez,
I can imagine myself as a frog laughing at all this! It must be genetic…
BTW, is this Steve Jones related to Phil Jones???
Ecotretas
Hey, he got published didnt he? Why is it easier to get something like this printed than a well researched article that doesn’t support GW?
So global warming caused the flood that Noah built the arc for?
Who knew that Noah had that significant of a carbon footprint?
The dissolved CO2 is constant. And the water and CO2 are not compressed to any appreciable degree. This is the unique feature of H2O, is it not? As for the oceanic absorption of CO2, the vast majority is eventually in the form of carbonates and organic sentiments. Extremely stable and destined to become rock. Or so I have been led to believe.
The story ends with:
“Most of those ingredients are evident today, but millions insist that the warming story is made up.”
By ‘most’ I assume they mean ‘one’. The whole catalyst for their fable is the breaking off and melting of vast icecaps that extended down into the mid-latitudes. Last check of ‘Cryosphere Today’ doesn’t show anything like what they described in their whack-noodle story. Aside from a science that is nothing like reality and conclusions that have no connection to the evidence presented, I thought the article was still poorly written!
Is it a myth or is it hagiography?
The high priests of Climomythology are called Slimeologists.
Climomythology adherents are called Climeballs.
Hockeystick Team members are Graphic Artists.
And all of them want to take liberties with our liberties.
At bathymetric (deep-ocean) depths, seawater composition compresses to the point where vast sheets of cold, dark, saline H20 solidify. Over time, plate tectonics alternately contracts and expands this “bathymetric substrate”, causing large, thick flakes suffused with heavy-laden C02 to rise and dissipate as pressure reduces towards sea-surfaces. This concentrated C02 then sublimates, evaporating from shallow-water continental shelves to cast a pall over continental landmasses, reducing Earth’s albedo to correspondingly increase temperatures worldwide.
“Geomythology” need not restrict itself to deeds of Gods and Men. Since Hansen first invoked the wrath of Boreas and Neptune in 1988, Climate Cultists’ door to Bathymetric Substrates has gaped wide. He that has eyes to see, let him see!
Oh NOOOOO! It’s worse than we thought!!!! Every AGW story is “it’s worse than we thought!” Chicken Little is alive and well and living in the media.
hmmmm David Suzuki, aka Dr, Fruit Fly, as a professor of Genetics.
Maybe a conspiracy happening here 🙂
Just discovered his page: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/slms/people/show.php?personid=10687
Do you believe this guy’s investigation?
and am now involved in a Europe-wide survey of snail populations to see if there has been any change in gene frequency over the past fifty years and more in response to the changes in climate that have taken place
I bet these scientists give any justification just to keep the grant money flowing… And I can’t imagine how fast (LOL LOL) snails evolve!
I’ve also let him, & Telegraph, know what I think of the article.
Ecotretas
From the letter page of the Daily Telegraph 13,7.10:
From the Daily Telegraph 13.7.10:
Sir: I wonder if Paul the Psychic Octopus might now usefully be employed as a consultant to the University of East Anglia, helping to model future climate change?
Mark Welford
Southampton
I reckon Paul would do better that the chap who’s written the bit about ‘heavy water’!
“Geomythology is a new science to rival Climomythology”
Excellent! Some others to consider-
1)- Munchausen by proxy syndrome (MBPS)-
A relatively uncommon condition that involves the exaggeration or fabrication of climate illnesses or symptoms by a primary caretaker (scientist).
2)- Gaian Phrenology-
The process of attributing short-term trends in weather (temperature, tornadoes, hurricanes, sea level, ocean pH, polar ice, etc etc etc) to increases in anthropogenic CO2 emissions. It is now considered a pseudo-science.
3)- Climate horoscope-
“These predictions are intended for entertainment value only.”
As found at the end of your newspaper’s daily horoscope, this disclaimer should be placed in the footer of every page of IPCC reports.
4)- Miserabilism-
The inability of Today to successfully imagine Tomorrow.
(Where are the TV shows like ‘Here Come the 70’s’?).
5)- Paleo-Rorschachism-
A widely-used psychological test in which climate scientists’ pre-conceptions of dangerous anthropogenic climate change are ‘verified’ by extracting signals from climate proxy data using psychological interpretation, complex scientifically derived but erroneous algorithms, or in the case of the IPCC, both. It is now widely considered to be a pseudo-science.
6)- IPECAC-
The proposed new branding for the disgraced IPCC.
Intergovernmental Panel on Earth’s Climate and Anthropogenic Changes
Looks like Post Modern Science is alive and well at UCL.
I wonder if Prof Steve Jones consulted his colleagues in the UCL Department of Chemical Engineering about the suspension of the Gas Laws before this foray into their sphere or whether it was done by consensus modelling ?
Is there an e-mail trail ?
What other terrible things could occur now that these Laws have been suspended ?
No more ice in drinks, no more cold Fizzy Pop, Beer or Champagne.
Oh my it’s definitely worse than I thought.
From their website
“The Ramsay Memorial Chair in Chemical Engineering at UCL was the first of its kind to be established in the United Kingdom. The Department, which was founded in 1923, is one of only three UK departments in this discipline to have consistently received the highest research ratings in recent assessments”
He couldn’t possibly be related to Prof. Phil Jones could he ?
This must be the lemming gene switching on – seems to happen to British pop-academics – around the time that they start to desire a new title.
Ric Werme says:
July 13, 2010 at 8:56 am
Hmmph. The bergs came from inland snows – the meltwater is freshwater, so isn’t all that dense compared to seawater in the typical bergy graveyard.
Sea ice is also mainly fresh water, and not only because it also gets snowed on. It is the H2O that crystallizes, and that is pure water. Brine can remain in pockets but is eventually rejected.
This is arm chair science
Google scholaring
Speculation
and extrapolation.
I take it there is no need to gather data.
reminds me of alGore’s claim that the earth is several million degrees only a couple meters down.
Hmm, I bookmarked this from somewhere today (I thought it was here, although I can’t find who referenced it now – but thanks): http://www.sams.ac.uk/sams-news/Media%20releases/arctic-sea-ice-pumps-50-more-carbon-dioxide-into-the-oceans
“Arctic sea [melt] ice plays a critical and hitherto unknown role in the removal of the greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide (CO2)”
“…in this study, the researchers have found that sea ice itself plays an important role in CO2 capture, effectively pumping this potent greenhouse gas out of the atmosphere. As sea ice forms, it rejects brine, rich in inorganic carbon compounds (derived from atmospheric CO2), into the underlying seawater, a process further stimulated by carbonate precipitation within the sea ice. The summer sea ice melt liberates water which is strongly depleted in CO2. The very low concentration of CO2 in this surface water then drives the extraordinary uptake of CO2 from the atmosphere.”
The word “pure” on the density vs temperature plot is rather important.
(But yes, Steve Jones’ description of the reinvigoration of deep ocean circulation at the end of the glacial is not exactly right)
As pointed out above, water is at its densest at 4 degrees Celsius – which is why lakes don’t freeze from the bottom up. Scientists, on the other hand, are at their densest when they are attempting to rationalize their research in the light of AGW in order to get more funding.