Some people claim, that there's a human to blame …

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

There seem to be a host of people out there who want to discuss whether humanoids are responsible for the post ~1850 rise in the amount of CO2. People seem madly passionate about this question. So I figure I’ll deal with it by employing the method I used in the 1960s to fire off dynamite shots when I was in the road-building game … light the fuse, and run like hell …

First, the data, as far as it is known. What we have to play with are several lines of evidence, some of which are solid, and some not so solid. These break into three groups: data about the atmospheric levels, data about the emissions, and data about the isotopes.

The most solid of the atmospheric data, as we have been discussing, is the Mauna Loa CO2 data. This in turn is well supported by the ice core data. Here’s what they look like for the last thousand years:

Figure 1. Mauna Loa CO2 data (orange circles), and CO2 data from 8 separate ice cores. Fuji ice core data is analyzed by two methods (wet and dry). Siple ice core data is analyzed by two different groups (Friedli et al., and Neftel et al.). You can see why Michael Mann is madly desirous of establishing the temperature hockeystick … otherwise, he has to explain the Medieval Warm Period without recourse to CO2. Photo shows the outside of the WAIS ice core drilling shed.

So here’s the battle plan:

I’m going to lay out and discuss the data and the major issues as I understand them, and tell you what I think. Then y’all can pick it all apart. Let me preface this by saying that I do think that the recent increase in CO2 levels is due to human activities.

Issue 1. The shape of the historical record.

I will start with Figure 1. As you can see, there is excellent agreement between the eight different ice cores, including the different methods and different analysts for two of the cores. There is also excellent agreement between the ice cores and the Mauna Loa data. Perhaps the agreement is coincidence. Perhaps it is conspiracy. Perhaps it is simple error. Me, I think it represents a good estimate of the historical background CO2 record.

So if you are going to believe that this is not a result of human activities, it would help to answer the question of what else might have that effect. It is not necessary to provide an alternative hypothesis if you disbelieve that humans are the cause … but it would help your case. Me, I can’t think of any obvious other explanation for that precipitous recent rise.

Issue 2. Emissions versus Atmospheric Levels and Sequestration

There are a couple of datasets that give us amounts of CO2 emissions from human activities. The first is the CDIAC emissions dataset. This gives the annual emissions (as tonnes of carbon, not CO2) separately for fossil fuel gas, liquids, and solids. It also gives the amounts for cement production and gas flaring.

The second dataset is much less accurate. It is an estimate of the emissions from changes in land use and land cover, or “LU/LC” as it is known … what is a science if it doesn’t have acronyms? The most comprehensive dataset I’ve found for this is the Houghton dataset. Here are the emissions as shown by those two datasets:

Figure 2. Anthropogenic (human-caused) emissions from fossil fuel burning and cement manufacture (blue line), land use/land cover (LU/LC) changes (white line), and the total of the two (red line).

While this is informative, and looks somewhat like the change in atmospheric CO2, we need something to compare the two directly. The magic number to do this is the number of gigatonnes (billions of tonnes, 1 * 10^9) of carbon that it takes to change the atmospheric CO2 concentration by 1 ppmv. This turns out to be 2.13 gigatonnes  of carbon (C) per 1 ppmv.

Using that relationship, we can compare emissions and atmospheric CO2 directly. Figure 3 looks at the cumulative emissions since 1850, along with the atmospheric changes (converted from ppmv to gigatonnes C). When we do so, we see an interesting relationship. Not all of the emitted CO2 ends up in the atmosphere. Some is sequestered (absorbed) by the natural systems of the earth.

Figure 3. Total emissions (fossil, cement, & LU/LC), amount remaining in the atmosphere, and amount sequestered.

Here we see that not all of the carbon that is emitted (in the form of CO2) remains in the atmosphere. Some is absorbed by some combination of the ocean, the biosphere, and the land. How are we to understand this?

To do so, we need to consider a couple of often conflated measurements. One is the residence time of CO2. This is the amount of time that the average CO2 molecule stays in the atmosphere. It can be calculated in a couple of ways, and is likely about 6–8 years.

The other measure, often confused with the first, is the half-life, or alternately the e-folding time of CO2. Suppose we put a pulse of CO2 into an atmospheric system which is at some kind of equilibrium. The pulse will slowly decay, and after a certain time, the system will return to equilibrium. This is called “exponential decay”, since a certain percentage of the excess is removed each year. The strength of the exponential decay is usually measured as the amount of time it takes for the pulse to decay to half its original value (half-life) or to 1/e (0.37) of its original value (e-folding time). The length of this decay (half-life or e-folding time) is much more difficult to calculate than the residence time. The IPCC says it is somewhere between 90 and 200 years. I say it is much less, as does Jacobson.

Now, how can we determine if it is actually the case that we are looking at exponential decay of the added CO2? One way is to compare it to what a calculated exponential decay would look like. Here’s the result, using an e-folding time of 31 years:

Figure 4. Total cumulative emissions (fossil, cement, & LU/LC), cumulative amount remaining in the atmosphere, and cumulative amount sequestered. Calculated sequestered amount (yellow line) and calculated airborne amount (black) are shown as well.

As you can see, the assumption of exponential decay fits the observed data quite well, supporting the idea that the excess atmospheric carbon is indeed from human activities.

Issue 3. 12C and 13C carbon isotopes

Carbon has a couple of natural isotopes, 12C and 13C. 12C is lighter than 13C. Plants preferentially use the lighter isotope (12C). As a result, plant derived materials (including fossil fuels) have a lower amount of 13C with respect to 12C (a lower 13C/12C ratio).

It is claimed (I have not looked very deeply into this) that since about 1850 the amount of 12C in the atmosphere has been increasing. There are several lines of evidence for this: 13C/12C ratios in tree rings, 13C/12C ratios in the ocean, and 13C/12C ratios in sponges. Together, they suggest that the cause of the post 1850 CO2 rise is fossil fuel burning.

However, there are problems with this. For example, here is a Nature article called “Problems in interpreting tree-ring δ 13C records”. The abstract says (emphasis mine):

THE stable carbon isotopic (13C/12C) record of twentieth-century tree rings has been examined1-3 for evidence of the effects of the input of isotopically lighter fossil fuel CO2 (δ 13C~-25‰ relative to the primary PDB standard4), since the onset of major fossil fuel combustion during the mid-nineteenth century, on the 13C/12C ratio of atmospheric CO2(δ 13C~-7‰), which is assimilated by trees by photosynthesis. The decline in δ13C up to 1930 observed in several series of tree-ring measurements has exceeded that anticipated from the input of fossil fuel CO2 to the atmosphere, leading to suggestions of an additional input ‰) during the late nineteenth/early twentieth century. Stuiver has suggested that a lowering of atmospheric δ 13C of 0.7‰, from 1860 to 1930 over and above that due to fossil fuel CO2 can be attributed to a net biospheric CO2 (δ 13C~-25‰) release comparable, in fact, to the total fossil fuel CO2 flux from 1850 to 1970. If information about the role of the biosphere as a source of or a sink for CO2 in the recent past can be derived from tree-ring 13C/12C data it could prove useful in evaluating the response of the whole dynamic carbon cycle to increasing input of fossil fuel CO2 and thus in predicting potential climatic change through the greenhouse effect of resultant atmospheric CO2 concentrations. I report here the trend (Fig. 1a) in whole wood δ 13C from 1883 to 1968 for tree rings of an American elm, grown in a non-forest environment at sea level in Falmouth, Cape Cod, Massachusetts (41°34’N, 70°38’W) on the northeastern coast of the US. Examination of the δ 13C trends in the light of various potential influences demonstrates the difficulty of attributing fluctuations in 13C/12C ratios to a unique cause and suggests that comparison of pre-1850 ratios with temperature records could aid resolution of perturbatory parameters in the twentieth century.

This isotopic line of argument seems like the weakest one to me. The total flux of carbon through the atmosphere is about 211 gigtonnes plus the human contribution. This means that the human contribution to the atmospheric flux ranged from ~2.7% in 1978 to 4% in 2008. During that time, the average of the 11 NOAA measuring stations value for the 13C/12C ratio decreased by -0.7 per mil.

Now, the atmosphere has ~ -7 per mil 13C/12C. Given that, for the amount of CO2 added to the atmosphere to cause a 0.7 mil drop, the added CO2 would need to have had a 13C/12C of around -60 per mil.

But fossil fuels in the current mix have a 13C/12C ration of ~ -28 per mil, only about half of that requried to make such a change. So it is clear that the fossil fuel burning is not the sole cause of the change in the atmospheric 13C/12C ratio. Note that this is the same finding as in the Nature article.

In addition, from an examination of the year-by-year changes it is obvious that there are other large scale effects on the global 13C/12C ratio. From 1984 to 1986, it increased by 0.03 per mil. From ’86 to ’89, it decreased by -0.2. And from ’89 to ’92, it didn’t change at all. Why?

However, at least the sign of the change in atmospheric 13C/12C ratio (decreasing) is in agreement with with theory that at least part of it is from anthropogenic CO2 production from fossil fuel burning.

CONCLUSION

As I said, I think that the preponderance of evidence shows that humans are the main cause of the increase in atmospheric CO2. It is unlikely that the change in CO2 is from the overall temperature increase. During the ice age to interglacial transitions, on average a change of 7°C led to a doubling of CO2. We have seen about a tenth of that change (0.7°C) since 1850, so we’d expect a CO2 change from temperature alone of only about 20 ppmv.

Given all of the issues discussed above, I say humans are responsible for the change in atmospheric CO2 … but obviously, for lots of people, YMMV. Also, please be aware that I don’t think that the change in CO2 will make any meaningful difference to the temperature, for reasons that I explain here.

So having taken a look at the data, we have finally arrived at …

RULES FOR THE DISCUSSION OF ATTRIBUTION OF THE CO2 RISE

1. Numbers trump assertions. If you don’t provide numbers, you won’t get much traction.

2. Ad hominems are meaningless. Saying that some scientist is funded by big oil, or is a member of Greenpeace, or is a geologist rather than an atmospheric physicist, is meaningless. What is important is whether what they say is true or not. Focus on the claims and their veracity, not on the sources of the claims. Sources mean nothing.

3. Appeals to authority are equally meaningless. Who cares what the 12-member Board of the National Academy of Sciences says? Science isn’t run by a vote … thank goodness.

4. Make your cites specific. “The IPCC says …” is useless. “Chapter 7 of the IPCC AR4 says …” is useless. Cite us chapter and verse, specify page and paragraph. I don’t want to have to dig through an entire paper or an IPCC chapter to guess at which one line you are talking about.

5. QUOTE WHAT YOU DISAGREE WITH!!! I can’t stress this enough. Far too often, people attack something that another person hasn’t said. Quote their words, the exact words you think are mistaken, so we can all see if you have understood what they are saying.

6. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Repeat after me. No personal attacks. No “only a fool would believe …”. No “Are you crazy?”. No speculation about a person’s motives. No “deniers”, no “warmists”, no “econazis”, none of the above. Play nice.

OK, countdown to mayhem in 3, 2, 1 … I’m outta here.

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gilbert
June 7, 2010 3:51 am

And again you tell me all this after I’ve had to figure it out for myself.
I’m curious what you think of the following analysis of CO2 attribution by Ferdinand Engelbeen:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/co2_measurements.html
I agree that it doesn’t make any substantial difference although I’m having a bit of difficulty resolving the some of the differences between your thermostat theory and Ferenc Miskolczi.

Oslo
June 7, 2010 3:53 am

Well, as you say – your first graph resembles the Mann hockey stick, and perhaps for good reason, as it seems to utilize the good old “trick” – splicing the instrumental record onto the proxy data.
Here is another graph, clearly showing the instrumental data (red) disjointed from the proxies:
http://www.geo.cornell.edu/eas/energy/_Media/ice_core_co2.png
So the question is, as with the hockey stick: do the figures from the two methods even belong on the same graph?

Richard S Courtney
June 7, 2010 3:58 am

I write to support a point made by tonyb at June 7, 2010 at 1:42 am .
Either the ice core data are right or they are wrong.
If the ice core data are right then climate variability is not discernibly affected by atmospheric CO2 concentration: i.e. the ice core data show no variation in atmospheric CO2 coincentration during the Roman Warm Period (RWP), the Dark Age Cool Period (DACP), the Medieval Warm Perod (MWP) and the Little Ice Age (LIA). These climate variations must have been caused by something other than atmospheric CO2 concentration, and there is no reason to suppose that recent variations in climate are not a result of the “something other”.
Altenatively, the ice core data are wrong so they should be ignored.
In either case, more research is needed before any definitive statements can be made concerning the causes of atmospheric CO2 concentration and climate variability on the basis of ice core data.
Richard

anna v
June 7, 2010 3:59 am

I will like to comment on fig 1.
1) ice core records, evidently, come from regions largely depleted of fauna. The CO2 there is what the winds carry. It is not surprising that they show such a stable value, ignoring little ice ages and medieval warming periods ( Henry’s law). This argues that the values measured are sort of homogenized at least over centuries.
The rise in recent data is notable, but in a diffusion model, not enough time and pressure of over covering ice has passed for the recent years where so smartly the trick is played with the Mauna Loa data.
2) Mauna Loa data is also depleted by construction, so making the hockey stick shape is not hard in the overlap region. The real question is, if one had better resolution in ice core data, , for example for the medieval warm period, would it show values of the order of 350 ppm even in this depleted region ? The whole anthropogenic CO2 argument rests on this assumption, that the rise in recent years is unprecedented. Beck’s data, and I now learn from Courtney’s post above, stomata data speak differently.
I have no doubt that the temperatures have been increasing since the little ice age, and therefore expect, by Henry’s law the CO2 to be increasing . It is possible that part of the increase is due to anthropogenic causes, but I am not convinced by the data presented.
Tons do not mean much , as global numbers. example: Pollution remains close to the source, and I do not see why CO2 would be different. Most pollution sources are close to cities. It rains more over cities, (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/UrbanRain/urbanrain3.php ) because of the pollution, and rain washes down CO2 too, mixing it with the water that ends up in the seas. How can this process be quantified? i.e. how much of anthropogenic CO2 ends up in the “pure” background of the antarctic and arctic and Mauna Loa?
The whole field is rife with speculations and assumptions served as certainties.

Ken Hall
June 7, 2010 4:01 am

“Yes, entirely reasonable. It seems most likely that human activities, not confined to fossil fuel burning, are indeed raising the CO2 ppm in the atmosphere.
It is also clear that this will contribute a modest warming effect, that is just physics.
The debate is what, if anything, happens next. Does the effect get amplified by positive feedback, or reduced by negative feedbacks, or overwhelmed by other factors.”
Agreed, and this is where the models featured in IPCC reports and where “scientific consensus” appears to break down.
“Man produces CO2 and CO2 has a warming effect on the atmosphere.” That is about as far as the “scientific consensus” goes. How much warming, what feedbacks they trip, whether this is likely to be catastrophic, or whether it will be moderate and hidden by natural variability, or whether this anthropogenic CO2 will trigger negative feedbacks greater than positive ones… There are many scientists who disagree on all of these things.
Anyone who claims scientific consensus is selling something without a warranty.

Daniel H
June 7, 2010 4:02 am

As Richard Telford mentioned above, another line of evidence implicating fossil fuels as the source of atmospheric CO2 increase is the change in the atmospheric O2:N2 ratio. This is discussed in AR4 WG1, The Physical Science Basis, Chapter 2, Section 2.3.1 and illustrated here. My only problem with this record is that it’s impossible to verify since the raw data are “protected” behind a firewall at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography web site and therefore cannot be accessed by the general public. It would be great if someone at WUWT like Willis Eschenbach or Anthony Watts could convince Keeling to release his data since it was funded by mine and your tax dollars the NSF and NOAA and therefore ought to be in the public domain.
For more information, click the link “Lab Data”, located here:
https://bluemoon.ucsd.edu/data.html
Note: the Scripps/UCSD web site inexplicably uses an untrusted security certificate for their SSL connection which might trigger a browser security warning. However, this can be safely ignored.

Espen
June 7, 2010 4:06 am

Juraj V. says:
Why there is no sign of MWP/LIA in the ice core CO2 data?
I have the same question. Though there seems to be a faint sign: Have a look at the graph on the top of the article, at least the LIA seems to be visible. But the signal is weaker than what would be expected, which strengthens the hypothesis that ice core data are not suitable for measuring CO2 at this high resolution some hundred years ago, but rather represents a (multi-)centennial moving average. In this regard, Richard S Courtney’s links to stomata estimates above are highly interesting.

BBk
June 7, 2010 4:11 am

“So, what should we expect? In the early decades of a pulse of CO2 being added to the atmosphere, with a “fresh” ocean awaiting, the near exponential decay of CO2 is possible. But as the surface layers of the ocean become more saturated with CO2, its ability to absorb more CO2 declines, and the removal of CO2 from the atmosphere departs from the exponential, and becomes much slower. ”
This assertion ignores diffusion of CO2 from the surface to the lower levels of the ocean. If diffusion (removal of CO2 from the surface to the lower volume) happens at a faster or equal rate to the absorbtion of CO2 from the atmosphere then the ocean can be considered “fresh” until the entire volume “fills.” While, in theory, eventually the ocean would saturate, the rate would be very slow.
Have there been any studies about the rate of diffusion of CO2 through the ocean layers?
My gut feeling is that since we’re dealing with Volume vs Area, that diffusion would, indeed, be a much larger value.

Stephen Wilde
June 7, 2010 4:13 am

Would it not be the case that ANY system of measurement that failed to reflect the climate events of the MWP and LIA would also fail to reflect the modern warming and so would ALWAYS produce a ‘hockey stick’ shape when grafted onto modern more sensitive systems of measurement ?

Ken Hall
June 7, 2010 4:15 am

“Of course, those nasty warmists have been trying to explain for years just how solid the evidence is that it is indeed human activity that’s causing the CO2 rise, it’s laughable that many “skeptics” are only capable of accepting the reasoning when it’s explained to them by one of the good people at WUWT.”
Nonsense. I do not know of anyone within the climate realist community that doubts (or ever doubted) that atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased, nor that the increase is largely caused by man.
What realists believe is what is proven scientifically using the full scientific method, and that is that there is NO PROOF that current warming, (such as it is, and that depends very much an when you start and end the measurements and whether you have faith in the veracity and accuracy of those measurements and the analysis of those measurements) is entirely or mostly caused by those emissions or that the outcome of those emissions will be catastrophic.
The real actual earth upon which we all live and rely on for our life is NOT a greenhouse, nor is it a computer model. It behaves a little bit like both, but crucially, it behaves a lot like neither and we simply do not know how the climate works in enough detail to be able to predict with any level of certainty what will happen next.
The UN IPCC had become far too reliant on former scientists who abandoned parts of the scientific method to push a theory when the scientific method failed to provide proof.
To wit: altering or amending or omitting data to make it fit the theory, closing down peer review to an “incestuous” in-group, bullying publishers and using threats against “sceptical” scientists are all methods that not only fail the scientific method, but indeed contradict it and render the scientists involved in such dishonest practices as advocates, rather than scientists.

Stephan
June 7, 2010 4:20 am

arctic ice is either melting or dissipating like mad
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
or its a mistake once again lol

Joe Lalonde
June 7, 2010 4:23 am

Willis,
I enjoy these mind manipulation response games so, here goes.
One thing I am find is that trace elements attached to elements such as O2 or CO2 or even H20 16 0r H2O 18 have a bearing on the mass weight of these and also can change our preception of how they interact in a magnetic field setting.
Think hard my young scholar on what EXACTLY is gravity? What one element is most involved even on a small level.
No question that we are the major contibutors of CO2 but trying to tie this with temperatures is fool hardy. We have not included rotation of planet, elasticity of the atmosphere it pulls or the pressure buildup we have caused.
Science has made physical evidence into theories and theories are the all mighty as long as math (not science!) is involved.

Curiousgeorge
June 7, 2010 4:35 am

A philosophical question, Willis. Assume for the moment that we lacked the capability to measure CO2 ( or temperature other than what we feel on our skin ). Would we then perceive our current environment as beneficial or detrimental ?

D.A. Neill
June 7, 2010 4:35 am

The anthropogenic emissions line in your figure 2 tracks closely with the world fuel consumptions statistics cited by Klashtorin and Lyubushin (in L.B. Klyashtorin and A.A. Lyubushin, “On the coherence between the dynamics of the world fuel consumption and global temperature anomaly”, Energy & Environment, Vol. 14, No. 6 (2003), Figure 1). K&L take the argument to the next logical step, however, and add in the global temperature anomaly line, and then check the correlation between delta T and WFC. The coefficient of correlation runs at +0.92 from 1861-1875; -0.71 from 1875-1910; +0.28 from 1910-1940; -.088 from 1940-1975; +0.94 from 1975-2000. In other words, there is no linear correlation between global temperature anomalies and world fuel consumption. The lack of a linear correlation falsifies the AGW thesis, the heart of which is the IPCC’s contentions (a) that anthropogenic additions to atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations “have caused the largest forcing of the industrial [post-1950] period” (4th AR WG1, Chapter 2, 136), and (b) that the amplitude of the large-scale pattern of response will scale linearly with the forcing (4th AR WG1, Chapter 2, 670). If they pick their analytical end-points right, they can just barely make it work. Of course, if you pick your end-points right, you can make ANY argument work.
If your figure 1 is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt your numbers), then the flat line from 1000 to 1850 or so, in the context of the MWP, the LIA, and the modern warming, demonstrates that there is no correlation whatsoever between atmospheric CO2 concentrations and average global temperatures. Yet ice core data over the last four glaciations demonstrates that there is a relationship between delta T and delta CO2, with the latter lagging the former (J.R. Petit, et al., “Climate and atmospheric history of the past 420,000 years from the Vostok ice core, Antarctica”, Nature 399 (1999), 429-436.). If there is, in fact, an 800-1200 year lag between average global temperature increase and atmospheric CO2 increase (as the Vostok cores seem to demonstrate, with CO2 concentrations varying by as much as 100 ppm in response to a multi-degree swing in average temperature), then seeing as how we’re about 1200 years past the onset of the significant temperature change of the MWP, might not the current rise in CO2 concentrations that began 200 years ago be a lagging artefact of the MWP, with human CO2 emissions a contributing factor perhaps, but a largely inconsequential one?
Just wondering; after all, INACS.*
It’s hard to argue with your numbers, and I certainly have none better than yours to offer. But I can’t help but wonder if we’re missing something. Humans, our technological hubris notwithstanding, really are bit players on a planetary scale.
* Obligatory self-abnegation: “I’m Not A Climate Scientist”
P.S. I work in a scientific organization, and I’ve cut’n’pasted your rules for discussion to all my colleagues. Every scientist should have them tattooed over his heart.

899
June 7, 2010 4:36 am

Willis,
CONCLUSION
As I said, I think that the preponderance of evidence shows that humans are the main cause of the increase in atmospheric CO2.

But that doesn’t square with your prior comment:
In addition, from an examination of the year-by-year changes it is obvious that there are other large scale effects on the global 13C/12C ratio. From 1984 to 1986, it increased by 0.03 per mil. From ’86 to ’89, it decreased by -0.2. And from ’89 to ’92, it didn’t change at all. Why?
If humans are to be seen as the major contributors to atmospheric CO2, then how is it that the second statement quoted above shows quite the opposite? Did not the use of mineral crude actually increase in those time spans?
Aside from that, I’m not going to worry much over the matter, inasmuch as CO2 has been effectively debunked as a so-called ‘greenhouse’ gas, what with NASA alluding to such, albeit not directly.
I might start worrying when I may no longer lay on the sand at the beach without having to wear an oxygen mask due to the low lying CO2 …

anna v
June 7, 2010 4:37 am

of course that should be flora, not fauna in my
anna v says:
June 7, 2010 at 3:59 am
Although humans as fauna contribute something like half a ton of CO2 a year, and as we are 6 billion that is 3 billion tons a year from our respiration cycle. to be compared with 8 or so gigatones from fossil etc, a factor of 1000 less. ( somebody asked)

June 7, 2010 4:45 am

All I know is that I have read comments from people who are offended by it. I use “AGW supporter”
The problem with “AGW supporter” is that it first presupposes that the case for AGW is “settled” (which it may or may not be, to a greater or lesser extent, distinct from CAGW which is anything but), and then subsequently implies that the person thinks it’s good – i.e. “supports” it. It all breaks down, literally, in too many ways to fairly represent the views of the person or the thing they believe in.
I propose “AGW believer”.

wayne Job
June 7, 2010 4:49 am

If the ice core data shows a lag between warming and CO2 rise, surely the last hundred years are the start of the normal CO2 rise from the MVP. That may explain the change in isotope ratios.

Douglas Cohen
June 7, 2010 4:49 am

Neither you nor most of the people commenting here seem to be thinking about the approximately 800 year delay between an increase in temperature and the corresponding increase in CO2 that is said to be revealed by the ice core measurements. Is that delay still supported by the latest data? If it is, then the recent rise in CO2 could be mostly due to the Medieval Warm period — 800 years ago — indeed it could be taken as a proxy measurement for exactly how much warmer the world climate was back then (using the rule 7 deg C leads to a doubling of atmospheric CO2).

Grumbler
June 7, 2010 4:50 am

“Curiousgeorge says:
June 7, 2010 at 4:35 am
A philosophical question, Willis. Assume for the moment that we lacked the capability to measure CO2 ( or temperature other than what we feel on our skin ). Would we then perceive our current environment as beneficial or detrimental ?”
It’s not philosophical but practical. It’s fortuitous how all this happened just as we developed satellites and supercomputers. What great luck that our worst climate disaster coincided with huge advances in measuring and modelling!!
cheers David

FrankS
June 7, 2010 4:51 am

Thanks Willis for the mention of “half life”, that just makes it so easy to understand why the IPCC estimates must always be larger than churn rates.
Missing from your analysis is any reference, other than concluding that humans are the main cause of the increase in atmospheric CO2
For instance the ice cores show a 800 year lag between temp and CO2. So should there be an estimate for this type of change factored in. If for instance non human CO2 was naturally rising during this period then the amount sequestered (orange) and remaining CO2 (red) would would include a portion of increased non human CO2 as well. The effect here would be to lengthen the e-folding time of CO2 beyond 31 years.

Det
June 7, 2010 4:53 am

I also would like to point out that the deforestation really took of well with inventing the steam engine in the UK and the need to burn wood for that.
But also consider deforestation to gain farm land and later to expand settlements.
Even now, it still happens in the Amazon region and in Africa.
Aren’t we loosing the storage capacity of CO2 from the forests worldwide?
Considering the fastest method today is still to burn everything down!
A working forest holds moisture and water, creates O2, removes dust and other pollutents out of the air and creates shade (local cooling).
Big cities with lots of concrete and asphalt becoming hot spots, using up water and are usually funnel wind and get dust airborne!
Why is this not considered as causing in warming or CO2 concentration rise models?

Grumbler
June 7, 2010 4:54 am

Hold on – CO2 straight line for 800 years and climate fluctuates dramatically over that period? And CO2 drives climate? What am I missing?
cheers David

Malaga View
June 7, 2010 4:58 am

Mmmmmmm… thanks for the excellent food for thought…
I have trawled through my mental archives after reading the article and comments…
Now if I remember rightly there is a TRICK somewhere… now what is it?
A TRICK that helps me understand Hockey Stick graphs….
A TRICK that helps me create Hockey Stick graphs…
Ahhhhhhh… I remember now 🙂

Take historic proxy data (of imprecise worth – like tree ring or ice core data) and then splice on some modern day observations. This recipe seems to work every time. Then flavour the latest data with a bit of Tabasco to ensure the end result is red and hot!!!!!

Gail Combs
June 7, 2010 4:59 am

Willis,
Fred H. Haynie the Retired EPA Research Scientist, mentioned to you a pdf covering this subject that he spent the last four years researching. He addresses the problems with the Ice Core CO2 data (it is too low) the carbon isotope issue and others.
My question is have you read the paper and can you refute his points? Especially the point on the ice core data being too low and the differential absorption rate of the carbon isotopes.
The PDF: http://www.kidswincom.net/climate.pdf