Every Silver Lining Has A Cloud

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I noted on the news that there is a new plan afoot to cool down the planet. This one supposedly has been given big money by none other than Bill Gates.

The plan involves a fleet of ships that supposedly look like this:

Figure 1. Artist’s conception of cloud-making ships. Of course, the first storm would flip this over immediately, but heck, it’s only a fantasy, so who cares? SOURCE

The web site claims that:

Bill Gates Announces Funding for Seawater-Spraying Cloud Machines

The machines, developed by a San Francisco-based research group called Silver Lining, turn seawater into tiny particles that can be shot up over 3,000 feet in the air. The particles increase the density of clouds by increasing the amount of nuclei contained within. Silver Lining’s floating machines can suck up ten tons of water per second.

What could possibly go wrong with such a brilliant plan?

First, as usual the hype in this seems to have vastly outpaced the reality. According to CBS News Tech Talk:

The machines, developed by a San Francisco-based research group called Silver Lining, turn seawater into tiny particles that can be shot up over 3,000 feet in the air. The particles increase the density of clouds by increasing the amount of nuclei contained within. Silver Lining’s floating machines can suck up ten tons of water per second. If all goes well, Silver Lining plans to test the process with 10 ships spread throughout 3800 square miles of ocean. Geoengineering, an umbrella phrase to describe techniques that would allow humans to prevent global warming by manipulating the Earth’s climate, has yet to result in any major projects.

However, this is just a quote from the same web site that showed the ship above. CBS Tech Talk goes on to say:

A PR representative from Edelman later sent me this note from Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution for Science: “Bill Gates made a grant to the University of Calgary to support research in possible unique solutions and responses to climate change. Administrating this research funding, David Keith of the University of Calgary and I made a grant to Armand Neukermanns for lab tests to investigate the technical feasibility of producing the fine seawater sprays required by the Latham cloud whitening proposal, one of many proposals for mitigating some of the adverse effects of climate change. This grant to Neukermanns is for lab tests only, not Silver Lining’s field trials.”

So Bill Gates isn’t funding the ships, and didn’t even decide to fund this particular fantasy, he just gave money to support research into “possible unique solutions”. Well, I’d say this one qualifies …

Next, after much searching I finally found the Silver Lining Project web site. It says on the home page:

The Silver Lining Project is a not-for-profit international scientific research collaboration to study the effects of particles (aerosols) on clouds, and the influence of these cloud effects on climate systems.

Well, that sure sounds impressive. Unfortunately, the web site is only four pages, and contains almost no information at all.

Intrigued, I emailed them at the address given on their web site, which is info(a)silverliningproj.org. I quickly got this reply:

Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

info@silverliningproj.org

The recipient’s e-mail address was not found in the recipient’s e-mail system. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please check the e-mail address and try resending this message, or provide the following diagnostic text to your system administrator.

Hmmmm … not a good sign, four page web site, email address is dead … but onwards, ever onwards. Let’s look at a few numbers here.

First, over the tropical oceans, the rainfall is typically on the order of a couple of metres per year. Per the info above, they are going to test the plan with one ship for every 380 square miles. A square mile is about 2.6 square km, or 2.6 million square metres. Three hundred eighty square miles is about a thousand square km. Two metres of rainfall in that area is about two billion tonnes of water …

They say their ships will suck up “ten tonnes of water per second”. That’s about a third of a billion tonnes per year. So if they run full-time, they will increase the amount of water in the air by about 15% … which of course means 15% more rain. I don’t know how folks in rainy zones will feel about a 15% increase in their rainfall, but I foresee legalarity in the future …

Next, how much fuel will this use? The basic equation for pumps is:

Water flow (in liters per second) = 5.43 x pump power (kilowatts) / pressure (bars)

So to pump 10,000 litres per second (neglecting efficiency losses) with a pressure of 3 bars (100 psi) will require about 5,500 kilowatts. This means about 50 million kilowatt-hours per year. Figuring around 0.3 litres of fuel per kilowatt-hour (again without inefficiencies), this means that each ship will burn about fifteen million litres of fuel per year, so call it maybe twenty five million litres per year including all of the inefficiencies plus some fuel to actually move the ship around the ocean. All of these numbers are very generous, it will likely take more fuel than that. But we’ll use them.

Next, the money to do this … ho, ho, ho …

You can buy a used fire fighting ship for about fifteen million dollars,  but it will only pump about 0.8 tonnes/second. So a new ship to pump ten tonnes per second might cost on the order of say twenty million US dollars.

You’d need a crew of about twelve guys to run the ship 24/7. That’s three eight-hour shifts of four men per shift. On average they will likely cost about US$80,000 per year including food and benefits and miscellaneous, so that’s about a million per year.

Then we have fuel costs of say US$ 0.75 per litre, so there’s about ten million bucks per year there.

Another web site says:

A study commissioned by the Copenhagen Consensus Centre, a European think-tank, has estimated that a wind-powered fleet of 1,900 ships to cruise the world’s oceans, spraying sea water from towers to create and brighten clouds, could be built for $9 billion. The idea would be to operate most of the ships far offshore in the Pacific so they would not interfere with weather on land.

My numbers say $38 billion for the ships … and “wind-powered”? As a long time sailor, I can only say “get real” …

However, that’s just for the ships. Remember that we are talking about $11 million per ship for annual pumping fuel costs plus labour … which is an annual cost of another $20 billion dollars …

Finally, they say that they are going to test this using one ship per 380 square miles … and that they can blanket the world with 1,900 ships. That makes a total of around three quarters of a million square miles covered by the 1,900 ships.

The surface of the world ocean, however, is about 140 million square miles, so they will be covering about half a percent of the world ocean with the 1,900 ships. Half a percent. If that were all in the Pacific Ocean per the citation above, here’s how much it would cover:

Figure 2. Area covered by 1,900 cloud making ships.

Yeah, brightening that would make a huge difference, especially considering half of the time it wouldn’t even see the sun …

See, my problem is that I’m a practical guy, and I’ve spent a good chunk of my life working with machinery around the ocean. Which is why I don’t have a lot of time for “think-tanks” and “research groups”. Before I start a project, I do a back-of-the-envelope calculation to see if it makes sense.

My calculations show that this will cost forty billion dollars to start, and twenty billion per year to run, not counting things like ship maintenance and redundancy and emergencies and machinery replacement and insurance and a fleet of tankers to refuel the pump ships at sea and, and, and …

And for all of that, we may make a slight difference on half a percent of the ocean surface. Even if I’ve overestimated the costs by 100% (always possible, although things usually cost more than estimated rather than less), that’s a huge amount of money for a change too small to measure on a global scale.

Now Bill Gates is a smart guy. But on this one, I think he may have let his heart rule his head. One of the web sites quoted above closes by saying:

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation did not respond to requests for comment on Tuesday, nor did U.S. entrepreneur Kelly Wanser, who is leading the Silver Lining Project.

Smart move … what we have here is a non-viable non-solution to a non-problem. I wouldn’t want to comment either, especially since this non-solution will burn about 27 billion litres (about 7 billion US gallons) of fuel per year to supposedly “solve” the problem supposedly caused by CO2 from burning fuel …

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fxk
May 12, 2010 8:35 am

Wow.
By the way, isn’t water vapor considered a greenhouse gas?
Don’t things like hurricanes/typhoons feed on water vapor? While we may (and I stress may) be causing warming, do we really know enough to try to cool the planet?

David Schnare
May 12, 2010 8:37 am

This is the first time I’ve been disappointed by this blog.
Humor is fine. Failing to do your homework to know whether the idea deserves the humor is not.

George E. Smith
May 12, 2010 8:39 am

“”” Milwaukee Bob says:
May 12, 2010 at 7:35 am
Solar and wind power? Where are the solar panels and wind turbines? and solar panels need the sun – – – this ship creates clouds – – the bane of solar panels – – and no onboard crew members? complicated electronics, hugh turbines, a maze of pipes – valves -filters, totally unpredictable ocean water conditions and volatile/dynamic weather…. and they think they can control/maintain these remotely? “””
Come now Bob; you should be more up to speed than that; ain’t you never heard of negative feedback from clouds. There’s no electronics at all on this thing; it is completely self regulated by hydraulics.
Damn thing just keeps on making clouds till it shuts down enough solar power to turn itself off. Totally brilliant if you ask me.
Hey I keep trying to tell Y’alls; IT’S THE WATER !

Enneagram
May 12, 2010 8:40 am

This IS not a practical idea, IT WAS a practical idea: Just wonder how many millions less of taxes were saved by BG funding this idea. THAT one was the real idea.

David L. Hagen
May 12, 2010 8:41 am

Spraying water will cool the air. Need to add differences in air density and entrained air. e.g. see Evaporative cooler
Spray cooling is being evaluated to cool naval vessel exhausts. See:
Three-Dimensional Simulation on Mist Cooling in Power Machine Exhaust System in Motive Military Target

YUAN Jiang-tao1, YANG Li1, SUN Rong2, ZHANG Jian1, CHEN Xuan1(1.College of Naval Architecture and Power, Naval University of Engineering, Wuhan 430033, China;2.Naval Academy of Armament, Beijing 100073, China)
For the gas-liquid mixed flow during the water spraying into the exhaust system, the mathematical model was proposed based on the gas-particle two-phase flow theory.The k-ε model was used to describe the gas phase and the stochastic trajectory model was used to express the particle phase.The coupling interaction between the gas phase and the particle phase was considered in the three-dimensional simulation analysis.The water droplets’ moving trajectories in the flue and the information of the velocity field and the temperature field during the water spraying into the exhaust system were obtained.The predicted results are in good agreement with the results in the references.

(For those reading Chinese)
Maybe chimneys will help. See:
High Altitude Atmospheric Injection System and Method

May 12, 2010 8:43 am

David Schnare,
Anthony is always willing to publish well written articles. Why don’t you write an article showing why this vapor launch idea is credible?
I would honestly like to know if it could actually be implemented within reasonable physical and financial parameters.

Tommy
May 12, 2010 8:43 am

Who would secure this fleet from pirates? Factor in some navy to the costs.

snork
May 12, 2010 8:47 am

This isn’t the first time the Gates foundation got taken for a ride. Remember the greenhouses in Gaza? the ones that were promptly ransacked and raided by the locals?
Everyone keeps forgetting that Bill isn’t the only one running that outfit.

George E. Smith
May 12, 2010 8:48 am

“”” Theo says:
May 12, 2010 at 6:11 am
Isn’t water vapour a more effective “greenhouse gas” than CO2??? “””
Well no, Theo; haven’t you heard that water is only a feedback factor for amplifying the anthropogenic warming effect of man made CO2 emissions.
So this Rube Goldberg gizmo is going to cause man made global warming like you wouldn’t believe with all that feedback enhancement of anthropogenic fossil fuelled CO2.

David Schnare
May 12, 2010 8:50 am

Smokey says:
May 12, 2010 at 8:43 am
David Schnare,
Anthony is always willing to publish well written articles. Why don’t you write an article showing why this vapor launch idea is credible?
I would honestly like to know if it could actually be implemented within reasonable physical and financial parameters.
Smokey,
Steve Salter, Anna V and I all provided you links to the literature. If you can keep up with this blog, you can understand that literature and form your own conclusions. All I ask is that before the buffoonery and bluster one might at least do some homework on the issue before posting an article like the one Willis posted above.

PeterB in Indianapolis
May 12, 2010 8:51 am

Grant B:
“Don’t be so negative. Time is running out. We have to do something. Anything.”
Your very own sentence contradicts itself! (Just to explain so you understand, the phrases “Time is running out” and “We have to do something. Anything.” are incredibly negative.
Now, if you want to try POSITIVE thinking instead, try this:
“Climate is a vast system with literally thousands of variables. Throughout history, whether man has been on the planet or not, the climate has CHANGED CONSTANTLY. Sometimes it has been EXCEPTIONALLY hot, other times it has been so cold that it is a wonder any life survived! I am a mere human. To the earth we are but ants. Our ability to cause any measureable change in something as huge and complex as “the climate” is completely negligible. No matter what we as humans do, the climate will go on. In addition, the climate will go right on CHANGING, and sometimes terribly dramatically, just as it has throughout the life of this planet.”
Stand in front of a mirror and recite that aloud at least once per hour for the next 3 months. I guarantee you that you will feel a lot better.

Fred from Canuckistan
May 12, 2010 8:51 am

So Bill Gates thinks that ship design is seaworthy.
Judgment like that explains Vista.
It is all clear now.

May 12, 2010 8:54 am

I’m tired of winter. The greenhouse gas geoengineering scheme is not working.

sdcougar
May 12, 2010 8:56 am

You guys have me in stitches. A skit like this could put Saturday Night Live outa business.
My favorite so far:
Andy Scrase says:
May 12, 2010 at 3:21 am
Just what Planet Earth needs – Service Pack 1 from Bill Gates
[With Wilie Coyote as runner up]

George E. Smith
May 12, 2010 8:58 am

“”” Luboš Motl says:
May 12, 2010 at 8:12 am
Well, if I could control the climate, I would also warm it up by 5 degrees Celsius or so, and reduce the clouds. “””
Actually; I believe that it is Lubos, who has stumbled over the Rosetta Stone here.
The really fundamental question here, is if you could control the world’s thermostat knob, just where would you set it; and who should make that decision ?
I can see whole libraries of books being written about the unintended consequences of turning mankind loose with the tools to mess with Gaia’s system.
What for example is the consequence of implanting water droplets at 3000 feet, without the latent heat of evaporation that would normally accompany that water. Wouldn’t it simply rain immediately, and have all that water simply crash back in the ocean ?

Jeremy
May 12, 2010 8:59 am

Honestly, I wish I had thought of this garbage. I missed a great opportunity to make money off of Bill Gates.

Kevin G
May 12, 2010 9:03 am

It is not as if these people really care/believe that CO2 is causing global warming – their main motivation is population control and the decrease of our species. This is why they are against use of DDT and genetically modified foods. Obviously a warmer world promotes sustainability for a larger population. They want to cool it, which has very clear and opposite effects. And of course, this brain-dead idea, along with others (like covering the arctic with white blankets), will certainly have unintended consequences. You cannot stop climate change.
Furthermore, if the problem is really CO2, at least stick to your principles and try to remove it from the atmosphere. Of course that would reveal a continuation of warming and cooling cycles.

Drew Latta
May 12, 2010 9:06 am

There is a just published paper in the journal Environmental Science and Technology that lays out an argument against the use of carbon capture and storage for economic reasons and instead advocates that building wind and nuclear capacity is more cost effective.

Jim G
May 12, 2010 9:09 am

So, anyone know whether the greenhouse effect of the water vapor or the solar radiation reduction of the supposed cloud formations will win this lunatic lottery? Someone said it very well in an above comment. What kind of minds can even dream this crap up? My bet is that the glaciers are coming back in any event. I predict continuing low sun spot cycle and increased vulcanism with glaciation setting in sooner rather than later. The ice core data says it’s about time. There, my prediction cannot be any worse than anyone else’s since NO ONE really knows to any statistically significant level.

Jack Simmons
May 12, 2010 9:16 am

wesley bruce says:
May 12, 2010 at 4:07 am

Dang I hate html. Sorry Anthony can you fix the link they stuffed me up somehow?
A preview button and a delete button would allow us to fix these glitches our selves and reduce your workload.
I assume you can see the code and spot the glitch in seconds.

Try http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_primary.asp
They have tryit screens available.

Feet2theFire
May 12, 2010 9:19 am

Willis –
Did they even test the feasibility of accelerating the water to 3,000 feet? Pumping 10,000 tons of water per second at a single elevation is one thing. Getting water lifted to 3,000 feet as a stream/fountain is one thing. Turning it into a mist and getting the mist to an elevation of 3,000 feet is another thing altogether. I don’t think it is remotely possible. The air resistance to the mist will be enormous. It will lose upward velocity almost immediately.
They aren’t proposing the towers shown are going to be 3,000 feet high, are they?
And pumping/lifting water upward has always been a problem. Getting enough “head” has – to my knowledge – been something that needs to be done in stages. There is just too much weight of water if it is liquid. If it is a vapor, almost as soon as it leaves the top of the stack its upward velocity will be near zero. And that is if they can get it to the top of the stack. Heat would help, but then that defeats the purpose, doesn’t it?
Ther are all KINDS of reasons why this is a stupid idea. Do the people know ANYTHING about reality?

May 12, 2010 9:21 am

So they are going to send the ships to the Arctic in winter, and take all summer off then?

bubbagyro
May 12, 2010 9:23 am

These poor blokes are really under the gun. They have to hurry and do something fast so they can take credit for the present cooling cycle taking place that will peak (temperatures plummet, that is) in 2030. “See, I told you it would work, the big spitting machines and the white blankies” did it!
Frankly, if anything we should be putting black blankets at the poles.

Sean Peake
May 12, 2010 9:27 am

Perhaps these giant pressure washer ships can solve their energy consumption problem by drilling for oil at the same time?

bubbagyro
May 12, 2010 9:30 am

Just for fun, go to the library and dig up old copies of Popular Science where the futurists have drawn all types of inane machines that never materialized. Remember Dick Tracy riding around in magnetic cars? B.O. Plenty said, “he who controls magnetism, controls the universe”.
I love the pictures of cities that were predicted in the year 2000, where there are magnetic unirails and magnetic cars floating around floating cities! AND, everyone was wearing the same outfit, with high Dracula collars and such. Now THAT would be a boon, to eliminate fashion and the concomitant waste. We surely could legislate that into existence, no?
As a scientist myself, I don’t dismiss off-the-wall ideas in a knee jerk response out of hand. The trick is to come inside the extremes of fantasy and come up with pragmatic solutions to REAL problems.
Bill Gates would be better directed to pour money into controlled fusion technologies. With such unlimited power from that, if feasible, anything else under the sun would be possible.

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