Trust and Mistrust

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Following up on the excellent initiative of Dr. Judith Curry (see Judith’s post and my response ), I would like to see what I can do to rebuild the justifiably lost trust in climate science. I want to bring some clarity to terms which are used all the time but which don’t seem to have an agreed upon meaning. In the process, I want to detail my own beliefs about the climate and how it works.

Figure 1. Dr Judith Curry tries to warn the greenhouse warming scientists … from Cartoons By Josh.

I don’t know about you, but I’m weary of the vague statements that characterise many of the discussions about climate change. These range from the subtle to the ridiculous. An example would be “I believe in climate change”. Given that the climate has been changing since there has been climate, what does that mean?

We also hear that there is a “consensus” … but when you ask for the actual content of the consensus, what exactly are the shared beliefs, a great silence ensues.

Often we see people being called unpleasant terms like “deniers”, with the ugly overtones of “Holocaust deniers”. I’ve been called that myself many times … but what is it that I am being accused of denying?

In an attempt to cut through the mashed potatoes and get to the meat, let me explain in question and answer format what I believe, and provide some citations for my claims. (These are only indicative citations from among many I could provide on each topic.) I will also indicate how much scientific agreement I think there is on the questions. First, some introductory questions.

Preface Question 1. Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

I bring this up to get rid of the canard that people who don’t believe the “consensus science” on global warming are evil people who don’t care about the planet. I am a passionate environmentalist, and I have been so since 1962 when I first read Silent Spring upon its publication. I believe that we have an obligation to respect the natural ecosystems that we live among. My reasons are simple. First, we have a responsibility to be good guests and good stewards here on this amazing planet. Second, I worked extensively in my life as a commercial fisherman, and I would like for my grandchildren to have the same opportunity. The only way to do this is to monitor and be careful with our effects on the earth and the biosphere.

Preface Question 2. What single word would you choose to describe your position on climate science?

Heretic. I am neither an anthopogenic global warming (AGW) supporter nor a skeptic, I believe the entire current climate paradigm is incorrect.

Question 1. Does the earth have a preferred temperature which is actively maintained by the climate system?

To me this is the question that we should answer first. I believe that the answer is yes. Despite millennia-long volcanic eruptions, despite being struck by monstrous asteroids, despite changes in the position of the continents, as near as we can tell the average temperature of the earth has only varied by about plus or minus three percent in the last half-billion years. Over the last ten thousand years, the temperature has only varied by plus or minus one percent. Over the last 150 years, the average temperature has only varied by plus or minus 0.3%.  For a system as complex and ever-changing as the climate, this is nothing short of astounding.

Before asking any other questions about the climate, we must ask why the climate has been so stable. Until we answer that question, trying to calculate the climate sensitivity is an exercise in futility.

I have explained in “The Thermostat Hypothesis” what I think is the mechanism responsible for this unexplained stability. My explanation may be wrong, but there must be some mechanism which has kept the global temperature within plus or minus 1% for ten thousand years.

I am, however, definitely in the minority with this opinion.

Question 2. Regarding human effects on climate, what is the null hypothesis?

If we are trying to see if humans have affected the climate, the null hypothesis has to be that any changes in the climate (e.g. changes in temperature, rainfall, snow extent, sea ice coverage, drought occurrence and severity) are due to natural variations.

Question 3. What observations tend to support or reject the null hypothesis?

As I show in “Congenital Climate Abnormalities”, not only are there no “fingerprints” of human effects in the records, but I find nothing that is in any way unusual or anomalous. Yes, the earth’s temperature is changing slightly … but that has been true since the earth has had a temperature.

There is no indication that the recent warming is any different from past warmings. There is more and more evidence that the Medieval Warm period was widespread, and  that it was warmer than the present.  The Greenland ice cores show that we are at the cold end of the Holocene (the current inter-glacial period). There have been no significant changes in rainfall, floods, sea level rise, Arctic temperatures, or other indicators.

In short, I find no climate metrics that show anything which is anomalous or outside of historical natural variations. In the absence of such evidence, we cannot reject the null hypothesis.

Question 4. Is the globe warming?

This is a trick question. It is a perfect example of a frequently asked question which is totally meaningless. It shows up all the time on public opinion polls, but it is devoid of meaning. To make it meaningful, it needs to have a time period attached to it. Here are some examples of my views on the question:

1 During the last century, the earth warmed slightly (less than 1°C).

2 The earth has generally cooled over the last 12,000 years. We are currently at the cold end of the Holocene (the period since the end of the last Ice Age. See the Greenland and Vostok ice records.

3 The earth has generally warmed since the depths of the Little Ice Age around 1650, at a rate somewhere around a half a degree Celsius per century. See Akasufo, the Central England Temperature (CET), and the Armagh records.

4 The largest warming in any instrumental record occurred around 1680 – 1730. See the CET and Armagh records.

5 The earth was either stable or cooled slightly from about 1945 to 1975.

6 The earth warmed slightly from about 1975 to 1998.

7 There has been no significant warming from 1995 to the present (Feb. 2010). See The Reference Frame Phil Jones.

I would say that there is widespread scientific agreement on the existence of these general trends. The amount of the warming, however, is far less certain. There is current controversy about both the accuracy of the adjustments to the temperature measurements and the strength of local effects (UHI, poor station siting, warmth from irrigation, etc.). See e.g. McKitrick, Spencer, Christy and Norris, Ladochy et al.., Watts, SurfaceStations, and Jones on these questions.

Question 5. Are humans responsible for global warming?

This is another trick question that often shows up on polls. The question suffers from two problems. First is the lack of a time period discussed above. The second is the question of the amount of responsibility. Generally, the period under discussion is the post-1900 warming. So let me rephrase the question as “Are humans responsible for some part of the late 20th century warming?”

To this question I would say “Yes”. Again, there is widespread scientific agreement on that simplistic question, but as usual, the devil is in the details discussed in Question 4.

Question 6. If the answer to Question 5 is “Yes”, how are humans affecting the climate?

I think that humans affect the climate in two main ways. The first is changes in land use/land cover, or what is called “LU/LC”. I believe that when you cut down a forest, you cut down the clouds. This mechanism has been implicated in e.g. the decline in the Kilimanjaro Glacier. When you introduce widespread irrigation, the additional water vapor both warms and moderates the climate. When you pave a parking lot, local temperatures rise. See e.g. Christie and Norris, Fall et al., Kilimanjaro.

The second main way humans affect climate is through soot, which I will broadly define as black and brown carbon. Black carbon comes mostly from burning of fossil fuels, while brown carbon comes mostly from the burning of biofuels. This affects the climate in two ways. In the air, the soot absorbs incoming solar radiation, and prevents it from striking the ground. This reduces the local temperature. In addition, when soot settles out on ice and snow, it accelerates the melting of the ice and snow. This increases the local temperature by reducing the surface albedo. See e.g. Jacobson.

There is little scientific agreement on this question. A number of scientists implicate greenhouse gases as the largest contributor. Other scientists say that LU/LC is the major mover. The IPCC places values on these and other so-called “forcings”, but it admits that our scientific understanding of many of forcings is “low”.

Question 7. How much of the post 1980 temperature change is due to human activities?

Here we get into very murky waters. Is the overall balance of the warming and cooling effects of soot a warming or a cooling? I don’t know, and there is little scientific agreement on the effect of soot. In addition, as shown above there is no indication that the post 1980 temperature rise is in any way unusual. It is not statistically different from earlier periods of warming. As a result, I believe that humans have had little effect on the climate, other than locally. There is little scientific agreement on this question.

Next, some more general and theoretical questions.

Question 8. Does the evidence from the climate models show that humans are responsible for changes in the climate?

This is another trick question. Climate models do not produce evidence. Evidence is observable and measurable data about the real world. Climate model results are nothing more than the beliefs and prejudices of the programmers made tangible. While the results of climate models can be interesting and informative, they are not evidence.

Question 9. Are the models capable of projecting climate changes for 100 years?

My answer to this is a resounding “no”. The claim is often made that it is easier to project long-term climate changes than short-term weather changes. I see no reason to believe that is true. The IPCC says:

“Projecting changes in climate due to changes in greenhouse gases 50 years from now is a very different and much more easily solved problem than forecasting weather patterns just weeks from now. To put it another way, long-term variations brought about by changes in the composition of the atmosphere are much more predictable than individual weather events.” [from page 105, 2007 IPCC WG1, FAQ 1.2]

To me, that seems very doubtful. The problem with that theory is that climate models have to deal with many more variables than weather models. They have to model all of the variables that weather models contain, plus:

• Land biology

• Sea biology

• Ocean currents

• Ground freezing and thawing

• Changes in sea ice extent and area

• Aerosol changes

• Changes in solar intensity

• Average volcanic effects

• Snow accumulation, area, melt, and sublimation

• Effect of melt water pooling on ice

• Freezing and thawing of lakes

• Changes in oceanic salinity

• Changes in ice cap and glacier thickness and extent

• Changes in atmospheric trace gases

• Variations in soil moisture

• Alterations in land use/land cover

• Interactions between all of the above

• Mechanisms which tend to maximise the sum of work and entropy according to the Constructal Law.

How can a more complex situation be modeled more easily and accurately than a simpler situation? That makes no sense at all.

Next, the problem with weather models has been clearly identified as the fact that weather is chaotic. This means that no matter how well the model starts out, within a short time it will go off the rails. But the same is true for climate, it is also chaotic. Thus, there is no reason to assume that we can predict it any better than we can predict the weather. See Mandelbrot on the chaotic nature of climate.

Finally, climate models have done very poorly in the short-term. There has been no statistically significant warming in the last fifteen years. This was not predicted by a single climate model. People keep saying that the models do well in the long-term … but no one has ever identified when the changeover occurs. Are they unreliable up to twenty-five years and reliable thereafter? Fifty years?

Question 10. Are current climate theories capable of explaining the observations?

Again I say no. For example, the prevailing theory is that forcing is linearly related to climate, such that a change of X in forcing results in a change of Y in temperature. The size of this temperature change resulting from a given forcing is called the “climate sensitivity”. In 1980, based on early simple computer climate models, the temperature resulting from a change in forcing of 3.7 watts per square meter (W/m2) was estimated to result in a temperature change of between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees Celsius. See e.g. Green and Armstrong 2007.

Since 1980, there has been a huge increase in computing power. Since 1980, there has also been a huge increase in the size and complexity of computer models. Since 1980, thousands of man hours and billions of dollars have been thrown at this question. Despite these advances, the modern estimate of the climate sensitivity is almost unchanged from its 1980 value.

To me, this lack of any advance in accuracy indicates that we have an incorrect understanding of the forces governing the climate. Otherwise, our bigger, faster and better models would have narrowed the uncertainty of the climate sensitivity. But they have not.

Question 11. Is the science settled?

To this one I would answer no, no, a thousand times no. We are just a the beginning of the study of climate. New information and new theories and new forcings are put forward on a regular basis. See e.g. Lu. The data is poor, short, and full of holes. The signal is tiny and buried in a huge amount of noise. We don’t know if the earth has a thermostat. In short, the study of climate is an infant science which is still poorly understood.

Question 12. Is climate science a physical science?

Well, sort of. It is a very strange science, in that to my knowledge it is the only physical science whose object of study is not a thing, not a physical object or phenomenon, but an average. This is because climate is defined as the average of weather over a suitably long period of time (usually taken to be 30 years.) The implications of this are not widely appreciated. Inter alia, it means that statistics is one of the most important parts of climate science.

Unfortunately, a number of what I might call the “leading blights” of climate science, like Michael Mann with his HockeySchtick, have only the most rudimentary understanding of statistics. This initially got him into trouble in his foray into the area of paleoclimate statistics, trouble which he has only compounded by his later statistical errors.

Question 13. Is the current peer-review system inadequate, and if so, how can it be improved?

There are a number of problems with the current peer-review system, some of which are highlighted in the abuses of that system revealed in the CRU emails.

There are several easy changes we could make in peer review that would help things immensely:

1. Publish the names of the reviewers and their reviews along with the paper. The reviews are just as important as the paper, as they reveal the views of other scientists on the issues covered. This will stop the “stab in the back in the dark” kind of reviewing highlighted in the CRU emails.

2. Do not reveal the names of the authors to the reviewers. While some may be able to guess the names from various clues in the paper, the reviews should be “double-blind” (neither side knows the names of the others) until publication.

3. Do the reviewing online, in a password protected area. This will allow each reviewer to read, learn from, and discuss the reviews of others in real time. The process often takes way too long, and consists of monologues rather than a round-table discussion of the problems with the paper.

4. Include more reviewers. The CRU emails show that peer review is often just an “old-boys club”, with the reviewing done by two or three friends of the author. Each journal should allow a wide variety of scientists to comment on pending papers. This should include scientists from other disciplines. For example, climate science has suffered greatly from a lack of statisticians reviewing papers. As noted above, much of climate science is statistical analysis, yet on many papers either none or only the most cursory statistical review has been done. Also, engineers should be invited to review papers as well. Many theories would benefit from practical experience. Finally, “citizen scientists” such as myself should not be excluded from the process. The journals should solicit as wide a range of views on the subject as they can. This can only help the peer review process.

5. The journals must insist on the publication of data and computer codes. A verbal description of what mathematics has been done is totally inadequate. As we saw in the “HockeyStick”, what someone thinks or says they have done may not be what they actually did. Only an examination of the code can reveal that. Like my high science teacher used to say, “Show your work.”

Question 14. Regarding climate, what action (if any) should we take at this point?

I disagree with those who say that the “precautionary principle” means that we should act now. I detail my reasons for this assertion at “Climate Caution and Precaution”.  At that page I also list the type of actions that we should be taking, which are “no regrets” actions. These are actions which will have beneficial results whether or not the earth is warming.

So that is where I stand on the climate questions. I think that the earth actively maintains a preferred temperature. I think that man is having an effect on local climate in various places, but that globally man’s effect is swamped by the regulating action of clouds and thunderstorms. I think that the local effect is mainly through LU/LC changes and soot. I think that the climate regulating mechanism is much stronger than either of these forcings and is stronger than CO2 forcing. I think that at this point the actions we should take are “no regrets” actions.

Does that make me a “denier”? And if so, what am I denying?

Finally, I would like to invite Dr. Judith Curry in particular, and any other interested scientists, to publicly answer these same questions here on Watts Up With That. There has been far too much misunderstanding of everyone’s position on these important issues. A clear statement of what each of us thinks about the climate and the science will go a long way towards making the discussion both more focused and more pleasant, and perhaps it will tend to heal the well-earned distrust that many have of climate science.

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327 Comments
Murray Lane
April 1, 2010 1:10 am

Your review is very clear and understandable. My question is: Why is it that politicians and alarmists cannot understand the simplicity of your message and how do we change the message to ensure they do understand it? PML

April 1, 2010 1:14 am

[quote scienceofdoom (00:16:14) :
Willis Eschenbach]If models matched results I might think of it as “potential evidence”. And when they do it makes me pay attention.
[/quote]

.
Depends on what you mean by “matched results”. A model matching past results isn’t even a suggestion that it has any capability at all to match future results.
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This problem is very well known in the field of artificial intelligence, where “overtraining” a model results in the ability to “predict” past results almost perfectly, while being totally useless at predicting unknown results.
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I think other areas of math refer to the same “overtraining” phenomena as “curve fitting”. It’s extremely easy to do. In computer code, you need only a few well-intentioned if statements.

Peter Miller
April 1, 2010 1:37 am

As a private sector geologist and therefore natural sceptic, I agree almost 100% with what you say.
I would only like to add – as I think anyone in business will agree – you let a typical academic into line management or decision making processes – the inevitable result is almost always either waste and/or chaos.
Most of today’s problems with climate science are the result of unregulated, public sector, academics being encouraged by unscrupulous politicians seeking new and innovative forms of taxation to fund welfare dependence schemes and the bloated bureaucracies.

TinyCo2
April 1, 2010 1:38 am

Another nice article, thanks.
Unlike GaryT I think it’s good to be a ‘generalist’, because cross pollination of sciences and other subjects allows you to see a bigger picture.
For those like Willis who are interested in many things, there is a great BBC programme about the mathematics of chaos. It discusses Mandelbrot, the Butterfly Effect and many other issues that are relevant to modelling climate.

There’s another good programme here, it’s not quite as good but worth a watch.

brent
April 1, 2010 1:58 am

Re-Energize Iowa: An Opportunity to Lead the Nation in Stewardship of the Earth
and Creation Jim Hansen, 5 August 2007
A price on carbon emissions is needed to stretch oil and gas supplies as we develop technologies needed for the world ‘beyond petroleum’. The carbon price will drive efficiency and low-carbon or no-carbon energy sources. If instead we continue business-as-usual, addicted to more and more fossil fuel use, as oil begins to run out we will be unprepared,
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2007/Iowa_20070805.pdf
Richard Nehring (16:30:08) :
“Traversing the Mountaintop: World Fossil Fuel Production to 2050
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/23/loehle-on-hoffman-et-al-and-co2-trajectories/
Pricing carbon as CO2 operates as a Proxy (of sorts) for HC Depletion. If one wanted to use an environmental Ruse/Hoax as a Proxy for HC Depletion , there is no option but to demonize C as CO2, as there are good technical solutions for most real pollution problems (even if not all implemented as perhaps they should have been )
cheers
brent

April 1, 2010 2:09 am

Eschenbach, a fantastic article, and another one I would have liked to have written. I particularly like your comment on the null hypothesis (great minds think alike! …)
Formally, I think that should be expressed as the “probability that the signal under investigation is not the normal signal”. This is vastly better than the climategate forecaster’s usual “proof” of “it has warmed”.
The global temperature is a natural signal, it has various frequency components (1 century = 3 x10^-10Hz). Some are random noise, others are periodic and the obvioius one is at 3×10^-8Hz) — the mains hum of the climatic signal!
Now this is where I get stuck on the statistics, because it’s easy to understand the transformation from physical to frequency space (aka fourier transform), but now instead of one signal, you have a multitude of frequencies and phases, and the question should now be:
“what is the probability of having this assemble of frequencies and phases in the suspect (CO2) region of the signal, given that we have a very short and therefore statistically not very significant, normal range of frequencies and phases.” As an engineer I can see that the two regions are pretty identical, but I can also see that the signal is difficult to detect, and I know that that can be stated formally as a probability if someone could do the maths.
And to make matters worse, the stimulus (CO2) is a ramp, which has some of the least distinctive frequency-space signatures.
As far as I can see there is absolutely no reason why there cannot be a formal calculation of the probability that the current global temperature signal contains an abnormal component. I’m sure there are people out there who can perform such calculations – and one thinks of passive detection of submarines using changes in background noise, or perhaps stealth radar as obvious examples of teasing out the “signal from the noise” using Frequency-space-statistics (that’s what I would call it – no idea what it is really called – no idea even if it exists as a area of maths! – no it’s got to exist, somewhere there’s an egg head could do this in ten minutes!)

Nick Good
April 1, 2010 2:27 am

>has only varied by about plus or minus three percent in the last half-billion years. Over the last ten thousand years, the temperature has only varied by plus or minus one percent. <Woooah! 3% change in temperature is of the order of 30c….remember temperature starts at absolute zero, not the arbitrary freezing point of water upon which the celcius scale is based. If you are going to talk about a change in temperature you need to talk in Kelvin. Absolute zero starts at -273c.

April 1, 2010 2:46 am

Excellent post, Willis and I am grateful for your ability and desire to share clearly-expounded ideas that have a moral and ethical base.
I took the time to read your CV and it’s obvious from that that you are not a mere ‘generalist’, which is often an excuse for an inability to learn and to do any one thing well, but a proper ‘Renaissance bloke’ in the mould of Leonardo da Vinci, unlike many of the scientists I once worked with who were frighteningly incompetent in what much of the working population regard as ‘ordinary stuff’ such as repairing vehicles or building boats. Studies I have read about ‘generalists’ indicates that many are regarded as eccentrics by mass society but small communities recognise their talents and revere them.
I guess WUWT is a small community.

Another Ian
April 1, 2010 2:51 am

Les Johnson (20:31:24)
OT but I had occasion recently to realise that
“the road to good intentions can be paved by hell”

April 1, 2010 3:06 am

Willis, I’ve just had another look at the “signals” and I’ve remembered where I got stuck last time. CO2 doesn’t just suddenly start increasing at some date, and there isn’t a “before and after” to the global signal. What you end up with is a frequency graph and a decision as to whether this is “normal” … which requires a model of normality, which then has to rely on highly suspect tree-ring data.
So this isn’t going to give the clear-cut probability I was suggesting. However there are some useful areas of investigation:
1. A comparison of the frequency of the modern temperature signal with the tree-ring signal. In theory these should be the same, except for the addition of any CO2 signal. As the CO2 signal appears to be dominant at low frequencies, the higher frequency components of the two signals should have the same amplitude. (which is like listening to a tape of a supposed noisy neighbour … and listening to background noise to see whether the tape has been turned up to appear to exaggerate the noise!)
2. I strongly suspect the amplitude of low frequency (century) noise components of the tree-ring signal has been significantly reduced. Again, if one could show that this is true, that the methodology for compiling the proxy temperature signal significantly reduces low-frequency component, this would suggest the real temperature signal has much more variation on the century-to-century scale than would be suggested by the raw signal.
3. It should also be possible to derive an estimate of the signal/noise ratio of CO2/natural variation … although I remember why I didn’t go further … the CO2 signal component is hellish in terms of distinguishing signal from noise. Which really means there is no leeway for micky mouse university statistics and this analysis really needs to be done by someone totally familiar with all the statistical traps.

Jimbo
April 1, 2010 3:06 am

Question 11. Is the science settled?
“To this one I would answer no, no, a thousand times no. We are just a the beginning of the study of climate. New information and new theories and new forcings are put forward on a regular basis. See e.g. Lu. The data is poor, short, and full of holes. The signal is tiny and buried in a huge amount of noise. We don’t know if the earth has a thermostat. In short, the study of climate is an infant science which is still poorly understood.”
———-
As well as no computer model predicted the last 15 years of lack of warming puts AGW on thin ice indeed. By the way the IPCC reports are packed full of the word “uncertainties.”

Rob R
April 1, 2010 3:18 am

davidmhoffer
Regarding clouds and glacial periods. The balance of paleoclimate evidence is that the Earth’s atmosphere is both drier and dustier during glacial periods, as shown by the dust content of ice cores in ice dating back over 400,000 years. This might imply less cloud as you suggest. Whether this causes heating (more heat getting through to the surface) or more cooling (less of a cloud blanket) I wouldn’t be able to say.

kwik
April 1, 2010 3:22 am

Excellent post, Willis.

Louis Hissink
April 1, 2010 3:30 am

Willis,
Thanks for the kind words – seems were are of class 1947!
To expand a little on Willis’ note that I am a diamond geologist, (formerly De Beers) it’s from that area of geology, which is concerned with the behaviour of the Earth’s mantle and the genesis of diamond bearing volcanic rocks, that got me started on the Plasma Model theory enunciated by Alfven, Peratt, Lerner, Eastman, Thornhill, etc.
Field evidence of the volcanic vents that host diamond bearing kimberlite demonstrates that these structures were made by a vertically downward machining, or screw-like vortex mechanism. That is, the initial eruption of the kimberlite via a small fissure at the surface, then developed as a rapidly rotating, downward screwing process forming the almost smooth walls of the kimberlite pipes. (Basically the model proposed by Barbara Scott-Smith).
What we did not know was the “how” since observed volcanic activity was of zero help.
We did notice that periods of kimberlite eruption during geological time seem also to be associated with biosphere mass extinctions but because of the Lyellian factor, those events were separated by immense periods of time, and, as Dr. Megan Clark, then senior research scientists for Western Mining Corporation, told me, an idea not permitted in mainstream geology; the idea that there was a causal relationship between kimberlite eruptions and mass species extinctions.
The discovery of Kristian Birkeland’s work, initially via Eric Lerner’s “The Big Bang Never Happened” book, led to the realisation that kimberlite eruptions seemed to be electrical discharge events in which the self rotating mode of Birkeland currents provided the energetic source for the pipe machining process.
So far so good.
But what would cause that electrical machining process onto the Earth’s land surface? It isn’t observed happening now.
Which led to revisiting Velikovsky’s ideas, and while he got some things wrong, generally he was right in his interpretation of the historical data that there was another force operating in the cosmos in addition to gravity – electromagnetics, or the Plasma Model as we now know it.
And once you start to understand the physics of the Plasma Model, you then have to, by compulsion of fact, reject the AGW hypothesis.
This is not to deny humans affect the local weather, we do, as much as a Canadian Beaver affects the local creek systems with its dam building efforts; except when the beaver does it, it is ok, but when we do it, it is not ok.
Willis linked to my site, Geoplasma, and it is a continuing work. My long term goal is to reverse the effect Charles Lyell had on science, followed by a denconstruction of Harlow Shapley’s influence on astronomy and astrophysics. As I also work as a professional exploration geologist, the pure science described in Geoplasma, takes time and often I feel compelled to write comments about the inanities uttered by the Climate Worshippers, and which is thus a distraction from the vocational goal. (and yes I started studying geology in 1960 and haven’t stopped – for me it is a vocation, not a job).
AGW is wrong not because they did the wrong experiments, or framed an inappropriate (how I love that crap term) hypothesis, but because the proposers of the hypothesis don’t understand physics, and hence science.

rbateman
April 1, 2010 3:33 am

Epicycles come to mind: They were close in thier days, but were not totally precise. They had data problems which Copernicus exposed. The biggest problem was that as a model they mimiced the process to a certain extent and led to a false conclusion. They had 2000 yrs to perfect them, but they were still wrong.
This is the same problem with GCM’s. They are wrong and lead to the wrong conclusions. The climate, to the warming climate modeler, appears to be precessing, but that’s just a wild guess, as the nature of the process eludes them.
In the end, we will have to go back to the data (what’s left of it) and start from scratch.

Louis Hissink
April 1, 2010 3:35 am

Willis
Totally OT but your surname is a variant of Escher, the Dutchman Heironymus. (Chek spilling pls).
I am related, via my mother, to him.

Area Man
April 1, 2010 3:49 am

Great job cutting through the BS.
I look forward to seeing the answers from Curry, and perhaps others in the mainstream (would “mainstream” be better described as “government funded”?) Climate Science community.
I would especially like to hear their answer to the question “… what am I denying?”.

Louis Hissink
April 1, 2010 3:52 am

Willis,
Bosch actually, having a senior moment. (just spent 2 days working 3D computer modelling of some geophysical data, and, if it is possible, causing brain numbing).

Joe
April 1, 2010 4:17 am

Willis Eschenbach (01:48:33)
I agree with a great deal with what you have said.
Unless you incorporate everything into the mix, just firing off on one gas is like selling snake oil to the masses. Very incompentent to say one gas comes off of everthing that man has touched and is the cause of planetary disruption.
You missed a biggie in your list and that is “Atmospheric Pressure Increase”.
This does not show on the surface of the planet do to rotation. Being an enclosed biosphere pressure increase or decrease does “funky” things to the eco-system. Many cases of changing pressures in experiments can change whatever is being put into this experiment that is fragile in nature. Our atmosphere is also pulled along by the planet so, any increase in density can have a change in speed of atmosphere being pulled along.
Darwin’s hypothsis is wrong. Animals didn’t evolve.
This planet did and is still in a constant change.
The theories we are working with today will not work in the past nor will they work in the future due to this planet’s constant changes( I am talking millions of years).
Also for some unfathomable reason, scientists believe that sun and planets will rotate forever due to nuclear???? The MOON slows the planet????
Our core is 2 billion years younger than the planet(head scratchers)????
When studying rotation, there are only 2 forces. Input energy into the object and letting that infused energy to be used up. This gets into a whole different set of changes as well. Mass density changes due to speed of rotation.
So science itself that we believe right now iis not 100% correct.

Louis Hissink
April 1, 2010 4:18 am

Willis Eschenbach (01:35:18) :

scienceofdoom (00:16:14), thanks as always for your interesting observations.


With “observable and measurable data about the real world” you provide evidence for your “theory”. Your “observable and measurable data about the real world” has to be matched to something.
Whether we call that a model or a set of equations doesn’t really matter.

So the models are the “theory of climate” that the observations have to match? Given the un-predicted 15 year hiatus in warming that none of the models predicted, I’d call them a failure if that is your yardstick

A computer model is sensu-strictu an hypothesis. It is an elaboration from a prior, simply stated, idea.
It can never, ever, form the basis of a proof of the hypothesis under investigation, as that would be an unequivocal assertion of circular reasoning.
[Reformatted to what I think the author intended]

40 shades of green
April 1, 2010 4:26 am

Willis,
You shoud write a book.
Anthony,
you should collect the best articles that appear on your site into an an annual book and sell it at Christmas time. Everyone is always looking for a 15 to 30 dollar present for their uncle (or favourite warmista).
You have I don’t know how many uniqe visitors per month. Is it 100,000? If 10% bought a book at 20 bucks a go that’s 200K gross with a tidy profit if you self publish.
I would probably buy several for a number of warmistas.
40 Shades

Judith Curry
April 1, 2010 4:28 am

Hi Willis, thanks for continuing the dialogue, i hope to have time this weekend to comment.

rbateman
April 1, 2010 4:29 am

Rob R (03:18:24) :
Or better yet, how does an ice-age progress?
As the climate turns colder, there is less evaporation, and more ice isn’t melted.
Sea levels drop, and relative elevations above sea level therefore increase. Ice would advance to lower latitudes as well as in absolute elevation. Remember our current mode of representing elevation is relative to sea level. Large ice masses are resistant to melting and persist. Runoff would be minimized, and therefore parching of low-lying areas would dominate. Sublimation is my guess for the equilibrium point of ice-age advance. Higher relative elevations would make for a windier planet???
Cold, windy, dry & dusty would be the dominant feature of such a scenario.
Now, how de we get back out of that fix?
Someone some decades back put forth the weight of ice pressing down continents and reducing relative elevations leading to slow melting as they slowly sank. Made sense as they showed the “Greenland Ice Cap Bowl” feature.

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