From Fox News, word that the Met Office has circulated a proposal that intends to completely start over with raw surface temperature data in a transparent process.
Here’s the proposal from the Met Office metoffice_proposal_022410 (PDF). Unfortunately it is not searchable, as they still seem to be living in the typewriter age, having photoscanned the printed document.
I’d feel better about it though if they hadn’t used the word “robust”. Every time I see that word in the context of climate data it makes me laugh. It seems though they already have concluded the effort will find no new information. Given that they are apparently only interested in ending the controversy over transparency, and because GHCN (source for GISS and HadCRUT) originates at NCDC with it’s own set of problems and it is controlled by one man, Dr. Thomas Peterson, it means that we’ll have our work cut out for us again. In my opinion, this proposal is CYA and does not address the basic weaknesses of the data collection.
Britain’s Weather Office Proposes Climate-Gate Do-Over
By George Russell.
At a meeting on Monday of about 150 climate scientists, representatives of Britain’s weather office quietly proposed that the world’s climatologists start all over again to produce a new trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.
After the firestorm of criticism called Climate-gate, the British government’s official Meteorological Office apparently has decided to wave a white flag and surrender.
At a meeting on Monday of about 150 climate scientists in the quiet Turkish seaside resort of Antalya, representatives of the weather office (known in Britain as the Met Office) quietly proposed that the world’s climate scientists start all over again on a “grand challenge” to produce a new, common trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.
In other words, conduct investigations into modern global warming in a way that the Met Office bureaucrats hope will end the mammoth controversy over world temperature data they collected that has been stirred up by their secretive and erratic ways.
The executive summary of the Met Office proposal to the World Meteorological Organization’s Committee for Climatology was obtained by Fox News. In it, the Met Office defends its controversial historical record of temperature readings, along with similar data collected in the U.S., as a “robust indicator of global change.” But it admits that “further development” of the record is required “in particular to better assess the risks posed by changes in extremes of climate.”
As a result, the proposal says, “we feel that it is timely to propose an international effort to reanalyze surface temperature data in collaboration with the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), which has the responsibility for global observing and monitoring systems for weather and climate.”
The new effort, the proposal says, would provide:
–“verifiable datasets starting from a common databank of unrestricted data”
–“methods that are fully documented in the peer reviewed literature and open to scrutiny;”
–“a set of independent assessments of surface temperature produced by independent groups using independent methods,”
–“comprehensive audit trails to deliver confidence in the results;”
–“robust assessment of uncertainties associated with observational error, temporal and geographical in homogeneities.”
Click here to read the executive summary.
The Met Office proposal asserts that “we do not anticipate any substantial changes in the resulting global and continental-scale … trends” as a result of the new round of data collection. But, the proposal adds, “this effort will ensure that the data sets are completely robust and that all methods are transparent.”
Despite the bravado, those precautions and benefits are almost a point-by-point surrender by the Met Office to the accusations that have been leveled at its Hadley Climate Centre in East Anglia, which had stonewalled climate skeptics who demanded to know more about its scientific methods. (An inquiry established that the institution had flouted British freedom of information laws in refusing to come up with the data.)
When initially contacted by Fox News to discuss the proposal, its likely cost, how long it would take to complete, and its relationship to the Climate-gate scandal, the Met Office declared that no press officers were available to answer questions. After a follow-up call, the Office said it would answer soon, but did not specify when. At the time of publication, Fox News had not heard back.
The Hadley stonewall began to crumble after a gusher of leaked e-mails revealed climate scientists, including the center’s chief, Phil Jones, discussing how to keep controversial climate data out of the hands of the skeptics, keep opposing scientific viewpoints out of peer-reviewed scientific journals, and bemoaning that their climate models failed to account for more than a decade of stagnation in global temperatures. Jones later revealed that key temperature datasets used in Hadley’s predictions had been lost, and could not be retrieved for verification.
Jones stepped down temporarily after the British government announced an ostensibly independent inquiry into the still-growing scandal, but that only fanned the flames, as skeptics pointed out ties between several panel members and the Hadley Centre. In an interview two weeks ago, Jones also admitted that there has been no “statistically significant” global warming in the past 15 years.
The Met Office’s shift in position could be a major embarrassment for British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who as recently as last month declared that climate skeptics were “flat-earthers” and “anti-science” for refusing to accept that man-made activity was a major cause of global warming. Brown faces a tough election battle for his government, perhaps as early as May.
It is also a likely blow to Rajendra Pachauri, head of the United Nations backed International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), whose most recent report, published in 2007, has been exposed by skeptics as rife with scientific errors, larded with un-reviewed and non-scientific source materials, and other failings.
As details of the report’s sloppiness emerged, the ranks of skepticism have swelled to include larger numbers of the scientific community, including weather specialists who worked on the sprawling IPCC report. Calls for Pachauri’s resignation have come from organizations as normally opposed as the Competitive Enterprise Institute and the British chapter of Greenpeace. So far, he has refused to step down.
The Met Office proposes that the new international effort to recalibrate temperature data start at a “workshop”‘ hosted by Hadley. The Met Office would invite “key players” to start the “agreed community challenge” of creating the new datasets.
Then, in a last defense of its old ways, the Met proposals argues says that its old datasets “are adequate for answering the pressing 20th Century questions of whether climate is changing and if so how. But they are fundamentally ill-conditioned to answer 21st Century questions such as how extremes are changing and therefore what adaptation and mitigation decisions should be taken.”
Those “21st Century questions” are not small and they are very far from cheap. At Copenhagen, wealthy nations were being asked to spend trillions of dollars on answering them, a deal that only fell through when China, India, and other near-developed nations refused to join the mammoth climate-control deal.
The question after the Met Office’s shift in stance may be whether environmentalists eager to move those mountains of cash are also ready to stand down until the 21st century questions get 21st century answers.
=========================
h/t to Dr. Richard North, EU Referendum
This just sounds like a typical UK civil servant’s way of getting more funding before the AGW train finally hits the buffers.
I quite agree. When I see the words ‘robust, ‘vigorous’ or, for that matter, ‘stakeholder’: very popular with the UK Labour government, you can be sure it means exactly the opposite.
If they are smart they will invite Mcintyre and Watts to the workshop.
I don’t think that its wise to question the honesty of this process before it starts.
THE SMART THING TO DO PEOPLE IS THIS.
campaign for things that will give you TRUST in this process, like the inclusion of Watts and Mcintyre in that workshop.
Don’t criticize. Suggest additional measures that will give you trust. Take part in creating a science you can then trust
I know Anthony and Steve. Both will use the opportunity to move science forward.
But somebody on the other side has to suggest this, perhaps Judith Curry.
If you get an opportunity to ask her nicely, please do so
I thought the raw data had been thrown away. Funny. I wonder where it turned up?
As for their remark about not expecting to find any differences this time round, then they either believe their own spin, in which case they may well approach this in an honest and transparant manner, or they don’t believe it. Then expect every kind of trick, to “hide the decline.”
“… a meeting on Monday of about 150 climate scientists in the quiet Turkish seaside resort of Antalya …”
Off to a good boondoggling start. There’s money to be spent!
Recreating the data isn’t likely to accomplish anything. They still don’t know how to identify the portion of the record attributable to CO2 and what parts are just nature doing her thing. That’s why the other guys are using models – and ignoring the results that don’t match reality.
I have zero confidence in their honesty to produce an unbiased dataset of any kind.
I think theyll rig it again. Leopards dont change their spots.
Let’s call a spade a spade here.
The British Met Office has become a joke, and when it comes to doom-laden predictions nobody believes a word they say anymore. They are also faced in six weeks’ time with the humiliating prospect of being dropped by the BBC as the national weather forecasters of choice.
Yes, indeed, extinction from the British public’s conscientiousness is staring the Met Office in the face. Being part of the global warming lying propaganda machine has its price, after all.
So now they say they want to create a “common trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.” Well, frankly, I don’t believe them. We all know what happened to the last “common trove of global temperature data” they had. And let’s not forget how they fought tooth and nail to keep everyone away from what should have been publicly-accessible data. Broke the Freedom of Information laws, too, though I don’t notice any prosecutions over this shameful behaviour.
As for being “open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.”, people should note that this access can be revoked at any time for any reason they want to give, such as when it doesn’t support their climate models. Also notice how they’ve left out any mention of the public having access to the methods by which they have been processing the input data, tweaking it, pulling it, pushing it, deleting bits of it, and generally torturing the data until it confesses and says what they want it to say.
Chuckles (09:09:18) :
I’m with John (09:02), what are 150 staff of the British Met Office doing in Turkey, and on whose dime are they there?
It better not be mine.
Don’t worry, mate, it’ll probably be ours:-)
I welcome this news with a measure of caution, like those dare devil adventure movies when the hero says, “that was too easy, somethings wrong……..!” Do you get the idea? It could just be a put up job, rather along the lines of British comedy series Yes Minister when Civil Servant Sir Humphry Appleby says to the Minister, “Never hold a Public Enquiry unless you know the outcome beforehand!”. As others have pointed out, they have pretty much concluded that the new dataset will be not much different from the old one, but then again I wouldn’t have expected it to be. Just what are those “adjustments” that they do to raw data that shows no significant warming, but does after the applied “adjustments”?
Wonderful news. We’re making progress.
I noticed Anthony mentions the PDF is not searchable. Does anyone have OCR software to convert the pdf to one with searchable text? It is probably easy enough to do that.
Just make the process tranparent and open to everyone and let the data fall where it may…
They were probably at the meeting(s) referenced here:
http://www.gewex.org/gewex_meetings.html
Start again with what? didn’t they LOSE all their records.
Come one can we stop complaining about the cost. Surely the reason we’ve got into this stupid mess was because we tried to get global temperature data on the cheap and we paid peanuts and got monkeys.
And, remember that although the Met has been part of the problem the real scientists in the Met can be part of the solution. Again, the Met isn’t universally paid up members of the lunatic warming brigade. There are sensible people there, particularly the old hands who have seen the kinds of mistakes that can be made in forecasting, and who must be pretty miffed at the way the met Office has been taken over by PR media consultants like the WWF head.
Give these guys some decent temperature data and a management that aren’t trying to flog global warming, and I’ve no doubt they will see the error of their ways. Or as Michael fish would put it:-
“Earlier on today, apparently, a woman rang the BBC and said she heard there wasn’t global warming on the way… well, if you’re watching, don’t worry, there is”.
Start again with what? the same pack of crooks that organised the current mess.
R.S.Brown (09:14:31) :
This “linkable” proposal is actually a superb response to the
flurry of anticipated FOIA requests its announcement will
otherwise spawn.
However, the discussions that went into drafting
the proposal are not so transparent.
Does this mean the old “raw” data is available somewhere,
in some format ?
They always have been, unfortunately there are restrictions on access to some of them by the originating weather bureaux. That is why the Met Office is doing this via the WMO. Just because you’re granted the right to use some data, e.g. CRU, doesn’t give you the right to disseminate it (or even to keep it beyond the duration of the study).
Alan the Brit (10:27:16) :
Chuckles (09:09:18) :
I’m with John (09:02), what are 150 staff of the British Met Office doing in Turkey, and on whose dime are they there?
It better not be mine.
Don’t worry, mate, it’ll probably be ours:-)
Reading comprehension not John’s strong point apparently.
Kate (10:27:14) :
So now they say they want to create a “common trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.” Well, frankly, I don’t believe them. We all know what happened to the last “common trove of global temperature data” they had. And let’s not forget how they fought tooth and nail to keep everyone away from what should have been publicly-accessible data. Broke the Freedom of Information laws, too, though I don’t notice any prosecutions over this shameful behaviour.
As far as I am aware none of your statement is true, so what you know isn’t very reliable.
OH, heck we’re about to lose our funding to generate temperature data the old way. Let’s get more money to fix what we did with the last chunk of tax payer money we got.
A great scam if you can pull it off.
“Britain’s Weather Office Proposes Climate-Gate Do-Over”
Does that mean we’re going to get a brand new Climate-gate?
Just a guess here but will the new conclusion be; “wow its worse than we thought.”
To be legitimate the redo has to start with the real raw data, i.e the handwritten temperature logs from the individual weather stations. That data then needs to be copied into databases without any adjustments.
On the missing data.
The story goes something like this. When Mc asked for the data CRU responded that some of the data (raw data) had gone missing.
In the mails Jones says that he can recover the lost data by going
back to the original sources. That’s my recollection.
So its like this: Jones had receieved raw data from NWS around the world.
over the course of years some of this data was lost. They will now go
back to the original source to request the data again.
That’s a charitable reading of the situation.
Does this mean that NCDC is also included in the ‘recount’ effort?
Pascvaks (08:50:43) :
“A “relook” or a “new raw data open access methodology” accomplishes nothing without a major housecleaning of the MET, the NCDC, and every other “official” agency involved.”
You are correct but you didn’t go far enough. Any remake is a waste of time and money.
Sufacestations.org has established that the USHCN data is worthless and can not be “cleaned up”. All Surfacestations.org did was show that about 10% of US stations are currently valid. There is no reason to assume that these same stations were valid, 5, 10, 50, 100 or more years ago. We only have a snapshot and to verify these stations were valid in the past we need to know what they looked like in the past, who took the measurements and how diligent they were. None of this is available. It may be an inconvenient truth but it is the truth.
Let’s talk about the rest of the world. Sorry about being an American chauvinist but if the US records are unacceptable today and, therefore, in the past what makes you think that any other continents records were OK 100 years plus ago? This isn’t a court of law where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. These records should be considered suspect until proven accurate and that is simply not possible.
What we are left with is satellite data that only goes back to 1979 and proxy data that needs to be proven to be accurate before it can be trusted. The fact that the “hide the decline trick” was used shows that the proxy data can not be trusted. That’s the biggest issue with the “trick”. When the tree rings didn’t match the thermometer records they stopped using the tree rings but ignored the fact that the divergence undermined the validity of using tree rings as an accurate proxy of past temperatures in the first place. Tree rings maybe our best proxy but that doesn’t make it acceptable any more then I would bet my stock portfolio on woman’s skirt lengths.
Neither can the Medieval Warming Period or the Little Ice age be trusted. No one knows if they were worldwide. They certainly occurred in some places but that’s not good enough to project global temperatures.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that we don’t know. It is a lot better then pretending that we do know something that we don’t really know.
This looks like the 18 month review they announced in Dec but was rejected later by the Prime Mentalist (old Gordon Flat Earther Broon). So either Gordon has changed his mind or with an election looming and probable change of govt the Met Office Sir Humphry Appleby’s are preparing for the new masters.
Please see http://boballab.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/now-this-is-interesting-a-different-larger-dataset-at-ncdc/ (e.g. DATSAV2 is the official climatological database for surface observations).
This link was originally posted at the Chiefio site (link on right bar). Apparently, about 13,000 stations worldwide are available with a “beginning” date of January 1, 1930, but this is not truly “raw” data. It has already gone through some quality assurance steps. See http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/documentlibrary/tddoc/td9950.pdf for details.
Apparently, Boballab has found the source for NCDC’s data (and probably everybody else’s also) . The Met Office needs to do nothing. The data collection work is already done. What the Met Office is going to do and what climate scientists have been doing for 20 years is cherry-picking data from DATSAV2. Why not try to use ALL of the data from DATSAV2? I would be willing to buy a copy to share with Anthony, if the purchase agreement allows, so that he can post it somewhere and make it publicly accessible. Doing this would be as monumental as finally making the Dead Sea Scrolls publicly accessible, after a generation of scientists carefully prevented anyone but a select few to do scholarship on them.