WUWT first reported on this issue on 11/11/2009 and again on 12/22/2009,with
Pachauri claims Indian scientific position “arrogant”

The head of the IPCC Dr. Rajenda Pachauri had said: India was ‘arrogant’ to deny global warming link to melting glaciers.From the Guardian article:
Two years ago, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the UN agency which evaluates the risk from global warming, warned the glaciers were receding faster than in any other part of the world and could “disappear altogether by 2035 if not sooner”.
Today Ramesh denied any such risk existed: “There is no conclusive scientific evidence to link global warming with what is happening in the Himalayan glaciers.” The minister added although some glaciers are receding they were doing so at a rate that was not “historically alarming”.
However, Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the IPCC, told the Guardian: “We have a very clear idea of what is happening. I don’t know why the minister is supporting this unsubstantiated research. It is an extremely arrogant statement.”
We also reported on the finding of Texas state climatologist John Nielsen-Gammon
Texas State Climatologist: “IPCC AR4 was flat out wrong” – relied on flawed WWF report
Now who looks arrogant?

It’s now taken almost a month for the Times to catch up to this issue, and now it has made MSM news. Highlights in excerpts below are mine.
The Times, January 17, 2010
World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown
Jonathan Leake and Chris Hastings
A WARNING that climate change will melt most of the Himalayan glaciers by 2035 is likely to be retracted after a series of scientific blunders by the United Nations body that issued it.
Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world’s glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035.
In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC’s 2007 report.
It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi.
Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was “speculation” and was not supported by any formal research. If confirmed it would be one of the most serious failures yet seen in climate research. The IPCC was set up precisely to ensure that world leaders had the best possible scientific advice on climate change.
Professor Murari Lal, who oversaw the chapter on glaciers in the IPCC report, said he would recommend that the claim about glaciers be dropped: “If Hasnain says officially that he never asserted this, or that it is a wrong presumption, than I will recommend that the assertion about Himalayan glaciers be removed from future IPCC assessments.”
The IPCC’s reliance on Hasnain’s 1999 interview has been highlighted by Fred Pearce, the journalist who carried out the original interview for the New Scientist. Pearce said he rang Hasnain in India in 1999 after spotting his claims in an Indian magazine. Pearce said: “Hasnain told me then that he was bringing a report containing those numbers to Britain. The report had not been peer reviewed or formally published in a scientific journal and it had no formal status so I reported his work on that basis. Since then I have obtained a copy and it does not say what Hasnain said. In other words it does not mention 2035 as a date by which any Himalayan glaciers will melt. However, he did make clear that his comments related only to part of the Himalayan glaciers. not the whole massif.”
The New Scientist report was apparently forgotten until 2005 when WWF cited it in a report called An Overview of Glaciers, Glacier Retreat, and Subsequent Impacts in Nepal, India and China. The report credited Hasnain’s 1999 interview with the New Scientist. But it was a campaigning report rather than an academic paper so it was not subjected to any formal scientific review. Despite this it rapidly became a key source for the IPCC when Lal and his colleagues came to write the section on the Himalayas.
When finally published, the IPCC report did give its source as the WWF study but went further, suggesting the likelihood of the glaciers melting was “very high”. The IPCC defines this as having a probability of greater than 90%. The report read: “Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate.”
However, glaciologists find such figures inherently ludicrous, pointing out that most Himalayan glaciers are hundreds of feet thick and could not melt fast enough to vanish by 2035 unless there was a huge global temperature rise. The maximum rate of decline in thickness seen in glaciers at the moment is 2-3 feet a year and most are far lower.
…
Rajendra Pachauri, the IPCC chairman, has previously dismissed criticism of the Himalayas claim as “voodoo science”. Last week the IPCC refused to comment so it has yet to explain how someone who admits to little expertise on glaciers was overseeing such a report. Perhaps its one consolation is that the blunder was spotted by climate scientists who quickly made it public.
…
Pearce said the IPCC’s reliance on the WWF was “immensely lazy” and the organisation need to explain itself or back up its prediction with another scientific source. Hasnain could not be reached for comment.
The revelation is the latest crack to appear in the scientific consensus over climate change. It follows the climate-gate scandal, where British scientists apparently tried to prevent other researchers from accessing key date. Last week another row broke out when the Met Office criticised suggestions that sea levels were likely to rise 1.9m by 2100, suggesting much lower increases were likely.
Read the full article here: World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown
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crosspatch (22:34:45) :
“Patrick Davis:
Apparently the AVO is no more, nobody makes the mechanical parts anymore.
The US version was probably the military TS-352.”
There were a lot of AVO versions, some specifically for the military and some for heavy current engineers.
AVO meters went out of production last year I recall. RS still have a stock I see. At nearly £900, maybe it’s understandable they still have stock to clear. You can pick them up secondhand for £5 to £40. Most of them are still accurate. There are a few specialist repairers about. I’ve got an AVO, but I mainly use a DMM. AVOs are nice things with a feel of solid quality about them. Back in the day, the only way you could get the accuracy they offered was by making a carefully individually finished unit with a large scale. It’s surprising they carried on in production for so long.
It was as much as I could do to resist joining in the OT discussions about Nixie tubes a few days back.
Comments from around the web re: Pachauri
>>No one comes out of this untarnished and what
>>does this do for the New Scientist’s reputation? It
>>is about as trustworthy now as those newspapers
>>at the supermarket check out which proclaim “Elvis
>>abducted by Aliens”.
New Scientist has not had a reputation worth losing for the last 20 years, ever since it became the printing press of Greenpeace. It is one step above the Beano.
.
For reports on endangered wildlife (including meerkats) go to World Wildlife Fund ; for reports on big fat wrestlers and their buxom managers go to World Wrestling Federation.
Simples!
PS – re BBC reports.
I complained about their mickey mouse reporting, by their gullible reporter in india, months ago.
Did not get anywhere
Australian Climage Minister Penny Wong STILL (report this morning) sez:
”This is a report that has been peer reviewed extensively; very few errors have been found in it and none that challenge the central findings,”
Is Ms. Wong REALLY that clueless ?? . . .
No, obviously she’s just wong.
Slight increases in glaciers is not indicative of faulty science, nor does it mean things are getting better:
http://news.discovery.com/earth/himalayas-glaciers-shrink.html
Increased water vapour from other areas brings moisture to this region, which freezes and adds to the glacier. In other words, a rapidly increasing glacier also points to global climate change.
Like it or not, climate science is complicated, which means the whole field isn’t predicated on a couple of temperature readings. Picking apart one small area isn’t enough to refute the entire body of evidence. The reporting here is far more shoddy than that which the IPCC is being accused.
More on the Does 2035 really mean 2350? ref Chris Wright (03:29:45) :
According to Prof Graham Cogley (Trent University, Ontario), a short article on the future of glaciers by a Russian scientist (Kotlyakov, V.M., 1996, The future of glaciers under the expected climate warming, 61-66, in Kotlyakov, V.M., ed., 1996, Variations of Snow and Ice in the Past and at Present on a Global and Regional Scale, Technical Documents in Hydrology, 1. UNESCO, Paris (IHP-IV Project H-4.1). 78p estimates 2350 as the year for disappearance of glaciers, but the IPCC authors misread 2350 as 2035 in the Official IPCC documents, WGII 2007 p. 493!
http://aconservativeedge.com/2009/12/02/typo-basis-for-global-warming-glacial-melting-evidence/
“”” Looking ahead, the prospects seem to be getting worse rather than better, according to Hasnain. “Scientists have projected a 43 percent decrease in the glacial area on an average by 2070 and a 75 percent decrease in the glacial area by the end of the 21st century at the current rate of global warming,” says Hasnain. “””
Well “at the current rate of glohbal warming”, the whole of India is likely to be iced over by 2070.
So when did this glaciologist make such a statement, and what was the current rate of global warming at that time ? What kind of scientific instruction teaches that something that is happening now will continue unabated forever ?
At the rate of global warming observed in 1998, the whole planet will liquify before too long.
******
Steve K (09:55:22) :
Jim writes:
“Here’s where the quote came from … http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html”
For example, Steve McIntyre, does not have any formal training in climate science, so I wonder if you include him as part of your statement. Therefore, what you write here does not meet my definition of “A number of scientists who backed the CO2 based AGW theory are now suffering from buyer’s remorse.”
In short, I’m not finding the facts for what you assert in the website you pointed me towards.
***********************
Apparently you can’t understand simple English. “Here’s where the quote came from.” means that web site was written by James A. Peden, Editor.
As far as McIntyre is concerned, James Hansen isn’t a climatologist, he has degrees in Astronomy and Physics. Michael Mann has a degree in Geology. McIntyre understands statistics better than either one of them as has been demonstrated so your appeal to authority is meaningless.
From Pachauri’s wikipedia page
“In November 2009, Dr Pachauri was rated fifth in the list of “Top 100 Global thinkers” by Foreign Policy magazine, for “ending the debate over whether climate change matters.”
MichaelC58 (17:07:43
“Never mind ‘arrogance’ or “I told you so’. Rajendra Pachauri must be forced to resign and the IPCC revamped, if not dissolved.”
Speaking of the need for the IPCC to be revamped … while I was rummaging around in the Climategate files, I discovered a remarkably revealing document: Briffa’s Aug. 1/96 “responses” on behalf of the AR4 WG1 Chapter 6 “chapter team” to the reviews of the Second Order Draft.
Did some quantitative and qualitative analysis that yielded results (from where I’m sitting, at least) which strongly suggest that their much vaunted “peer review” process leaves much to be desired. It certainly calls into question how statements get included in their reports.
I only followed the trail of comments on one particular paragraph (and as an aside I actually found a “hockey stick” that actually appears to have “disappeared” from some text in a First Order Draft – *after* the comments had been compiled and “responded” to!) but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar pattern on others.
http://hro001.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/the-climate-change-game-monopoly-the-ipcc-version/
I’ll post this again because no one seems to have noticed it – strangely the BBC did report this back in early December:
Andrew P (00:17:06) :
Just in case this hasn’t been pointed out, it may have taken a month for the Times and other mainstream media to pick it up, but the BBC covered this back in early December – first with:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8355837.stm
(headline: Himalayan glaciers’ ‘mixed picture’ )
and then on Dec 5th:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8387737.stm .
(headline: Himalayan glaciers melting deadline ‘a mistake’ )
That said both pages were buried in the expanse of their website, and (not surprisingly) neither pages were given any links from the front page or from their Science/Environment section. (It was the run up to Copenhagen and they wouldn’t want tio upset the warmists would they?).
World Wildlife Fund? This fund flies its representatives, Hollywood stars, and the “green” elitists around the globe in their private aircraft to experience the wonders of the world, while us commoners pay for their carbon footprint. What is good for them, is not good for us.
Similar to the Wildlife Conservancy in CA. Last February Senator Feinstein blocked the construction of a potential new solar power utility in southern CA.
The meaning of environmentalist has changed dramatically since the IPCC was created. When politicians, lawyers and rich elitists gather usually means one thing: how can we monetize or enrich ourselves at the expense of the human taxpayer.
“THE NEW CLIMATE CHANGE SCANDAL”
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/152422
Front page of the paper
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2010-01-18
Blah, blah, blah!
http://www.heliogenic.net/2010/01/18/blah-blah-blah/
Steve K (07:41:57) :
David Kitchen writes: “This is a very sloppy posting… and totally obfuscates the point. Glaciers over much of the Himalayas are melting at an unprecedented rate… the exact date doesn’t matter. ”
David, in the brief time I have visited this website, I have discovered that the the philosophy of science for many here is that, if you’re wrong about one thing in the science, then everything else must be wrong.
Steve, “One Thing in the science”?
How about the “Hockey Stick”?
Date Manipulation?
The Useless Trend Calulations?
The Ice melting at unprecedented rates just like the Glaciers?
The Sea levels Rising at unprecedented rates?
Temperatures dropping while CO2 rises?
The Unknown “Forcing” that makes CO2 so dangerous?
Just how many do you need?
Deadly earth, deadly humans!
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2010/01/deadly-earth-deadly-humans.html
Jim (10:59:04) writes:
“Apparently you can’t understand simple English. ‘Here’s where the quote came from.’”
I can understand simple English, so please drop the ad hominem attacks. You’ve provided a quote, but the source provides no evidence for the assertion it contains. I’d like to know the names of the scientists it claims have changed their minds. As for your comments regarding Mann, Hansen, and McIntyre: if an individual wants to be regarded as a scientist, I typically draw the line that those credentials requires performing scientific research that is recognized as a contribution to science by his or her peers.
Hi,
Please note that the name of the Australian Climate Change Minister is:
Ms Penny Wrong. Forget the Wong stuff. She is always Wrong!
Regards
StormBringer,
“Picking apart one small area isn’t enough to refute the entire body of evidence. The reporting here is far more shoddy than that which the IPCC is being accused.”
You seem to be missing the point. It is not about refuting bodies of evidence. It is about the simple fact that the worlds most eminent climate body, the gold standard authority for climate predictions, has cited as “compelling evidence,” based on supposedly “peer reviewed science”, something that not only was not peer reveiwed, but was not even a scientifc paper. It was apparently the result of an interview published in a popular science mag. In other words, the data was not what it was claimed to be.
This is a very serious matter. Shoddy is not a word I would use. Breathtakingly incompetent at best, fraudulent at worst.
Here’s my understanding of the matter, from informally (without noting the exact wording or the links) checking this matter out, and from my recollection. The guy who exposed this error, a fellow named Pearce, initially suspected the mistake was the result of a typo from 2350 in a Russian report. But a few weeks later he discovered, from tracking down the reference in the IPCC report to its ultimate source, that it had come, via New Scientist and the WWF, from an Indian scientist’s speculation, or horseback diagnosis. So his first guess, that it was due to a typo, has been superseded.
PS: It was just a coincidence, IOW.
A C Osborn (11:47:33) writes:
How about the “Hockey Stick”?
Date Manipulation?
The Useless Trend Calulations?
The Ice melting at unprecedented rates just like the Glaciers?
The Sea levels Rising at unprecedented rates?
Temperatures dropping while CO2 rises?
The Unknown “Forcing” that makes CO2 so dangerous?
Just how many do you need?
I need all of them. For each of these, please provide me with the following:
1. A reference to the section of the IPCC report that is addresses the point in question above;
2. The published, peer-reviewed scientific literature that the IPCC cites as the reference to the point in question (its right there in the IPCC), and
3. The published, peer-reviewed scientific literature that proves the IPCC reference wrong.
I’ve been looking for this information since 4AR was published more than two years ago.
Steve K,
Holding your fingers together and humming the mantra “peer review” won’t get you very far around here.