The Unbearable Complexity of Climate

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Figure 1. The Experimental Setup

I keep reading statements in various places about how it is indisputable “simple physics” that if we increase the amount of atmospheric CO2, it will inevitably warm the planet. Here’s a typical example:

In the hyperbolic language that has infested the debate, researchers have been accused of everything from ditching the scientific method to participating in a vast conspiracy. But the basic concepts of the greenhouse effect is a matter of simple physics and chemistry, and have been part of the scientific dialog for roughly a century.

Here’s another:

The important thing is that we know how greenhouse gases affect climate. It has even been predicted hundred years ago by Arrhenius. It is simple physics.

Unfortunately, while the physics is simple, the climate is far from simple. It is one of the more complex systems that we have ever studied. The climate is a tera-watt scale planetary sized heat engine. It is driven by both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial forcings, a number of which are unknown, and many of which are poorly understood and/or difficult to measure. It is inherently chaotic and turbulent, two conditions for which we have few mathematical tools.

The climate is composed of six major subsystems — atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, lithosphere, biosphere, and electrosphere. All of these subsystems are imperfectly understood. Each of these subsystems has its own known and unknown internal and external forcings, feedbacks, resonances, and cyclical variations. In addition, each subsystem affects all of the other subsystems through a variety of known and unknown forcings and feedbacks.

Then there is the problem of scale. Climate has crucially important processes at physical scales from the molecular to the planetary and at temporal scales from milliseconds to millennia.

As a result of this almost unimaginable complexity, simple physics is simply inadequate to predict the effect of a change in one of the hundreds and hundreds of things that affect the climate. I will give two examples of why “simple physics” doesn’t work with the climate — a river, and a block of steel. I’ll start with a thought experiment with the block of steel.

Suppose that I want to find out about how temperature affects solids. I take a 75 kg block of steel, and I put the bottom end of it in a bucket of hot water. I duct tape a thermometer to the top end in the best experimental fashion, and I start recording how the temperature changes with time. At first, nothing happens. So I wait. And soon, the temperature of the other end of the block of steel starts rising. Hey, simple physics, right?

To verify my results, I try the experiment with a block of copper. I get the same result, the end of the block that’s not in the hot water soon begins to warm up. I try it with a block of glass, same thing. My tentative conclusion is that simple physics says that if you heat one end of a solid, the other end will eventually heat up as well.

So I look around for a final test. Not seeing anything obvious, I have a flash of insight. I weigh about 75 kg. So I sit with my feet in the bucket of hot water, put the thermometer in my mouth, and wait for my head to heat up. This experimental setup is shown in Figure 1 above.

After all, simple physics is my guideline, I know what’s going to happen, I just have to wait.

And wait … and wait …

As our thought experiment shows, simple physics may simply not work when applied to a complex system. The problem is that there are feedback mechanisms that negate the effect of the hot water on my cold toes. My body has a preferential temperature which is not set by the external forcings.

For a more nuanced view of what is happening, let’s consider the second example, a river. Again, a thought experiment.

I take a sheet of plywood, and I cover it with some earth. I tilt it up so it slopes from one edge to the other. For our thought experiment, we’ll imagine that this is a hill that goes down to the ocean.

I place a steel ball at the top edge of the earth-covered plywood, and I watch what happens. It rolls, as simple physics predicts, straight down to the lower edge. I try it with a wooden ball, and get the same result. I figure maybe it’s because of the shape of the object.

So I make a small wooden sled, and put it on the plywood. Again, it slides straight down to the ocean. I try it with a miniature steel shed, same result. It goes directly downhill to the ocean as well. Simple physics, understood by Isaac Newton.

As a final test, I take a hose and I start running some water down from the top edge of my hill to make a model river. To my surprise, although the model river starts straight down the hill, it soon starts to wander. Before long, it has formed a meandering stream, which changes its course with time. Sections of the river form long loops, the channel changes, loops are cut off, new channels form, and after while we get something like this:

Figure 2. Meanders, oxbow bends, and oxbow lakes in a river system. Note the old channels where the river used to run.

The most amazing part is that the process never stops. No matter how long we run the river experiment, the channel continues to change. What’s going on here?

Well, the first thing that we can conclude is that, just as in our experiment with the steel block, simple physics simply doesn’t work in this situation. Simple physics says that things roll straight downhill, and clearly, that ain’t happening here … it is obvious we need better tools to analyze the flow of the river.

Are there mathematical tools that we can use to understand this system? Yes, but they are not simple. The breakthrough came in the 1990’s, with the discovery by Adrian Bejan of the Constructal Law. The Constructal Law applies to all flow systems which are far from equilibrium, like a river or the climate.

It turns out that these types of flow systems are not passive systems which can take up any configuration. Instead, they actively strive to maximize some aspect of the system. For the river, as for the climate, the system strives to maximize the sum of the energy moved and the energy lost through turbulence. See the discussion of these principles here, here, here, and here. There is also a website devoted to various applications of the Constructal Law here.

There are several conclusions that we can make from the application of the Constructal Law to flow systems:

1. Any flow system far from equilibrium is not free to take up any form as the climate models assume. Instead, it has a preferential state which it works actively to approach.

2. This preferential state, however, is never achieved. Instead, the system constantly overshoots and undershoots that state, and does not settle down to one final form. The system never stops modifying its internal aspects to move towards the preferential state.

3. The results of changes in such a flow system are often counterintuitive. For example, suppose we want to shorten the river. Simple physics says it should be easy. So we cut through an oxbow bend, and it makes the river shorter … but only for a little while. Soon the river readjusts, and some other part of the river becomes longer. The length of the river is actively maintained by the system. Contrary to our simplistic assumptions, the length of the river is not changed by our actions.

So that’s the problem with “simple physics” and the climate. For example, simple physics predicts a simple linear relationship between the climate forcings and the temperature. People seriously believe that a change of X in the forcings will lead inevitably to a chance of A * X in the temperature. This is called the “climate sensitivity”, and is a fundamental assumption in the climate models. The IPCC says that if CO2 doubles, we will get a rise of around 3C in the global temperature. However, there is absolutely no evidence to support that claim, only computer models. But the models assume this relationship, so they cannot be used to establish the relationship.

However, as rivers clearly show, there is no such simple relationship in a flow system far from equilibrium. We can’t cut through an oxbow to shorten the river, it just lengthens elsewhere to maintain the same total length. Instead of being affected by a change in the forcings, the system sets its own preferential operating conditions (e.g. length, temperature, etc.) based on the natural constraints and flow possibilities and other parameters of the system.

Final conclusion? Because climate is a flow system far from equilibrium, it is ruled by the Constructal Law. As a result, there is no physics-based reason to assume that increasing CO2 will make a large difference to the global temperature, and the Constructal Law gives us reason to think that it may make no difference at all. In any case, regardless of Arrhenius, the “simple physics” relationship between CO2 and global temperature is something that we cannot simply assume to be true.


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622 Comments
David Ball
December 28, 2009 7:26 pm

Judging by the anti-aircraft fire (albeit very weak and emotional A.A. fire), I would have to surmise that Mr. Eschenbach is right over the target.

David Ball
December 28, 2009 7:34 pm

Phil is intentionally leaving out many factors involved in the analogy. Soil density variations, incline variations, soil composition, water viscosity, are to name a few factors that make W.E.’s analogy spot on. It seems that Phil thinks we have dominion over all things natural. I am afraid that reality is not that simple. The hubris does not help your arguments. We have a great deal to learn about the world around us. Full stop.

December 28, 2009 7:44 pm

Willis Eschenbach (11:26:02) :
Finally, I disagree that CO2 causes 25% of the GHG warming. Clouds cover around 70% of the earth’s surface, and they are basically black bodies in the IR spectrum. This means that where clouds are, they absorb about 100% of outgoing long wave radiation. Since water vapor in the non-cloudy areas absorb a bunch more radiation … doesn’t leave a whole lot for CO2.

And of course the tops of those clouds radiate black body radiation (IR) upwards into the drier air where the CO2 is waiting to absorb it!

Bill H
December 28, 2009 8:18 pm

I see that the radical beleiver is unprepared to accept anything short of total submission…
[quote]ThinkingBeing (10:02:11) :
The real bottom line? Your statement that “…there is no physics-based reason to assume that increasing CO2 will make any difference to the global temperature, and the Constructal Law gives us reason to think that it may make no difference at all.” is a flat out lie. The physics based reason is very simple to understand and would require an act of God to alter, and deniers only offer magic as their main argument that it is wrong.
[/quote]
After reading your post through and thinking through the mess I have come to the conclusion you are unwilling to explore other potentials or so fully vested that it might not be worth the time to respond.
Physics assumes that there are specific parameters and specific reactions to other chemicals/substances. Each reaction is known and can therefore be factored in mathematical terms. (perfect scientific world)
As I understand this, CO2 is the basis for all global warming as put forth by the believers. (man caused to boot)
The problem comes when the effect of multiple systems, chemicals, substances, heat, cooling, radiation, concentrations, and oscillations change how those original two chemicals react. the majority of these are chaotic by nature and are poorly understood and poorly defined. Therefore any program used to generate climate models will be as accurate as the weakest link of data. Garbage In = Garbage Out… Current Climate Models are garbage. In reviewing several of these they can not predict greater than a day out with any factor of certainty let alone 1 or 100 years…
As for CO2 there is not any certainty that an increase of 400ppm would generate a 3 Deg C rise in temp. This is not explained in physics. Simply put, in a complex system the chaotic factors can enhance or reduce the reaction. Without understanding the reaction = reaction +or- buffers..
THERE IS NO CERTAINTY!
You call Willis a liar yet you fail to understand the basics of flow dynamics.
CO2 maximum change potential is 1.6 w/m2
Cloud/Water vapor change potential is 30.0 w/m2
You all keep looking at a minor player and ignore the gorilla in the room.. a simple cloud cover increase of 3% would affect the earth by 3 w/m2.. twice that of CO2 at 800ppm.

Bernd Felsche
December 28, 2009 8:33 pm

Thanks Willis,
Thought-provoking and entertaining article. It highlights thatwe should not over-simplify to explain science. SImplifications may be mistaken for science.
The tendency for systems to dissipate energy as soon as possible is part of the entropic school of thought with which I’ve been afflicted.
In the example of cutting a stream meander, the short-cut leaves the stream with more energy further downstream; while the upstream entropy gradient increases. If all were known of the conditions, then one could predict how meanders would change, both downstream and upstream. But we can never know all; and in many cases not nearly enough to be sufficiently predictive. The only thing we can predict is that the flow will change.
The interesting queston that it brings to mind is how far downstream (and UPstream) one has to be before no change will be noticed. i.e. what is the nett influence.
That is, of course, assuming the necessarily ridiculous that all other things remain equal!

December 28, 2009 8:34 pm

Willis Eschenbach (12:16:44) :
Phil. (07:21:49)
“My friend’s computer model was used to design all the wings of Boeing aircraft since the 767 in the 70’s, which is as relevant as Willis’s analogies! Water flowing downhill tries to get there as fast as possible which would mean following a brachistochrone and this is supposed to tell us something about the response of the climate to CO2? (By the way Willis a response of 3º to a doubling of [CO2] is not a “simple linear relationship”, it’s logarithmic).”
Three degrees per doubling, six degrees per two doublings, nine degrees for three doublings … it is linear w.r.t. doubling. As you point out, it is logarithmic w.r.t. the underlying concentration. I guess I missed the part that makes this objection meaningful.

Your reference to a “simple linear relationship” which was not correct, the response to forcing isn’t linear, your smart ass comments notwithstanding.
Next, if water flowing downhill “tries to get there as fast as possible”, it would flow straight downhill like a marble rolling down a tilted floor.
No it wouldn’t, it would follow a brachistochrone (an inverted cycloid) as shown by the Bernoullis, Newton, Liebniz and l’Hôpital before 1700 (anticipated by Galileo about 50 years previously). That’s why it meanders, it’s quicker!
Finally, the supercomputer used to model the airplane wing is modeling a well-defined and understood static situation (the wing shape is essentially fixed) in a very small space of a few hundred cubic metres.
Actually Tony did it on a laptop and the wing shape wasn’t constant it was varied, that’s how he optimized the wing profile.
If you think this means that computers can model the poorly understood planetary scale climate system, with all of its known and unknown forcings, subsystems, resonances, and sub-grid phenomena like thunderstorms, you don’t understand computers.
As pointed out it’s as relevant as your nonsense analogy, which apparently you didn’t understand.
This is not unusual. People think that computers are able to do many things that they can’t do. As someone who has programmed computers for more than forty years, I can assure you that a model is no better than the understanding of its programmer. We understand the flow of air over a wing pretty well, so we can model it (although even the best model results are still sometimes contradicted by test flights … which is why we still do them, we don’t just say “the computer says it’s wonderful, bring on the passengers” …)
Well in Tony’s case he was a bit more than a programmer he was also a Fellow of The Royal Aeronautical Society, Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics etc. (Both he and I have been programming computers for longer than you apparently so you needn’t worry about our inexperience.)

Eric
December 28, 2009 8:44 pm

>>” Phil. (07:21:49) :
[Reply: You are welcome to submit your own article explaining how well computer climate models work. ~dbstealey, mod.]
My friend’s computer model was used to design all the wings of Boeing aircraft since the 767 in the 70’s, which is as relevant as Willis’s analogies! Water flowing downhill tries to get there as fast as possible which would mean following a brachistochrone and this is supposed to tell us something about the response of the climate to CO2? (By the way Willis a response of 3º to a doubling of [CO2] is not a “simple linear relationship”, it’s logarithmic).”

Phil, if your friend programs Boeing’s computer models then he can tell you about the absurdity of comparing the complexity of air moving across a single aircraft wing to the planetary climate system.
The point of CAD and stochastic engineering models is exactly the opposite of what you suggest — it’s that even modeling so seemingly simple and commonplace a phenomenon as airflow across a wing takes gargantuan amounts of ever-expanding computing power, matched only by the ever-expanding computer code that drives it.
If modeling the wings of Boeing aircraft were as simple as you’d have us believe, Boeing wouldn’t be constantly upgrading its computing infrastructure as processing technology progresses. And even with the biggest, superest-duperest supercomputers on the planet, Boeing still goes through multiple physical prototypes before finding one that’ll work well in the real world.
The incredibly arduous and complicated effort of modeling Boeing wings demonstrates the silliness of believing that the climatic conditions of the entire planet from surface to atmosphere can be accurately captured by presently extant computer codes and CPUs.
And the claim that it can is one of the surest signs to me that much climate modeling has turned away from science and towards becoming a surrogate for the Oracle at Delphi.

Roger Knights
December 28, 2009 8:50 pm

DABbio (18:50:11) :
2. I wish that we could get rid of the term “forcings.” It prejudges the case. Why not revert to the term used in the rest of science: factors?
DABbio (18:53:53) :
Or “variables” would be better.

About six (?) months ago someone here asked why the standard scientific term “drivers” had been abandoned in favor of “forcings”?
I think this choice of more emphatic diction is a “fingerprint” of a “snow job.”

sHx
December 28, 2009 9:08 pm

ThinkingBeing (13:50:32) : But I’m not going to argue the validity of the models on these pages with anyone here. This is the land of zealots who have already made up their minds, then, with their minds closed, have chosen to very heroically label themselves as “skeptics.” So there’s no way to educate them, and no point in trying.
I am a layman and I am fairly new to the AGW debate. For more than ten years I suffered cognitive dissonance because my loyalty to Green politics conflicted with what I learned about science as a student in History and Philosophy of Science lectures at the University of NSW (e.g, the supremacy of geocentric model of the universe for nearly two thousand years). Not only did I resist expressing an opinion on climate change, but I also switched the TV channels or the pages of the newspaper each time a story about AGW appeared. Nevertheless, I was exposed to the pro-AGW views in the mainstream media 10 to 1, compared to the skeptical views.
When I finally decided to dip my toe into the debate approximately six months ago to try to learn more about the issue, what struck me first and foremost was the cultish certainty and devotion to the cause of the pro-AGW crowd. The AGW movement smacked everything that one would expect from a frantic, dogmatic and apocalyptic frantic religious crusade. By contrast, the skeptical websites offered a generous diversity of opinion ranging from loonies who claim a left-wing conspiracy to those who accept all the tenets of the AGW movement except the one urging immediate radical transformation of the world economy. The pro-AGW theory crowd belittled, ridiculed, patronised, sullied the names of, etc, anyone who dared to question their arguments. I found the skeptics much more welcoming, calm, confident and reasonable. For example, it is worthy of note that WUWT and Climate Audit provides permanent links on their webpages to the leading pro-AGW blog, Real Climate, despite the fact that the RC hasn’t reciprocated the nicety.
Simply speaking, I don’t need anybody to tell me who the real zealots are in this debate. I know it already. The real zealots in this debate are those who would seek to insulate their readers and followers from the views contrary to their belief.

anna v
December 28, 2009 9:14 pm

a jones (12:53:45) :
As to use of analogue computing about which I know something it would do a much better job than digital techniques because of its speed, with a suitable set up you could compare in a year not millions of runs but billions and tens of billions of them.
Moreover you would have a much better idea of the sensitivity of the model to slight changes than digital machines can offer. And technically there would be no problem today of building such a machine.
But I am far from sure in the end it would get you anywhere. There is so much we do not know about the climate system and its complexities that I for one cannot see how it can be modelled at the moment.
We simply do not understand enough about the great natural forces that drive the climate. Perhaps we never will.

Human exploration never gives up :). Have a walk through https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/aatsonis/www/
where you will find the link to the paper that was discussed here in wattsup http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/16/synchronized-chaos-and-climate-change/ a while ago. They are really setting up an analogue on a digital computer, and they are having some success as their paper shows.
I agree that it is extremely ambitious to be aiming at making an analogue of the differential equations entering the climate, but do not forget that they have already done the logical diagrams when they made the GCModels. I am sure, since the weather predictions do have some success, that if those differential equations were entered in an analogue where the problem of non linearity becomes moot the results would be better than in the existing GCMs.

Bill Parsons
December 28, 2009 9:35 pm

Thanks for the thought-provoking article, Willis.
I walk a few times a week near a river that flows along former volcanic beds. It’s easy to imagine the earlier volcanism, and the potential sources of it, in the front range of the Rocky Mountains about 10 miles off to the west. The evidence of this action is in the exposed areas of ancient riverbed where the water has left dark lava fins exposed, slick with algae. They are narrow, and we can jump from fin to fin in order to cross the river.
Ask most people if this popular river walk and the parallel bike-path are straight or meandering and they’ll say straight. But that’s because they only see it from close-up and too fast to look. A top-down, Google-World-view shows the tree-lined course of the river, whose meanders increase as it works its way further out from the foothills. Clear Creek wasn’t always in its present bed.
The footpaths wind along the creek’s side, sometimes diverging and leading away. At some distance from the creek, and vertically above it some 15 or 20 feet, we come on our walks to long stretches of cobblestones. In one area, the piles of cobbles are thick. They are multi-form, but mostly ovate and perfectly round, pale brown in color, with reddish hues of granite and schist, mostly fist-sized and smaller.
How many years does it take for flowing water to scour and smash a jagged piece of granite into roundness? How many more years, after this artery was occluded and it’s path shifted to the north, til it cut its present ox-bow course several feet below the high and dry plain where we are standing?

anna v
December 28, 2009 9:37 pm

MrAce (12:47:32) :
M (12:05:52) :
“Q: Eighty percent of the heat radiated back from the surface is absorbed in the first 30 feet by water vapor…”
The greenhouse effect is determined by the temperature difference of the earth and the gas emitting the infrared radiation to outer space. The first 30 feet of the earth has about the same temperature as the earth, so it radiates at the same intensity.

Oh, dear. This must be wrong.
All this radiation flim flam. The only connection between radiation and temperature comes from the formula Flux=constant*T^4
1) the earth is not a black body, and at a temperature T will radiate as grayconstant1*T^4 ( integrated and averaged over the whole globe of course, more luck)
2)The air is not a black body and will radiate as grayconstant2*T^4 from a thickness of 30 meters. You will have better luck to get one average gray constant for the air layer than for the ground.
The radiation spectra will be different too.
In any case, in no way the radiation of the air above the ground and the ground can be the same even if the temperature is the same.

Geoff Sherrington
December 28, 2009 9:38 pm

Sheridan (06:34:58) :
Measurement of IR spectrum – early days
So far as I can recall from classes in the 1960s, IR intensity was measured by a spherical glass bolometer whose internal pressure increased with extra IR. As such, it would have no spectral response apaty from the naturals pectrum less that absorbed by the glass (which even then might have adsed to the pressure). But that is from memory.

Bill Parsons
December 28, 2009 9:41 pm

Hmm. A bit more philosophical than usual. Must be the unbearable lightness of those beans.

Keith Minto
December 28, 2009 9:49 pm

Surely a river would follow the path of least resistance with water energy and river shape supplied by the degree of slope. There is silt deposition on the the inner curves that forces a broadening of the loop structure with time. The length of the river therefore increases with time, it is not trying to be ‘efficient’, block its path and a dam will form, overflow, and the same least resistance principle continues. This continues until sea level is reached.
Given time a Grand Canyon can result.
I think that Willis was showing with his examples that the atmosphere is not a pure physical heat transfer system but a complex biophysical system that, like humans, shows homoeostasis within boundaries that at the moment are uncertain.
Now, where have I heard of that concept before ?

par5
December 28, 2009 10:02 pm

RE: RJ (10:20:33) :
Par5: “Arrhenius also concluded that the sun was made of coal, and that the earth was less than ten thousand years old.”
Can Par5 or anyone else provide a reference for this? Does anyone here doubt or dispute the claim?
In the 1800’s, the ‘consensus’ was that the sun was made of coal- and this was proved by spectronomy. Because spectronomy was an infant science (like climatology), there were still a few bugs to work out. Scientists held that because the sun and coal burn the same color, they must be the same material. So if the sun is made of coal, then the earth could not be more than 10,000 yrs old- otherwise the sun would be too large and the earth would burn up. I’m pretty sure it was Rutherford (1904/1907?) who first posited that the sun was driven by nuclear decay. This is a perfect example of why ‘concensus’ should not be used in science. Science does not vote for truth. Arrhenius did not have the technology we have today, so he could not have known the radiative effects of CO2 with any certainty.

par5
December 28, 2009 10:15 pm

Willis- Great job on another great post. 445 comments and rising. My favorite bird is the silly ‘drinking bird’ (the one with the tophat). Get a small glass of water, then push his beak into it. Almost magically, the bird starts bobbing upright and then down again- as if he is really drinking the water. I think you can still buy them through the Edmunds catalog. Anyway, how’s Foghorn doing?

December 28, 2009 10:16 pm

Or consider the simple statement in steady state economics.
“Raising taxes will increase revenue”.
Maybe. Depends where on the Laffer Curve you are. The higher the tax rate the harder humans will work to avoid them. Something about maximizing income.
At low tax rates increasing production gets you the biggest gain. At high taxes the effort is better spent in reducing the tax burden.

MikeF
December 28, 2009 10:33 pm

Phil said:

“My friend’s computer model was used to design all the wings of Boeing aircraft since the 767 in the 70’s, which is as relevant as …
Actually Tony did it on a laptop and the wing shape wasn’t constant it was varied, that’s how he optimized the wing profile.
….
Well in Tony’s case he was a bit more than a programmer he was also a Fellow of The Royal Aeronautical Society, Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics etc. (Both he and I have been programming computers for longer than you apparently so you needn’t worry about our inexperience.)

Wow, your friend Tony must be really good with computers if he had laptop in 70s…
And you know what? My dad can beat up your dad any time.

December 28, 2009 10:39 pm

Allan M (12:05:52) :
From Reid Bryson:
Q: Could you rank the things that have the most significant impact and where would you put carbon dioxide on the list?
A: Well let me give you one fact first. In the first 30 feet of the atmosphere, on the average, outward radiation from the Earth, which is what CO2 is supposed to affect, how much [of the reflected energy] is absorbed by water vapor? In the first 30 feet, 80 percent, okay?</em?
Complete nonsense, not even close (never mind the bizarre comment in brackets [of the reflected energy])

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