EPA’ s Lisa Jackson panders to Copenhagen on opening day. Planned for months of course, with public comment ignored. It is now the people -vs- the EPA, coming to a courtroom near you.
From the EPA press release:
EPA: Greenhouse Gases Threaten Public Health and the Environment
Science overwhelmingly shows greenhouse gas concentrations at unprecedented levels due to human activity
WASHINGTON – After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. EPA also finds that GHG emissions from on-road vehicles contribute to that threat.
GHGs are the primary driver of climate change, which can lead to hotter, longer heat waves that threaten the health of the sick, poor or elderly; increases in ground-level ozone pollution linked to asthma and other respiratory illnesses; as well as other threats to the health and welfare of Americans.
“These long-overdue findings cement 2009’s place in history as the year when the United States Government began addressing the challenge of greenhouse-gas pollution and seizing the opportunity of clean-energy reform,” said EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson. “Business leaders, security experts, government officials, concerned citizens and the United States Supreme Court have called for enduring, pragmatic solutions to reduce the greenhouse gas pollution that is causing climate change. This continues our work towards clean energy reform that will cut GHGs and reduce the dependence on foreign oil that threatens our national security and our economy.”
EPA’s final findings respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision that GHGs fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants. The findings do not in and of themselves impose any emission reduction requirements but rather allow EPA to finalize the GHG standards proposed earlier this year for new light-duty vehicles as part of the joint rulemaking with the Department of Transportation.
On-road vehicles contribute more than 23 percent of total U.S. GHG emissions. EPA’s proposed GHG standards for light-duty vehicles, a subset of on-road vehicles, would reduce GHG emissions by nearly 950 million metric tons and conserve 1.8 billion barrels of oil over the lifetime of model year 2012-2016 vehicles.
EPA’s endangerment finding covers emissions of six key greenhouse gases – carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons and sulfur hexafluoride – that have been the subject of scrutiny and intense analysis for decades by scientists in the United States and around the world.
Scientific consensus shows that as a result of human activities, GHG concentrations in the atmosphere are at record high levels and data shows that the Earth has been warming over the past 100 years, with the steepest increase in warming in recent decades. The evidence of human-induced climate change goes beyond observed increases in average surface temperatures; it includes melting ice in the Arctic, melting glaciers around the world, increasing ocean temperatures, rising sea levels, acidification of the oceans due to excess carbon dioxide, changing precipitation patterns, and changing patterns of ecosystems and wildlife.
President Obama and Administrator Jackson have publicly stated that they support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress’ efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation. However, climate change is threatening public health and welfare, and it is critical that EPA fulfill its obligation to respond to the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that determined that greenhouse gases fit within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants.
EPA issued the proposed findings in April 2009 and held a 60-day public comment period. The agency received more than 380,000 comments, which were carefully reviewed and considered during the development of the final findings.
Information on EPA’s findings: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment.html
Hey Is Water Vapor A GHG that would fall within the EPA regulations?
Just wondering…
Obama has just done what he could not do in Congress or with the support of the American people. This cannot be allowed to stand.
Your once great country perilously circles the drain. It makes me sad, yet I can afford a condo in Florida now, OH the iron……..nee.
As bad as this is, maybe some good can come out it, because the EPA can be challenged in court. Let the litigation begin.
A day that will live in infamy, when an American government agency decided to declare a natural component of the atmosphere a pollutant it could regulate. We all remember the jokes about taxing the air you breath. Not so funny any more. And the irony: it’s based upon the greatest scientific hooliganism and boosterism we have ever witnessed. Orwell’s vision was too benign.
Bye Bye USA. We aren’t quite as insane up here in Canada … yet. But BC is working at it with dual priced electricity rates that punish people for heating their homes with clean hydro electicity.
Exhaling is now dangerous. This may end up being a good thing. It may well be the one step gone too far. The one that breaks the enviroweenies back. I don’t get it. I can’t see the American population, one that is founded on basic freedoms and rights, putting up with this crap.
One thing I don’t understand is how our southern neighbors allowed a bureaucracy to have this level of jurisdictional power. How can something like this not have to go through Congress?
How, pray tell, did EPA carefully review and consider 380,000 comments in seven months?
Hmm. 54,000 comments per month, about 2,500 comments per business day reviewed since then.
Sure you did, EPA. Sure.
Bruce:
Yes, we aren’t as insane up here.
Unfortunately, I would think if Canada doesn’t fall into step, the punitive measures will be close behind. Me thinks, that’s why Harper hasn’t outright called catastrophic AGW the sham that it is.
Inhofe and Markey (what a rat) at CNN
I pass methane in her general direction.
Does this mean increased taxes or penalties on natural sources of CO2 such as ocean heating, geothermal venting, volcanoes, etc. And, conversely how would the planet look if there was no CO2 in the atmosphere.
The reign of enviro-tyranny will start on a cold note, one of our weather stations is predicting more than a foot of snow across good portions of the northwest quarter of our state.
Many towns in my state will soon forget this ever happened when they get buried in snow starting tonight and then smothered in cold, could be the same in Nebraska, Iowa, and other states.
The Economist after receiving hundreds of posts criticizing its standpoint on “man-made” global warming last week reiterates its position again this week:
The inquiries into the “climategate” e-mails and files may find that some of the researchers fell short of the standards of their calling, or that some of the science in question does not stand up as well as its authors would wish. To think that all action on climate change should cease pending such inquiries, though, is foolish, cynical or both.
Skeptics are “foolish”, “cynical” or “both” and this is from a right wing rag that tried to put a positive spin and brave face on the entire banking crisis defending what are clearly corrupt and under-regulated free markets (Chicago school economics out of control) and that has long promoted innovative financial instruments like “Carbon Credits”.
http://www.economist.com/sciencetechnology/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15051965&source=most_commented
So “man-made” global warming is perhaps the most brilliant of scams – it appeals to and has garnered strong support from the financial world (which The Economist represents)…a new way for capitalists to get rich?
AGW is the perfect scam – governments get bigger, the rich get richer, the environmentalists get to feel good about saving the entire planet, meanwhile the average Joe will be left a lot poorer and many more poor will go hungry (but hey that is a good thing – too much meat/food is bad for global warming anyway).
I feel sick
And of course we have new psycho climate porn to boot:
I trust Inhofe for his assessment that ClimateGate con not be stopped.
However, it will be a massive struggle.
They are executing the First Global Revolution here.
There intentions are wicked than wicked and we must stop them via the courts and the next elections.
Think of it as a lesson “Maintaining Democracy under the threat of a Global takeover by an evil empire”. Maybe that will put the urgency of this matter in the right perspective.
Dec 7 – Anniversary of the bombing of Pearl Harbour and now the EPA declares carbon dioxide endangers human health. A date that will live in infamy. What a damning indictment of the world’s education systems when crap like this passes for unassailable science. How did the world’s most open and accountable political system put one over on its citizens like this? The only hope is that Climategate makes climate science more open and accountable and that honest research disproves this crazy jihad against CO2. Then let the class action lawsuits begin.
As mentioned above… why did they omit the main GHG that is water? After all I have seen reproducible evidence that most land-based species will die when subjected to a 100% water-based environment. This stuff is lethal.
Just how politicised is your bureaucracy? The timing of this anouncement suggest that it is exceptionally political.
I smell a revolution.
Really.
I do.
Tell you what. I promise not to laugh if all the USians promise not to lecture me ever again about how their constitution prevents hijacking by special interests.
JF
How clever to generally minimize CO2’s effect by surrounding it with GHGs that are toxic but only a minor part of GHG concerns. This whole AGW thing is the biggest anti American project ever dreamt of and here are her own people taken in by it – not even slowed down by the revelation of the largely cooked data of AGW political science.
Aside from doing something so that President Obama doesn’t show up at COP15 completely empty handed, there is one word that best describes this action by the EPA (”a day that will live in infamy” is fully justified):
Blackmail; i.e.:
Sending a message to the US Congress that they better pass a draconian ”cap & tax” package, or EPA will make make them regret not doing so; by incredibly expensive and pervasive enforcement of ruthless CHG regulations via the Clean Air Act.
mbabbitt’s comment was on the mark:
I fear George Orwell was an optomist. . . .
CEI will file suit to block EPA endangerment finding.
http://cei.org/news-release/2009/12/07/cei-will-file-suit-block-epa-endangerment-finding
America. The Home of the Brave, yes. The Land of the Free, not so much. Good luck in court.
She looks like a crook. Oh wait. She is a crook.
She’s bypassing Congress and the will of the people through departmental decrees. Sounds like a dictatorship in the making. I didn’t vote for that.
The first tax should be on all the hot CO2 being produced by the present US Administration and Congress. Can’t wait for the 2010 elections. Hope we can survive til then.
Mike:
You have a good point. My thoughts exactly. Maybe Harper in China ( Asia ) was more about selling our ” dirty oil ” , if the U.S doesn’t want it , I’m sure the Chinese and Indians will sure want it.
Brent in Calgary
The “big theft” already takes off as climate taxes already destroy our airline industries:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/new-uk-airline-tax-hits-australia-hard/story-e6frfq80-1225807562365
The EPA position is a great opportunity waiting to be taken. Preparations must be made to sue the EPA as soon as they take any action as then they will be forced to PROVE any factually scientific basis for negative anthropogenic GHGs impact in court.
Cap-n-tax must be defeated in the Senate then the EPA either forced to rescind their GHG finding or baited into action to allow a suit.
All the while CFLs (as fluorescent bulbs have been) are being thrown into dumps, incinerated, etc. and the toxins uncontrollably distributed globally. This is “green”? It must be that any kind of deposit plan will be instituted after everyone has been forced into reporting the last incandescent users.
AGW hypothisis? – PROVE IT, or get out of the way!
On my blog I’ve nominated the heroic CO2 molecule for the Nobel Peace Prize. I’d argue that carbon dioxide is more deserving of the Peace Prize than Al Gore…
http://algorelied.com/?p=3364
Ms. Jackson seems like the least ideological and most practical member of the Holdren/Chu/Luchenko/Jackson quartet. I get the sense that she’s just doing what she is being told to do without any fervent enthusiasm.
I think Obama’s burning up more of his political capital on this issue than it warrants, and it will come back to bite him. Is he not paying attention to the political lessons being learned in Australia?
I expected him to be a better long-term high-level strategist than he has proved to be to date (I think I might need to switch from Democrat to Independent)
For us there can sell scientific consensus and that rising temperatures in 100 years, but courts may not.
FWIW, O’Reilly seems to be coming around, at least a bit. (Climategate seems to have had an effect.)
I just did an entire show on carbon dioxide and carbon.
It is considered the breath of life.
It’s a tragic day if carbon is now considered a toxic substance.
We are made of carbon. We need it, so do plants, animals & all living things.
The science of carbon must be heard around the world since it is the basis
for an entire new industrial complex. It’s Rainmaking Time!
This is the same woman who confiscated the existing permits for mountaintop coal mining in West VA. So, she already knows how to shut down one industry.
That’s what we call “practice”.
Hold onto your hats, they are just getting started.
How did this get away from real pollution?
Mercury, sulphates, nitrates, phosphates, insecticides, hormones, etc.
Don’t hear much about real pollution any more.
Guess since the EPA was so effective with those things, it’s time to move on.
Please submit a F.O.I.A. request for all data relied on in making the determination, as well as all writtten or email communiation etc.
Does anyone else think Lisa Jackson looks like Eddie Izzard?
1917 in the making… and after civil war and 70 years of gulag.
evan! You of all people! post the link.
Hi Mike from Canmore … you make a good point and related to something I was thinking about Copenhagen. Related ideas.
And that is: What will the “Average Joe and Jill” think of the EPA finding and about Copnhagen?
Maybe I am naive, but it just seems to me that this EPA event, and three-ring Copenhagen circus, will push people too far … and all in a matter of a few days. I want to believe that there literally will be revolts in the streets. I am not an anarchist and would never cause people to riot (heck, I am a pacifist and grandfather) but it seems the time may have come where people will say “Enough is enough.” I dunno.
But maybe “Average Joe and Jill” just don’t get it … or don’t care … and will cower in submission.
This is a black day in history. I am very sad and angry.
Clive from Coaldale (Alberta, Canada)
Where at 6 PM MST it is -33°C (wind chill is -42°C) and we will probably shatter the record for overnight cold tonight.
The three networks might not be covering it, but it is hard to turn on the radio without hearing about the bad that is Climategate.
Does this mean we’re not allowed to fart anymore? They’ve taken the joy out of life!
OT, but you might be interested. McEntire is part of a discussion on CNN at the moment. So far he hasn’t mentioned the squash tournament….
Gary (17:07:16) :
Uh, Gary… if it is happening in areas your government claims sovereinty over, what makes you think you are not responsible for it and have to pay your fair share?
The EPA has to go; they have finally overstepped their statutory power. Every American needs to write their congress critters and tell them what they think of this power grab.
In effect, the EPA is saying that heating your house in winter is a public health hazard.
The alternative?
We have a chance to get some of these Yo-yo’s out in 2010. I only hope everybody jumps at the chance.
Mike from Canmore wrote “One thing I don’t understand is how our southern neighbors allowed a bureaucracy to have this level of jurisdictional power.”
There has been a battle amongst the three branches of the U.S. government, Executive, Legislative and Judicial with the Executive and Judicial claiming the lion’s share of power. This has always been agreeable to the Legislative branch since the American people do not, in significant numbers, support the radical agenda of the left. What the left cannot gain through the Legislative branch, they require the Executive and Judicial branches to grant by fiat. And by ceding power, through inaction, the Legislative branch can pretend they are not responsible for the overreaching acts of the Executive branch, and the rewriting and nullification of the Constitution by the Judicial branch. It’s gone so far that the American people need to find a reset button before its too late.
Obama’s Science Advisor Confirms the Scandal unintentionally:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-obamas-science-adviser-confirms-the-scandal-%E2%80%94-unintentionally/2/
Glenn Beck Climategate Warning CG Slaughtered Polar Bears Part 1 12-06-09
My bad. Of course, it’s McIntyre
Smoot-Hawley 2009.
None of this surprises me…and it will get worse before it gets better. People are actually waking up to what kind of ultra-progressive administration they (well, not me actually) elected last year. 2010 looks to be the year we can fight back at the ballot box. Until then…
And by the way – to those who think they can win the day in the courts, what kind of judges do you think the Obama administration is nominating?
“It would depend on the person’s size and how active they are. Find the CO2 rates for an hour during sleep and being awake, multiply them by whatever you need and you’ll figure out an annual estimate.
However, a rough estimate (curtesy of “The Earth Blog”) assuming 12 breaths per minute (resting breath rate) is 500kg
The number is easy to estimate: breaths per minute x CO2 per breath x minutes per year
From Wiki – the breath rate is 12 to 25 per minute. Size of breath is 500 mL. Percent CO2 exhaled is 4% so CO2 per breath is approx 0.04g ( 2g/L x .04 x .5l).
CO2 Per year= 12 x 0.04 x 525600 (minutes per year) = 252kg/yr
CO2 (25 breaths) = 525 Kg/yr.
So – pick a number between 252 Kg/yr and 525Kg/yr
1000 lbs/year is a good figure of merit.”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_CO2_is_exhaled_by_the_average_human_each_year
OK, so if the average human exhales 1000 lbs/yr and there are 6,000,000,000 humans we can assume that the combination of average human exhalation is 6,000,000,000,000 lbs/yr which works out to 3,000,000,000 tons/yr. Seems that fossil fuels aren’t the only major source of carbon, someone should definitely get regulating this problem immediately!! Thank you Lisa Jackson!!
If the law has passed, how will the US delegates be able to enter US soil, the airplanes must stop at the border no? and what about driving, is that banned? what are the penalties for exhaling?
It’s like December, 7th 1941, only this time the enemy attacks us from within.
Hawai play’s a role too and Obama is very popular in Japan.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_CO2_is_exhaled_by_the_average_human_each_year
“It would depend on the person’s size and how active they are. Find the CO2 rates for an hour during sleep and being awake, multiply them by whatever you need and you’ll figure out an annual estimate.
However, a rough estimate (curtesy of “The Earth Blog”) assuming 12 breaths per minute (resting breath rate) is 500kg
The number is easy to estimate: breaths per minute x CO2 per breath x minutes per year
From Wiki – the breath rate is 12 to 25 per minute. Size of breath is 500 mL. Percent CO2 exhaled is 4% so CO2 per breath is approx 0.04g ( 2g/L x .04 x .5l).
CO2 Per year= 12 x 0.04 x 525600 (minutes per year) = 252kg/yr
CO2 (25 breaths) = 525 Kg/yr.
So – pick a number between 252 Kg/yr and 525Kg/yr
1000 lbs/year is a good figure of merit.”
Well, if 1000 lbs/yr is a figure of good merit and there are 6,000,000,000 (rounded down) people on Earth then human exhalation causes 6,000,000,000,000lbs/yr of emissions which works out to 3,000,000,000 tons/yr of CO2 emitted. Someone should do something about this.
Also, if people add 3,000,000,000 tons per year, then there math is off on how much fossil fuels add.
Polar bears and BBQ sauce (17:09:32) :
And of course we have new psycho climate porn to boot:
These people are crazy and should be locked up. Really!
Insane? Insane!
All your breath are belong to our deer leader.
How will the EPA regulate volcanoes?
Oh crap, sorry about the double. It did not show up the first time.
Just imagine, the olympics will become outlawed due to exercise causing excessive CO2 production.
Runners will be shot
and sex will be strictly limited to once a year
Oh geez. Sorry mods to make more work for ya. They did not even show up as awaiting moderation, which made me think I got eaten by the spam filter because of the link.
Reply: Patience is a quality possessed by some, desired in all. ~ ctm
[I understand the cries of censorship will ring out, but you have lots of other places to post these smears. I don’t feel Anthony needs to offer you a venue. (well funded…that’s a laugh. we are all volunteers). ~ charles the moderator]
Mike from Canmore, Bruce,
The USA gets the most (or second most) oil froim teh oil sands; Mexico is the other source. They would have to be insane to embargo their own major source of oil … oh, wait a minute.
I’m forgetting these people are communist ideologues and members of the Socialist Internationale.
For all our careless talk we are going to do forced labour in geological CO2 storage facilities until the end of our lives.
That first sentance appears to be missing some words.
After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence as developed, packaged and published by the UN IPCC and careful consideration of public comments, before hitting the delete button… the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today…
Now fixed.
Watch now for the Surgeon General to declare a health hazard and let the regulations begin again!
I have never felt so proud to be Canadian. Canada has won the “Fossil of the Day” award at Copenhagen. Go for a shut-out, Mr. Harper!
David (17:51:16)
Not to mention adding the c02 breathed by all other species..
So what is the conclusion? Lovelock is right. Life is a stain and curse. Misanthropy is good, since if we can’t punish all life, we can at least fill ourselves with rather unecessary dogmatic misanthropy, brimstone and doom.
Obligatory quote –
“In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.”
Alexis de Tocqueville
Ron de Haan (17:03:19) :
Watch how Markey blinks–eyes of a liar.
Bret Baier Best Climategate Discussion 12-06-09
Sad to say, but both the Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this one. I am intent of belonging to a 3rd party without religious affiliation and that is dedicated to personal freedoms and responsibility. Neither party will get my vote “just because” ever again.
Bingo.
That’s exactly it.
And I sincerely hope more people wake up and smell the coffee BEFORE that happens.
Geoff in Calgary
You guys have no idea. I work for a state environmental agency, in the Air side of things, and the EPA and Ms. Jackson are going whole hog and trying to kill industrial development (well… they want mythical ‘green’ jobs).
The Endangerment finding is only one part. There’s the GHG reporting requirements that are kicking in, and worst of all, the NSR (New Source Review) tailoring rule.
The tailoring rule would regulate everything down to about 50mmbtu/hr natural gas combustion sources (a small industrial boiler, or large apartment sized unit). And that’s ONLY if they get away with setting the major source threshold at 25,000 tons of CO2. If it goes by the regular rule (which, since its hardwritten into the Clean Air Act, it should), the thresholds are 100 or 250 tons…. basically your house if you burn gas or oil.
This is unequivocally a power grab/blackmail move from an Administration that promised to ‘depoliticize’ the EPA.
On the non-GHG side, we’ve also got the issue of the EPA lowering NAAQS to levels beyond natural, which is also a way to kill growth.
gaak!
Ron de Haan (17:50:58) :
Obama is popular abroad because he doesn’t pursue America’s interests. He’s a push-over.
IMHO,
the sleeping giant will be put out of its misery with public servants such as Mr Markey. The drivel being foisted as truth is so offensive to me that I have trouble containing my anger.
Bill Oreilly needs a swift kick to the head, and desperately needs to evaluate the state of the Nation in regards to this Climate fraud. I have spent extensive time testing replacement solvents in response to the Montreal Protocol; I will not suffer from another such UN mandate.
Red
outstanding in the cornfield
Beyond biofeedback
Without a matching bill passed through the Senate this doesn’t really have any teeth, am i right???
Reply: Patience is a quality possessed by some, desired in all. ~ ctm
Very true. It always shows right up as awaiting moderation, but this time just disappeared. Never seen that happen and then had a comment actually post afterward. Lesson learned.
Why don’t we ban DIESEL first, it’s the one that causes health effects, petrol is much much healthier!!! This will push people into buying more diesel cars!!
In 2002, the US Environmental Protection Agency concluded that diesel exhaust is a “likely human carcinogen”, and a “chronic respiratory hazard to humans…it is reasonable to presume that the hazard extends to environmental exposure levels”.
Health effects of diesel exhaust
* Coughs and phlegm… See More
* Lightheadedness, nausea
* Increased susceptibility to allergens like dust or pollen
* Irritation of eyes, nose, throat and lungs
* Inflammation of lungs, and increased asthma attacks
* Respiratory diseases such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease
* Lowered resistance to respiratory infection
* Macrophages overwhelmed by particles result in immune reactions that cause inflammation and ‘sticky’ blood, increasing risk of clots and both heart and lung disease
* Mutations in chromosomes and damage to DNA
* For people exposed chronically to 1µg/m3 of diesel exhaust, a rate of lung cancer in the range of 34 to 650 people per million
* Possible cause of multiple chemical sensitisation, leading to changes in red and white blood cells, bleeding, liver damage, and degeneration of the nervous system.
There are two things about diesel exhaust that affect our health: one is the particles and their size; the other is what the particles are made of. Particles are made whenever something is burned – whether wood, petrol, tobacco, gas or diesel. Diesel is popular for fuel economy, but the size, number and composition of the particles in its exhaust make it more toxic than other fuels.
Burning diesel creates fine particles of oily carbon, ash, sulphates, and sulphuric acid that are ejected out the exhaust pipe and into the air. Diesel exhaust is thickest when the engine is old, working hard, or badly tuned, and the fuel has impurities.
While only 10 per cent of cars and trucks run on diesel, they’re responsible for around 80 per cent of fine particles from vehicles. Along with road grit, bits of brake lining, tyre rubber, and exhaust from other fuels, they form mostly invisible dust storms in the concrete canyons and suburban savannas of our cities.
The high hazard zone for health is considered to be 150 metres either side of busy roads – particularly within 50 metres. Depending on the number of vehicles trailing plumes of particles in their wake, levels here can be two, three, up to 10 times higher than the usual city background – which is already unhealthily high.
As particle concentrations in the air rise, so do death rates, from a variety of causes. And the impacts add up over a lifetime. At greatest risk are children, with their developing lungs; the elderly, on top of a lifetime of exposure; and people with emphysema, asthma, and chronic heart and lung disease.
Lisa Jackson incompetence is staggering.
Maybe Americans should start paying attention to who they vote for instead of paying so much attention to who is winning America’s Got Talent.
After 30 years of political involvement, the one thing that seems different about this issue is the extent of energy and anger it generates in people who are far from being activists. I have never seen an educated, bourgeois group more primed for civil disobedience than right now. You can see it in comments here, and much more clearly in comments on news websites.
By all means, fight through FOI, fight through the courts, fight through the ballot box. But I suspect that politics has been permanently infected with Gramsci and Alinsky – control the institutions, then work as a radical. We may be forced to street action that is not in keeping with our basic political views simply because we have no option. I hope not. I fear so.
BTW, Jeremy, you are spot on about The Economist. What was a delightfully English, sceptical, rational magazine 30 years ago seems to have suffered the slow infiltration of advocates that all useful institutions seem to suffer (remember when Amnesty International stood for something real?). What happened to prudent, rational conservatism? They were on the wrong side on Iraq, and now on climate change.
This dumb admin furthers my belief that all upper level government officials should be forced to take IQ tests and have those results be made public.
By the way, a quick bit of math, since “big” polluters are those that put out 25k tons of CO2 then what do about human populations that are above 60k? Groups that big will be breathing out even more CO2 per year!
Actually, now that I think it through, any company that employs over 60k people will be eligible for regulation under these new laws due to their “emissions.”
Morons.
So does that mean there will be nore more fizzy (carbonated) soft drinks, champagne, beer?? Maybe they’ll have to use Nitrogen instead?
What about CO2 fire extinguishers? Ban them??
Also means no more heavy-breathing prank phone calls (you could go to jail AND get fined for polluting)…
“Andy_ (18:08:27) :
Without a matching bill passed through the Senate this doesn’t really have any teeth, am i right???”
Unfortunately, that’s not correct. The Clean Air Act and Amendments grabs ‘pollutants’. Declaring GHGs an endangerment is the first step to officially calling them a pollutant. Then existing rules kick in to force the regulation.
P Wilson (17:59:57) :
Couldn’t find estimates of that, but I haven’t ever seen respiration addressed. It is a large chunk.
I felt physically sick watching that. I just wonder what will happen as temperatures continue to drop. How will they justify things then? And precisely how do they propose to stop climate change. King Canute tried to show he was not omnipotent by demonstrating that he couldn’t hold back the tide. These people would have us believe that they can.
Nitrous oxide? I knew they didn’t have a sense of humor.
Gasoline (“average formula”) C8H18
2C8H18 + 25O2 –> 16CO2 + 18H2O
EPA, more water vapor (already at high temperatures) than CO2 is produced from burning fossil fuels in cars. Water vapor is thousands of times more important to the greenhouse effect than CO2.
What was all that about the government that no longer fears it’s people? I seem to remember something about that. I hope the government remembers.
….she is beyond incompetent, she makes me want to hammer my iron ring with a 10 pound sledge.
Andy_ (18:08:27) :
Without a matching bill passed through the Senate this doesn’t really have any teeth, am i right???
The Executive is bypassing the Legislative with this move. The Executive is abusing its powers. The Executive knows it will never get passed the Legislative on this. So it is just exercising power on its own. All in the Legislative (House and Senate) and Judicial (courts) Branches are obligated to react to this misuse of power by the Executive to maintain a system of checks and balances.
Lisa Jackson – ” EPA will … help Congress craft … legislation that fufills THE VISION OF THE PRESIDENT . “
What’s make these people think a revolution isn’t coming?
So Americans now pollute by merely existing and you’ll be taxed on that “pollution”. So you’ll be taxed just for being alive and existing ultimately.
We had a tax on existence imposed on us in the UK. Twice. It was called the poll tax and was VERY unpopular. I see trouble ahead!
debreuil (18:25:52) :
they watched Blue Velvet to come to that scientific conclusion. 😉
Does anyone have a CV for Lisa Jackson. I searched online to see what her pubs & qualifications are, but couldn’t find anything. I see that she has two Chem.E. degrees, but, is she qualified as a scientist? Has anyone looked up her master’s thesis to see what her scientific chops are?
Seems to me that we are witnessing the historic moment of an attempted power grab via back-door by the Big Green. Just as outlined in their leaked documents. If they succeed, they will be able to intrude in and dictate the course of every aspect of each individual’s life. Red plague painted green. If the U.S. citizenry allows this, the rest of the world will follow down the drain.
Why do I keep thinking of Jabba the Hut when I watch Lisa Jackson? I don’t know…
Andy_ (18:08:27) :
Beyond the three branches of American government is the real power in America: “We the people…”
If the American people don’t want this ruling by the EPA it will eventually be scrapped. The Executive will find how much power it really has if it continues to turn a deaf ear to the people of the United States.
God forbid that we burn anything to keep us warm. When air is stagnet in Pendleton, folks are not allowed to burn wood in their stoves if their primary heat source is something else. Meaning that they must pay round the clock to keep the electricity up or the oil furnance going instead of mitigate the increasing expense by burning wood. Eventually this is going to come to blows.
Check out these record breaking temps. If the EPA stays its current course and the Earth continues to cool, people will die because of lack of money to pay for heat.
RECORD EVENT REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PENDLETON OR
1125 AM PST MON DEC 7 2009
…NEW DAILY RECORD LOW TEMPERATURES FOR DECEMBER 7TH…
NOTE: STATIONS MARKED WITH * INDICATE THAT THE STATION REPORTS ONCE
PER DAY. FOR CONSISTENCY…THESE VALUES ARE CONSIDERED TO HAVE
OCCURRED ON THE DAY THE OBSERVATION WAS TAKEN BUT MAY HAVE ACTUALLY
OCCURRED (ESPECIALLY FOR MAX TEMPERATURE) ON THE PREVIOUS DAY.
STATION PREVIOUS NEW RECORDS
RECORD/YEAR RECORD BEGAN
*COVE, OR -1 / 1972 -3 1917
*JOSEPH, OR 0 / 1927 -5 1893
*MADRAS 2N, OR 8 / 1978 8 (TIED) 1952
*MORO, OR 3 / 1972 3 (TIED) 1928
*MITCHELL, OR 20 / 2005 -6 1949
*PENDLETON(CITY), OR 14 / 1928 8 1890
*UNION ES, OR 1 / 1978 1 (TIED) 1928
*GOLDENDALE, WA 10 / 1922 9 1931
paullm said:
“The EPA position is a great opportunity waiting to be taken. Preparations must be made to sue the EPA as soon as they take any action as then they will be forced to PROVE any factually scientific basis for negative anthropogenic GHGs impact in court.”
I totally agree. Though I am no lawyer, it seems to me that the federal court room is the last place the so called “greens” want their cherished “science” to be examined. The hurdles of present day Daubert motions are too high for defending the predictions of current climate models or their claims of imminent tipping points and catastrophe. I say bring it on.
This day will live in infamy, hypocrisy, derision, and fraud. It truly is a day we will long remember, especially when it comes time to vote and pay (USA) our nominally “voluntary” taxes.
The Australians and Canadians may save the day by not following puny Britain and gutless America in this lemming-rush to green suicide. And suicide it is, despite the protestations of those who wish to “save the planet.” To save the planet, we must reduce the 6,000,000,000 humans down to a “sustainable” 100,000,000. Suicide is the quickest, easiest, and fairest method to accomplish this.
I suggest that the first to go should be everyone employed in the EPA.
I smell a revolution.
Do not count on my support.
Don’t get me wrong, I voted for the war hero and I think this Obama item is the worst disaster to barrel down the pike since Andrew Jackson split the treasury with his smelly pals and defied the Supreme Court by force of arms. But like it or lump it, our fellow ‘murr’cans, in their dubious wisdom, landed us in this sad mess over two successive election cycles. That’s the way we do things here.
And the only way to get us out of this fine mess we are in is the same way we got into it — by yanking our cranks next November.
“We may be forced to street action that is not in keeping with our basic political views simply because we have no option.”
As I recall, we were born of street action.
As we continue our ultimate slide to the next ice age (climate) with our inevitable ups and downs in temps (weather) – at some point the enviro-wacko’s will instantly flip and blame man made CO2 for the cooling. They’ll adjust their models to show negative temp feedback as CO2 increases to account for the cooling.
And thus, even an Ice Age will not change the political freedom grab.
(My models have predicted this political change so it must be true)
Bret Baier Climategate on CO2 Regulation 12-06-09
Hello All, I’ve created a poll on my site here, to get an idea of what people think of this (though I’m pretty sure I know based on the comments, lol)
Wes T. (18:05:16) wrote:
“You guys have no idea. I work for a state environmental agency, in the Air side of things, and the EPA and Ms. Jackson are going whole hog and trying to kill industrial development (well… they want mythical ‘green’ jobs).”
I’m not a scientist, and I have been lurking here (not to mention there, and everywhere!) and am beyond appalled that what we don’t know). Like others here, I have put up my own blog as a way of pulling my thoughts together.
IMHO, the world is being steamrolled into accepting “The foggy solution to the climate question”
http://hro001.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/the-foggy-solution-to-the-climate-question/
Shocking! EPA after CO2 while millions of Americans are forced to drink polluted water! Something is serious wrong here…..!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/business/energy-environment/08water.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
Years ago the EPA required all of our automobiles have catalytic converters that clean up exhaust gases so they spew out good water vapor and carbon dioxide. Now they say that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is a danger and poisonous. Are they f…. crazy or are we for putting up with their crap and regulations. With each day it gets closer to the time for the pitchforks and torches to come out and march on Washington.
Is it not supremely ironic that, on the same day the Jokenhagen love-in kicks off, uber-green (and hypocrite) -Richard Branson kicks off his rich-tourists-in-space ‘CO2 footprint’ enlargening scheme.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400353.stm
Days since last “official” sunspot: 15
From the Space Weather Prediction Center
Updated 2009 Dec 07 2201 UTC
Joint USAF/NOAA Report of Solar and Geophysical Activity
SDF Number 341 Issued at 2200Z on 07 Dec 2009
Analysis of Solar Active Regions and Activity from 06/2100Z to 07/2100Z: Solar activity was very low. No flares occurred during the past 24 hours. The solar disk was void of sunspots.
Solar Activity Forecast: Solar activity is expected to be very low.
Geophysical Activity Summary 06/2100Z to 07/2100Z: The geomagnetic field was quiet.
Geophysical Activity Forecast: The geomagnetic field is expected to be quiet for the next three days (08-10 December).
http://www.solarcycle24.com/
Aren’t there measurements which show the portion of CO2 in the atmosphere due to fossil fuel burning to be at under 5%?
And what will we ever do about that 95% greenhouse gas, water vapor. Maybe we could come up with a nice cover for the oceans. Heck during the ice age scare of the 70s the alarmists wanted to cover the poles with carbon black from old ground up tires. Boy that would have been terrible, given the AGW fraud of today. We would have done just the exact opposite of what we should have done … And then the weather changes.
I find it curious that every organisation uses the same wording within their press releases. Isn’t this what’s called a social meme?
I promise not to laugh if all the USians promise not to lecture me ever again about how their constitution prevents hijacking by special interests.
We have been hijacked by special interests many times throughout our history (even the revolution was vested in special interests).
Special interests do not particularly frighten me — until they start masquerading as public interest.
And, for better or for worse, freedom includes the freedom to be idiots, and includes the obligation to abide by the idiocy of our elected representatives and their appointed pum-pums.
Maybe we will need CO2 detectors in our homes for when we breadth too much. I should also install a CO2 filter on my taps since it is also dissolved in the water. Can we buy CO2-free beer? On the New Year we will have to drink flat Champagne to celebrate… Happy New World Order Year!
So the EPA declaration today serves two objectives,
1 Saving face for Obama when he comes to Copenhagen
2. Put pressure on the Senate to make progress on the Climate Bill of which Infofe states they have only 25 of the sixty votes.
Well I think they have to keep their heads cool, leave the Bill for what it is and fight the science on the EPA endangerment finding.
But never, never ever give in to the Bill.
CRU and NASA GISS and the entire clique of cheats will go flat on their face and in Court we will win.
Push the scam, let everybody know, call EPA, call the Senators, call the White House.
Pamela Gray (18:45:20) :
“God forbid that we burn anything to keep us warm. When air is stagnet in Pendleton, folks are not allowed to burn wood in their stoves if their primary heat source is something else. ”
That -3 in Cove was a shocker.They are a good 3000msl – it’s a bit higher than the Airport,which sits on the Valley floor for the Grande Ronde Valley at 2716 msl.
What I am seeing is Meacham,Point Prominence,all are high altitude,4200 and 6600
ft respectively, and are below zero now.Cove city hall is already-3 and going down.
When it is cold up high,we are in big trouble.I want it to snow to protect plants,
but when it does….
This was a shot over the bow of the American electorate, Dec 7th was selected on purpose,they could’ve waited…
I believe that too many people here are heartless, absolutely heartless.
For years, I too have dismissed AGW, not just on the science, but also on the illogicality of the arguments presented by believers, and by the fact that those who claimed to know that the world was doomed unless we return to a less industrial life showed by their own actions that they could not really believe what they said.
Now, however, I see that the Copenhagen consensus claims that AGW gives small children nightmares, and I saw a Fijian woman in Copenhagen, on several news broadcasts, work herself into tearful hysterics.
I’m convinced.
Repent, heretics, and be modern: stop thinking and be emotional!
This is the way organized crime runs a protection racket. There is hold a lit Molotov cocktail held over the congress and the rest of the country while telling them to pass onerous legislation or they’ll be forced to do something stupid. Any guesses on how many points this will drive down the adminstration’s approval rating by the end of the week?
All these years I thought it was the 2nd-hand smoke that was being exhaled that was the dangerous part.
Pamela Gray (18:04:59) : Sad to say, but both the Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this one. I am intent of belonging to a 3rd party without religious affiliation and that is dedicated to personal freedoms and responsibility. Neither party will get my vote “just because” ever again.
Perhaps form a “Science Party:” One that is devoted to the Scientific Method and the pursuit of truth.
From those truths outflow proper policy.
We have it all screwed up and the other way around.
We have gone from…
Dick Cheney of Haliburton…to
Al Gore of… http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/6491195/Al-Gore-could-become-worlds-first-carbon-billionaire.html
Essentially from the mother-flippin’ frying pan into the blankety blank FIRE.
And essentially, this is the SAME LIPSTICK …. DIFFERENT PIG!!
Down with them all!!!
Grrrrrrr.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
It might be time to flood the EPA with FOI requests and if there is a God, a good whistleblower will get those files out in the open soon… I heard there is a good site in Russia where those can be posted.
Hey Anthony, I know you will be interested in this story.
Note, how that NASA is still writing up global warming documents and submitting them to the media that this past decade was the hottest in recorded history.
And, knowing the future, that 2008 was an anomaly.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34282711/ns/us_news-environment
Next comes water vapor. http://www.ecoenquirer.com/EPA-water-vapor.htm
This EPA finding is unfortunately a very bad sign.
Obama already has a bad track record on civil liberties – now CO2-crimes can be added to the warrentless wiretapping and illegal detention tactics.
Note that building a house itself generates lots of CO2.
I calculated in a post at iTulip.com that the slab alone for an average sized house is responsible for 74 tons of CO2 emissions:
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13136
Thus every single construction company would be regulated by the EPA…
Any company that makes anything in the US also almost certainly will then fall under the EPA categories: every manufacturer, every corporate consumer of electricity over a certain amount, every energy producer/supplier/distributor, every transportation company, even large farms.
This is clearly a publicity stunt.
I fervently hope it rebounds but am not optimistic.
Runners will be shot
And when they catch me they will kill me. But first they must catch me.
Tomorrow I am taking the catalytic converter off my car. I suggest everyone else do the same so as to comply with the new EPA regulations. After that I am going to purchase another rifle.
Pamela Grey said
“Sad to say, but both the Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this one. I am intent of belonging to a 3rd party without religious affiliation and that is dedicated to personal freedoms and responsibility. Neither party will get my vote “just because” ever again”
It seems to me that third parties generally give victories to Democrats/leftists/statists.
What do the religious people have to do with this problem? And are you under the impression that an affiliation with the religious precludes a party from being dedicated to personal freedoms and responsibility?
Was the planet flooded during the Medieval warm period?
It’s Ba-ack.
3″ of snow in Modesto, CA. Snow in the valley reminiscent of the 70’s when “The Coming Ice Age” looked very real.
3rd night of skirting with alltime lows here.
Expecting 12 degrees tonight. 10 tomorrow night.
Running 5-10 degrees below last winter.
Global Warming is over, hope you enjoyed the show.
Lisa Jackson and the EPAs declaration of C02 Cold Turkey.
If implemented, the US will fall behind on new power plant construction, and this place will soon look like S. Africa with rolling blackouts the norm.
Crises are a way for them to make us feel that we are ‘in this together’, to give us a common sense of identity. This works on a national scale every day and is the reason that people in Iowa aren’t refusing to pay bills for people in California; we are all the same people based on national identity. ‘climate change’ represents an attempt to create a common world identity based on sharing a common ‘crisis’. I hate to sound like a ‘one world govt’ conspiracy nut but think about it…
There’s nothing like holding a gun to Congress’ head. Obama knows exactly what he’s doing, and it is not good for this country.
People will say how he could ever get re-elected in 2012. Well, FDR kept the country in a perpetual state of Depression whereby he created an entire generation dependent on government for their subsistence. Obama is FDR on steroids.
Think about it.
captainfish (19:13:30) :
“And, knowing the future, that 2008 was an anomaly.”
Yeah, and 1997 was normal!
CNN started this morning to take in questions from viewers about climate change. here it is:
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/07/climate-change-your-questions/
pls make a post like you did w/ “Send a greeting to Copenhagen Conference” so ppl can take action
I think our public officials have gone stark raving mad. There is no other way to put it.
Robert E. Phelan (18:37:41) :
“What’s make these people think a revolution isn’t coming?”
Because they are not as smart as we probably give them credit, Robert.
They will not see it [the revolution] coming when it happens [and it has already begun]….just like they are refusing to look at the real data that falsifies the quasi-religious dogma of their CAGW junk-science.
They are sheeple on an executive level, drunk with the intoxicating drug of group-think.
They are automatons and bureaucrats and narcissists and are too blinded by their own narcissism…to see the revolution coming.
My blood boileth right now….and it will take every reasonable person around the globe, whose blood boils as well….TO PUT ASIDE THEIR DIFFERENCES…and fight this crap.
Rise up and take arms.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Sieg. Heil! Sieg. Heil! Sieg Heil!
The Brown Shirts of globalwarming win again.
Socialism works only so long as you have capitalist to pay the bills. This junk-science decision by the EPA greatly speeds the demise of capitalist bill payers.
I still think that the more freedom is squeezed out of the lives of the American people the more they will remember the Founding Fathers.
“…that who we are is who we were.”
Wouldn’t someone hyperventilate and pass out in the absence of CO2?
Rise up and take arms.
Take up pens. And voting booth levers.
Beware the “take up arms” thing. It can cut both ways.
Bozell: ‘Networks Finally Cover ClimateGate, And They Couldn’t Be More Biased’
http://mrc.org/press/releases/2009/20091207012943.aspx
Glenn Beck Climategate Part 2 12-07-09
Inhofe has a better handle on the American resources than Markup.
DaveE.
Shale gas! 50-60 year supply minimum (probably double that). So take the oldest coal burning power stations off line and bring on new natural gas ones. Sounds so simple but it would only cut 100% of the mercury, 99% of the nitrous, 33% of the sulfur currently emitted by the coal plant. It would also reduce the evil CO2 emissions by 40% if you still think that is important (god knows how you could after the last 3 weeks).
So instead we will pass trillions through a cap and trade system with Mr 1% Gore and his GoldmanSachs pals in the middle collecting on every transaction. No real progress will be made.
How stupid is the EPA and the environmental movement not to seize this natural gas bonanza? This is the bridge to the future we have been looking for. It just isn’t in a field that isn’t renewable and politically correct to embrace.
Listening to some of the Youtube presentations in this post, I get the idea that the EPA’s declaration is a way to coerce (some say blackmail) Congress into passing Cap & Tax. Two points. First, assuming congress kowtows to the EPA, how will that defer the EPA from acting as it sees fit? Kowtowing doesn’t hinder tyranny, it emboldens it.
Second, doesn’t the EPA get its funding, if not its existence, from Congress? If so, coercion can work both ways. If I was a Congressperson and an agency I funded tried to coerce me, that agency’s funding would be at a minimum cut to the bone.
Wake up America. In 2010 vote the members of Congress who support (a) Cap & Tax and/or (b) the EPA out of office. If you don’t, you too will have to learn how to kowtow.
My God when is all this insanity going to stop? First we have Maurice Strong who, through the UN, wants the standard of living of all the Western civilizations reduced to the lowest common denominator where we all live in mud huts, ride bikes and eat grubs. Then the global warming-climate change alarmists (the best science money can buy) cobble together a bunch of fiddled data and produce phony results saying we are all doomed. Next, the UN IPCC takes this phony data and tries to regulate the world. Next, to try to lend an air of respectability to this whole con job, we have the charlatan Al Gore and his sci-fi horror flick terrifying a whole generation of children and the more impressionable people. And now the last straw, Obama has added the EPA thugs as future enforcers to make it happen in the US.
Is there any possible way that this whole mess can be stopped? Will common sense and good science ever be able to turn this disaster around?
Call their bluff. This overreach will destroy the economy and it belongs to the Libs. This is the certain formula for 25% unemployment. There won’t be a democrat left standing – anywhere – and they know it.
By all means, write your democrat congressional reps. Invite them to take this path.
This is no longer about the environment or climate change. This is a full-on, frontal assault on democracy itself. I trust our southern neighbors will not allow their democracy to be taken away from them.
Just a few quotes from some of the usual suspects:
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme
“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies
“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund
“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King
“We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
– David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
– Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute
“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
– Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation
“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
– Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University
“Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance
“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview
“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit
“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution
“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society
“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia
“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point
“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb
“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment
“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor
“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind
“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier
“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund
“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal
“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!
“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
– David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution
“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
– Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports
“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
– Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC
“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment
“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize
“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin
“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager
“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth
“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia
“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International
“Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barack Obama, US Presidential Candidate
“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance
“In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point
“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report
“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution
“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General
“Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
– Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute
“A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point
“Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance
“Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced – a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”
– UN Agenda 21
“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution. Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.”
– Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens
Kill the IPCC
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2764827.htm
It’s too bad toxic metals, such as mercury, and chemical fertilizers are not considered as dangerous as greenhouse gases. If only we could achieve scientific consensus on the health hazards and environmental impact of these “pollutants,” we may have a cleaner, healthier world to leave our children and grandchildren.
Deep Solar Minimum: Not getting enough attention?
http://www.examiner.com/x-17371-Raleigh-Climate-Examiner~y2009m12d7-Deep-Solar-Minimum-Not-getting-enough-attention
How dumped down is the public? Has anyone noticed how the word science is thrown around like some mystical God?? A mysterious God the proles cannot understand. I spoke to Science and Science says “there will be floods, we cannot ignore science, we must prevent climate change, peer-review science, don’t be afraid of science blah blah.”
p.s Science!
Kill the IPCC
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/?p=2148
According to Bob Carter the IPCC should be “killed” and COP15 is the right place to do it. If some of the skeptics present at COP15 could pull off such a trick EPA would be left empty handed because the have officially declared the rely for the science on the IPCC.
I am in favor!!! Does my vote count???
The goal is to damage industry. The definition of large includes good sized courthouses, hospitals and schools. If they apply bias and only target certain industry and size, some judge will be more than willing to sign a restraining order.
From the video, it appears they have already begun Sequestering CO2, within Lisa Jackson.
RE: TurkeyLurkey (16:49:08) :
“Hey Is Water Vapor A GHG that would fall within the EPA regulations?
Just wondering…”
Just wait: the EPA has just as much authority to declare dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) to be a dangerous greenhouse pollutant as they do for CO2. What causes all that smoke you see billowing from the chimneys whenever the climate change is mentioned on TV, colorless CO2 or condensing water vapor?
evanmjones (19:39:28) :
Rise up and take arms.
Take up pens. And voting booth levers.
Beware the “take up arms” thing. It can cut both ways.
It was a figure of speech, bro. However, there is no reason to be politically correct here.
You know what I meant.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
I am sickened by this development…
Well, I’ve lit a (potentially illegal depending on an unavailable statement from an ill defined government body about when I may and may not be warm) fire in the old fire place. Had a very large bowl of Ham & Beans for dinner. And I’m making a cup of tea (while contemplating joining a tea party).
Given the prediction of 20 degrees below average for the center of the USA for the next few week, there are going to be a lot of states that the Dimocrates are going to loose. Sadly, Kalifornia will not be among them.
OK, the strategy is clear to me: Attack the attacker. EPA has to be sunk.
In the CNN interview, Markey says “whole villages” in Alaska are falling into the ocean due to the 6 degree rise in temperature …. Funny … I would have thought there would have been pictures on the news at 6.
Can anyone name a village in Alaska that has fallen into the ocean lately?
This will cause a civil war because of the different amount of fossil fuels used by various states. Manufacturing will leave states burning coal. In Colorado where I live the ski industry will be crushed as air tourism dies. Even our green industry will be crushed. Tonight Vestas announced they intend to furlough their wind turbine plants here. They can not compete with China or maybe they will move to Mexico like long time employer Garvin Industries is doing.
I suggest we say a prayer to the patron saint of sceptical science: Giordano Bruno. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno
Unfortunately he was a martyr rather than a saint and was burned at the stake.
The lawyers are on it. We will find a way (more likely several ways) to challenge this in court.
http://sowellslawblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/epa-declares-ghgs-danger.html
Folks – a bit about the administrative process (and hello to Wes T. he and I might know each other in the real world as I work with a lot of air agencies as an industry person). Anyhow, to clarify, EPA did not finalize a regulation on CO2 today. Currently, CO2 is not a “regulated pollutant” under the Clean Air Act (CAA). The endangerment finding is a prerequisite to regulating GHGs from motor vehicles. Once the motor vehicle GHG rule goes final (likely in Q1 or Q2 next year from what I’ve heard from EPA and some other well-connected sources), CO2 becomes a regulated pollutant with respect to the CAA, triggering Prevention of Significant Deterioration (PSD) review for stationary sources. If the “tailoring rule” stands, the major source threshold will be 25,000 tons per year of CO2e as Wes T. notes. However, it is unlikely that the 25,000 tpy threshold will survive a legal appeal since the CAA plainly specifies 250 tpy as the threshold. At that point, congress would have to step in and amend the CAA itself to avert a total permitting gridlock situation. That’s my $0.02 as a fairly knowledgeable person about these matters.
Roger Sowell (20:14:42),
Prepare yourself. This will be one of the expert witnesses against you: click
Dismantle the EPA!
As a small aside, people on George Monbiot’s web site keep referencing the Munk debates that he was involved in and he keeps deleting their comments and the link to the debates. Obviously George is sensitive to the butt kicking he took.
Robbie
Cites for the quotations would greatly enhance the value of the list. It is pretty stunning, and right out in the open.
EPA also finds that GHG emissions from on-road vehicles contribute to that threat.
The Amish ride tractors to town. No problem. What is their fuel economy?
Andy – I take it you are a Canadian Engineer (Iron Ring). Me too, I suspect quite a few of us lurking on here.
Wayne in Faraway, Alberta (yes, it’s a real place)
Mariss Freimanis (19:30:15) :
I think our public officials have gone stark raving mad. There is no other way to put it.
No. They just have very different goals in mind.
Roger Sowell (20:14:42) :
Do you think this will take care of California’s problem as well?
How fitting that such an arrogant and tone deaf regulation come to fruition on Pearl Harbor Day.
steve (19:21:50) :
“I hate to sound like a ‘one world govt’ conspiracy nut but think about it…”
If you aren’t thinking about it, then you arent thinking -this has always been all about politics
It should scare any thinking person.
If those in charge think we will go with out a fight, they are sadly mistaken & will pay a heavy price for it in 2010.
First climate-gate and now this. It reminds me of a person so scared that they grabbed a gun for protection and then shot themselves in the foot. Now being scared and in pain they rapidly reloaded and shot the other foot. This has got to go to court now and with the US laws on disclosure things should get interesting. And for those saying you can’t win in a rigged court I say you don’t have to. The final judgment will be made at the voting booth, and I suspect the anyone this ideologically driven is probably reloading yet again and looking for a third foot.
EPA’s first statement is wrong:
Science overwhelmingly shows greenhouse gas concentrations at unprecedented levels due to human activity
I haven’t heard that one before – unprecedented ghg concentrations. Nice of them to start out their “scientific” conclusions with another Whopper.
Any responsible media people around here?
Only in the 60s during an earthquake. Obviously due to man-made CO2.
If all this madness is too much for anyone to bear and you are wondering how did we ever get to this ridiculous point then I highly recommend this documentary, which explains the origin of idioting and how idiots have played a vital role in society for centuries. While many idiots are self taught, this documentary confirms that they have been formally teaching idiocy at the University of East Anglia since at least the 70’s (when the documentary was made).
If you listen at 2:42 you can hear the narrator say,
“Mr Phil Jones is no ordinary idiot. He is a lecturer in idiocy at the University of East Anglia. After 3 years of study.. these apprentice idiots receive a diploma of idiocy, a handful of mud and a kick on the face.”
from comment #5: A day that will live in infamy, when an American government agency decided to declare a natural component of the atmosphere a pollutant it could regulate.
Ozone?
When I heard this news this morning, I had a different reaction. Pity the poor EPA, for now they get to choose between:
1) not regulating CO2, and getting buried under lawsuits from the greenies; or
2) trying to regulate CO2 and discovering that it’s effectively impossible — that it can’t be done without causing massive shortages in essential services like telephone, cellphone, electricity, food distribution…
Sit back and enjoy. Here’s where the fun begins.
Has anyone who wants electricity bills to “necessarily skyrocket” thought about what will happen to the elderly on fixed incomes who can barely get by now?
We will find some of them frozen to death in the wintertime since their houses will be too cold.
And we STILL don’t have the code for the “value-enhanced” CO2 anomaly graph. Anybody wanna make a bet that within 3 years, the other shoe is dropped on that graph as well?
Apologies as it maybe off topic but knowing what I know now the OP15 opening film is frightening…how do we stop these lunatics?
Anthony:
Sheesh, one disappears for a couple hours to feed and get the kids to bed and there is a veritable encyclopedia written below my comments. Keep it up. This is one of the best ways to fight this crap. Yes, we in Canada are in the same boat sailing straight for mediocrity.
Brent et al from Calgary. I actually live in BC. I’ll volunteer to help build the pipeline through to Port Hardy though. Believe it or not, finding an alternative cust. for the oil is the best way to help our friends to the south. Competition is such a wonderful thing.
Joanne. Under which arm does a bureaucracy like the EPA fall under? It doesn’t readily appear to fall under any. Does it report directly to the exec. branch? If so, control of all physical resources to a branch consisting of 2 elected, the rest appointed, (yes they go through congressional nominations but Van Jones go through!!) is very dangerous. I would have thought it would have been created and therefore directed by the legislative. No matter what, for them to have this much authority to control the lives of people is very frightening. Is it only through the courts one could repeal this thing? If so, you’d better fight every Sup Crt. appointment Bama makes.
Mike Hodges
Proud Supporter of Friends of Science.
http://www.friendsofscience.org/
I just came across an article by Gavin Schmidt, dated 1st October 2009, in which he says at the end:
”ALL CLIMATE MODELS ARE WRONG, BUT SOME OF THEM ARE USEFUL, AND BY WORKING MORE CLOSELY TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY BEING POSED BY POLICYMAKERS, WE CAN MAKE THEM MORE USEFUL STILL”.
Useful to answer policymakers who are posing questions like – How much should we tax them? How much CO2 should we reduce (by shutting down our power plants, industry and farms)?
Economic suicide on the basis of projections by climate models which the blighter Gavin Schmidt say are ALL (every one of them) WRONG!
Has the world gone totally insane?
“Tomorrow I am taking the catalytic converter off my car. I suggest everyone else do the same so as to comply with the new EPA regulations. After that I am going to purchase another rifle.”
No, no, no. That is just wrong. Get a 12-gauge shotgun. That’s the gun that won the West. Can load it with anything from rock salt to buckshot to solid slugs. Ammunition is inexpensive and plentiful. I highly recommend a Trench Gun (as anything banned by the Geneva Convention has got to be pretty lethal), which is also well-made.
To Nicks post at 18:13:19 “Why don’t we ban DIESEL first, it’s the one that causes health effects”
My new job now is driving truck. Did you know that the new diesel trucks now burn so clean that the exhaust pipes don’t even get dirty? No kidding, the inside of the pipes are perfectly clean. So I think the dirty diesel problem has been fixed.
Ed
Pamela Gray (18:04:59) :
“Sad to say, but both the Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this one.”
Come on, get real, where’s the proportianality?
AGW is a massive left wing movement carrying nearly every let wing cause along. Virtually 100% of elected Democrats are on board while most Republicans are not. The relative few Rs who have jumped into the AGW vanguard does not equate to the Democrat machine pushing this.
Oregon is the ultimate example with Democrats dominating every level of goverment and all of them participating int eh movement to the nth degree.
If all you did is listen to both left and right talk radio or watch left and right TV with their respective party guests it could not more clear. So where and how do you get this both are to blame thing?
I supose the R’s can share a fraction of the blame for not energizing enough opposition to the left’s movement but that’s not what you said or inferred.
There are many democrats who are skeptics of course but their party, their progressiveness, their agendas are all entirely behind every aspect of AGW and all of the policies coming.
In stark contrast the Republicans are not on board and they have finally come out stronger in this raging battle which will only get worse before it subsides.
Wayne, yes indeed……Faraway…….hmmm, i figured i’d been down every road in Alberta by now……apparently not, where abouts is that?
So the USA EPA has of today classed all GHG gases as pollutants no doubt us Australians being such good little citizens will too. Being carbon based life forms which breath out nearly a KG of CO2 per day I and you are a pollutant and don’t die and decay! The most potent GHG is water vapour so it is also a pollutant. The last important pollutant on this basis is methane, that is flatulence. So repentant sinners and stop it now.
The most important countries in this debate are 1 China, 2 USA and 3 Russia. We must insist they bring their emissions per capita down to 3 tonnes, Somali can do it so why can’t they? If they don’t lets set up tariff barriers, if that does not work let us declare war! Wonder what a solar powered army tank looks like?
Of the 29 tonnes each Aussie emits per year only 10% comes from the home the other 90% is industry, transport and city buildings. Governments must calculate how dear energy will have to be so that we each reduce our footprint by 26 tonnes and set that as the price! Easy just ask Bob Brown our Greens senator.
The winter of 2009-2010 in Colorado is already legendary. The cold and snow is unprecedented. It looks and feels like Siberia around here.
The “big lie” has come to America.
Smokey, great cartoon. I hope he is a witness. Unfortunately, it is likely he will not qualify as an expert. It would be great sport to cross-examine the Nobel-prize winner and pin him down as he makes one blunder after another – e.g. the earth’s core is millions of degrees.
Actually, it would not be a fair contest. No disrespect to some politicians (very few), but as a group, they don’t know science or engineering or law. A good attorney should terrify them.
Does this ruling mean that people with respiratory diseases will be able to sue businesses?
This scam is way, way bigger than fraudulent climate science and an isolated scheme to make money out of thin hot air. And it can not be reduced to a political battle between Democratic and Republican or liberal and conservative belief systems. In my opinion, the most interesting question right now is: How far down the rabbit hole is WUWT prepared to go?
Endangerment and Cause or
Contribute Findings for
Greenhouse Gases Under
Section 202(a) of the Clean Air
Act:
EPA’s Response to Public
Comments
The EPA comments can be found here: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment.html
I emigrated to this country more than 40 years ago. I managed to create a good life for myself and my family. My sense of well being has been based not just on material well being, but also on the knowledge that the government, by and large was competent and well intentioned. The political parties may have had different view of how to achieve these objectives, but by and large they shared these objectives.
This EPA finding makes me seriously doubt my previous view of the competence and good intentions of the government – at least the present administration-. I hope that the constitutional safeguards will prove to be adequate to protect the nation against the manipulations of an unscrupulous and power hungry administration.
OT, but still interesting:
http://www.news.com.au/national/kevin-rudd-pledges-to-repay-ets-rise/comments-e6frfkvr-1225808012641
It looks like a ponzi scheme, sounds like a ponzi scheme then it likely is a ponzi scheme.
http://www.qualityresearch.org.uk/docs/samples/Effects_of_Urbanization_on_the_Environment.php
TH (21:26:51) :
The winter of 2009-2010 in Colorado is already legendary. The cold and snow is unprecedented. It looks and feels like Siberia around here.
The “big lie” has come to America.
There’s an Arctic blast coming this week.
Smokey (20:23:29) :
Roger Sowell (20:14:42),
Prepare yourself. This will be one of the expert witnesses against you: click
The cartoon could be improved by showing a bulk of third world children starving to death because Al bought the indulgences that allow him to burn like that.
“Andy_ (21:24:48) :
Wayne, yes indeed……Faraway…….hmmm, i figured i’d been down every road in Alberta by now……apparently not, where abouts is that?”
40 km north of Rocky. 40 km west of Rimbey – see http://www.canabian.com and come by for a visit in the area. Thinking of applying for carbon offsets on the farm … might be more money in that that actually farming it!
Wayne
These fascists need to be held in a C02-free environment. I mean, they say it is a pollutant, right?
Check out the website of the CTV in Canada:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091207/greenhouse_gasses_091207/20091207?hub=TopStoriesV2
I wrote a comment to the staff:
CO2 Mask???
“Has it occurred to anyone that CO2 is an odourless, invisible gas that cannot directly harm people in it’s current trace amounts. The argument goes it may potentially cause harm over long time frames through global warming and subsequent sea level rise. Posting a woman with a mask serves to misinform the public. Would you be this careless and show someone wearing a mask in fear of contracting aids or H1N1. I guess the point you are trying to make is she would kill herself by trapping her own exhaled CO2.”
He wouldn’t would he?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/08/obama.gore/index.html
Democratic officials have said Obama is not looking to tap Gore for a Cabinet-level post or any other position in the administration.
But a Gore appointment would almost certainly be greeted with celebration from members of the party’s liberal wing, many of whom are still angry he lost the White House in 2000 despite winning the popular vote.
Andy – it was 38 below this morning. It is 30 below outside right now. I have burned about a half cord of wood today heating the house. All wood off my property that I grew. Does that make me carbon Neutral? Or if I lived in the US, I guess down the road I would be in trouble. (I also have a geothermal system for secondary heat and propane for back up hot water and a house with one foot thick walls to reduce heat loss.
Wander what Al Gore has in his waterfront Condo? Probably doesn’t care.
Wayne in Faraway
The silence of the main stream media in reporting on Climategate, except Fox, is the icing on the cake.
Just one of many posts here…
mkurbo (20:11:25) :
I am sickened by this development…
I agree… I am sickened, depressed, enraged, … I will do everything in my power to work against the tools in my state and district. I am pessimistic that our informed electorate will be able to offset the greed of the entitlement class, the guilt of the successful class, and the lunacy of the rest.
I fear this will grow out of hand. It will be on the heads of cynics like Obama, Gore, Mann, Jones, et al. (too many to list).
By the way, I resent the description of AGW as a religion. I happen to believe that religion in and of itself is not a bad thing. Perhaps cult is a more apt analog.
I assume the products of combustion from smokeless gunpowder are also considered GHGs.
It snowed in Sacramento California:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/december-7-a-climate-date-that-will-live-in-infamy/
I find it poetic justice that we have I-5 to LA closed, New Hampshire has reduced the speed limit to 45 mph due to snow, and there is a blizzard warning for N. Arizona… The Gods are laughing, and we know at whom…
I just don’t think the Obama Administration is very bright.
The EPA press release belies an ignorance that is disheartening. What’s also disappointing is the discussion I see among pundits on the issue. Most wouldn’t know what science was if it hit them in the face. Only three of them, William Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, and Nina Easton have provided anything close to knowledgeable analysis on the science (Kristol), the corruption of science (Easton), and the political motivation (Krauthammer). Sen. James Inhofe is also knowledgeable and stands alone among his peers, because he’s actually spent some time studying the issue.
I just watched a disheartening debate tonight between Dr. Pat Michaels and Bill Nye on Anderson Cooper. Even Cooper was a bit incredulous at Nye’s response to the revelation that the researchers at CRU were trying to suppress FOI requests. Nye acted nonchalant about the whole thing. He even said he would’ve done the same thing as the CRU researchers had his institution come under a FOIA request, because “I wouldn’t want to deal with it.” Talk about institutional corruption! I lost whatever respect I had left for him!
Today feels like the inmates taking over the asylum–and the inmates are our leadership! One of many instances in our government institutions, I’m sure.
I second what TH said 4 posts above. It’s a balmy 8 degrees in Denver right now, and the wind chill factor will put us below zero over night. We didn’t even make it out of the single digits today (the daily high was 9), and the next several days will be more of the same.
On the larger issue of CO2 regulation by the EPA, I am utterly speechless. Several other commentors have mentioned that the announcement made them feel physically ill, and I entirely agree. This must have been what it felt like after the Munich Conference of 1938 – at least to the few remaining sensible and conservative minded Brits – when Neville Chamberlain triumphantly proclaimed, “Here is a piece of paper that bears [Hitler’s] name.” They watched in powerless silence, knowing that the world was about to convulse in one of its semi-centenerian paroxysms of black insanity. Gentlemen, this is the apex of the first hill of the roller coaster. The stomach-twisting plunge will happen any moment. Lord, I pray for my country. Please do not remove your lampstand from the United States of America. For the sake of the righteous, let these days be shortened!
I would be more than willing to support an effort to recall President Obama. I know there is no precedent for this, and I’m not sure about the constitutionality of recalling sitting presidents, but I think the effort still needs to be made. If nothing else, we will not let history go this way without a protest. We owe it to ourselves and our posterity to stand up once more and be champions of liberty and sanity. It’s time to start putting the word out, marshal the troops, gather the groundswell, and make a difference.
Lisa Jackson may be pandering to the greens, or to her boss, but from what I can gather the U.S. Chamber of Commerce led the way in kow-towing to warming crowd. Big companies were bought off when they saw the promise of profits, and others were scared to be left out. Recall the senate hearings (nearly a year ago) of big energy companies, including Duke, GE, etc, which were goaded into saying such things as “Our company will take the lead” in limiting our CO2…” and in calling for regulation whereby they would have to report their own emissions. Now they’ll have to report it.
Jackson did say one thing that left a glimmer of hope. On the Jim Lehrer News Hour tonight (interview with Gwen Iffil) she answered a soft question about how she answers skeptics (those old cranks) “who look at this (regulation) and still question the science behind it?” [If anyone still quesions the relative value of the paleo record after reading the recent e-mails, please see the recent thread here entitled, “American Thinker; Understanding the Decline”]. Jackson replied that recent skeptic criticisms are about a very narrow record of just a few scientists. The important implication here is that Obama’s Chief Environmental Protection Officer acknowledges the problem of the science, but deems it a minor distraction. Ironically, Mann has thus been “contained”.
The breadth and depth of Mann and Jones’s damning legacy can thus safely be ignored as far as CO2 policy is concerned because that work represents only a small fraction of the whole body of paleoclimatological study. In fact, since 2007, Steve McIntyre has repeatedly cited the pervasive misuse of data directly attributable to Mann.
The congressional testimony of Wegman and his important report on social connectedness of Mann http://www.probeinternational.org/old_drupal/UrbanNewSite/Wegman%5B2%5D.pdf
might provide a clear starting point for retracing this entire mess. It would be useful if someone had read the works concerned, but regardless, the citations and footnoting should be enough to indict authors who’ve incorporated Mann ’98, and this might allow one to put together a genealogy which clearly traces Mann’s bad data descending through successive “generations” of climatologists, identifying each and every work by paper title, author and journal. The disfigured graph which was reincarnated in each successive paper as a result is as damning as any test for parentage. I think it’s safe to assume that this bad DNA is going to be passed on until every scientist who partook of his research is ferreted out and identified in a graphical representation, just like a family tree, and called to account for the sins of their predecessor.
During one of Steve McIntyre’s exposes on CA, a newcomer innocently asked: Which proxies incorporated Mann’s corrupted data? The cursory reply came: “All of them”. I don’t think this is true, but if it is, perhaps all the better. A comprehensive list, with every work, author and journal included, showing the link to the now-discredited data-Mannipulations, proven by code and e-mails makes for quite a body of evidence. That’s the work that’s no good.
Unless she’s corrected authoritatively, Lisa Jackson will probably continue to marginalize the skeptic community with “The science leads you only to one conclusion. Nothing we have heard changes our views… from years of research… and the little that was bad was only “one set of data… out of dozens of sets of data… used by thousands of scientists…”
Assuming that the Mann / Jones data had become ubiquitous, this assumption on Jackson’s part is going to come back to haunt her.
new poetry from Al Gore (no, this isn’t a joke)
…….
One thin September soon
A floating continent disappears
In midnight sun
Vapors rise as
Fever settles on an acid sea
………..
Snow glides from the mountain
Ice fathers floods for a season
A hard rain comes quickly
Then dirt is parched
Kindling is placed in the forest
For the lightning’s celebration
……….
The shepherd cries
The hour of choosing has arrived
Here are your tools
………
Poetry prizes on the way for these. 😉
What a gumpy mind.
link to article about Al Gore poetry
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/12/al-gore-the-poet-laureate-of-climate-change.html
Wayne Delbeke (20:13:59) :
In the CNN interview, Markey says “whole villages” in Alaska are falling into the ocean due to the 6 degree rise in temperature …. Can anyone name a village in Alaska that has fallen into the ocean lately?
Yeah I caught that LOL. He is as big a DOOFUS as his co-author of the bill, who is concerned that the North Pole is evaporating.
Evaporating??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And these…..THESE bozos…..these morons are running our country????
Go figure.
Have a good laugh and watch this again:
http://vodpod.com/watch/1698240-waxman-north-pole-evaporating-we-must-save-santa
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
I wonder how long it will be until everyone gets a CO² rating? I guess everyone who posts here who be tagged ‘toxic exhalers’ while over at RealClimate Gavin would get to hand out ‘blessed exhaler’ badges to his followers. See you all in reeducation camp.
jmbnf
Tell them that a human body normally caries about a 56000ppm load of CO2! While the atmosphere has only about 380ppm = .038%.
pCO2 human body/atmospheric pressure = 40-44/760 = 5.6% = 56000ppm., approximately.
I am frankly of the opinion that this woman may be mentally challenged. And I am not kidding. She sounds as if she got her ‘degree’ from Dairy Queen.
The “Reds” are no longer under the bed America,
they ARE in the whitehouse, and
just about every other institution (and parts of the legal system) that needed infiltrating.
Your system has been stitched up, before your very eyes from “within”.
The “irony” is that their paymasters are the global companies / elites,
and the “communists” do not even realise it.
A facist dictatorship (when “they” decide who is in charge),
under the guise of “communism”.
Lets face it we know the world is nuts at the moment.
But this has got to take the biscuit, they say politicians would like to tax the air we breathe, well…………maybe they want to start with stopping us breathing first.
Cows farting, humans breathing, next evapo-transpiration?
What about a class action lawsuit against the EPA? If we could get, say 50,000,000 to contribute $1 each that would create quite a nightmare in the oval orifice.
How many years until we realize that Global Cooling is just on temporary hiatus by the normal, but short (17 years; 1980-1997) warm spell?
pat (22:42:01) : “I am frankly of the opinion that this woman may be mentally challenged. And I am not kidding. She sounds as if she got her ‘degree’ from Dairy Queen.”
Oh….I thought it was just me. Others see this too.
Some really, REALLY DIM people running world politics over the last number of years, no??
Different administration, different political agenda…..but one similarity:
Same lipstick….different pig.
Rise up…all you people of reason.
Stop their reign of stupidity….from one political polarization to another.
They all have one thing in common: dimness.
Dim people and admins should not be ruling the world.
Rise up.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
I really cry a lot inside for my country that has been going down the drain my entire 48 year life. We need to kick the UN and their Agenda 21 out of our country. Their brand of education just gives us this.
George Carlin ~ The American Dream
And this; Pathetic.
People sign petition to “increase inflation to 100%” to cause hyperinflation.
Great collection of quotes, Robbie.
This agenda is way, way bigger than fraudulent climate science and the ‘cap-‘n-tax’ scheme. And it’s a mistake to reduce it to a political battle between Democratic and Republican or liberal and conservative belief systems. In my opinion, the most interesting question right now is: How far down the rabbit hole is WUWT prepared to go?
paulhan (18:25:47) :
I felt physically sick watching that. I just wonder what will happen as temperatures continue to drop. How will they justify things then?
The answer is that theyll continue to use the flawed models and get the results they want.
Then theyll proclaim how they have saved us.
If we had the right to take up arms in the UK i think id be just about ready to.
TH (21:26:51) :
‘The winter of 2009-2010 in Colorado is already legendary. The cold and snow is unprecedented. It looks and feels like Siberia around here.
The “big lie” has come to America.’
Having lived in Leadville, Co back in the 70’s, record snow fall at Climax was around 450″ in one year. I can not recall the year, but it seems to me it was back in the 50’s or 40’s.
The EPA has moved to Springfield and is now headed by Crusty the Clown.
I’m not going to laugh at the antics of these nutjobs because where the US government “leads” on AGW the UK government follows so closely behind they’d require surgical separation.
At what point in this madness will the biggest GHG, H2O, be declared dangerous to life, limb and sanity?
“Scientific consensus shows that as a result of human activities, GHG concentrations in the atmosphere are at record high levels and data shows that the Earth has been warming over the past 100 years, with the steepest increase in warming in recent decades. The evidence of human-induced climate change goes beyond observed increases in average surface temperatures; it includes melting ice in the Arctic, melting glaciers around the world, increasing ocean temperatures, rising sea levels, acidification of the oceans due to excess carbon dioxide, changing precipitation patterns, and changing patterns of ecosystems and wildlife.”
How can anyone say this with a straight face? Can these statements be challenged in a court of law as they have actually been uttered by the US EPA?
Wayne Delbeke (21:48:33) :
“Andy – it was 38 below this morning. It is 30 below outside right now. I have burned about a half cord of wood today heating the house. All wood off my property that I grew. Does that make me carbon Neutral? Or if I lived in the US, I guess down the road I would be in trouble. (I also have a geothermal system for secondary heat and propane for back up hot water and a house with one foot thick walls to reduce heat loss.
Wander what Al Gore has in his waterfront Condo? Probably doesn’t care.
Wayne in Faraway”
Wayne, Yah heck sounds like your neutral there…….our condo doesn’t need heat until sustained -25C so maybe Jim Prentice could forward me a several grand a month cheque because apparently we’re cooling the planet now. The geothermal sounds like a good plan…..takin advantage of that 1-2 million deg C heat sink is always a good idee eh?
The Goracle? ..a direct dedicated transmission line to the nearest substation/ power plant. (maybe a couple solar cells & token wind fan on his roof to keep up appearances) I heard the Cat 3512 in his yacht burns biodiesel though….it just emits green soot, green CO2 & daisy petals.
What does “well mixed gases” mean and can the individual gases be considered pollutants individually? Even if the intention is to consider the gases together in order to deal with vehicles, at what point will someone file a lawsuit suggesting that the individual gases be regulated since they all mix in the “public” air – like, say, secondhand smoke.
In addition, do EPA findings affect other rules such as OSHA regulations? If they do, what are the implications for people working in large buildings with many employees exhaling all day – particularly since it is likely that the other gases mentioned in the findings may also be exuded from materials in the building?
If carbon dioxide can be considered a threat to public health and welfare in its own right, what about say, apple or orange orchards or wheat fields, which can potentially become major polluters at night (or come to think of it, even during the day). Or your front lawn.
For that matter, will homeowner associations be able to enforce regulations which require that front lawns be cut, since that will increase the pollutants in the neighbourhood.
What about zoos? Or schools? Or aerobic classes at gyms?
Can cyclists become polluters if they are riding too fast?
The devil will obviously be in the details, but the way the findings are written are vague enough that you can potentially stick it to your neighbour while they are doing something perfectly innocuous. Or at least, what used to be perfectly innocuous.
Nowhere in Article II Section 8 of the Constitution has the federal government been given the authority to even create the EPA. It is long past time to dismantle the onerous administrative agencies of the executive branch.
I hear on the news on SBS in Australia, the US has declared CO2 (Or in fact on SBS, GHGs) as harmful to humans.
I wonder what the US economy will look like when all air travel is banned, beer and fizzy-drinks is banned, all car-racing is banned, the automotive industry is torn down, coal plants are forced shut, all oil industry is halted, etc. etc… would this result in an end-all scenario? Not only for the US but it would completely collapse the world economy and most likely result in serious implications in political stability, even wars. I sure hope that this GHG-fascism is not allowed to triumph. Must be stopped.
Waving its fabricated IPCC figleaf, the US government has declared a climate emergency and imposed martial law.
I think we should tell them about di-hydrogen-monoxide and nitrogen, also dangerous to humans (when inhaled too much of it).
OK, too many comments to read thoroughly, so I hope this wasn’t brought up:
Shouldn’t someone with free time and a lawyer IMMEDIATELY sue everyone involved in the Copenhagen debacle, the cause being gross abuse of the planet by emitting GHGs that threaten the public health.
It can be shown that the amount of GHGs coming from this Copenhagen crap FAR exceed what any reasonable person would consider normal, and thus could potentially harm public health, according to the EPA.
Boy, that would be sweet, if you could ever get it to court. The only way the Cope Jokers could defend their actions would be to try to DISPROVE the EPA’s ruling..
Wishful thinking – I know.
Here’s a good comment on this:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100019206/climategate-barack-obamas-rule-by-epa-decree-is-a-coup-detat-against-congress-made-in-britain/
Meanwhile, savour this piece of news, announced today:
“Climate change advisers have decided that an extensive building programme at Heathrow — including the construction of a third runway — can proceed without jeopardising the Government’s carbon emissions targets.
The Committee on Climate Change will report today that 138 million extra passenger could use British airports in 2050, an increase of 60 per cent, without breaching government targets to reduce aviation emissions to below 2005 levels.”
Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6948138.ece
You couldn’t make it up …
Hi American Mates, message from Aussies down under: We hope you guys do all in your power to stop this new world government from forming to regulate CO2 – we had an ETS bill here that has just been defeated FOR THE SECOND TIME in our Senate – our Prime Minister could call a double dissolution election – that means all seats in parliament are declared vacant and we all go to the polls to vote. Our idiot PM won’t do that! He won’t give us the choice to make the decision because he knows WE DON’T WANT IT! We have a good economy here and we know we will be going down the hole if we vote for an ETS – our power bills will double, and imagine the costs passed on for everything else being produced using power… will stuff our economy completely… Our leader is trying to tell us porkies saying we won’t be paying for it… Our opposition leader got booted out last week and he has strong ties to Goldman Sachs who wants to do the derivatives trading on this CO2. It is another bank scam and you guys are already paying for the last one… Wake Up America!
Throw out your Star Spangled Banner and learn the new
NEW USA NATIONAL HYMMNS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH6Ajowgg4U&feature=related
Sorry, delete that second youtube-video.
Didn’t know the that German crap was goona appear above.
What’s all this banning talk here?
Kommisar Jackson will decide who gets banned and who doesn’t.
So be nice to her. Don’t be late with your protection money payments!
And now something for the idiots who may happen to hold a union card:
Wasn’t that nice?
So when do we start putting ip the murals of Kommrad Jackson and Obama, our Dear Leaders?
Two Plus Two = Five.
Wes T. (18:23:16) :
“Andy_ (18:08:27) :
Without a matching bill passed through the Senate this doesn’t really have any teeth, am i right???”
Unfortunately, that’s not correct. The Clean Air Act and Amendments grabs ‘pollutants’. Declaring GHGs an endangerment is the first step to officially calling them a pollutant. Then existing rules kick in to force the regulation.
============
One way to defang the EPA would be for a Sense of the House or Sense of the Senate resolution being passed that could express oppostion to one or more of the following:
To this EPA ruling,
Later on, to specific EPA rulings.
To the concept that CO2 is a pollutant within the meaning of the Act of Congress that the EPA is relying on.
In favor of there being a thorough scientific independent re-examination of the case for AGW. (This would be best, because it would be hardest for the Democrats to credibly oppose, especially in an election year.)
Probably these won’t be proposed until and unless the Republicans sense that this will be a winning issue for them in 2010. So far, it’s certainly one that has energized their base.
I thought America is a democratic country??
This seems more like what a dictator would do: ram through EPA legislation so that he can get through the NWO agenda at Copenhagen and impose a hefty tax on middle-class Americans.
Even the Australians were smart enough to avoid this (so far) by shooting down Rudd’s ETS bill.
Will Americans fight for their rights or bend down to the new dark lords?
Our good shepherds at work – insulated from public opinion, the voters, the marketplace, you and me: the rabble.
See “Climategate: The good shepherds”:
What is the best way to deal with this – a class action lawsuit, legislation overturning the regulation, or something else? I don’t honestly know but I want to support a good effort to deal with this. I will not allow the government to regulate my breathing.
–Mark
WASHINGTON – After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that greenhouse gases (GHGs) threaten the public health and welfare of the American people. EPA also finds that GHG emissions from on-road vehicles contribute to that threat.
Are they not duty bound to make the “scientific evidence” public?
From the 3rd paragraph – this says it all . . . Who is driving this and for what?
This continues our work towards clean energy reform that will cut GHGs and reduce the dependence on foreign oil that threatens our national security and our economy.
I sense we’re bending to a breaking point. Americans are already fighting a political war. If it gets martial, it will fragment our society. Skeptics vs. kool-aid drinkers with a healthy portion of hypnotized fools who bow to the personality cult or are still enamored of the historic first for the U.S.
The American colonists were curiously divided in loyalties: roughly 1/3 were loyalists, 1/3 were patriots, and 1/3 were indifferent.
I hope our citizenry (however diluted by the non-citizenry), is as stalwart as you Aussies at standing against the insanity.
P Gosselin (03:13:06) :
And now something for the idiots who may happen to hold a union card:
I hold a union card. What’s your problem with that?
The United States emits 5,752,289,000 metric tonnes of CO2 per year.
The US GDP is 14.2T (2008).
The US Budget is 2.9T (2008), representing 20.4% of the economy.
The US Federal Government employs 1.8 million people.
Using those values, one could estimate that the Federal government is responsible for 1,174,763,246 metric tonnes of CO2 emissions and that each employee is responsible for 652.6 tonnes annually.
5,752,289,000 * 20.4% = 1,174,763,246
1,174,763,246 / 1,800,000 = 652.6
Seems to me that we could cut our CO2 emissions by simply shrinking the size of the federal government. I recommend a goal of a 50% reduction and that we start with the EPA.
Blimey, the mods must be so tired they are letting stuff through on autopilot. Anthony already said he didn’t want that NAZI crap posting here. I agree.
The look she has as she makes her speech is a perfect example of the banality of evil.
george S: we aussies were 9/10ths convicts to begin:-)
the rebellious ones the pommies wanted begone:-)
then we got some free settlers,
also those who were gutsy and able to go it alone.
so although its taken far too long, there is a large groundswell of us who are really pissed off, and who will NOT go along to get along!
Krudd and Wrong are walking a very taught rope just now, and backing off from a double dissolution as they Know they will be outed real fast.. and the more we learn about the sneaky weasel words in Crapphagen agreements, and manage to keep it in circulation, the less chance they have of being able to come home IF they really are stupid enough to sign Australias freedom to govern away!
the classic Oxfam demanding more, story from NZ..well I have blogged it and will do my damndest to make it viral.
tha sudanese? chap at the gabfest saying 10 billion was an insult…and they wanted much more?..(.I spilt my coffee in rage,) … that piece of crass idiocy has been blogged too:-)
Did you all see that disgusting Copenhagen opening video, with the screaming child hanging from a tree as the waters rise around her??
Disgusting political propaganda.
If anyone finds a Youtube of it, please do post it.
.
Imagine when all trees and all other plants dies out beause of the CO2 pollution, the horror of it all…
This is not the ‘disgusting’ Copenhagen video I mentioned earlier, but another tearjerker from the AGW high priesthood.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8398510.stm
If anyone finds the disgusting one, with the child hanging from a tree, please post it.
.
If David Archibald is correct and we need more CO2 for human survival as the earth cools, there will be huge losses of population during this epoch. That is the perfect solution to the problem the “population cullers” (those who believe Galton and Malthus). If flu and other pandemics won’t work, let’s just cut the food supplies by cutting the CO2 available for crops….
Interesting, and from my viewpoint excellent, commentary by Gerald Warner in the UK Telegraph. He points out that in the US we still do have excellent protection afforded by our Constitution, but it is up to us to exercise those protections. Also a very good point that EPA regulation can be challenged by lawsuit. If I recall correctly the EPA needs to meet a high burden of proof that the item being regulated is an imminent threat to health or the environment. Given the fact that the EPA has leaned heavily on the research coming out of IPCC and CRU, I suspect they will have trouble if it comes to the courts. Maybe someone with more familiarity with the legal system and the burden of proof required of the EPA could add more regarding that.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100019206/climategate-barack-obamas-rule-by-epa-decree-is-a-coup-detat-against-congress-made-in-britain/
I apologize for not being able to shorten up the link, if the moderators or anyone else have any tips for me I’d appreciate it.
Thanks,
Charlie K
The term “greenhouse gas pollution” is in my view pseudo science.
It is irrelevant if CO2 might cause dangerous warming. It is pseudo science.
To term CO2 as a greenhouse gas pollutant is pseudo science.
If major policies are based in pseudo science then totalitarianism is not far away.
EPA Rulling = Mass Insanity!!
Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is Not Pollution
“CO2 for different people has different attractions. After all, what is it? – it’s not a pollutant, it’s a product of every living creature’s breathing, it’s the product of all plant respiration, it is essential for plant life and photosynthesis, it’s a product of all industrial burning, it’s a product of driving – I mean, if you ever wanted a leverage point to control everything from exhalation to driving, this would be a dream. So it has a kind of fundamental attractiveness to bureaucratic mentality.” – Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT
“CO2 is not a pollutant. In simple terms, CO2 is plant food. The green world we see around us would disappear if not for atmospheric CO2. These plants largely evolved at a time when the atmospheric CO2 concentration was many times what it is today. Indeed, numerous studies indicate the present biosphere is being invigorated by the human-induced rise of CO2. In and of itself, therefore, the increasing concentration of CO2 does not pose a toxic risk to the planet.” – John R. Christy, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alabama
“Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant but a naturally occurring, beneficial trace gas in the atmosphere. For the past few million years, the Earth has existed in a state of relative carbon dioxide starvation compared with earlier periods. There is no empirical evidence that levels double or even triple those of today will be harmful, climatically or otherwise. As a vital element in plant photosynthesis, carbon dioxide is the basis of the planetary food chain – literally the staff of life. Its increase in the atmosphere leads mainly to the greening of the planet. To label carbon dioxide a “pollutant” is an abuse of language, logic and science.” – Robert M. Carter, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental and Earth Sciences, James Cook University
“Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. On the contrary, it makes crops and forests grow faster. Economic analysis has demonstrated that more CO2 and a warmer climate will raise GNP and therefore average income. It’s axiomatic that bureaucracies always want to expand their scope of operations. This is especially true of EPA, which is primarily a regulatory agency. As air and water pollution disappear as prime issues, as acid rain and stratospheric-ozone depletion fade from public view, climate change seems like the best growth area for regulators. It has the additional glamour of being international and therefore appeals to those who favor world governance over national sovereignty. Therefore, labeling carbon dioxide, the product of fossil-fuel burning, as a pollutant has a high priority for EPA as a first step in that direction.” – S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia
“Carbon and CO2 (carbon dioxide) are fundamental for all life on Earth. CO2 is a colorless, odorless, non-toxic gas. CO2 is product of our breathing, and is used in numerous common applications like fire extinguishers, baking soda, carbonated drinks, life jackets, cooling agent, etc. Plants’ photosynthesis consume CO2 from the air when the plants make their carbohydrates, which bring the CO2 back to the air again when the plants rot or are being burned.” – Tom V. Segalstad, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental Geology, University of Oslo
“To suddenly label CO2 as a “pollutant” is a disservice to a gas that has played an enormous role in the development and sustainability of all life on this wonderful Earth. Mother Earth has clearly ruled that CO2 is not a pollutant.” – Robert C. Balling Jr., Ph.D. Professor of Climatology, Arizona State University
“Many chemicals are absolutely necessary for humans to live, for instance oxygen. Just as necessary, human metabolism produces by-products that are exhaled, like carbon dioxide and water vapor. So, the production of carbon dioxide is necessary, on the most basic level, for humans to survive. The carbon dioxide that is emitted as part of a wide variety of natural processes is, in turn, necessary for vegetation to live. It turns out that most vegetation is somewhat ’starved’ for carbon dioxide, as experiments have shown that a wide variety of plants grow faster, and are more drought tolerant, in the presence of doubled carbon dioxide concentrations. Fertilization of the global atmosphere with the extra CO2 that mankind’s activities have emitted in the last century is believed to have helped increase agricultural productivity. In short, carbon dioxide is a natural part of our environment, necessary for life, both as ‘food’ and as a by-product.” – Roy Spencer, Ph.D. Meteorology, Former Senior Scientist for Climate Studies, NASA
“I am at a loss to understand why anyone would regard carbon dioxide as a pollutant. Carbon dioxide, a natural gas produced by human respiration, is a plant nutrient that is beneficial both for people and for the natural environment. It promotes plant growth and reforestation. Faster-growing trees mean lower housing costs for consumers and more habitat for wild species. Higher agricultural yields from carbon dioxide fertilization will result in lower food prices and will facilitate conservation by limiting the need to convert wild areas to arable land.” – David Deming, Ph.D. Professor of Geology and Geophysics, University of Oklahoma
“Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. It is a colorless, odorless trace gas that actually sustains life on this planet. Consider the simple dynamics of human energy acquisition, which occurs daily across the globe. We eat plants directly, or we consume animals that have fed upon plants, to obtain the energy we need. But where do plants get their energy? Plants produce their own energy during a process called photosynthesis, which uses sunlight to combine water and carbon dioxide into sugars for supporting overall growth and development. Hence, CO2 is the primary raw material that plants depend upon for their existence. Because plants reside beneath animals (including humans) on the food chain, their healthy existence ultimately determines our own. Carbon dioxide can hardly be labeled a pollutant, for it is the basic substrate that allows life to persist on Earth.” – Keith E. Idso, Ph.D. Botany
“Atmospheric CO2 is required for life by both plants and animals. It is the sole source of carbon in all of the protein, carbohydrate, fat, and other organic molecules of which living things are constructed. Plants extract carbon from atmospheric CO2 and are thereby fertilized. Animals obtain their carbon from plants. Without atmospheric CO2, none of the life we see on Earth would exist. Water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide are the three most important substances that make life possible. They are surely not environmental pollutants.” – Arthur B. Robinson, Ph.D. Professor of Chemistry
So I wonder how the US government will be effected by this ruling. I’ll bet they are the largest “polluter” (what a joke btw) of CO2.
I guess all government employees will have to walk or use bicycles to do their work and no heating in government building, I would start by turning off the power to the EPA.
I need to vent some dispair…
The replication of the “Hockey Stick” graph using a phone book for input should have been enough.
The publishing of a volunteer study on weather station sitings by Anthony should have been enough.
The question over sparse tree ring data should have been enough.
The email and program comments tone from the UK should have been enough.
The voices of qualified scientists – even in some disagreement among themselves should have been enough.
There were warnings – there were enough.
The average person is too concerned with Tiger Woods latest fling, or what Beyonce is doing, or what’s on the latest soap opera.
Science and logic are only for “eggheads” any more – not workaday people.
IMO the “One World Government” talked about here will only be a stepping stone to total domination by China as the West bleeds itself to death in a vain attemp to change something it doesn’t and can’t effect.
Its getting cold in here…
Mike
Now that I’ve calmed down some…
The EPA decision is nothing more than a MAJOR SENATE DEFEAT for the Administration. If they had had the votes in the Senate, then the EPA ruling would not have been ncessary. Simple as that.
They have lost the political battle.
Thanks to climategate the bill died in the Senate.
Paul Z
“I thought America is a democratic country??”
Haven’t you heard? It’s now the USSA:
and the new national hymm is:
Start learning it! Come on Kommrads. join in!
A courtroom might be the best place to take this.
An open way to discredit the temperature record.
What an amazing development, and a bit worrying I would think for businesses owners and consumers. Is this the leverage Obama will use to force Congress to accept Cap and Trade?
Anyway, I shall return to reading the book Ecoscience by Obama’s Science Czar, where he advocates a “Planetary Regime”. Well, it WAS written more than a few years ago, so is probably an historical curiosity, an artifact if you will.
Now with fully scanned pages of relevant text:
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/
….a day that will live in infamy….
http://www.worldofquotes.com/docs/54/index.html
…or should ‘infamy’ read ‘insanity’?
I think EPA may have just shot Obama in the foot and have been too clever by half.
First, Obama is using the Executive-Branch EPA to impose an implicit threat against Congress. As Krauthammer said, Congress is considering “cap-and-trade” while the EPA is threatening just “cap”. Cap-and-trade is a proven hugely expensive boondoggle. But “cap” alone is a horrifyingly worse option.
Second, EPA’s mandate, from what I understand, is to regulate facilities producing 250 TPY of pollutants, about the size of an apartment block. That will break almost every real estate owner and commercial/industrial enterprise in America which must estimate, report and comply with the new regulations.
Third, knowing this, EPA will want to increase that to 25,000 TPY which will affect some 25,000-50,000 commercial and industrial enterprises. However, they can’t do that without an act of Congress. Congress would now be called upon to penalize the biggest enterprises in their state. Congress would have to legislate imposing those burdens on the enterprises which do the most hiring, firing, lobbying and political contributing in their state. Which they will be loathe to do. But to not give in to the EPA to increase that threshold will result in a nightmare for every component of this economy right down to individual residences.
Fourth, Congress has the option of imposing cap-and-trade. But that doesn’t affect the EPA’s self-imposed mandate. Imposing cap-and-trade means the EPA could still go ahead with acting on its findings to enforce emission limits if the cap-and-trade system doesn’t work, as it won’t. So the U.S. economy could get screwed by the cap-and-trade legislation, followed by the EPA-inflicted damage from its mandate.
Fifth, when that bonehead Jackson said she and Obama would they “support a legislative solution to the problem of climate change and Congress’ efforts to pass comprehensive climate legislation”, they let the cat out of the bag. Obama is now using what was ostensibly a scientific federal agency to threaten the legislative branch of government while Climategate is calling the entire AGW “consensus” into question.
Sixth, Congress now has a decision to make. If they bow to Obama, their re-elections are at big risk when the costs of cap-and-trade filter down but the CO2 reductions don’t drop. If they don’t impose cap-and-trade, they toss the whole issue back to Obama and his EPA. People won’t care if Congress didn’t “step up to the plate”. People will only remember who imposed the crippling restrictions on their means and standard of living. The horror stories will filter throughout the blogosphere and into the homes of all Americans. And Congress can also calculate that the EPA mandate could eventually be overturned by the courts. I think that Congress has a strong incentive to quash cap-and-trade and let Obama swing in the wind.
Finally, picking Pearl Harbor Day to decide to scuttle the entire American economy will reverbate through anyone old enough to know or care about that Day of Infamy. No American will ever forget the date of that “finding”. Pearl Harbor Day was the seminal event that tipped the U.S. fully into a world war to preserve our way of life. With no disrespect intended to those who fell on that terrible Day or later by invoking a parallel, the EPA’s decision has just accomplished the same – it has awakened a sleeping giant and will enrage this country.
We’re screwed.
Robbie (19:51:48) writes:
“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies
—————————————————
The Science Czar of the United Stated co-write a book with Ehrlich. I provided a link earlier. This is all just a silly coincidence though.
A couple last points:
The 25,000-50,000 enterprises that will get screwed by EPA will be so treated regardless of whether the threshold is 250 TPY or 25,000 TPY. So they’re going to be screwed and PO’d regardless of what threshold the EPA chooses.
The big enterprises pay big money to their corporate executives. But when their profit margins get clobbered by EPA mandates, corporate money available for payouts and perks will shrink or disappear. That will leave corporate leaders and boards of directors PO’d big time. Especially when they’re already the target for Obama’s confiscatory taxes to pay for the proposed health care bill or to finance the next stimulus package.
Very interesting. I await the lawyers, both here in the UK, where environmentalism has yet to be tested in court as a religion and in the States where a pleasing outcome has a better than 95% confidence level to my jaded eye.
Poptech (06:41:19) :
Lisa Jackson holds a masters in chemical engineering. She is better placed to pontificate on the efficacy, or lack thereof, of trace gases than any of the Exxon funded people you quote, except maybe the last, … or Fred, …. or all of them.
/lies
Charlie K (06:12:20) :
Among the url shortening websites http://bit.ly is my favorite, making your long url into
http://bit.ly/7omSTx
but http://tinyurl.com/ allows customization, turning your long url into
http://tinyurl.com/despotics
for example. Either one takes seconds and saves grief – just what Al invented Internet for.
Sorry America – it just gets worse, sadly where you lead others will soon follow.
BIG BREATHS
Since Young Pitt invented taxes
It’s been a legislative creed,
to divise a foolproof system
to shear the sheep ’till they near bleed.
then today I read a story
from the good old U S of A,
they will tax the air you breath
thanks to your thoughtful E P A.
It’s Obamas’ panacea
to cure our global warming mals,
dreamt up by crazy scientists
in great computer-game cabals.
every problem has an answer
old Yankee genius will prevail,
take a deep breath every morning
you won’t be taxed ’till you exhale.
you should have another party
on those historic Boston quays,
tell your unelected quangos
to stick their taxes where they please.
ask your numpty politicians
for once to hear your point of view,
ask them to show it’s possible
to have life – without CO2.
patrick healy
note for N.American readers
Numpty : Scottish word for ignorant or foolish person.
QUANGO : quasi autonomous non government organisation (Jobs for the boys on taxpayers money)
They recieved 360,000 comments which were studiously ignored unless they agreed with the pre concieved and decided notion.
@ D. King (20:38:03) :
“Roger Sowell (20:14:42) :
Do you think this will take care of California’s problem as well?”
Nope, having lived among the Californians since 1986, my conclusion is they are beyond all hope or help. Even though I do try to straighten out the mess that exists, the reality is that California (like an alcoholic) must experience a “bottom” or very low point, and only then find the resolve to make life better by staying away from “the stuff.” That bottom is not far off, IMHO.
California essentially declared CO2 a dangerous pollutant by enacting state law AB 32 in 2006. They did not use the identical language, but the effect is the same.
I am quite excited to see AGW theory stand real trial. This is exactly what is needed.
On December 7, 1941 America was attacked by an enemy bent on reducing America’s role in the world, killing many Americans and wrecking our economy.
On december 7, 2009 America was once again attacked by an enemy seeking to do exactly the same thing.
The only difference is that the new enemy is led by fanatic bureaucrats and corrupt scientists, and not fanatic Japanese military dictators.
There was a thread at Climate Audit (“EPA Quality Guidelines: the NAS Panel and IPCC” http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5818) just after the EPA had released their “Proposed Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings for Greenhouse Gases Under Section 202(a) of the Clean Air Act”. On that thread Joe Solters posted the following comment (#52):
“This thread on EPA’s tech findings is quite probably Steve’s most important contribution to the concept of a final conclusion linking AGW theory to direct action on CO2 remediation. Whatever EPA finally decides, it’s technical findings are subject to the Administrative Procedures Act. Under this law EPA has a very heavy, very specific burden to show that CO2, or any other GHG, actually cause real harm to human health. Citing studies performed by others, and not controlled directly by EPA, as its sole basis for technical conclusions is very unlikely to meet explicit procedural requirements of the law. Additionally, EPA is required to respond specifically to comments on its proposal. Like it or not, EPA’s gamble to rely excusively upon IPCC et al, data on an issue of this significance is not going to pass court review. Bottom line, the American public is paying EPA to conduct its own studies on AGW and provide for detailed public comment on each study.”
I wonder if it’s time for someone to notify Ms. Jackson of her problem?
Since Congress does a good job according to only about 20% of Americans, I understand that the bureaucrats think it is safe to throw them out. Good riddance. Who needs them.
And in Switzerland the bureacrats decided to get rid of the people because they do not vote as told. Bye, bye.
From the The First Global Revolution: A Report by the Council of the Club of Rome
Alexander King and Bertrand Schneider – 1991
Page 115
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. In their totality and in their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which demands the solidarity of all peoples. But in designating them as the enemy, we fall into the trap about which we have already warned, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
This EPA ruling represents a major political defeat for the Administration.
They were defeated in the Senate even before the bill showed up.
So now they have to resort to dictatorial decrees.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text
I don’t know if this is going to run…
“After a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comments…”
Yeah, right. Who do they think they’re kidding? This was a foregone conclusion based on politics, and nothing more. Yes, they “carefully considered” the public comments the same way I “carefully consider” each piece of junk mail I get, too, but first it goes into the ‘ground file’ (all paper), which then gets “considered” when I haul it all to be recycled, where it gets “considered” several more times on its way to becoming paper again (hopefully).
I find it quite ironic on how for the last 2 years , CO2 gas emissions were the number ONE threat to the population of the Earth .
Now that ClimateGate has proved Temperture and CO2 data to be falsified and/manipulated , the EPAis now jumping on the ‘ Greenhouse Gases ‘ bandwagan .
Simply Amazing !
Oh, the irony! Check this quote from Wikipedia.
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Sulfur hexafluoride was the tracer gas used in the first roadway air dispersion model calibration; this research program was sponsored by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and conducted in Sunnyvale, California on U.S. Highway 101.[1]
Re Previous post CO2 Mask.
On a CTV (Canada) story the EPA ruling was announced with a picture of a chinese women wearing a mask.
I emailed, and the picture has now been changed to show a picture of Lisa Jackson. That was Fun!
Pielke Jr has a great post, mentioning how his work was misused by the EPA (Do Sloppy Policiy Arguments Matter? Part I http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2009/12/do-sloppy-policy-arguments-matter-part.html). EPA is claiming that hurricanes damages grew dramatically in the 20th century, which Pielke claims his work does not say. This would make for great cross examination in a court of law!
P Gosselin (09:15:07): “This EPA ruling represents a major political defeat for the Administration. They were defeated in the Senate even before the bill showed up.
So now they have to resort to dictatorial decrees.”
It is possible that the EPA knows it will not get its CO2 regulations through the court system for several years if at all. The only reason they are announcing this now may be the administration trying to force Congress into action. I imagine everyone, even the “Greens”, are a bit scared of what the EPA might come up with if Congress doesn’t take the initiative away from them and regulate by law instead of fiat.
Ralph, the disgusting video with the girl hanging from the tree is Cop 15, above.
what a bs, thanks for the vid Eve.. i left my comment there ;]
To George S. (21:54:45):
The reason I’m sickened is that I was watching a Fox report on Copenhagen and I saw the video ( http://vodpod.com/watch/2649085-please-help-the-world-cop15-opening-film ) that they opened the conference with and the sheer size of the meeting (hall, delegates, breadth of it all, etc.) and it hit me…
..what a monster they have created.
The EPA announcement shows the depth of this “infection” ( per jamesafalk (18:15:46): ) and how critical it is for them to push this agenda through immediately. Videos like the one above manipulating children prove the cult like “at-all-cost” nature of the people involved.
The MSM (Anderson Cooper’s report tonight on CNN was criminal) is in lock step and fighting ferociously to maintain the AGW perception long enough for monster to become unstoppable.
It’s a sad 🙁 day !
And heres a couple quotes out of John Holdren’s (Obama’s Science Czar) book “Ecoscience”
“Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.”
“Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime—sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable, at least insofar as international implications exist. Thus the Regime could have the power to control pollution not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but also in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes that cross international boundaries or that discharge into the oceans. The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade, perhaps including assistance from DCs to LDCs, and including all food on the international market. ”
“If this could be accomplished, security might be provided by an armed international organization, a global analogue of a police force. Many people have recognized this as a goal, but the way to reach it remains obscure in a world where factionalism seems, if anything, to be increasing. The first step necessarily involves partial surrender of sovereignty to an international organization.”
“The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries’ shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits.”
“Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock.”
I hope people start to understand just what all of these clowns in Copenhagen believe in, and what their intentions are before its to late.
Join Patriotic Resistance here
http://www.resistnet.com/
You know, reading that EPA blurb made me realise what science has become – vacuous.
What’s waiting at the EPA next week? H2O …the hidden menace, Aspens?…big wavy twigs or world domination? Plankton … friend or foe? Tidal forces.. is the Moon green cheese or a rotten heart? Coming up after the break…Oxygen?.. corrosion or life? Have your say by dialling 0800-OXYGEN-VOTE
We only assume that a bigger brain is an advantage in the wacky world of evolution. I think the EPA are demonstrating the flaw in that assumption.
What will fossil hunters, a couple of hundred million years from now, make of it all? Beds of fossilised apes huddled together surrounded by unburned fuel. Ha ha .. work that one out future dominant species.
Robbie (19:53:30) :
By and large I think you may be preaching to the choir hereabouts. Your post should stand though as some may not have heard his words. Many (not here) have suggested that his diseased mind is all better now but as you can see he has simply kept his mouth shut for a while in order to get a better position.
Not being a US citizen I didn’t have much of an opinion regarding Obama becoming President. Another day another President kind of attitude. Having watched the kind of advisor’s he has taken aboard though I think panic should have been the more appropriate response.
Holdren is something that should have been tried at Nuremberg and promptly dispensed with yet here he is advising the US President. He was and is a gruesome individual. That he has the ear of Obama and Obama hasn’t dispensed with him a long time ago is a very worrying situation. If I carry on with my true views of Holdren I will be severely snipped by the mods (if I haven’t been already)
What is more worrying is that here in the UK our Government seems to pick up the same kind of “science advisor”. If you want a taste just google “uk science advisor” for a very long list of “wack jobs”. Dangerous doesn’t begin to describe these people and “science” would do well to distance itself from them. If the messy stuff hits the fan, all of “science” will carry the sins of these people if they have not moved to another room.
I know this link is on other threads, but for those who haven’t seen it yet, Lord Monckton rips them all a new A-hole, and by name too:
http://www.cfact.tv/2009/12/07/lord-monckton-on-climategate-at-the-2nd-international-climate-conference/
It is so apparent that his language is now litigation-proof. He looks like he’s asking them to sue him for libel/slander (if they dare come out of hiding). Go for it CROOKS, he’s waiting for you.
Thanks Whistleblower with a capital “W”.
Americans have been hit with the equivalent Pearl Harbour sneak attack (as mentioned before note the same date) and don’t even know it. More to come at Copenhagen me thinks.
The Globalists are dancing in the street. Climate gate, who cares, they can do anything they want, for any reason real or contrived, and nobody can stop them. They create peoples reality with lies and distortion of the truth, so the lie becomes the truth.
I LOL at an earlier comment about faith in the courts to reign in EPA, esp given it was the courts who ruled that EPA should regulate CO2 if they found it harmful to people-most public buildings have CO2 levels at 3000 ppm or more, and outside air is under 400, maybe 600 or so by the road in the cities. So what kind of science deems CO2 harmful to man? . Voodoo Science.
Such is the way the world works. It’s almost funny if it was not so tragic.
Unfortunately the UK, Europe, and America have something in common,
the populations appear to be made up of,
lilly brained sheepeople.
They do and believe what they are told to.
funny..sort of, for what the subjects is..
in english:-) always a bonus
To pft and Derek:
Check out the video series online “Century of the Self”, produced by the BBC around 2002, I think. It talks about the history of public relations (PR). I think it will explain a lot of what we’re seeing. Note that COTS is biased towards the social democratic perspective, but it’s still worth viewing.