The Chinese civilization has existed survived intact far longer than any other in human history, and they have records of that civilization that span 2-3 thousand years BC. They’ve seen more climate change than any other civilization.
The Guardian recently interviewed Xiao Ziniu, the director general of the Beijing Climate Center.
Excerpts:
A 2C rise in global temperatures will not necessarily result in the calamity predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), China’s most senior climatologist has told the Guardian.
He had this bit of wisdom to pass along:
“There is no agreed conclusion about how much change is dangerous,” Xiao said. “Whether the climate turns warmer or cooler, there are both positive and negative effects. We are not focusing on what will happen with a one degree or two degree increase, we are looking at what level will be a danger to the environment. In Chinese history, there have been many periods warmer than today.”
He added:
“Climate prediction has only come into operation in recent years. The accuracy of the prediction is very low because the climate is affected by many mechanisms we do not fully understand.”
We would do well to listen.
More important, we should take note of the fact that China laughs in the face of the west when it comes to regulating their own economy through self imposed emissions goals, while the west cuts back its manufacturing capability, China surges forward.
Nixon awakened a sleeping giant. They’ll squish us like a bug economically and in many other areas. For example China just this week broke ground on a fourth space launch complex.
China will likely go to the moon before the US returns there, perhaps as early as 2014. Meanwhile they aren’t worried about anything, whether it be the atmospheric or the political climate.
In looking at this map from the Beijing Climate Center, it is notable how they see things differently.
Robert E. Phelan (08:36:47) :
skb (01:09:40)
TonyB (12:31:30) :
(and Anthony of course)
Thank you all. I come here for an education and you have not let me down.
I think though that we are trumped by Boudu (04:24:10) ‘s original Australians.
Benjamin: “But I wouldn’t say Western government scientists are immersed in lies and corruption.”
No, but many sceptics would claim that they are, and subject their claims to intense scrutiny, yet give a free pass to non-Western scientists who are climate sceptics but also government-funded.
It seems to me that there is a double standard at play here, in that the two groups are treated differently according to their views on climate.
REPLY: Much like AGW’s Alarmists being treated as “heroes” and skeptics being treated like holocaust deniers. Brendan you aren’t going to win this one, bugger off. – Anthony
Boundu (04:24:10).
“Be interesting to explore their verbal histories for accounts of climate change.” (referring to Australian Aborigines).
My understanding is that the story of the ‘Rainbow Serpent’ originated from the melt following the Younger Dryas. Sea levels rose by 120metres and flooded many river ‘exits’ around the world giving rise the ‘drowned river valleys’ form that we see around the world. Sydney harbour and Kakadu National park are examples of this, being passed into legend as part of the Rainbow Serpent story. This flooding also produced the current river ‘Delta’ formation as we see the the Amazon, Nile and Mekong rivers pushed back inland due to rising sea levels over the past 10kyrs. Rivers do not normally form a Delta, only if they are pushed into it by rising sea levels and gentle landform slopes.
This interesting sea level rise effect, that makes me look at every river exit with new eyes, was discussed in Stephen Oppenheimer’s book ‘Eden in the East, The Drowned Continent of South East Asia”.
I guess you saw at the bottom of the page you can email “Questions for James Hansen”. A few thousand questions wouldn’ hurt?
Phil’s dad,
Unfortunately, much of what is presented as Australian aboriginal culture and history is little more than fiction crafted for our politically correct times.
I recommend the following first hand account of a woman who lived 30 years with the last aboriginals of southwest and south Australia.
The Passing of the Aborigines (1938)
A Lifetime spent among the Natives of Australia
Author: Daisy Bates, C.B.E. (1859?-1951)
Link to ebook
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400661.txt
Geez, next time I’ll include a hyperlink 😉
Cheers
Philip_B (00:46:34) : said
“Phil’s dad,
Unfortunately, much of what is presented as Australian aboriginal culture and history is little more than fiction crafted for our politically correct times.”
That leaves me the winner then, where do I go to collect my very big prize? Anthony can have 25%.
tonyb
I’d like to hear more from China and their professionals please. Great post thanks.
Anthony: “Brendan you aren’t going to win this one, bugger off. – Anthony”
This is not about winning. It’s about a lack of critical thinking in favouring the views of a climate scientist because his opinions are congenial to you.
Brendan H (00:45:51) :
This is not about winning. It’s about a lack of critical thinking in favouring the views of a climate scientist because his opinions are congenial to you.
Great. Another DBT. You’ve obviously not been reading this thread or you’d know that most of us recognize the Chinese conflict of interest. If you were knowledgeable about China at all you would recognize that Dr. Xiao was, in a sense, speaking out of class. The official Chinese position is that GHG are a serious threat to the environment but since they were emitted by Western nations it is up to the West to clean them up. They are arguing that their contribution to the problem is minor and that the West merely wants to hold their progress and development back. The Chinese will be cheering us on at Copenhagen to commit economic suicide while they plot to take over the world.
Develop a little critical thinking of your own, boyo.
Now the UN’s “climate chief” says that China is “poised” to lead the world on the issue – the article is about China and India “announcing plans” rather than anything actually done yet, but it’s relevant.
Brendan H (21:30:22) :
“It seems to me that there is a double standard at play here, in that the two groups are treated differently according to their views on climate.”
Brendan, you’re mistaken about a double standard. A scientist is praised when they respect the evidence. Likewise, sceptics must change their view when/if the evidence no longer supports their scepticism. Until then, there is by necessity going to be a growing divide between the warmists and the sceptics. Such is the nature of conflict, of life and progress. Accept it, then make a decision whether you take it or leave it, because by the nature of conflict, conflict can’t be what anyone wants it to be, therefore will not adhere to anyone’s demands that it behave otherwise.
Robert E Whelan: “You’ve obviously not been reading this thread or you’d know that most of us recognize the Chinese conflict of interest.”
A handful of posters have referred to a conflict of interest. But that’s not my point. Rather, it’s the double standard in applying “wisdom” to the views of one particular scientist while others are branded as immersed in lies and corruption.
Xiao Ziniu is no doubt a career scientist, funded by his government to research climate. But we hear no accusations of funding corruption, lust for power and control, careerism, peer pressure, hidden agendas, cooked data, cultism, and fraud.
There’s a marked dearth of scepticism when a climate scientist expresses views that are congenial to scepticism. That’s what I call a double standard.
Gee, I am really shocked that people here know so little about China. The Chinese are nice people, but they really have no idea about their own history, much less to be concerned about records from Old China. Every generation seems to destroy the past generations knowledge. It’s a kind of self-hatred that is sometimes expressed in extreme nationalism.
China may someday lead the world, but not in the backwards way some of you tend to think it will.
Ron de Haan (19:41:06) :
“Hopefully Xiao Ziniu has some political contacts”.
After hearing the Speech of HU Jintao adressing the UN Climate Week today the answer
must be “NO”.
The Chinese Government has obviously bought the hoax and prepares to “jump” too.
Benjamin: “Brendan, you’re mistaken about a double standard.”
I don’t think so. There is a general view among climate sceptics that government scientists are corrupted because they are funded from the public purse. The Beijing Climate Center is a government-funded body. Interestingly, its parent body, the National Climate Center, is described as an “indendendent entity”, although one of its management bodies is the Office of the Chinese Communist Party Committee.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not claiming that Xiao Ziniu is a corrupt scientist because he heads a government-funded scientific body. However, we have seen plenty of allegations of lies and corruption from climate skeptics who seem convinced that government-funded science is the sure road to perdition.
And yet, this government-funded scientist is praised for his “wisdom”. Sounds like a double standard to me.
Live interview with the Chinese ambassador: click