Here’s an excerpt of an AP story posted on Brietbart by President Obama’s science advisor, John Holdren, suggesting putting particulate matter into the air to reflect sunlight.
It seems like we’ve already tried that and then cleaned it up in the last century.
Excerpt:
The president’s new science adviser said Wednesday that global warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical technologies to cool Earth’s air.
John Holdren told The Associated Press in his first interview since being confirmed last month that the idea of geoengineering the climate is being discussed. One such extreme option includes shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun’s rays. Holdren said such an experimental measure would only be used as a last resort.
“It’s got to be looked at,” he said. “We don’t have the luxury of taking any approach off the table.”
Full story here
Note to commenters, while this is a political story also, please keep the discussion limited to the science. – Anthony
h/t to Mark Danner
Obama has no choice but to publicly accept whatever the ‘consensus’ is regarding climate change. Remember, much of his popularity in America and abroad comes from his message of collaboration with European authorities and the United Nations. We will probably never know what he really thinks about climate change, although we all suspect that he really believes in AGW.
If Obama becomes suspicious of AGW, I don’t think that he will publicly express his doubts unless the IPCC does so as well, which is unlikely in the next 4 yrs. However, he may well decide to delay or minimize expensive energy policies, blaming his obfuscation on the economy.
On the other hand it might be that Holdren ha seen a vision of the truth: no heat down the pipe.
Offering the geoengineering option solves the political problem: “look we are getting ready to intervene if it is necessary”, to all those voters,and an out for the president from all the high promises of tackling the climate.
Actually I think humans should study how to avoid ice ages too, since an ice age is the only inevitable prophecy and demonstrably CO2 does not have the strength and sensitivity to stop even a cooling PDO.
“Dr. David Sackett, a pioneer of “evidence-based medicine,” where results from clinical trials rather than anecdotes are used to guide physician practice, famously said, “Half of what you’ll learn in medical school will be shown to be either dead wrong or out of date within five years of your graduation; the trouble is that nobody can tell you which half —…..”
This is a bit glib and designed to shake students out of their complacency. The key to any science based course,biological,meteorological or other, is a good thorough grounding in the basic sciences. In my profession,the materials change,often rapidly, but the science behind them and its biological compatibility can be figured out.
Climate science is based in the physical sciences ,Lovelock mixed with it with biology with varying success.
Holdren was talking about the “upper atmosphere,” so presumably those of us here below wouldn’t be affected by smog, and the particles would eventually precipitate out by forming the nucleus of raindrops.
JFH wrote:
“GM and Segway are planning an electric scooter built for two and Obama wants to cut out fossil fuels. Does this mean the UHI effect will begin to diminish in about 10 years and all the temperature data will have to be adjusted in some unspecified manner? Just asking?”
Heat from the exhaust of passing autos is a minor factor (5%?) in the UHI effect, so a shift to Segways wouldn’t make an impact. Most of the UHI effect is due to nearby masonry or asphalt heat sinks (roads, buildings, and roofs-beneath-weather-stations), or to stationary heat sources like air conditioner exhausts, chimneys, sewage treatment plants, etc. (I’ve probably missed a few.)
Mark T, just wanted to point out that the army corps of engineers tried to fix the levees in New Orleans for 5 years before Katrina, but were blocked by “environmental groups”. As a Canadian, I am always impressed by the interstate highways in the U.S. Was just wondering if you could tell me who maintains these to such a high standard. Wish they worked on our highways, ……
@FatBigot (20:08:42) :
New learnings? I guess not.
Might also remind people on a massive experiment almost 20 years ago. When the armed forces of Iraq withdrew from kuwait they gave the term “Scorched Earth” a whole new meaning.
Global temperatures would drop, worldwide effects on health and enviroment, it would take decades to put all fires out, and so on.
It did not work quite the way that some had predicted, the effects where rather limited, only local and it certainly did not take decades to put the fires out, more a matter of months, in fact when the last well was put out it was actually one that was set on fire again because it was on a more convinient spot (closer to the city, no unexploded bombs and mines).
And now this mister Holdren want’s to do this on a global scale, all he has to do is to make the president to push the big red button labeled “Armageddon”.
I agree with Robert Wood and think we should use this foolish suggestion against these nuts leading us. Not only remove the scrubbers but demand they immediately open up reserved lands for coal mining and build coal plants to increase our output of soot and electricity! We’ll need the electricity no matter which path they take, especially if it gets colder. How can they argue against their own suggestion? It’s been clear for a long time that the cleaning of our skies would have to allow more sunlight to penetrate to the earth’s surface, causing much more long wave radiation and surface heating. I thought we had scientists who knew these facts working in our government. I guess I didn’t pay attention in school and learned the real facts.
Holdren should fly to North Dakota and have a town hall meeting where he explains that he wants to make it colder.
He just needs to make sure that he has the Secret Service with him.
This is the definitely a worst case scenario. We’re already in a period of cooling and then we take action to exacerbate the situation. It’s one thing to saddle our children with $20K debt even before they are born; it’s a far different thing to bring on an ice age.
Steven Goddard wrote: “Holdren should fly to North Dakota and have a town hall meeting where he explains that he wants to make it colder. He just needs to make sure that he has the Secret Service with him.”
Haha nothing like juxtaposing the foolishness against the obvious. Bravo.
David Ball (20:35:34) :
Mark T, just wanted to point out that the army corps of engineers tried to fix the levees in New Orleans for 5 years before Katrina, but were blocked by “environmental groups”.
Yes, but their meddling is the reason several towns had to relocate in the early 90s because they tried to hard to constrain the Mississippi River. I suppose you get the good with the bad.
Anyway, my point wasn’t as much an attack as it was more of a “here again we have the ACoE trying to re-engineer the planet” toungue-in-cheeck.
As a Canadian, I am always impressed by the interstate highways in the U.S. Was just wondering if you could tell me who maintains these to such a high standard. Wish they worked on our highways.
Hehe, apparently you don’t drive them much, eh? 🙂 Department of Transportation. I think each state has one and the government funds them to do the work. They are always under construction, however. I-25, which runs N/S in CO is currently being widened to 3 lanes for most of the trek between CO Springs and Denver. The part across our city took several years, and somehow they are working on it again near Garden of the Gods Rd. (Pkwy?). It’ll probably take 25 years to complete. Perpetual cone dodging in the mean-time.
Mark
When they say they will “look at it”, it probably means they are going to do it.
It will backfire horribly, and the survivors will surely hang the offending Dr. Frankensteins who had no business playing Mad Scientist with the lives of every human being on Earth.
Beware.
Perhaps they mean to reduce the Earth’s population a wee bit.
Like about 50%.
GeoCide.
Global Genocide, just add chemicals.
Better living through chemistry.
MarkT, agreed. In Canada, we have only 2 seasons. Winter and Construction. :^) I invite you to take a road trip on the Trans-Canada Highway through Saskatchewan. You may gain a much better appreciation for your own road ways. I was under the impression that the ACoE were the ones who maintained the Interstate routes, as they are of strategic importance. I am I incorrect in this assumption? Always eager to update cerebral files.
Just like the Bomb, once they had it, it got used.
Now that there is an opportunity (they think) to use it, they will.
What I have not seen in any of this: Getting the Genie back in the Bottle.
Once GeoEngineering of the Climate to cool the Earth has taken place, they have no way to
undo the effects, i.e. – no way to to re-warm the planet.
To hell in a handbasket.
It will work, they will cool the Earth, but there’s no going back.
If it is the wrong thing to do, there will be hell to pay on Earth.
Here we are heading into a Grand Solar Minimum, policy has gotten hold of science, and judgement is opaque.
This business of purposefully blotting out the sun…isn’t that what they did in “The Matrix”?
I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had, during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure. – Agent Smith
Thanks for changing the title; which looks much more like the original declaration now.
Not once yet have i seen the word “chemtrails” used. Was that not an attempt at geo-engineering of SOME sort?
It was release of aerosols form planes, containing many combinations of chemicals, including boron (?)
It created a misty haze, which essentially shut out sunlight, as well as apparently disturbing weather patterns.
I suspect chemtrails are the result of testing how well the wide-area dispersion of anti-microbial agents would work in response to a massive bio-terror attack on the US. I suspect such an attack is what a few gov’t. officials like Biden, Cheney, and Tommy Thompson hinted at a few months back.
And in other news … Fleas claim victory as Dog turns right ..
Flanagan (11:28:57) :
Is it ok if I summarize things like that:
– Holdren never said the sentence which is proclaimed in the title
– He only said that at
I don’t often agree with Flanagan, but he has a point here.
Stick to the science rather than mis-attributed soundbites.
However, this doesn’t change the fact that Holdren has some half baked ideas of his own.
Okay, let’s take the scrubbers off the coal power plants.
No, wait, China’s already done that, and they do more CO2 than we do.
Maybe take them off the cement plants, then.
Or we could re-light the oil fields in Kuwait.
I’d still rather send some mylar mirrors out to L4 and L5, with ion drives to keep them from blowing away while we wait for the Maunder.
Not once yet have i seen the word “chemtrails” used. Was that not an attempt at geo-engineering of SOME sort?
It was release of aerosols form planes, containing many combinations of chemicals, including boron (?)
It created a misty haze, which essentially shut out sunlight, as well as apparently disturbing weather patterns.
P.S. – Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!
I personaly wonder just how much of this is that they know we are headded for a minimum and want to do something to make it look like they were the solution, not mother nature. If it were well known (and according to poll numbers there are a bunch of skeptics out there) then the scheme would be unveiled (sorta like the stock market crash unveiled Madoff)
Its not fully understood and can not be predicted long term , but lets give it a poke and see what happens mmmmmm use a long stick.