Here’s an excerpt of an AP story posted on Brietbart by President Obama’s science advisor, John Holdren, suggesting putting particulate matter into the air to reflect sunlight.
It seems like we’ve already tried that and then cleaned it up in the last century.
Excerpt:
The president’s new science adviser said Wednesday that global warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical technologies to cool Earth’s air.
John Holdren told The Associated Press in his first interview since being confirmed last month that the idea of geoengineering the climate is being discussed. One such extreme option includes shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun’s rays. Holdren said such an experimental measure would only be used as a last resort.
“It’s got to be looked at,” he said. “We don’t have the luxury of taking any approach off the table.”
Full story here
Note to commenters, while this is a political story also, please keep the discussion limited to the science. – Anthony
h/t to Mark Danner
“Things are worse than they can possibly be.”
How does that work, then? Are secretaries of state no longer even literate?
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
“Last year we said, ‘Things can’t go on like this’, and they didn’t, they got worse”
Will Rogers
Reply: Would be flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics, but it’s funny~ charles the moderator
How are they going to get enough tons of junk up there to block the sun? Is there anything that man could do to compete with even a small volcano?
What is so “dire” about Global Warming that such extreme measures must be considered NOW? I think that the Ogallala going dry should be a far greater concern for the US, and that is a certainty in that it will happen, and there is nothing that can stop it, and global warming/cooling will not help it, unless the climate does change to make it just just right for dry land farming.
World has been hotter, and its been colder, life soldiered on, but without water there is no life.
I thought that particulates was one of the main problems with coal. Is this the same crowd that went nuts over the proposal to seed the south Pacific with iron in order to increase the amount of life there, and to thus capture and remove more CO2?
These folks are dangerous.
Adam (London, England) says:
Surely, you are wrong. Since most CFCs are produced in the Northern Hemisphere, I am sure that the Ozone hole over the Arctic would have to be bigger than the one over the Antarctic.
It is probable that in order to avoid panic the MSM have been covering up the fact of the large Ozone hole over the Arctic.
I have written in the past how wrong it is for man to attempt to play God. To me even seeding clouds is essentially wrong. When man ’steals’ moisture / precipitation from the atmosphere then the course of natural events is interrupted. The natural destination of the precipitation is then denied it.
One thing that we know for certain; man has a tendency to play God and his actions have unintended consequences. Face it… we are not as smart as we think we are. We do not understand nature and the climate as well as some think we do.
Regarding the thought of injecting particulates into the atmosphere;
What happens if they successfully did so and directly following the is a natural large volcanic eruption? They would have no way of knowing that nature, via the eruption, was going to alter the climate. Put man playing God together with the natural infusion of particulates into the atmosphere and what is the result? Cooling far below what nature intended. Potentially rapid and deep cooling. A deadly event.
So when can we start construction on giant atmosphere processing stations like the one on LV-426?
Can I ask some one to inform the American President that there are other countries in the world apart from America sharing this planet. Can we have a say? Please? (or we wont keep on lending you our money!)
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
Cloud seeding has been practiced over Colorado for many years to try to bring more rain to the plains. It really hasn’t been that effective.
Volcanoes are effective, so I think it would take a volcano size nuclear bomb (2-300 megatons) covered with what ever type of material you wanted in the atmosphere. Then set the thing off!…do that often enough and your bound to help the weather!
Oh ya, fallout? maybe engineer a clean bomb, no problem!
I’m still trying to deal with -” the discusion on Global Warming is over.” I wonder if thats what they said to Galileo when he was placed under house arrest for saying the Earth was not the center of the universe. What are these folks up too?
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
As well as just America, can the American President cool the air above my hometown of Brisbane Australia from November through to March? It gets pretty hot during those months!
One other item, The political blogs are saying that Congress has killed Cap and Trade, looks like maybe some sanity returning to our elected representatives here in the United States.
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
John Coleman testifies before the Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands (from ICECAP)…
Testimony of John Coleman to the Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands April 7
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Testimony_of_John_Coleman.pdf
SurfaceStations is cited in the testimony.
I come before this Subcommittee with no allusions or expectations. I am aware that for the majority of the Committee and most involved government officials my conclusions will run counter to your interests and agenda and will be ignored. None-the-less, I have made the effort to be here today because I feel what I have to contribute should at least be in the record.
Here is what I know as scientific fact: There is no significant man-made global warming or climate change at this time, there has not been any in the past and there is little reason to fear any in the future.
didn’t we just spend gazillions of dollars cutting SO2 emissions because they were implicated in causing acid rain? does the president’s science advisor not know that?
this all feels more and more like alice’s wonderland.
This post is silly. The people who are pushing the most for global warming are the ones who hate this idea the most. The agenda isn’t combatting global warming, it is controlling people’s lives.
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
Re “last century”, yeah and the one before. Read about Pittsburgh, St. Louis, etc, particularly when wood burning was the primary source of house heating.
I’ve always wondered if the last thirty year warming trend line is significantly steeper (which gives an artificially alarming view of the future since it is that trend line which is being extrapolated forward) than it should be because we got rid of a whole lot of man-made “global dimming” starting in the 1970s by both pollution control and the collapse of the USSR.
On the other hand, China still has that process to go thru. . .
I will concur with those who have said that if the administration actually pursues this, they will use this to take credit for the coming cooling -which they have nothing to do with. I am guessing they probably recognize the true cyclical nature of temperature variation & are figuring out how to exploit the next cool cycle to their benefit (heros that saved us from burning up).
Cynical? Maybe.
True? Maybe.
Chance of implimentation? Next to none.
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
John F. Hultquist (13:34:19) :
“Scientific American magazine recently ran an article about this sort of thing. The costs are unbelievable high and the prospects of success unbelievable low.
O/T Now for an off topic question: GM and Segway are planning an electric scooter built for two and Obama wants to cut out fossil fuels. Does this mean the UHI effect will begin to diminish in about 10 years and all the temperature data will have to be adjusted in some unspecified manner? Just asking?”
John, I’ve just read that the carbon footprint of an electric vehicle including the battery swaps is bigger than driving a Hummer.
So don’t worry too much.
“Now, let’s compare the electric car to a similar but gasoline powered car. According to Lotus the Elise should get 21mpg city/27 highway or 24 mpg average. Spending the same $8,000.00 the gasoline powered Elise has a range of 48,000 miles @ur momisugly $4.00 per gallon gasoline. At $3.00 per gallon for fuel the range is increased to 64,000 miles and, by paying the taxes for the gasoline, you have also paid the state for the right to use its roads. The Obama Administration will fix this mathematical flaw by making sure that gasoline returns to a minimum of $4.00 gallon.
This is why electric cars are not feasible economically. Despite the fact that the government is giving buyers $30,000.00 tax dollars to make the Tesla more attractive, reducing its initial cost to $79,000.00 from $109,000.00. These cars cost more to operate, they pollute more than a Hummer when you figure in the costs of mining, recycling, charging, transportation, replacement, etc. of the battery pack”.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/more_electric_car_follies_1.html
Wouldn’t the best way to achieve this be to remove the particulate extractors from our coal power station chimneys??
“”” Don B (12:48:28) :
Obama is a bright, high IQ person, but he has surrounded himself with “science” advisors who are over-the-edge believers in the carbon dioxide warming theory, so there is no chance he will hear contrary views from within the administration. He will only be told realistic climate facts by political opponets, whom he will automatically not believe. What can start the enlightenment? “””
What is your scientific basis for making such a claim; “bright high IQ ” since his entire scholastic records have been sealed and are available to no-one; not even how he paid for any education he ever received (if any).
It’s not a very scientific analysis, but I would say we have never had a dumber person elected to the White House. So he thinks the people in Austria, including his Austrian Government hosts actually speak “Austrian”.
He tells the Scottish Prime Minister of the United Kingdom how special is the US relationship with “England” and how much he admires their Queen.
Telling a Scotsman you like “their” Queen is like telling Iranian President AmandaJihad that you like King Richard (the Lion Hearted). I happen to like the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and Northern Ireland; but most Nationalistic good Scotsman have a different view.
So I would say that the current marionette in the white House, is about the dumbest person to ever live there; but then American States chose him for their leader; so he is my President too. Which doesn’t mean I have to agree with his ideas.
Holdren is a known radical. and if you think Dr Hansen is a bit daft; he’s a genius compared to Holdren; so get used to a lot of pseudoscientific mayhem from him, and also the new EPA Czarina.
Anybody working on any real science that is grant funded by the Federal Government; in whatever field; ought to be quite angry by the misapplication of valuable research funds. I don’t happen to be in that boat; and I make no value judgements of the merits of those that do and their projects. Time will tell if their funds were well spent; but this boondoggle is going to hit them, before it hits me; so if you are one of those scientists; you have a stake in this too. My only stake is the destruction of the credibility of science in the eyes of the people who used to look up to us; and are being let down by run amok hoodlums.
We barely have scratched the surface of explaining how this chaotic ocean/atmosphere system even works; and people are talking about re-engineering a system that nobody understands fully; and have an unlimited budget to try and do that.
Reply: Flagged for possible deletion because contents not discussing the science, but politics ~ charles the moderator
Adolfo Giurfa (13:50:15) :
“Ron de Haan: Hope you keep on updating your list each week, with a new one, so Dr.Holdren won´t have to worry about”.
Adolfo,
It’s only because the Dalton and Maunder Minimum were characterized by
seismic and volcanic activity and a solar minimum that makes me focus on volcanic eruptions.
I really think that under the current circumstances of a negative PDO, a negative AMO
a solar minimum and rising ice cover we are only a single VE7 eruption away from disaster in terms of food availability.
If you have a look at http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ you will see that there is quite a lot of sesmic activity as well.
That’s all.
Pineapples! We should try pineapples!
No thanks needed….Just happy to help!
Oh Robert – the elegance! 🙂
A.Syme (14:24:26) :
“Cloud seeding has been practiced over Colorado for many years to try to bring more rain to the plains. It really hasn’t been that effective.
Volcanoes are effective, so I think it would take a volcano size nuclear bomb (2-300 megatons) covered with what ever type of material you wanted in the atmosphere. Then set the thing off!…do that often enough and your bound to help the weather!
Oh ya, fallout? maybe engineer a clean bomb, no problem!”
A.Syme,
Look at the SO2 dispersion model from Redoubt here: http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/08apr09/gome2_so2_anim_big.gif?PHPSESSID=1j6k0tdgjffrfgr7lt4mr784b5 and the rain clouds here: http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=rss&article=1
Is this a coincidence?
Ok. So no one got the terraforming fusion powered Atmospheric Processing Station LV-426 Aliens reference.
Reply: Yes we did ~ charles the moderator