Shocker: Huffington Post carries climate realist essay

Congratulations to Harold Ambler, who frequents here in comments, for breaking the climate “glass ceiling” at HuffPo. This essay is something I thought I’d never see there. Next stop: Daily Kos? – Anthony


By Harold Ambler on The Huffington Post

Posted January 3, 2009 | 11:36 AM (EST

You are probably wondering whether President-elect Obama owes the world an apology for his actions regarding global warming. The answer is, not yet. There is one person, however, who does. You have probably guessed his name: Al Gore.

Mr. Gore has stated, regarding climate change, that “the science is in.” Well, he is absolutely right about that, except for one tiny thing. It is the biggest whopper ever sold to the public in the history of humankind.

What is wrong with the statement? A brief list:

1. First, the expression “climate change” itself is a redundancy, and contains a lie. Climate has always changed, and always will. There has been no stable period of climate during the Holocene, our own climatic era, which began with the end of the last ice age 12,000 years ago. During the Holocene there have been numerous sub-periods with dramatically varied climate, such as the warm Holocene Optimum (7,000 B.C. to 3,000 B.C., during which humanity began to flourish, and advance technologically), the warm Roman Optimum (200 B.C. to 400 A.D., a time of abundant crops that promoted the empire), the cold Dark Ages (400 A.D. to 900 A.D., during which the Nile River froze, major cities were abandoned, the Roman Empire fell apart, and pestilence and famine were widespread), the Medieval Warm Period (900 A.D. to 1300 A.D., during which agriculture flourished, wealth increased, and dozens of lavish examples of Gothic architecture were created), the Little Ice Age (1300 to 1850, during much of which plague, crop failures, witch burnings, food riots — and even revolutions, including the French Revolution — were the rule of thumb), followed by our own time of relative warmth (1850 to present, during which population has increased, technology and medical advances have been astonishing, and agriculture has flourished).

So, no one needs to say the words “climate” and “change” in the same breath — it is assumed, by anyone with any level of knowledge, that climate changes. That is the redundancy to which I alluded. The lie is the suggestion that climate has ever been stable. Mr. Gore has used a famously inaccurate graph, known as the “Mann Hockey Stick,” created by the scientist Michael Mann, showing that the modern rise in temperatures is unprecedented, and that the dramatic changes in climate just described did not take place. They did. One last thought on the expression “climate change”: It is a retreat from the earlier expression used by alarmists, “manmade global warming,” which was more easily debunked. There are people in Mr. Gore’s camp who now use instances of cold temperatures to prove the existence of “climate change,” which is absurd, obscene, even.

2. Mr. Gore has gone so far to discourage debate on climate as to refer to those who question his simplistic view of the atmosphere as “flat-Earthers.” This, too, is right on target, except for one tiny detail. It is exactly the opposite of the truth.

Indeed, it is Mr. Gore and his brethren who are flat-Earthers. Mr. Gore states, ad nauseum, that carbon dioxide rules climate in frightening and unpredictable, and new, ways. When he shows the hockey stick graph of temperature and plots it against reconstructed C02 levels in An Inconvenient Truth, he says that the two clearly have an obvious correlation. “Their relationship is actually very complicated,” he says, “but there is one relationship that is far more powerful than all the others, and it is this: When there is more carbon dioxide, the temperature gets warmer.” The word “complicated” here is among the most significant Mr. Gore has uttered on the subject of climate and is, at best, a deliberate act of obfuscation. Why? Because it turns out that there is an 800-year lag between temperature and carbon dioxide, unlike the sense conveyed by Mr. Gore’s graph. You are probably wondering by now — and if you are not, you should be — which rises first, carbon dioxide or temperature. The answer? Temperature. In every case, the ice-core data shows that temperature rises precede rises in carbon dioxide by, on average, 800 years. In fact, the relationship is not “complicated.” When the ocean-atmosphere system warms, the oceans discharge vast quantities of carbon dioxide in a process known as de-gassing. For this reason, warm and cold years show up on the Mauna Loa C02 measurements even in the short term. For instance, the post-Pinatubo-eruption year of 1993 shows the lowest C02 increase since measurements have been kept. When did the highest C02 increase take place? During the super El Niño year of 1998.

3. What the alarmists now state is that past episodes of warming were not caused by C02 but amplified by it, which is debatable, for many reasons, but, more important, is a far cry from the version of events sold to the public by Mr. Gore.

Meanwhile, the theory that carbon dioxide “drives” climate in any meaningful way is simply wrong and, again, evidence of a “flat-Earth” mentality. Carbon dioxide cannot absorb an unlimited amount of infrared radiation. Why not? Because it only absorbs heat along limited bandwidths, and is already absorbing just about everything it can. That is why plotted on a graph, C02’s ability to capture heat follows a logarithmic curve. We are already very near the maximum absorption level. Further, the IPCC Fourth Assessment, like all the ones before it, is based on computer models that presume a positive feedback of atmospheric warming via increased water vapor.

4. This mechanism has never been shown to exist. Indeed, increased temperature leads to increased evaporation of the oceans, which leads to increased cloud cover (one cooling effect) and increased precipitation (a bigger cooling effect). Within certain bounds, in other words, the ocean-atmosphere system has a very effective self-regulating tendency. By the way, water vapor is far more prevalent, and relevant, in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide — a trace gas. Water vapor’s absorption spectrum also overlays that of carbon dioxide. They cannot both absorb the same energy! The relative might of water vapor and relative weakness of carbon dioxide is exemplified by the extraordinary cooling experienced each night in desert regions, where water in the atmosphere is nearly non-existent.

If not carbon dioxide, what does “drive” climate? I am glad you are wondering about that. In the short term, it is ocean cycles, principally the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the “super cycle” of which cooling La Niñas and warming El Niños are parts. Having been in its warm phase, in which El Niños predominate, for the 30 years ending in late 2006, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation switched to its cool phase, in which La Niñas predominate.

Since that time, already, a number of interesting things have taken place. One La Niña lowered temperatures around the globe for about half of the year just ended, and another La Niña shows evidence of beginning in the equatorial Pacific waters. During the last twelve months, many interesting cold-weather events happened to occur: record snow in the European Alps, China, New Zealand, Australia, Brazil, the Pacific Northwest, Alaska, the Rockies, the upper Midwest, Las Vegas, Houston, and New Orleans. There was also, for the first time in at least 100 years, snow in Baghdad.

Concurrent with the switchover of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation to its cool phase the Sun has entered a period of deep slumber. The number of sunspots for 2008 was the second lowest of any year since 1901. That matters less because of fluctuations in the amount of heat generated by the massive star in our near proximity (although there are some fluctuations that may have some measurable effect on global temperatures) and more because of a process best described by the Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark in his complex, but elegant, work The Chilling Stars. In the book, the modern Galileo, for he is nothing less, establishes that cosmic rays from deep space seed clouds over Earth’s oceans. Regulating the number of cosmic rays reaching Earth’s atmosphere is the solar wind; when it is strong, we get fewer cosmic rays. When it is weak, we get more. As NASA has corroborated, the number of cosmic rays passing through our atmosphere is at the maximum level since measurements have been taken, and show no signs of diminishing. The result: the seeding of what some have taken to calling “Svensmark clouds,” low dense clouds, principally over the oceans, that reflect sunlight back to space before it can have its warming effect on whatever is below.

Svensmark has proven, in the minds of most who have given his work a full hearing, that it is this very process that produced the episodes of cooling (and, inversely, warming) of our own era and past eras. The clearest instance of the process, by far, is that of the Maunder Minimum, which refers to a period from 1650 to 1700, during which the Sun had not a single spot on its face. Temperatures around the globe plummeted, with quite adverse effects: crop failures (remember the witch burnings in Europe and Massachusetts?), famine, and societal stress.

Many solar physicists anticipate that the slumbering Sun of early 2009 is likely to continue for at least two solar cycles, or about the next 25 years. Whether the Grand Solar Minimum, if it comes to pass, is as serious as the Maunder Minimum is not knowable, at present. Major solar minima (and maxima, such as the one during the second half of the 20th century) have also been shown to correlate with significant volcanic eruptions. These are likely the result of solar magnetic flux affecting geomagnetic flux, which affects the distribution of magma in Earth’s molten iron core and under its thin mantle. So, let us say, just for the sake of argument, that such an eruption takes place over the course of the next two decades. Like all major eruptions, this one will have a temporary cooling effect on global temperatures, perhaps a large one. The larger the eruption, the greater the effect. History shows that periods of cold are far more stressful to humanity than periods of warm. Would the eruption and consequent cooling be a climate-modifier that exists outside of nature, somehow? Who is the “flat-Earther” now?

What about heat escaping from volcanic vents in the ocean floor? What about the destruction of warming, upper-atmosphere ozone by cosmic rays? I could go on, but space is short. Again, who is the “flat-Earther” here?

The ocean-atmosphere system is not a simple one that can be “ruled” by a trace atmospheric gas. It is a complex, chaotic system, largely modulated by solar effects (both direct and indirect), as shown by the Little Ice Age.

To be told, as I have been, by Mr. Gore, again and again, that carbon dioxide is a grave threat to humankind is not just annoying, by the way, although it is that! To re-tool our economies in an effort to suppress carbon dioxide and its imaginary effect on climate, when other, graver problems exist is, simply put, wrong. Particulate pollution, such as that causing the Asian brown cloud, is a real problem. Two billion people on Earth living without electricity, in darkened huts and hovels polluted by charcoal smoke, is a real problem.

So, let us indeed start a Manhattan Project-like mission to create alternative sources of energy. And, in the meantime, let us neither cripple our own economy by mislabeling carbon dioxide a pollutant nor discourage development in the Third World, where suffering continues unabated, day after day.

Again, Mr. Gore, I accept your apology.

And, Mr. Obama, though I voted for you for a thousand times a thousand reasons, I hope never to need one from you.

P.S. One of the last, desperate canards proposed by climate alarmists is that of the polar ice caps. Look at the “terrible,” “unprecedented” melting in the Arctic in the summer of 2007, they say. Well, the ice in the Arctic basin has always melted and refrozen, and always will. Any researcher who wants to find a single molecule of ice that has been there longer than 30 years is going to have a hard job, because the ice has always been melted from above (by the midnight Sun of summer) and below (by relatively warm ocean currents, possibly amplified by volcanic venting) — and on the sides, again by warm currents. Scientists in the alarmist camp have taken to referring to “old ice,” but, again, this is a misrepresentation of what takes place in the Arctic.

More to the point, 2007 happened also to be the time of maximum historic sea ice in Antarctica. (There are many credible sources of this information, such as the following website maintained by the University of Illinois-Urbana: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.anom.south.jpg). Why, I ask, has Mr. Gore not chosen to mention the record growth of sea ice around Antarctica? If the record melting in the Arctic is significant, then the record sea ice growth around Antarctica is, too, I say. If one is insignificant, then the other one is, too.

For failing to mention the 2007 Antarctic maximum sea ice record a single time, I also accept your apology, Mr. Gore. By the way, your contention that the Arctic basin will be “ice free” in summer within five years (which you said last month in Germany), is one of the most demonstrably false comments you have dared to make. Thank you for that

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Robert Wood
January 3, 2009 5:17 pm

Leif, you quote:
As NASA has corroborated, the number of cosmic rays passing through our atmosphere is at the maximum level since measurements have been taken, and show no signs of diminishing.
and then comment
Not true, the flux at minimum [remember to correct for small changes due to changes of the Earth’s magnetic field] at every solar minimum since measurements started in 1952 has been very constant.
Actually your quote and comment upon it are not mutually exclusive.
At zero sun-spots, the orbitally-corrected flux (what type?) is constant, cycle over measured cycle; I will not argue this with you as you know this stuff. This is why I disguss with you.
I don’t know about others, but my contention would be that, with lower sun-spot activity, due to longer minimums and lower maximums, over several (5-6) cycles, will result in lower relative total flux on the Earth, meaning less energy dumped into the atmospheric system, over that period. Remember, the Earth, because of its oceans, cannot be expected to respond to a step change in Solar output of energy (of all types) within a period of less than 60 years, and probably much more. Any shorter changes are merely weather or local turbulance.

January 3, 2009 5:19 pm

As we AGW scientists know.
There are known knowns, as for example the greenhouse effect.
Then there are things we know we know such as CO2 and Methane are greenhouse gases.
We also know
There are known unknowns that we don’t want to know.
That is to say
We know there are some things we can know, but we don’t want to know
We do not know the things we don’t like to know
But there are also unknown unknowns things we cannot know, because they are unknown
The ones we don’t know, but we like to know are unknown
We don’t know
That is to say, we know one thing, we know the unknown

Robert Wood
January 3, 2009 5:24 pm

gondwannabe 15:23:22 :
Sceptics seem to be pretty silent on their own list of inconvenient topics. Examples: ocean acidification, pollution effects, the social injustice that results from the current distribution of resource consumption, the strategic and economic costs of dependence on hostile oil and gas producers.
You reveal the real, political ideological agenda for the warming hysteria with these remarks. There is not one global warming related issue there, although two are claimed,a s a last desperate clutch of the straw to be so. It is all political.
As is the Global Warming hysteria.

January 3, 2009 5:38 pm

Chris V. (15:33:51) :
the bit about sunspots influencing volcanic activity was a new one for me!
I think he meant the LACK of sunspots [although he has a nice CYA statement that both solar minima AND maxima are responsible]
If there was only some evidence…
There has been several studies that suggest that when both 14C and 10Be are high, volcanic activity is high. It is much more likely that the ‘effect’ is caused by a link to the climate: volcanoes => climate => deposition of radionuclides [deposition rather than production]. Amber’s proposed ‘mechanism’ is ludicrous and he should have a scientist look at his ‘paper’ first to weed out the nonsense.

King of Cool
January 3, 2009 5:39 pm

I believe there can be many scientific studies that refute anthropogenic global warming and they will not have the impact that one well made, entertaining, and accurate movie will make.
Dennis Sharp (14:02:19) :

Hitler created his fanatical following mainly through the effectiveness of propaganda:
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm#Material
It worked for a while until reality overcame fantasy and he ended up incinerated outside a bunker in a devastated city.
Now, I would not wish the same fate on good old Al – just a two week paid holiday in a tent in the Arctic in 2012 would do – Oh… and only 2 bullets in his rifle.

January 3, 2009 5:47 pm

Robert Wood (17:17:59) :
the Earth, because of its oceans, cannot be expected to respond to a step change in Solar output of energy (of all types) within a period of less than 60 years, and probably much more. Any shorter changes are merely weather or local turbulance.
A lot of people with disagree with your 60-year delay. Many studies find a delay of one tenth of that. See e.g. some discussion by lucia: http://rankexploits.com/musings/2008/schwartz-scafetta-estimate-climate-time-scale/

gondwannabe
January 3, 2009 5:50 pm

ah, the cat is truly amongst the pigeons…thanks for those who have risen to the bait…perhaps I should clarify.
if, like me, you’re an AGW skeptic, all I’m saying is, ‘hold yourself to the same standard you hold the AGW proponents, so the debate can move forward’;
my point about social justice has to do with the unease many of us are feeling about the sustainability (yeah, I hate that word, too) of 10% of the world’s population consuming 60% of the world’s resources (or pick your own set of numbers) – it isn’t a moral issue for me, just think about the strategic implications;
so yes, I do believe the AGW debate needs to move up to the broader issues around carbon-fueled lifestyles…if your motivation about batting away AGW is to justify the status quo, then I’m concerned about your vision;
I’m arguing that there are measurable costs for plowing ahead – such as the real and immediate threat of pollution or the ramifications of our dependence on imported gas and oil – some here obviously aren’t concerned with this – but these ultimately tie directly to carbon emission policy;
ocean acidification is actually de-alkalinization? you’ve out-tautologized ‘climate always changes’! honestly, I don’t know if it’s good or bad, natural or anthropogenic – but would you consider that this correlates with CO2? Yes, CO2 has been higher in the primordial past, but do you consider the rate of change. Hint: it’s something like 3 orders of magnitude faster over the past 100 years – if that’s the case, it may make it difficult for organisms to adapt successfully to the change – would you consider that this could be a risk?;
finally, would you even consider that there may be real benefits in treating AGW as a real, urgent crisis, even if ultimately all the current AGW models fail? unless you think the AGW politicians are just being cynical, then consider that they may be pursuing a rational risk management policy. I don’t particularly like or agree with Al Gore, but I don’t think he owes us an apology for raising the debate to its current intensity.

Ron de Haan
January 3, 2009 6:11 pm

gondwannabe (17:50:57) :
Why does a transvestite wear a dress?

Joseph
January 3, 2009 6:14 pm

Those of you here nit-picking the details of Harold Ambler’s well-written essay seem to be missing the big picture. HuffPo’s readers don’t give a damn about the technical details of climate analysis. Their take-away will be that an erudite writer has claimed that Al Gore’s anthropogenic global warming claim is a lie, and supports this accusation with 2,000+ words of supporting information, in a publication that they respect. The significance of an essay such as this, appearing in a well-known liberal publication as HuffPo, is huge. The technical details are irrelevant, largely because, let’s face it, AGW is not a scientific debate, but a sociopolitical debate.
Brick by brick, the façade of AGW is crumbling. Harold Ambler has arrived with a bulldozer to lend a hand. Rather than criticizing the details of his analysis, we should be applauding his achievement of having reached an audience that has been misled for too long.

Katlab
January 3, 2009 6:24 pm

Tallbloke — Having the Huffington Post come out for global warming skeptics, is like having Hillary Clinton endorse Sarah Palin.

Mike Bryant
January 3, 2009 6:33 pm

“john stubbles (17:17:34) :
First Merkel turning on cap and trade, then Vaclav Klaus becoming EU President, and Gore making an ass of himself — a bigger ass that is– over Arctic ice, and now this Huffington blog. Wow ! What a Christmas!!”
I would add #4… AGW proponents appearing on this blog disguised as sceptics. The AGW faithful are really getting desperate. 🙂
Nice try, though Gond…

January 3, 2009 6:33 pm

Joseph (18:14:21) :
Those of you here nit-picking the details of Harold Ambler’s well-written essay seem to be missing the big picture. HuffPo’s readers don’t give a damn about the technical details of climate analysis.
I think the readers deserve that the technical details are correct, otherwise we are back in Gore and Schneider territory where we are allowed to be incorrect as long as we get our message across. If Ambler had claimed that the climate is manipulated by little green men from outer space rather than AGW, would that be OK too? as long as we bash AGW anything goes… I think not.

January 3, 2009 6:34 pm

Joseph (18:14:21) :
Rather than criticizing the details of his analysis, we should be applauding his achievement of having reached an audience that has been misled for too long.
Misleading them down a different path is just as bad.

January 3, 2009 6:41 pm

I am not qualified to argue Ambler’s “science” which, as more qualified commenters have pointed out, is quite weak. But his historical claims (#1 in his essay) are verifiable and largely true. Humanity and civilization have flourished during historically warm periods and suffered during the cooler ones.
Warmer means longer growing seasons, more rain, fewer crop failures, more abundance, less famine and disease, etc. Most of humanity lives closer to the Equators than to the poles. The warmer agricultural regions are far more productive than cooler regions. Plant and animal diversity (species per acre) are greatest in Equatorial regions, least in polar regions. Etc. etc.
Warmer Is Better. Awareness of that fact is increasing. The purported negatives regarding GW, such as rapid sea level rise, more hurricanes, and the demise of polar bears are easily disproved by empirical evidence. Alarmists are forced to predict ridiculous scenarios, such as the Venus Effect, to justify their anthropogenic global cooling (AGC) political/economic proposals, because warmer is so obviously better.
Now the non-progressive but still leftwing Huffington Post has tested the skeptic water. It is doubtful that they will plunge in, but it would not be a bad strategy for them. There is nothing inherent in Socialism that demands cooling the planet. They could adopt the Warmer Is Better philosophy and still cling to the precepts of Marxism. I’m just saying…

davidgmills
January 3, 2009 6:42 pm

Joseph. I agree. And what journalist ever gets the details right anyway?
The main thing is to get the public aware of a different point of view.

davidgmills
January 3, 2009 6:52 pm

Asking again about the article I posted above:
http://journals.royalsociety.org/content/77543w3q4mq86417/fulltext.pdf
To encourage interest in the article the title is:
“Empirical evidence for a nonlinear effect of galactic cosmic rays on clouds.”
From the abstract:
Across the UK, on days of high cosmic flux…, compared with low cosmic flux…, the chance of ( i ) an overcast day increases by ( 19 + or – 4 ) % and ( ii ) the diffuse fraction [clouds] increases by ( 2 + or – 0.3 ) %.
The author compared UK cloud data for 50 years with the cosmic ray data from Climax, Colorado and found this correlation.
Any takers out there to advise me about citing this article as authoritative? Lief?

Rabbit
January 3, 2009 7:00 pm

There’s also a link in the HuffPo to Vaclav Klaus.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/03/new-eu-president-climate_n_154949.html

TerryS
January 3, 2009 7:04 pm

gondwannabe (17:50:57) :
so yes, I do believe the AGW debate needs to move up to the broader issues around carbon-fueled lifestyles…

In which case it is no longer a debate about AGW and the science surrounding it. It is a debate about carbon-fueled lifestyles.

finally, would you even consider that there may be real benefits in treating AGW as a real, urgent crisis, even if ultimately all the current AGW models fail? unless you think the AGW politicians are just being cynical, then consider that they may be pursuing a rational risk management policy. I don’t particularly like or agree with Al Gore, but I don’t think he owes us an apology for raising the debate to its current intensity.

There are no benefits in corrupting science to suit your political agenda. Convince people with the truth not with pseudo science and misdirection.
AGW is a religion. It has all the hallmarks of a religion which are:
1. A fundamental belief: CO2 is responsible for GW
2. Man in general is evil: Man is the cause of the CO2 and hence of GW
3. True believers are smarter and better than other people: They aren’t flat-earthers, they believe in social justice. They care about the planet and the environment etc.
4. True believers will be rewarded after their death: Their children (and children’s children) will prosper and live in a better world because of the true believers actions.
5. Non-believers are stupid and evil: They are flat-earthers, they don’t care about social justice or the environment etc.
6. Non-believers wont be rewarded: Their children will suffer from pestilence and starvation etc.
7. Non believers must be converted.

Marcus
January 3, 2009 7:13 pm

Ah, the ways in which I could pick apart the “science” in Harold Ambler’s article. However, instead I will choose to note one amusing factoid:
Every time he talks about carbon dioxide, he uses “cee” “zero” “two” rather than “cee” “oh” “two”.
(also, Smokey, “The ocean is not acidifying. It is becoming marginally less alkaline, and the very slight change is not caused by atmospheric carbon dioxide.” – um, become less alkaline and becoming more acidic are the same thing. Do you say “the temperature is becoming less cold” when it warms from -5 to -3 degrees C? And given that the change in ocean acidity in fact agrees quite well with what we theoretically predict from increased CO2, what is your evidence that there isn’t causality here?)

January 3, 2009 7:14 pm

Lots of new places are starting to carry essays like this: click

Lichanos
January 3, 2009 7:14 pm

Science has fads just like any other human endeavor. It has dogmas, and rigid orthodoxies too. The difference is that in scientific culture, there is a powerful incentive to reveal them. As long as science is a viable enterprise in society, there will be scientists attempting to falsify theories, especially bad ones!
I am not surprised that there is a growing “common sense” reaction to the AGW movement. And I’m not surprised or particularly troubled that it has taken as long as it has. AGW has drawn together many deep trends in our contemporary culture: mass anxiety about the environment; ignorance of scientific method; the desire to replace religion with a nature-cult, etc.
My bet is that AGW will peter out before too much irrevocable damage has been done. The intensity of the AGW advocates has always been driven by their realization of how infeasible their goals were anyway…

Stefano
January 3, 2009 7:14 pm

gondwannabe wrote:
finally, would you even consider that there may be real benefits in treating AGW as a real, urgent crisis, even if ultimately all the current AGW models fail?

The Buddhists have a notion of “skillful means”. It basically says that it is OK to lie and bend the rules so long as the result is a good one (and you haven’t really harmed anyone along the way.)
I’d say that Al Gore has served, more likely, to highlight deep problems in science, authorities, and funding–problems that all need addressing, so that we can move forward to better quality science in these very complex fields where bias has been all too easy to introduce. Get auditing in there and proper verification.
As for social justice, it is odd to try to change people’s culture and justice by forcing on them material changes. I mean, you do change people’s culture in that way, but you really need to study culture FIRST and understand how that develops, before you even get into what possible material changes would be needed to force a desired change. Basically, if you’re really worried about social justice, then the whole thing should be driven by social / moral / philosophical schools of thought, by religious institutions, psychologists, anthropologists, and so on. Why do we consume so much so selfishly? That’s what you’re asking. Simply forcing a redistribution only angers everyone and can’t be sustained, except by draconian means. So just trying to force AGW on people as the “reason” won’t work. But that’s the sort of simplistic, “AGW leads to Justice” thinking that these scientists seem to be using. And guess what, they’re not qualified in the knowledge of human social change. You wouldn’t ask a chemist to give a sermon in church on infidelity. It’s just not their area of competence.
It is no accident I suppose that Hansen gives talks at Evangelical churches, and that the more progressive churches are looking for ways to heal the apparent split and sometimes outright war between science and religion. And so they welcome Hansen, and his perspective on the ecosystem, as it resonates with the Church’s notions of human morality, and they go on to redefine their morality in terms of including the environment, define it as “care for Creation” as Hansen puts it, and AGW and selfish consumption are “destruction of Creation”, as Hansen puts it. They have this dialogue and they have been including it into their religious life and teaching.
But whilst science and religion perhaps have indeed become unnecesarally polarised and antagonistic over the years, the way to solve that is NOT to try to smoosh them together. Rather, you simply accord each its own space. In church discuss religious and ethical issues. In the lab discuss scientific issues. Do each on its own, and have each STICK TO ITS OWN AREA.
So on this blog, it is right to remain generally silent on the ethical issues. It is not an ethics blog. We come here to find out about science issues. If you want ethics, pick your favorite religion, philosophy school, or grandma.
I know Gore talks about and is quoted as saying that AGW is a “spiritual issue”. But spiritual issues are even more complex than global warming science. Really complex. It is bad enough trying to disentangle mixed up ideas in science, let alone trying to disentangle the mixed up ideas of the world’s faiths, moral outlooks, ethical philosophies. Let’s just get the science right… even get the public presentation of the science right…
Morality and social justice do not rely on science or any science theory. If you think they do then you’re simply not noticing the subtle implicit value and moral judgements which you are making. Science can tell you that X leads to Y. But is Y “better” ? Do you have an instrument that can measure “better” or “good” ? If sharing wealth is truly the good thing to do, then there should exist moral justification for doing so, in its own right. A fair number of people will hear about impending resource wars and make the moral judgement, “well ok, we’re always fighting wars, and if there is going to be another, we’d better make sure we win! We’d better start hoarding all the resources we can so we’re the strongest!”
Don’t assume that the AGW scare will have on people the moral influence that you hope it will. Often you just can’t change people. Often it can just backfire. What kind of world do you envisage where everyone is desperately worried for their survival? You think that leads to cooperation?
Sorry that’s along post. I just wish we could disentangle the moral/spiritual thing from AGW debate.

Kum Dollison
January 3, 2009 7:16 pm

Yeah, and when the Warmerers manage to quit laughing they’re going to beat him mercilessly about the head and shoulders with that “Cosmic Rays causing Earthquakes” madness.
It would be better, I fear, that the article had ne’er been borne.

gondwannabe
January 3, 2009 7:32 pm

-snip-
AGW is a religion. It has all the hallmarks of a religion which are:
1. A fundamental belief: CO2 is responsible for GW
2. Man in general is evil: Man is the cause of the CO2…
-snip-
yes, conceded, and big Al is guilty as charged…and now, what about the converse?
very few of us are qualified to argue the science from either side – so the sociopolitical debate is what this really is – even if you pretend you’re arguing with science – that’s why Ambler fails – that’s why Gore fails…meanwhile, what should we be debating?
(lurking as a long-tailed relativist in a room full of rockin’ absolutists)

January 3, 2009 7:34 pm

davidgmills (18:52:45) :
Any takers out there to advise me about citing this article as authoritative? Leif?
The statistics is marginal. Cosmic ray counts [and weather] has high persistent, meaning that the number of degrees of freedom is much less than the number of data points. I couldn’t find any discussion of how that affects the significance. This is a minus point.
The paper states: “Although the statistically significant nonlinear cosmic ray effect is small, it will have a considerably larger aggregate effect on longer timescales”
It is not discussed how this ‘memory effect’ would work.
Other people looking at Forbush decreases have not found any effects. And the usual kicker: cosmic ray intensity at minima has been very constant the past 60 years when we have actual measurements.
All in all, I would not discount the paper, but also not claim it as good evidence.