Title with apologies to Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.
In my last post, part 77 of “How not to measure temperature” I pointed out that the National Weather Service in Upton NY has a weather station that is way out of compliance due to the way it is setup and the proximity to bias factors such as the parking lot.
There are thousands of weather stations across the USA, some run by various agencies. Often we’ll see them at national parks with interpretive displays. This one I encountered in Ely Nevada on my last road trip to finish the Nevada USHCN station surveys was part of an air quality and environmental monitoring program jointly run by the Department of Energy (DOE) and the Desert Research Institute (DRI).
It is an impressive station with multiple state of the art sensors, solar power, and a datalogger with a satellite uplink to DRI’s HQ. You can look at hourly data from the station at the CEMP DRI website here.
It is located about 2 miles northeast of town on government property, BLM land:
What is unique about this station is that it has an interpretive exhibit with live data readouts. I applaud DRI/DOE for doing this. Here are what the they look like closeup:
Click for larger images to read the text on the interpretive displays
As I said, I applaud DRI/DOE for doing this. Taking the effort to make such a wonderful educational display is a good use of taxpayer funds.
Except, that is, when they miss one critical detail.
Yes, the expensive satellite uplinked state of the art interpretive educational weather station is sited in the middle of two asphalt parking lots. One is for RV storage, the other is the parking lot for the Ely District Office for the Bureau of Land Management.
Here is the the view to the northeast of how the temperature sensor sees the BLM land:
Here is the aerial view of the placement:
With the parking lots on both sides being active with cars and RV’s, I would imagine that a fairly variable albedo exists, especially on weekends and holidays.
This wouldn’t be so bad if it was only an educational station with an interpretive exhibit, as one could explain it was placed here for the convenience of viewing and science really doesn’t advocate measuring the temperature of parking lots.
Except that this station is used for an active science project. How much of the other data measurements and calculations for such things as Tritium dispersal, gaseous pollutant volumes, etc are dependent on the temperature, humidity, and dewpoint data gathered here, all of which would be affected by the siting?
Contrast it to the ASOS station siting at the airport across the road. The ASOS is about 1000 feet NW of the southern runway intersection which you can see here in Google Maps
Normally ASOS stations are much more poorly sited than state of the art stations, but this example illustrates how spending tens of thousands of dollars on hi-tech measurement gear can be undone by lack of simple planning.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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Looks like someone’s going to be eating a heaping plate of crow on Thanksgiving Day.
Great job, Anthony. I hope you and your family enjoy the fruits of your incredible work and work ethic. Thanks for all of your yeoman’s work on exposing much of the sloppy and/or fraudulent “science” being conducted in the name of
AGW“climate change”.REPLY: I don’t know that fraudulent would be the applicable word here. But “sloppy” certainly is. Thanks, Anthony
Once again you have shown us that the US and indeed the world is making a joke of science and weather measurement.
I am not sure if any politicians are aware of the totally absurd and fraudulent practices of the CCRO Climate Change Religion Opportunist;
A) Heat Island Temperature Sampling generates Useless Data samples of MICROCLIMATES.
B) Absurd extrapolations from nano sized inaccurate data, relative to the age of the earth.
C) Climate models of dubious “completeness” and gross inaccuracy.
D) Failing to include soil stability in ocean level measurement, generating false ocean rise rates.
E) Migration of CO2 in Ice. – negating any arguments for temperature vs. co2.
F) SEA and LAND ICE advances and retreats.
G) Volcanic contribution.
H) Geo-Thermal contribution.
I) Solar contribution.
J) Magnetic influence.
I am sure i have missed much… basically this is an absurdly “wicked” “problem” that merits continual study, but no IRRATIONAL CAP and TRADE.
Yeah, that’s one little critical teeny, tiny detail. Thanks for a good laugh.
When our boy did his Eagle Scout project 9 years ago, he landscaped a school, put in sprinklers, lawn, stepping stones, benches, arbors, etc. Every Boy Scout has to do a significant project as part of becoming an Eagle Scout.
I was just thinking, building a Stevenson screen and the whole setup for a climate station would be a pretty straightforward project. Once one was built, detailed instructions could be written up so others could duplicate the station exactly. The plans could be emailed to Scout troops worldwide.
There are Boy Scouts everywhere. This sort of thing would surely appeal to science-oriented high school kids. The labor would be done free by 17-year old Eagle candidates [and naturally, with their dads helping] who would be interested in doing a good job they’d be proud of.
The troop could take on the responsibility of maintaining and monitoring the station.
…Just a thought, for anyone involved with the Scouts.
Another turkey site.
What’s that expression again? Oh yes, location, location, location.
All they’ll get will be skewed readings.
Oh well, at least the smells from the kitchen are really getting seductive about now. Time to eat. ** Happy Thanksgiving to all. **
We’ve changed our products and the way they are installed several times because folks have a tendency not to read instructions. After some years of following up on how the products are used in real life, we’ve learnt to make them more fool-proof.
With the results you have shown, it begs the question, have senior officers responsible for the measuring programmes ever conducted a similar study of how temperatures really are measured? Is Anthony Watts et al the only quality assurance efforts there is?
(Our products.)
some one was asking about temp measurements from other countries.
Here’s China’s version of GISS/NOAA
http://bcc.cma.gov.cn/en/
You asked, “Is Anthony Watts et al the only quality assurance efforts there is?”
Don’t laugh. They may be the very few that are objective. Please remember that you get what you pay for, and we fund a lot of “climate change” science. I certainly respect Anthony’s honesty. While we all would like to see clean data, I suspect that certain parties are all to eager to apply their “corrections” to dirty data.
My suspicion is only that, an unproven suspicion…that happens to fit the data.
Rob
I’m a little confused. I’m familiar with the USHCN network, having done one of the station surveys. But your statement that “…Normally ASOS stations are much more poorly sited…” makes me wonder if the ASOS network isn’t quite as good as I thought it was, although I understand that you were comparing it to a theoretical state-of-the-art station. My impression was that it was at least partially designed to create a better surface record than USHCN once it has had enough time to be in place. Did I read too much into your comment?
The problem with making something fool-proof?
They always invent a better fool.
If memory serves me, it gets rather warm in that part of Nevada. With lots of sunshine. Parking a hot RV next to the sensor?
Nah. They wouldn’t do anything like that.
I don’t think we need better fools. The current crop seems to do quite well.
It may be a long shot but is there comparable data from each of these stations? Be a good indication of the differential between them with a 1000′ lateral separation it would be expected that the ‘weather’ should be the same at each station.
Just to clear up any possible misunderstanding from my first comment— I wasn’t necessarily talking about this particular station being being fraudulently set up. I was referring to Al “BS I” Gore and his lap dog, James Hansen, and their ilk. The guys or gals who set up this site, along with numerous others, could have just been “following orders“, as someone, somewhere, once infamously said.
Data users are cautioned to carefully consider the provisional nature of this information before any application, particularly for decisions that concern personal or public safety or the conduct of business that involves substantial monetary or operational consequences. Information concerning the accuracy and appropriate uses of these provisional data may be obtained by contacting the Western Regional Climate Center at wrcc@dri.edu or by calling (775) 674-7010.
these data are provisional and therefore may be subject to change. Provisional data may be adjusted for various reasons including disruption of sensors, instrument calibration, equipment failure, and problems with data transfer. These data are not valid until thoroughly reviewed and evaluated by the Desert Research Institute
LOL or the bankrupting of the coal fired power plants by left loonies.
I want a chart of both temp censers , and when the jets turn at the runway how much jetwash is there on that sight?
tiny tim
It really amazes me the SLOPPINESS of this ‘supposedly’ educational setup. Whatever happened to the phrase…”If you’re going to do something, do it right!”
Maybe this is how the AGW/Climate Change clowns ‘prove’ their hypothesis..by installing these weather measuring devices over blacktop where lots of cars drive by….sheeeeeez!
http://www.cookevilleweatherguy.com
Anthony, Happy Thanksgiving weekend to you and yours. Your family is very kind to let you work at your computer in order to give us this delectable bit to read at the end of the wonderful feast day.
You write that this station is “part of an air quality and environmental monitoring program jointly run by the Department of Energy (DOE) and the Desert Research Institute (DRI).
It is an impressive station with multiple state of the art sensors, solar power, and a datalogger with a satellite uplink to DRI’s HQ. ” However……
One begins to wonder if anyone anywhere is minding the store with respect to accurate gathering of data for very important decisions that must be made nationally and globally. I am hoping that your work and that of those who read your blog puts so much egg on the face of our supposed civil and military and academic servants who gather data that we will see a transformation in the siting of these stations. In the spirit of Thanksgiving, perhaps we can believe that they were so taken up with their good educational deed that they forgot the scientific rigor necessary to their undertaking. I hope everyone writes them a letter with a copy of this blog essay included.
Unbelievable!
Big Mc (15:00:04) :
Yep, you’re a little confused. You’re thinking of CRN (Climate Reference Network), see http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/
ASOS is for airport weather conditions, though some of them made it into USHCN.
Google USHCN ASOS for many other refs.
Hi Anthony,
all the best for your Thanksgiving!
I am just curious, since you write about a good and a possibly bad station directly next to each other . . Do you think there is a way to compare their data?
All the best,
LoN
REPLY: yes we have a plan for that, but first I need to get a majority of stations surveyed. 75% is my minimum target. – Anthony
The ASOS setups are primarily there for the pilots, who are concerned with wind and pressure, and temperature isn’t usually a concern unless you’re right around freezing.
ASOS have the advantage of open spaces, and consistent location and conditions, but the disadvantage of large expanses of pavement nearby. They are sited out of the way of jet exhaust, but when the wind blows the wrong way you would get transient spikes. but an automated system could ignore temps that weren’t present for at least a certain amount of time. Don’t know that they do, tho. They are well maintained, and would be good for trends, which is what the alarmists and we deniers are interested in.
“Ian B (15:32:47) :
The problem with making something fool-proof?
They always invent a better fool.”
🙂
When I was a practicing engineer my expression for it was:
Just when you think you have something idiot proofed they come out with smarter idiots.
just reading at NASA,
“There is also the matter of solar irradiance ,” adds Pesnell. “Researchers are now
seeing the dimmest sun in their records. The change is small, just a fraction of a
percent, but significant. Questions about effects on climate are natural if the sun
continues to dim.”
Rani Gran
NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center
10.06.08
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/280251main_spotlesssun_graph100_HI.jpg
We are getting close to the new month, can we get a new post/update on our sun?
Dr. Leif Svalgaard? Anthony?
Rani Gran has he bumped into James Hansen?
Or is some one there starting to buffer up to a cool down?
We shall see
Any comparative data ASOS v. Ely NV DRi site to tease out any bias? I think M. McMillan above has it about right on ASOS sites. They were not designed or intended for longitudinal climate study, but rather to provide realtime data to airman. That being said, there are some small airport ASOS sites that compare favorably to much of what has been found in the network. The ASOS equipment/sensor pak is I think pretty standardized, and well maintained given the critical safety mission.
Mike, have you ever heard of density altitude? Temperature is a big factor, hot day, high altitude and crash.
For Example
http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44321
Tim L (20:40:04) :
“There is also the matter of solar irradiance ,” adds Pesnell. “Researchers are now seeing the dimmest sun in their records.
No, this is incorrect. Dean Pesnell is probably referring to the so-called PMOD composite of TSI. But it has been degrading in recent years [space is a harsh environment] and the sensors are getting weak [although the PMOD people tell us that they try to compensate for this by various means]. You can see the difference between PMOD and the SORCE TIM-instrument here. It is clear that the PMOD values are decreasing with respect to the SORCE values. The latter are calibrated regularly in flight by comparison with non-varying stars are are considered the best TSI dataset [only going back to 2003, though]. You can normally get the data at http://lasp.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/ion-p?page=input_data_for_tsi.ion although access may be a bit shaky the next few days as they upgrade their software for calculating the distance to the Sun [we have discovered a few minor problems in this regard, which they are fixing].