UPADATED AT 8:30AM PST Sept 2nd-
More on SIDC’s decision to count a sunspeck (technically a “pore”) days after the fact. NOAA has now followed SIDC in adding a 0.5 sunspot where there was none before. But as commenter Basil points out, SIDC’s own records are in contrast to their last minute decision to count the sunspeck or “pore” on August 21.
There is an archive of the daily SIDC “ursigrams” here:
http://sidc.oma.be/html/SWAPP/dailyreport/dailyreport.html
If you select the ursigrams for August 22 and 23, you get the reported data for the 21st and 22nd:
August 21:
TODAY’S ESTIMATED ISN : 000, BASED ON 07 STATIONS.
SOLAR INDICES FOR 21 Aug 2008
WOLF NUMBER CATANIA : 011
10CM SOLAR FLUX : 067
AK CHAMBON LA FORET : ///
AK WINGST : 004
ESTIMATED AP : 005
ESTIMATED ISN : 000, BASED ON 14 STATIONS.
August 22:
TODAY’S ESTIMATED ISN : 000, BASED ON 11 STATIONS.
SOLAR INDICES FOR 22 Aug 2008
WOLF NUMBER CATANIA : 013
10CM SOLAR FLUX : 068
AK CHAMBON LA FORET : ///
AK WINGST : 003
ESTIMATED AP : 003
ESTIMATED ISN : 000, BASED ON 11 STATIONS.
In both cases, the daily estimated “International Sunspot Number” based on multiple stations, not just the Catania Wolf Number, was 000. So how did SIDC end up with positive values in the monthly report?
UPDATED at 2:42 PM PST Sept 1st –
After going days without counting the August 21/22 “sunspeck” NOAA and SIDC Brussels now says it was NOT a spotless month! Both data sets below have been recently revised.
Here is the SIDC data:
http://www.sidc.be/products/ri_hemispheric/
Here is the NOAA data:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/SOLAR_DATA/SUNSPOT_NUMBERS/MONTHLY
The NOAA data shows July as 0.5 but they have not yet updated for August as SIDC has. SIDC reports 0.5 for August. It will be interesting to see what NOAA will do.
SIDC officially counted that sunspeck after all. It only took them a week to figure out if they were going to count it or not, since no number was assigned originally.
But there appears to be an error in the data from the one station that reported a spot, Catania, Italy. No other stations monitoring that day reported a spot. Here is the drawing from that Observatory:
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080821_063500.jpg
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080822_055000.jpg
But according to Leif Svalgaard, “SIDC reported a spot in the south, while the spot(s) Catania [reported] was in the north.” This is a puzzle. See his exchange below.
Also, other observatories show no spots at all. For example, at the 150 foot solar solar tower at the Mount Wilson Observatory, the drawings from those dates show no spots at all:
ftp://howard.astro.ucla.edu/pub/obs/drawings/dr080821.jpg
ftp://howard.astro.ucla.edu/pub/obs/drawings/dr080822.jpg
Inquires have been sent, stay tuned.
Here is an exchange in comments from Leif Svalgaard.
——-
REPLY: So What gives Leif….? You yourself said these sunspecks weren’t given a number. I trusted your assessment. Hence this article. Given the Brussels folks decided to change their minds later, what is the rationale ? – Anthony
The active region numbering is done by NOAA, not by Brussels. The Brussels folks occasionally disagree. In this case, they did. Rudolf Wolf would not have counted this spot. Nor would I. What puzzles me is this:
21 7 4 3
22 8 4 4
The 3rd column are ’spots’ in the Northern hemisphere, and the 4th column are ’spots’ in the Southern hemisphere [both weighted with the ‘k’-factor: SSN = k(10g+s)]. But there weren’t any in the south. The Catania spot was at 15 degrees north latitude, IIRC. Maybe the last word is not in on this.
——–
Hmm….apparently there’s some backstory to this. There is a debate raging in comments to this story, be sure to check them. – Anthony
# MONTHLY REPORT ON THE INTERNATIONAL SUNSPOT NUMBER #
# from the SIDC (RWC-Belgium) #
#——————————————————————–#
AUGUST 2008
PROVISIONAL INTERNATIONAL NORMALIZED HEMISPHERIC SUNSPOT NUMBERS
Date Ri Rn Rs
__________________________________________________________________
1 0 0 0
2 0 0 0
3 0 0 0
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 0
6 0 0 0
7 0 0 0
8 0 0 0
9 0 0 0
10 0 0 0
11 0 0 0
12 0 0 0
13 0 0 0
14 0 0 0
15 0 0 0
16 0 0 0
17 0 0 0
18 0 0 0
19 0 0 0
20 0 0 0
21 7 4 3
22 8 4 4
23 0 0 0
24 0 0 0
25 0 0 0
26 0 0 0
27 0 0 0
28 0 0 0
29 0 0 0
30 0 0 0
31 0 0 0
__________________________________________________________________
MONTHLY MEAN : 0.5 0.3 0.2
========================================================
ORIGINAL STORY FOLLOWS:
Many have been keeping a watchful eye on solar activity recently. The most popular thing to watch has been sunspots. While not a direct indication of solar activity, they are a proxy for the sun’s internal magnetic dynamo. There have been a number of indicators recently that it has been slowing down.
August 2008 has made solar history. As of 00 UTC (5PM PST) we just posted the first spotless calendar month since June 1913. Solar time is measured by Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) so it is now September 1st in UTC time. I’ve determined this to be the first spotless calendar month according to sunspot data from NOAA’s National Geophysical Data Center, which goes back to 1749. In the 95 years since 1913, we’ve had quite an active sun. But that has been changing in the last few years. The sun today is a nearly featureless sphere and has been for many days:
Image from SOHO
And there are other indicators. For example, some solar forecasts have been revised recently because the forecast models haven’t matched the observations. Australia’s space weather agency recently revised their solar cycle 24 forecast, pushing the expected date for a ramping up of cycle 24 sunspots into the future by six months.
The net effect of having no sunspots is about 0.1% drop in the TSI (Total Solar Irradiance). My view is that TSI alone isn’t the main factor in modulating Earth’s climate.
I think it’s solar magnetism modulating Galactic Cosmic Rays, and hence more cloud nuclei from GCR’s, per Svensmark’s theory. We’ve had indications since October 2005 that the sun’s dynamo is slowing down. It dropped significantly then, and has remained that way since. Seeing no sunpots now is another indicator of that idling dynamo.
Graph of solar Geomagnetic Index (Ap):
Click for a larger image
Earth of course is a big heat sink, so it takes awhile to catch up to any changes that originate on the sun, but temperature drops indicated by 4 global temperature metrics (UAH, RSS and to a lesser degree HadCrit and GISS) show a significant and sharp cooling in 2007 and 2008 that has not rebounded.In the 20 years since “global warming” started life as a public issue with Dr. James Hansen’s testimony before congress in June 1988, we are actually cooler.
Click for a larger image
Reference: UAH lower troposphere data
Coincidence? Possibly, but nature will be the final arbiter of climate change debate, and I think we would do well to listen to what it’s saying now.
Joe D’Aleo of ICECAP also wrote some interesting things which I’ll reprint here.
…we have had a 0 sunspot calendar month (there have been more 30 day intervals without sunspots as recent as 1954 but they have crossed months). Following is a plot of the number of months with 0 sunspots by year over the period of record – 23 cycles since 1749.
See larger image here.
Note that cluster of zero month years in the early 1800s (a very cold period called the Dalton minimum – at the time of Charles Dickens and snowy London town and including thanks to Tambora, the Year without a Summer 1816) and again to a lesser degree in the early 1900s. These correspond to the 106 and 213 year cycle minimums. This would suggest that the next cycle minimum around 2020 when both cycles are in phase at a minimum could be especially weak. Even David Hathaway of NASA who has been a believer in the cycle 24 peak being strong, thinks the next minimum and cycle 25 maximum could be the weakest in centuries based on slowdown of the plasma conveyor belt on the sun.
In this plot of the cycle lengths and sunspot number at peak of the cycles, assuming this upcoming cycle will begin in 2009 show the similarity of the recent cycles to cycle numbers 2- 4, two centuries ago preceding the Dalton Minimum. This cycle 23 could end up the longest since cycle 4, which had a similar size peak and also similarly, two prior short cycles.
See larger image here.
Will this mean anything for climate in our near future? Possibly. But we’ll have to wait to see how this experiment pans out.
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Julie,
“I’m one of them who was convinced (converted??) by what I read here – and I tell whoever will listen about this site.”
Just go all the way and vote McCain/Palin in November.
🙂
Really the Republican party has become a well of far more diverse ideas than the Democrat party. Look at what the Dems did to Lieberman when he disagreed with the dem-majority on ONE issue. (the war.)
I think after you see what your party and so called “liberals” smear Palin with in the next two months you’ll see what Hypocrites the party majority has become.
Fernando Mafili (10:38:15) :
The Sun is positive or negative?
The Sun puts out equal amounts of both charges and so stays neutral. You can see this by imagining what would happen if some extra negative charge were to move away from the Sun against gravity. Since the electric force is 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger than gravity, the extra negative charge [electrons] would immediately pull up an equivalent positive charge to match, so there is no net charge.
DAV- words do make a difference. It does matter. Pluto is a planet despite what planet despite what TV faux physicist Tyson says. It does make a difference if something is or isn’t true. Your approach is sloppy, imho. Mine may be knee-jerk, but I’ve got a lot of fast twitching muscles and I use ’em to think and respond fast. Our sciences are in a mess because there’s no way to falsify anything anymore, just like string theory which sucks up all the funding, and no matter that observation and experiment shows that it is not only unimportant, but not true!. A real scientist tries harder than anyone to falsify his own theories. This whole deal smells more than Caylee Anthony’s trunk and despite assurances that there was no influence, I say anyone who believes that can buy a bridge i have here!
mbuel (11:12:20) :
“Just go all the way and vote McCain/Palin in November.”
Going all the way would mean a write-in vote:
Palin/McCain
Doesn’t this present the dilemma — What would we have seen with the technology of 1913?
I’m voting for the girl.
Anthony, I know this has been a heck of a lot of frustration and hard work over one, apparently miscounted, spot.
I want to thank you, and salute you once again for doing it with excellence, maintaining your high standards of decorum, and probably generating more worldwide interest in this than would otherwise be possible.
Cheers,
J-X
Got ’em.
Second column is the sunspot count.
d> grep -A 1 Number 08*dayind.txt | grep 999
0801dayind.txt- 0 66 67 A0.0 -999
0802dayind.txt- 0 66 67 A0.0 -999
0803dayind.txt- 0 66 67 A0.0 -999
0804dayind.txt- 0 66 67 A0.0 -999
0805dayind.txt- 0 67 67 -1.0 -999
0806dayind.txt- 0 67 67 -1.0 -999
0807dayind.txt- 0 66 67 -1.0 -999
0808dayind.txt- 0 66 67 -1.0 -999
0809dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0810dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0811dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0812dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0813dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0814dayind.txt- 0 66 66 A0.0 -999
0815dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0817dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0818dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0819dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0820dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0821dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0822dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0823dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0824dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0825dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0826dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0827dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0828dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0829dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0830dayind.txt- 0 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
0831dayind.txt- -1 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
The first part of 0831:
:Product: Daily Space Weather Indices dayind.txt
:Issued: 2008 Sep 01 1815 UT
# Prepared by the US Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, Space Weather Prediction Center
# Product description and SWPC contact on the Web
# http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/wwire.html
#
# Daily Space Weather Indices
#
#
:Solar_Indices: 2008 Aug 31
# SWO Sunspot Penticton Radio 90-day Radio GOES-10 X-ray Stanford Solar
# Number Flux 10.7cm Flux 10.7cm Bkgd Flux Mean Field
-1 -1 -1 -1.0 -999
So one file will need to be updated. Either that or we’re in the negative part of the projection range. 🙂
tarpon (11:31:12) :
Doesn’t this present the dilemma — What would we have seen with the technology of 1913?
It is not technology, it is procedure that is different. But, really, no spots or one tiny one doesn’t make any difference. The psychological impact of a spot-free month is undeniable, though. Physically, it doesn’t make much difference.
The reason that discussions about sunspots or other climate issues are important is that the AGW has been highly politicized from the U.N. through most world governments, exploited by politicians, and used by corporations ($$) so many times any weather event such as melting glaciers, endangered polar bears, melting of the Artic, or other notable weather artifact are used to convince the world that AGW is real. BTW consensus is not science but it is pervasive in the news media especially with respect to politics and science.
John-x Thanks
I’ve located the drawings from Catainia observatory that day
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080821_063500.jpg
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080822_055000.jpg
John-X (11:09:20) :
Hmm, I nearly posted July data myself. Where’s this summer going?
Non-zero June (from 16th) and July data:
0617dayind.txt- 11 66 70 A0.0 -999
0618dayind.txt- 11 65 70 A0.0 -999
0619dayind.txt- 11 65 70 A0.0 -999
0620dayind.txt- 11 65 70 A0.0 -999
0621dayind.txt- 11 65 70 A0.0 -999
0622dayind.txt- 11 65 70 A0.0 -999
0718dayind.txt- 11 65 66 A0.0 -999
0719dayind.txt- 12 66 67 A0.0 -999
0720dayind.txt- 11 66 67 A0.0 -999
0719’s 12 means 1 group of spots containing 2 spots.
My interpretation [as of now] is that the number that will go into the NOAA/NGDC (National Geophysical Data Center) database is the “official” number, and NOAA/NGDC [it seems to me] define that as the number from the SIDC in Brussels.
So unless SIDC revises their count (which Leif has already said he wouldn’t bet on), then both the SIDC and the NOAA/NGDC monthly number for August will be 0.5, same as July.
If anyone knows otherwise or has a different interpretation, please tell me.
REPLY: There’s a point to be made yet. NOAA is closed for the labor day holiday, they won’t check emails until tommorrow morning. Perhaps some well written emails to NOAA-NGDC would give them pause for revaluation?
Leif, do you have sugegsted contacts?
Seemed curious that NOAA didn’t number the spot. They’ve shown no problem doing that in the last few that have been there. Wonder if these specks are borderlining their rules and it becomes a judgment call for the person on duty. I’ve no problem with others numbering the spot. It was there. The southern hemisphere is definitely an “oops” that’ll be corrected, I’m sure. Personally, it’s no big deal, but shedding light on these procedures is a good thing.
One spot, half a spot whatever, don’t you think we have more eyes with better equipment looking at the sun today than in any other time in history?
So who’s to say 1913 spot count is to the same standards as today’s? Or how about 1750’s spot count or near lack of one? Maybe they missed a few?
Just a thought
wattsupwiththat (11:41:32) :
“I’ve located the drawings from Catainia observatory that day
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080821_063500.jpg
ftp://ftp.ct.astro.it/sundraw/OAC_D_20080822_055000.jpg”
OUTSTANDING!
So where the heck did that “southern [solar] hemisphere” stuff come from?
These both say latitude 15N.
Did SIDC base their count ONLY on Catania, or were there other observers who reported the speck or pore?
REPLY: There’s a point to be made yet. NOAA is closed for the labor day holiday, they won’t check emails until tommorrow morning. Perhaps some well written emails to NOAA-NGDC would give them pause for revaluation?
I think NOAA’s call was correct. Those were pores, not spots. I’ll ask Bill Livingston what he thinks. NOAA is so bureaucratic that one has to through channels. Check the website.
[…] Story here. […]
David Gladstone (11:19:22) : DAV- words do make a difference. It does matter. Pluto is a planet despite what planet despite what TV faux physicist Tyson says. It does make a difference if something is or isn’t true. Your approach is sloppy, imho. Mine may be knee-jerk, but I’ve got a lot of fast twitching muscles and I use ‘em to think and respond fast. Our sciences are in a mess because there’s no way to falsify anything anymore
Then you think the definition is everything? I’m curious: what scientific theory has just becomes unfalsified by a small change in someone’s definition?
In re my approach being sloppy: How can something that doesn’t exist have an attribute? My opinion is that since we are discussing statistical events, it really matters little if there are 0, 3 or even 10 sunspots. It will hardly affect any correlation derived from the count. Besides, many of the things we call “sunspots” probably weren’t observable in the 18th century and the numbers we observe now are not the same as then. So effectively, definitions have changed.
In fact, they change frequently in other disciplines as well. Pluto is no longer classified as a planet according to the IAU. Bet you aren’t aware that the official atomic weight of oxygen was changed to be exactly 16 because it was more convenient? A bad day for scientific integrity, eh?
Frankly, I think this current foofarah over conspiracies is embarrassing to witness. I’m sure it will supply endless fodder for pogie look-at-the-silliness pointing.
John-X (10:59:14) :
“’UPDATE SCHEDULE:
The Solar Cycle products are updated once a month and are
put on-line the first Tuesday after the new values are available.
The latest values are usually available on the 3rd of every month.’
So their graphs of the Solar Cycle progression should be updated tomorrow, with the values by Wednesday.”
That might not happen. Today’s a holiday and I suspect the update might be delayed until Tuesday, next week. I remember that the posting for the June figures didn’t happen until 8 July. And whether they report a value of 0 or .5 for August is a minor matter. What I’m waiting to see happen is for Hathaway to pull his team together to revise their prediction on SC24.
DAV (12:43:16) :
I basically agree with you. But just for the record, it is 12C carbon that is defined as exactly 12. Oxygen is what it is:
http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/Handbook/Tables/oxygentable1.htm
Leon Brozyna (12:48:50) :
“…whether they report a value of 0 or .5 for August is a minor matter. What I’m waiting to see happen is for Hathaway to pull his team together to revise their prediction on SC24.”
And that might not happen until Spring
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/SC24/index.html
“The Panel expects to update this prediction annually.”
and this was the latest update
“June 27, 2008 During the annual Space Weather Workshop held in Boulder, CO in May, 2008, the Solar Cycle 24 Prediction Panel released an update to the prediction for the next solar cycle. In short, the update is that the panel has not yet made any changes to the prediction issued in April, 2007…”
Leif Svalgaard (13:18:18) : I basically agree with you. But just for the record, it is 12C carbon that is defined as exactly 12.
I stand corrected. I couldn’t remember if it was oxygen or carbon that became the standard. I found the following link and stopped when I read “A number of elements had atomic weights that were nearly whole numbers on the oxygen=16 standard.” Should have been more careful. Guess I am sloppy 🙂 Anyway, thanks for the correction!
http://books.google.com/books?id=3ZGW6wE5JDYC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=official+atomic+weight+asimov&source=web&ots=QZP4FDH4Ie&sig=iufIwczvboAlGzaJGCah-R33TFs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA14,M1
John-X (13:35:19) :
“June 27, 2008 During the annual Space Weather Workshop held in Boulder, CO in May, 2008, the Solar Cycle 24 Prediction Panel released an update to the prediction for the next solar cycle. In short, the update is that the panel has not yet made any changes to the prediction issued in April, 2007…”
I think they are in a slight hurry? Their prediction is that solar minimum is to occur in March, 2008 (+/-6months). Given that minimum is established 6 months after the fact, the cycle 24 spots must pick up relatively soon now for minimum to occur within March 2008+6months, i.e. September 2008?
I think NOAA has left it at 0?
John-X (13:35:19) :
Leon Brozyna (12:48:50) :
“…whether they report a value of 0 or .5 for August is a minor matter. What I’m waiting to see happen is for Hathaway to pull his team together to revise their prediction on SC24.”
And that might not happen until Spring
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/SC24/index.html
“The Panel expects to update this prediction annually.”
Do not confuse Hathaway [and his team] with the SWPC panel prediction. they have nothing to do with each other [apart from the fact that David was once a member of the panel].