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Foreword by the blog moderator:
One of the things that often happens once your blog and effort is well known is that people start sending you things to look at and/or do. That’s the case here. There has been much discussion web-wide over AIT and potential inaccuracies in the presentation by Gore, but I have not taken on the subject here in any detail since I have my http://www.surfacestations.org/ USHCN weather station census requiring a good portion of my time. Nonetheless, when I was offered this review, it seemed to be quite comprehensive in scope, and done by a person who worked in aeronautic systems engineering, a very detail oriented job that combines many disciplines. He had a thirty-three year career at Boeing, beginning as a software engineer in data reduction and flight simulation and retiring as the Chief Engineer of the Electronic Systems Division.
While AIT has been reviewed by many, I thought this review had some interesting points. Therefore, as a catalyst for discussion, here is Bob’s review of AIT with no editing nor commentary on my part.
UPDATE 10/5/07 A few commenters pointed out that there was a mistake that needed correcting. Mr. Edleman requested I repost his newly edited version that corrects a mistake in attribution of the institution Dr. Phil Jones is tenured at. Some additional format changes were made for readability by Mr. Edelman.
by Bob Edelman
October 3, 2007
My sister viewed Al Gore’s movie, An Inconvenient Truth, and was disturbed enough to ask my opinion. In her words, “if the story is mostly true, we’d better stop the ideological wrangling and get busy salvaging what we can”. After some prodding I reluctantly rented the DVD and prepared the following comments in response. My conclusion is that the movie is mostly misleading and, yes, we’d better stop the ideological wrangling and consider the facts.
Comments on An Inconvenient Truth
Most of my comments pertain to the climatology science presented in the movie although I do include a discussion of charges made by NASA’s James Hansen that his scientific findings have been suppressed. I also discuss the issue of scientific consensus. I gave a pass to most of the trivial errors although I couldn’t help pointing out some that jumped out at me. Please forgive the nit-picking. A few words about the general circulation models (GCMs) used to predict climate change. Al Gore didn’t explicitly discuss the models that he used or the accuracy of his predictions so I don’t discuss them in my comments. Yet whenever he discusses future climate he necessarily is either guessing or relying on someone’s GCM. Given that no model has ever been validated I believe that the state-of-the-art still has a long way to go before climatologists can make predictions good enough to drive policy. One glaring hole in climate models is adequate modeling of precipitation systems. They are not modeled well because they are not understood. Yet precipitation systems are extremely important to moderating climate. A recently published study of tropical precipitation systems by Dr. Roy Spencer supports the existence of a strong negative feedback to temperature increases rather then the assumed positive feedback now modeled in GCMs. Once such systems are understood and modeled properly we may find why the earth’s climate is not as fragile as some would have us believe. After all, the earth once had an atmosphere consisting of mostly greenhouse gasses (carbon dioxide, methane and water vapor) and nitrogen, yet life and the climate evolved. The following comments are organized in the same chronology as the film. I suggest that you view An Inconvenient Truth on DVD and follow along since it is difficult to insert Gore’s slides into my comments. The most significant comments are in bold.
1. The story about his sixth grade teacher may or may not be true – she may have been reflecting her own sixth grade education. The point of his story, however, was fabricated. He ends the story by saying that “the teacher was actually reflecting the conclusion of the scientific establishment at that time: Continents are so big that obviously they don’t move.” When Gore was in the sixth grade (about 1960) the scientific community had generally accepted the concept of continental drift.
2. Gore’s explanation of the greenhouse effect is grossly over-simplified. The sun’s radiation reaches the earth in a broad spectrum, not just “light”. The warm earth emits long infrared radiation. Some of that radiation is absorbed by greenhouse gasses, the most significant of which is water vapor followed by CO2. The energy is re-radiated at wave lengths that differ from the excitation radiation. Most of the re-radiated energy is lost to space but some reaches the earth where it contributes to keeping the atmosphere at a comfortable temperature. The radiation is not “trapped”.
3. In his explanation of the greenhouse effect he incorrectly equates it to global warming. This helps create the perception that people who disagree with his conclusions deny the existence of global warming and/or the greenhouse effect. Actually, there is general agreement on the following:
- There is a greenhouse effect. It makes our planet livable.
- CO2 is a greenhouse gas. There is disagreement as to its significance since water vapor is, by far, the most important.
- There was global warming on the order of about 1ºF during the twentieth century. There is disagreement as to its cause.
4. The assertion that his professor, Roger Revelle, was the first person to have the idea to measure the amount of CO2 in the earth’s atmosphere is false. Scientists have been measuring atmospheric CO2 since well before Revelle was born and the measurements showing increased concentrations were reported 20 years before Revelle’s study. Also, Gore implies that Revelle was concerned about the global warming effects of increased CO2 emissions. He wasn’t. In fact, Revelle is on record saying that increased CO2 could be beneficial and that it is too early (in 1991) for drastic action to prevent global warming effects.
5. The assertion that the ice cap on Mount Kilimanjaro is disappearing because of global warming is not correct. It is generally accepted that the cause is desiccation of the atmosphere that resulted from deforestation. The temperature at the ice cap has remained at about minus 7ºC, indicating that ice cap loss has been from ablation (sublimation) to the dry atmosphere, not melting.
6. The use of Glacier National Park as an example of man-caused (anthropogenic) global warming is wrong. Those glaciers have been receding since the beginning of record keeping. In fact, the rate of retreat was greater 75 years ago then now.
7. The idea that the world’s glaciers are disappearing because of CO2 stretches credibility. Remember, the 20th century increase in temperature has been about 1ºF, much of which occurred before the era of large CO2 emissions. Most glaciers in temperate climates are relics of the ice age and have been receding since that time. Nevertheless, a large number of glaciers are growing, none of which were shown in the film, and only a small percentage of glaciers have been studied for mass balance changes out of the 67,000 that have been inventoried. (Note: the rate of recession and the rate of mass loss are two different things.)
8. Gore shows a glacier calving to illustrate the horrors of global warming. “Here is what has been happening year by year to the Columbia Glacier. It just retreats more and more every year. And it is a shame because these glaciers are so beautiful. People who go up to see them, here is what they are seeing every day now.” Gore doesn’t seem to recognize that glacier ice slowly flows down-hill and calving is quite normal. A growing ice-cap will also calve.
9. The assertion that people in the Himalayas will lose their drinking water because of glacier melting in the next 40 years may be true, but not because of anthropogenic global warming. The Gangotri glacier has been receding as have most relics of the ice age. However, it is incorrect to blame it on recent global warming. Melting occurs in the summer and temperature records since 1875 show a history of decreasing summer temperatures. This illustrates the major problem with using glaciers to prove catastrophic anthropogenic global warming.
10. Gore attributes the retreat of a Peruvian glacier to global warming without mentioning the fact that the region has been cooling since the 1930’s. He also fails to mention the other South America glaciers that have been growing.
11. Gore makes these comments when showing a video of an ice-core sample: “When I was in Antarctica I saw cores like this and the guy looked at it. He said right here is where the US Congress passed the Clean Air Act. I couldn’t believe it but you can see the difference with the naked eye. Just a couple of years after that law was passed, it’s very clearly distinguishable.” I will give Gore the benefit of the doubt and say that he was the victim of a joke.
12. Gore incorrectly shows the infamous “hockey stick” chart as temperature history from ice-core data. This was actually from a study published by Dr. Michael Mann in 1999. He used tree ring data as a proxy for temperature for data up to the 20th century and then tacked on thermometer data. The graph shows a slow decline in global temperature for 1,000 years (the shaft of the hockey stick) and then a sudden increase in the 20th century (the blade of the hockey stick). The study was quickly accepted by global warming alarmists without adequate review because it wiped out the pesky Medieval Warm Period (MWP) and the Little Ice Age. Some scientists raised a number of questions about the lack of agreement with previous studies and the historical record. Two Canadians, McIntyre and McKitrick, attempted to examine the methodology and, after much difficulty in acquiring data and software algorithms, were able to show gross errors in the use of statistical techniques. This controversy culminated in two studies requested by congress. The first was by the National Research Council (at the NRC’s suggestion) which gave some credence to Mann’s study although limiting it to 400 years. No statisticians were on the committee and, it turns out, most of the committee had professional connections to Dr Mann. A second independent study by a team of mathematicians was requested and headed by Dr. Edward J. Wegman. The Wegman study thoroughly discredited the Mann study because of invalid use of statistical techniques and found that the conclusions by Mann could not be supported. However, some still cling to the hockey stick. Gore is apparently one of them.
13. Gore uses the discredited hockey stick to downplay the MWP and deride scientists who have shown the importance of climate change cycles. There have been numerous studies before and after the Mann study that show, through other proxies, the global extent of and magnitude of the MWP. There is ample evidence that the planet was warmer during the MWP then it is now. There are also numerous studies that show the existence of various cycles, such as the earth’s orbital cycles, and how those cycles can affect major climate changes.
14. When Gore does display the ice-core data he incorrectly uses it to assert that CO2 is directly responsible for global temperature change. This is the most egregious error in the movie.
“Now an important point: In all of this time, 650,000 years, the CO2 level has never gone above 300 parts per million. Now, as I said, they can also measure temperature. Here is what the temperature has been on our earth. One thing that kind of jumps out at you is… Let me put it this way. If my class mate from the sixth grade that talked about Africa and South America might have said, “Did they ever fit together?” Most ridiculous thing I ever heard. But they did of course. The relationship is very complicated. But there is one relationship that is more powerful than all the others and it is this. When there is more carbon dioxide, the temperature gets warmer, because it traps more heat from the sun inside.“
All technical studies of ice-cores show the same thing; CO2 increases follow temperature increases and CO2 decreases follow temperature decreases. In other words, ice-core data show that temperature changes drive CO2 changes to a very large extent. The actual amount of the lag varies from different studies but it is approximately 800 years. The reason for the lag is postulated to be the delayed release and absorption of CO2 from the oceans, the earth’s largest reservoir of carbon. The reason for the large delay is the huge depth of the oceans and the time that it takes a temperature change to propagate. Gore and his technical advisors are certainly well aware of these facts.
15. The ice-core graph along with estimates of CO2 growth is used to give the impression that the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is greater than ever before in history and that it is going “off the chart”. In truth, CO2 concentrations have been much higher in geologic history. During the Cambrian Period (543 to 490 million years ago), concentrations were as high as 18 times the present level. It was during this period that there was an explosion of diverse life on earth (called the Cambrian explosion) and almost all living animal groups appeared. At the end of the Ordovician Period (490 to 443 million years ago) the earth experienced an Ice Age, yet CO2 concentrations were almost 12 times the present level. CO2 concentrations were almost 5 times higher during the Jurassic Period (206 to 144 million years ago), yet life thrived. These facts are at odds with the assertion a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere will be catastrophic to life.
16. Gore’s claim that there is no controversy over the amount of CO2 growth in the next 50 years is wrong.
17. Gore shows a chart purporting to be actual temperatures since the Civil War. (Note that the film doesn’t expose the dependent axis. If he did it would emphasize how small the changes in temperature were.) Gore states:
“These are actual measurements of atmospheric temperature since our civil war. In any given year it might look like it’s going down, but the overall trend is extremely clear. In recent years it is uninterrupted and it is intensifying. In fact, if you look at the 10 hottest years ever measured in this atmospheric record, they have all occurred in the last 14 years. The hottest of all was 2005.“
He can be forgiven for having been misled by a close advisor, Dr. James Hansen who heads the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). Hansen has recently been forced to admit that errors were made in correcting raw data and that the hottest year was 1934. Here is the new ranking: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939.
This change in ranking came about because of the efforts of non-professionals. GISS derives temperature from a large network of stations in the United States. They have been severely criticized for using stations that are poorly placed so that significant error is introduced by artificially induced local heating and urbanization. GISS filters the data to extract very low temperature change signals from the very large temperature noise. A former TV meteorologist, Anthony Watts, voluntarily maintains a web site where individuals have been recruited to examine stations in a systematic manner and post photographs and station characteristics. To date, records for about 33% of the stations in the US Historical Climatology Network have been surveyed. There are numerous examples of poor placement such as near heat exchangers, on or near concrete, exposure to jet airplane exhaust, and even exposure to a burn barrel. The record of one station located near two air conditioner exhausts showed a sudden increase in temperature readings when the air conditioners were installed. It was noted, however, that the discontinuity continued in the winter when the air conditioners were presumed to be off. This got the attention of Steven McIntyre, the same Canadian who discovered the hockey stick math problems. He attempted to get the data reduction algorithms from Hansen but was refused access. (Refusing review of one’s work is not how responsible scientists behave.) McIntyre was forced to reverse engineer data from a number of stations and found a “Y2K” problem, i.e., discrepancies were introduced in the year 2000. Hansen has now admitted that he made errors when transitioning to a different data set but still refuses to divulge his methods. (I have more to say about Hansen later.)
18. The connection of heat waves to global warming is grossly exaggerated. Remember, the 20th century increase in temperature has been about 1ºF.
19. Gore claims that the oceans have warmed (by about .2 degrees according to his chart). Harison and Carson of the University of Washington studied 50 years of data from 1950 to 2000 and concluded that there was no warming evident. (Their data actually show cooling from 1980 to 1999.) They concluded that “The ocean neither cooled nor warmed systematically over the large parts of the ocean for the entire analysis period.”
20. Gore claims that increased hurricane activity is caused by global warming. This claim is not supported by empirical studies. In fact, a recent study of tropical cyclones in Australia from 1226 to 2003 showed a decrease in the frequency and intensity of hurricanes in the last 100 years. (It is interesting how the researchers got records that old. They found that a heavy isotope of oxygen, O-18, is deficient in precipitation from cyclones. They measured the deficiency of O-18 deposited in stalagmite layers as a proxy for cyclone intensity and then validated their method against records of modern cyclones.)
21. The claim that Lake Chad drying is caused by global warming is not correct. NASA concluded that water use and grazing are the probable causes.
22. Gore shows a dramatic photo of a crack in the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf to illustrate “faster impacts from global warming” in the Artic and says that “scientists were astonished”. Some may have been surprised but scientists who have studied the ice shelf point out that it is a remnant of a larger feature that has been contracting since the end of the Little Ice Age and had already lost 90% during the period 1906-1982 due to calving.
23. Gore shows a photo of a house that was built on permafrost and sunk when the permafrost melted. Solution: Don’t build a house on permafrost unless you plan to keep the living areas below freezing. (Alaskans figured this one out a long time ago.)
24. A chart that purports to show that “there was a precipitous drop off in the amount and extent and thickness of the arctic ice cap” starting in 1970 is questionable. It has been reported that the data points were not all taken at the same time of the year. Also, 1970 was the end of a 25 year cooling period. Dr. Dick Morgan, a climatology researcher at the University of Exeter wrote: “There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001.”
25. The animation of the desperate polar bear is representative of nothing. Polar bear population is increasing or stable in all areas except where there has been cooling! As a species they have survived much warmer temperatures seen 6000 years ago.
26. Gore does a good job of describing the thermohaline pump and how the pump was shut down when a huge lake of fresh water was suddenly dumped into the ocean at the end of the ice age. However, he seems to imply that slow melting of the icecap will produce the same effect. This is not correct and no scientist worth his halide would make that claim.
27. The claims that global warming is causing “exotic” species to appear where they were never seen before and outbreaks of disease have little or no basis. For example:
- “You’ve heard of the pine beetle problem? Those pine beetles used to be killed by the cold winter, but there are fewer days of frost. So the pine trees are being devastated.” Actually the pine beetle is native to areas where large outbreaks occurred. Small outbreaks became large because of forest management problems.
- “There are cities that were founded because they were just above the mosquito line. Nairobi is one. Harare is another. There are plenty of others. Now the mosquitoes with warming are climbing to hirer altitudes.” This is nonsense. These cities have always had mosquitoes and malaria. Malaria was a world-wide disease, including the United States at one time.
- “The Avian flu, of course is quite a serious matter, as you know. West Nile Virus came to the eastern shore of Maryland in 1999. Two years later it was across the Mississippi. And two years after that it had spread across the continent.” More nonsense. Avian flu (or any other kind) is not associated with higher temperatures. West Nile Virus is a mosquito-borne virus that came from Israel. According to the CDC, the virus was never confined to tropical areas. The fact that these diseases spread to temperate areas contradicts Gore’s claim that they spread because of global warming.
28. Gore’s discussion of the Antarctic focuses on the dramatic break up of the Larsen B ice-shelf in Western Antarctica. Andrew Monaghan of Ohio State University’s Byrd Polar Research Center and 15 colleagues have been studying the thickness of the ice cap. They point to evidence that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has been thinning over the past decade, while the East Antarctic Ice Sheet has thickened. A lot of work needs to be done to explain just what is happening in the Antarctic and concentrating on one single event can give a very distorted picture.
29. Gore makes another absurd claim that Pacific islanders were forced to evacuate to New Zealand when part of the Antarctic ice shelf broke off. Dr Chris de Freitas, a climate scientist from the University of Auckland stated: “I can assure Mr. Gore that no one from the South Pacific islands has fled to New Zealand because of rising seas. In fact, if Gore consults the data, he will see it shows sea level falling in some parts of the Pacific.”
30. Gore postulates a 20 foot rise in sea level if the Greenland ice cap or the Antarctic ice cap melted. He then shows the devastation that would occur from such a chance in sea level. No reputable scientist is predicting such a huge magnitude rise in sea level. Even the global warming alarmists on the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have projected a range of only 18-59cm at the end of this century based on various models and scenarios.
31. The map showing that the US contributed 30% to global warming is actually a map produced by the World Resource Institute that purports to show CO2 emissions resulting from fossil fuel combustion. Global warming and fossil fuel consumption are not the same thing. Nor are global warming and CO2 emissions the same thing. Even if they were the map doesn’t show other sources of CO2 such as the 30% that Gore claims comes from burning wood.
32. Gore says:
“There was a massive study of every scientific article in a peer reviewed article written on global warming in the last ten years. They took a big sample of 10 percent, 928 articles. And you know the number of those that disagreed with the scientific consensus that we’re causing global warming and that is a serious problem out of the 928: Zero.“
Anyone familiar with the scientific literature knows better. The study that he is referring to was conducted by social scientist Dr. Naomi Oreske. Another social scientist, Dr. Benny Peiser of the UK, attempted to verify Oreske’s study. The following is his summary:
“I replicated her study in order to assess the accuracy of its results. All abstracts listed on the ISI databank for 1993 to 2003 using the same keywords (‘global climate change’) were assessed. The results of my analysis contradict Oreskes’ findings and essentially falsify her study: Of all 1117 abstracts, only 13 (1%) explicitly endorse the ‘consensus view’. However, 34 abstracts reject or question the view that human activities are the main driving force of ‘the observed warming over the last 50 years’.
Oreskes claims that ‘none of these papers argued [that current climate change is natural]’. However, 44 papers emphasise that natural factors play a major if not the key role in recent climate change.
The most significant discrepancy with Oreskes’ results concern abstracts that are undecided whether human activities are the dominant driving force of recent warming. My analysis shows that a significant number of abstracts reject what Oreskes calls the ‘consensus view’. In fact, there are almost three times as many abstracts that are unconvinced of the notion of anthropogenic climate change than those that explicitly endorse it.”
Two German environmental scientist, Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch, conducted an extensive survey of 530 climate scientists from 27 different countries in 2003. (A similar survey was conducted in 1996.) On the critical assertion, “human activity is causing climate change” only 55.8% agreed, 30% disagreed, and the rest were uncertain. This is hardly unanimous agreement.
In a recent analysis of peer-reviewed studies, Dennis Avery and Fred Singer listed more than 500 climate scientists whose studies confirmed that climate change is a natural phenomenon.
There is no consensus. Even if there were it would have no value in science. Proof leads to consensus, not the other way around.
33. Gore claims: “The misconception that there is disagreement about the science has been deliberately created by a relatively small number of people. One of their internal memos leaked and here is what it said according to the press. Their objective is to reposition global warming as a theory rather than fact.” I know of no efforts to “reposition global warming as a theory”. All reputable scientists recognize that there has been warming since the little ice age. However, “anthropogenic global warming leading to disastrous results” is properly positioned as theory.
34. The movie shows testimony before the Senate from 1989 where James Hanson reveals that the final paragraph in his testimony was written by OMB during its review. The movie leaves the impression that scientific findings were changed. What actually happened is this: OMB added a sentence that Hansen’s conclusions “should be viewed as estimates from evolving computer models and not as reliable predictions.” Hansen phoned Gore and requested that he ask about the changes during the hearing. As it turns out, Hansen’s predictions were not reliable and his faith in them was not scientifically based.
Hansen openly admits to ignoring NASA media policies and frequently has made accusations of political interference since 1988. Recently, the Washington Post reported:
“The debate has been intensifying because Earth is warming much faster than some researchers had predicted. James E. Hansen, who directs NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies, last week confirmed that 2005 was the warmest year on record, surpassing 1998. Earth’s average temperature has risen nearly 1 degree Fahrenheit over the past 30 years, he noted, and another increase of about 4 degrees over the next century would ‘imply changes that constitute practically a different planet.’
‘It’s not something you can adapt to,’ Hansen said in an interview. ‘We can’t let it go on another 10 years like this. We’ve got to do something.’
This tipping point debate has stirred controversy within the administration; Hansen said senior political appointees are trying to block him from sharing his views publicly.
When Hansen posted data on the Internet in the fall suggesting that 2005 could be the warmest year on record, NASA officials ordered Hansen to withdraw the information because he had not had it screened by the administration in advance, according to a Goddard scientist who spoke on the condition of anonymity. More recently, NASA officials tried to discourage a reporter from interviewing Hansen for this article and later insisted he could speak on the record only if an agency spokeswoman listened in on the conversation.
‘They’re trying to control what’s getting out to the public,’ Hansen said, adding that many of his colleagues are afraid to talk about the issue. ‘They’re not willing to say much, because they’ve been pressured and they’re afraid they’ll get into trouble.'”
Again, Hansen turned out to be wrong and has had to revise his data. (See previous discussion about hottest years.) He now downplays its importance and blatantly lies about past practices. The following is from a recent article in the New York Times:
“Dr. Hansen and his team note that they rarely, if ever, discuss individual years, particularly regional findings like those for the United States (the lower 48 are only 2 percent of the planet’s surface). ‘In general I think that we want to avoid going into more and more detail about ranking of individual years,’ he said in an e-mail message. ‘As far as I remember, we have always discouraged that as being somewhat nonsensical.'”
Hansen has made a number of other incorrect predictions but he continues to hype the dangers of anthropogenic global warming. If past and present administrations have been attempting to suppress Hansen they have been spectacularly ineffective. Google his name and you will see what I mean.

Jim Clark, we’re describing the same phenomena from different angles, however your angle is more concise stated then I am capable of…my apologies for the length of this post.
The most striking similarity between all apocalyptic claims from Revelations, through Malhus to the Club of Rome and now AIT is that they are all false, but that’s not the point.
As Ed Edelman correctly notes the universal motive for apocalyptic prophecies is the desire to control economic resources and drive specific social behaviors by the elites that control the prophecies. Note that this crass motive does not have to be understood as such by the priests or technocrats administering the myth. They are the true believers.
I’m using the term myth here not to mean a lie but rather a holistic system of thought that answers the universal human questions. Truth and falseness is a whole other issue.
Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? What should I do? How will I do it? These are the questions that humans have asked since time immemorial. We are hardwired to crave the answers in order to achieve our full humanity. A coherent mythological system answers the above questions comprehensively. Today we find our answers from a multitude of sources–religion, ethnic identity, scientific materialism, theories of economics and political ideologies.
In less heterogeneous times past, single mythologies encapsulated whole cultures creating an airtight portal through which a group viewed the world.
Captain Cook off the coast of Australia watched the indigenous people on the beach and wondered why they didn’t return glances of shock, or any emotion at all for that matter at the sight of his ship, surely the first they had ever seen. The Aboriginals on the beach saw only their dead ancestors who were always hanging about in some odd form or another, nothing to get chuffed about, and simply continued with their business. The actual shipness of Cook’s ship was invisible to them, although of course, their eyes physical functioned the same as yours or mine.
Myths so define our handle on reality that it is difficult, if not impossible, to really understand, say, an Achilles’ or Montezuma’s world from our modern perspective. The point is that we are generally unconscious to the fact that we too are encapsulated in a great, highly sophisticated, mythological artifice, albeit one that so precisely represents many aspects of nature that we can measure sub-atomic particles and map genomes. Just recite the so-called Big Bang creation scenario to yourself for a moment. Nor do we usually grasp that there is a potential for our myth, call it a paradigm, if you find that more modern, to be appropriated and then twisted into something quite degenerative and destructive to our most basic humanist values.
Since the 1950’s there has been an emergent mythological stream, as old as the hills, really, and not fully coalesced as a single consciousness, but moving together as related groups of sociopolitical memes–Greens, social justice movements, new agers, wiccans, nativists, ecological direct action movements such as Earth First of Northern California, anarchists, pacifists, luddites and anti-globalists, etc. Imagine a three dimensional space defined by a social y axis, a political x axis and a spiritual z axis, all these groups, and others like minded wanderers would be found huddled together in the lower left, left quadrant of the space. I’m not making any value judgment; all these memes have something to offer the mainstream if nothing more than diversity.
It’s likely that the Anthropogenic Global Warming Apocalypse myth will provide these groups with a single, persuasive and elegantly simple answer to the who, what, why, where and how of existence that they have all been so desperately searching for and not finding in modern Western societies.
The most appealing part of the AGWA myth is the apocalypse prophecies, because it confirms their one most deeply cherished belief—Western civilization is an evil and destructive force. And promotes their most cherished hope that Western civilization can be put down and replaced by some sort of vague harmonic convergence of collectivist, green, matriarchal culture in a post-modern utopia.
Normally, there would be little concern that such marginal and ineffective groups even united would amount to anything more than perhaps a greater influence in the art and music scenes, effecting politics through a slow cultural osmosis rather than direct political power.
However, Al Gore backed by the might of the entire center left of politics and the media, in the most powerful nations on Earth are throwing their combined political weight behind an apocalypse myth with the power to unite and rejuvenate the most disparate cliques of a broad coalition, including the extreme fringe elements. The fringe is important because for a long, long time they have been alienated from mainstream politics. AGWA will give them the vindication and clout they need to return to the fray with their cultural innovations.
An apocalyptic myth spawning a political ideology will tend to drive the normally rational and centered mass of humanity towards the fringes since their contented existence is prophesized to soon end. Meanwhile, leadership from the fringe is empowered by their uncanny prescience, while the mainstream politicians, if they don’t radicalize their views rapidly, are seen as too weak or out-of-touch to deal with the coming apocalypse.
Who are we? We are love children of Gaia. Where are we going? We are going to fight for Gaia. Why are we here? We are here to save Gaia from those who would rape and murder her out of greed. What are we to do? We must act now before it is too late, the consensus is already in.
How are we to do it? Ahhh! That is the sixty trillion dollar question isn’t it? It’s the reason why Johnny-come-lately power brokers like Al Gore and his natural political allies around the world are now, quite suddenly, taking ownership of the AGW apocalypse myth.
The cyclone coming from the chimney on the DVD cover of AIT isn’t a hurricane, it is the gathering of all the disparate forces–political, cultural, spiritual and social into a new united order, driven by a powerful and elegantly simple mythology that anyone can grasp, stronger by a thousand fold then its individual parts, a whole far greater than the sum.
I didn’t mean to suggest that there were “Absolutely” people on this forum who don’t support that research! I suspect most people posting here would support newer, cleaner, better energy sources.
Vipertrunk, I also have to apologize. The question was worded badly. Like you, I suspect there are few if any AGW skeptics who post here (or anywhere, for that matter) that believe developing new, better, cleaner, cheaper forms of energy is a bad idea. Where we mostly part company with the Alarmists is with regard to what should drive the R & D. You and I (and most everyone else) are on the same page, and your original post at 22:17:06 was right on the money.
Jim Clarke,
I’ve read “The 5 steps of Despotism” before, and the name of the writer escapes me too, but the AGW Alarmists do seem to have a good grasp of the concept.
BTW, KUDOS to Bob Edelman for sparking such an interesting and informative debate (and to Anthony for publishing Bob’s analysis).
I doubt it. Already alarmists attribute every “extreme” weather event to global warming, no matter if it’s a deep freeze or a heat wave. No matter what happens naturally, it will be our fault.
Vipertrunk- you say
“I don’t know if anyone has done a “peak uranium” study, but I’m not confident that we could go “all nuclear” and meet our current total energy needs.”
Your concerns are well-founded.
Hoffert et al. published a summary of world energy technologies in Science in 2002, in which they report that existing Uranium reserves recovered using conventional mining techniques at conventional mines will only support at most 30 years of generation at 10 TW/year (world power production in 2002 was 12 TW/year). They go on to propose a number of fission and fission/fusion technologies (Breeder reactors and Thorium burners among them) that show promise of extending this limit out by at least a factor of ten. So, building a whole mess of PWR fission plants using today’s technology will not provide a long-term (century or more) global solution. Research on new nuclear technologies is required.
The “peak uranium” argument has pitfalls, since it relies on proven reserves which depend on the the price of the commodity. The time evolution of world proven oil reserves has provided an ongoing lesson for the “peak commodity” theory. Alberta became owner of the second largest proven oil reserve in the world in 2006 when development of tar sands became economical. Colorado and Wyoming will have the largest proven oil reserves in the world (by far) when shale oil becomes economical to produce. Of course, at that price point, unsubsidized solar and wind will also be economically viable.
Stan wrote: “Are there any other GW/climate change skeptics here who don’t think we, as a civiliazation should be constantly exploring and seeking out new, better and cleaner forms of, preferably, renewable energy?”
I’m all for renewable energy and I conserve whenever and where ever I can (ask my kids how many times they have heard TURN OFF THAT LIGHT!). But the environment is the secondary driver for me. I conserve to save my capital for other uses. The problem is you have to have a certain amount of wealth before long term survival can be considered along with day to day survival.
In my view, the underlying factor in all the immediate problems of the planet is the lack of capitalism and freedom. Disasters strike around the world and the impact on lives follows with the economic ability of the population. Ethiopia suffered famines as a result of a ruthless dictator preventing food distribution in addition to a drought. The next time a disaster is reported, be it an earth quake or storm, compare the death toll to the relative political and economic freedom of the population. I think that would make an interesting study.
When you make the most efficient use of capital, you develop drought resistant crops, technologies that prevent coastal devastation, and more efficient HVAC systems, because there is a demand that free and talented people will move to meet. Sure beats central planning.
V.
You can go further than that. One might well say that Green Mother Gaia reched out her leafy fingers in her Wholesome Goodness and gave to man, her custodian, the pristine blessing of the internal combustion engine.
And therefore the environment was saved.
Those who have read their history and know the Dirty Story of Coal, Horses, and Agriculture will appreciate the complete lack of irony in the declaration above.
(P.S., Stan, a bad liberal has looked at both sides of issues such as these and is not afraid to draw the obvious conclusions.)
As for China and India, I repeat that they will (without international accords) clean up their act in due time same as the west did, and furthermore they’ll be quicker about it than we were.
Invevitable cycles work in social history same as they do for climate. Not until a nation can easily sustain its basic needs will it “clean up”. No nation (with the partial exception of the beastly Sovs) ever failed to clean up once its basic needs were met.
“the small and shrinking pool of people who know enough to follow the science and have a reasonable chance of sorting through the often deceptive and misleading arguments. ”
Take it from an old historian that in the Good Old Days the intellectual pool was miniscule. Almost nobody could read, often not leven the local honcho, bone-rattler, or quack. (The Scopes trial was around 1920.)
Sad to say, we’re better equipped for the debate than ever before.
Demonweed,
You have made several factual assertions, including these:
1. For thousands of years there has been relative balance in the expansion and contraction of glaciers.
2. Only in recent decades have normal cycles of melting and thawing given way to an unmistakable trend of rapid thawing that goes beyond loss of relatively fresh ice and into the widespread melting of ancient ice.
3. An overwhelming majority of contemporary glaciers are shrinking at a rate unprecedented at any point in human history.
Please forgive me for not just taking your word for it. Would you be kind enough to direct me to sources I might read to decide for myself whether your assertions are correct?
Mr Edelman does a nice job here with a reality based and as far as I can tell fair evaluation of An inconveniet truth.
And that is just the point, someone like demonweed with his crude remarks does not disprove Edelmans points and many of his non crude points are either incorrect or deliberate obfuscation.
I see a lot of I am not a scientist but… type comments on this issue. Well I am a scientist and scientific method is what I’m good at. The idea that “anthropogenic catastrophic global warming” is real and an immediate threat is pure rubbish.
The amazing thing is the lack of consensus. The US alone spends $6 billion per year to fund climate research with the clear understanding that only studies that support AGW will continue to be funded. Anyone whose research seems to disprove any part of the global warming story can expect to have their funding cut and all their researchers thrown out of work with a permanent black mark on their record.
In other words the “skeptics” are chosing to be such in direct conflict with their own self interest. What you’re seeing with them is scientific integrity.
Small wonder it has been called the new McCarthyism. I doubt the black lists of the 50’s were ever this damaging. Perhaps the new Eugenics would be a better description.
I am glad, Robert, to see curiosity brought to bear here. I don’t think this one is for you, but for people who want a quick light read that is only very slightly misleading . . .
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/kids/change.html
That content emphasizes uncertainty a little much, since the past twenty years have seen much progress in replacing speculation with observation and analysis. In any case, it is a good primer young people with no prior knowledge, and I hope that it would also serve as a “back to reality” tool for people who normally take their views on science from political punditry.
Now, I’ll try to respond to specific points as well. However, here is the big picture that made all those localized explanations, apparently fabricated by someone who had already excluded any notion that global warming might actually be a factor, for the glaciers Gore sited. Even if one or two of those glaciers really are more heavily influenced by factors unrelated to global warming, the general trend is clear. Here’s an EPA comment . . .
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.html
“Scientists have observed that some changes are already occurring. Observed effects include sea level rise, shrinking glaciers, changes in the range and distribution of plants and animals, trees blooming earlier, lengthening of growing seasons, ice on rivers and lakes freezing later and breaking up earlier, and thawing of permafrost.”
Note the use of past tense. These are things scientific experts in the field actually have documented, not fictions created to service a political agenda.
Holy crap! A good bit of time passed between starting this comment and just now. Of course no serious scientist is contending something as patently absurd as “glaciers are relics of the ice age that have been melting off ever since.” Forget glaciology — anyone out there with moderate math skills should be able to handle that. If anything resembling 20th century rates of decline was an ongoing process since the last full blown ice age, well over 10,000 years ago, then at that time these glaciers must have contained more water than there is on Earth, if not all our solar system. The continuous retreat scenario makes no sense because if you wind it backward just a few thousand years, the glaciers become much larger than any mountain that could stand up to Earth’s gravity . . . and I gather ice is a little less tough that way than granite.
That analysis and the conventional scientific wisdom that glaciers were never highly variable but for proper ice ages, major supervolcano/basalt eruptions, extraterrestrial impact events, and this recent phenomenon concurrent with industrial CO2 output. As it turns out, I haven’t kept up to date on the state of the art in glaciology (not it ever was a specialty of mine.)
Here’s a good article that touches upon this new way of thinking . . .
http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0109-ualberta.html
It reveals unexpected discoveries in efforts to analyze the footprints of glaciers in western North America as they existed from 0-1000 AD. In some sense it is still in line with my thinking on the subject — clearly the evidence does not support some crazy process whereby supernaturally large glaciers constantly shrunk from original formation until they reached their present sizes. It also does not suggest that anything resembling the rapid loss of ice ongoing at present might have happened during those thousand years. On the other hand, it does suggest the variability during that millennium was nontrivial, and that sounds like it was a surprise even to the experts.
In deference to Mr. Edelman though, retreat from the last proper ice age was not at all an instantaneous process. The following URL features an excellent little animation that illustrates a legitimately continuous process from the last ice age as pertains to the sheet that once covered much of North America.
http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/index.html
Note how small the vestiges of the ice age had become by 8,000 years ago. Though the term “glacial” epitomizes slowness, hopefully everyone understands that high altitude glaciers from the tropics to the Rockies do not process precipitation -that- slowly.
Now, I do owe the group a mea culpa. I thought I recalled from Nova or some other such source that tropical rain belt migration, which is not actually global warming but which is driven by it, was the primary cause of Kilimanjaro’s glacier loss. Apparently, either NASA isn’t splitting that particular hair or Al Gore had it right all along. Either way, here is the agency’s opinion on the matter . . .
“The 11,000 year-old ice-cap on the summit of Africa’s Mount Kilimanjaro has almost completely disappeared, primarily due to increasing average annual temperatures in the region.”
taken from
http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a003100/a003125/index.html
In fact
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/earthandsun/climate_change.html
is an excellent resource for people who want to ditch politics altogether and let scientists explain the science of this empirical reality.
I wish I could be more on point with this stuff, but I don’t want to get pre-filtered as spam for overdoing it with the URLs. While it is wrong to suggest I was deliberately false with anything I’ve written here, and just as wrong to suggest I go around filling myself with lies to accommodate some sort of political identity (umm . . . glass houses and stones, anyone?) it is fair to assess my opinions as little more than that. I wrote from recollections that are informed by extensive relevant reading along with a smattering of documentary views, but I haven’t even seen An Inconvenient Truth. I heard it was a sleepy film, and I didn’t expect Al Gore to tell me much about the matter I couldn’t get from apolitical scientists.
The problem is this fishbowl of special media that enables people to fall back on the work of political scientists (or more often, pseudoscientists.) This thread is full of people talking about how “AIC has already been discredited” and “everybody knows it’s all a conspiracy to control people.” Yes, in tinfoil hat territory that is all well and good. Out in the non-partisan world, where people don’t need special newspapers and a special news channel to insulate them from certain types of information, no such picture is evident. Large corporations as well as national governments are taking action, or at least preparing plans to take action. Global warming denial is a cottage industry that is precisely like creationist propaganda mills in so many ways. It spins a false narrative not because the end result is a better informed audience, but rather because some people will flock to sources of misinformation if it is misinformation that validates their otherwise untenable views.
If you want to learn about distinctions between races, you can do better than to read The National Vanguard. Likewise, if you want to learn about what’s going on with the Earth’s climate, you can do better than to listen to . So far I’ve stuck with the EPA and NASA, because I figure those can’t be assailed as part of “the liberal media.” If false narratives have people skeptical of those agencies too, perhaps the next query for sources could include a few hints about what is acceptable. Now, knowing full well a portion of readers will find it unacceptable, I give you a Wikipedia submission graphically depicting trends in glacier size around the world . . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Glacier_Mass_Balance_Map.png
I’m really trying to address those questions directly, but my already long-winded comments would have been much much longer had I chosen exhaustive detail over glibness. Even now it is difficult to be sure I’ve not overlooked some critical aspect of the issue. By all means, please lob more questions my way if there are any points that could benefit from further clarification.
There is someting bugging me.
I seem to recall a little thing that went like this: Heat flows spontaneously from a body of greater temperature to one of lesser temperature. This is considered a “law”. Doesn’t the whole “greenhouse” hypothesis fly in the face of this thermodynamic property? We know for certain that there is no radiative “greenhouse” effect in a greenhouse, merely limitation of convection. I think it was attempted, but I don’t think any real measurements of “radiative forcing” in the atmosphere at large have been accomplished. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Mark Whitney
Sandy,Utah,USA
Paul Nevins
I’m sorry to go off-topic, but I like your reference to “the new eugenics” as opposed to the “new McCarthyism.” It is far more accurate. Eugenics was bogus science as opposed to McCarthy’s correct assertion of communist infiltration of the State Department. As far as I can ascertain, McCarthy’s single list of some 80 or so individuals caused few any real discomfort, other than himself. He never went after anyone in Hollywood. That was the HCUA in 1952. McCarthy became a Senator in 1953. It is relevant, however, as an example of obfuscation of the truth to achieve a desired result as in the current discussion of AGW.
Mr. Edelman, a very good analysis. I would echo the question of another poster: Have you done a similar evaluation of the Great Global Warming Swindle? I suspect the new version will hold up under scrutiny far better than Gore’s AIT.
Mark Whitney
Sandy,Utah,USA
Dear Mr. Whitney,
This article:
http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm
especially Fig. 4, might answer your question.
Robert
Thank’s for your reply. I glanced through Dr. Spencer’s presentation and will consider it in more detail later. My question stems from a publication by two German physicists.
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Falsification_of_CO2.pdf
My calculus skills are poor, so my ability to properly evaluate their argument is limited. Perhaps someone can offer clarification.
Mark Whitney
Sandy,Utah,USA
The AGW-ers are, to their mind, on the ascendancy. But they’re accelerating towards a wall of: A) economic finite resources where the cost of the prescription for the cure could exceed the cost of the disease; B) the economic benefits are shrinking for any policy as new scientific knowledge calls into question the efficacy of the preventive activity (C02 reduction) while the costs remained fixed at horrific levels (reduction of family income and wealth); C) for better or for worse, common-sense people will hope that delay of the inevitable economic consequences of inaction are, rightly, favorable to the costs of inaction; D) the AGW’ers get progressively associated with the Hate-Human-Society/Capitalism/Decentralized-Decision-Making/Autonomy-At-All-Cost-Faction; and E) the whole AGW effort is nothing but an end run to gain trump-card control of every aspect (economic, social and political) of our lives.
This not a rant. It’s an accurate statement of the goals and obstacles of the AGW effort to get control of our society and lives. I work with passionate bugs-and-bunnies types daily – I am not exaggerating in any way.
Robert & Mark Whitney,
I did see the telecast version of “The Great Global Warming Swindle” on Google Videos and thought that Channel 4 did a fine job. (I went back to view it again and found that it has been removed. That may be because of the full-length DVD has been released.) The original version had a few errors which, of course, were jumped on by the zealots. However, I thought it did an excellent job of graphically showing that there is no historic data verifying that CO2 drives temperature. In fact, ice core data shows the opposite tendency. I liked the illustrations of the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period although my favorite illustration of the Little Ice Age, Washington crossing an ice-choked Delaware River, wasn’t shown. (There may be some British sensitivity to that event.) I particularly liked the interviews with experts in various fields of climate research – something which Gore avoided.
Thank you for your comments. I didn’t know that the revised version is now available in NTSC format and have just now ordered the DVD. I expect that the few errors have been corrected.
A quick skim of that work attributed to two German men leads me to believe they expected every single reader would be so busy pretending to think critically about global warming science that they would never dare think critically about any critique of that science. Very early on they (as Spencer also did) hammer away at one of the “go to” points for deniers — carbon dioxide is a relatively small part of the Earth’s atmosphere. They then seem to argue that its interactions with radiant energy could never produce effects that were out of proportion to the gas’s concentration in the air.
Victims of similar tricks have been vocal in this discussion. Carbon dioxide is not visible to human eyes (unless you freeze it solid,) but it does really have some effect on some wavelengths of light. Imagine placing a single drop of red dye in a large bucket of water. You may very well now have a bucket with 0.03% dye and 99.97% water. Do you imagine it will look 99.97% clear after that change? Do you imagine red light will pass through it just the same as before?
The CO2 situation is a little different than that — more like there was one drop sitting naturally in the bucket and human industry is in the process of adding a second drop. The total amount will still be minor. If someone is interested in playing upon ignorance to create the perception that the amount is also irrelevant, there will be great focus on the fact that the part of the atmosphere that is not CO2 is way way way way way way way bigger than the part that is CO2. “There’s hardly any of it to begin with, so it really doesn’t matter,” may be nicely intuitive and satisfying on some simple-minded level, but “it really doesn’t matter” is nonetheless a very wrong conclusion to draw from “there’s hardly any of it to begin with.”
In any case, the German duo seems absolutely certain that there can be no such thing as an atmospheric greenhouse effect. Tell that to the planet Venus, eh?
Anyone at any time can sling around a mix of facts and faulty analysis to “convince” people to embrace beliefs already passionately heartfelt. Much of the lying that goes on to promote a political alternative to scientific thinking is unnecessary — skillful deceivers can get the same result just starting with a cherry-picked selection of truths, tossing in just a dash of fresh nonsense, then claiming it all “proves” what he or she already knows readers/listeners/viewers long to hear.
Roy Spencer is a special case in that the term “scientist” is not heavily abused when applied to him. He chooses his words carefully, and he normally doesn’t embrace anything as crazy as that German “there is no greenhouse effect in planetary atmospheres” stuff. A self-styled “global climate optimist,” the term suits Spencer as that is the main basis for his beliefs (or findings, if you prefer) — he has dedicated the remainder of his life to cultivating a case that the Earth will adapt to industrial emissions without inflicting much economic damage on human civilization.
While I still feel he may be deliberately misleading at times, he stands alone amongst “scientist” skeptics as not horrendously botching any actual science that may become entangled in his efforts. In fact, he seems to retain a scientist’s respect for authentic empirical methods. He is still guilty of the “carbon dioxide is so small we shouldn’t worry about it” trick, and you really have to dig that whole “tree ring data is a temperature proxy, but digging holes in the ground lets us look at temperature ‘pulses’ that are not at all temperature proxies.”
In point of fact, anything that isn’t a temperature reading taken in the relevant time and place is by definition a temperature proxy. It just happens that his proxy data is also collected by using thermometers. Whether or not these subterranean “temperature pulses” are more reliable and informative than tree ring data is hard to say — after all, that area of inquiry was completely unfamiliar to me until today (I’m not even entirely sure the ground actually records temperatures as he claims, though I’m not equipped to repudiate that assertion either,) whereas tree ring studies have been going on for centuries, to the point where the modern science of it is hardly guesswork.
Still, Roy Spencer mixes a great deal of genuine scientific insight in with his work. I am particularly keen on this statement/heading of his . . .
“Climate Prediction and Weather Forecasting Are Not the Same”
That is so elementary to this subject that going forward without that understanding would be like trying to drive a car without knowing if it was motivated by spinning wheels, jet exhaust, or a team of invisible reindeer. It’s hard to even think of a more fundamental piece of information than the distinction between climate and weather. Yet even in this discussion we see the old saw about, “they can’t even predict the weather 10 days in advance, so how can anyone be right about global warming?” What I wonder is, if someone doesn’t even have a grasp of the kindergarten level stuff in this area of inquiry, why speak up to advocate any particular position on a scientific question? Could it really be that at least some of the comments here are nothing more than proud political parroting, or is showcasing a lack of understanding of science really satisfying in itself?
Also, as an aside about Joe McCarthy, what sort of person seriously believes the right way to handle a counterespionage situation is to whip the public into a frenzy and conduct highly publicized hearings? McCarthy may have done nothing more than consult in the HUAC vs. Hollywood business, but he was far from helpful when it came to rooting out actual Soviet agents or promoting responsible civic discourse. He thrived on fear and hatred, because he was a pretty unlikable guy if people were left to think rationally about him. I suppose there is some role for public oversight in counterespionage activity, but the last thing you want to do when trying to catch secret agents is print up broadcast schedules and announce to the nation every detail of your efforts in that area. Public grandstanding and bombastic rhetoric where his weapons of choice. I can’t think of methods that would be less effective in hunting real spies, but those two sure can be effective in influencing voting behavior (almost always for the worse.)
MODERATORS NOTE: I do not endorse the comments below. I find the comments below distasteful, degrading, and indicative of a person who cannot stick to courteous, reasonable discourse. While I came close to deleting it, I decided I’d allow it as an example of the kind of thing I don’t want this blog to deteriorate into. Demonweed, clean up your act. This kind of imagery does not belong here.
————————————————–
As a postscript what is up with all this nutso garbage about “the global warming movement is out to get us!” I know it must be comforting to see other people repeating elements of that same narrative, but wouldn’t it be more comforting to wake up and smell the payola? Scientists are making this up for grant money?!? Anyone who dissents is risking his livelihood?!? Puh-leeze . . . anyone with a lab coat and semi-coherent grammar can make a healthy living shilling for the fossil fuel industry. On top of which, academic institutions (and government, albeit to a lesser degree) don’t go giving out grants with the expectation of bias in research. That is the province of “think tanks” and advocacy groups.
Still, lets say for the sake of argument that Al Gore has a secret Green Army all poised to take over the nation and sing Dixie Chicks songs while cooking aborted fetuses on a grill fueled by American flags. So what? Are you really going to let how you feel about politics define what you believe about science? Even if you really believe a conspiracy theory, injecting it into the discussion clouds and distracts, assuming that there are some people here who have the intention of getting at the truth in a clash of non-political facts and analysis.
Demonweed wrote,
It is simply wrong to argue that existing mountain glaciers are “relics from the ice age” that are entirely or even chiefly composed of ice deposited during the last full blown ice age. That more recent accumulations contribute to their mass may be a fact. So what?
My point was that the ranks of global warming believers are full of people who don’t understand enough science to process the arguments and data, and the likes of Gore exploit this ignorance.
I picked a comment of yours to illustrate my point. Your rebuttal above merely further illustrates my point.
Is the volume of a river a function of how long ago the rainfall it comprises fell? Of course not, and neither is the size of a glacier. If you are interested, your error is to confuse a glacier as a relic with the ice it comprises as relic ice.
Demonweed
I was going to avoid comments to you since your demeanor is so caustic, but I have to throw this in:
“Anyone at any time can sling around a mix of facts and faulty analysis to “convince” people to embrace beliefs already passionately heartfelt. Much of the lying that goes on to promote a political alternative to scientific thinking is unnecessary — skillful deceivers can get the same result just starting with a cherry-picked selection of truths, tossing in just a dash of fresh nonsense, then claiming it all “proves” what he or she already knows readers/listeners/viewers long to hear.”
You are quite correct, and the alarmists have used this strategy effectively, i.e. Al Gore, James Hansen and Steven Schneider, to name just a few who have openly admitted to exaggeration, hyperbole, and “cherry picking”.
I suspect your knowledge of McCarthy comes from Hollywood, since it is incorrect in every important particular.
Mark Whitney
Sandy,Utah,USA
Obviously emotions are intense here, and I seem to have stepped on a sore spot. I understand why people might be deeply offended, and I apologize. Ironically, in trying to illustrate the point that people should separate their thoughts on science from their feelings about politics, I seem to have insured the former will completely eclipse the latter. I see my mistake now. I promise, subsequent to this paragraph, that never again will I mention the Dixie Chicks in this blog.
[snip]
From Moderator: “Dixie Chicks?” Patronizing remarks aren’t appreciated either, try again.
Wow, no sense of humor and no intellectual integrity to be found either? I suppose I should leave you fellows to your circle jerk then. Every single one of you deserves better than what you’re giving each other though. Enjoy the shelter today’s emotional hysteria provides . . . it will likely be a long time before another dissenting voice is heard in this chorus.
Wes George wrote,
Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? What should I do? How will I do it? These are the questions that humans have asked since time immemorial. We are hardwired to crave the answers in order to achieve our full humanity.
It is indeed an existential issue for many (most?) people, which goes a long way to explaining the combination of deep passion and irrationality it engenders.
Wes, do you have a blog? I’d certainly be a regular reader.
Demonweed. There’s a real difference between a sincere apology for writing something very offensive, and writing an apology poorly cloaked in comedy as a way of deflecting the issue. Given your obvious command of the English language, I would be remiss in allowing you to dispense such vile language that you’ve used in the offending post with such a disingenuous cavalier attitude disguised as an apology.
Note that no other participant, except you, has resorted to such offensive imagery to make a point. If a reprimand and suggestion to “try again” because the apology you gave was condescending is reason enough for you to stomp off in a huff, leaving behind yet another trail of low brow language to justify your actions, well then so be it. But in doing so, you automatically stereotype yourself.
You are welcome to post anything about the science here. But I will not further tolerate the kind of disgusting juvenile language you have been using in the last few posts.
Either engage discussions like a responsible adult, or move along, it is your choice.
Re: wattsupwiththat (16:08:05) “… Either engage discussions like a responsible adult, or move along, it is your choice. …”
Perhaps demonweed would profit by heeding the advice given at http://demonweed.wordpress.com/about/ “… I hope to establish a recurring theme here related to the triumph of reason over emotion. …”