Canada’s Resources Minister Calls Out Jim Hansen

NASA Scientist James Hansen Arrested, August 2...

NASA Scientist James Hansen Arrested, August 29, 2011 Photo Credit: Ben Powless (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Retired NASA GISS chief James Hansen is Slagging Canada’s Oil Sands Again

Canada’s Environment *Resources Minister Joe Oliver is calling out Jim Hansen for exaggerating claims that the oil sands and Keystone XL pipeline is “game over for the environment.”

“A retired NASA scientist is exaggerating when he claims Canada’s oil sands development is an environmental scourge, federal environment minister Joe Oliver said on Wednesday.

“It does not advance the debate when people make exaggerated comments that are not rooted in the facts. And [scientist James Hansen] should know that,” Oliver told reporters in Washington, D.C., CBC reported.”

Read more:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/25/natural-resources-minister/

Story submitted by WUWT reader John Marincic

* John Marincic adds at  2013/04/25 at 12:51 pm in comments

Anthony, when I posted this NP had him as the Environment Minister. He is the Natural Resources Minister and NP changed the title on me. If you want to correct the post please be my guest.

Thx, John

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82 thoughts on “Canada’s Resources Minister Calls Out Jim Hansen

  1. Anthony, when I posted this NP had him as the Environment Minister. He is the Natural Resources Minister and NP changed the title on me. If you want to correct the post please be my guest.

    Thx, John

  2. I work the oil sand, and have for more then twenty years as do my daughter, and my wife. We live here, breathe the air here, drink the water here, and if anyone thinks for one second we are deliberately harming ourselves, our own children, then you’re bloody insane. We pay $15 a ton in carbon taxes as is. You can access our air quality monitoring stations 24/7/365 on the internet anytime you wish as see for yourself. Canada as a whole emits 0.02% carbon. The oil sands emits 1/10 of 0.02% carbon. Our transportation in Canada emits far more then the oil sands. Hansen is an idiot, as are all eco protestors who know nothing about the oil sands let alone the oil and gas business. The American alternative is Middle East or South American oil and gas – good luck with any environmental regulations from any of those guys.

    To let America be held hostage to a few thousand eco freaks is laughable. Any sane government would have the balls to put their nation first under such circumstances. Even a roughneck like me understands the benefits of a North American energy strategy.

  3. jb frodsham says:
    April 25, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    I wonder who is paying Hansen now? Anyone Know?

    I think he is still an Adjunct Professor at Columbia University. His CAGW alarmism does fit perfectly within the modern academic bubble/echo chamber environment…

    By the way, look for Hansen to return to NASA (funding-wise) as a highly paid “consultant”.

  4. @jb…. Either the Saudis are paying him to stifle North American oil production, or Warren Buffett to make sure that in the US it is carried by BNSF!

  5. “Hansen is so extreme I do wonder if he is ill”
    His extremeness has brought in billions for NASA. Seems to me he liked to think he was the wonderboy in the organiztion.

  6. Canada has a Minister of the Environment. It is not Joseph Oliver. Oliver’s job is to to use resources and Hansen is in his way.

  7. Good for Joe Oliver. Call Hansen on his exaggerations. Maybe the media will be forced to report two sides on the matter.

  8. “It does not advance the debate when people make exaggerated comments that are not rooted in the facts. And [scientist James Hansen] should know that,” Oliver told reporters …

    Ouch!

  9. Hansen’s objection to tar sands oil is the excessive amount of energy it takes to extract it. Has anyone done a comparison to ethanol’s energy requiremants vs. tar sand oil on a Btu basis? That would be interesting. And remember, ethanol can’t be moved in energy efficient pipelines, it generally is generally transported in smelly, polluting diesel trucks.

  10. Did anyone else immediately notice the typically dishonest and emotionally manipulative ploy of using a cold weather picture for the Oilsands processing plant? Billows of steam look very scary that way.

    And I’m embarrassed when I read what “some” Canadians write on that National Post item. There are stupid and gullible people everywhere.

  11. I have yet to see a north american politician have enough balls to declare AGW hog wash. They won’t because they always play both sides of the equation for the next election. Term limits is the only answer. It’s about maintaining their control and been elected. Oliver has flip flopped on AGW countless times. He is a spineless politician.

  12. Hansen deserves a big “consulting” fee from OPEC for his work to maintain high oil prices and stifle competition. Anyone care to do an energy comparo between oil sand extraction and
    the many pumped storage facilities Moonbeam Brown is building in California – each with a price tag not far from the cost of a nuclear plant. And those facilities extract almost 30% of the energy just for storage.

  13. Taxedtodeath says:
    April 25, 2013 at 1:42 pm
    “I have yet to see a north american politician have enough balls to declare AGW hog wash.”

    Inhofe. Wish we had one like him in Germany.

  14. Taxedtodeath says:
    April 25, 2013 at 1:42 pm
    “I have yet to see a north american politician have enough balls to declare AGW hog wash. They won’t because they always play both sides of the equation for the next election. Term limits is the only answer. It’s about maintaining their control and been elected. …”

    James Inhofe, R (Oklahoma)

  15. My first summer job (off the farm) during summer break in High School was on the Tar Sands in 1966 working on the construction of what then was the GCOS (Great Canadian Oil Sands) plant. Bucket wheel technology. I believe it was meant to be the first producing extraction plant. As a 17 year old kid I worked 12 hours a day 6 and sometimes 7 days a week and made nothing but money. That 2 months of summer paid for a year of university and also bought me a car and some other toys. It was also an education in industrial relations, corporate shenanigans, communal living, getting along with French Canadians, fighting forest fires, pleasing the boss, thinking for myself, learning from ex cons, playing tennis and watching movies, swatting mosquitoes, union games and wages, and protecting my integrity. There was no actual Fort McMurray at the time, only a small airport, a hotel (and busy bar) and a hospital. One of the great adventures of my life. And I count the whole thing as an environmental triumph.Reclaiming the sand from the polluting tar. And that’s what goes on today, only on a grander scale. We are just removing toxic waste from the environment. Nothing wrong with that. When it’s all done the land will be better off, and in the process workers and investors and their families will be enriched and the North America marketplace will be serviced with abundant energy without stirring up Arabia unnecessarily. It’s all win win. I know it has been said before, but I’ll chime in- James Hansen is an egotistical idiot.

  16. I should have said “publically declare AGW hog wash”. Many politicians in private discussion will say it’s B.S. but never to the media.

  17. albertalad said:
    April 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    To let America be held hostage to a few thousand eco freaks is laughable. Any sane government would have the balls to put their nation first under such circumstances.
    ——————————-
    “Any sane government….”

    We haven’t had one of those in quite a while.

  18. albertalad says:
    April 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    “To let America be held hostage to a few thousand eco freaks is laughable. Any sane government would have the balls to put their nation first under such circumstances. ”

    The eco freaks are only the sponsored shock troops. American presidential candidates are selected by the CFR and the Bilderbergers which are round table groups formed since Milner, the guy who had the job to turn Cecil Rhodes will into practice; forming a “secret society” to run the empire. Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar; the Rhodes scholarships are paid for by the fortune of Cecil Rhodes, promoting his vision of one world government.
    See Quigley’s Targedy And Hope. Quigley was Clinton’s professor and in favor of the “secret societies”.

    Here is Cecil Rhodes’ last will with a search for the term “secret society”.

    http://archive.org/stream/lastwilltestamen00rhodiala#page/196/mode/2up/search/secret+society

    So you have to understand, the president of the US and the eco freaks work for the same group.

  19. That Mr. Oliver is the Natural Resources Minister (v. the Environment Minister for Canada), is good to know (thanks Fred from Canuckistan) but, Ryan, that fact is irrelevant to the discussion. What Mr. Oliver says the key: “Oliver called Hansen’s argument ‘nonsense.’” [Nat. Post 4/25/13]

    Evidence of Hansen’s Nonsense (not exhaustive — that would take pages!) from 5/9/12 N. Y. Times Editorial which Hansen wrote [emphasis mine]:

    — “We can say with HIGH CONFIDENCE that the recent heat waves … were not natural events — they were caused by human-induced climate change.”

    — “The earth is currently in the part of its long-term orbit cycle where TEMPERATURES would normally be cooling. But they ARE RISING … .”

    — “We should IMPOSE a gradually rising carbon FEE, collected from fossil fuel companies, … This MARKET-BASED approach … .”

    Plaintiff’s Counsel: Therefore, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you hold that Hansen is guilty of intentional misrepresentation upon which the plaintiffs reasonably relied to their detriment.

    Defense Counsel: Gentlemen and ladies of the jury, I ask that you hold my client not guilty by reason of insanity.

  20. The scam will die when any Canadian Minister of the Environment, Energy or the Prime Minister takes responsibility for their portfolio and demands from their staff, our career “public servants”, the engineering grade policy case for,
    1 The existence of global warming.(Time span needs specified)
    2 The evidence of mans contribution.
    3 Anthropogenic CO2 being a causative agent.
    As this does not exist, to the best of my knowledge, a responsible government would start making punitive inquiries, as to how so much public treasure was spent on such poorly researched policy.
    That heads are not already rolling, troubles me greatly.
    I suspect the answers are 1 Some warming since 1600’s. 2 Cannot be distinguished from noise, in current measurements. 3Same as 2.
    Or depending on your start point 1 is yes,no and maybe. 2 & 3 Insufficient data we do not know.
    That government policy was created and imposed using the IPCC as “science supporting policy” is shameful, my own inquiries suggest few if any canadian policy advisors actually read the IPCC 4th report.

  21. Yay Canada!

    Problem is, the government scientists crimatologists scream censorship and destruction of science when the government tries to reduce the their funding. A left press echoes and trumpets their evidently self-interested tantrums.

  22. Ed_B says April 25, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    His extremeness has brought in billions for NASA.

    Yes, but not for rocketry or exploration.

  23. Here’s another place where humanity could use a pipeline, the Karakum Desert:

    http://travel.nationlgeographic.com/travel/365-photos/darvaza-gas-crater/turkmenistan

    See, Mother Nature continually produces Natural Gas and longer chain Hydrocarbons, including ‘tar sands’. Mother Nature cannot ‘sequester’ her abundance, so she outgases. The question, is Mother Nature committing the worse crime of producing the GHG Methane, or using combustion to convert to the GHG Carbon Dioxide and water vapor ?

    Perhaps Hansen should attacks the REAL source of these pollutants.

  24. Climate alarmism is truly falling apart. Can you imagine the hell that would have broken loose if a politician had said something like that only a couple of years ago? The news media would have raked him over the coals, the greenies would have acted indignant, he would have lost his job, his house, his family.

    Today a high level figure in a G8 country can actually openly call out a climate god like Hansen with only minor repercussions. If Climategate had never happened, to this day no politician could ever call out Hansen and live to tell the tail.

    Climategate was the turning point, the single greatest blow to the climate alarmist quasi-religion.

  25. The Globe and Mail of course presented this whole exchange as if offended describing Hansen as “a leading climate scientist”… Yet no mention that even Andrew Weaver co authored a study showing little impact from the oil sands, drawing attacks from SFU’s own Hansen wannabe Mark Jaccard, the father of British Columbia’s carbon tax.
    Ah the Globe, the mouthpiece of Tides and the Rockefellers, of Maurice Strong and all political parties that are playing the green card Federal NDP, BC NDP, Federal Liberals, Jean Charest, Diana Fox/Carney… the very Globe that never could find the door to Steve McIntyre!

    Donna Laframboise is darn right to denounce the Thomson Reuters green press, the Globe and Mail.

  26. Donna mentions also the Guardian replaying the “outrage”…
    What a cozy relationship between the Globe and Mail Thomson owned and the Guardian… the common denominator here is: Sir Crispin Tickell.

    That “snake” as Tom Wigley characterized Tickell in a climategate email is father to Oliver Tickell, a well known econut who is so well treated by George Monbiot when he Op-eds or publish a book. The Same Monbiot was made a fellow of Green College thanks to no other than Sir Crispin patronage…Tickell is UNEP royalty and no doubt well acqauinted with Maurice Strong who himself is family with the Desmarais and Chretien, Liberals stalwarts.

    Globemedia, Thomson Reuters have no credibility when it comes to anything linked to green policies and climate. They offer free reins to Thomas Homer-Dixon the Director of CIGI, a Balsillie funded institute that works hand in hand with O surprise, the Rockefellers and Soros. lately, Homer-Dixon was backstabbing Canada’s economic efforts in a NYT Op-ed while Strong was threatening on the Globe.

  27. It’s a twisted sort of logic; oil, being a fossil fuel is bad because burning it produces lots of C02, which is “destroying” our climate. The oil sands are a potentially huge source of oil, which should be left in the ground for the above reason. With less oil available, we’ll supposedly be forced to use other sources of energy for transportation and heating, like fairy dust and magic mushrooms.
    But here’s where it gets really twisted: the oil is going to be produced, with or without the Keystone XL pipeline, so blocking the pipeline won’t actually do anything, even within the construct of their own false ideology. It’s merely symbolic, in other words.

  28. And never forget to rub it into the eco-nutz, we Canadians are cleaning up the biggest oil spill known to mankind.We seek to make pure that lovely glacial sand, what kind of planet hating crazies would try to stop us?

  29. It should be noted Oliver was responding to a questioner who thought Hansen had said the oil sands would be game over for the environment in 4 years, as opposed to his actual argument that all of the projected reserves burned alongside other sources would mean that in 100 – 200 years. I don’t agree with that but I don’t think Oliver would necessarily disagree or call it irresponsible. Post comments seem to indicate 1/6 of the reserves are actually likely to be used so it does seem inaccurate on that account.

  30. Transcript: Thom Hartmann & Dr. James Hansen – Protest the Oil Sands Pipeline. August 30, 2011
    James Hansen: Yeah, yeah. And I think the answer is yes it’s not a hyperbolic statement. It’s, it is game over…..

    A few points:
    1) Dr. James Hansen once argued in a 1967 paper that dust made Venus hot. (wrong)

    2) Dr. James Hansen switched from astronomy to climastrology.

    3) Dr. James Hansen said the oceans would boil if we burned all our fossil fuels.

    4) Rasool and Schneider’s paper of 1971 predicted a new ice age based on Hansen’s model.

    Dr. James Hansen should stay ON his medication. His grandchildren will be so ashamed in the decades ahead.

  31. On Hansen and runaway warming Venus style:

    “Some thresholds that all would consider dangerous have no support in the literature as having a non-negligible chance of occurring. For instance, a “runaway greenhouse effect” —analogous to Venus–appears to have virtually no chance of being induced by anthropogenic activities…..”
    IPCC

    http://www.ipcc.ch/meetings/session31/inf3.pdf

    “There is no possibility of such runaway greenhouse conditions occurring on the Earth.”
    Sir John Houghton – atmospheric physicist
    Lead editor of first three IPCC reports.

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0034-4885/68/6/R02

    Dr. James Hansen has Venus on the brain. I’m sure he suffers from nightmares about it.

  32. And, to support other previous commenters, Sen. Inhofe wrote a book “The Greatest Hoax”.

    It is documented, back in 2003, that he was then calling AGW a “hoax”.

  33. albertalad says:
    April 25, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    ——————————————
    Stay clear of the “tailing” reservoirs, and do not eat any fish from down river or moose.

    I pray your confidence continue…

    Oil Sands Development: A Health Risk Worth Taking?
    “A good deal of the controversy about oil sands development centers around those tailings ponds, which cover more than 130 square kilometers in northern Alberta, according to the 2008 report 11 Million Litres a Day: The Tar Sands’ Leaking Legacy from Canada’s Environmental Defence. Some large tailings ponds are separated by earthen dikes from the Athabasca River, which joins the Mackenzie River to form the major watershed of Northwest Canada. The water in these ponds often contains arsenic, mercury, PAHs, and other toxics found in the bitumen.”

    “The authors also noted that a 2006 analysis of the health status of Fort Chipewyan residents showed that residents have elevated prevalence rates of diabetes, hypertension, renal failure, and lupus. All these diseases have been linked with one or more of the toxics commonly found in tailings pond water”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679626/

    Cancer Incidence in Fort Chipewyan, Alberta 1995-2006 (one of the principle papers quoted in the above study)
    “The study did not make any connection between oil sands developments and the high chemical levels found in sediment, nor did it connect the community’s perceptions of elevated cancer and disease rates to chemicals within the sediment.”

    “This study examined the prevalence of certain disease and disorders within the Peace and Athabasca river basins, focusing on reproductive health congenital anomalies, respiratory ailments, circulatory diseases, gastrointestinal disorders, endocrine and metabolic disorders, and neurocognitive disorders. This study did not provided specific information about the lower Athabasca region. Furthermore, cancer was not part of the outcome assessment.”

    “The long-term impacts of oil sands in its early stages of the development since 1968 are not clear. A previous publication in 1980s indicated that Suncor permitted effluent discharge of oil and grease to the Athabasca River at 420 kg per day.120 Sometimes, operation problems resulted in excessive effluent discharge into the river.120;121 In addition to water-born effluents, the two oil sands extraction plants (Suncor and Syncrude) emitted massive amounts of particulates in the atmosphere. Particulates mass emissions from the Suncor powerhouse stack ranged from 547 to 780 kg per hour; the Syncrude Canada main stacks mass emissions ranged from 713 to 1067 kg per hour.120″

    http://www.ualberta.ca/~avnish/rls-2009-02-06-fort-chipewyan-study.pdf

    But no worries, a new study found some previous concerns were contested by government and industry sources and that more study is needed to evaluate the need to study some more…
    ““As an industry, we welcome science. We believe what’s needed is more solid data to build confidence among Canadians that this resource is being developed responsibly and safely.”

    http://www.ienearth.org/new-study-to-examine-health-impact-of-alberta-oilsands/

    Sounds good to me!

  34. Robert of Ottawa says:
    April 25, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    Yay Canada!

    Problem is, the government [scientists] crimatologists scream censorship and destruction of science when the government tries to reduce the their funding. A left press echoes and trumpets their evidently self-interested tantrums.
    ========================
    Ya really, all that whining about being muzzled and not allowed to speak to the press…sheesh
    Or the crying “We get fired if we whistle-blow”, slackers…
    And then all the efforts of the leftist press to inform with “truth” that we all know can’t be true…like for instance:

  35. If you see the word “tar sands”, I automatically associate it with a certain D word. Tar is a long chain hydrocarbon. The augers I was sampling looked like an oil change after 15000 or so miles – dirty oil mixed with sandy bits, but the mix was freely flowing. If the oil weren’t mostly about the length of hexane or octane you wouldn’t be able to get gasoline out of it. This material has been flowing into the Athabasca River for over a thousand years. The exploration program I was working with was easy – once the tap root on the pine trees hit the surface of the oil, the tree died. The smallest trees indicated the “richest” areas. Tall, well treed areas (some 4 inches across at the base!) meant the oil was deep. And the places we found gravel that had been mixed with bitumen by previous rivers…. well, it’s like tar balls along the Gulf of Mexico. They’re there regardless of human activity.

    Kajajuk – aren’t you glad that the doctor who found all of the rare cancers in the one Indian reserve was cleared of the ethics charges? The main National Post link is no longer active, but fortunately archived here: http://oped.ca/National-Post/kevin-libin-exposing-john-oconnor-is-all-part-of-the-oilsands-conspiracy/
    My favorite portion of the story is “Dr. O’Connor’s claims proved to be only the latest tall tale from a community supposedly swimming in industrial toxins: in March, scientists revealed that a fish found on the banks of the Athabasca River in Fort Chipewyan, which had been exhibited as a “mutant” by community activists, garnering international media coverage, was, in fact, a perfectly normal specimen. An alleged second jaw was, in reality, a harmlessly decomposing tongue. The fact-check follow-up received scant coverage compared to the original, false story. Had the regulatory body’s investigation not been leaked to the media, against Dr. O’Connor’s wishes, his dramatic tale of an aboriginal community supposedly poisoned by big business, with the complicity of politically corrupted health authorities, would remain the official version of things.”
    Yup, not guilty of fraud. But Alberta’s College of Physicians and Surgeons found that he treated the truth and scientific method as, er, shall we say, somewhat elastic.

    Oh, and Kajajuk, since David Thomson, the first European through the area, noted that there was oil flowing into the river 300 years ago and that the local Indians used bitumen to caulk their canoes, why are you against us cleaning up this natural oil spill? Is it only bad if it’s been touched by humans?

  36. I had forgotten to mention: there’s a good book by the name of “Ethical Oil: The Case For Canada’s Oil Sands” which makes the moral case for the development of Canada’s Oil sands using the human rights records of producing countries as a criteria for comparison. A highly recommended read. Author Ezra Levant is usually controversial (and quite conservative, his taping of a “human rights commission” interrogation about publishing the Mohammed cartoons is the strongest defense of free speech I’ve ever seen in a Canadian context) and tends to enrage those who disagree with him.

  37. Thanks for the book recommendation, Mike D in Alberta.

    I say, if Ezra Levant wrote it, it will be accurate and powerful.

    What a hero Mr. Levant is for FREEDOM and (genuine) human rights!

    “Ezra Levant [is highly persuasive and resoundingly refutes lies which] tends to enrage those who disagree with him.” {#:)]

  38. Speaking of books… Mr. Jimbo! You need to write a book. You write with consistently exceptionally keen wit and share so MANY devastatingly incisive and often brilliantly humorous insights — you could compile it all into a great HUMOR WITH AN EDGE book. Others at WUGT are like you and should also consider this! Say… someone could COMPILE a list of the humorous and or witty posts and write a book THAT way (even a non-science major could to that…). A book that communicates the truth about science and, especially the ABSURDITY of the AGW gang, would be: 1) a morale booster and just plain entertaining to truth in science people; and 2) a way to teach truth when defenses are down.

    “Pleasant words promote instruction.” Go for it! You could do a great book lecture tour — comedy is ALWAYS welcome. Like Dennis Miller on liberty and freedom; like Mark Steyn on many current issues. Yes, Jimbo, I think you are THAT good. GO FOR IT!

  39. Corky Boyd says:
    April 25, 2013 at 1:21 pm
    Hansen’s objection to tar sands oil is the excessive amount of energy it takes to extract it. Has anyone done a comparison to ethanol’s energy requiremants vs. tar sand oil on a Btu basis? That would be interesting. And remember, ethanol can’t be moved in energy efficient pipelines, it generally is generally transported in smelly, polluting diesel trucks.

    Rather than trying to do a comparative mass-and-energy balance, consider this question: Which product requires the government to provide massive subsidies for it to remain competive in the market place? I think we all know the answer is a little “corny”.

  40. jb frodsham [April 25, 2013 at 12:46 pm] says:

    I wonder who is paying Hansen now? Anyone Know?

    His Pension … current Taxpayers

    His Social Security … future Taxpayers

    Speeches, Books and Incidentals … various left-wing groups and audiences

    The inevitable result of FDR and the Welfare State

  41. Like Mann , Hansen does much good work for the very ideas and people they hate .
    Keep them in the public spot light , keep them under pressure . Personal arrogance and massive ego’s will do the rest .

  42. Janice Moore says:
    April 25, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Speaking of books… Mr. Jimbo!

    You are too kind. Do you really want a laugh? Click here and here. ;O)

  43. “It does not advance the debate when people make exaggerated comments that are not rooted in the facts. And [scientist James Hansen] should know that,” Oliver told reporters in Washington, D.C.”
    Since when have the facts mattered to the likes of Hansen?

  44. Jimbo says:
    April 25, 2013 at 4:08 pm
    On Hansen and runaway warming Venus style:

    “Some thresholds that all would consider dangerous……………..

    Dr. James Hansen has Venus on the brain. I’m sure he suffers from nightmares about it.

    ________________________________

    Perhaps, merely, Venus envy?

  45. “…want a laugh? Click here and here. ;O)” [Jimbo]

    Wow, GREAT RESEARCH! What a treasure trove of “this is your mind on climatology.” Thanks for sharing.

    Say, (ahem, clear throat and yell so my tiny science-midget voice can be heard) ANTHONY! WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT A “HUMOR” TAG? I looked and couldn’t find one — it would come in your alphabetical list right after HANSEN. Haw, haw, haaaaa!

  46. The novelty of Hansen’s bizarre pronouncements will wear off soon, especially now that he is no longer with NASA. I predict that Hansen will be ignored within another year or two.

    Hansen who?

  47. “Well, well another crack in the foundation of the Berlin Wall of climate change. The tidal wave is building!”

    Because a politician< a resources minister, opened his yap? Hardly.

    If politicians exist to do one thing, it's collect taxes. Anything that threatens to reduce existing tax revenue miffs them.

    Hansen and AGW may both be a joke, but this is very yawn-inspiring.

  48. Christoph Dollis:

    I am surprised that you fail to see the yawning chasm in the logic of your post at April 27, 2013 at 12:54 am.

    It says

    “Well, well another crack in the foundation of the Berlin Wall of climate change. The tidal wave is building!”

    Because a politician< a resources minister, opened his yap? Hardly.

    If politicians exist to do one thing, it's collect taxes. Anything that threatens to reduce existing tax revenue miffs them.

    Hansen and AGW may both be a joke, but this is very yawn-inspiring.

    If the objective of the politician is to “collect taxes”
    so a rebuttal of a justification for taxation “miffs” him,
    and AGW is one such justification
    then the politician would not make such a rebuttal.

    But he did.

    Clearly, according to your argument, the politician having “opened his yap” indicates that either AGW is no longer a justification for taxation or AGW has been supplanted by a greater political priority.

    I would find that gob-smacking and not “yawn-inspiring”.

    Richard

  49. As long as the ‘clean up’ of the natural environment will include massive tailings pools i am sure there is nothing to worry about. Why be cautious with irreversible actions? Consider all the primal cultures that reverie the natural world and develop spirituality to co-exist; what suckers they were, now with science we can rationalize consumptions without conscience and the “sky is the limit”. I am glad we have progressed to be ruled by that which is most important…

    It never occurred to me that the deposit has affected the flora and fauna for eons, wow, how can there be a downside to ripping it out of the land and tying up one of the biggest water-sheds on the planet with new ‘lakes’. Seems like humans are just helping out mother nature again (still) to develop and evolve.
    I am just glad that corporations are in charge. What could go wrong?

  50. @Kajajuk, by your own logic “It never occurred to me that the deposit…..”
    There can be no ill effects down stream of the oil sands, obviously all eco systems north of the deposit must be evolved to need these natural toxins, so any accidental spills would be beneficial.
    Every spring, before the Bennett Dam was built, the spring floods ripped great chunks of these deposits out of the Peace River banks, contaminating the entire watershed out to the Beaufort Sea.
    So obviously all indigenous peoples health problems are the opposite of your conjecture, therefore bathing in the bituminous wastes is the wonder cure.
    PS I hope you comprehend sarcasm.

  51. The natural (i.e. slow and driven by erosion and other SLOW geologic processes) pollution is a boundary stress on habitats. Evolution has been to exclude and minimize exposer…a noteworthy strategy.

  52. Thanks for the humor link, Jimbo. And thanks for not making a joke about my slovenly research into its whereabouts.

    I still think you should write that book!

  53. Kajajuk says: “erosion and other SLOW geologic processes”

    Yeah, the following is pretty slow (NOT!).

    “Every spring, … floods ripped great chunks of these deposits out of the Peace River banks… .” [John Robertson, 4/27/13, 0937]

  54. Relative II:
    At an average of 1.25 million barrels a day of extracted crude requires 2.50 million tones of oil sands (that is metric tons) per day.
    How many million years of floods is that?
    “These industry-made impoundments now contain 187 billion gallons of sludge that includes phenols, arsenic, mercury, cancer-makers such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and fish-killing naphthenic acids.”
    So big you can see it from space…one of the biggest man-made structures on Earth…a modern marvel…

  55. Kajajuk says:
    April 27, 2013 at 8:35 am

    “As long as the ‘clean up’ of the natural environment will include massive tailings pools i am sure there is nothing to worry about. Why be cautious with irreversible actions?”

    Certainly due care in mining and disposition of waste should be a central consideration of modern society. However, I get tired of the anti mining folks who go to protests on their titanium bicycles and organize using their metal and plastic computers burning energy in the process. This is a bit like protesting against deer pooping in the forest. Our use of earth’s mineral materials IS the central identifying characteristic of being human. It separates us from the apes and other creatures. The very names of the fundamental steps in human development are not arbitrary: paleolithic neolithic (lithic refering to “stone users”), the bronze age, the iron age… use of mineral materials in a virtually hereditary and defining aspect of humaness. Our archeological history is known almost solely from the caches of mineral materials that we have left behind. It is no less natural than beavers building a dam. Kajajuk, please fast forward a couple of hundred years and join us.

  56. Not an anti-mining folk am i; just a powerless observer whom watches and waits…
    More monuments in stone should be constructed to ‘humaness'; they last longer than concrete and steel.
    Comparing extraction of resources in ‘archeological history’ to the lemmings march of today is most amusing. Perhaps i will join you as the years click by, but perhaps you will be joining me. It will depend on how the ‘cookies’ crumble.

  57. kajajuk – Sorry kajajuk, you’ll find it hard to mislead here. “So big you can see it from space…one of the biggest man-made structures on Earth…a modern marvel…” Please check such absurdities before posting. Google earth is my friend. If you look on Google Earth you can find the oil sands mines, after some looking, if you can follow waterways and look up the nearby towns or cities. Try finding them without using looking up Fort MacMurray or Fort MacKay and you’ll see how small the area that is affected is. The active mines are not as easy to find, or notice, as you’re implying. On the provincial, or regional

    Next, compare pretty much any major city at the same scale. London, Paris, New York, Toronto, Dallas, Mexico City, Beijing, Rome…. if you If you look at any of them at the same scale, the cities have a bigger footprint than the oilsands mining does. And mining doesn’t introduce foreign plants and trees to the local ecosystems (like so many gardeners do, usually inadvertently). The city cores are larger than the oilsands mines, but what about the surroundings? If you zoom in on any of the city areas you’ll find a lot of individual houses, streets, agriculture, and parks. Some cities have large parks beside them that are enforced as “no development” zones. Zoom in on the area around the oilsands mines and what do you find? There’s lots of trees and swamps, and the occasional road or drill pad. If you’re really serious about being concerned with oil products going to or being taken from a zone that’s been toxic for thousands of years (the La Brea tar pits is a similar deposit, how do you think it captured all those skeletal samples?) then why not try to stop pavement? It uses a petrochemical base, and is ubiquitous in today’s first world nations. Until you’ve cleaned up the mess in your area, stop telling me what do to in mine.

  58. drat, must remember to review. The first paragraph was intended to end “On the provincial or regional level, the Oilsands mines look the same as intensive agricultural areas that are lying fallow or covered in snow. They are far from the only thing in Alberta that would be visible from space, if indeed they are.”

  59. Since, i am not in space it is not my observation. Funny how the fur is so well matted by your inability to be deceived but the meat remains unchallenged.
    “A Man-Made Wonder of the World
    You’ve seen pictures of the Great Wall of China, the Colosseum, the Taj Mahal, and Machu Pichu? Now see the newest wonder of the world for yourself. As large as 12,000 football fields and clearly visible from space, the oil sands toxic tailing ponds of Alberta are one of the largest man-made structures in the world. With the only industry planning to quadruple production, this wonder is only getting larger. Come celebrate this wondrous achievement!”

    http://travelingalberta.com/vacation_ideas.php

    If what you say is true Mike D, then my faith in the Alberta tourist industry has been shattered.

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