Global Warming Skepticism and the New Segregation

Given the shameful pedophilia labels that were recently applied to climate skeptics by the Merchants of Hate Robyn Williams and Stephan Lewandowsky on Australia’s ABC radio, I thought this essay from the Chillicothe Gazette (Ohio) said something that needed to be said, so I’m repeating an excerpt here. 

Durham, North Carolina. May 1940. Jack Delano, photographer. “At the bus station.” Image from the Library of Congress

Jim Thompson writes:

As a global warming skeptic who never will be in a car pool van or AFV unless forced to do so by the government, it hit me that I now know what it was like to be a black citizen in the South during the height of Jim Crow laws.

You know, when because of your skin color, you were thought to be stupid, ignorant, lazy and dirty. You sat in the back of the bus, were not allowed to use any “whites only” facilities and were sent to segregated schools.

Today, if you do not bow to the global warming/climate change/carbon footprint gods, you are deemed stupid, ignorant, lazy and unenlightened. You don’t deserve to park next to the door, you should feel lucky we even let you in the parking garage. Additionally, there are certain lanes on the expressways in which you are not allowed to travel.

All is not lost, however. For by experiencing the discrimination of not swallowing the nonsense, I have been able, in some small way, to experience what it must have been like to have been an African-American in the United States in the first half of the 20th century. The ridicule, catcalls, unfair labeling and so forth that one experiences when they are on the wrong side of a mob’s beliefs are interesting. The only difference is the African-Americans were stuck with their skin color. All I would have to do is abandon all the science I was ever taught to be, once again, accepted.

Full essay here

h/t to Tom Nelson

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147 Responses to Global Warming Skepticism and the New Segregation

  1. Joe Guerk says:

    [snip - this is only expressing one side of the issue, without dealing with the present context. The way it is presented is unfortunate, and probably not intentional. I suggest you reword and resubmit - Anthony]

  2. Yes that’s how witchhunt works, It won’t ever stop..

  3. princessartemis says:

    At least his protective bubble has finally been pierced, I suppose. What an atrocious article. Maybe he’ll get a hangnail next and come to a sudden understanding of what it’s like to be disabled in America.

    Anthony, I have been quietly following WUWT for years. It has demonstrated itself to be better than this in the past.

    REPLY: Climate skeptics are smeared with pedophile labels and you are worried about this article? Odd – Anthony

  4. Sean says:

    I think the last thing skeptics should be doing is comparing their treatment to that of African Americans in the deep south more than 50 yrs ago. First of all, this is about ideas not skin color and you can always keep your thoughts to yourself. By overstating some imagined harm, it weakens ay legitimate arguments you may want to make. Secondly, most of us seem to segregate by politics anyway these days so most of our associates are likely to think the same way we do. Third, there are several ways to discuss AGW with people that have a climate consensus mindset without even arguing the science and find common ground since so many of the “solutions” are worse for the environment and will hurt those with limited incomes. These areas where common ground can be found at least provide a platform for discussion between people with differing views and when it comes right down to, that’s what is sorely lacking.

  5. osopolitico says:

    Not only that, I have seen comments in Huffington Post greenie articles essentially calling for the execution of all ‘climate deniers’.

  6. The Expulsive says:

    At a recent legal conference, after a lawyer I know laboriously explained to the crowd the importance of AGW and the IPCC, as he passed by me after his presentation he asked if I was still a denier, a term he repeatedly used in this presentation. My only response was that I was still skeptical after reading the science. His voice was thick with derision, but I refrained from engaging with him, irrespective of the fact that 3 years ago I had highlighted the futility of the Ontario Green Energy Act, which has to date failed to deliver the number of jobs touted. At that meeting 4 years ago I was treated as an ignorant neanderthal and unqualified to comment on climate science, as I am only a lawyer with an engineering degree (worked for 13 years in manufacturing).
    My favorite comment 4 years ago was that all of the new jobs in green would swamp other manufacturing because car manufacturing was never coming back. While not as big as it was when the Canadian dollar was 65 cents, the car manufacturers are doing quite well, while wind and solar forms have shut down once the government largess disappeared. Too bad other manufacturers now have to labour under doubled electricity costs.

  7. Jon Kassaw MA LPC (Clinical Counselor) says:

    Yes! Being a Professional Counselor and working with people almost twenty years between counseling and being a church pastor, the science of hate has been exposed! The science of hate is what Hitler used and it not only borders insanity, but as the 12-step AA/NA works say is a definition of doing the same things over and over again expecting a different result = Insanity. The fact is that our whole country is divided and that is how our “science” is being divided, but not by those who want real facts that are based on real science, but those with an agenda, a hatred for humanity, i.e. the hate of C0 2 producers. Hate is a poor substitute for wanting to improve our planet = lets kill the people and save the planet! Sounds diabolical to me.

  8. Aldous Tenpenney says:

    Incredibly tone-deaf. You’re sullying your website’s brand tremendously.

    REPLY: I know talking about such things are a risk, and that some people may be turned off by the essay from the newspaper in Ohio, but at the same time skeptics are being labeled with horrible labels as we’ve seen in the recent ABC episode. Saying nothing and acquiescing to such labels is equally sullying, IMHO. I think the concern, while understandable, is misplaced. – Anthony

  9. davidmhoffer says:

    For those denigrating Anthony for running this, I am a member of a minority, and have experienced intense discrimination first hand. The tactics used to belittle, marginalize, and dehumanize me for being a member of that minority are identical to those being used to belittle, marginalize and dehumanize skeptics.

    Learn from the lessons of history, or be condemned to repeat them. But don’t you dare condemn me to repeat them with you.

  10. BargHumer says:

    I am not sure this is a good way to go in our thinking. There are many sub-cultures who feel persecuted and few of them which deserves it. Name calling is a normal response to those whose arguments are weak and whose world view is threatened.
    Let me explain it in another context. I believe that God created the world. I am quite sure that if I have “nothing” and then it explodes, I don’t get something (big bang). I am quite sure that the apparent design in nature is because it is designed. I am also quite sure that there is no source of information (with coding, semantics etc. ) in the universe other than from intelligence (and it is seen in every biological cell), but the point is that even climate sceptics will use names against creationists or supporters of intelligent design (I haven’t seen it on this blog though).

    The view of the science held by creationists/ID is deemed useless, fraudulent, ignorant etc., with all the same attitudes shown by AGWers to climate sceptics, with the same media control and court battles. The fact that many working scientists, doctors, astronomers , biologists hold creationist views is just unbelievable to those who never heard of it – it cannot be true, it is a madness, these people should be ….

    I suggest that it is best to avoid a persecution complex because it doesn’t help and it is somewhat hypocritical. As climate sceptics you know the science is on your side, just as the black people knew that they were fully human and not lesser animals, and no better or worse than white people. There is no need to respond to the provocative name calling.

    Note: I am using this only as an illustration, not to introduce creationism/ID into this blog.

  11. Gene Doebley says:

    Yes, they call us names and denigrate our intelligence but I just don’t see the parallel to racism. I’m kind of sorry tis article is on here.

  12. greg copeland says:

    Good article. I have been treated this way for years because I smoke. Shunned and looked down on as dumb, lazy etc. Now I guess I am a third or fourth rate citizen because I smoke and deny human caused climate change. Fabulous world we live in. Anything that is against the main stream relegates one to second rate citizenship.

  13. Pamela Gray says:

    I agree with David. The beginnings of atrocities fueled by simmered hate towards those who have beliefs that are different, those who have lives that are different, and those who have opinions, even reasonable ones, that are different, start small. It is this small start that we must be vigilant to firmly stand against.

  14. Robert Austin says:

    Intolerance of CAGW skepticism has has a long way to travel before it joins the panoply of politically incorrect views such as race discrimination. So making the comparison of race segregation and hatred directed at CAGW skeptics dubious and likely to draw disapprobation. As for the troll John Guerk, I would like nothing better than to be segregated from his ilk.

  15. Kev-in-Uk says:

    The whole namecalling and denigration, etc of people by folk on ANY side of ANY argument/debate is of course unecessary and completely fails to resolve anything.
    The only way to proceed (for the skeptical side) is to remain as honest, aloof and as full of integrity as is humanly possible. It is still vital to ‘believe’ that the truth will out in the end – or else, we might as well just give up know – but there is no need for any skeptics to stoop to the religous zealotry of the crazy warmista (who are desparately trying to save their own butts!)

  16. John Thorpe says:

    First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win – Mahatma Ghandi

  17. artwest says:

    Sorry, I think this is just a gift to alarmists. However nuanced such a comparison might be, however it’s pitched, someone is going to misrepresent the comparison to make us look bad.
    I don’t see how it helps.

    And Joe Guerk is doing his best to make it look worse. I really, really hope he’s an alarmist troll.

  18. jdgalt says:

    Bravo! This is well and truly called for.

    Though the witch trials may be a better parallel.

  19. Crustacean says:

    Anthony does no discredit to WUWT by pointing out that there are very bad things going on–and that there may be worse to come.

    However, I’m afraid Mr. Thompson’s mistake–and I do think it is one–is the somewhat self-indulgent presumption that his experience of being compelled for no good reason to park a long way from a building entrance gives him an understanding of the experience of systematic racial discrimination.

    Which is too bad, for a couple of reasons: 1) It’s evident Mr. Thompson’s remarks are made in a spirit of good will; and 2) the error of equating the experiences detracts from the real point, which is that if the treatment of AGW skeptics concerns you, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

    The climate-crisis movement is, after all, a creation of the political Left, and if history remains a reliable guide, that means the maltreatment of AGW skeptics will be limited only (repeat, only,) by what the Left believes it can get away with. I’m guessing that at the present moment, the Left believes it can get away with a lot. Things will escalate.

    I’ve seen comments on this web site mentioning the Soviet-era confinement of political dissidents to mental hospitals (and worse, of course, but for the moment the false suggestion of mental illness has the advantage of instant deployability.) As the AGW scam is increasingly discredited by the plain reality in front of our faces, the Left will react as it always does when cornered, with increased viciousness. The fact that the exposure of the Left’s all-time best and biggest scam coincides with its nearly unconstrained power over federal regulatory agencies, popular culture, the academy and establishment science, should make for a fascinating–and extraordinarily unpleasant–few years.

    On a personal note, I detest having to use an alias on this site but have a duty to my employers and others to avoid risk of making them targets for retaliation. Any who doubt that such things will grow increasingly common as AGW becomes decreasingly credible will likely see their doubts resolved in the near term.

  20. princessartemis says:

    “REPLY: Climate skeptics are smeared with pedophile labels and you are worried about this article? Odd – Anthony”

    What is odd about that? That your adversaries act as immature children has nothing to do with the integrity of your blog.

    REPLY: So discussing a touchy subject in an adult manner affects the integrity? I don’t think so. I just think it makes you and some others uncomfortable – Anthony

  21. john robertson says:

    Why should we be surprised by the haters? The same all knowing superiority complex drove eugenics and has been used to keep ghettos alive and well in all our large cities. If you doubt the wisdom of those who are, here to help you, why you must be mentally defective.
    Only in a sheltered academic environment does this facile thinking thrive, ie govt office, in the real work force, where we build things, you quickly learn people are people, the shades and beliefs are non problems and expert is best defined as a drip under pressure. Thats why the self styled experts hate life experienced and skilled people, the emperor wears no clothes, again.
    There is a reason these types abuse the naivety of the young and feeble minded.
    No I do not find Jims parrallels offensive, read black like me years ago, worked with a bunch of Black Power advocates in construction, haters use and create fractures between people to try to control their world. Best summary of their inadequacies , “Hows Your Work”?

  22. Gail Combs says:

    princessartemis says:
    November 25, 2012 at 9:29 am

    At least his protective bubble has finally been pierced, I suppose. What an atrocious article. Maybe he’ll get a hangnail next and come to a sudden understanding of what it’s like to be disabled in America…
    ____________________________
    I do not consider ‘spikes and bombs’ to be just hangnails. Ecoterrorism is very very real and increasing as that paper from George Washington University shows. History shows labeling people and calling them nasty names is the first step in what can become lethal aggression. Until you are labeled there is no target for aggression. Once you are labeled “Deniers” for example, then you can become the focus for escalating the hate. It is a typical tactic used by politicians, and gangs.

    Here is an example:

    Is climate science disinformation a crime against humanity? Deeply irresponsible corporate-sponsored programmes of disinformation have potentially harsh effects upon tens of millions of people ( Donald Brown is associate professor in environmental ethics, science and law at Penn State University.)
    Google returns 84,000 results for the phrase ‘is climate science disinformation a crime against humanity’ they so helpfully provide. (Yet there is absolutely no evidence of major corporate-sponsored programmes of disinformation unless you are talking of CAGW.)

    Once a group is isolated, labeled and smeared with nasty ‘crimes’ history shows that atrocities often follow. We certainly have a recent example of just such a labeling and scapegoating for political gain.

    To ignore this escalation by the powerful who stand to profit from the ‘green project’ $$$$$ is dangerous. They hope we will go away but are not above terrorizing ‘Deniers’ into compliance as the Animal Liberation Front has done.
    See FBI report: http://www.oocities.org/anarcores/fbionalf.html

    (Anyone who does not realize all these groups have the backing of the very powerful are ignoring the money flow.)

  23. Jeremy says:

    This is NOT an acceptable comparison.

    A much better one is the slow rise of the National Socialist Party in the 20”s and 30′s in Germany. As in Germany, everyone’s freedom is slowly being whittled away and ultimately at stake here – not just “skeptics” – the skeptics are only those that have their eyes open the most and the great many who believe in catastrophic global warming are simply victims of state and U.N. sponsored propaganda. Control of the media. Youth movements through NGO’s (heavily government funded if they say the “right” things). Propaganda in institutional education (including but not limited to re-writing of textbooks and re-writing of history). Control of academia and intellectuals (thought leaders) through smears and control of peer review process and through heavy government funding if they say the “right” things.

    All of these elements were steps along the road to eventual domination by the National Socialist Party.

  24. davidmhoffer says:

    John Thorpe says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:27 am
    First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win – Mahatma Ghandi
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I often see this statement made, and it is an exception to the rule. It did not work for:

    6 million Jews murdered in Nazi concentration camps
    2 million Roma and others murdered in the same camps
    8 million Ukrainians starved to death for rising up against the USSR
    20 million Russians and eastern Europeans sent to their death in the Gulags for being against Communism.
    2 million Cambodians for being from urban centres liquidated by the Khmer Rouge
    1 million Kurds and Marsh Arabs murdered by Sadam Hussein for being Kurds and Marsh Arabs
    1 million Tsutsis hacked to death with machetes for not being Hutus

    You think these are matters relegated to history? How long ago was the war in Kosovo? How many people lost their lives to “ethnic cleansing” in a country that only a few years earlier was host to the winter Olympics?

    Civilization is a thin veneer, and Ghandi was a fluke.

  25. Gail Combs says:

    jdgalt says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:35 am

    ….the witch trials may be a better parallel.
    ___________________________________
    Yes racism may have been a poor choice but it is a choice that ‘speaks’ to a lot more people than the ‘witch hunts’ of earlier centuries. I rather doubt many people outside of Salem MA are even more than vaguely aware of the witch hunts. (If you are ever in the Boston area a tour of the Salem Witch Museum is worth the time)

  26. perlcat99 says:

    Your article treads on thin ice. People are hypersensitive to comparisons like this, and they shouldn’t be. I don’t think the original author in any sense meant that he was *experiencing* actual Segregation, as much as that he was coming to a better understanding of what living on the wrong side of that kind of illogical bias and discrimination was like.

    That said, I take a dim view of people using the “racism” label in situations where it doesn’t apply. Turning such a word into a generic takes away from the horror of it, and the people that suffer most from this are the people who are actually experiencing racial discrimination. That goes for people applying the “racist” term to others gratuitously, as well as those who use it to describe their particular non-racial discrimination situation.

    Both racism and the treatment we skeptics experience *do* have the same roots, however — in hatred and intolerance. Sad, really, that a member of a group that rewrote history to gloss over their group’s enthusiastic participation in racial hatred would stoop to more hatred — sad, but entirely unsurprising. After all, there is truth to the Democratic Party statement that they were at the front of all of the Civil Rights battles — they *were* there, along with their State National Guard, water cannon, and dogs. Being on the wrong *side* of every battle is a minor detail they forget to mention, much like reams of contradictory data that refute their cause du jour.

    Not news that unethical people are unethical. More amusing is the revelation that the first letters of one of their propaganda outlets, MS-NBC, stands for “Manure Spreader”-NBC.

  27. Mike Bromley the Kurd says:

    davidmhoffer says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Absolutely! Bravo, Bravo, Bravo. Well said, DMH.

  28. David Ball says:

    I find it funny that people criticize Anthony for running the articles he chooses. The success of WUWT? clearly indicates that Anthony has a firm grasp on what should be posted here.

  29. princessartemis says:

    @Anthony, Fair enough–our opinions differ.

    @Gail Combs; These are things I was aware of. This post talks about carpool lanes and preferential parking and compares them to Jim Crow laws. There is far more nuance to be examined here, but perhaps my “discomfort” with such a comparison is making it difficult to see where that nuance is in the post? Rhetorical question; I return to following in silence.

  30. SandyInLimousin says:

    This was posted by Neil Craig over Bishop Hill but is worth repeating here.

    Pastor Neimoller’s words clearly apply:

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

  31. John Whitman says:

    Anthony and Mods,

    I would agree it is easy for critics of this venue to disclaim on both the appropriateness of this sensitive post and also the open discussion of this sensitive post. But critics can and do consistently show up here do the same on virtually every post here; it is a central virtue of this venue that critics do so. WUWT rocks.

    What comes to mind is this stanza from Kipling’s poem ‘IF’ {emphasis mine}

    If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    And treat those two imposters just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

    Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
    And stoop and build ‘em up with wornout tools;

    John

  32. Owen says:

    Great article !

    The Climate Liars equate me with holocaust denial by calling me a Climate Denier. They’ll be calling me a denier when they throw me into a concentration camp. They won’t even see the irony of their actions.

  33. TomE says:

    As more time passes and the CAGW position weakens, we will see more of the “denier” attacks and as their funding becomes threatened even desperate moves. Since this article involved concerns about racism, what more despicable attacks do we now see than charges of “racism” whenever the competence of a black politician is questioned. CAGW long ago moved from the science arena (if ever there) into the political arena and so expect the disgusting personal attacks to only increase in volume and insanity.

  34. tadchem says:

    If I recall my history, the next step should be the Climate Inquisition, in which the Climate Police (such as the Green Helmets of the EPA) under the Grand Inquisitor (such as Lisa Jackson or her successor) enforces an equivalent of the Alhambra Decree expelling the Skeptics from Western Civilization.

  35. mfo says:

    The point is really about segregation.

    In the example given it was color. In the 30′s and early 40′s in Germany Jews were segregated and then persecuted. From the late 17th century onwards Huguenot’s suffered from violent discrimination and fled. More recently a pediatrician was forced to flee her home after she was intimidated by people who misunderstood her job title and believed her to be a pedophile.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm

    These are all warnings from history and there are many more. The emails show clearly the sly academic persecution of those who disagreed with The Team. Just try getting a job in climate science if you disagree with the ‘consensus’. The propaganda, corruption and flaws in climate science must be exposed and challenged.

  36. arthur4563 says:

    I believe that one of the reasons that warmists are so certain in their beliefs is that they
    mistakenly believe that all skeptics deny that any warming has occurred over the past 100
    years or, if it has, mankind has had zero influence. The real issue, of course is “how much warming” and “how much influence.”. The first issue involves empirical data collected over the years,while the second involves one in theoretical models, etc and is much fuzzier and open to
    dispute. One of the mysteries of our age is why those who want desperately to reduce carbon emissions have not fervently embraced nuclear power I’m not certain, but there seems to be
    growing support amongst the warmist crowd for nuclear power using Thorium, and they also might embrace SMRs (small nuclear reactors) or fast neutron reactors, which can burn nuclear wastes.
    I see this as something that would basically eliminate any reason for further concern and debate on the part of the public about global warming, a subject about which they know so very little..

  37. RobertInAz says:

    This is a terrible analogy. I am embarrassed for WUWT.. Better to reach back to religious persecution examples.

  38. Crispin in Waterloo says:

    Thanks Pamela G for your comment.

    BargHumer says:
    “As climate sceptics you know the science is on your side, just as the black people knew that they were fully human and not lesser animals, and no better or worse than white people.”

    My experience of working with oppressed people is that they often take on the beliefs of the oppressors (whether cultural or political) and really do believe they are inferior while talking up the hopeful idea they are not. Secret belief or worry is hidden by the outward bravado. Positive action (not stopping the oppression) is required to overcome this internalised oppression (as it is properly termed).

    The process of labelling an identifiable group with epithets, often caricatures with a tiny grain of truth or an oft-told story people think is true is quite common. This characterisation and demonisation is followed by escalating the mob to violent hatred and eventual extermination is called ‘Othering’. The purpose of othering is to get the majority mob to believe the minor group is deviate, dirty, a public danger to thinking ‘right thoughts’ and so on. The Government of Iran is practising this systematically on all of their minority religious populations, in particular the largest with a view to getting the general population to believe they are not really humans deserving of rights in the normal sense of the word. They have, for example, expelled all of them from government jobs, cancelled their pensions, expelled from the universities so they cannot get educated, shut down their home-schooling systems, arrested their volunteer professors, jailed their leadership, firebombed their businesses and harrowed up their cemeteries with bulldozers while simultaneously running hate propaganda articles in the government-controlled press on a daily basis. Hitler famously did this and more recently so did the Rwandans (who were successful in getting the public to knowingly tolerate and participate) and many other fanatics before and since. Witnessed what happened to the ‘othered’ Amerindians and you get the picture. In some countries one only needs to call the others ‘heathens’ to pass a publicly enforceable group death sentence.

    In climate ‘science’ othering tries to get you to believe that ‘denialists’ are not worthy of consideration, especially if they are ‘scientists’ who have somehow become apostates deviating from the true Cause and have been ‘possessed’ by the ‘devil of big corporate misguidance’ into denying the ‘true beliefs of the faithful’. The punishment is similar: expulsion from jobs, denial of funding, demonisation in the press, threats to life and limb, misrepresentation of motive and calls from the margin (tacitly approved by the center) for death to the misbelievers who are creating such an intolerable risk for the whole community. The real motive of is course power and money.

    The religious parallel is complete for the reason that the argument in favour of AGW is prepared on that basis. It is para-religious movement with para-clerics who define ‘what the words mean’ in any way they wish, even in contradiction of themselves. That is the very definition of priestcraft. SkS and RC are ‘priestly enterprises’. The faithful are always reminded of the perils of listening to the voice of the devilish who are the ever-present and subtle dangers leading to perdition.

    Sitting at root of this mess are the same old boring ideologues with their ‘religion of irreligion’ barking up the same old boring trees. It is interesting that the subtitle of these anti-corporate statements is a belief they are fighting fascism which is a blend of state and corporate entities so each fatwa is phrased on that basis. They are fanatically opposed in the political realm by some who want a different sort of religio-economic paradigm of equal strangeness. The middle ground where sanity prevails is disappearing. There is nearly no difference between the two: both want to control the state, both want to demonise the other, both use ‘othering’ as a tactic to generate hate, both result in catastrophe for the whole community. The far Right and their inveterate enemies on the far Left both use the ‘othering’ tactic, let us be clear about that. Polarisation is the name of the game and both poles are making disastrous moves as they race to the moral bottom. We need a new paradigm.

  39. Petrossa says:

    Weird how the USA is still stuck in this race thing. I remember being astonished at the 2008 Obama election about how proud everyone was they were not racist, because see, we have a black president. As statements go you couldn’t get more racist then that.

    Here in the article there is a comparison between the Jow Crow laws effects and the way skeptics are treated. Neutrally this comparison is valid.

    What i see here a lot is emotionally charged comments as a result. Those who react emotionally should realize they are still being racist in their minds. Why else react emotionally to something that happened a long time ago?

    It’s like harping on a current german for ww2. What did he do? What has a current black have to do with the Jow Crow laws? Do you inherit them or something? And do the whites inherit the guilt?

    Get over it already.

  40. Rob Honeycutt says:

    Can anyone here honestly claim to have ever been refused use of a water fountain? Refused use of a toilet? Told you had to use the rear entrance of a hotel? Told you had to sit at the back of the bus? Only because of your position on AGW? Have any of your relatives been lynched? Have you had people shoot at your house while your family were eating dinner? Have you ever been awakened in the night to people burning a cross in your yard?

    These are all very real actions that Black Americans faced in the 20th century. The author of the article clearly is not well read on what “black citizen in the South during the height of Jim Crow laws” actually faced.

    This belittles the true challenges faced by Black Americans in this country during the Jim Crow era.

  41. davidmhoffer says:

    princessartemis;
    There is far more nuance to be examined here, but perhaps my “discomfort” with such a comparison is making it difficult to see where that nuance is in the post?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The nuance may be more obvious I suppose to those of us who have been following the debate closely and for a long period of time. I draw your attention to:

    The “10:10″ video in which children were gleefully murdered for expressing skeptic views. Withdrawn in a storm of protest.

    The GreenPeace editorial advocating violence against skeptics and threatening that “we know where you live, we know where you work”. Also withdrawn in a storm of protest.

    Multiple psychology papers have been published suggested that skeptics are suffering from a mental defect.

    Calls from noted scientists including David Suzuki and James Hansen for skeptic views to be criminalized and punished with jail time.

    A recent seminar at a major research institute in…. (Boulder? I forget) asking “what to do with the skeptics”. How is this different than asking “what to do with the Jews”?

    The use of the word “den*er” to associate skeptics with holocaust den*al, recent attempts to suggest that being skeptical is similar to advocating pedophilia…. the nuances are all around you, they are rooted in the precise same tactics that have been used before to justify atrocities and they will succeed again unless we stand up to them. Civilization is a very thin veneer.

    Evil grows in the dark. Thank you to Anthony for shining some light on it.

  42. Dan in Nevada says:

    Gene Doebley says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:07 am
    “Yes, they call us names and denigrate our intelligence but I just don’t see the parallel to racism…”

    Racism is just one expression of tribalism, the tendency to trust those that are like us and be willing to believe just about anything about “the others”. That it’s so deeply ingrained implies there were evolutionary advantages to fierce loyalty to one’s family, clan, or tribe.

    The very worst of cynical politicians exploit this by demonizing “japs”, “huns”, “gooks”, serbs, “sand-n****rs”, whoever we are supposed to hate at the moment to further their agenda. Loyalty to the regime is in direct proportion to the contempt we feel for the perceived enemy; they are the two sides of the same coin. Importantly, it doesn’t matter which side you’re on when the appeal is to tribalism and not rational thought – defending your tribe trumps questions of who is right.

    In my opinion, appealing to tribalistic instincts automatically puts one’s position in doubt and very likely makes it wrong. The success of WUWT is owed in large part to Anthony’s appeal to reason. Here he’s pointing out that the tactics employed by some abjure rational thought and rely on appeals to humanity’s baser instincts.

  43. DirkH says:

    The concern trolls have been quick on the last few threads.

    I sense a whole lotta itchin in the Force…

  44. Scarface says:

    Jeremy says: (November 25, 2012 at 10:55 am )

    “As in Germany, everyone’s freedom is slowly being whittled away and ultimately at stake here – not just “skeptics” – the skeptics are only those that have their eyes open the most and the great many who believe in catastrophic global warming are simply victims of state and U.N. sponsored propaganda.”

    You’re absolutely right. The way things go at the moment, the grim agenda of the greens will only be questioned by the rest when it is too late. Unless their deceit gets exposed timely. But how? And by whom?

  45. Downdraft says:

    I have to disagree with equating denigration of skeptics with racism. People can’t disguise or change their race, and at least so far, discrimination against skeptics is not institutionalized. Their are parallels to the purpose of denigration of skeptics and denigration of racial minorities, but it ends their. Both are denigrated because one side fears the ideas of the other, or needs a scapegoat for their own feelings of inadequacy.
    Some warmists have advocated for laws against skeptics, some even saying that skepticism should be a felony. That is more akin to religious persecution than racism, and that I think is the real parallel. Warmists would like to see skeptics treated as religious heretics, which fits well with the idea that AGW is a religion. I see parallels to the dark ages witch hunts, persecution of Protestants by Catholics, etc.

  46. John West says:

    While I certainly wouldn’t say I’m offended by the comparison, I think the suppression of genetics in Russia circa 1940’s makes for a far better comparison. An obvious difference is that one can’t look at me and tell I’m a skeptic. I also can’t claim any discrimination in my field (Electrochemistry) even though I’m known to be skeptic; actually, most chemists, engineers, mathematicians, and biologists that I regularly work with are also skeptics (probably on the order of 97%). I suspect that unless you’re a climatologist, a meteorologist, or at least someone doing research/publishing in the field that you’ve probably not been touched by much discrimination aside from a few internet name calling incidents, perhaps a headache or two from constant eye rolling while taking you’re son/daughter to the local science museum, and the constant threat of high blood pressure arising from the frustration of charlatans who seem to always get away with saying anything (and omitting anything) to promote their pocket lining, control grabbing, economy busting agenda.

    “The term “Lysenkoism” denote a very dangerous phenomenon: an effort to suppress and/or outlaw a field of research or opinions when they conflict with a dominant political agenda.”
    http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/lysenkoism.shtml

  47. Richdo says:

    Jim Thompson didn’t dig far enough into his somewhat sensitive observation. There are many more parallels between the modern CAGW extremist ideology and the emergence of racial segregation if one digs a bit into the topic.

    In part, racial segregation in the US was viewed as socially acceptable and even desirable because it had a “legitimate scientific” basis: Eugenics. For decades academic, political and social progressive elites promoted the disgusting “science” of eugenics and its aims of “genetic purity”. They built a virtual “consensus” around the flawed science that permeated businesses, schools, government and almost all social institutions. The common man was taught to believe that a Black man was fundamentally inferior to a Caucasian.

    Is any of this sounding familiar?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
    http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/essay6text.html
    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/10/04/the-final-solution-to-the-global-warming-skeptic-question/

  48. jorgekafkazar says:

    Maybe not the best simile at the present time, but still apt. I do agree with Jeremy, however, that the rise of the NSDAP is a better analogy. Except that until 1934, the NSDAP got more bad press than AGW proponents ever have.

    Never, ever forget the 10-10 video. It shows most accurately what is in the minds and hearts of AGW activists.

  49. DavidG says:

    Leaving a scalding reply on the ABC complaint line was particularly enjoyable,even if only their dog reads it. This kind of dehumanizing done so well by the Nazis is now being done by the CAGW crowd. My main complaint about the majority of skeptics and their tactics, including yours, Anthony, is that you think( pls. correct me if I am wrong) this argument is about science. Though science is what we argue about, the people funding the 24/7 propaganda assault that has been going on for nearly 20 years are not interested in science per se; their goal is mass manipulation, leading to a complete reorganization of life on earth. A laughable idea you may say, but isn’t it those ideas which are laughable to majority which usually come back and bite them on the ass.

    It also means a severe population reduction.
    I recommend everyone watches the ‘Century of the Self’ by Adam Curtis on YouTube.

    There you will see what’s really going on and how it is being done. Edward Bernays, one of the most significant men of the 20th century, was the nephew of Sigmund Freud, the founder of Psychoanalysis. Bernays invented PR. His books were prominent on the bookshelves of every horrible tyrant of the last 80 years, from Hitler to Stalin to Mao. Quite a triple play! There is no doubt at all that his book is on all the CAGW big cheeses bookshelves as well. Who are the elites behind this. I won’t say here in a vain attempt to avoid being labeled a conspiracy theorist, but a brief look at the personal backgrounds of Al Gore and Obama’s science guy, Holdren, will tell you who it is. In this instance and at this time, who is less important than how. Forewarned is forearmed, they say..

  50. Gene Selkov says:

    davidmhoffer includes in the list of victims of trait antagonism (call it “racism” or “class struggle” — no difference — the same animal instinct at work):

    “20 million Russians and eastern Europeans sent to their death in the Gulags for being against Communism.”

    To be precise, of the 20 million killed, very few were against communism or ever cared to know what it was. Calling somebody “anti-communist” or “the enemy of the people” or a “traitor” was the most expedient way of eliminating a competitor or somebody you didn’t like.

  51. pokerguy says:

    Princessartemis writes : “…. What an atrocious article. Maybe he’ll get a hangnail next and come to a sudden understanding of what it’s like to be disabled in America.

    Anthony, I have been quietly following WUWT for years. It has demonstrated itself to be better than this in the past:”

    Boy do I agree with this. Anthony, I’m a great fan but your tone deafness here is deeply depressing. Even disturbing. I’m a global warming skeptic surrounded by liberal democrat, full on believers. My family, my friends, many acquaintences. Yes, it sure is frustrating at times. Even maddening. But the notion that I now understand what it was like to be a black man in the bad old days in the South is beyond silly. You’ve made yourself look foolish by publishing this nonsense.

  52. Ric Werme says:

    Another term that is much used and much abused is “diversity.” If diversity is so great, as is taught these days, we should thankful (especially while feasting turkey leftovers) for all the AGW proponents, AGW skeptics, bureaucrats, lawyers, lobbyists, congress, con men, burglars, counterfeiters, murderers, and even people like me. (Mostly swedish-american, still waiting for his check from Big Oil.)

    Oh – the car-pool lanes were to try to get as many commuters down the road in fewer vehicles, at least all the ones I know of were for congestion control, not for saving the planet.

  53. Sparks says:

    Just be skeptical about what ever you want, the psychological manipulation will eventually be engineered later to prove you are wrong. It’s called warfare in some countries.

  54. pokerguy says:

    Anthony, Just to add, I’ve been reading WUWT for several years now. I’ve come to rely on it, and be heartened by it. I read your blog and understand that all is not lost. Sanity will prevail. I’m sorry for my harsh words above, but must stand by them nonetheless. I hope you’ll reconsider and acknowledge what in my view is a mistake that does the skeptical cause no favors.

  55. Gail Combs says:

    perlcat99 says:
    November 25, 2012 at 11:01 am

    …Not news that unethical people are unethical. More amusing is the revelation that the first letters of one of their propaganda outlets, MS-NBC, stands for “Manure Spreader”-NBC.
    _________________________________________
    What is really interesting is MS-NBC tie-in with Obama’s Jobs Czar, General Electric’s CEO Jeffrey Immelt. Immelt is (an expert at creating foreign jobs notes Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

    Comcast Corporation (Nasdaq: CMCSA; CMCSK) and General Electric (NYSE: GE) yesterday closed their transaction to create a joint venture…

    The new company is 51 percent owned by Comcast, 49 percent owned by GE,…

    J.P. Morgan was lead financial advisor to GE with Goldman Sachs and Citi acting as co-advisors….
    http://blog.comcast.com/2011/01/comcast-and-ge-complete-transaction-to-form-nbcuniversal-llc.html

  56. D Böehm says:

    pokerguy,

    This is an article from a source that Anthony linked to for discussion. Have you completely missed the calls for scientific skeptics to be labeled mentally ill? Or for the rounding up of skeptics, for merely having a different scientific point of view? You don’t seem to understand where that kind of thinking will lead.

    Segregation of blacks generally did not include calls for them to be locked up in psychiatric institutions. To me, the current attacks against skeptics is worse in some ways. History is repeating, and if you don’t understand that it is because you have not read enough history.

  57. Truthseeker says:

    davidmhoffer says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:56 am
    ——————————————————–
    The best comment on the thread … by a long way.

    For all of the other critics of this posting by Anthony, you may be right to the extent that the anti-denier attitude is not nearly as pervasive or as intense as the racist attitudes of segregation in either the US or South Africa, but those attitudes had a beginning. That beginning was in the dehumanising of a group based on an irrelevant characteristic (skin colour). This is the same beginning and must be stopped before it goes anywhere. This article shows where we could end up if good people do nothing.

  58. johanna says:

    Not a comparison I would have chosen.

    I agree with posters above who say that religious persecution is much more apt.

  59. Gail Combs says:

    TomE says:
    November 25, 2012 at 11:24 am

    As more time passes and the CAGW position weakens, we will see more of the “denier” attacks and as their funding becomes threatened even desperate moves. Since this article involved concerns about racism, what more despicable attacks do we now see than charges of “racism” whenever the competence of a black politician is questioned…
    _____________________________
    Or a black employee. I am REALLY REALLY sick and tired of the “Race Card” being played just to cover-up incompetence. I was around in the 1950′s and 60′s when REAL racism was alive. I was subject to discrimination from grade school on and so it makes me very angry to see racism being fanned into life again by the MSM and politicians hoping to use it for gaining power.

    It does blacks no good to allow the race card to be played for political advantage and it should be condemned when it is used that way.

  60. wsbriggs says:

    It’s funny how sensitive that people are about race, when the most vicious attacks ever were about what you did for a living, or does the starvation of the Kulaks (~42 million dead) in Russia during the Stalin era not count. Americans are way too sensitive about color, and readily forget that most genocide has nothing to do with color. For someone to get a small ah-ha moment is not to be disparaged. Real transparency leads to real communication. I’m glad he said what he felt, he should continue to learn and talk about it.

    Maybe another spate of Ted Kazinsky type bombings would bring the whole thing into focus. Ted was already starting the eco-war. The thought police are just a declaration away in some countries – see how quickly it went in Egypt.

    This site is as far as I can see, about communication. Let’s stop with the thought police.

  61. Sun Spot says:

    Anthony I support your posting of this article and the open dialog that ensued. Shame on those who advocate for restrictive thought on discrimination.

  62. Martin Clark says:

    Following up on greg copeland (smokes and skeptical) Crustacean (detests having to use an alias):
    For these and other reasons, two years ago I gave up tolerating all the aggravation and went private. My field is town planning and building design. Very much on the receiving end of the CAGW/CC creed. I am findable, but so far have not needed to advertise my services. I get regular referrals, and more work than I can handle – in a market that presently moribund.
    The aggravation is still there apparently, but I tend not to turn up at the venues and events where it is likely to be expressed to me personally.
    Clients have told me they contacted me because they had been “warned” that I was a skeptic :-)

  63. Caleb says:

    Perhaps the writer could have used a better analogy, however the subject is now being switched from the way people like myself have been treated, for being skeptical about Global Warming, to the dead past of the Jim Crow Era.

    I don’t care a rodent’s posterior about the Jim Crow Era. It’s over.

    If people are going to get all hypersensitive, please do it about little children being blown up because they don’t believe in Global Warming. I found that video appalling, yet never have heard the slightest hint of an apology for it, from any Alarmists.

    Have you? Can you link me to a YouTube of Bill McKibben stating that a video blowing up children might have been an itty bitty bit overboard? Or, instead, do we have public figures like Hansen equating the coal trains which keep our elderly warm during winter with genocide’s “death trains?”

    I have been putting up with this bullying abuse for seven years now, and am hugely glad Anthony and others have had the guts to stand up to it and point it out and call Alarmist behavior what it is.

    How stupid these Alarmists are! You show them perfectly proper and elegant evidence that it was warmer when the Vikings grew barley in Greenland, and they do what? They call you a pedophile? They state you belong locked up in a mental hospital? They attempt to get you fired?

    You have to stand up to this nonsense. Unfortunately, judging from some of the comments to this post, there are people who agree the Alarmist’s bullying is wrong, but lack the spine to stand up to it. Instead they cower. They may think they are being reasonable, but their blithering, yammering intellectualism is only a justification for their cowering.

    (Now watch. They will venture forth like brave mice to rebuke me, but will they ever rebuke an Alarmist they actually know, in their real life? Do they even dare post using their real name?

  64. Ian W says:

    While understanding the intent of the article it is a poor analogy as skin color is not a personal decision. The same criticism can be laid at the door of the ‘gay’ community claiming that discrimination against them is the same as that against ‘African Americans’ before the ‘civil rights’ movement. The end to segregation is all too fresh in the psyche of African Americans even slavery means far more to them than it does to citizens other countries.

    However, Jeremy says: November 25, 2012 at 10:55 am has it right to compare it to the rise of National Socialism in Germany. After all we are being called ‘deniers’ and that is the same time period. Luminaries in the AGW camp like George Soros will understand that too as Jews looked just like everyone else and if they acted like everyone else and supported the political activities of the majority, they could and did avoid concentration camps and the holocaust.

    However, there are two very important points that have been missed which should not be glossed over:
    (1) Not an Opinion. The ‘deniers’ are saying that human activities were not responsible for all the warming that has taken place in the last hundred years. This is not a political point of view it is based on empirical science. If forecasts from several people posting here, Russian scientists and even NASA are to be believed we can expect cold or even quite severe cold in the next decade. This will not be something the politicians can hide as it is not an opinion when the cold comes and there are severe famines due to crop failures and the windfarms cannot provide power to heat homes. I think this is why there is a real rush to put in place laws and Global Governance before Gaia shows how hard life can be.

    (2) What DO we believe in? We should all state outright that we believe the climate changes – in fact we believe it doesn’t need assistance from human activities to change, it has been changing all on its own in the same way for millennia. We also actually believe that the Earth has become warmer – there has been global warming – since the end of the Little Ice Age; but that it was warmer before then in the Medieval Warm Period. It is the ‘warmists’ and their political masters who are the climate change deniers, as they claim to not believe in natural climate change and the preceding naturally occurring warm and cold periods: they blame any change in climate on human activity so that they can tax it. We therefore believe that much of the false panic about climate catastrophe is intended to justify raising taxes and assumption of power and control over the population.

    We must show what we DO believe as well as what we do not believe. Put the ‘denier’ label on the warmists where it belongs.

  65. Matthew Carver says:

    Off on a few levels. First of which is that there have not to date been any climate murders that I know of. Second. I can choose not to speak about global warming to people. One can’t choose to not be black or Jewish. Stupid analogy that weakens your legitimate arguments on science. Lord Monckton would tear this analogy up.

  66. Gail Combs says:

    Rob Honeycutt says:
    November 25, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    ….Have any of your relatives been lynched? Have you had people shoot at your house while your family were eating dinner?….
    ____________________________________
    You have your head in the sand if you can not see the danger headed straight at us. (Anthony please take care)
    My neighbor had his house shot-up and I have had incidences happen which I reported to the FBI.

    So yes it is happening and it is ESCALATING! Just look at the FBI report I posted above.

    Here are more
    FBI accuses 3 environmentalists of bomb plot… Also “Last year, homemade bombs believed to be planted by followers of ELF failed to detonate at two government buildings in Auburn and at a house under construction. Ryan Daniel Lewis, 22, of Newcastle (Placer County), was arrested and pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted arson and one count of arson.”

    Ecoterrorism: Extremism in the Animal Rights and Environmentalist Movements
    During the past two decades, radical environmental and animal rights groups have claimed responsibility for hundreds of crimes and acts of terrorism, including arson, bombings, vandalism and harassment, causing more than $100 million in damage. While some activists have been captured, ecoterror cells – small and loosely affiliated – are extremely difficult to identify and most attacks remain unsolved.

    …The Earth Liberation Front

    By 2004, ALF’s environmental counterpart, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), was setting new records for property damage. Modeled after ALF, ELF consists of “autonomous groups of people” who are “anonymous not only to the public but also to one another,” according to its Web site. The movement aims to “inflict economic damage on those profiting from the destruction and exploitation of the natural environment” …
    The methods of Earth First! proved too moderate for some of its members…

    hundreds of crimes have been committed in the name of environmental protection nationwide. The most damaging occurred on August 1, 2003, when arsonists burned down a housing complex under construction in San Diego, destroying a five-story building and 100-foot-high crane; losses were estimated at $50 million…

    …Car dealerships and sport utility vehicles are also common targets for ELF. On August 22, 2003, approximately 40 Hummers and SUVs were destroyed or damaged in a fire at a West Covina, California, dealership, causing about $2 million in damages….

    Although no longer ELF’s official publicist, Rosebraugh remained influential in the movement and continued to give lectures and presentations at colleges and universities.
    …Pickering underscored this ideological expansion: “Violence is a necessary element of an oppressive struggle…to overthrow an oppressive government…[ELF is] only part of a larger building revolutionary movement that won’t stop until it has a successful overthrow of this country.”

    Ecoterror and Violence: Targeting Humans

    …An anonymous e-mail claiming responsibility for the incident said that activists had used a 10-pound ammonium nitrate bomb “strapped with nails.” Although the building sustained minimal damage, the e-mail warned that “we will now be doubling the size of every device we make” and that “customers and their families are considered legitimate targets.”

    We gave all the customers the chance, the choice, to withdraw their business from HLS,” the e-mail said. “Now you all will have to reap what you have sown….You never know when your house, your car even, might go boom….Or maybe it will be a shot in the dark.”

    If the MSM whips up enough hate against ‘deniers’ do you doubt these eco-terrorists will not come after the ‘leaders’ and anyone else they identify? If they are willing to go after innocent people for buying products from a company they hate what do you think will happen when they turn on ‘deniers’? What will happen if and when the CAGW green movement goes belly-up and the power elite find another cash cow to milk abandoning solar power and windmills? The Deniers will become the scapegoats and if you had any brains you can see the set-up is already taking place.

  67. Greg House says:

    arthur4563 says (November 25, 2012 at 11:45 am): “I believe that one of the reasons that warmists are so certain in their beliefs is that they mistakenly believe that all skeptics deny that any warming has occurred over the past 100 years or, if it has, mankind has had zero influence.”
    ===============================================================

    Logically, what you said makes zero sense. Simplified, you statement is: “X believes zzzzz because X believes that Y denies zzzzz”. No sense at all, sorry.

    Second, “say something” and “believe something” are 2 different things. Sometimes people say that they believe what they do not believe at all. I guess the concept of lying for political and ideological reasons is familiar to you.

  68. Gail Combs says:

    Truthseeker says:
    November 25, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    davidmhoffer says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:56 am
    ——————————————————–
    The best comment on the thread … by a long way.
    _____________________________
    I will second that and raise it to a request that Anthony post that comment at the top of the page where it deserves to be.

  69. Gail Combs says:

    OOPS, My Bad, I liked davidmhoffer’s comment but it is Crispin in Waterloo’s comment @
    November 25, 2012 at 11:50 am That is the best explanation of the situation and should be placed under the article.

  70. Niff says:

    I listened to the ABC article and it was utterly disgusting. The kind of conniving skulduggery that you would expect in a private conspiracy in a pub. Prof L. is so obviously more likely a candidate for psychological examination than any of the deniers he wants to denigrate, it is as ironic as it is alarming. I admit to being at a loss as to why there should be such hate. What is the source of it? Is it the kind of psychological issue that Prof L is talking about (in reverse)…what irony?

    I recently referred to some greenies as “evil” and was immediately admonished by my wife. I am now thinking that this was exactly the correct definition. Why are we afflicted by THIS evil?

  71. Apartheid begins somewhere very small and it grows.
    I was at the University of Cape Town in South Africa in 1967 when the Government policy of apartheid was at its height. The policy of the denigration of a very large sector of the population was promulgated in the press and on the radio (there was no television in South Africa then). The propaganda was relentless. To my horror I found that I was beginning to accept the false premises of this iniquitous system after only a few months. And why not? I was one of those favoured by the System.
    The quandary in which I found myself, either to accept my privileged position within the System or to reject it and to suffer the consequences was solved by a comparatively minor incident.
    A man working up a ladder on the house opposite to where a friend and I were studying, fell when the ladder broke. He fell and injured his back. We called an ambulance. When it arrived one of the crew members informed us that they could not assist as they were a “white” ambulance and could not take a coloured person. The threats of violence by my friend and I ensured that the injured man was conveyed to Groote Schuure Hospital where he was successfully treated.
    This incident drove home to me, most forcefully, what discrimination, segregation or differentiation on the grounds of colour, belief or shoe-size (included to demonstrate how trivial the previous two categories are) really mean. I rebelled against apartheid and ended up being refused access to South Africa in my final year at the U of Cape Town (I was a Zambian resident).
    Discrimination on any grounds remains anathema to me these many years later. There are no degrees of ‘discrimination’. If it exists it is evil.
    The insidious ‘denormalisation’ of smokers is the thin end of the wedge in persuading people to accept degrees of discrimination. The allocation of parking spaces to ‘acceptable’ vehicles is another inch of the wedge driven home.
    The analogy the author of this article makes in no way equates colour discrimination with car-park discrimination. What he does is high-light the fact that DISCRIMINATION lives!
    The evil of treating someone differently because of some arbitrarily chosen fact has not only become acceptable but has become Law and that can never be tolerated.
    I dread the coming of the Carbon Inquisition. I am doomed.

  72. aharris says:

    This kind of marginalization of a group of people based on what beliefs they espouse is not unique to climate change skeptics and neither is the treatment they are receiving. Being a conservative, white, Christian and a climate skeptic, I draw fire from several different angles. It’s all designed to dehumanize the “other.” If you can dehumanize your opponent, you delegitimize everything they say and can readily dismiss it without having to think about it overmuch. The danger is that when you can dehumanize the other, you also open them to treatment as a subhuman entity whether this is by accident or design, and when that happens, we see the results in the Jim Crow South, Stalin’s Russia, Hitler’s Germany and other places where people have been and are subject to degraded treatment – the many countries of the Middle East are also a good object lesson.

    The thing that worries me is that rhetoric has been ramping up over the past decade, and I’m afraid that it’s only a matter of time before words are followed by actions. Then this comparison, while it seems overblown and offensive to some now, may not be such an academic matter.

  73. davidmhoffer says:

    Ian W;
    Jews looked just like everyone else and if they acted like everyone else and supported the political activities of the majority, they could and did avoid concentration camps and the holocaust.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This is a blatant lie and an egregious anti-Semitic statement. If by intent then it is one of the most racist remarks ever made in this forum. If by ignorance, then allow me to set the record straight:

    There were Jews active in the Nazi party, and fully believed that because they were Germans and Nazis first and foremost, that they were only Jews as an accident of heritage, that they would be safe in the new regime. When the Nazis came to power, those Jews were slaughtered like any other Jew. The Nazis researched in detail birth records to identify every last bit of Jewish DNA they could find. In some cases, they sent to the death camps entire families who weren’t even aware that they had a single great grandfather who was a Jew.

    The notion that they acted in some way that brought their fate upon them is as ignorant as suggesting they could have escaped their fate simply by changing their DNA.

    You owe millions of people who died in the holocaust an apology.

  74. beesaman says:

    You can treat me like a second class citizen, but don’t expect me to behave like one!
    Down with the tyranny of CAGW and the Green hate and spite that goes with it…

  75. Dan in Nevada says:

    Caleb says:
    November 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    “… I don’t care a rodent’s posterior about the Jim Crow Era. It’s over…”

    You should. It’s an era where bigotry not only thrived, but was given the full force of law. It’s one thing for people to have dissenting opinions, quite another to have a group able to enforce their ideas via incarceration, fines, even execution. Jim Crow is important to keep in mind for all those people who maintain “it couldn’t happen here”.

  76. Chuck Nolan says:

    Although the parallel seems a long stretch think about this.
    Not every white man wants to hang every black man he sees but, there are some and some have done just that.
    Not every alarmist wants to explode every skeptic he sees but there are some…..
    So what’s the next step.
    I’ve seen the videos so I know terrorist style killings are in someones mind.
    Hate = Hate
    cn

  77. Old Ranga from Oz says:

    Respect to everyone, but for me the article was pointing to the brutal implications of group-think. And the power that group-thinkers can wield, even though that power eventually wanes. As it always has throughout human history.

    I valued Jim Thompson’s observations. Thanks for posting the piece, Anthony.

  78. Steve B says:

    Some of the commenters here really don’t get it. It doesn’t matter whether the analogy is racist based, religion based or whatever. It is about denigrating the other side to further the agenda. Tribalism is what it is all about and we all know where that goes.

  79. Don Worley says:

    Not a great analogy.
    Blacks do not choose to be black. Aside from Michael Jackson, they cannot change or hide their color.

    I don’t think the persecution angle serves anyone well. If you are confident in your views, there is no reason to feel persecuted. Feel pity for the ignorant perpetrators.

  80. Goldie says:

    I find the current situation to be reprehensible. As a (very) qualified environmental scientist/engineer, I have always tried to make my own assessment of the facts before making a decision. In this case, I remain unconvinced of the rhetoric and know for a fact that the models are wrong – after all none of them, not one, give the slightest hint of the current hiatus in temperature rise so they are clearly missing something important.
    A key component of making one’s own assesment is not to be stampeded by the crowd and if necessary to stand apart.
    My personal conversations with folks is that most “believers” do not even know the basic facts and are running with the herd because of the emotive nature of the topic. When I say folks, I should note that I spend my life working with environmental scientists and engineers and I am saddened to report that very few have made any effort to verify the facts for themselves. whether I am right or they are right, this cannot be a good thing.

  81. Doug Allen says:

    perlcat99 when he says at 11:01 AM above “After all, there is truth to the Democratic Party statement that they were at the front of all of the Civil Rights battles — they *were* there, along with their State National Guard, water cannon, and dogs. Being on the wrong *side* of every battle is a minor detail they forget to mention, much like reams of contradictory data that refute their cause du jour.” must be too young to remember that those were the Democrats which became Republicans thanks to Nixon’s “southerm strategy.” I was there. I lived through it.
    There’s nothing wrong with Jim Thompson’s insight above that helps him have empathy with the “colored” of my youth and before. If the race comparison upsets you, then try gay or muslim or illegal alien as the analogy. Go back some centuries and try heliocentric.

  82. stefanthedenier says:

    The root of the problem is: climatic changes are for real – GLOBAL warming is 100% lie – BUT, the clever Warmist pined the name Climate Change Skeptics, to their opponents… opponents are proud of it === For the people on the street; anybody not believing in climatic changes, is a nutcase / needs a Shrink. Nobody can blame them, for thinking like that. Reason the Warmist are laughing all the way to the bank, with trillion dollars loot money.

    Between not believing in phony GLOBAL warmings, and not believing in ”climatic changes” is light-years difference, but not for the Fake Skeptics… They ”believe” in the phony GLOBAL warmings; BUT are ‘skeptical” about the big / small, good / bad climatic changes – COULDN’T BE MORE BACK-TO FRONT, no matter how harder they try. In other words: as long as the Fakes are Warmist’ fig-leafs, covering up the Warmist’ shame, for lying that localized warmings (which are THE climatic changes) are presenting them as GLOBAL… the leading Warmist will be in charge of the media, politicians, finances; and keep destroying western democracies… who is more guilty?

  83. Day By Day says:

    @ Aldous Tenpenney says: Incredibly tone-deaf. You’re sullying your website’s brand tremendously.

    Strange–you think it is tone deaf? Any more tone deaf than when a link goes to the commerical by warmests of little kids heads blowing up if they fail to support the AGW?

    I think WUWT has to explore all sides of the issues–linking to a newspaper article that explores one aspect of the “denier” lable is responsible, not tone deaf. If Anthony only explored and linked to politically correct material, this site would not be worth reading.

    @Petrossa says: Get over it already Right on…

    @ SandyInLimousin:
    The quote you cite is from 1974–Pastor Neimoller’s first one was better:
    Communists
    Incurably sick
    Jews or Jehovah’s Witnesses (depending on which speech)
    People in countries occupied by Nazi Germany.

  84. DavidG says:

    Davidmhofer- you are an ignorant jerk. You don’t know beans about the holocaust so shut up!
    Everything you said is dead wrong and an infamy.

  85. “Sssh…did you hear that?”
    “What?”
    “A kind of a whining sound coming from the front end of the comments section?”
    “Oh don’t worry about that, those are just Warmist trolls pretending to be offended…they make that irritating noise when people say things they don’t like.”
    “But how do you know they’re Warmist trolls?”
    “Well that’s a very distinctive sound and 97% of the time anyone making that noise will be suffering from a bad case of ‘political correctness’.”
    “Oh I know, that’s when people get really sensitive and righteous but really all they’re trying to do is shut down your opinion…even when you’re simply stating something that is obvious and true.”
    “You don’t hear it much here at WUWT.”
    “I know, thank heavens, that’s why most people come here, because you know PC is one of the foundations of CAGW. And WUWT unlike the Warmist websites actually permits opposing views to be aired.”
    “It’s stopped now, the noise.”
    “Of course it has, the Offendocrats have moved on in search of more things that will upset them, things they can tsk, tut and huff at… it’s like a compulsion for them, they can’t help themselves’.”

  86. DavidG says:

    I may have misspoken- Ian W. is the jerk here. not davidmhofer- sorry

  87. Hoser says:

    I noticed at least one person was as upset as I was by the comparison to segregation in the South. Jim, buddy, you ain’t go no clue. How many of your ancestors were beaten and killed? How many of your relatives were lynched?

    I have deep sympathy for the people, the families who truly suffered. I do not include those benefitting today from the discrimination industry led by Jesse Jackson, and the Reverend Al. I have sorrow for the loss of once vibrant communities destroyed by government programs like the Great Society. I certainly don’t pity the racist heirs of Malcolm X, who seek a separate nation.

    Instead, I remember Dr, Martin Luther King, Jr. When we understand we are all brothers and sisters, all suffering under the burden of Obama’s debt, control, and craving for power, then there will be real hope. Division will not help. Envy will not help. Working together we can rebuild our American Dream, but we need government off our backs.

    Equal opportunity doesn’t mean equal outcome. Equal outcome is a lie that really equates to poverty for everyone except a very small powerful elite. Think Mexico, or the old Soviet Union.

  88. Theo Goodwin says:

    Sean says:
    November 25, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Obviously, you do not teach at an American university or college. Sceptics get the same reception that Rush Limbaugh would get if he presented a lecture at Harvard on Sandra Fluke.

    Also, it is important to give some thought to what our future might hold. Minorities developed valuable “coping” techniques under segregation. Reflecting on minorities’ history might help sceptics learn some important truths.

  89. u.k.(us) says:

    It is not even all that for me.

    It is just all the money being wasted on a guilt trip.
    It improves nothing, at the detriment of all.
    Mistakes happen, but to continue making the same mistake, reveals a lack of …….

  90. Theo Goodwin says:

    David Ball says:
    November 25, 2012 at 11:06 am
    “I find it funny that people criticize Anthony for running the articles he chooses. The success of WUWT? clearly indicates that Anthony has a firm grasp on what should be posted here.”

    Amen! Anthony is the genius of serious blogs today. I too am amazed at the number of people eager to give him advice on how to do it.

    Also, folks who are criticizing Anthony for the comparison to segregation are uniformly taking a cheap shot at Anthony. Surely, obviously, Anthony did not mean to suggest the situations of AGW sceptics today and minorities under segregation are comparable in difficulties experienced. Obviously. So, stop taking cheap shots.

    My interpretation, which I suggest everyone take very seriously, is that we would do well to look at the history of segregation to give us some ideas about what we might very well face in coming years. Keep in mind that today if you own a small business that employs more than fifty “full time equivalents” then you are required by law to pay for their contraceptives and all the consequences of their misuse of their contraceptives.

  91. Dan Pangburn says:

    Paraphrasing Richard Feynman: Regardless of how many experts believe it or how many organizations concur, if it doesn’t agree with observation, it’s wrong.

    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), some politicians and many others stubbornly continue to proclaim that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was the primary cause of global warming.

    Measurements demonstrate that they are wrong.

    The atmospheric carbon dioxide level has now increased since 2001 by 23.2 ppmv (an amount equal to 25.9% of the increase that took place from 1800 to 2001) (1800, 281.6 ppmv; 2001, 371.13 ppmv; October, 2012, 394.32 ppmv).

    The average global temperature trend since 2001 is flat.

    That is the observation. No amount of spin can rationalize that the temperature increase to 2001 was caused by a CO2 increase of 89.5 ppmv but that 23.2 ppmv additional CO2 increase had no effect on the average global temperature trend after 2001.

    Without human caused global warming there can be no human caused climate change.

    Analyses that can be reached at the link (highlighted in red) given at http://www.switched.com/profile/2996642/ include an equation based on rational physics that, without considering any influence from CO2 whatsoever and using only one independent variable, has calculated average global temperatures since they have been accurately measured world wide (about 1895) with an accuracy of 88% (R2 = 0.88, correlation coefficient = 0.938). Including the influence of CO2 (a second independent variable) increased the accuracy to 88.5%.

  92. DavidG says:

    I want to correct some false information here in the comments section. 20 million were not killed for being anti-Communist. They were killed because they (Kulaks) were the small farmers and peasants’ class that was resisting collectivization. Lenin backed off when they pushed. Stalin did not he eradicated them. Cannibalism was common during those times. Stalin was a potent sociopath and believed in the dictum, “no man – no problem.” The half Jews in Germany (mischlinge) were not slaughtered despite what hofer says. Herman Goring’s 2nd in the Luftwaffe was Milch and he was part Jewish and Goering said ” I decide who is a Jew or not.” The number of half jews who earned medals in WWII is shocking. The number of Jews who earned medals in world war 1 was also unprecedented (8% of the population earned 25% of the medals.Talk about the desperation involved in wanting to be seen as real Germans, It is a sad tribute to the terrible power of group-think. Indeed, Hitler’s Platoon first sergent was a Jew and he signed the application for an Iron Cross first class.

  93. RobertInAz says:

    Thinking about it some more – what Jim Thompson is criticizing is a form of affirmative action not discrimination

    “…there are the usual handicap parking places (a good thing) and then countless spaces reserved for car pool vans followed by countless spaces reserved for alternative fuel vehicles.”

    And this is not even related to CO2 – it is related to energy policy. Car pools were encouraged in the 70s during the first energy shock. Irrespective of a persons beliefs in the CAGW debate, their parking is restricted based on the vehicle they choose to drive. In addition, I suspect that Mr. Thompson has not been personally called “… stupid, ignorant, lazy and unenlightened. ” because of his beliefs. Further, I suspect that he has not been discriminated against in employment.

    IMHO, it is easy to engage in hyperbole on a blog. I strongly believe that most of us who engage in this discourse, were we face-to-face, would be able to go out for drinks afterward regardless of where we stood in the debate. I believe that the vast majority of us are people of good will.

  94. DavidG says:

    When will you learn that Carbon is produced by warming- basic physics. It doesn’t cause warming.
    Basic myth.

  95. tgmccoy says:

    As one who is all three races, and who had a Native American Grandmother, who would not take a $20.00 bill because of Andew Jackson’s picture on it . Also I saw the
    specter of Pedophilia destroy a family and a young life. This attempt by warmists to
    marginalize criticism and questioning has to be answered.
    Thank you all and Anthony for standing against this Evil…

  96. DavidG says:

    My comment about the ‘new’ segregation article, is that it isn’t new. The tactics and goals have been used for years. It’s the old segregation with new victims. “Meet the new boss, he’s the same as the old boss.”–The Who

  97. James Hein says:

    If you are a victim of true racism then my condolences.

    The problem today is that if you live in a Leftist regime found in most Western nations today the word is used in a much broader sense. For example any criticism of Islam is often met with the word racism but followers of Islam are clearly from all races. A well-reasoned argument of poor behaviour by someone against an individual is often described as racism where the focus is on behaviour and actions not the race of the individual concerned. It has become the catch all phrase for many where no good counter argument can be made. A comparison against the broader use of the word is quite valid in context. If a PM of such a country can have the meaning of a word as clear as misogyny broadened then nothing is really safe. Believing that one word has a smaller meaning than it actually does in the greater world and then complaining that a comparison is invalid is understandable but not truly valid.

  98. Caleb says:

    RE: Dan in Nevada says:
    November 25, 2012 at 4:44 pm
    Caleb says:
    November 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    “… I don’t care a rodent’s posterior about the Jim Crow Era. It’s over…”

    “You should. It’s an era where bigotry not only thrived, but was given the full force of law. It’s one thing for people to have dissenting opinions, quite another to have a group able to enforce their ideas via incarceration, fines, even execution. Jim Crow is important to keep in mind for all those people who maintain “it couldn’t happen here”.”

    Sorry Dan, if I sounded like I was downplaying the inhumane actions of men against men that went into the Jim Crow Era. I actually hitchhiked through South Carolina and Georgia back in the late 1960′s, before there was an interstate 95 and before the amazing economic boom hit that area, when sharecroppers still plowed with mules. So I saw with my own eyes some of that old system, even as it was fading. (However the funny thing was that, even though I was warned about southern whites, and blacks, and especially southern cops, all I met were really nice whites, and blacks, and even cops.) The first hand view I got of the south was not at all like Hollywood’s “Easy Rider,” either in the 1960′s, or when I lived there in the 1980′s.

    As interesting as that history is, I think we have a more pressing issue, called the present. We can learn from the past, but it is dead and we cannot change it. The present, on the other hand, can be changed, and we had damn well better make an effort to change it, with these Alarmist fools spouting falsehood and calling it “saving the planet.”

    When I said I didn’t care about the Jim Crow Era, what I was trying to say is that this thread’s subject was being hijacked from the present to the past, diverting us from basically inhumane behavior which is glaring us in the face.

    Some people learn from history, and apply the lessons to the present. Unfortunately others use history as an excuse to avoid the urgent and unpleasant present, and to serenely look at things that are safely removed into a misty distance. They are like a rich lady enjoying a good cry, weeping while eating bonbons and watching a PBS show about the starving in Africa. They feel; oh how they feel; but they don’t lift a finger.

  99. Bart says:

    Dan Pangburn says:
    November 25, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    “That is the observation. No amount of spin can rationalize that the temperature increase to 2001 was caused by a CO2 increase of 89.5 ppmv but that 23.2 ppmv additional CO2 increase had no effect on the average global temperature trend after 2001.”

    Thank you for that tidy summation, well and pithily stated. By your leave, I will be using it in future discussions with the faithful.

  100. davidmhoffer says:

    RE:

    DavidG says:
    November 25, 2012 at 6:10 pm
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This is a disgusting rewrite of history that serves no purpose. It should be stricken from the thread.

  101. Legatus says:

    I fail to see how some people can say “this is not appropriate because treatment of denialists is not as bad as racism was”. Simply put, you have to start somewhere. Jim crow did not spring up overnight, it grew from a start. Making people park in the back of the garage is that start. If you do not nip it in the bud, it will grow, do you not learn from history?

    And look at the people who are being denigrated, censored, fired, blackballed (sure sounds like the old racism to me), people who believe in science, also known as reason. The other side, therefor, must be unreason, which leads to the mob. In history, how has that worked out? You don’t have to fool all of the people all of the time, you only have to fool enough to get into power, then it doesn’t matter what the rest believe. If you have right on your side, and I have The Mob, I win!

    The important part of this article is it has started.
    This won’t end well…

  102. Gail Combs says:

    DavidG says:
    November 25, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Davidmhofer- you are an ignorant jerk….
    ___________________________
    To help set the record straight

    Jewish Genealogy
    …During the Holocaust, the Nazis killed people, burned synagogues and wiped out towns, but they did not destroy records. Quite the contrary, they carefully preserved synagogue records of births, deaths and marriages back to the 1840s… so they could identify Jews for extermination. See this puzzling stamp, dated November 30, 1940, on my great-grandfather’s 1878 Vienna Jewish birth record: Annahme des Zusatznamens Israel-Sara angezeigt (assume of the other names that Jew-Jewess is indicated). What is the meaning of this cryptic message? It is a reminder to those inspecting the records that they should assume everyone mentioned on the page is Jewish — not just the parents and children, but also the rabbi, mohel, midwife, witnesses, and so forth. Many of these European records, diligently preserved by the Nazis, are indexed by JewishGen or are available from the Family History Library of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons). Both of these resources are discussed below….

    Seems Davidmhofer was correct.

  103. Gail Combs says:

    Theo Goodwin says:
    November 25, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    …. Keep in mind that today if you own a small business that employs more than fifty “full time equivalents” then you are required by law to pay for their contraceptives and all the consequences of their misuse of their contraceptives.
    _________________________________
    Ain’t that new law great? It means many small businesses will stay small to avoid the hassle and therefore will never pose a threat to the “big Boys” in the future. And if one of the “Big Boys” wants the small guys business or patents it becomes very easy to wipe them out.

  104. u.k.(us) says:

    Legatus says:
    November 25, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    “The important part of this article is it has started.
    This won’t end well…”
    ===============
    Are you referring to this thread or the world in general ?
    Not that I discount your theory, but is there any chance it wouldn’t “won’t end well”,
    cus it gives me reason to get out of bed in the morning.

  105. Caleb says:

    If we must ignore the ugliness of what Skeptics endure from foul-mouthed Alarmists in the present, and delve into the safely-finished past, I don’t see why we need to focus on Jim Crow, when we could look at the example of Churchill, and his warnings about H—-. (Name abbreviated to avoid automatic spam-binning.)

    Churchill’s warnings were politically incorrect, for they assured he was deemed a “war monger” by politically powerful pacifists, who had been so horrified by the carnage of World War One they couldn’t conceive a second war was even remotely possible.

    With 20-20 hindsight we can now see Churchill’s observations were amazingly astute, but at the time many deemed him laughable. He was deemed old-fashioned, a throwback, a relic of a bygone era, and was called washed-up, finished, and such an embarrassment to his own party that there is evidence his own party sought to keep him from being reelected as a member of Parliament. But he wouldn’t shut up.

    At one point in his writings, Churchill hints at something which may have contributed to his uncanny understanding of H—–.

    In the 1930′s he was touring Germany, and it just so happened he was staying at a hotel where H—– was also staying. As both men knew of each other, both were curious, and a meeting very nearly took place. H—– sent an aid to Churchill’s room, to ask some questions. However Churchill’s answers ended the chance a meeting might take place. When Churchill wondered, afterwards, what he said which might have spoiled the chance of meeting H—–, the only thing he could recall saying, that might have been offensive, was as follows:

    He told the aid he was curious why H—– was so down on the Jews.

    Churchill could never know if that was the real reason the meeting never occurred, but the fact he contemplated it was the reason for rejection shows Churchill already knew that there were some subjects H—– refused to be questioned about, (despite the fact Churchill would have to ask such questions, after reading H—–’s autobiography.)

    In the same manner, after reading Alarmist’s writings, there are certain questions we simply have to ask. When they refuse to answer, or even to meet with us, and instead merely deride us, perhaps we should be as wise as Churchill.

    Perhaps the writing’s already on the wall.

  106. Power Grab says:

    My first impression was not that being a “person of color” in the days of Jim Crow was a problem comparable with being a climate skeptic these days, but that the FEELING of being treated as inferior (or worse) for something you cannot deny (or could, but will not deny) had some similarity. I was surprised that so many found fault with the simple voicing of the complaint, especially since the complaint was actually an admission of an “aha” moment, similar to walking a mile in another’s shoes.

    As a Baby Boomer, I spent my junior high and high school years ever aware of the admonition to “do your own thing”. It seemed that you were only worthy of being looked up to if you wore some badge of individuality or creativity on your sleeve, so to speak. Contrarily, if you were conventional enough to be in ROTC or that sort of thing, people tended to snicker at you behind your back.

    The pendulum has certainly swung back the other way, hasn’t it? These days, there is so much pressure to CONFORM to the CAGW meme, in thought as well as deed, that if you have the unmitigated gall to voice a contrary opinion, or even wonder aloud whatever happened to the Medieval Warm Period, say, in certain circles, then you experience something somewhat akin to what happens to chum when thrown to the sharks. Your parentage is questioned. Your motivation is questioned or maligned. Your opportunities might well be limited in the future. Your integrity is smeared. Your professional opinions are evermore denigrated. You might even be fired.

    The lack of common sense and lack of good will that keeps cropping up these days keeps me wondering if this is what it was like to live the days of the Salem witch trials, in 1692-1693, in the depths of the Little Ice Age. They say that ergot caused people to have hallucinations. (On another site today, there is a link to this article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/u-k-winter-wheat-shows-worst-fungus-symptoms-ever-recorded-1-.html about how bad the fungal diseases are in the current crop of UK grain.)

    These days, everyone seems to be in the mood to “shoot first and ask questions later.” And I mean that literally. But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: It seems to me that the PTB are actually promoting a “Let’s you and him fight” situation.

  107. Theo Goodwin says:

    Power Grab writes:

    “Your parentage is questioned. Your motivation is questioned or maligned. Your opportunities might well be limited in the future. Your integrity is smeared. Your professional opinions are evermore denigrated. You might even be fired.”

    Things are worse than that. At the vast majority of institutions of higher education, professing a belief in AGW is pretty much necessary, though not yet a litmus test. If you have been hired but not tenured, you will be fired for expressing doubt in AGW. If you are tenured and express doubt in AGW you will be abused. Reminds me of the Thirties in Germany when Jews were being pushed out of their jobs, forbidden admission to university, and similar things prior to the beatings. The wise person watches what he says or writes about AGW.

  108. TomE says:

    Anthony: I am a “comment” addict in that I read and comment in the WSJ quite often. I find that I often learn much more from the comments on an article than from the article. That certainly has been the case in this comment section. There has been a wide variety of comments which present many different thoughts, arguments for and against. A thinking mans meat. Thanks for posting the original article.

  109. Brian says:

    Stupid article is stupid!

    And that article is stupid.

  110. I wish Americans would get off their racial guilt trip. Enough is enough already.

    Some of my ancestors were slaves, white slaves in Russia. Nobody gives a damn? All right, then I don’t give a damn about your precious racial sensitivities. And never forget, who actually sold those African slaves in the first place (and have been trading them for centuries on their West African Islamic bazaars before any pale-skinned buyers arrived)? Black African slave masters.

    So, maybe skin color really doesn’t matter? Maybe slavery and persecution do? Then how the environmentalist persecution is better than the racial segregation?

  111. Rupert Hanna says:

    We all would do well to be reminded that the hate, ostracisation and vilification has not comes to its end yet. Where this type of unbridled behaviour can lead to should concern everyone.
    Lil Fella of Oz

  112. Mike Haseler says:

    All I would have to do is abandon all the science I was ever taught

    That is exactly how I feel. I don’t want to be a sceptic. I really don’t like motorcars nor petrol heads. I’d prefer if everyone walked and cycled more.

    But climate alarmism is completely anti-science and it would be dishonest to promote climate alarmism.

    … I’ve completely gone off green things when I watch the moronic idiotic vitriolic nasty vindictive insane inane of the green nutters (some even daring to call themselves “scientists”). It doesn’t make me proud to ride a bike knowing that there are people whose behaviour is no better than racists promoting bike use.

  113. Graphite says:

    Really? Being a sceptic gives Jim Thompson an insight into how it was to be black in the US south of the 1940s? Not within a bull’s roar, pal. Not even in the same time zone.

    The posting of Thompson’s article is a faux pas of the same magnitude as the Heartland Unabomber billboard. With this over-the-top nonsense, the warmists have been handed a loaded gun.

    When you are fighting a battle and you have the high ground, don’t give it up. Go down to the other guy’s level and you’ve chucked away your main advantage.

  114. Gene Selkov says:

    Stephen Brown wrote:

    “I dread the coming of the Carbon Inquisition. I am doomed.”

    You’re not doomed. Just shoot the first carbon inquisitor you see. I’ll do the same.

  115. beng says:

    ***
    davidmhoffer says:
    November 25, 2012 at 10:56 am

    I often see this statement made, and it is an exception to the rule. It did not work for:

    6 million Jews murdered in Nazi concentration camps
    2 million Roma and others murdered in the same camps
    8 million Ukrainians starved to death for rising up against the USSR
    20 million Russians and eastern Europeans sent to their death in the Gulags for being against Communism.
    2 million Cambodians for being from urban centres liquidated by the Khmer Rouge
    1 million Kurds and Marsh Arabs murdered by Sadam Hussein for being Kurds and Marsh Arabs
    1 million Tsutsis hacked to death with machetes for not being Hutus

    ****

    I think Chairman Mao in China outdid them all w/his Red Guard & cultural revolution….

  116. Ian W says:

    davidmhoffer says:
    November 25, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Ian W;
    Jews looked just like everyone else and if they acted like everyone else and supported the political activities of the majority, they could and did avoid concentration camps and the holocaust.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This is a blatant lie and an egregious anti-Semitic statement. If by intent then it is one of the most racist remarks ever made in this forum. If by ignorance, then allow me to set the record straight:

    I am sorry if I have upset you it was not anti-semitic and it was not by intent. Perhaps I am misinformed but read:
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/29937
    I would be interested if you can correct that article and many similar.

  117. davidmhoffer says:

    Ian W;
    You’re not going to understand holocaust history from a single article on what George Soros did or did not do while he was a teenager in WWII, or the history of Soros since then. Your assertion amounts to accusing Jews of having brought the holocaust upon themselves through their “behaviour”. Such an assertion has no basis in fact, it is repugnant and repulsive to say such a thing. Yet is is a common enough assertion that it has taken on a life of its own, propagated by those who cling to their hatred without fact or reason to back them up, and for purposes of serving their own agenda.

    If you think this sounds familiar, it is. Repeated assertions without basis in fact to serve an agenda are the hallmarks of the warmist movement.

    It is not me you should be apologizing to for your remarks. It is the millions of dead that you have dishonored by suggesting that they brought it upon themselves.

  118. Legatus says:

    u.k.(us) says:
    Legatus says:
    “The important part of this article is it has started.
    This won’t end well…”
    ===============
    Are you referring to this thread or the world in general ?
    Not that I discount your theory, but is there any chance it wouldn’t “won’t end well”,
    cus it gives me reason to get out of bed in the morning.
    ================================
    Neither, I am referring to the start of the pogram against the “sceptics”, usually called “denialists”. This sort of thing has happend many times in the past, and it never ended well. If you want a reason to get out of bed in the morning, I suggest it be that you intend to make it end well. You can only do that by making sure it ends now, before it gets too far advanced.

  119. Legatus says:

    Graphite says:
    Really? Being a skeptic gives Jim Thompson an insight into how it was to be black in the US south of the 1940s? Not within a bull’s roar, pal. Not even in the same time zone.
    ===============================
    And how did that treatment start, did it suddenly spring into existence full bloomed, or did it gradually gain steam? Were the Jews always hated in Germany, or did it start somewhere? Do things have a beginning? What would a beginning of a new hating look like? What does history say?

    History says it starts small, with minor name calling (“denialists”), which escalates (“pedophiles”), followed by calls to enforce it by law, followed by the first such enforcements, such as the first law saying you must sit in the back of the bus, or the one pointed out here, where you must park in the back of the garage.

    Stop it now, or suffer it again.

  120. DavidG says:

    hofer, you show your ignorance. I don’t rewrite history, but know enough to do it if I wish to. It’;s just that your ignorance has left you in the dark. I can prove every word I said, and you can’t.

    REPLY: Here is a suggestion; if you want to complain about someone else’s ignorance, at least learn to spell and capitalize their name correctly. – Anthony

  121. Legatus says:

    Don Worley says:
    I don’t think the persecution angle serves anyone well. If you are confident in your views, there is no reason to feel persecuted. Feel pity for the ignorant perpetrators.
    ==========================================
    Your feelings are irrelevant. If you are actually being persecuted, if actual things are happening to you, if you are forced to sit in the back of the bus, or, as now, park in the back of the garage, what does it matter what your feelings are? This is what is happening, this is what is.

    And remember that the warmists have already compared you to the worst sort of criminal, even called for your death. Do you suppose you will still say it is merely enough to be “ confident in your views” when you are fired, in prison or worse?

  122. DavidG says:

    Anthony, I know how to spell and I did leave the caps out on purpose. Just the same way he deleted my comment and went on to accuse me of rewriting history, which is a foul accusation.. I don’t criticize people for mistakes made in haste. Your comment is misguided. My words are about content not grammar.
    This isn’t school and i don’t jump on you or anyone when you or others do that, even David M. Hofer!

    REPLY: Hoffer, two “f’s”. Feel free to be as upset as you wish – Anthony

  123. DavidG says:

    I think there needs to be some common sense in charge here. You started this thread with your attempt to stir up the hornets’ nest of segregation, and I consider that is valid, if not entirely accurate, unlike many others.
    I’m not denigrating any race or group nor minimizing anyone’s suffering. I objected to the post that said the Jews could have escaped the Holocaust by blending in better! What nonsense. But this is today and I don’t demand apologies to dead people

  124. DavidG says:

    As to this David M. Hofer, who has the nerve to challenge free speech and demand the striking of my factual remarks. What a disgraceful approach and what hypocrisy. If you want to challenge my words, show them in your post unedited so others can judge your competence or incompetence in talking about history. Your approach is as cowardly as those you accuse of such behavior.

    [That's enough. Move on. — mod.]

  125. davidmhoffer says:

    DavidG says:
    November 26, 2012 at 11:08 am
    hofer, you show your ignorance
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    This is not the forum to have a drawn out debate of the matter. I’ve stated for the record my opinion of what you said, and I stand by it.

  126. John Whitman says:

    I do not want the mods recommending to Anthony to shut this thread down, so I request some of the more intensively pronounced antagonists to chill slightly. OK?

    I do not want it shut down because I think the ideas discussed on this thread are contributing to an important understanding of the roots of intolerance; even of intolerance of discussing the very sensitive topics introduced by Jim Thompson’s article.

    John

  127. DavidG says:

    I’ve had my say also, without any help from the moderator, thank you.

  128. Kaboom says:

    In all forms of faith-based politics, repenting will get you back into the good graces of those powers which are, with a suspicious eye of the inquisition remaining on your for the rest of your mortal existence, of course.

  129. John A Eyon says:

    as someone neither white – nor black – i sympathize with the article – more than other analogues – such as religious persecution or demogoguery – the treatment of skeptics – such as myself – ring with similarities as expressed in this article

    yes – it’ll outrage the “other side” – and even outrage blacks who consider their experience singular – but being bold & shocking worked for the blacks in their movement for equality – it’s time has come for AGW Skeptical Science

  130. Graphite says:

    Legatus says:
    November 26, 2012 at 10:35 am
    And how did that treatment start, did it suddenly spring into existence full bloomed, or did it gradually gain steam?
    *******************************************
    If you’re talking about the Jim Crow times, I’d say it was segment of the timeline from full-on slavery, through the civil war and emancipation then on into the twentieth century and from there extending into the present day.

    The worst segment, by far, was the full-on slavery time . . . the best segment (in racial equality terms) was the election of Barack Obama to the presidency. Other milestones would be the integration of the armed forces, the integration of baseball, the freedom marches, any number of spots.

    Even a cursory glance will tell you that the situation has been on the improve for the entire time. So, to answer your question, I’d say it’s been losing steam.

    But, for all that, being black in the south of the 1940s, the time indicated by the illustration accompanying the article, was a far worse situation for those living it than being sceptical of AGW is for those of us in that situation today.

    The comparison is so far-fetched as to be ludicrous. Sceptics houses aren’t being burned down, their children aren’t being sent to separate, poorly funded schools, nobody’s been lynched.

    This strikes me as a fairly even battle, with the warmists taking more and more hits every month, every week, every day. They aren’t in full retreat yet but they’re definitely knocked about and nowhere near as triumphant as they were pre-Copenhagen.

    If you want to finish them off, stick to the science. That’s where this war will be won. To go sidetracking into name-calling contests is demeaning to the sceptics’ side.

    One worthwhile thing this thread has done, though . . . it’s flushed out a few ranters and bee-in-the-bonnetters. In that, it’s a reminder that not all the people who can’t keep things in perspective are on the other side.

  131. Graphite says:
    November 26, 2012 at 3:01 pm
    This strikes me as a fairly even battle…
    Unbelievable. Talk about this thread flushing out a few flaming fools.

  132. Gail Combs says:

    Power Grab says:
    November 25, 2012 at 9:24 pm
    …It seems to me that the PTB are actually promoting a “Let’s you and him fight” situation.
    _________________________________________
    That is certainly the case. If the ‘Left’ and the ‘Right’ are at eachother’s throat they do not notice the PTB walking away with the clothes off their bags.

    Just look at the UK, there are 27,000 extra deaths in the UK each winter and 70% of households have trouble with heating bills. Yet the government and population keep marching towards the cliff. It must be the fungus in the wheat.

  133. Graphite says:

    Alexander Feht says:
    November 26, 2012 at 7:23 pm
    Unbelievable. Talk about this thread flushing out a few flaming fools.

    **************************

    I’ll stick by my analysis. Considering how the fight was going until five or six years ago, the tide of battle has been turning the sceptics’ way ever since Copenhagen. The warmists are on the retreat on every front and getting more and more desperate all the time.

    Exactly what is foolish about that? Or is name calling the best form of argument you can mount?

  134. Graphite says:

    As the original post on this thread is about the Jim Crow era of America’s south, another piece of history of that era may be pertinent.

    When Branch Rickey broke baseball’s colour bar, he knew he had to have the right man to pull it off. He didn’t go looking for the best black ball player . . . he went looking for a good black ball player who could take the heat. Jackie Robinson was that man . . . chosen because he was best able to handle the hatred and vituperation that would erupt with his entry into the major leagues. Rickey knew that for desegregation to succeed, the standard bearer had to turn the other cheek and keep his emotions in check. Any retaliation and the whole project would be in jeopardy and not only would Robinson suffer but also all the black players in line to follow him.

    Robinson succeeded brilliantly. He kept his head down, let his skills do the talking and within a few years baseball was integrated.

    That’s the way to success.

    Not this ridiculous Jim Thompson way . . . getting called nasty names a few times by cranky warmists and responding with name-calling of his own, trumped by the most inflated piece of victimhood it’s hard to imagine.

    How about a sense of proportion and how about a sense of simply, as Jackie Robinson showed, doing the right thing.

  135. Bruce Cobb says:

    Graphite says:
    If you want to finish them off, stick to the science. This is a street fight, and skeptics are both outnumbered and out-gunned. That means fighting dirty, and with whatever weapons are at hand. Yes, we do have actual science and truth on our side, but with the MSM continually trumpeting pseudoscience, and the constant refrain that our weather keeps getting worse, people tend to believe it instead of checking things for themselves. They also have government machinery and money-hungry “science” organizations on their side. Make no mistake, this fight is both political and scientific, and needs to be fought on both fronts.

  136. Graphite says:
    November 27, 2012 at 1:02 am
    Exactly what is foolish about that?

    Everything.

    Compare the amount of financing, subsidies, and profits. Look at the balance of power. Compare the representation in societies, media, schools, colleges, academic institutions. Facts don’t matter, “skeptics” are practically invisible, a laughing stock, scapegoats, fringe. Green Fascism is an ideology, it’s politics, it’s the new religion, it’s all over education, it’s all over social institutions, it’s in every workplace and in your face in every public place, CEOs of big corporations gave up all resistance and kiss its behind. Say something against it, and you are fired, your neighbors stop talking to you, they vandalize your lawn and your car, your former friends stop calling you, your children report on your heresy to their teachers. Attempt to tell the truth, and you are a pariah, an outcast, a sociopath, a mental case, ein Untermensch. Welcome to the real world!

    You’ve said something about a “fairly even battle”?
    And you pompously call that raspberry an “analysis”?

  137. Graphite says:

    Alexander Feht says:
    November 27, 2012 at 5:15 am
    . . . Say something against it, and you are fired, your neighbors stop talking to you, they vandalize your lawn and your car, your former friends stop calling you, your children report on your heresy to their teachers. Attempt to tell the truth, and you are a pariah, an outcast, a sociopath, a mental case, ein Untermensch. Welcome to the real world!

    *************************

    The real world? Really? And I’m a flaming fool?

    If your former friends stop calling you, pal, my guess is that there’s a reason other than your opposition to AGW.

  138. Graphite says:

    Bruce Cobb says:
    November 27, 2012 at 4:36 am
    This is a street fight, and skeptics are both outnumbered and out-gunned. That means fighting dirty . . .

    ************************

    Whoa! Stop right there. It means nothing of the sort.

  139. Graphite,

    If you spend most of your time and energy trying to conform to your social surroundings (as follows from your toothless, blindfolded, and inane view of the AGW situation), naturally, you wouldn’t have a clue about dangers faced by the non-conformists. Fortunately, a lot of factual information about the real-world persecution of skeptics has been published on this very site. It’s extremely ugly, and there’s nothing “fair” about it.

    Let me guess. You are a taxpayer-funded “educator,” aren’t you?

  140. P.S. As to my friends, Graphite, none of them is a green activist. It is true, however, that I refuse to conform to some other morally unacceptable views, not necessarily AGW-related, and that may have prevented me from being friends with some people. So what? Life is short, the number of scoundrels is legion.

  141. ozspeaksup says:

    r williams has a sinecure govt broadcast job, he controls it seems most of the input re anything he can label science??? absed and so has enormous control at aunty abc.
    for ome 30 years this mans been growing power, and he chooses very carefully the guests and will shut down anyone expressing any view he doesnt like,
    ie anyone expressing ANY doubt re CC, I have been listening when interviews got cut off within seconds of opposing his views got by him.
    as for lewandowsky.well its such a shame the WUWT exposure of his crappy survey and shambolic Questionnaire cant be outed.
    however theres no way to even get posts like that ONto the comment section, they get removed..
    williams is an out of control true believer and is following and promoting the present imbecilic governments views as they want..
    hes a science reporter, thats it..but the general audience doent question the mans background or agenda and its aimed at the so called better educated crowd.
    the smug we know best mindset is enforced and encouraged by him.
    reckon hes lost a LOT of long term listeners.
    until he got so twisted it used to be a halfway decent show,.

  142. Ian W says:

    davidmhoffer says:
    November 26, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Just to put the record straight if anyone is still reading this.
    My Godfather was a Dutch Jew a dentist from den Haag. My father had stayed with his family, wife and three sons in the late 1930′s. I still have photographs of the three boys on my fathers motorcycle and on their bikes tall blond and happy. My Godfather’s wife and sons were all captured by the Germans and he never saw them again. My Godfather was in hiding and even after the war would not reveal where he successfully hid as he was concerned that he may have to hide again. I therefore, would not try to minimize the horror of what occurred I am personally aware of it: as much as someone born just after the war can be.
    The point I was trying to make (albeit clumsily) was that an African is totally unable to attempt hide his race by carrying false papers.

    Interesting how quickly I was ‘othered’ – shows how easily such things can be achieved.

  143. Theo Goodwin says:

    At the vast majority of institutions of higher education, professing a belief in AGW is pretty much necessary, though not yet a litmus test. If you have been hired but not tenured, you will be fired for expressing doubt in AGW. If you are tenured and express doubt in AGW you will be abused. Reminds me of the Thirties in Germany when Jews were being pushed out of their jobs, forbidden admission to university, and similar things prior to the beatings. The wise person watches what he says or writes about AGW

    That was really extreme. Ditto Jim Crow. A closer parallel, in terms of the social dynamics, would be the McCarthyite period in the 1950s.

  144. Graphite says:

    Alexander Feht says:
    November 27, 2012 at 4:01 pm
    Graphite,

    Let me guess. You are a taxpayer-funded “educator,” aren’t you?

    *************************************

    And with that comment, you are a “labeller” . . . the sort who wants everyone classified by occupation, or race, or income level, or religion, or political leanings — or maybe all five and a few more.

    It’s the sort of mindset that eventually leads to someone sitting in front of a committee and being asked a question that starts, “Are you now or have you ever been a member of . . .”

    What does it matter to you or anyone else what my occupation is? If you have to know, I’ve made my living over the past two to three decades in horse racing and publishing, both fields of endeavour that are, in competitive terms, red in tooth and claw.

    My next door neighbour is a school teacher, though. He’s in the state sector. And he’s a good bloke, too. I’ve had many a friendly conversation with him. Perhaps I’ve been tainted.

  145. davidmhoffer says:

    Ian W
    The point I was trying to make (albeit clumsily) was that an African is totally unable to attempt hide his race by carrying false papers.
    Interesting how quickly I was ‘othered’ – shows how easily such things can be achieved.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The reaction you got was to what you wrote, not what you meant. I cannot read your mind.

  146. Graphite says:
    November 28, 2012 at 2:39 pm
    It’s the sort of mindset that eventually leads to someone sitting in front of a committee and being asked a question that starts, “Are you now or have you ever been a member of . . .”

    I stood before such committees back in the Soviet Union. You haven’t. And I smell a reek of this very mindset coming from you. I imagine, what kind of trash you publish.

  147. Graphite says:

    Alexander Feht says:
    November 28, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    I stood before such committees back in the Soviet Union. You haven’t. And I smell a reek of this very mindset coming from you. I imagine, what kind of trash you publish.

    ****************************

    And now you think, because the warmists use these sorts of dirty tactics, that the sceptics should also use them? Should fight fire with fire?

    I would have thought that anyone who had come up against low, underhand, cheating behaviour would have been dead-set against its use . . . and especially against its use by their own side.

    And try not to jump to conclusions about how I make my living. It has nothing to do with the opinions I hold, it has nothing to do with this debate and it has nothing to do with you.

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