I guess we must be having an effect

This ad has been running on some WUWT stories, urging people to save the EPA from the “deniers” that are apparently “running the conversation”. Heh.

When you see the ad, clicking on it allows you to use a form to send a message, along with adding your own. I found it humorous for this line behind the ad:

For too long, big power companies have been able to dump unlimited amounts of industrial carbon pollution into our air.

That could just as easily say:

For too long, [humans and animals] have been able to[breathe] unlimited amounts of [natural] carbon [dioxide] into our air.

You can add your own message too via the League of Conservation Voters website, should you wish.

But, be careful of the fine print:

By taking this action, you are affirming your membership in LCV and will receive regular LCV communications and are entitled to vote for a member of LCV’s Board of Directors. To protect online privacy, we have implemented the following policy.

About these ads

83 thoughts on “I guess we must be having an effect

  1. The EPA must be getting desperate… they lost a Supreme Court ruling earlier this week so WUWT must be rattling their cage. They’re beginning to sound like Mike Mann who has been pummeled by responses to his WSJ article. Laugh, it drives them crazy!

  2. I clicked on the link some time ago, and was tempted to change the “message” appropriately, wherein I was going to admonish the EPA to attack the misuse of the greatest greenhouse gas of them all, H2O. On second thought, I figured they’d just edit my comment out, change it, and/or use my message as a “vote” in their favor if they didn’t just dismiss me as a whack-denier.

    In any case, I disagree with the premise that they can’t let ‘deniers run the conversation’. All that’s ever been asked is equal time.

  3. If all of the WUWT readers become “members” of LCV, then we could vote in a whole new set of Directors to the Board! :)

    LCV should be very careful about who they try to “influence”.

    Mahahahaha… /nosarc

  4. Clicking on it also costs them a bit of money. I would suggest clicking on it often, but then do nothing further. They could be paying anywhere from a penny to fifty cents per click.

  5. For far too long the people of the U.S. have been subjected to politically driven junk science regulations of the EPA and been forced to pay massive costs in direct fees, higher costs for goods and services and negative impacts on our economy based on nothing but ideological beliefs of environmental special interest groups, the media establishment and government agencies feeding off tax payer dollars. Unless these ridiculous and out of control practices are severely curtailed the U.S. will simply decline into a second or third rate economic power.

  6. I changed the message to this, and sent it:

    I DO NOT support the EPA. They are an anti-free market, dictatorial, unelected group of busybody zealots who have gone far beyond their mandate.

    CARBON DIOXIDE IS GOOD. MORE IS BETTER! CO2 is NOT a pollutant! The demonization of harmless, beneficial CO2 is being promoted to make “carbon” appear evil. WE ARE MADE OF CARBON! It is the EPA that is EVIL.

    The EPA must be put out of existence. It must be DEFUNDED. America is a cleaner country than just about any other. Pollution has been all but completely eliminated. The EPA is run by self-serving cranks, who intend to raise the cost of energy on already hard-bitten Americans. Don’t let them do it! Cheap energy is GOOD for America!

    DEFUND THE EPA!!

    With enough anti-EPA messages, they may think twice about asking for the public’s input after this.

  7. What I want to know is: who’s funding this? I insist on total transparency on the donors behind the “League of Conservation Voters”. I’m sure the Washington Post and New York Times will jump right on that.

  8. This is what I posted on the EPA/League of Conservation Voters page:

    NO, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE EPA. IT’S HEADED BY A BUREAUCRAT, STAFFED BY CHICKEN LITTLES AND THE EPA SHOULD BE DEFUNDED!!! ACCORDING TO SATELLITE DATA THERE HAS BEEN NO RISE IN TEMPERATURE DURING THE PAST DECADE
    DESPITE THE CONTINUED RISE IN CO2 SO THAT THEORY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED!!!!

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

    YOU CAN FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME BUT NEVER ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME!

    Yeah, I know, I’ve shouted at them…. because I’m really angry!!!!!

  9. My note to them:

    I support clean air and a SANE energy economy!

    Our nation must have a REALISTIC energy policy– BUT these new clean air standards would FORCE innovation into NON-PRODUCTIVE UNSESTANABLE technologies that DESTROY more jobs then they can create.

    Start drilling for oil here in the U.S. The economic boom that will result will fund tomorrows innovation for a better world.

  10. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. PR-wise we are massively outgunned in terms of resources and media support, which in out case case translates to media hostility. It’s thanks to the Internet and the blogosphere that we’ve been able to disrupt the one-way propaganda, but this advantage won’t last forever, as big piles of money can eventually turn the tables. As things are, we are split into hundreds of indicidual researchers and blogs, each with his own message, a cacophony that’s not the most efficient. No time for lollygagging, kids.

    At the very least, what we can do with our pocket change is to utilize our blogs and harness the “idle capacity” talent we already have. We have the brains. We have the scientists, writers, publicists and artists. And we have a base of sstirring support from a rapidly growing mass of fidgety people who know that they are being had, who are beginning to understand what has happened and how, and who are finally impatient for alternatives.
    What is to be done?…to steal from Chernyshevsky’s classic question. I’d say keep on doing what we;ve been doing, but more of it. We don’t need stiff leadership hierarchies and secretive strategies. While the Warmies plot and scheme, hang on to sinecures and battle over positions; hide, lie and steal, and get caught with their pants around their ankles to the public’s amusement, we own the gold bond of integrity and unlike our dishonourable opposition, we can work openly and transparently…and more importantly, fluidly and speedily… to hammer-out honest in-you-face information campaigns. Not rocket science, this. And when we move our butts a even a little, as even this “little blog that grew” shows, the impact will be significant. B-b-b-baby, baby, they ain’t nothin’ yet!

  11. For too long, big power companies have been able to dump unlimited amounts of plant and tree food into our air.

  12. There’s still plenty of money pushing the bubble. Buy high, sell low, they Mamas must’ve taught ‘em so.
    ==========

  13. And they’re worried about a little CO2 ?

    When that big asteroid or meteor hits….
    earth will experience:

    massive global inferno
    howling winds
    fantastic increase in atmospheric H2O and CO2 levels
    mass extinctions
    “nuclear” winter
    climate change
    ice age
    and other stuff…

    Our money is better spent on impact assessment and intervention.

    And they’re worried about a little CO2 ?
    HEY EPA, get some glasses…
    and a telescope.

  14. Slide2112 says:
    March 22, 2012 at 11:51 am


    Start drilling for oil here in the U.S. The economic boom that will result will fund tomorrows innovation for a better world.

    That’s true–we’d have “North Dakotas” everywhere, and they have the lowest unemployment rate of any state in the union! And as a side-benefit, they’re pumping amazing quantities of oil out of the Bakken.

    Of course, this is completely anathema by Chu, Obama, and Reid who are forcing an energy paradigm on the US that just might bankrupt us. If it doesn’t, it won’t be from lack of trying.

  15. To all WUWT commenters who wish to send a message to the EPA/LCV.
    We have a similar campaign going on here in Canada now,started by the Suzuki Foundation. Like the EPA,they are screaming because our Senate has the cojhonnes to start investigating their tax-exempt charity status after it was revealed they are taking foreign monies to lobby against the Canadian economy.
    Long story short,same scam. You agree to become a member of the Foundation,etc,etc. What most of us Canucks have been doing is copy and pasting the form letter to our email,THEN editing it and sending it off to our Senators,MP’s and Prime Minister. Completely by-passes the eco-cultists web servers etc. And you are guarenteed it gets to the people intended,not some hyperspace file 13. So far it is having are GREAT effect on their campaign,not that they like it! Heh.

  16. Peter Kovachev says:
    March 22, 2012 at 11:55 am

    What is to be done?…to steal from Chernyshevsky’s classic question. I’d say keep on doing what we;ve been doing, but more of it.

    Peter is right. I’d like to re-issue the challenge I made about a week ago asking eveybody to commit to telling at least one new person a week about WUWT. I did it today, which was neither difficult nor painful.

    We’ve got to spread the word or we’ll not be successful in thwarting the insanity.

  17. I put in my two cents. Kind of dumb for the EPA to even ask IMHO, but hey they asked for my opinion, they got it.

  18. Here’s what I wrote:

    I DO NOT support the EPA’s historic standards limiting industrial carbon pollution from power plants. Carbon dioxide is not a poison–it’s the gas of life.

    Our nation must continue to burn fossil fules in a clean manner, and within a decade cold fusion will be the new energy economy. But face it, any time you impose new clean air standards on our people, it kills jobs and lowers the GDP. Look to Spain for a good example.

    I support clean air and a clean energy economy, but not the EPA! You guys are a brutal lawless run-amuck bunch that should be defunded.

  19. http://www.rdmag.com/News/2012/03/General-Science-Physics-Second-neutrino-team-refutes-faster-than-light-find/

    I wonder if there will be a massive protest against the campaign of deceit by those awful trans-luminal deniers. Funny how well Real Science can work when there’s not a gazillion bucks waiting to be redistributed.

    Quoting from the article:

    “Doubts about the OPERA [neutrino measurement] results were heightened last month when it was announced that researchers had found a flaw in the technical setup that could have distorted the experiment’s figures.”

    Sounds like the surface station survey to me….

  20. Is it just me (in the UK) or does the title of the ogranisation sound odd?

    “League of Conservation Voters “

    Are they hoping that this will attract people who look at it quickly and think it is “Conservative” – only 2 letters different?
    Talking about how to “run the conversation” seems to me to be deliberately adding to the confusion.
    Cup and balls trick, anyone?

    http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-perform-the-cup-and-balls-trick

  21. For a start, I wish they would stop calling us sceptics ‘deniers’. It’s misleading and offensive.

    There’s an important distinction to be drawn between denying there is any warming at all, and questioning the possible causes of what little warming there has been.

  22. The League of Conservation Voters provides no information about funding sources or uses. They do indicate political contributions to “environmentally responsible” candidates, or something. Their website includes a page for making contributions to Democratic candidates.

    I asked the BBB for an evaluation, but I doubt they’ll get any response. This outfit shows all the characteristics of a Democrat/Leftist astro turf “movement.”

  23. It’s easy to run a conversation when the other side is busy trying to find ways to stop it.

    Like playing the Superbowl against an empty field as the opponent team, painfully aware of.being unable to win, all fly off to do some pointless lobbying to change the rules into “whoever disagrees is disqualified”

  24. Ah, yes, our Suzuki Foundation, run by David the Fruit Fly and his coolaid gang, in bed with DeSmog and its PR agency. Together with dozens of piss-pot activist orgs pocketing foreign money…think Soros, Tides and the Saudis…to frighten the kiddies, spread lies and tie up our energy development programs in the courts. Imagine, Canadians working on behalf of Saudis and shadowy combines of foreign corporations and paid-off socialists to wreck our economy and bring misery. In days gone by this would’ve been treason against Queen and country and drawing and quartering was the prescription. We live in gentler times; firing squads might have to do. Harrumph!

  25. My two cents:
    I oppose the EPA’s effort to limit industrial carbon dioxide production as it is a necessary byproduct of the production of the energy on which all our lives depend.

    These new carbon dioxide standards would do nothing for air quality, as carbon dioxide is a colorless, odorless trace gas that is necessary for the survival and growth of plants. Without it, the ecosystem would collapse. Even if these new regulations actually did protect our children, and help our economy by sparking innovation in clean technologies, that is not the EPA’s job and they should not be promoting half-baked energy production schemes.

    Power companies provide the energy most of us could not survive without, and existing regulations effectively prevent them from dumping unlimited amounts of actual carbon pollution into the air.

    Don’t cave in to fear-mongering, ignorant pseudo-science.

    Signed: my other email account.

  26. Click the link (€€€) but dont sign the petition! They will just use your LCV membership as a vote of confidence and ignore or delete your message…

  27. The “League of Conservation Voters” are dangerous:
    Contact info is here: http://www.lcv.org/about/mission/

    All Politics is local
    State partners working to advance strong environmental policies at the state and local level

    http://www.lcv.org/

    Contact info is here: http://www.lcv.org/about/mission/
    This is the board: http://www.lcv.org/about/board/

    This one is a real winner. (DO NOT CLICK!) http://action.lcv.org/site/PageServer?pagename=CR_Petition_TAF

    It would seem that if you click on the link it you automatically send the message with your e-mail address WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION!
    This is what is returned:

    League of Conservation Voters
    Thanks!
    Your signature has been submitted.

    Thank you for standing with the EPA. Please take a moment and ask your friends and family to help protect the air we breathe and the water we drink.
    Email Your Friends

    Email Your Friends Or, copy and paste the text below into an email message:

    Tweet This Action

    Facebook Join me in standing with the EPA
    http:www.lcv.org

    {Letter that can not be modified]
    Republican leaders in the House have taken a big step toward making Newt Gingrich’s plan to eliminate the EPA a reality by slashing funding for environmental safeguards in their proposed funding measure. We can’t let these attacks go unanswered–tell Speaker Boehner: keep your dirty hands off the EPA.

    Paid for by the League of Conservation Voters. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.

  28. @

    Alan Bates on March 22, 2012 at 12:19 pm said:
    Is it just me (in the UK) or does the title of the ogranisation sound odd?

    “League of Conservation Voters “

    LCV: Leaugue of Confused Voters?

  29. Look at all that evil carbon pollution in the photo!

    Wait, isn’t CO2 colorless? Maybe that’s not carbon pollution in the photo?

  30. Hi Anthony!

    Keep up the great work!

    I have an idea…. how many readers does WUWT have?
    How does that compare to the number of members of LCV?

    Reading the fine print, ‘…. and are entitled to vote for a member of LCV’s Board of Directors.’
    If we ‘excercise’ the offered entitlement, can we elect some real common-sense conservationists (instead of left-wing activist political hacks) to the LCV Board of Directors?

    Again, thanks for a wonderful site!

    Jim

  31. I click every day. I don’t go any further though as I don’t want them using my name for their purposes. I do advertising for a living and I can tell you every unique surfer clicking the ad costs them. It’s just pennies but if enough of us do it we can actually bring them to their knees.

  32. Justthinkin says:
    March 22, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    To all WUWT commenters who wish to send a message to the EPA/LCV.
    We have a similar campaign going on here in Canada now,started by the Suzuki Foundation. Like the EPA,they are screaming because our Senate has the cojhonnes to start investigating their tax-exempt charity status after it was revealed they are taking foreign monies to lobby against the Canadian economy.
    Long story short,same scam. You agree to become a member of the Foundation,etc,etc. What most of us Canucks have been doing is copy and pasting the form letter to our email,THEN editing it and sending it off to our Senators,MP’s and Prime Minister. Completely by-passes the eco-cultists web servers etc. And you are guarenteed it gets to the people intended,not some hyperspace file 13. So far it is having are GREAT effect on their campaign,not that they like it! Heh.

    I would say Justthinkin is right. This is the right way to address this insult.
    I feel insulted by the add and the approach, and the right way is… well exactly how justthinkin said, bypass the eco-cultists web servers etc, go directly.

  33. Peter Kovachev says:
    March 22, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    …… In days gone by this would’ve been treason against Queen and country and drawing and quartering was the prescription. We live in gentler times; firing squads might have to do. Harrumph!
    __________________________________
    Or at least tar and feathers. I have been collecting feathers….

  34. I don’t know that we’re having much of an effect. The Global Warming conjecture is mainly collapsing under the weight of its own lies. You can only fiddle the temperature figures so far…

    However, when you’re an activist going down, there is a lot of infighting amongst all the ‘comrades’. Always happens. Someone HAS to be blamed, because it’s inconceivable that anything could have been wrong with The Cause.

    You can see this in the frantic attempts recently to paint the ‘deniers’ as all-powerful monsters funded by Big Oil. Everything that’s going wrong is because the deniers are out-spending the scientists, and indulging in dirty tricks…

  35. William Mason says:
    March 22, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    I click every day. I don’t go any further though as I don’t want them using my name for their purposes. I do advertising for a living and I can tell you every unique surfer clicking the ad costs them. It’s just pennies but if enough of us do it we can actually bring them to their knees.

    William,
    Have you any idea how many clicks it would take to even get above the noise in the funding budgets behind these sites? Some of their supporters have more disposable funds than some small countries.

    [Those pennies go to support WUWT. ~dbs, mod.]

  36. Throughout geological times, generally carbon dioxide has been going down. There are natural sinks that will never release it back to the atmosphere for plants to use to make oxygen and food. Eventually the total CO2 concentration in the atmosphere will be too low to sustain life on this planet via photosynthesis. We might actually have to mine those sinks in order to maintain life. Once again, humanity’s ingenuity will save the day.

  37. The following mail was sent to the League of Conservation Voters:

    Does EPA (the Environmental Protection Agency of the U.S. of A.) seriously believe that environmental carbon dioxide triggers asthma attacks? Does LCV share this view? If the answer is “yes” to both questions, would you care to provide any references to peer reviewed scientific literature?

    If anything, up till now it was thought to be the other way around. See for example:

    The New England Journal of Medicine, 2002; 347:43-53 July 4, 2002
    HYPOCAPNIA (Review Article)

    http://www.breathingretraining.com/HypocapniaNEJM.pdf

    JOHN G. LAFFEY, M.D., AND BRIAN P. KAVANAGH, M.B.

    “clinical data indicate that hypocapnia (reduced blood carbon dioxide level) may contribute to increased airway resistance in patients with asthma”

    However, partial pressures involved in this case are some two orders of magnitude higher than any hypothesized environmental concentration in the foreseeable future. Therefore carbon dioxide emissions, industrial or otherwise, have most likely nothing to do with asthma, they can neither trigger it nor ameliorate it.”

    On the other hand, if the answer is “no” to any one of my questions above, don’t you think a different wording of your manifesto would serve adequate representation of facts better?

    I would be extremely happy to hear from you about this issue.

    Yours sincerely

    Peter Berenyi

  38. Why don’t all these energy companies just make a week vacation, or two, switch off their wells and power stations and enjoy life. I mean, nobody needs this stuff / energy anyway, unless it is superclean. They produce all this stuff just for fun and to willfully damage Mother Nature …
    Go beach guys, simply shrug it off your shoulders.
    O M G

  39. Anyone believing carbon dioxide is a pollutant should stop breathing and they can save their world that way. Humans exhale CO2 and plants thrive on it. I am tired of cluesless individuals with worthless science and math in their education. The head of the EPA has an undergrad in chemistry. We should stop all synthetic chemistry because PCB’s and other synthetics kill more people than what we exhale. Maybe they should hold their breath and not exhale carbon dioxide. Either way, they shut up.

  40. Hi Anthony,

    If people click on these ads on your website, do you get a certain amount of revenue?

    Cheers,

    Mark

  41. I’m debating installing a heavy Plexiglas cover over the LCD TV screen, as I’m getting really close to a Flying Coffee Mug Moment when those LYING BIASED Sierra Club ads come on. If you don’t know about them, Steve Milloy covered them on JunkScience, has the video link. He quotes from the State-Journal:

    An advertisement from national environmentalists groups asks the question what “if every polluter’s lobbyist was suddenly replaced by asthmatic children.”

    The commercial, posted to YouTube, proposes that the answer is that members of Congress would stop trying to “gut Clean Air Standards.” The Sierra Club and National Resources Defense Council is spending seven figures to buy television ad space supporting new standards from the Obama administration’s Environmental Protection Agency…

    And there are all those pictures of little tiny kids sucking on vaporizers like if they were being treated in the emergency room, only one was using an inhaler, which would be one of those less-effective ones since the EPA got rid of the CFC propellants.

    Which “polluters” don’t have lobbyists in Congress? Farmers have lobbyists. Manufacturers have lobbyists. Retailers have lobbyists, and they pollute with cleaning chemicals, truck and forklift exhaust, they use electricity from coal-fired plants. And whether it’s paper, plastic, or fabric bags, the manufacturer of all of them makes pollution, and as the retailers are handing out that which must be disposed of someday then they are directly polluting. Hell, Greenpeace is a polluter. Don’t their offices use fluorescent lighting thus they have mercury and electrical/electronic component disposal issues? And don’t tell me all of their throwaway flyers and mailers are using earth-friendly bio-degradable inks, or there is no pollution in making the paper and inks and from the printing. We should replace their lobbyist too?

    Besides, last I heard it was NOT “arsenic, mercury, and toxic chemicals” in ambient air causing asthma. Here’s a recent 2005 paper, complete online and free:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1398-9995.2005.00854.x/full

    Is the hygiene hypothesis still a viable explanation for the increased prevalence of asthma?
    T. A. E. Platts-Mills, E. Erwin, P. Heymann, J. Woodfolk
    Allergy
    Volume 60, Issue Supplement s79, pages 25–31, May 2005

    Conclusion: asthma increases are best seen as an ongoing interaction between allergen exposure, hygiene and lifestyle

    … Using this analysis, the severity of asthma in North American cities becomes much easier to explain. Children in New York, Atlanta, Philadelphia or Washington DC spend long hours indoors, have high exposure to dust-mite, cockroach or rodent allergens, and very low levels of physical activity.

    Clearly, we need to develop methods for increasing prolonged physical activity, both among patients with asthma and in the general population. We also need to investigate whether prolonged moderate activity is beneficial in the treatment of asthma (39). It is equally clear that the current obsession of the medical profession with the pharmaceutical management of asthma does not address the reasons why the disease has become so common and severe.

    Gut the EPA. Bring in Real Scientists who know and understand Real Science, not the “feel good” Sierra Clubbing/GreenWar/WTWF post-reality faux science.

    And Stop Abusing Our Children by making parents and guardians think they can blame their child’s ailment on “polluters”, you opportunistic parasites. You’re diverting resources that could go to finding and implementing Real Treatments into your own coffers, which is horribly despicable. You are beneath contempt. And as history has shown, as is seen every day across the globe, our children would suffer in misery without the cheap energy and the technological advances powered by and crafted by and provided by “polluters”.

    Sierra Club, you have gone too far. You deserve no respect. You deserve no sympathy. I await the day when your entire organization goes down in flames, and will welcome whatever group that arises that will truly and logically care for the environment without resorting to cynically and fraudulently extracting funds from the breaths of innocent children.

  42. Ian W says:
    William,
    Have you any idea how many clicks it would take to even get above the noise in the funding budgets behind these sites? Some of their supporters have more disposable funds than some small countries.

    This is true BUT! I was not so much thinking about bringing their organization to their knees but more in line with killing this campaign. Clicks are usually around 10 to 20 cents. That doesn’t sound like much but what if 500k of us click every day for say 10 days. At the middle ground of 15 cents per click that would add up to $750k. That’s not chump change and they would have little to show for it.

  43. A WSJ Opinion today, concerning the Supreme Court ruling against the EPA, suggests that there is at least some limitations to the bureaucracy’s power: “In a 9-0 ruling, they concluded that the Environmental Protection Agency can’t terrorize Americans via regulation without allowing them a day in court.”

  44. I endorse the idea of completely bypassing the EPA and writing direct to elected officials, as otherwise the EPA claim you as a member number that agrees with their course of conduct. Not surprising that the Suzuki foundation uses the same to boost their numbers. We have. We represent xxxxx members, helps give weight i.e. an argument from authority of mythical numbers. The other trick done by local government officials is to invite submissions on a “green passionate issue” where they know that the “passionate” will support the issue, and only a few will be motivated to write opposing the issue, but to make sure, they then presume that those that didn’t object are actually supporting the green vote by failing to write in and show their opposition!!. The 97 per cent consensus claim lives by default.

  45. Charlie H says:
    March 22, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Photoshop for the win…

    Dihydrogen monoxide condensate may be one of the most dangerous chemicals on Earth. It causes untold property damage, and kills thousands of people every year.

  46. The mentioned WSJ opinion piece, with backup links to the story as WSJ tends to move things behind their paywall:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204257504577152830079320346.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/us/supreme-court-allows-lawsuit-in-epa-wetlands-case.html

    FindLaw: Sackett v. EPA: Yes, You Can Fight the Man

    (And I quickly found out I can access the WSJ piece from a Google search, but I get the paywall routine if I just put the address in the URL bar.)

    Basically a couple started to build a house, then the EPA declared it wetlands by their authority from the Clean Water Act, which when originally envisioned was to deal with pollution in navigable waters, not land that could possibly be wet during the year. Regulating wetlands was something EPA decided they could do.

    EPA can issue a compliance order, demanding the land be returned to “natural state”, and fine someone every day until it’s done. Then fine them twice as they’re not in compliance. There is no appeal process to the ruling. The only way to get your day in court is to first not obey the compliance order, which risks higher fines as it’s “breaking the law”, then you can challenge it, and the EPA considers you guilty no matter what until you comply. This case was based on the EPA system violating due process.

    This was a narrow ruling where the couple “…can challenge the compliance order in court under the Administrative Procedure Act.” Not much, but it’s better than nothing, I guess.

    Dang. I know there’s title insurance, in case it turns out you don’t have clear title to a piece of property. I wonder if they sell “EPA diktat” insurance.

  47. More Soylent Green! says:
    March 22, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Look at all that evil carbon pollution in the photo!

    Wait, isn’t CO2 colorless? Maybe that’s not carbon pollution in the photo?
    ==================================
    Yes, it is, but lying for a good cause is a good thing, isn’t it?

  48. These Green liberal types always use the attack that conservatives are stupid ignorant hicks clinging to their guns and their fishing poles.. They have used the word “Conservation”. in their name assured that those stupid rubes will click it when they read “League of Conservative Voters”.
    I think that outfit really exists.

  49. They sound like the Australian leftie astroturfers, GETUP. Last time I looked, GETUP had 29 (yep!) issues of deep concern on the go, and urge people to click on their various petitions. Once you click on any of them, you become a ‘member’. They then go around claiming that they have x number of ‘members’ and credulous or stupid media and politicians actually believe them. Last count they were up to over 400,000 ‘members.’

    The only plus is that apparently ‘members’ get constantly spammed by the organisation with messages urging them to do something about the issue du jour, and there have been quite a few complaints about this. It also seems that un-joining is a lot harder than joining.

    Hopefully their annoying and dishonest methods will backfire in the long run. Meanwhile, they get taken seriously by gullible (I’m being kind here) journalists and politicians because of their alleged status as a huge popular movement.

  50. No surprises about LCV – http://www.lcv.org/about/board/

    Carol Browner, John Podesta, Theodore Roosevelt IV (Honorary Chair). Roosevelt is the former MD of Lehman Brothers Holdings, is also on the board at World Resources Institute with Al Gore and he was involved with Browner and Gore in setting up Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection. He is also chairman of the Pew Centre for Global Climate Change. James Hansen was scientific adviser to Lehman Bros. Gore’s GIM carbon company banked with them.

    23 Jun 2011
    WASHINGTON – The League of Conservation Voters today announced the addition of former EPA Administrator Carol Browner to its Board of Directors. Leading the EPA from 1993 to 2001, Ms. Browner was the longest serving administrator in the agency’s history. From 2009 until earlier this year, Ms. Browner served in the White House as Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change.

    Browner recently returned to Podesta’s Center for American Progress, (offshoots, Campus Progress and Joe Romm at Climate Progress), part funded by Soros.

  51. On David Suzuki’s site this is my (slight) modification of the existing letter. Too… much… fun…!
    Subject: Canadians want real information about environmental issues not special interest propaganda

    Dear Senator Eaton, Members of the Senate, and Members of Parliament,

    As a Canadian who cares deeply about the future of our country, I am extremely encouraged by the recent attempts of some senators to investigate advocacy groups operating under the cover of protectors of the environment.

    Some senators have correctly labelled those who raise concerns about environmental issues as “anti-Canadian” and have questioned the integrity of supposedly legitimate Canadian organizations like the David Suzuki Foundation.

    I am proud to support an investigation into the funding of Canada’s environmental organizations, which have a long history of claiming they are protecting biodiversity but instead are promoting public misunderstanding of environmental issues, and providing propaganda unsupported by actual science. They purport to help Canada steward the natural environment on which we all depend for our health and future prosperity by advocating policies that will directly and negatively impact our future prosperity and quality of life.

    The Senate is supposed to be a house of sober second thought. In that light it is interesting to see the reaction of such biased, special interest groups as the Suzuki Foundation that feel that they are exempt from scrutiny or over site, who think the only course that will further debate about matters of vital national importance is to agree with everything they say, asking no questions at all.

    Like many Canadians, I believe that characterizing funding in excess of three hundred million dollars as an “issue of relatively small amounts of international funding …[as] a distraction and effort to silence and discredit(!?) Canadian organizations that are looking out for the interests of Canada and Canadians(!!??)” speaks volumes about the delusional state, the sheer hubris of these advocacy groups in general and David Suzuki’s foundation in particular.

    A democracy functions best when all points of view are considered rationally and carefully, and when our leaders, both elected and appointed, examine the facts before speaking. Especially when those facts don’t all issue from the mouths of well funded green organizations that seem more focused on dismantling our economic machinery under the guise of largely imagined man-made environmental issues.

    As a Canadian who looks to the House of Commons and the Senate for leadership, I applaud you for the business of thoughtful debate rather than succumbing to the nonsense that your questions “stifle the voices of millions of Canadians with whom you may not agree”.

    Sincerely,
    Ian MacMillan

  52. Anyone else get a junk phone call from these folks? I got one early this afternoon (1 PM PDST 23 March) in Reno area

  53. Slide2112 says:
    March 22, 2012 at 11:51 am

    My note to them:

    I support clean air and a SANE energy economy!

    Our nation must have a REALISTIC energy policy– BUT these new clean air standards would FORCE innovation into NON-PRODUCTIVE UNSESTANABLE technologies that DESTROY more jobs then they can create.

    Start drilling for oil here in the U.S. The economic boom that will result will fund tomorrows innovation for a better world.

    You might want to get someone to proofread that for you before you make a fool of yourself.

    Oops. Too late.

  54. On Thursday a different judge also ruled against the EPA. This was a surface coal mining matter.

    Folks the EPA is a hazzard. It is slowly but clearly being rejected in courts.

    ” The Appalachian coal industry scored a major victory Thursday when a federal district court judge ruled the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has been overstepping its authority by subjecting mountaintop-removal mining operations to more stringent permit reviews.”

    http://www.wvmetronews.com/index.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=48346&type=

  55. Lifetime tenure for all EPA employees so that they never need feel that fear for their own comfort might influence their mission to save the world from Americanism.

  56. I realise I’m late to the post – but the whole ‘by signing you are eligble to vote’ seems foolish, I mean if all of wuwt were to sign, send a message counter etc, then we’d all could vote for someone – everyone to be like Mr. Watts to be the board of directors of LCV… That would be… fun.

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