This was in our guest author queue, but I was never notified of its existence. Better late than never. – Anthony
Guest post by David Middleton…
EA: Warming may be irreversible by 2017
Published: Nov. 11, 2011LONDON, Nov. 11 (UPI) — Rising energy demands could result in irreversible global warming by 2017 without strict new standards, an energy watchdog group said this week in London.
The International Energy Agency said in its latest World Energy Outlook, released Wednesday, that a “remarkable” 5 percent jump in global primary energy demand last year pushed greenhouse gas emissions to a new high due to the rebound of the world’s economies following the 2008 financial crisis.
And that, it said, bodes ill for efforts to reach a long-term target of limiting the global average temperature increase to 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels — especially with moves by governments to shift resources away from developing clean energy technologies as more economic problems arise.
“Without further action by 2017, the energy-related infrastructure then in place would generate all the CO2 emissions allowed” to keep the temperature rise at 2 degrees or lower, the report said
[…]
What warming?
Oh good. Perhaps after 2017 the AGW people will go away.
Even though its too late to stop that dreadful 2 degree warming,
you can still stop an even more horrible warming of 10 degrees
if you just give us all the money and all the power.
What, you say? Sea-levels are falling and there’s no warming yet?
Well, of course not! You can thank our carbon markets for that!
Thank our mileage mandates and our fuel taxes and our bureaucracy!
Because CO2 goes up so fast, it’s only fair that Big Govt grow even faster.
Folks you have NO IDEA the extent to which you are being manipulated and indoctrinated.
For example:
http://www.garrisoninstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=244&Itemid=1071
Get that? They are basically trying to figure out how to manipulate the masses on the issue of climate change. This is NOT ABOUT SCIENCE, people, this is about using climate change to push a political agenda. Now, want a REAL eye opener? Look at the participant biographies of those attending the March 2010 symposium.
http://www.garrisoninstitute.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=148&Itemid=1324
Any of those names look familiar to you? Several of them should.
And there’s even someone from the “International Energy Agency” there, Alan Belensz:
Even Andy Revkin is there.
Look, folks, this is NOT some “foil hat” paranoid rant. These people ARE conspiring on how to manipulate the masses on this issue. WAKE UP! This is how they “win the debate”. They don’t have to convince you, they convince the upcoming generations.
Give me a the eco-con special with extra funding and I’d like a side order of irreversible doom please.
Better never for this mendacity.
Yup-Al Gore gave us 10 years and we have 4 years and a few days left before we burn up according to him. I better get packing-oh I am already.
This sort of line reminds me of a bad sales pitch, “You must act now … this offer won’t last …”
Maybe someone could remember, but didn’t we already past the point of no return according to past predictions?
“……new high due to the rebound of the world’s economies following the 2008 financial crisis.”
=============================================================
Excuse me? What “rebound” are they talking about? Entire nations are about to go bankrupt. Millions are out of work and quit looking just in the USA. Energy policy related to fossil fuel is being written to ensure the de-industrialization of the planet. And all the while, taxpayers are being scammed by govt’s pushing expensive light bulbs, intermittent and unreliable energy technologies, and electric golf carts at enormous cost. What is wrong with these morons?
Seems like with the Durban meeting coming up, we’re being subjected in the media to more dire predictions disconnected from reality.
It appears global warming has already reversed its irreversiblity as predicted in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Indeed, none of the dire predictions of out-of-control warming have come to pass.
Here’s another one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/dec/04/whales-new-species-britain?fb=optOut
Now follow the money. Look at that list of attendees of people who would want to “apply” the “emerging understanding of human behavior and human nature generated by behavioral and social sciences, integrating them with insights from evolutionary theory and psychology” to “climate change policy and related ecological issues”.
Cha Ching! (sound of cash drawer opening)
Cha Ching!
Cha Ching!
That is only the FIRST THREE ATTENDEES. And I am somewhat gobsmacked by the third one. “alternative measures of economic progress” indeed! Apparently they can’t use conventional methods of measuring economic progress such as “how much money do we take in, how much do we spend, how much do we have left” because that would highlight the fleecing the people are being subjected to so apparently “alternative” ways of measuring economic progress must be developed so the people look forward to the trip to the cleaners.
This is absolutely sick, people.
Oh, and you will notice that David Fenton of Fenton Communications is there, too.
“May be irreversible by 2017.” Maybe by 2016. Maybe by 2071. Maybe yer uncle is really yer aunt, but I wouldn’t like to see my government base its policies on that possibility.
Henny Youngman said it best: “My doctor told me I had 6 months to live, I told him I was broke and couldn’t pay his bill… so he gave me another 6 months.”
Crosspatch:
Don’t get too carried away with the idea that the general public can be “manipulated and indoctrinated” that easily. (If so, why are the polls not showing it?)
All the influence in the world isn’t going to work unless the planet actually warms up.
Even Goebbels’ vaunted propaganda machine wasn’t able to convince people that the Nazis and the military were able to defend the country when the bombs were falling. (Bill Shirer has some interesting observations on this in his Berlin Diary.)
It’s also worth considering that these people may be working to maintain their own self-deception as much as anything else.
And the point of my bringing that entire “Climate, Mind and Behavior Program” into this thread is to place this particular news story about the “irreversible” melting of the ice into that context. It is designed to be manipulative by making people afraid so they will buy in to the deal.
They study human behavior and psychology. Fenton Communications, the primary PR agent for “climate change” is there. Fenton helps produce all sorts of stuff designed to shovel more money to the whole “green business” thing. This article for example:
http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2011/03/22/mapping-out-complexities-corporate-sustainabilty
The “International Energy Agency” even picked a name to make it sound like some sort of official UN agency. It is DESIGNED to be confusing to people.
“Without further action by 2017, the energy-related infrastructure then in place would generate all the CO2 emissions allowed” to keep the temperature rise at 2 degrees or lower, the report said
Translation
“What we really mean is that with there being no evidence after all this time for alarm regarding the effects from CO2 future emissions. The scare, we are trying to keep alive (scientifically dead already), now looks likely ending very soon. Therefore please give all your cash so we can benefit before politicians become aware of this and prevents us from greed before it’s too late”
…another 6 years of temperatures falling
Global Warming Irreversible in 2009: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99888903
Global Warming Irreversible by 2012: http://www.greenenergytimes.org/2011/11/20/iea-global-warming-irreversible-by-2012/
etc
The Onion has a remarkably similar article, but says we have to curtail GHG emissions by 2006…
http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-global-warming-may-be-irreversible-by-2006,26808/
May be irreversible by 2017.
Then again, it may not. But it will be irreversible in 5, 10, 15 or 20 years after that. It doesn’t matter, whenever we pass on of these deadlines without the sky caving in on us, the threat will still be just over the horizon.
Do I remember a televangelist who was going to be called home by God if he didn’t raise enough money by a certain time? Sound familiar? How did that work out?
crosspatch:
I wouldn’t exaggerate the extent to which these people can influence public opinion thru “behavioral science”.
It won’t work if the planet doesn’t actually start warming. (Disinformation works when people can’t test it against their own experience. Otherwise, it breaks down, no matter how sophisticated the spiel – or the “behavioral techniques”.)
This kind of thing is almost always overrated (an interesting fact in itself). This includes Goebbels’ vaunted propaganda machine, which wasn’t able to convince people on the street that they would be protected by the Nazis and the German army as soon as the bombs started falling. (Bill Shirer has some interesting observations on this in his Berlin Diary.)
I suspect that the main reason these people are promoting such stuff is that they are desperately trying to maintain their own self-deception. It’s one more demonstration of how pathetic they really are.
PS: Sorry for the second posting. My browser confused me – I thought the comment had been lost.
Poll all citizens under the age of 20 and get back to me. They are doing it through the education system. You will not find a single book in a school library that challenges the notion of AGW. They all present it is established fact. Same with their “science” curriculum. Most of those people are not yet included in opinion polls. Those polls will be changing as we continue, year after year, to pump kids out of schools who believe it is established fact and only crazy toothless Republican hillbillies would believe it isn’t.
Typo in introduction: “que” should be “queue”.
[Dang, and I had just fixed it when you posted. -w.]
So only 6 more years and we won’t have to listen to all the BS being spread around?
Somehow I doubt it.
And we probably know what’ll happen when that 2017 prediction doesn’t eventuate. Going by the many failings of the Chicken Littles.
The new cry from the AGW/CC warmist brigade:
If we don’t act now. Irrevisble warming by 2021:
Then there is the irreversible cooling that comes after the “irreversible” warming. But maybe Professor Mann can hide them both, though not irreversibly.
How long can they sting out this narrative of uncontrolled warming before the villagers take up their pitch forks and torches and attack castles of the climate doom mongers.
Wils: “[2007] What if climate change appears to be just mainly a multidecadal natural
fluctuation? They’ll kill us probably […]”
@P.F. says at 11:28 am: “Seems like with the Durban meeting coming up, we’re being subjected in the media to more dire predictions disconnected from reality.”
Reality: China building and planning 77 nuclear reactors; USA 10; UK 4; Germany 0; Socialist Republic of Vietnam 4; Russia 24.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/reactors.html
Remember that global warming will kill 4.5 billion people this month.
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/01/08/01291.html
This is because of the Giant Wooly Mammoth Fart that has been trapped in the permafrost for thousands of years. Global warming melting the permafrost will cause the BIG SBD to be released tomorrow or Wednesday, dooming almost 2/3 of human beings to die by New Year’s Eve.
Sitting here at my computer in Sub tropical Australia where it is again much cooler than average and overcast when the norm is hot sunshine with occasional aftyernoon thunderstorms and for the second year in a row despite the idiotic protestations of the warmest year on record last year I have to agree – where is the warming ?
Has anybody else noticed the change in spin ? Now they aren’t the “hottest” years ever but the warmest.
Hooray! Mitigation is dead! Long live Adaptation!
With Adaptation, we can spend our money at home rather than sending it to the various medieval kingdoms that rule most of the remainder of the world.
On a related issue, has anyone seen the reviews on Amazon for the eagerly awaited new book coming out in March: The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines by Michael Mann.
Here they are, hold onto your hats:
“Very few people have sounded more important alarms about our climate future, and very few people have paid a higher price for doing so. Michael Mann is a hero, and this book is a remarkable account of the science and politics of the defining issue of our time. — Bill McKibben, author of Eaarth: Making a Life on a Tough New Planet The brilliant and courageous climatologist Michael Mann knows what it’s like to be viciously attacked by the well-funded deniers of scientific evidence and how critical it is to respond. In this gripping, personal, front-lines account of climate politics, Mann tells the “hockey stick” story, exposing the forces behind the denialist rhetoric, refuting the charges of disinformation campaigns, and eloquently conveying the importance of both doing great science and communicating its societal implications to a wider public. — Paul R. Ehrlich, co-author of The Dominant Animal: Human Evolution and the Environment and Humanity on a Tightrope Although not initially of his own choosing, Michael Mann has been the most important, resilient, and outspoken warrior in the climate battle–responding to threats and persecution with courage and resolve every step of the way. Anyone who cares about the climate issue must read his fascinating–and enraging–story. — Chris Mooney, author of Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens Our Future In The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars, Michael Mann presents his conviction that climate change is real and potentially deadly, and defends his now famous “Hockey Stick Graph.” A truly readable book on a topic that will remain evergreen. — James Lovelock, author of A New Look at Life on Earth and The Revenge of Gaia A must read to appreciate the endless disinformation campaign by climate change deniers at the highest levels of government and corporate America…and the chilling, but serious implications of the crusade to discredit distinguished scientists like Michael Mann. — Sherwood Boehlert, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives 1983-2007, former chairman of the House Science Committee As one of the nation’s leading climate researchers, no one has felt the brunt of the attacks from politicians and the fossil fuel industry more than Michael Mann. This is his personal account from the center of the maelstrom, documenting the lies and distortions about his work and his heroic efforts to stand up for scientific truth. — Henry Waxman, Democratic member of the U.S. House of Representatives, former chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee”
OK all you well-funded deniers, how’s that for a little high blown rhetoric? Pooooor heroic M. Mann, when are you going to stop picking on him?
Crosspatch, I agree that the indoctrination of school children is a problem. However, there is one unavoidable and steadily approaching reality that will turn the tide, and that is the rapidly cooling weather and climate. The winters in the USA and the EU are becoming more bitter each year and summer is patchy at best.
As the sun continues into it’s long slowdown things will get colder still, and remain cold long enough for the current generation of school kids to grow up, and when they do they will be angry at what will have become by then the evident fraud that the “co2 cause religion team” had foisted on them and society.
The backlash of these young voters, and perhaps rioters, against the blinkered politicians and so-called scientists (co2 fanboys) may well make the history books. I look forward to watching all this on TV as I wait for God, always assuming alzheimers isn’t going to spoil my enjoyment of it.
I am not convinced. They already adjust things like sea level and temperature measurements to show and up trend at times when there isn’t one. The satellite measurements show no warming trend so the warmanistas discount UAH and MSU even though they are taken by completely different instruments on completely different satellites and the raw data are interpreted in completely different ways by completely different teams of people yet largely agree.
They are going to try to convince you that it isn’t cooling, the data simply needs more “adjustment” to show the warming or that cooling is really an indication of warming.
Just watch and see.
If we keep pumping that coolant gas into the atmosphere and happen to time it with a maunder like minimum, we’re gunna freeze our proverbials off, especially at night.
“Get that? They are basically trying to figure out how to manipulate the masses on the issue of climate change. This is NOT ABOUT SCIENCE, people, this is about using climate change to push a political agenda. Now, want a REAL eye opener? Look at the participant biographies of those attending the March 2010 symposium.”
Who would have thought that the usual topic of conversation in Humanities faculty lounges would receive such spectacular funding? Especially because there was no need to fund it. All anyone has to do is go to the local Humanities Faculty Lounge. In case some might not know, the participants are all communists or communist wannabes. But everyone is invited.
Right. That is because the maximum temperatures haven’t broken records so they aren’t the hottest but the annual average is higher so it is the warmest year overall. It’s how they play with words. For example, if you look at the 2010 El Nino, it wasn’t as extreme at its peak as the 1998 event. But it was broader and more gradual. One way to roughly eyeball without actually doing the math if the average over one peak is going to be higher than the average over another peak is to get an idea of the surface area inside the peak. If the 2010 peak plotted on graph paper has more grid squares inside the peak than the 1998 did, then chances are pretty good the 2010 will have a higher average. A higher peak that is shorter in duration may produce a year with a lower average than a lower peak that is broader. So they are just twisting the numbers to best fit their message. 2010 wasn’t hotter than 1998 but it was “warmer” now the very next year, 2011 becomes “10th warmest in all of history” or something but we can’t know that because our instrument records don’t go far enough back in time to say that.
So the question becomes … with the largest CO2 increase in recorded history, 2010 comes in at only 10th warmest? Why didn’t we see the largest temperature increase if we saw the largest CO2 increase? That is because of “natural variation” in temperatures or something …. weather … which only happens when it cools. If it warms, it is due to CO2. If it cools, it is due to nature.
Somebody ought to tell Sydney.
Coldest summer start in Sydney in 44 years…
http://www.waginargus.com.au/news/national/national/general/sydneys-coldest-start-to-summer-in-50-years/2380861.aspx
Of course though, “weather is not climate”! Sieg Heil!
In other words, 1998 can be “hottest year ever!” because it had the month with the highest average temperature while 2010 can be “warmest year ever” because it had the highest annual average. So both statements can be true. But please, lets all forget about 2008, ok? 2008 was colder than 1979.
Latitude says:
December 5, 2011 at 12:11 pm
…another 6 years of temperatures falling
Cool! A new groundhog! We must have a new groundhog’s day. When? And what will we call it?
How about Weasel Day on January 15?
In all fairness what this is saying is that energy choices made now, will stick around for a long time. Personally I am all for energy efficiency, just so long as we don’t waste our important petrochemical resources by burning them as a short term solution to something that might not happen!
crosspatch says:
December 5, 2011 at 11:09 am
Look who else made the list: “Anthony “Van” Jones is a globally recognized, award-winning pioneer in human rights and the clean energy economy.”
Green energy tzar, anyone?
You can’t use a graph of only 10 years of data to talk about climate change. Climate needs to be discussed in terms of several decades, if not centuries.
Here is the same data used in that graph (HadCRUT3 Temperature Anomaly) since the 1860s http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif (source: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/)
The IEA is a lost cause now.
With regard to the picture in the post.
The poor ice; it was already thin and ragged in July 2005, so what did they do?
They chopped it up some more with an icebreaker. Then they wonder why it’s ‘rotten’ or why it melts quicker.
Tells the same story. A rise in temperatures from the 1970s to about 2000 and flat since then. The trick that is played with the mind here is the selection of the zero “normal” and the coloration of stuff above it as “red”. What can even get more confusing to the eye/mind is when trend lines are added as this can imply a stable rate of change unless you make an effort to ignore the trend line and actually look at the data.
So the graph you link shows no change for the past 11 years or so. More importantly there is no significant difference in either the rate or magnitude of the rise from the 1970’s to 2000 and that shown in the graph starting in about 1910 and lasting to about 1940 before it goes roughly flat, too. So the rise in those 30 years from 1910 to 1940 is expected to be accepted as a “natural” rise in temperatures by the nearly identical rate and duration of the rise from the 1970’s to 2000 is man made?
Sorry, I’m just not buying it. Explain to me why the earlier rise is natural and the more recent one isn’t even though they are similar in their magnitude and duration.
So when those methane farting dinosaurs roamed the planet and CO2 levels were ten times that of today, How exactly did they prevent the global cooker from run away heating. Oh yeah they didn’t. And we had ice ages.
Google: “warming irreversible”
2008
Irreversible climate change due to carbon dioxide emissions
Contributed by Susan Solomon, December 16, 2008 (received for review ….. CO2
perturbation and ocean warming. Irreversible climate changes due to carbon …
2009
BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Global warming is ‘irreversible’
27 Jan 2009 … A team of environmental researchers in the US warns many effects of climate
change are irreversible.
2010
Thread Global warming ‘irreversible’ for next 1000 years: study …
10 Oct 2010 … Published (2010-10-06 13:47:00). Judged: 1 1 1 Earthling wrote: <quoted
text>That means, Global warming ‘irreversible’ for next 998 …
2011
Global warming irreversible, say experts | thetelegraph.com.au
22 Nov 2011 … HEAT-TRAPPING greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are building up so high
and so fast that some scientists now think the world can no …
And of course..
Global Warming Irreversible | The Onion – America’s Finest News …
30 Jun 2006 … According to the journal Science, the human influence on the Earth’s climate will
be irreversible within the next 100 years. What do…
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://www.theonion.com/articles/global-warming-irreversible,15024/&sa=U&ei=DFLdTveRIuOlsALhwsWIDg&ved=0CA8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEzCQ1c59CcvTjCwVWP6Ubt6d_D9g
“is expected to be accepted as a “natural” rise in temperatures by the nearly identical rate and duration of the rise ” should be “is expected to be accepted as a “natural” rise in temperatures but the nearly identical rate and duration of the rise
It is true. The UK’s Met Office has confirmed how bad things are:
05 Dec 2011
“The Met Office’s Hadley Centre has today added to the flurry of recent reports warning of potentially catastrophic climate impacts if urgent action is not taken to try to limit global average temperature rises to 2º Centigrade.”
http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2130139/met-office-report-warns-soaring-climate-risks
So, with this slam dunk research by top experts, looks like the debate is over. Thank goodness this confirmation came out in time for Durban.
Oh, yes, absolutely SOARING risks. Don’t you feel much more afraid now and willing to do whatever they say in order to avoid that SOARING risk? Think of the children!
Nice photo to go with the story.
“Taken from the US Coastguard Icebreaker Healey.”
Ice Breaker – In Summer ?
How many deadlines have already passed? Anyone keeping track?
crosspatch. It is worse than you think. These soaring risks are unprecedented. Risks never used to soar. Now, like soaring hawks, they are rising due to all the hot air which is, of course, a result of unprecendented catastrophic runaway extreme climate change disruption caused by greedy immoral lizard brained capitalists, and their ilk.
Just like Tutu said.
Curiousgeorge says:
December 5, 2011 at 11:23 am
….Excuse me? What “rebound” are they talking about? Entire nations are about to go bankrupt. Millions are out of work and quit looking just in the USA. Energy policy related to fossil fuel is being written to ensure the de-industrialization of the planet. And all the while, taxpayers are being scammed by govt’s pushing expensive light bulbs, intermittent and unreliable energy technologies, and electric golf carts at enormous cost. What is wrong with these morons?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There is nothing wrong with the “Morons” Everything is going according to plan. (Sustainability = UN Agenda 21)
You can not institute “Global Governance” without first demolishing the United States and Europe economically and the EU and WTO were specifically instituted to do so. You also need a horrible world crisis to convince everyone that we have to have a WORLD government to solve it. Enter CAGW stage left.
Our kids are already being taught to be “World Citizens” why the heck do you think the flag and the pledge of allegiance has been attacked and pretty much removed from schools?
While we were not looking our politicians decided to sellout our nations. The USA and the nations of Europe no longer exist except in the minds of old people.
Of What Use Global Governance? by Pascal Lamy, Director, World Trade Organization (WTO). https://theglobaljournal.net/article/view/56/
Acquired through a FOIA request ~ CIA document Global Governance 2025: http://www.foia.cia.gov/2025/2025_Global_Governance.pdf
Welcome to the National Intelligence Council (NIC) The National Intelligence Council is pleased to release Global Governance 2025: At a Critical Juncture…. https://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_home.html
I am very much afraid we have awakened too late and our grandchildren will curse our names.
“Warming may be irreversible by 2017″ because by 2017 the planet will be cooling and further plunging into a 30 year cool phase. These same individuals will be telling ” Cooling will be irreversible unless we restart and refire those fossil fuel furnaces “. Just wait as the 2011-2012 winter unfolds in the new year.The Pacific and Atlantic oceans are cooling and it is only a matter of time before the Northern Hemisphere will have weather like the late 1970’s. Several inland areas have already experienced this extra cold weather for the last 3-5 winters .
2017? Sounds like the new 5 year plan is ready for prime time.
Explain to me why the earlier rise is natural and the more recent one isn’t
I didn’t think he would.
“Warming may be irreversible by 2017″
Oh yeah, what about the Klingon invasion in 2016 that’s predicted by Psychic Larry? Without exaggerating, the evidence for that is every bit as good as the evidence for CAGW. We desperately need to allocate trillions of dollars for space-based weapons, for tribbles (to detect stealth Klingons who’ve had plastic surgery), and for other countermeasures. By the way, I volunteer, to be the administrator for that particular U.N. agency. Moderator, do I really need a sarc tag here?
Don’t all panic at once … the EU economies will, as they say in Ireland, be fecked for the next few years so not a lot of chance of emissions rising as a result of the EU economies. The euro is likely to disappear and the EU (God willing) will disintegrate leaving the marxist EU politburo wondering what to do next. The last thing on their mind then will be the global warming scam – apart from it’s tax raising powers.
Meanwhile in Sydney we’re wondering wtf happened to summer.
“Yesterday Sydney had its lowest December minimum for 16 years, with the morning temperature dropping to 11.8 degrees. Katoomba almost froze, and at 2.4 degrees experienced its lowest December minimum on record. It’s the coldest first week in December since 1960.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/everyones-got-cold-feet-and-brides-are-getting-nervous-20111205-1ofjo.html#ixzz1fiKeCwPi
Gail, thanks for the links. I’m aware of Agenda 21, but the others I’d not heard about. I hope you know that my morons question was rhetorical. 😉
As for global governance, that’s been a dream of various conquerors for a few thousand years of course. A couple even came pretty close to it, in terms of the then known world.
Will the 1/3rd of the stations shown to be cooling in the Berkley analysis be permanently cooling then? Inquiring minds want to know.
crosspatch says:
December 5, 2011 at 11:53 am
And the point of my bringing that entire “Climate, Mind and Behavior Program” into this thread is to place this particular news story about the “irreversible” melting of the ice into that context. It is designed to be manipulative by making people afraid so they will buy in to the deal……
___________________________
The worst part is even if the people do not “Buy into the deal” they will just shove it down our throats any way.
The carbon fiasco in Australia is an excellent example and the Food Safety Modernization Act 2010passed during the lame duck section and the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 enacted December 23.
Heck all they need is a very vocal mob like Occupy Wall Street and a stinking lying media to convince people that the “Majority” want carbon taxes to “Save the Earth”
Here are examples of how the Media twists things:
While Rasmussen polls say “69% Say It’s Likely Scientists Have Falsified Global Warming Research” http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/environment_energy/69_say_it_s_likely_scientists_have_falsified_global_warming_research
The general News Media is broadcasting.
Notice how the News Media has twisted the wording from “63 percent of Americans say there is “solid evidence” that the earth’s temperature has increased in past decades…” which the majority of skeptics here at WUWT agree with to “… believe in global warming” inferring a belief in CAGW.
The Council on Foreign Relations goes even further
Where in heaven are they pulling these numbers from? Polls taken only on college campuses? I would throw int the towel after reading this garbage if I did not know better.
The Blair-Rockefeller poll shows how questions can be twitsed to get the desired answers. (I have access to the questions)
The University of Arkansas press release of JUNE 21, 2011 states: The Tea Party is Not the Same as the Grand Old Party
Tea Party marked by negative views on health care, race and future
….Maxwell’s report, titled “Tea Party Distinguished by Racial Views and Fear of the Future,” was drawn from the first Blair-Rockefeller Poll, conducted in November 2010. In the report, Maxwell delineates demographics, characteristics and policy preferences of the Tea Party movement….
The press release of course lead to all the news media labeling the Tea Party as “Racist”
Yet when you dig into the report and questions you find:
Again this is a subtle wording of the questions to twist the meaning. It is well known the Tea Party wants a curb in spending and a much smaller government. Therefore ANY question started with “Do you think it is the responsibility of the federal government…” is likely to be answered NO! Dislike of Obama also has about as much to do with race as the liberals dislike of
BushCain has to do with race.When people begin to rail about how humans would drive the atmosphere into something uninhabitable due to burning of some fossil fuel, I am reminded of this article:
http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/appalachian-mountains-rock-ice-age
The more CO2 you put into the atmosphere, the faster nature will remove it.
Crosspatch: If someone has figured out how to influence and direct the next generation, sign me freakin up for that seminar. I couldn’t influence my teens to open their mouths when presented with food, let alone influence what they believed. And neither could their teachers.
Pamela, if they have alternative information, I would agree with you. I would be willing to make a bet with you. Offer to give an assembly at your local school with a lecture on the “uncertainties surrounding Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming” (or is it now SOARINGLY Catastrophic … I don’t recall) and see how quickly your request would be denied. In California, the teachers union runs the school and the curriculum in the public schools and it is the same in many other states. The teachers would not stand for it. One reason is that it would go against the curriculum they are teaching. The LAST thing these teachers want is students questioning their lessons on AGW.
The teachers union and most of the rest of academia is very supportive of the “progressive” agenda. CAGW is the issue that enables much of the underlying policies and concepts of the progressive agenda. Because the atmosphere is global, it requires the enabling of some sort of world governance to “fight” it on a global scale even if there is no possible way that human beings could cause the sort of problems they predict even if we dumped every single bit of fuel we had into the air ( and a volcano erupted through an oil field and coal seam at exactly the same time). The CAGW crowd even wants us to believe we will “saturate” natures ability to remove CO2 from the atmosphere in the face of direct historical information that when Earth had CO2 levels 20 times today’s levels, the impact was for it to be scrubbed out even FASTER.
jntkwx says:
December 5, 2011 at 3:08 pm
You can’t use a graph of only 10 years of data to talk about climate change. Climate needs to be discussed in terms of several decades, if not centuries.
Here is the same data used in that graph (HadCRUT3 Temperature Anomaly) since the 1860s http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif (source: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/)
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I prefer Lucy ‘s graph it tells the story much better: http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Images/ice-HS/noaa_gisp2_icecore_anim_adj.gif
TerryT says:
December 5, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Meanwhile in Sydney we’re wondering wtf happened to summer.
“Yesterday Sydney had its lowest December minimum for 16 years, with the morning temperature dropping to 11.8 degrees. Katoomba almost froze, and at 2.4 degrees experienced its lowest December minimum on record. It’s the coldest first week in December since 1960.
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SEE Julia Gillard’s Carbon Tax is already working. It is MAGIC!
Gail, even in the link he provided, there is clearly warming of the same rate and magnitude as the most recent spell but that 30 year period was “natural” and the most recent 30 year period was “anthropogenic”. Weird.
Curiousgeorge says:
December 5, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Gail, thanks for the links. I’m aware of Agenda 21, but the others I’d not heard about. I hope you know that my morons question was rhetorical. 😉 …
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Yes but I prefer knaves for polite company..
Speaking of “what warming”, the November data from RSS is just in at ftp://ftp.ssmi.com/msu/monthly_time_series/rss_monthly_msu_amsu_channel_tlt_anomalies_land_and_ocean_v03_3.txt Can someone confirm my quickie spreadsdsheet linear trendline analysis? I get a negative slope using RSS monthly data from March 1997 to November 2011. That’s over 14 years of global cooling, approaching 15 years.
Another interesting item in the latest RSS data, it looks like 2011 will be cooler than 1995, unless the December anomaly spikes up to +0.245 or higher. Again, can people please check the data at the URL above to confirm my numbers?
Month 1995 2011
==================
Jan 0.178 0.085
Feb 0.133 0.051
Mar 0.037 -0.028
Apr 0.248 0.106
May 0.131 0.125
Jun 0.164 0.297
Jul 0.044 0.328
Aug 0.285 0.286
Sep 0.324 0.287
Oct 0.204 0.089
Nov 0.209 0.033
Dec -0.053
AGW has had more farewells than John Farnham and Nellie Melba put together.
That’s correct. If you use too short or too long of a time series, AGW vanishes in a puff of mathematics. It only manifests in a Goldilocks time series.
Look closely at the photo at the top of the article. Look at the larger view in the source article. Notice how dark the ice surface is where the intrepid explorers are walking. That’s soot. From Asia. That’s why the ice is melting.
where we live in sydney at 1pm temp is 14.7 coldest since 1960 Al please help us
crosspatch says:
December 5, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Pamela, if they have alternative information, I would agree with you. …The teachers would not stand for it. One reason is that it would go against the curriculum they are teaching. The LAST thing these teachers want is students questioning their lessons on AGW….
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The teachers do not want the students questioning ANYTHING what they want is good little team players not individual thinkers and they make DARN sure that is what they turn out.
Gifted or ADD: drugging our gifted children: http://borntoexplore.org/gifted.htm
Ritilin may cause Brain damage: http://www.yourspine.com/Chiropractic/Ritalin+May+Cause+Longterm+Brain+Damage.aspx
Ritalin and School violence linked: http://www.ritalindeath.com/education/school-violence.htm
Death from Ritalin http://www.ritalindeath.com/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/37134858/The-Hand-That-Rocked-the-Cradle-Rockefeller-Funding-1920-60
… Over the last three decades the rate of drug treatment for behavior problems has increased exponentially, culminating in the prescription of ADHD drug treatment for at least 5 to 6 million American children annually….In the same Virginia region previously studied,… Among elementary students, 17% of all students and 33% of white boys had been diagnosed with ADHD and the vast majority had been medicated for this condition at some time during the 1997-98 school year…. http://www.srmhp.org/0201/adhd.html
Given the hells our schools have become, I recommend Homeschooling to my customers when ever possible. (I do children’s entertainment) Two million American children are schooled at home, with the number growing at 15 to 20 percent per year. These kids are the future of our
country.
Gail, when public school teachers won’t send their kids to public school, that should tell you something.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/22/20040922-122847-5968r/?page=all
Nationwide public school teachers are twice as likely as other parents to send their kids to private school. In some cities it is much higher than that.
“J Martin & Crosspatch, I agree that the indoctrination of school children is a problem. ”
I was very pleasantly surprised last year when my son came home (grade 7) and said they had watched AIT at school. That part didn’t surprise me but his science teacher’s response did. My son knew of my skeptic view of humans causing it so he asked his science teacher and the response was “see how many errors you can find in the movie”. Needless to say searching for “AIT & errors” on google gave my son a first rate introduction to a proper skeptical view of AWG.
“the rebound of the world’s economies following the 2008 financial crisis” … These people obviously want to delude us about economics just as much as they do about climate.
Crosspatch – re. your several political posts, sadly, my friend, I entirely agree with you. And to all those who dismiss them as conspiratorial alarmism, perhaps you should reflect that the tiny group of humanoids concerned have, if they need it, the ultimate way to force this crap on us. Force.
I’m not wild about that trend line placement. The swings are bigger because of solar minimum and increased vulcanism. We could easily be looking to frack a stratosphere eruption to cool things down by 2017. There are some sly cats who also think that, and they’ve managed somehow to go in and hide much of the abundant volcanism of the 1930s from the records. So that it cannot be used against their AGW religion.
It could even go the other way and they lose. Several large volcanic eruptions could change everything. If they make the stratosphere.
His eyes opened wide, ………………..h/t ST:TNG
Irreversible warming? Does that mean we won’t slip back into the “glacial” phase of our current ice-age… ever? Excellent!
UPI.com Over 100 years of journalistic excellence. Oh, really? How on earth did I miss the internet’s centennial celebrations…
As i have said it is the 5 years “irreversible” rule. The disaster is and always be 5 years from the present.
Crosspatch is right but accuses the wrong people. The real alarmist organization is The Club of Rome.
Founder members include:- Clinton, Prince Charles, Prince Philip, the list is long and includes other well known so called leaders.
Art Bell, Edgar Cayce, Immanuel Velikovsky and Charles Hapgood notwithstanding, no one has hidden any records of volcanism, meteors, comets, a hollow Earth or any other catastrophic nonsense.
I’m counting on global warming to prevent the next ice age.
The usual schlock from the usual shysters.
I must be a Trekker / Trekie when I know what David Ball is referring to.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Darmok
Curiousgeorge says:
December 5, 2011 at 11:23 am
What is wrong with these morons?
First they came for the deniers,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a denier.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
crosspatch says:
December 5, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Nationwide public school teachers are twice as likely as other parents to send their kids to private school. In some cities it is much higher than that.
We see similar trends among climate scientists and the IPCC. Telling everyone they need to reduce their carbon footprint, while at the same time making theirs bigger.
But of course, it is OK for them, because they are doing it for “the cause”.
2017? It could be sooner than we thought. I was sent this email today from an organisation called Avaaz. Of course, they are looking for money to send a team to Durban. The email was accompanied by an online petition and the petition had a photograph of two poor Polar Bears ‘stranded’ on a bit of ice. Poor things.
Dear friends,
Our planet is dying and big oil companies have key nations in their pockets, blocking any chance of a climate treaty. We have 3 days before UN talks end — let’s call on the EU, Brazil and China to lead us towards a deal to save the planet! Click here to sign the urgent petition:
Our oceans are dying, our air changing, and our forests and grasslands turning to deserts. From fish and plants to wildlife to human beings, we are killing the planet that sustains us, and fast. There is one single greatest cause of this destruction of the natural world — climate change, and in the next 3 days, we have a chance to stop it.
The UN treaty on climate change — our best hope for action — expires next year. But a greedy US-led coalition of oil-captured countries is trying to kill it forever. It’s staggeringly difficult to believe: they are trading short term profits for the survival of our natural world.
The EU, Brazil and China are all on the fence — they are not slaves to oil companies the way the US is, but they need to hear a massive call to action from people before they really lead financially and politically to save the UN treaty. The world is gathered at the climate summit for the next 3 days to make the big decision. Let’s send our leaders a massive call to stand up to big oil and save the planet — an Avaaz team at the summit will deliver our call directly:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/the_planet_is_dying/?vl
Things are becoming desperate. All over our planet extreme weather continues to smash records, leaving millions homeless and without food or shelter. We’re rapidly reaching our point of no return to stop runaway climate change — we only have until 2015 to start making drastic reductions to our carbon pollution.
Yet despite this very real urgency, the world has failed to mobilise against the fossil fuel-captured democracy of the US. Not only content with wrecking the Copenhagen talks and the Kyoto protocol, they are now building a coalition of climate treaty killers to put the final nail in the coffin of international negotiations in Africa.
Our only hope to turn things around lies with Europe, Brazil and China — they can make a deal happen, but they need to do it together, and that’s where we come in. Europe is tired, it’s fought long and hard on climate and needs a public boost. China has already agreed to binding commitments, is sensitive to its international reputation, and could lead further if we give it an encouraging push. And Brazil is hosting next year’s earth summit — making it eager to set the world up for climate success. Let’s build a giant global call to bring our champions together and build a green dream team. Sign the petition now and forward this email:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/the_planet_is_dying/?vl
The crazy focus on short term profits that motivates countries to stall and scuttle action on a climate crisis that literally threatens the survival of all of us cannot be tolerated. Fortunately, our movement has the power to intervene in this process and demand change. Let’s stand together and inspire others to stand with us for a safer, more humane world.
With hope and determination,
Luis, Emma, Ricken, Iain, Antonia, Morgan, Dalia, Pascal and the rest of the Avaaz team
I cry foul! I was all over this when it came out in November! I was first dammit… FIRST!!!! 🙂
Steve C says:
December 5, 2011 at 10:33 pm
“the rebound of the world’s economies following the 2008 financial crisis” … These people obviously want to delude us about economics just as much as they do about climate.
Crosspatch – re. your several political posts, sadly, my friend, I entirely agree with you. And to all those who dismiss them as conspiratorial alarmism, perhaps you should reflect that the tiny group of humanoids concerned have, if they need it, the ultimate way to force this crap on us. Force.
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Our 2008 Valentines day present: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=403d90d6-7a61-41ac-8cef-902a1d14879d
Canada, U.S. agree to use each other’s troops in civil emergencies
Canada and the U.S. have signed an agreement that paves the way for the militaries from either nation to send troops across each other’s borders during an emergency….
John Marshall says:
December 6, 2011 at 2:30 am
Crosspatch is right but accuses the wrong people. The real alarmist organization is The Club of Rome.
Founder members include:- Clinton, Prince Charles, Prince Philip, the list is long and includes other well known so called leaders.
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It goes back a lot further than that.
Try the Fabians or the Central bankers (City of London)
There have been and always will be power hungry people. Those with no scruples but great charm and street smarts rise to the top. Unfortunately they pas it down in family lines, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Warburg, Bush….
Are you forgetting, that they were able to capture an entire generation within the Hitler Youth.
Total control over information will enslave everyone, including the staunch skeptic. How can it not when all information confirms the status quo?? When consensus determines science… we are done like cookies. Remember – a cooling planet can be reported as a warming one. They merely state:
GK
As clearly demonstrated in Libya, domestic troops are not properly utilized when asked to slaughter their own people. Foreign troops will carry out orders so much more ruthlessly. It is strictly the tool of a failing regime. GK
“jntkwx says:
December 5, 2011 at 3:08 pm
You can’t use a graph of only 10 years of data to talk about climate change. Climate needs to be discussed in terms of several decades, if not centuries.
Here is the same data used in that graph (HadCRUT3 Temperature Anomaly) since the 1860s http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif ”
You are absolutely right, What you have to look at is all that blue going down to 0.5c on the left, when temps were low globally. Then you look slowly across to the right as it goes to zero, then up to +0.5c in the same way to a peak. Guess whats coming next? Yep, its going down, it’s a cycle.
That’s how you look at long term data, you dont just go “oh it was cool now its hot, we are all gonna burn”.
They are a wire service that started in newspapers. You can find the fossil remains of their earlier incarnation if you look in the phone book under “Thomas”.
“Dalter Dnes says:
December 5, 2011 at 7:04 pm
Can someone confirm my quickie spreadsdsheet linear trendline analysis?”
I agree with you on both points. RSS has a negative slope for 14 years and 9 months. However we may not have to wait 3 months to reach 15 years since if present trends continue, we may reach 15 years in two months.
As well, at http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/diagnostics/global/nh+sh/
Hadcrut3 shows 2011 running neck and neck with 1997 so far.
@ Middleton
The Smithsonian Global Volcanism Program ‘find eruptions by date’ was inoperable for months. Now if you go in there the 1930s are much different. Much less eruptions and VEI levels than what I found before.
Personally, I think you’re nonsense.
My advice to you, is to stop reading Velikovsky, take a few semesters of geology and invest in one of these.
Go to Find a Volcano by Eruption Date and enter “Any Month” for specific years.
Just a random sampling…
1901 There were 29 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1915 There were 36 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1924 There were 44 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1931 There were 35 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1933 There were 49 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1935 There were 42 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1937 There were 43 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1939 There were 50 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1946 There were 38 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1958 There were 54 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1964 There were 55 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1977 There were 64 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1985 There were 54 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
1996 There were 59 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
2007 There were 72 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
2011 There were 56 volcanoes that had confirmed eruptions during this time.
Which volcanic eruptions of the 1930’s have been hidden from the public?
NGDC also maintains a volcano database. It shows 257 Significant Volcanic Events from 1901-2011 (an average of 23 per decade, standard deviation of 5). One decade exceeded 1 SD, the 1980’s (35) and two decades fell below 1 SD, the 1920’s (17) and the 1930’s (16). Is the NGDC also suppressing volcanic eruptions of the 1930’s? How about the 1920’s?
1901 to 1910 : 22 Significant Volcanic Events
1911 to 1920 : 23 Significant Volcanic Events
1921 to 1930 : 17 Significant Volcanic Events
1931 to 1940 : 16 Significant Volcanic Events
1941 to 1950 : 20 Significant Volcanic Events
1951 to 1960 : 28 Significant Volcanic Events
1961 to 1970 : 25 Significant Volcanic Events
1971 to 1980 : 35 Significant Volcanic Events
1981 to 1990 : 24 Significant Volcanic Events
1991 to 2000 : 24 Significant Volcanic Events
2001 to 2010 : 23 Significant Volcanic Events
Global warming is already showing its impact. In the last decade vivid climate change has happened. The whole world have witnessed the disasters in different countries which are basically the impacts of climate change. Various factors are involved for the change in climate system which are called climate forcing mechanisms. These are broadly speaking climate change causes.
That’s so far off the mark, that it’s not even wrong…
“So we were surprised that none of the three major indices of climate variability that we used show a trend of increased circulation going back to 1871.”
Figure 16 from Compo et al., 2011.
“The three major indices of climate variability” show no evidence that climate change is having any effect on extreme weather events…
Which makes sense… Because there is no evidence that climate extremes are increasing either…
NOAA Climate Extremes Index
If we’ve had significant climate change over the last 150 years, the Köppen Climate Classification Map should reflect those changes… Right?
1901-1925 Köppen Climate Classification Map
1951-2000 Köppen Climate Classification Map
I’m sure that if I printed these maps out at full scale and overlaid them on a light table, I could see some differences because climate is always changing… But, eyeballing it, I don’t see much difference between the early 20th century vs. mid-late 20th century climates.