Socialists of the World Unite for Youth Climate Conference

2011 Power Shift Conference banner

Guest Post by Ryan Maue:

Starting Friday, April 15 in Washington DC, we will be able to witness an absolutely surreal public display of anti-capitalist, extreme far-left community organizing, all wrapped in the cloak of climate change / clean energy activism:  The Power Shift Youth Climate ConferenceCan we finally stipulate that there exists a well-organized nexus of scientists/politicians/organizations that wish to solve the “climate crisis”, and are using the issue as a political tool to further their leftist agenda? From the list of speakers, partners, and Workshop Titles, there is certainly no doubt about the motivations of this collection of greens.  Arrogant, condescending scientists and politicians sneer at so-called anti-science, Big Oil Republicans and demand global warming adherence as a litmus test for elected office.  Instead, advocate scientists and environmentalists should be continually questioned about their motivations prior to consideration of their extreme|draconian policy prescriptions.  I’m getting really tired of their holier-than-thou-attitude.

Logo

After this, you will know the true meaning of the acronym of Win The Future.

Noel Sheppard at newsbusters.org provides a nice summary of the speaker line up, including EPA administrator Lisa Jackson, everyone’s (especially Glenn Beck’s) favorite communist and former Green Jobs Czar Van Jones, and, of course, Nobel Prize winner Al Gore! Keynote speaker list.

Perusing the program of this Youth Climate Conference should immediately disabuse you of all preconceived notions that climate change is not a political issue:

Plain and simple: Power Shift 2011 is a mission to recruit 10,000 youth leaders from every walk of life to be on the front lines in the fight for a clean energy future.

We are moving far beyond the pursuit of building a crowd for a weekend conference. Power Shift 2011 attendees – young faith leaders, entrepreneurs, student government leaders, social justice advocates and blue-collar workers – are signing up for the launch of critical, focused, and strategic campaign efforts in their communities.

“Our Power Shift 2011 “training boot camp” will yield 10,000 leaders, equipped with the game plans, tools, and strategies to WIN on the frontlines of every community across this country.”

Dr. James Hansen of NASA death trains/coal protesting infamy should like this workshop:

Energy Action

Is it too much to dream of an America where polluters are held accountable for their disasters? Is it too much to dream of an America where people aren’t burdened with the cost of pollution? Is it too much to dream of an America where citizens are in charge of our energy decisions, not big polluters? We don’t think so.

Then we will form two marches, one storming Capitol Hill to lobby and hold our elected leaders accountable, the other will march from one corporate polluter’s office to another and return to Lafeyette Park for a dance party.

Here are a list of other Workshop Titles:  Link to many, many more

Sex and Sustainability

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce:  Dirty Money, Chamberleaks, and how to win back Main Street

Ethical Solutions to Environmental Classism  – Case Studies around the World

What would Jesus/Moses/The Buddha Drive?  An Inter-Faith Discussion on Religious Environmental Activism

From the BP Oil Spill to the Japanese Nuclear Crisis:  Why Capitalism is Killing the Planet:

The past year alone has highlighted the massive toll taken on our planet by the coal, oil, and nuclear energy industries.  Yet President Obama continues to support these three industries, which have produced not only ecological catastrophe but also widespread human suffering.  This panel will discuss why this is the case, how it is linked to a system of global capitalism that puts profit before the needs of human beings and the planet, and how we can move beyond the capitalist ecological crisis.
Panelists
Chris Williams, International Socialist Organization
Heather Kangas, International Socialist Organization
Amanda Duzak, International Socialist Organization

Finding the Billions for Clean Energy and Climate Justice Now!

The global economy is suffering the greatest setback since the Great Depression in large part because of Wall Street gamblers. The gambling continues unabated, with hundreds of billions in bailouts from taxpayers. Meanwhile, the world is spending more than $1.5 trillion every year on the military, with the United States accounting for nearly half of that figure. Pentagon spending is rising even as our cities are cutting back on vital social services. More than half of all discretionary spending goes to the military here in the United States. The climate crisis requires us to raise $100-$400 billion per year if we are to address our obligations to the poorest and to the planet. This workshop will explain how to slow climate change, while restoring a sane, stable global economy.

Regulating Greenhouse Gases (GHGS) Under the Clean Air Act

Stop the Tar Sands Invasion

Climate Voices — The Human Rights of Climate Change

High School and Junior High Organizing

Exposing the Climate Denial Machine

What to do when the President’s just not that into you (program excerpt below)

Despite the hopes of millions that President Obama would champion clean energy and help solve the climate crisis, his response has fallen far short of what’s necessary. At best, his record and rhetoric have been mixed. At worst, he’s actively obstructed progress by boosting offshore drilling, recently announcing a huge expansion of coal mining on public lands, and financing environmentally destructive products overseas. President Obama has also treated the environmental movement, and especially the youth climate movement, with relative disdain: while there are many examples, the most visible was refusing to speak to the 2009 Powershift conference, and then attending a Washington Wizards basketball game just two blocks away. The panel will explore some key questions that have bedeviled our movement since Obama’s inauguration: What is President Obama’s climate/environment record? How should the climate movement deal with the White House? What can we learn from other movements’ response to the White House? Is there a possibility for a pro-environment, progressive challenger to Obama in the 2012 primaries? Is that a good idea? To answer these questions, and share inside knowledge, we’ll feature some of the brightest thinkers on climate politics and movements.

Panelists
Glenn Hurowitz, Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy
Bill McKibben, Founder, 350.org
Lt. Dan Choi, Founding Member, Knights Out
Jane Hamsher, Founder, Firedoglake

Next Steps for White Allies  (program excerpt below)

“Now that you understand the importance of diversity and inclusion to the climate change movement, how do you practice being a strong white ally?   For the most part, white folks have little opportunity to talk about race, racism or how to be an ally to people of color. Indeed, we are socialized to not notice or talk about such things.  It can be lonely being a white ally.”

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133 thoughts on “Socialists of the World Unite for Youth Climate Conference

  1. I only hope that it snows ….
    Socialists never realize the difference between say West Berlin in the 70’s and East.
    As an old CIA spook I knew said- “On a clear day you might see the Brandenburg gate
    from W.Berlin due to all the smoke and haze-From East Berlin-including from the
    notorious Trabant two strokes. They are only interested in power, not a clean environment…”
    Ironically, they celebrate both Lenin and Hitler’s birthdays…

  2. Nice work, Mr. Maue. This is an excellent opportunity to reveal the communist roots of the Green movement, not to mention trunk and limbs.

  3. Funny how socialists scream for liberation, yet support carbon taxes and regulation schemes. “Liberation through Regulation” is a perfect chant for them.

    I would love to go to these rallies with signs saying “Don’t forget the Medieval Warm Period” or “Kudryavtsev and Porfiryev were right”, though these kids probably never heard of abiogenic oil theory.

  4. I wouldn’t worry too much about this given that the only ‘well known’ speaker is McKibben and all the International Socialist participants are decrying capitalism whilst using the fruits of it to spread their ‘message’.

    Small beer.

  5. Very scary stuff. Leftists who can’t win at the polls indoctrinating the next generation.

    Recently a student here (who attended Cancun) wrote in the local paper (more or less), “Democracy is not working for the green movement … we need to change the system.”

    Eco-fascism is alive a growing.

    Clive
    Alberta

  6. This has far more humor potential than the previous post about the climate communicator awards.

    “Sex and Sustainability”
    ^^ ??? wow, hilarious. I think there are pills for this now.

    “What would Jesus/Moses/The Buddha Drive?”
    ^^ Of course, they’re not a religion, which is why they use appeal to authority arguments any chance they get, riiiight…

  7. I would think they would do a cyber virtual meeting . . . I will say that the President has pretty much got that down with the Whitehouse facebook site and CSpan has got the rest of that technology covered with their committee hearings techniques. . .

    And they don’t charge $80 bucks to do it . . . . “Only $80 for students for all three days of programming!” http://www.powershift2011.org/

    three days of programming??? Just what does that mean?

  8. Conferences like this should be a source of embarrassing quotes to throw in believers’ faces. Similar conferences in the past should be trawled (if possible) for juicy bloopers.

  9. April 15! How ironic to hold it on the day US taxpayers have to submit their tax returns to support Big Government.

  10. Rob says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Quite, quite mad.

    I don’t agree with some of what they say, but a lot of their complaints are factual, valid and make sense. They are far from “quite mad”.

    There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party, and the leading Republican candidates for the presidential nomination, who claim that President Obama was not born in the US.

    The history of the idea of global warming is that the scientific objections to the idea of AGW, which arose in the late 1980’s were the spearheaded by right wing think tanks who objected to government regulation. So the politicization of this issue originated with the American political right.

    [RyanM: you nailed it, the Tea Party is "mad as hell" at the economic situation and big government. Trump is a very smart man, and he will tell you that often. No other GOP would-be candidates are touching the birther issue.]

  11. In the 1950’s we just wanted to get Marxists out of the defence and state departments and off the streets. It seems nobody cared much about them going into the universities and media, and into public education. Now we have a major problem!

  12. This is so transparently a piece of what used to be called Madison Avenue manipulation that I would be surprised, and of course dismayed, if large numbers of young people actually turn up. These slick websites, such as Powershift’s, the work of astro-turfing workshops, are not really very cool, nor appealing. They lack grit, integrity, and of course that unfashionable but still important to humans young and old, truth. I’m hoping for a non-event in Washington. If it is not, we have a bigger hill to climb.

  13. “What would Jesus/Moses/The Buddha Drive? An Inter-Faith Discussion on Religious Environmental Activism”

    ====

    Why don’t they just admit they are proselytizing bahai belief?

  14. “Stop the Tar Sands Invasion”
    WOW, that sounds scary. I don’t want Tar Sands invading my house.

    If they are talking about petroleum product that originate from the Alberta Oil Sands, well it isn’t much on an invasion. It is how is has always been. A smallish % of US petrolium comes from the Alberta Oil Sands. Rather than an invasion, it is really more of a takeover. Most of the Oil Sands development happening now is being done by American publicly traded corporations.

  15. What would Mohammed drive? Uh, don’t mention Mohammed, we don’t want to get in trouble… Very courageous. But i’ll take a guess. Mohammed was a merchant AFAIK; his natural choice would be a Mercedes.

  16. This isn’t a laughing matter. There is an urgency by the ideologues to get going before the planet cools too much so they can take credit for the cooling and then lead us to their promised land. With every socialist experiment a gross failure, the whole world would go down into a very long dark age.

    The dumbing down of America appears to be having scarier cpnsequences than had been thought.

  17. You are not alone in the US Anthony … we have the blue shirt brigade (brown is so very last century) in Australia in the AYCC:

    http://aycc.org.au/

    Here’s a picture:

    The youth are so very easy to manipulate for their political masters…

  18. Physics Major says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    April 15! How ironic to hold it on the day US taxpayers have to submit their tax returns to support Big Government.

    Maybe 1) many will attend, forgetting, in the process, to submit their taxes on time, hence garnering big penalties, or 2) many won’t attend, realizing that they left their taxes to the last minute.

    See? Democracy working for the Greens!

  19. eadler says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm
    “The history of the idea of global warming is that the scientific objections to the idea of AGW, which arose in the late 1980′s were the spearheaded by right wing think tanks who objected to government regulation. So the politicization of this issue originated with the American political right.”

    You seem to live under the illusion that pro-AGW scientists are politically neutral and scientific objectors are right wing. Maybe that skewed worldview arises from your point of view?

  20. Rob says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party, and the leading Republican candidates for the presidential nomination, who claim that President Obama was not born in the US.

    This is actually a example of a logical fallacy close to a hasty generalization. You are associating all Tea Partiers and all of their gripes about the U.S. government with the birther issue. In fact the tea party’s main focus and their primary focus has always been out-of-control government spending, hence the name, “Tea Party” referring to people who violently opposed British taxes 200+ years ago.

  21. This “Power Shift Youth” seem to be a scruffy lot – some of them in their website pictures appear not to be wearing the regulation black shirt. No discipline! They look and sound like a sort of Common Purpose for Kids – a band of barking mad little zealots who will run around applauding one another for every act which goes beyond their smugly self-imposed “duty”, every offence against reason, every stamp of boot on face. I wish you well in dealing with them. Sometimes I yearn for that overdue Ice Age.

  22. Yeah. This whole conference makes a lot of sense. Because as we all know every country where Socialism has replaced Capitalism has changed from a wasteland to an environmental paradise.

  23. eadler says:

    “There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party…”

    IANAR, nor a tea party member. But correct me if I’m wrong: the tea party primarily wants the government to abide by the original U.S. Constitution. How does that make them “quite and totally mad”? Is there a mirror behind your keyboard?

    It appears that you are scared of their power. And rightly so, since conservatives outnumber liberals by 2:1 in the U.S.A., and in all 50 states.

  24. Find the source of the misanthropic green socialist ethic – go see the newly released part one movie, Atlas Shrugged.

  25. eadler says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm
    [-------The history of the idea of global warming is that the scientific objections to the idea of AGW, which arose in the late 1980′s were the spearheaded by right wing think tanks who objected to government regulation. So the politicization of this issue originated with the American political right.]
    —————————————————————————-
    Eadler. What on earth do these two statements mean? Talk about confused disconnected ideas!

    Douglas

  26. “What would Jesus/Moses/The Buddha Drive?

    Jesus and Moses – Sandals on most days – camels on high and holy days. Greens should trade in all their vehicles for sandals. Camels are the vehicles of the elite , they pollute – and their breath stinks. Buddha – he just sat.

    Douglas

  27. A green/progressive challenger in the ’12 primaries might be a good thing . One in the general election would be better . BTW , the local weekly came out today and this week’s Mini Page is about “Our Changing Climate ” ( It’s Time to Act ) . I was interested to learn that the 1980’s “broke all records for heat across the planet .” Of course , the floods in Australia were blamed on climate change as well . Apparently this drivel came from a “scientist” at NOAA . They’re coming after our very youngest students folks – protect your children and please try to see what the little ones are reading .

  28. ironic how they will travel hundreds, if not thousands, of miles in a state of the art automobile or aircraft, holding signs made from wood pulp from commercial forests, wearing the latest designer fashions and footwear made in some foreign country, to sit in air conditioned or heated comfort, no doubt in plush chairs, stay overnight in a fancy hotel, eating food prepared at their request by business owners who purchased the ingredients that were grown thousands of miles away, sipping water from bottles made from petroleum products, healthy from the vitamin enriched foods they eat, childhood immunizations they received and benefiting from the latst medical advances, after watching their favorite programs on a magical box that transmits sounds and pictures that were recorded hours earlier from miles away, playing games on their i-phones or i-pads that rely on rechargable portable power packs called batteries that use commercially generated electricity all while enjoying a standard of living that is the envy of the entire world whose life expectancy is higher than its ever been AND MUCH MORE

    so that they can protest how capitalism is destroying the planet.

  29. I swear, it’s easy to win buzzword BINGO on these sites. Sustainable, population, clean energy, social justice, gender… BINGO!

    At UNLV, there are so many bulletins, programs and meetings that push the Green-left agenda, I feel that I must post something that throws a wrench into their watermelon-esque worldview.

  30. Totalitarian states, whether labelled socialist, fascist or theocratic raise border ‘fences’ to keep people from escaping to ‘free’ countries.
    Democratic, free, secular states need border controls to keep people out!

    The common factor for those labelled left wing is that they cannot count, at least when it comes to Government spending. They believe that money, like spaghetti, grows on trees. (Panorama, BBC April 1st circa 1961)
    Many are on the government payroll or in totally non-productive jobs which are only viable because they live in a society which produces surpluses provided by the system they choose to demonise.
    The first rule of any democratic government is that they should spend no more than they raise in taxation – from all sources.
    Then a debate can begin about the level of taxation and what the proceeds can be spent on.
    Excessive government borrowing is entirely analogous to the over leveraged borrowing of protected banks (Glass- Steigal being removed) and is equally damaging to economic health. Ultimately, the ordinary tax payer pays.

  31. [RyanM: you nailed it, the Tea Party is "mad as hell" at the economic situation and big government. Trump is a very smart man, and he will tell you that often. No other GOP would-be candidates are touching the birther issue.]

    Perhaps the other would-be candidates realize that it doesn’t matter where our Prez
    was born. As long as his mother was an American, he is an American. Low standard, I know, but there it is.

    Both John McCain and I were born abroad of American parents, and we’re both eligible for the White House, but neither of us wanted the job.

    [RyanM: nice mccain, lol]

  32. Apr 15 is also the premier of Atlas Shrugged pt1, already sold out at many theaters. I doubt if anyone would consider going to both events.

  33. “Can we finally stipulate that there exists a well-organized nexus of scientists/politicians/organizations that wish to solve the “climate crisis”, and are using the issue as a political tool to further their leftist agenda?”

    Works for me.

  34. Anthony,

    Your White Allies comment was priceless. Thanks for the laugh!

    This topic gets me: “From the BP Oil Spill to the Japanese Nuclear Crisis: Why Capitalism is Killing the Planet:

    …Yet President Obama continues to support (the coal, oil and nuclear energy industries), which have produced not only ecological catastrophe but also widespread human suffering.”

    I cry foul on this one. From my limited time spent in Central America and Africa, it’s obvious to see that the LACK of coal, oil and nuclear energy causes many more times the catastrophe and suffering than having them does. The three reduce deforestation, smoke from woodfires, are linked with sanitation and clean rivers, etc.

    I mention the environmental benefits because the Greenies are much more interested in ecological suffering than human suffering (Gaia Be Praised!). Unless of course they can find some nexus to blame the suffering on Big Oil or some other stock devil.

    The pros and cons of injury/mortality/accident rates versus mobility and energy security for coal and oil have been discussed many times. As have been the relative safety of nuclear. But let me mention the lack of nuclear from a local perspective.

    Even with Fukushima having all the problems it is, the scale of problems from LACK of nuclear energy this summer may still outweigh the problems causes by the radiation leaks. On the one hand, many people have had to evacuate their houses and who know when they can come back. On the other hand, they expect blackouts to resume this summer as the factories come back on line and the A/C season gets into gear.

    So you so far known problems of minor injuries and no deaths but 115,000 evacuations from near the reactor (imagine being driven from your home!!). The evacuations are bad. This summer, another bad problem comes up. You will soon have 30,000,000 or so people with periodic loss of electricity. The rolling blackouts will be more than a major inconvenience. Trains are electric, people will need to adjust business hours, avoid elevators, have cold meals and possibly use candles. I do wonder what additional mortality there will be for the elderly and young with the additional physical and mental stress. It is hard to believe that the aged in particular will not be more subject to injuries and deaths with the dark, the high temperatures, additional walking of stairs, lesser shelf life of foods, and so on.

    Well, time will tell. No doubt the news is going to die down really fast once the nuclear situation is resolved, but believe me people, the problems from loss of electricity are going to peak this summer and then continue.

    REPLY: Note that is a guest post by Dr. Ryan Maue, not me – Anthony

  35. Foxgoose;
    Thousands of blooming watermelons — a definite fit as an image of the event!

    I prefer to visualize exploding watermelons, though. As I recall from my destructive youth, takes at least a 4″ firecracker to do a reasonable job.

  36. Anthony;
    I think you need to start using a special large blinking GIF header, “Guest Post” for these things. Never fails that some speed-scan-and-bloviate types overlook the “author” completely.

  37. “Is it too much to dream of an America where citizens are in charge of our energy decisions, ……..”
    ============================================

    Uhhmmm…….. yeh, that’s a “WinTheFuture”???? statement. These are the same pinheads that shut down the last incandescent production plant in the U.S., mandating that we use twirly bulbs.

    Ryan, you are so right. It is past time we stop apologizing for or ignoring the skeptical side that sees the prophetic pronouncement of Khrushchev coming to fruition. Does anyone believe Van Jones is outside the main circle of established circle of environmentalists? We should stop calling them what they want to be called and call them what they are. Totalitarian communists. This isn’t, nor was it ever a scientific debate. It is a political/economic debate. And I’m tired of the citizens of the entire western society paying the price by pretending it is a debate on science. And many skeptics are as much to blame for this as the faux ecologists.

    I’ll give our little czar Sturmabteilung wannabees a little help though. You morons. You elected a politician/ideologue, not an ideologue/politician. The reason why he turned his back on you is because you don’t carry the votes. If you’d spent more time dealing with reality, then you’d understand the political realities more easily. But if you did that, then one or two of you might come to understand a thing called economic realities.

    Fortunately, my children and grandchildren are being armed with information to counter this group of little brownshirts and Gòngqīngtuán. I suggest others do the same.

  38. “What to do when the President’s just not that into you”
    Oh no, the President of the the world’s most powerful/influential country simply doesn’t understand my feelings. How can this possibly be???? More therapy required ….

  39. I like the image from the ‘energy action coalition':

    “Don’t cave to big polluters
    Make them pay”

    … I suspect there will be a lot of anti-General Electric posters at this ‘rally’!

    No!
    Huh… I wonder why?

  40. Mike McMillan says:
    April 13, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    [RyanM: you nailed it, the Tea Party is "mad as hell" at the economic situation and big government. Trump is a very smart man, and he will tell you that often. No other GOP would-be candidates are touching the birther issue.]

    Perhaps the other would-be candidates realize that it doesn’t matter where our Prez
    was born. As long as his mother was an American, he is an American. Low standard, I know, but there it is.
    ===============================================

    Thank you Mike. This can’t be stated enough. While I can’t say I’m a repub, I am very conservative. This “issue” is an embarrassment and allows the left to perpetuate the myth of conservatives being ill-informed. (Although, I seriously doubt the lefties are familiar with the laws and judicial interpretations, either.)

    For those not familiar. READ THE CONSTITUTION! Understand that it doesn’t define what “a natural born citizen” is. So, it is left to the courts. Citizenship has been addressed several times. As Mike states, just because Mike is born abroad, doesn’t mean he’s not eligible. Use your heads!

  41. My Concessions Stand will feature pacifiers and diapers. I’ll leave it to someone else to sell the Giant Paper Mache’ Puppets.

  42. Obama’s past is not an open book. Indeed it is a book, but likely written by Bill Ayers, who is a fellow traveler. It does not take a genius to see the connections between current policy, both foreign and domestic, of the administration and elements on the far left.
    Politically, Obama likely agrees 100% with the goals of the Youth Climate confab — it is his green energy policy — but the blatantly public exposition of socialism was way too toxic for him politically to show up and speak, sort of like Reverend Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity Church. And, remember Van Jones was his hand-picked Green Energy czar.

    Scientists naively ignore the political agendas of militant leftist environmentalists to society’s ultimate peril. To the politicians, scientists are useful idiots.

  43. I’ve always called April 15th ‘April Fools Day’, but this year the ‘deadline’ has been extended to the 18th.

    The useful idiot watermelons in D.C. have got the whole weekend covered with foolishness.

    All we can do is watch (and mock) them.

    God help us!

  44. “Why Capitalism is Killing the Planet”

    Tells all you need to know right there. Same propaganda as the Soviets, just changed what it is killing.

    “What would Jesus/Moses/The Buddha Drive? An Inter-Faith Discussion on Religious Environmental Activism”

    I found this to be most interesting. To think any of these people have faith in God is amazing. The anti-capitalist speech sounds like something from communist Russia. The Soviet Union was atheist. So I’m surprised they wanted someone to speak about faith. Furthermore, notice they did not say “What would Muhammad drive?” Interesting that, huh? I always thought their deity was Gaia.

  45. Ah, yes, that evil capitalism the regulated idealism that gave their parents jobs, houses, music, cinema, choices of educations, vacations, trains, planes and automobiles, and, oh, right, Internet and interconnected phones.

    So, essentially, capitalism brought on all that bad stuff that Al Gorey, apparently, can do without, nudge nudge wink wink, and that Sovs, east europe, Africa, India and Chines didn’t have until they turned to the dark side.

    I for one don’t mind if the crazed communist climate hippies want to build their crazy climate communist hippie commune, at least they’d be in one place, but can they build it without capitalism being, and having been, a part of it all? But, anyhow, how many believe they can do it without forcing everyone else into their stinking (pot)holes, I wonder?

  46. Tea Partiers mad? Don’t want their government to take more of what they earn, control their future, decide when, how they will receive healthcare, tired of politicians that cannot say no, think they are entitled to everything, think that the sky will fall if they don’t do something and so they do everything and most of it poorly at a higher cost. Sane people look around, observe what their government spends and ask themselves if it is worth the sacrifice each American has to make.
    What is mad is spending 1/3 more than you bring in every year, then print money to cover the short fall and expect no negative consequences.

  47. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=148669818520369

    According to their Facebook page, 3,116 FB members will be attending, 2,426 may be attending. I clicked “See all” and it only showed me a few. Trying to friend them all would take a while.

    http://act.energyactioncoalition.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=5594

    Says the event will be “This April 1-4th in Washington, DC thousands of young people from across the world will convergence for Power Shift 2011.” Perhaps someone checked the calendar and concluded the 1st might not be the best date.

    http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/powershift11

    At Carnegie-Mellon (my alma mater and one of the universities listed), they said on Jan 26 “Currently, we plan on taking two charter buses down to D.C.” In late February, they said “This year, we will be driving to get there so if any would like to volunteer to drive, please shoot an email and let us know! You WILL be reimbursed for all the gas you use!”

    That was the last update.

    http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/03/09/what-the-press-didnt-tell-you-about-the-largest-youth-movement-in-decades/

    Oh – Powershift 2009 included James Hansen and that snowstorm? I don’t remember their was a name for that event. Oh, Capitol Climate Action. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/02/jim-hansens-newfound-peers-at-the-capitol-climate-action/

    On February 27th-March 1st, 12,000 young leaders from all fifty states, every Canadian province, and about a dozen other nations convened at the Washington D.C. Convention Center for Power Shift 2009, the largest ever gathering of climate and clean energy activists in U.S. history. On Monday, March 2nd, fueled by a fiery passion no snowstorm could chill, thousands stormed Capitol Hill, braving subfreezing temperatures to rally, lobby and even risk arrest in their efforts to ignite a clean and just energy future.

    Hey – only 10,000 this year?

  48. It’s sad that many will wear those green plastic faux hard hats, insulting workers who actually contribute to society.

  49. I expect that there will be a sizable contingent present from San Francisco, Portland and other distant workers’ paradises. Will they have been transported there by “green energy”? If so, I hope they will explain this variety of energy to the rest of us.

  50. John Shade says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:39 pm
    “This is so transparently a piece of what used to be called Madison Avenue manipulation that I would be surprised, and of course dismayed, if large numbers of young people actually turn up.”

    Ya’ don’t know academia. Each and every little college has a Diversity Dean and that dean has many government funded minions to get out the word about Green events. Such events are mostly attended by university groups. However, the dismal economy will most likely put a damper on this one.

  51. Mike McMillan says:
    April 13, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    “Perhaps the other would-be candidates realize that it doesn’t matter where our Prez
    was born. As long as his mother was an American, he is an American. Low standard, I know, but there it is.”

    You are assuming that his mother is who he says she is. The real birth certificate could contain a lot of interesting information. You are also assuming that his alleged mother had not renounced her US citizenship. She was that type, you know, the type attending the Green bash in DC. We really need to know.

  52. Conspiracy theory time; here it goes.

    With the sinister assistance of Big Oil and the dastardly anti-AGW (and polar bear-hating) crowd, Mr Watts diabolically orchestrates the “Power Shift,” a grand sillybugger-fest of The Young and the Unwashed on the surface, but actually a bold Machiavellian scheme to finally drive the stake through the black heart of the mortally wounded “climate change” scam. Bwa-hah-hah-hah!

    The windmill in the logo was the first give-away. As the newest heraldry signifying financial idiocy, shoddy engineering, dismal failure, environmental damage, intrusion, broken promises and crony-capitalism, this whirling slap-in-the-face is guaranteed to enrage the entire political spectrum; the left, the right, the centre … and even the perpetually undecided.

    Then … and this is just too much … we have Lisa Jackson and The Goracle attending! Delicious. Nothing like a sour government apartchik and a discredited gazillionaire to inspire our darling revolutionary youth.

    But wait, there is more! The inevitable partying, hollering and trashing this unsuspecing ueber-educated leisure class of “youth leaders” will indulge in will take place right on the day when most of you stressed, overworked and cleaned-out chumps in the US are still reeling from your last-minute tax filing! For sure, that won’t be very pretty. Bwa-hah-hah-hah!

  53. The late Dr. Dixy Lee Ray (1914 – 1994) making these points in the year 1993:

    The good Dr. Maue and I clashed swords briefly on MM’s site when I mentioned her name in conjunction with Rush Limbaugh who knew her back when …

    .

  54. Focus is on closing down the economy – especially liquid fuels – before providing any alternatives. That effectively means no business = no school, no jobs, and no social security!

  55. eadler says:

    “There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party,”

    From eadler’s comment we can see how today’s socialists would treat those of us who dare to oppose their utopia. This is how the Soviet socialist elite dealt with their critics, declared them mentally ill and forced them in asylums. Soviet psychiatry was no more a science than today’s climate establishment.

  56. Actually, I would like to suggest to the readers that you actually send your teenage kids to this Direct Action Training armed with phone cameras to tape the idiocy, and some nice ironic questions to ask. Make sure they are trained ahead of time about Alinsky Method and the Diamond Tactic:

    http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/diamond_tactic.pdf

    http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

    Knowing this material ahead of time will help them be aware of whats going on at this training seminar, and challenge things.

  57. Why is my last post not going through??

    [Reply: They were in the spam folder. Rescued & posted. ~dbs, mod.]

  58. This protest march is being arranged by the same old tired commie leftist groups who organized the DC A16 protest back in 2000 against the World Bank and IMF. I was a student in DC at the time and I went to the protest with some friends and a few homemade signs with ridiculous slogans such as “USA out of North America”, “Your breasts are oppressing me”, etc. Washington, DC is beautiful in April so that’s normally when they have these huge, silly student rallies.

    These people are no threat to anything or anyone. They are rich liberal college kids going to American University, GW, and Georgetown doing whatever they think is trendy. In a few years they will all be working as interns and lobbyists for big government and big business. It’s a joke really. Ten years ago it was anti-globalization and now it’s all about “climate justice” (whatever that means). This too shall pass!

  59. eadler says:

    April 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I don’t agree with some of what they say, but a lot of their complaints are factual, valid and make sense. They are far from “quite mad”.

    There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party,…

    Nope, eadler, you are completely and totally misinformed. I strongly suggest you get your nose out of the Huffington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times, and leave those lying rags/blogs/stations behind you. You might actually learn some truth about the TEA Party.

  60. I do have an earlier comment on socialism, however my last comment is in response to eadler’s labeling of “Tea Party” members as mentally ill. This is a dangerous way of dealing with dissent, and it has a bad history.

  61. Hi Ryan,
    I hear what you are saying however weren’t many of all a little idealistically left leaning when young. Too many years ago when at university the elderly called us pinko commie wasters as we demonstrated against any capitalist pig that exploited the masses to make money. And how our attitude changed when we grew up and learned to respect the dollar.

  62. Regarding “Power Shift 2011″…

    Yawwwwwwwwwwwnnnn…ZZZZZ.

    “Dr. James Hansen of NASA death trains/coal protesting infamy should like this workshop…”

    Sorry – he and Gavin are too busy generating valuable “climate products” [LOL]…

  63. Holden Magroin says:
    ” …. where Socialism has replaced Capitalism has changed from a wasteland to an environmental paradise.”

    An example would be …. North Korea!!

  64. Daniel H says:
    April 13, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    It’s a joke really. Ten years ago it was anti-globalization and now it’s all about “climate justice” (whatever that means). This too shall pass!
    ===================================================
    Globalization, in the context that I know it to be, has not passed. And, I stand against it. It is more deceptive and evil than the climate issue. Indeed, because of the success the globalization efforts that the pinheads felt emboldened to pursue this current course of action. It is the centralization of governments and issues that give a path to the “utopia” desired by the organizers of this gathering described above.

    Globalization rejects accomplishment through competition and denies the freedom of individualism. I abhor such notions and is one of the focal reasons as to why I engage in the discussion.

  65. I am deeply concerned when people jump on the global warming controversy to promote their own political agendas. It signifies a ideological fervor which undermines any claim to rationality and an inability to remain objective. It makes all their arguments and data open to realistic ad hominem attacks. I know that many left leaning and socially concerned individuals have an objective and skeptical view of the CAGW hypothesis. And many conservatives are adamant believers. It was after all Margaret Thatcher who kick this whole thing off. It is always easy to find some fringe group on the left or right which can be held up and portrayed as representative of a larger political movement. It is stances such as this one which make analyses, which would otherwise be convincing, easy to dismiss as the irrational antagonism of anti science zealots.

  66. The story of the political cuckoo, a cautionary tale for our children:

    Once upon a time the world was threatened by a brooding dark and cruel political beast that flew the red banner as its standard, the people who lived under that banner were bullied and abused and lived in misery and fear, their lives were dull and and grey and hopeless. One day the red banner and all it stood for became unpopular, people saw and understood what the red banner really meant in practice, as the red banner flew over its dominions and subject peoples all people everywhere became aware of what the red banner actually stood for and what it really meant for ordinary people so the people rebelled and tore down the red banner and removed the followers of the red banner by force and the people rejoiced at their freedom.

    The followers of the red banner that had never known first hand the cold hearted cruelty of life under the red banner were bereft, they searched and strived to make their banner acceptable and loved until they hit upon the idea of the political cuckoo methodology. If people distrusted the red banner then why not paint the red banner green? So the reds invaded and took over the green banner from within modifying green theologies and doctrines so that although they appeared green on the surface they were in fact red all the way through. Now the followers of the red banner now fly the green banner but they are the same and hold the same beliefs as before only the colour has change in order to fool the people.

    All of this was highly successful for the followers of the red banner, they enjoyed the trust of those young and vulnerable that the reds desperately needed, although the red banner was now green all the essential ingredients were present like authoritarianism, arrogance, elitism, subjection of the individuals will to the states will and the domination of that state and the unquestioning obedience of the people.

    So the red banner and all it stands for has returned and all that has changed is the colour, from red to green with a new army of followers unable to to see the simple change of colour. The new green is not and never was about saving the planet, its all about the restoration of an ugly and rejected political creed.

  67. Tony K says:
    April 13, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Holden Magroin says:
    ” …. where Socialism has replaced Capitalism has changed from a wasteland to an environmental paradise.”

    An example would be …. North Korea!!

    Yeah, and the Aral Sea. Holden, you’re supposed to say something like /sarcoff after that sentence.

  68. Keep up the good work , Dr. M

    Science will prevail…

    But the hubris makes me mad…this Hitler Youth Conference, notwithstanding.

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  69. A good cure for most of these people would be to spend some time on a communal farm in Cuba where they really do practice green policies – I should stress, of course, that this is not out of choice.

    In these places you get: i) fed a good diet of socialist propoganda, ii) a good salary which could approach as much as $12 per month, iii) occasional electical power – blackouts are the norm, iv) outside toilet facilities (“long drop” type), v) monotonous and insufficient food (rice and beans), but it’s good because meat is only rarely included, vi) travel is discouraged and could cause you to lose your job, vii) housing varies from bad to very bad, viii) free health facilities, but sadly only with medicines if you are a communist party member, ix) almost no consumer goods – and the list goes on.

    I saw enough of the “triumphs of socialism” when conducting mineral exploration in Cuba. It is unbelievable the poverty of mind and pocket this failed philosopy produces.

    Age, experience and guile always beats youth, enthusiasm and gullibility – hence Al Gore and the young greenies referred to in this post.

  70. From their website,
    “only $80 for students for all three days of programming”
    remove programming, insert brainwashing.sarc.
    Sound familiar.

  71. Douglas says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    eadler says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:35 pm
    [-------The history of the idea of global warming is that the scientific objections to the idea of AGW, which arose in the late 1980′s were the spearheaded by right wing think tanks who objected to government regulation. So the politicization of this issue originated with the American political right.]
    —————————————————————————-
    Eadler. What on earth do these two statements mean? Talk about confused disconnected ideas!

    You are displaying your ignorance of history. Read the Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes.

    Here is an article which explains the two sentences I wrote in more detail. The right wing think tanks, financed by the energy industry, employed two ex scientists, turned political ideologues, to use their scientific prestige to discredit the idea that sulfur pollution was a health problem which needed to be regulated, and subsequently turned their efforts to discrediting the idea that GHG’s would cause global warming. This began the political polarization of the science of Climatology, that has become more intense as the centrists are driven out of the Republican Party.

    http://e360.yale.edu/feature/global_warming_deniers_and_their_proven_strategy_of_doubt/2285/


    REPLY:
    “You are displaying your ignorance of history. Read the Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes.”

    Oh puhleeze. That’s not history, just one woman’s interpretation of it, and that woman has an agenda. – Anthony

  72. Dr Maue,

    Thanks for this. The threat of this cult is very grave, and there is far too little awareness, so your help is appreciated.

    The climate con (and all environmentalism today) is a grand diversion. There are no legitimate plans to reduce CO2 concentration because this was never the objective.

    The two objectives are clearly identified:
    1. Denial of energy (for all societies, and excepting the priveleged) (Food and Property Rights to follow)
    2. Wealth confiscation and redistribution

    There is no question what this is. Melding in the Malthusian ethos and Gaia worship seemed to provide the religious cultlike devotion we see. But then I had an epiphany. Marxism is a cult. It is like Smeegol when powerless but morphs into Gollum when power is at hand. America is in terrible danger. And with us would fall the world. This cult is more terrible than anything since the Nazis.

    It isn’t enough to win back the Senate and the White House. From that point, the work will just begin. We must find a way to articulate our benevolent intentions for the environment and the need for all out energy development. A great awakening must happen for all Americans. What you and many of us here know now must become common knowledge.

    Re: The Birth Certificate:

    Can you enter any venue of entertainment without showing your ticket?
    Can you cash a check at your bank without ID?
    Try to get employment at any defense contractor without a Birth Certificate, even in commercial work. Not Happening.

    One simple 10 minute disclosure would bring that issue to immediate conclusion, yet millions are spent to avoid it?
    (I read that) his mother was not old enough to meet the age requirements to automatically convey citizenship in the event he was born overseas. It may be a technicality, but might explain how he could have been unable to obtain documentation of citizenship. Last, there are multiple SSN’s associated with his financial activities. So called “Birthers” aren’t extremists at all. They’re simply following Reagan’s advice to “Trust, but verify”.

  73. The UK tried Socialism for the last 13 years and all i got for it was a 1 trillion pound debt, I think it brakes down to about 300,000 pounds for each tax paying person, not bad I could buy a couple of house’s.

    And the best quote i’ve seen was form the posts round here, ‘The trouble with socialism is that they always run out of other peoples money’.

    I do have one big advantage though, as i live in the UK i can give up paying all taxes and simply go on the dole and be handed free money, it’s an option when my energy bills become unpayable.

  74. James Sexton says:
    April 13, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Globalization, in the context that I know it to be, has not passed. And, I stand against it. It is more deceptive and evil than the climate issue. Indeed, because of the success the globalization efforts that the pinheads felt emboldened to pursue this current course of action. It is the centralization of governments and issues that give a path to the “utopia” desired by the organizers of this gathering described above.

    What you describe sounds more like internationalism or multilateralism. My understanding of the term globalization is that it deals with the free movement of goods and services across borders. It’s about commerce and free trade and opening up new markets. Socialists are anti-globalization by nature since they seek to severely curtail, control, and/or abolish free trade and commerce.

  75. Why is it that these “progressives,” who are supposedly calling for a “color-blind society,” are always so obsessed with the color of the skin? Their race-centered attitude toward most of the problems in life is simply sickening.

    P.S. Native Americans came to America from Siberia (killing off the previous population of the same America). I was born and grew up in Siberia. Doesn’t it make me a Pre-Native American? Where is my six-figure check with the Statue of Liberty on it?

  76. I would say let them have their day – then organise an event to promote reality. Let us see how they would react to such a show of the sceptical side of the debate. I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be an outcry!
    As an aside – the picture shows the wearing of green plastic helmets, do they not know that plastic is a derivative of oil? To me this shows the ignorant nature of the organisers and participants.

  77. “and demand global warming adherence as a litmus test for elected office.”

    I thought the constitution forbad religious tests for office?

  78. Exactly, there are plenty of Communist/Socialist/Third World rat holes left that these people could easily flee too. But as we know it is not about living the life, which so few of them do, it’s about forcing others to do their will. Period. I’m still waiting for Robert Redford to move to France as he promised to do if Bush won his second term.

    I’d be willing to trade, even up, American Watermelons for Cubans who would want to defect. We should make this offer to Hollywood and Harvard and see how many takers they get.

    Peter Miller says:
    April 13, 2011 at 11:33 pm
    A good cure for most of these people would be to spend some time on a communal farm in Cuba where they really do practice green policies – I should stress, of course, that this is not out of choice.

  79. This is straight from the play book, attack, defame, slander and lie about your opponent at every opportunity. The Democrats have been doing it just as well as Pravda and Goebbels since the Republicans stopped playing nice and nominated Barry Goldwater. The Tea Party is about responsible spending, first and foremost, and it pisses the left off to no ends that they carried the last election and are now forcing Obama and the Democrats to bend to popular will.

    Also now note how the press is all out on the Party line that now deficit spending and a huge national debt is nothing to worry about after railing on Bush for 8 years about the exact same thing. Democratic political operatives are hypocrites and liars and the press is their complicit band of useful idiots. I read the NYT every day for my job and the paper is so far left, 99% of the time, it is unbelievable. And the way the stories are written, the photos used, pure propoganda, subtle but insidious. Espeically in covering the Middle East, but that’s a whole different ball of wax.

  80. Maybe the Indians, Brazilians, Indonesians, and Chinese will be so economically successful that these kids will shut up when they can’t find jobs or loans for more school.

  81. So Lisa Jackson, Al Gore, and others who are clearly associated with the Democratic party are not only advocating that we spend the children’s future earnings, but also that they should forgo achievement and success through hard work and dedication to promote a socialist-communist idealism that is even more destructive to their futures. This is nothing short of an evil attempt to hijack our children’s future. Unfortunately, I think that our kids are smarter and western culture is going to oppose them on every front. Those who do attach their futures to these people will sometime in the near future find that they have wasted their youth on unenterprising failures. While the green socialist machine scurries to try and gain favor with the youth by banging their drums and clanging their gongs, the slow methodical time tested dedication to truth and justice will grind away at their flanks until they are left with nothing to look at but their face in the mirror.
    Keep the faith and keep up the pressure on these goons.

  82. According to the latest reports marijuana production uses 1 percent of the electricity produced in the USA and thereby significantly contributes to global warming.

    Will these kids give up weed to save the planet?

    Naahh … didn’t think so.

  83. The problem is authoritarianism rather than the liberal/conservative split. Both major US parties have a problem with it. Conservatives want to regulate things gambling, voting rights, abortions, drug use, etc. Liberals want to regulate emissions, health, businesses, gun ownership, etc. They both try to limit free speech when it is against their beliefs. Just two sides of the same coin.

  84. Shevva,
    That quote is attributed to Winston Churchill. Look him up, he was once one of your (the UK’s) renowned (and hated) leaders. He has lots of good quotes you can do with a simple Google search.

  85. You guys are pathetic. Everything you don’t like is socialist. This blog is so far-right and not does even come close to representing the mainstream opinions of Americans. I’m a centrist and I support clean energy. Fossil fuels get 12 times the subsidies that renewables get, 12 times! I say reduce fossil subsidies to a 6th of that, double investment in greentech and cut the rest of the spending. That’s an entirely reasonable approach to take. It cuts spending to please the Right and it supports the new energy economy to please the Left.

    The only reason this likely won’t work is because Republican/Blue Dog Democratic politicians are in bed with the fossil industry. Republicans are harping on spending cuts, but won’t touch fossil subsidies. This negates all of their arguments in favor of cutting spending and shows that they are blatant hypocrites.

    This is NOT a science blog, it’s a right-wing political blog and it’s quite obvious.

  86. Brian,

    This isn’t a ‘right wing’ site, and it is not a political blog. There are constant comments here from folks left of center who are outraged at the perversion of science by corrupt scientists.

    You might think about where you’re coming from.

  87. @Brian

    And you’re being hypocritical just calling out conservatives. Both sides are hypocritical when it meets their ends. I’m all for cutting fossil fuel subsidies, but don’t believe we can guarantee that the cash would then go to energy research. It would just be used for someone’s pork project. Also, if you do the math, cutting fossil fuel subsidies will not make wind or solar any more competitive. Even with their existing subsidies which should also be eliminated.

  88. Brian, very few people who frequent this blog are against clean energy just for the sake of being against clean energy. Most if not all here are proponents of nuclear energy, hydroelectric energy, geothermal energy. The problem is that the defacto “Clean Energy” as the greens define it is only wind and solar which are terribly inefficient by any measuere in relation to fossil fuel. I would love to see all energy subsidies removed and let the free market and free flow of investment determine the winners. Fossils rule the day becuase they work and they are cheap and despite hysterical claims to the contrary, there is still a lot of it around. It will run out some day, provided we can’t develop affordable synthetics (which I think we can) but solar and wind are not the answer to the base load requirements of a modern nation. They can be part, but barring some fundamental revolution in efficiency and storage capacity, they will not be a major part, of the solution.

  89. It’s pathetically ironic that well-meaning young people are being manipulated through this type of “movement” by the Svengalis of international finance.

  90. “Is it too much to dream of an America where citizens are in charge of our energy decisions, not big polluters? We don’t think so.”

    The big polluters should make a decision and cut off all these people from services. Start with Al Gore and James Hansen and Lisa jackson. Then get every name from those attending and refuse to sell them gas and electricity. After all these people are trying to put them out of business, why do business from them.

  91. Scott B, April 14, 2011 at 7:26 am:

    The problem is authoritarianism rather than the liberal/conservative split. …

    You will find that most who side with the ‘conservative’ side are actually libertarians at heart; do you know why that is?

    .

  92. @Pull My Finger “The problem is that the defacto “Clean Energy” as the greens define it is only wind and solar…”

    That is very incorrect. “Greens” consider geothermal, tidal, kinetic, biofuel, and many still consider nuclear as “Clean Energy.” Wind and solar just happen to be very popular and promising technologies. The research and development being done for solar is pretty incredible. It’s an exciting time for greentech in general.

  93. Anthony Watts said,

    REPLY: “You are displaying your ignorance of history. Read the Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes.”

    Oh puhleeze. That’s not history, just one woman’s interpretation of it, and that woman has an agenda. – Anthony
    I suspect that you are dismissing it because you have the opposite political viewpoint, not because of any evidence you have that her facts are wrong.

    [snip - leave the "denying" part out and rewrite it, I really get tired of your constant denigration of others using that term. Just stop it. Next time you use the term or any variation its strike #3 for you. - Anthony]

  94. Rather than depositing some sort of blanket political statement about this blog, why don’t you respond to some of the specific content found in the posted article. For instance, if it’s truly just a march for climate change, why are so many topics in the conference focused on “social justice” (i.e., forced wealth redistribution), anti-capitalism, and racism.

    If you truly are a centrist, as you claim, it’s time you took your blinders off. You also might experiment with citing some sources when throwing out specific numbers like Fossil fuels get 12 times the subsidies that renewables get, 12 times! Especially when throwing in exclamation points willy nilly.

  95. Brian,

    Natural gas used to be promoted by the enviro-lobby as “clean energy” when it provided one twentieth of the power it provides today. That was only back in 2002. But now natural gas is being demonized.

    If you try to look at what’s happening objectively, you will begin to understand that the Greens’ eco-lobby is attacking Western civilization, not certain types of energy. “Environmentalism” is only a means to that end, and the lure of the redistribution of the West’s wealth is used to buy UN-member votes.

    The Green rank-and-file chumps can’t see the forest for the trees. If they’re successful, they’ll never understand how or why they ended up in the gulag.

  96. #
    #
    PRD says:
    April 14, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Shevva,
    That quote is attributed to Winston Churchill. Look him up, he was once one of your (the UK’s) renowned (and hated) leaders. He has lots of good quotes you can do with a simple Google search.

    Cheers PRD learn something new every day History wasn’t my thing at school double science, math’s the only subjects i could be bothered with.

  97. “the Greens’ eco-lobby is attacking Western civilization, not certain types of energy. “Environmentalism” is only a means to that end, and the lure of the redistribution of the West’s wealth is used to buy UN-member votes.”

    Natural gas is likely likely cleaner than coal/oil, but it still has quite a footprint.
    So you’re suggesting that environmentalists don’t really care about the health of people and our ecosystems, they just want to manipulate the UN?
    That sounds like a conspiracy theory.

    “Attacking Western civilization”? That’s a bit much. :)

  98. Are ya’ll really bagging on a bunch of young people who are pushing for a better future?
    Come on guys . . . chill out a little. You’re like hyenas.

    REPLY: I suggest you attend, then with that experience there, and the experience here, tell us who better fits that definition. – Anthony

  99. Is it a coincidence that if you combine green from the environmental movement with the red of communism, that you wind up with the brown of fascism?

  100. Brian said:
    “Fossil fuels get 12 times the subsidies that renewables get, 12 times! I say reduce fossil subsidies to a 6th of that, double investment in greentech and cut the rest of the spending.”

    Brian,
    It’s a matter of scale. I don’t have the data on hand, but if the dollars per unit of energy is used, your 12x figure becomes, shall we say, ridiculous?

  101. Niko says:
    April 14, 2011 at 3:43 pm
    “Are ya’ll really bagging on a bunch of young people who are pushing for a better future? Come on guys . . . chill out a little. You’re like hyenas.”

    ===========================

    That is a big fat red herring, Niko.

    No fool [or hyena....which by the way is another red herring within a red herring...given that hyenas do what they do] would ever argue that we don’t want a better future for our children.

    But many “youth movements” were started with good intentions…and then they quickly degraded to well….unspeakable horrors. [I don't need to show you any examples...they are front and center in human history to date.]

    Not that this one is the same, however.

    But the similarity is there and both foundations are fatally flawed.

    Don’t resort to lame smokescreens, dude.

    We are not “bagging the young people for wanting a better future.”

    Nonsense.

    We are bagging the twisted ideological flaw behind it!

    Come to think of it, it “bags” itself.

    Groupthink Disorder is going to kill our species altogether if we are not careful…you know survival of the fittest.

    You can believe whatever you want, Niko, but don’t conflate the issues here.

    Everyone wants a better world.

    But there are many forces at work that would take advantage of that ideal.

    So, watch out!

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  102. Shevva and PRD;
    Nope.
    Snopes has the original, from Margaret Thatcher in Question Period in Parliament:

    Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money.

  103. eadler says:
    April 14, 2011 at 1:03 am
    Douglas says:
    April 13, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    [You are displaying your ignorance of history. Read the Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes.

    Here is an article which explains the two sentences I wrote in more detail. The right wing think tanks, financed by the energy industry, employed two ex scientists, turned political ideologues, to use their scientific prestige to discredit the idea that sulfur pollution was a health problem which needed to be regulated, and subsequently turned their efforts to discrediting the idea that GHG’s would cause global warming. This began the political polarization of the science of Climatology, that has become more intense as the centrists are driven out of the Republican Party.]
    —————————————————————–
    Eadler. Like I said –Talk about confused disconnected ideas!

    Douglas

  104. Anthony said,
    [snip - leave the "denying" part out and rewrite it, I really get tired of your constant denigration of others using that term. Just stop it. Next time you use the term or any variation its strike #3 for you. - Anthony]
    The facts are that the Marshall Institute, founded by Nierenberg, Seitz and Jastrow,in the late 1980’s, opposed all government regulation on ideological grounds. They believed in free markets. In order to fight regulation of cigarettes, sulfate pollution of the air, CFC’s and emission of greenhouse gases, they adopted the tactic of disputing the science, rather than making the case for free market ideology, which they couldn’t win with the general public. They eventually lost the battle on cigarettes, sulfate pollution and CFC’s as action was taken on all 3. The free market solution of cap and trade was used successfully to fix sulfate pollution in the US.

    The same right wing think tanks are still battling efforts to reduce greenhouse gase emissions, and have enlisted the forces of like minded scientists with a right wing conservative philosophy. Their propaganda to date has been successful in this area, and they have persuaded a lot of political conservatives that AGW is not happening. Even the self styled Republican maverick, John McCain has changed his position on AGW as a result of political pressure from the Republican right.

    Kerry Emanual who is a real scientist and a Republican, is appalled by the politicization of the science, and won’t vote for any politician who doesn’t accept the scientific consensus that humans are changing the climate of the planet in a harmful way. Unfortunately I can’t quote what he says directly, because he uses the dreaded D-word.

  105. eadler says:

    “The same right wing think tanks are still battling efforts to reduce greenhouse gase emissions, and have enlisted the forces of like minded scientists with a right wing conservative philosophy. Their propaganda to date has been successful in this area, and they have persuaded a lot of political conservatives that AGW is not happening. ”

    Aside from the demonstrable fact that there is zero evidence that AGW is happening, Adler accuses his un-named “right wing think tanks” of “propaganda.” That is pure projection.

    What Adler refers to as ‘right wing’ is simply the original Constitution and Bill of Rights. Compare that with the Leftist totalitarian Green dictator wannabes, and it becomes clear that “right wing” = those believing in the U.S. Constitution. That terrifies the dispicable Left, which is trying to destroy everything that has made America great.

    Reverting to the original U.S. Constitution would cure about 99.8% of everything that has gone wrong in this great country. That explains why Adler is attempting to demonize the Constitutional principles that have made our country such a tremendous success. Adler advocates the policies of socialistic failure, but it is an indisputable fact that the more socialist any country is, the worse off its citizens are. You can start with comparing North Korea vs South Korea.

    The choice is green totalitarianism, or freedom. Take your pick.

  106. You seem to have your own ideologies and plenty of bitterness towards a movement in favor of a cleaner and more sustainable world. Give it a rest already.
    I think clean energy has done a lot to get young people excited about science/technology. Greentech and web development seem to be the hottest fields right now. I commend them for rallying around something they feel strongly about.

  107. What is perhaps ironic here is many if not most of the kids and adults can attribute their quality of life and standard of living to capitalism. What is it they say about biting the hand that feeds you? Ignorance is not bliss.

  108. @Smokey “The choice is green totalitarianism, or freedom. Take your pick.”

    not an intelligent statement.

  109. alan says:
    April 13, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    eadler says:

    “There are however a group of people in US politics who are quite and totally mad – the tea party,”

    From eadler’s comment we can see how today’s socialists would treat those of us who dare to oppose their utopia. This is how the Soviet socialist elite dealt with their critics, declared them mentally ill and forced them in asylums. Soviet psychiatry was no more a science than today’s climate establishment.

    Hmm. You left out the part of my post where I quote Douglas, who called the Socialist protesters “mad quite mad”. Shouldn’t he be in line for some criticism from you also? Could it be that the principle of calling people mad to stigmatize them is not really a problem in your mind? It only seems to be wrong to you, if you agree with the people being called mad.

  110. Sorry about an error of attribution in my last post. It was Rob who said “mad quite mad”, not Douglas.

  111. [snip, eadler you know better than to claim somebody is "certifiably mad" without having anything to back it up other than your emotions. Show us the certificate, otherwise refrain. - Anthony]

  112. Smokey says:
    April 15, 2011 at 5:28 am

    Reverting to the original U.S. Constitution would cure about 99.8% of everything that has gone wrong in this great country. That explains why Adler is attempting to demonize the Constitutional principles that have made our country such a tremendous success. Adler advocates the policies of socialistic failure, but it is an indisputable fact that the more socialist any country is, the worse off its citizens are. You can start with comparing North Korea vs South Korea.

    The choice is green totalitarianism, or freedom. Take your pick.

    Spare us your false dichotomy.

    The US Constitution is a flexible document. In particular the Interstate Commerce Clause has been interpreted to allow much of what you decry – environmental regulation, cap and trade for sulfate pollution. There is also the general welfare clause. It seems that you and the other right wingers, including the Tea Party, believe falsely, either that these clauses are not really in the constitution, or don’t mean what they say.

  113. eadler says:
    April 15, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    [snip, eadler you know better than to claim somebody is "certifiably mad" without having anything to back it up other than your emotions. Show us the certificate, otherwise refrain. - Anthony]

    [Snip. Arguing with Anthony's very reasonable decision is a waste of everyone's time. ~dbs, mod.]

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