By Steve Goddard
From the Declining Spring Snowpack Department:
Mammoth Mountain, California June 2, 2010
State % of Average Snowpack ----------- ------------ NEVADA 186 CALIFORNIA 176 OREGON 154 IDAHO 129 WYOMING 116 MONTANA 114 WASHINGTON 112 UTAH 107 ALASKA 79 COLORADO 54 NEW MEXICO 36 ARIZONA 9
A few years ago, our friends at Real Climate made this not very insightful post :
Has Pacific Northwest snowpack declined? Yes.
Well, actually – no. Oregon State Climatologist George Taylor lost his job over this issue. He dared to question the Global Warming Church Orthodoxy.
George Taylor on Global Warming.
by Gienie Assink Tuesday, October 16. 2007
By: Suzanne Penegor
Oregon State Climatologist George Taylor returned to the Lane County Rubicon Society on Sept. 27th to speak as a private citizen regarding global warming issues. The political climate for Taylor has been heated since he disagreed with Gov. Kulongoski by refusing to toe the “politically correct” political line.
Taylor said he still expects the governor to take away his title of state climatologist because of a slight disagreement on global warming issues. When Kulongoski developed the Oregon Strategy for Greenhouse Gas Reductions recently, he didn’t even ask for Taylor’s input.
Taylor discussed the history of climate cycles and how, for example, Oregon’s climate was actually much warmer in the 1930s than they are today. Also in the early 1800s there were 2 years where we had no summers in the US. Taylor said World War II enhanced a temperature increase and discussed how cities’ temperatures tend to be higher than rural areas due to human development. Taylor noted that where measurements are taken can affect the temperatures and the data we use to determine climate changes.
Taylor said the greenhouse effect is invisible and essential to life on Earth. He said 90% of it is water vapor and then the rest of it is methane and carbon dioxide.
Taylor noted that the tropical pacific patterns, the El Nino and La Nina events, and the impact they have on global temperatures overall. He said humans have some impact, but not nearly as much as sunspot activity or natural disturbances like volcanic activity over time.
Taylor went on to say that those who espouse the global warming line often point to the snowpack levels. He said a Washington climatologist was fired over climate issues that were not politically correct regarding snowpack levels and left sided concerns. Taylor said there are cyclical periods of La Nina and El Nino which effect snowpack levels.
He said the debate over sea level changes is an ongoing debate over whether the current changes are steady and reliable trends. He also mentioned how it is estimated that at the current rate, the global sea level may rise 8 to 17 inches per 100 years.
Moreover, heating the ocean takes a considerable amount of time. He said in the 1940s there was also an increase in arctic temperatures. And in the 1970s the big concern in the media was the possibility of another ice age or global cooling.
Taylor goes on to say scientists believe that in 2020 the global climate could return to a cooler period as sunspot activity is expected to change.
Taylor addressed the issue of whether the glaciers, sharing how they are shrinking due to human impact. He said there was much melting of the glaciers before 1950 and the SUV theory was a bit off. Taylor said surface temperatures may not be the best measure of climate change anyway, particularly on where the measurements are taken.
It was noted that the Montreal Protocol banned the use of human-made compounds that were suspected of damaging the ozone layer; however, no apparent change has occurred since that Protocol was created, so it begs the question of whether humans really impact the ozone layer as scientists predicted.
Taylor is a published author of several books regarding Oregon’s climate history.
Well, Arizona has gone from the top of the list to the bottom. Oh well. Just having a good snow season was exciting.
The upper Colorado Basin is not having great year… but.. not a really bad on either.
http://snowpack.water-data.com/uppercolorado/index.php
Back in 2007 some individuals were shouting unrecoverable doomsday for the lakes.
Smart man
“He said humans have some impact”
Only if you trick people by using obscure terms, like tons.
When you use percentages……they just gawk at you and look dumb struck.
Then when you ask them what effect they think it would have if – by some miracle – we could reduce that man made percentage by even half, which is still impossible – their eyes roll back in their heads…………..
Taylor must be nuts to talk like that in the Pacific Northwest and Oregon specifically.
He’s my hero of the week.
Actually the Gov. didn’t really go after Mr. Taylor until after he went onto the areas largest radio show (Lars Larson) which covers most of Oregon and southern Washington to basically say AGW is hogwash. It was very shortly after that radio interview that he was no longer the Oregon state climatologist, a rather pro AGW person was made the official state climatologist.
It’s a shame that politics does not have room for grey, only black and white. I guess that is the result of living in a sound bite world where the nuances of issues lose you your audience’s attention in a heartbeat.
The good Governor has been listening to the wrong folk.
I live in Western Colorado, we have had a very wet, cold spring. In many ways its like the article of a week ago about the ice pack getting smaller in surface area but deeper in thickness… We still have snow in places that should be melted, and the water is just now really starting to come off the mountains. Our largest resevoirs here are full, and releasing huge amounts of water to “naturalize” the rivers. We are just now starting to see warm temps, and while I know that weather doesn’t make climate, I am ready for some global warming here.
Bit OT, but check this out…
“We planted it in record pace and it could very well be harvested earlier than farmers have picked corn in many years,” Mowers says.
Already, there are reports of Iowa grain elevators making plans for very busy harvest activity in late August/early September.
So, what would a bumper crop and early harvest mean for crop prices? Warning: The answer may be more digestible for end-users versus producers.
Early end-user buying
Let’s first take a look at what the futures market could look like under an early harvest, big crops scenario.
The December futures contract would no longer be the new-crop month. Instead, September would become the new-crop month.
“The bottom line, it’s possible you are looking at a high yield, high test-weight crop in 2010 that the 2009 crop lacked. This means end-users will be looking to get this years crop in-hand early. As a result, we will feel harvest pressure earlier than normal,” says Joe Victor, Allendale Inc.
http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml;jsessionid=TIBILLPKRKG54CQCEASB5VQ?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/1275684340274.xml
I thought we were supposed to have all this drought and crop failure by now?
USDA: Farmers making big planting strides
Progress report
http://www.usda.gov/nass/PUBS/TODAYRPT/prog2310.txt
…..But, the numbers don’t tell the whole story. There’s a lot more variability in planting progress than what USDA reported Tuesday, farmers say. “Crop conditions vary a lot around here as well. Some of us were able to get corn in around the 20th of April and that corn looks good for the most part. Corn that was planted after the rains started setting in seem a little stunted,” says Agriculture.com Marketing Talk member BKsandFarmer. “I was hoping it would stay dry another day so I could replant some bean acres flooded out a couple weeks ago, but it’s raining now. If the weather pattern stays the same, it may be a challenge to spray this year. Like most guys, I won’t curse the rain just yet.”
Replanting soybeans is also on Marketing Talk member jdmcfarm1’s schedule after he had 600 acres get nipped by frost and flooded out. “Unless they were planted way too early, the cold and wet of early May destroyed them here,” he says….
http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml;jsessionid=QEYIJK3BT0MYECQCEASB5VQ?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/1275425761013.xml
What a difference a week makes… East of the big muddy Mississippi River the corn & beans looked a might pekkish but now they look pretty darn good despite all the cold, rain and mud.
Looks like a very bountiful year for GMO’s for the American watermelon and beermelon factory!
This is all old news. George Taylor stepped down from the University post shorlty after and I’ve not heard from him since.
IMHO, the Accumulated Precipitation Percent of Average is more relevant: ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/snow/update/ws.txt
Time for the separation of Science and State.
Joe Romm on Climateprogress said the droughts would become permanent. Hot and dry from now on.
Cold and wet. The Gore flakes are with us.
http://climateprogress.org/2009/01/26/noaa-climate-change-irreversible-1000-years-drought-dust-bowls/
It looks like he was wrong. The southwest is not a permanent desert.
CA statewide snowpack is 215% of normal
N CA snowpack is 387% of normal
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/sweq.action
… and before you start huffing and puffing about how it has been a long, cold, winter (it has been) which has delayed the snowmelt … please note that the States reservoirs are wayyyyy above normal …
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/rescond.pdf
And yet … overpaid government bureaucrats INSIST that CA is still suffering from a “drought” …
http://www.water.ca.gov/drought/
Who are these people ? And what is their political agenda ?
“% of Average Snowpack” is unclear without further “digging.” You probably have the answer at your fingertip. Are you referring to the average snowpack for this date or the average maximum snowpack for the season? Given the low figures for the southern states like AZ, I’d expect the latter.
I didn’t read the George Taylor article closely, my apologies if the answer is in that text.
Snowpack is real. Global “temperature” is not.
Are there data for the integral of snowpack (area) and days (time) for the last few winters?
I hope George Taylor is independently wealthy or can make a decent living off his books and talks. You are correct Bruce, he is a hero and points out why there is a “consensus”….. Toe the line or get fired! That is pretty sad to see in the USA.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand how the table and bar graph are related to the detailed snow-precipitation table (“leaderboard”). Or is there supposed to be some relationship?
From the BBC , with no mention of MMGW.
Skiing could take place at the CairnGorm Mountain resort at midsummer for the first time in living memory.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/10238296.stm
Taylor gives a good talk on climate here
I like his style. Of course, the Warmistas despise him.
the snow? it’s just climate
“Darrin says:
June 5, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Actually the Gov. didn’t really go after Mr. Taylor until after he went onto the areas largest radio show (Lars Larson) which covers most of Oregon and southern Washington to basically say AGW is hogwash”
Compared to a NASA employee who has been arrested for demonstrating.
Could some please send that snow to the south east US because it has been a very hot May and June is starting out hot too. We can thank La Nina for that. La Nina makes the south east US hot and dry because the jet stream stays north most of the summer and a huge blocking high pressure camps out over us. Air conditioning is the best thing that has ever been invented. Please send us some snow.
The only positive is that in North Carolina, where I live, the chances of a hurricane is less. Florida and the Gulf coast area, not so much.
Lots of snow down here under too. Check out the depth of May snow the last two years compared with the other years since 2000. More snow forecasted for the next three days with heavy snow falling in Central Otago where moist air from the Tasman Sea mixes with a cold airstream from the South. Yipee for skiers!
http://www.nzski.com/report.jsp?site=mthutt
From the snow not climate department.
Ric,
It is percent of snow water equivalent for June 1. Most places in Arizona normally have no snow in June, so the 0% numbers are probably bogus and drag down the real percentage.
“Air conditioning is the best thing that has ever been invented.”
If it weren’t for Mr. Carrier, Florida would still have a population of only 2 million
Ah but … but … but … isn’t this the warmest year on record????
Hopefully the California drought cycle will revert to a wetter period.
84% of the Shasta/Trinity No. Calif. snowpack water content is still ‘up there’.
I can look out my freaking window and see it glimmering at 7-8000′ (when there aren’t clouds dumping on it).
387% of normal for June 1st.
If, by some strange turn of events, we don’t get around to some summer weather (heaven forbid), it won’t be melting. Next winter will dump more on top of it. And that’s how we grow glaciers.
Let me rephrase that so it’s perfectly clear:
84% of Trinity/Shasta N. Calif snowpack water content from April 1st is still ‘up there’.
16% of the April 1st snowpack water content has made it to the reservoirs.
Shasta is FULL up to it’s eyeballs.
Trinity is 65%.
This week on the news, it was reported that Shasta Reservoir is preparing to dump 20,000 cfs when melt gets underway.
So, this rigamarole about ‘drought’ is a cute technicality, as the reservoirs are behind for this date.
Truth be told, the melt is delayed due to a very much colder Spring.
Prepare to be assimilated.
The drought in California. Last couple of years, they stopped flow of water for agricultural irrigation. It seems the Delta Smelt was more important. The irrigation interference by a judge is the big issue.
You should be in Wallowa County right now. We have all that melted global warming carving out new fishing holes and river beds into our little valley. Funny thing about this. All the buildings put up before the 50’s are up away from the rivers and swamp areas. All the buildings put up after are right next to…or are in…the river beds and swamp lands. hmmmm. To really rub it in, many of the buildings put up away from the rivers were put up during one of the driest decades in the county. 2nd verse of hmmmmm. The Snake is now on the rise so the Columbia will be next. But I don’t expect it to be as bad as 76 or 96. 3rd verse of hmmmmm. This is 20 some odd years later.
This late in the season snow pack measurements are very difficult to make sense of, as it is essentially impossible to make useful measurements when we get into the spring thaw cycle and snow depths get very shallow.
This paper gives a look at both snow pack and water supply forecasts based on the seasons measurements. Note that they state the snow conditions are quite typical for a typical El Nino pattern.
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/downloads/wsf/201005wsfwww.pdf
Seasonal water supply in this part of the country is highly variable year to year so small percentage variations from “average” mean very little. Annual precipitation in Colorado near Denver for instance averages near 15 inches per year but during hard drought conditions can go as low as 7 inches per year. The major front range cities have sufficient reservoir storage for water to cope with that degree of variability, even if the low precipitation cycles run for 2 – 3 years, although we get into watering restrictions so those who are not bright enough to realize we live in a near desert climate will not waste too much water doing things like washing sidewalks with a garden hose, and only watering every other day for limited durations.
Larry
Larry
In Oz its cold but no snow – except from snow machines. East coast is copping a lot of rain.
Has Pacific Northwest snowpack declined? Yes.
If you want global warming propaganda go to RealClimate.
If you want to see watt’s really going on with climate go to Watt’sUpWithThat.
Taylor seems to have set himself up as president of Applied Climate Services.
http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2010/02/10/george-taylor-on-climate-change/
But there is not much info:
http://www.manta.com/c/mtm13s6/applied-climate-services-llc
You can see there is more snow on the ground in the Northern Hemisphere today than on the same day in 1980:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=04&fy=1980&sm=06&sd=04&sy=2010
and in 1990:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=04&fy=1990&sm=06&sd=04&sy=2010
and in 2000:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=04&fy=2000&sm=06&sd=04&sy=2010
The earth is cooling. It is not warming. Global warming predictions are failing.
juanslayton
The graph and table contain the snowtel data from June 1. It is no longer June 1, and the data has of course changed.
stevengoddard says:
June 5, 2010 at 7:23 pm
While it is June 5th now, not much has changed.
Same old cloudy weather in TrinitySylvania Alps and the rest of the high country in N. Calif.
Here in the Blue Mountains of southeastern Washington State we can still see the remains of snow on ridges above 4000 feet elevation, and the strawberries grown in these mountain valleys are 1 month behind – we will not be harvesting our local strawberries until the first of July.
George is around and active.
Here’s the scoop on the snow pack episode.
http://www.sustainableoregon.com/nwsnow.html
The Phil Mote is the same one who is now the Oregon Climate guru. He recently apologized for getting political and sending out a political email from his state office.
http://theoregonpolitico.com/blog/2010/06/01/university-e-mail-chain-creates-climate-controversy/
Willie Soon is now calling for Mote to resign.
It is simply unacceptable to have phil mote running his own personal brand of
“climate justice” under tax-payer funded money from his office while taking
such deliberate attacks on Art Robinson as a candidate to the US House of Representatives …
his apology needs to come with actual punishment … words are no longer enough in his case (considering the history
of exaggerations and activism from him completely outside of the realm of his office for “climate science”)
w
George Taylor is my good friend, so I hope this update is taken as it should be — completely biased.
GT is doing fine, has an excellent little company, Applied Climate Services, and is probably the world’s foremost expert on PMP, prediction of maximum precipitation. PMP involves the use of rainfall and snow records, complex mapping, and high-level statistics to predict 100-year or other extreme precipitation events. That information (modeling) is useful to watershed managers such as the Corps of Engineers who build and maintain flood control structures (dams, levees, etc.).
He left OSU of his own accord, on his own terms, taking early retirement. It could be said that he was forced out by the Governor and the Dept. Chair, and that is partially true IMHO, but the terms suited George, and he has done very well since.
The turmoil that led to the parting was not due to a radio interview but to a well-publicized debate hosted by Oregon Chapter of the American Meteorological Society in Portland in January 2007. See The Great State Climate Debate:
http://www.sosforests.com/?p=455
George Taylor “debated” Phil Mote of Univ. Washington. The debate was more of a discussion, and both men were polite and gracious. But because political types had declared the climate debate over, the event drew considerable media attention.
And George, to put it frankly if ungraciously, cleaned Phil’s clock. George Taylor is so charmingly laidback and kindhearted that everyone who knows him well just loves him. And he is super-smart and knows his subject backwards and forwards. At one point in the evening the two debaters high-fived each other, and at another had their arms on each others’ shoulders in mutual admiration. Part of the reason George won the debate is that he has such a winning personality.
The other is that his scientific arguments were stronger. Taylor agreed with Mote that a small global temperature increase has occurred in the last 100 years. Taylor disagreed that human activities were the primary drivers behind it. He backed his assertions up with numerous technical slides. The audience was composed of smart people, too, who knew the subject well, and the general tone afterwards was “poor Phil, he lost.”
That did not sit well with the political types (the Governor, the Dept. Chair) who have a great deal of political capital invested in global warming alarmism. The Gov popped his cork to a reporter, saying “George Taylor is not my climatologist,” and the reporter reported it. The Gov (Ted Taxandgougeme) was forced to recant, but privately made a huge stink with the Dept. Chair (Nimrod Weaner), who was consumed by issues of funding (and we all know what draws in the funding — it ain’t climate skepticism).
So George gracefully took a big departure check, and a fat pension, and set up his own company doing his specialty, and has grow rich if not famous. He is a stellar human being, a leader in his church, a family man with a wonderful family, and is much beloved in the community for his character, charity, and compassion — climate issues aside.
The Goober subsequently made Phil Mote head of his newly created Oregon Climate Change Research Institute, where poor Phil has continued to make a fool of himself (speaking charitably). Dr. Weaner has moved on and is forgotten.
Do not mourn for George. He is happy and healthy. He spoke at one or two of the Heartland conferences, but I think he skipped the last one. He is still involved in meteorology, still writing an occasional column for the local paper, and glad to be doing excellent and profitable science out of the limelight.
As for snowpack, George was right, Phil was wrong. It has not declined. See for instance:
http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2008/11/21/no-trend-in-idaho-snowpack-over-the-last-75-years/
http://www.oregonlive.com/weather/
Go to this site, scroll down and read the headlines. It has been wet and miserable here in the Portland area.
One more thing, I just returned from a trip, drove I84 from Idaho to Portland. Here is a first hand report on the state of our rivers. Snake-muddy, John Day-muddy, Deschutes-muddy, Umatilla-muddy, Grande Rhonde- muddy, Willamette-muddy, Clackamas-muddy, the whole damn state is muddy.
You get a drought in California because research like this is INTENTIONALLY buried:
http://fresnobeehive.com/news/2010/05/heres_the_glibert_study_read_i.html#comments
http://fresnobeehive.com/news/glibert-reviews-in-fisheries-sci-pre-publication-copy.pdf
My comments and cliff notes of the study in the first link.
Bottom line is I’d LOVE to see this BLOG chew some Enviro-Nut backside in this Water-Gate fraud that has been perpetrated on the Farmers in California.
Carbongate
Climategate
Water-Gate
We’re 3 for 3 guys…
According to the Rutgers snowlab the NH and North American snow cover for May is the lowest of the 44 years of their record. About 77% of the mean.
the percentage of snowpack, for the sierra anyway, is relative to april 1st.
i can confirm that at least here in the sierra, the melt has only just started.
the crest is literally across the street, and just yesterday the dry waterfalls started flowing….and i mean flowing.
while i was working at the firestation this afternoon we had a run on sandbags, and i suspect by the volume of water coming down into canyon that we will get called out tommorrow to go help fill and place them.
I predict that the ‘controllers’ of the reservoirs are going to get the system into a huge bind, what with the politically driven emphasis on California Drought. They will hoard the water until the realization sets in: there’s too much water in the non-melted snowpack and not enough space in the reservoirs.
Panic Dump.
Not like they haven’t done that before.
My weekend ride along the Poudre River is currently diverted in several places, because the bike path is flooded from snow melt. The river is right up to its banks.
Pamela:
Funny thing about this. All the buildings put up before the 50′s are up away from the rivers and swamp areas. All the buildings put up after are right next to…or are in…the river beds and swamp lands. hmmmm.
We have the same problem in the UK.
We have lots of flooding nowadays of new houses built upon flood plains – and this is apparently due to “Global Warming”.
The clue lies in the name for this land, chaps, the clue is in the name. Where do they get these ‘Brave New World’ planners and media types from? Is there a sink-estate university somewhere, that churns out nothing but cretins?
.
Tesla_X says:
June 5, 2010 at 9:05 pm
You get a drought in California because research like this is INTENTIONALLY buried:
http://fresnobeehive.com/news/2010/05/heres_the_glibert_study_read_i.html#comments
Never mind the drought, check out that supermarket advert. $2.99 per lb for boneless steak?? No wonder the average Yank is, err, umm, well, sooo biiiggg.
.
Mike D.
George Taylor is also fortunate to have friends like you.
Dear Larry,
Nice data that you quote from USDA. Page 3 graph would seem to indicate differential effects of the precipitation variables (El Nino related, this with respect to winter precip.?) in different west US regions, while, if I understand correctly, the 1 April to 1 May differential reflects more temp. effects (less melting uniformly in west?). The US gov. data seem to fit nicely the expected natural variables when there isn’t an actual institutional imperative to corrupt data (food is too important!).
Bruce
I am late to this discussion, but want to thank Mike D (8:51 pm 6/5) for the beautiful tribute to George Taylor. It is good to know that individuals of integrity are working where they choose and being influential with their knowledge — affluence is good, too. I hope the Corps of Engineers and others in government listen well to George Taylor. I also hope we vote out of office and force to resign from positions of responsibility (academic and government) all the politically correct hypsters.
Steve Goddard thanks for continuing to set the record straight.
I have found this true: It matters not “weather” your science is correct, it matters “weather” or not you are a yesman to some prevailing opinion. And if the supervising level of your job is stuffed with prevailing opinion people, we, those of us who would rather base our work on direct observation and data, find ourselves a private citizen, or wanting to be. That is where I am at with our public education system related to special education. Do we want to actually spend our time planning for and teaching to grade level standards (You can’t read? If I can teach a rock how to read, I can teach you. Here is how to read, now start practicing.) or spend our time doing paperwork documenting poor little Johnny’s learning disability, admiring the problem, and accommodating for it, because the powers that be say paperwork, admiring the problem, and accommodating for it are what counts?
Sorry, but I would rather teach the truth and chase after results, instead of toe the line and chase after the prevailing opinion. George, I’m right behind you!
Hi Anthony,
my son looks at the web cams at our favorite board resort every day and whines, “why aren’t they open? The snow is still there!” But of course, they can’t afford staff to run the lifts or groom the runs, the crowds just quit coming in March, no matter the weather.
Lassen looks really good from Hwy 32. We’ve boarded Lassen as late as October, the snow pack on the summit was that good. Usually we spend Father’s Day at Diamond Peak or somewhere along the road into the park. There’s some good runs around the sulphur works. But there’s no groomers, no trails, it’s pretty rough and tumble. And at the summit, the up takes a long time, for about a 6 minute down. Although, I’ll tell you what, there’s just about nothing quite like yelling “Ya-HOOOOO!” for six minutes. And there’s nothing like snowboarding in shorts and tank tops, or a bikini. Don’t sit down.
My husband and I were talking about ‘global warming’ the other day, and we were trying to come up with the appropriate word for the feeling that your own petty actions could actually be responsible for something so huge – ‘arrogance’ just didn’t quite do it. ‘Self-important’? Not sure.
Have a good weekend – I can’t wait to get back to that classic Chico “dry heat”., this mugginess is yucckkky.
How does RealClimate defend their obviously wrong prediction? I went over there to see for myself but I simply can’t stand reading that site. I had to leave within minutes. It’s an insult to intelligence over there.
There is an apparent discrepency between http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/docs.php?target=ssmi
and the USDA report. Can someone explain why such a difference. Rutgers appears to indicate there is no snow in the lower 48. What am I missing?
CarlNC says:
June 6, 2010 at 7:56 am
There is an apparent discrepency between http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/docs.php?target=ssmi
and the USDA report. Can someone explain why such a difference. Rutgers appears to indicate there is no snow in the lower 48. What am I missing?
Rutgers reports on a 1ºx1º grid which might be part of it, also microwaves don’t respond as well to wet melting snow.
Weather, not climate: June frost in Korea
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2921285
Wade says:
June 5, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Could some please send that snow to the south east US because it has been a very hot May and June is starting out hot too. We can thank La Nina for that. La Nina makes the south east US hot and dry because the jet stream stays north most of the summer and a huge blocking high pressure camps out over us. Air conditioning is the best thing that has ever been invented. Please send us some snow.
The only positive is that in North Carolina, where I live, the chances of a hurricane is less. Florida and the Gulf coast area, not so much.
_______________________________________________________________________
Hot? Dry? It was dry in April but it has been very soggy lately, I can still dig fence post holes in the clay (unheard of in summer) and I turned on the A/C for the first time yesterday. I just hope it stays cool and wet for the rest of the summer here in North Carolina.
I climbed Red Lakes Peak three times in the last 30 days and I can report that the snow/ice in its bowls is melting dramatically now. Red Lakes Peak is just east of Kirkwood near the Carson Pass. It will likely all be gone by late August as usual. Skiing has been great! This has been the best spring climbing season in a memory that goes back beyond the satellite era.
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=05&fy=1988&sm=06&sd=05&sy=2010
Tesla_X says:
June 5, 2010 at 9:05 pm
You get a drought in California because research like this is INTENTIONALLY buried:….
__________________________________
Thanks for the info. Control of the world food supply => Famine is another of my interests.
Actually it is
Control Energy (Carbon trade agreements)
Control food (WTO Agreement on Agriculture)
Control Money (Obama’s sign off on the Financial Stability Board)
So “they” have won two out of three and with Obama on deck look to win three out of three…. Welcome to the new worldwide neo-feudalism
juanita says: June 6, 2010 at 7:08 am
hey juanita, come on down to the eastern sierra, mammoth mountain will be open until the 4th of july for sure!
watch how fast it melts here.
George Taylor is one of my Heroes. He was gibbeted by the Warmist Governor of this
state…..
Heretic! Infidel! Unbeliever!- it’s waay too medieval any more….
I don’t understand. The chart in this post shows that the AZ snowpack is ~9% of normal as of June 1. The May 25 post, http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/25/the-western-snowpack-is-137-of-normal/ shows that as of May 25, the AZ snowpack was over 400% of normal. There was that much loss in AZ snowpack in only 6 days? Is one of those numbers incorrect? Is the comparison to such a small number such that any change in amount is such a drastic change in per centages?
If someone were to tell me that both of those numbers are correct, I’d be skeptical.
There is a huge blank area on most american maps between Washington and Alaska, it is called British Columbia. Here is a report,
B.C.’s unseasonably warm and sunny weather through January and February has resulted in a snowpack so low that the government is already worried about summer drought.
Do a search for more details.
DonK31 says: June 6, 2010 at 1:28 pm
this was explained in a previous comment. in any case, here is the data:
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/snow/basin_reports/arizona/wy2010/basnaz5.txt
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/snow/basin_reports/arizona/wy2010/basnaz6.txt
Idaho rivers are CRANKING full bore.
USGS real time data for Idaho stream flow:
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/current?type=flow&group_key=NONE&search_site_no_station_nm=
Examples:
River , current flow vs. long term median flow
Snake R. at China Gardens, 133,000cfs vs. 61,700cfs
Salmon R. at White Bird, 79,400 vs. 42,000cfs
Selway R., 22,800cfs vs. 14,299cfs
Payette R. at Emmet, 19,800cfs vs. 8,450cfs.
There was a crest yesterday. We are about 2-3 weeks behind normal high water. But it is still raining.
nc
BC has pretty close to normal snowpack. Below is May 22 data, and there has been a lot of precipitation since.
Traveling thru the west this week. Still is some snow at the north rim grand cyn & in Bryce cyn. Also plenty of snow on highest pks in SoCal. Looks like the rumors of winter’s death have been greatly exxagerated
[cyn = canyon. ~dbs]
I rode along the Poudre this morning – full up to it’s banks. One person drowned this week in the Poudre, and another did in The Big Thompson.
Over 3,000 ft^3/sec
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?06752260
The Poudre is running 300% of the median volume for this date.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?cb_00065=on&cb_00060=on&format=gif_default&period=120&site_no=06752260
Things are worse than we thought.
The good news, of course, is that now that they are applying that nostrum to the economy, they will forget all about gloBULL warming.
local hydrological forecast:
http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=CAZ073&warncounty=CAC051&firewxzone=CAZ273&local_place1=June+Lake+CA&product1=Special+Weather+Statement
walker river is on the verge of a record flow.
we have some washouts an dminor flooding. the creeks would be much higher, but they are simply carving multiple channels, classic braided channel flood flow. pretty cool 😉
Pamela Gray says:
June 5, 2010 at 6:12 pm
You should be in Wallowa County right now.
The Grande Ronde and Catherine Creek are now bank to bank here in Union Co., just got back from Union, which is now having the Eastern Oregon Livestock show. Complete with its usual Thunderstorm and “hen drowner” rains.
Haven’t seen the like here since oh, 2008. But this weather was not at all unusual for the 50’s 60’s or most of the 70’s…
Hmmm…
Dang it, I didn’t quote properly. Got distracted by my Springer and his Squirrel
nemesis at the quite soggy bird feeder….
My wife and I were in the Sierras today at the southeastern end of Yostemite in the Ansel Adams wilderness. Normally Beasore meadows and all of the campgrounds in this area are open at this time of year. We could not get within 5 miles of Beasore or 3 miles from the end of the road on highway 81. All routes, even the 4×4 trails are completely blocked by snow above about 6600 ft altitude. All of these areas usually are open by Memorial day weekend. At the current melt rate it will be next weekend or longer before these areas open up.
Today was hot though and there is a flood warning out for the Merced river at Yosemite.
Ahhh… Oregon. Such a stupendously beautiful state.
They do so many things right….mandatory bike lines, the forward-thinking metropolis called Portland, captilaizing on their immense and plentiful natural resources and interesting geology for tourism and businesses.
Too bad the governor is a climate-change automaton and a bureaucrat at that.
I remember the October before last when I had some time to kill in Portland, and walking through the leafy city parks that line museums, coffee shops, universities, and damn good restaurants, there was an autumnal stillness in the air as the maples silently shedded their clothing.
The PDO and La Nina were announcing change. And a big change it was! What a winter for the Pacific NW!
Not that this past one with its frigid December start, and late Spring finale, was anything to shake a stick at!
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Correction: bike lanes
Must suprpess Taylor. We can’t have anyone questioning the party line.
Henry chance,
The judge relented a few days ago, and some (but not all) of the water is now flowing south again. There will likely be an appeal by the greenies, so this is not over yet.
http://www.acwa.com/news/endangered-invasive-species/judge-wanger-rules-delta-smelt
This also has a link to the judge’s decision.
…THE FLOOD ADVISORY FOR MELTING SNOW REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 115 PM MDT TUESDAY FOR WEST CENTRAL WELD…BOULDER AND LARIMER COUNTIES…
RIVERS AND CREEKS REMAINING IN THE ADVISORY INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO THE CACHE LA POUDRE AND BIG THOMPSON RIVERS AND THEIR TRIBUTARIES IN LARIMER COUNTY…SAINT VRAIN AND BOULDER CREEKS AND THEIR TRIBUTARIES IN BOULDER COUNTY…AND THE CACHE LA POUDRE RIVER IN RURAL AREAS OF WELD COUNTY BETWEEN FORT COLLINS AND GREELEY.
Starting to see some flooding from the melt. Flood warning today on the Merced. And the jet stream is moving south again, prog’ing rain into the north bay by tomorrow night. Then, the mother low of that system is supposed to turn hard right and morph into a Tonopah Low. That could actually increase the snow pack above say 5K (or maybe even lower). We’re facing the possibility of record cold by the end of the week from this. Probably no precip west of the Sierra unless there is a cold Santa Ana in which case some SoCal ranges may get some as well.
I am blessed and a bit red-faced at the words from my friend Mike D (6/5). Mike, you went way overboard in your praise, but…thanks! I am happily retired from Oregon State University, keeping busy in my little business (Applied Climate Services). I’m not getting rich (sorry, Mike), but my life is richer because I can be self-employed, say what I want to say, and choose the kind of work I want to do. I am a fortunate man to have friends like Mike.
CarlNC says: “There is an apparent discrepency between http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/docs.php?target=ssmi and the USDA report. Can someone explain why such a difference. Rutgers appears to indicate there is no snow in the lower 48. What am I missing?”
Carl, it’s “rotten” snow.
SteveSadlov says: June 7, 2010 at 3:25 pm That could actually increase the snow pack above say 5K (or maybe even lower). We’re facing the possibility of record cold by the end of the week from this.
you are not kidding. floods today and snow for the weekend!
George Taylor says:
June 7, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I am blessed and a bit red-faced at the words from my friend Mike D (6/5). Mike, you went way overboard in your praise, but…thanks! I am happily retired from Oregon State University, keeping busy in my little business (Applied Climate Services). I’m not getting rich (sorry, Mike), but my life is richer because I can be self-employed, say what I want to say, and choose the kind of work I want to do.
—…—…
(Robt is stumped!) But, but, but … Don’t you want to be all wrapped in that nice safe free-from-hassle ivory tower all protected by tenure and awards and a pleasant, non-competitive environment of love and well-funded honest research without any pressure to conform to the local norms?
/sarchasm – The gaping whole between a liberal and the real world. 8<)