New Zealand sacks its top climate researcher for speaking with the media

WUWT reader “Purakanui” emailed me: “I have just read an extraordinary news item. Jim Salinger is the voice of global warming as far as New Zealand is concerned. Until recently he was always there when a new ‘record’ appeared, or a glacier retreated. He was a breathless and apparently wholly convinced warmer. Also he is a good scientist.”

I checked his bio page:

http://www.niwa.co.nz/ncc/contact/staff/jsalinger/bio

And it has been removed.  Now if NASA could just get the stones to do this for Jim Hansen for promoting civil disobedience. – Anthony

From TV New Zealand

jim_salingerOne of New Zealand’s top climate scientists has just been fired from his job at the National Institute of Water & Atmospheric research (NIWA).

Dr Jim Salinger has been the public face of the organisation for three decades, but says it was his unauthorised talking to the media that’s got him sacked.

Salinger, whose work as a science communicator has earned him accolades and even contributed to a Nobel Peace Prize, says he is now planning to sue his former employer for unjustified dismissal because according to him, he cannot understand why he was sacked.

“It’s not as though I’m doing bad science, it’s not as though I’m not performing and so I’m really astounded”.

What got Salinger fired is something that in the past brought him high praise – talking to the media.

Salinger says he always believed that his media work actually brought NIWA into repute.

Read the complete story here

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128 Responses to New Zealand sacks its top climate researcher for speaking with the media

  1. Robinson says:

    I don’t know this fellow, is he a warmist? If so, then this is a very happy story with which to end the week. If not, then this is a very sad story with which to end the week.

  2. John W. says:

    Of course, for anyone who isn’t an AGW proponent, getting fired for speaking to the media about your job without your employer’s permission isn’t newsworthy. The judge should dismiss his suit with prejudice.

  3. kim says:

    The government of New Zealand has recently become more skeptical of schemes to cap carbon.
    ==================================

  4. bushy says:

    “His work now is to make room for over 30 years of scientific papers – the quality of which is not in question.” mmmmm well ok.

    I have tried to source these interviews without success – anybody?

  5. Mark Young says:

    There’s a dangerous arrogance among a number of these folks, I think. Frankly, there’s a sort of “moral superiority” about some that makes them act as if the rules don’t apply to them.

    I’ve seen similar attitudes shown by all manner of power-drunk “crusading” folks. E.g., MADD, Anti-smokers, Drug Warriors, Anti-Porn Activists, etc.

    I suspect that this also leads to big blind spots among many of these folks who sincerely believe that they’re not wrong.

  6. CodeTech says:

    From the linked article:

    “As scientists we’re all a bit eccentric and we all might slightly break protocol, but it’s not going to destroy NIWA”.

    Um… as scientists do we all exaggerate, fabricate, and pontificate? I must have missed that day in scientist school.

    Is this the beginning of a trend? One can only hope. I’m getting tired of encountering programmed automatons created by the likes of Salinger.

  7. Alec, a.k.a Daffy Duck says:

    … the news from Poland:

    Polish Academy of Sciences Questions Gore’s Man-Made Global Warming Theory
    By: Kevin Mooney
    Examiner Investigative Reporter
    04/24/09 9:18 AM
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html

  8. Hank says:

    This guy wants to use his government job as a soapbox for political involvement. If he believes in the importance of what he says he should show some leadership and initiative and test his ideas in a campaign for office. It would probably involve more courage than he has though. Simply filing a lawsuit will be a coward’s choice. What are his damages supposed to be? I’m sure this character will have no problem finding employment among like minded friends outside of government.

  9. Retired Engineer says:

    Wow! A chink in the armor? Along similar lines:

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=325379250231972

    “Energy Policy: California regulators are ready to conclude that corn ethanol cannot help the state fight global warming. It seems they’ve discovered putting food in our cars would destroy the earth in order to save it.”

    This has to be a mistake. We cannot allow logic or common sense to play any part in public policy.

  10. Jack Green says:

    Maybe it’s a trend. Some of these media types just pull things off the net so they have more time to ski, or hike, or golf, or what ever. Journalism has died.

  11. Juraj V. says:

    So he told that Antarctic ice is decreasing or increasing? Or both in the same week?

  12. Jared says:

    He doesn’t think he’s doing poor science?

    Dr Jim Salinger here’s a few things you might want to brush up on

    1. CO2 going up, up and away, while temps are going down. – Doesn’t your ‘good’ science say CO2 drives temps? Not looking like it. Looking at the trends I’d say we have about another 25 to 30 years of temps not rising. So much for CO2 driving temps.

    2. CO2 was MUCH higher when the Dinosaurs were around – Doesn’t your ‘good’ science say we’ll turn into Venus with too much CO2. – At least that’s what your Nobel buddy Al Gore says.

    3. Why is global sea ice increasing? Oh yeah, the video game your pals designed says global warming, causes global sea ice to increase, yet at the same time ‘magically’ Antarctica is going to melt and increase sea levels 20 feet.

    Dr Jim Salinger you may not have been the one that did these studies, but you SUPPORT them, which is very poor science.

    If I was representing my company and went around talking about how models show the tooth fairy exists I think I’d be fired. Especially if I was a scientist, b/c that would really show how inept I am as a scientist.

  13. cbullitt says:

    The first strike back? Hooray.

  14. P Folkens says:

    Rule: NZ government officials don’t speak in public without obtaining prior approval.
    Action: NZ government official speaks in public without obtaining prior approval.
    Results: Government official gets dismissed for speaking in public without approval.

    Said sacked official wonders why he was fired.

    This is an example of two characteristics of the AGW movement: a lack of simple logic and a disconnect due to their evangelism.

  15. deadwood says:

    Now if NASA could just get the stones to do this for Jim Hansen for promoting civil disobedience. – Anthony

    Not likely to happen when the big boss is in complete agreement with Hansen’s views.

  16. Baz Moreton says:

    Go to http://www.theaustraliannews.com.au/story/0,25179,25376454-758

    Jan Veizer April24 . ‘Climate change science isn’t settled’.

    Keep up the brilliant work, though I am loosing one or two ,so called, friends.

    Baz

  17. GK says:

    Does anyone have any proven evidence weather he was an AGW liar ?

    The MSM reports dont actually say anything about his position on issues, so we need to be careful.

    If he is an AGW liar (and that is what we shoud call these frauds), then this is great news.

  18. bsneath says:

    It will be a wonderfully positive sign that our society is on the mend if those who promote advocacy rather than honesty are removed from public positions. Don’t count on it though. It is still the opinion of too many that “The end justifies the means.”

  19. Mark Hugoson says:

    Bio page link is DEAD as of 10:30 AM CDT, USA.

    Interesting. Evidently in this Brave New World you can be made a “non-person as fast as you can be made an overnight celebrity. Telling!

    Mark H.

  20. Ray says:

    Is he to become the Jim Hansen of the NZ? Another AGW scientist that will not blame his science but the government for stopping him telling the world how we are all going to die. Who is the NZ equivalent to Al Gore?

  21. Smokey says:

    From the article:

    NIWA says it will not talk about an employment issue publicly, but says it had given him warnings before his dismissal.

    So Salinger was repeatedly warned, but he deliberately disobeyed those instructions. But in his mind, he’s special. The rules don’t apply to him.

    Now if NASA would only have the huevos to tell its employees to clear public statements relating to their job, it would restore some faith in the organization.

    But sadly, NASA lacks the courage of NZ.

  22. P Folkens says:

    OT:
    In House Energy and Commerce Sub-committed testimony, Mr. Gore just equated AGW deniers with Bernie Madoff, stating that the deniers are perpetrating a greater fraud on the world. He also said “There is no legitimate basis for denying [GW].” Golly, I thought the recent data was legitimate.

  23. Jean Bosseler says:

    “I’m not aware of any other country sacking a Nobel award winner or for that matter a companion of the Royal Society of NZ, so that’s a bit strange I’d have to say”.

    What has never been, can always be! I wish the same happens to Pachauri for sloppy work. Instead Yale University creates an Institute and a position for him !!!!! (Nature)
    He is working part-time retaining his present positions with the IPCC and as director-general of India’s Energy and Resources Institute in New Dehli.
    It’s only a matter of money, see Gore!

    Jean Bosseler-Luxembourg, Europe

  24. Dave D says:

    I love this quote, it JUMPS off the page… “As scientists we’re all a bit eccentric and we all might slightly break protocol, but it’s not going to destroy NIWA”.

    Let’s look at this quote. Are people employed and paid “as long as they don’t DESTROY” the organizations that pay them??? I missed that memo at my work. I guess things like following your supervisor’s instructions, and company policies are just extras – don’t destroy us and we’ll pay you for life… Good luck finding a job in this Climate! ;-)

    That’s not very Christian, I hope that he does find work and that God’s will is served through this experience. I have often found in all walks of life that a firing leads to a new hiring and things often happen for a reason, wish him a wake up call and all the best!

    Sincerely,
    Dave

  25. UK Sceptic says:

    Q What do you call a sacked Antipodean AGW alarmist?

    A A good start.

  26. John H says:

    My first reaction was that Hansen will give him a better job.

  27. Ric Werme says:

    Mark Hugoson (08:34:59) :

    > Bio page link is DEAD as of 10:30 AM CDT, USA.

    > Interesting. Evidently in this Brave New World you can be made a “non-person as fast as you can be made an overnight celebrity. Telling!

    Hardly! While I wasn’t able to find that page in Google, one problem was all the other hits through NIWA that are still there. I doubt they’ll delete the reports he co-authored or take the time to delete his name.

    Radio and TV stations do a much better job of purging past employees, especially those to join the competition.

  28. Adam Soereg says:

    Is this person really an AGW proponent and he was fired? How could this happen to him?

    As I previously thought, no one can lose his/her job because of promoting AGW and supplying the media with an endless source of scaremongering stories. But if you are a government-funded researcher and you are expressing your skeptical views publicly, you shouldn’t be surprised if you lose your funding and/or get fired suddenly.

    Fortunately (like the climate itself), things are always changing. However, in the case of Jim Hansen and his civil disobedience movement I can’t be so optimistic.

  29. vg says:

    Quoted from The Australian today hahahah Thank you Australian…. (hint last line qualifications of writer)

    “It goes without saying that Plimer has every right to publish whatever it is he believes. However, for the editors of this newspaper to give books such as his the kind of enthusiastic welcome hundreds of others published in this country every year cannot dream of receiving and, even more, to treat their publication as important events, seems to me a grave intellectual, political and moral mistake.”

    Robert Manne is professor of politics at LaTrobe University in Melbourne.
    Story

  30. Adam Gallon says:

    Obviously a dastardly plot by Big Oil to surpress the truth about the dangers of AGW!

  31. Gary says:

    From the press report (never totally reliable, of course) this sounds sounds like a battle of wills between a supervisor under political pressure and a scientist used to getting his own way. There are references to insubordination and new policy. I suspect neither party handled the situation well from the beginning and now it’s escalated. Regardless of the scientist’s opinions, pro- or anti- AGW, there need to be clearly defined and publicized policies for individuals other than official spokespersons talking to the press or this sort of thing is almost guaranteed to happen. Agencies should be neutral and advocacy should be personal. And it’s the job of both parties to make this clear to the press.

  32. Nasif Nahle says:

    OT… Swine influenza hits Mexico. We have more than 800 suspected cases and 57 deaths in several states of the country. I hope there is not a politician who would attribute it to global warming.

    Regarding the case of Dr Jim Salinger, it makes me angry because true scientists are being fired for doing correct science. This is evidence on the existence of a crusade against those who struggle with the weapons of truth against the climate change priesthood.

  33. CodeTech says:

    From http://www.3news.co.nz/News/Niwa-sacks-top-scientist/tabid/209/articleID/101155/cat/41/Default.aspx

    “Niwa’s actions will make all government scientists nervous about their jobs,” said Green Party co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons.

    “New Zealand is on a slippery slope when trying to provide Kiwis with a greater understanding of our climate is a sackable offence.”

    and

    Greenpeace said it wanted answers from Niwa and the Government.

    “Dr Salinger has done some amazing work to educate New Zealanders about climate change and he is highly respected internationally,” said Greenpeace senior climate campaigner Simon Boxer.

    “He was very clear about the need for urgent climate action in New Zealand.”

    More from Salinger:
    http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/1999/1999-01-28-1
    “The top ten warmest years have all been since 1983, with seven of them since 1990…”

    http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/publications/all/wa/16-2/news4

    In Auckland in April, NIWA climate scientist Jim Salinger delivered some sombre news to a convention of the Institute of Brewing and Distilling: in the decades to come, climate change will have serious effects on the cultivation of malting barley – a key ingredient in beer.

    Warned Salinger, “It will mean either there will be pubs without beer or the cost of beer will go up.”

    Malting barley crops will be affected globally, but Salinger’s remarks were specifically about New Zealand and Australia. As soon as 30 years from now, rising temperatures and drier conditions could spell dramatic decreases of the crop in areas presently growing the grain – in Canterbury in New Zealand and in four states in Australia: New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia. The picture is less dire for New Zealand, however, as the same climate changes may render parts of Southland and Otago more suitable for growing malting barley.

    Brewers in Australasia will face “a lot of challenges”,including the necessity of developing new strains of heat and drought-resistant malting barley, or varieties that can mature in a shorter season.

    (That’s it, get the beer drinkers onboard… that’ll get action!)

    Scan through some of the links at http://en.wordpress.com/tag/jim-salinger/

    MAKE NO MISTAKE: Salinger is one of the MAIN AGW alarmists. His Chicken Little impersonation should never have had the tacit approval of a government. His “Nobel Peace Prize” contribution, as expected, was as a member of the IPCC… http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0710/S00029.htm – and thus is totally pointless and meaningless (as all Nobel Peace Prizes are lately).

    Thus, Mr. Salinger’s dismissal is a GOOD THING, and should be celebrated by science-oriented people everywhere. It is one more step in the dismantling of the ridiculous AGW religion.

    Also, the warmists are FURIOUS, posts abound about this being a travesty, bad, horrible, anti-science, etc.

    I, for one, will be celebrating Mr. “Deer in the Headlights what did I do wrong?” Salinger’s well deserved dismissal.

  34. “…he is now planning to sue his former employer for unjustified dismissal because according to him, he cannot understand why he was sacked.”

    I’m sure they ‘splained it to him. He’s simply in denial. He evidently assumed that being PC/pro-AGW would give him permission to override the rules.

  35. Ric Werme says:

    Anthony wrote:

    > I checked his bio page:

    > http://www.niwa.co.nz/ncc/contact/staff/jsalinger/bio

    Where did you find that link? Even http://www.niwa.co.nz/ncc claims to not exist. It looks like they have changed the contact info into “key contacts” pages for each of their 13 divisions, see http://www.niwa.co.nz/site-map There is also an employee search page that doesn’t have biographical data, but does have Salinger, see http://www.niwa.co.nz/about-niwa/our-people/search/results?title=sal*&submit=Search+Staff

  36. Nasif Nahle says:

    Uh-Oh!!! Bigger mistake… Dr. Salinger is on the other sideway, that is, on the wrong side. Sorry.

  37. alex verlinden says:

    hey Daffy … :-)

    thanks for the link of the Polish Academy of Sciences … those 10 points are what I would call “the Big Picture” …

  38. Dave D says:

    I find it interesting that Gore is using the “Fraud”. I believe he wants to get out first and loudest to Congress and the Media – right after he read Lord Monckton’s Report.

  39. Don B says:

    This is a pleasant change from two years ago when the Oregon Governor forced the state climatologist George Taylor from his job at Oregon State University because he did not support carbon dioxide alarmism.

    http://climatesci.org/2007/02/07/political-correctness-for-state-climatologists-in-order-to-force-these-positions-to-embrace-global-warming-as-summarized-by-the-ipcc-%e2%80%93-a-chilling-development/

  40. Ted Clayton says:

    On eTaiwanNews: NZ climate scientist fired for unapproved comments

    “Jim Salinger was let go for breaching a new policy at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research requiring scientists to have prior approval before speaking to media.”

    I think this is a standard organizational ‘mechanism'; that one is required (at least ‘by the letter’) to run media-engagements etc past the Boss before jaunting off to effectively represent the Government, the Military, one’s University, or her local Brownie Troop, all by one’s little lonesome.

    This type of rule or control often exists, but generally lies moribund for extended lengths of time. But given the right circumstances, it can suddenly be dusted off & enforced … to much gnashing & rending.

    Could it be applied to NASA’s Jim Hansen? Certainly. Could he be hung out to dry purely for innocuously promoting “civil disobedience”? Probably not. Could he be sent packing for using lenient American rules that allow for orderly civil disobedience, as a ‘cover’ to instead engage to foment violent, destruction or subversive activities?

    In a heart beat. … That is, the moment that authorities decide his usefulness (which I assume largely explains the Hansen-Circus) has come to an end.

  41. George E. Smith says:

    New Zealand has a number of prominent climate “skeptics/realists” (I am not one of them) notably Vincent Gray, who is in Wellington area and Chris de Freitas who teaches at the University of Auckland. Vincent is a Physicist, and I am not sure of Chris’ credentials but he teaches I think Geography and Climate science in some relational way. I had a good chat with him on a visit there in 2004, and I talk to Vincent now and then.
    At the recent elections in late 2008 (just after the US) NZ elected a more conservative group of politicians; but I am not sure exactly how things ended up, because the old Laborite Helen Clark still seems to be Prime Minister.

    But NZ is becomeing more suspect of the AGW thesis for some good reasons. They have a huge domestic farm animal population that outnumbers the human population 20:1, so they ahve the flatulence problem; but they also have intensive tree farming; probably the most efficient in the world, and generally are tired of the international community telling them they can’t carbon offset their methane with their CO2 absorbing tree farming.

    All NZ native timbers are relatively slow growing; so they have created the world’s largest man made forests; of things like Douglas Fir (which is called Oregon pine down home) and other species, I think Pinus Radiata, and Pinus Insignus are two species that come to mind. They mature rapidly and are used for virtually all forest products with very little native species lumbering.

    So i think Kiwis are getting a little sick of the UN telling them how to run things; and I’m hoping that the birdbrains in Canberra, can look across the Tasman, and see that they should follow NZ’s lead out of the AGW morass.

    Australia has a significant carbon sourcing “problem” because of their general desert areas being so massive; so I am sure they feel the undeserved heat of the AGWers wrath. We can still kick their a*** on the rugby fields, but we are with them in this carbon fiasco.

    George

  42. alex verlinden says:

    however … I tried to confirm the link from a source at the P.A. of Sciences, but did not succeed … the “the Geologic Science Committee of the Polish Academy of Sciences” is mentioned, and I checked a website ” http://www.ing.pan.pl/index_E.htm ” , but I did not find any mention of the report … I wouldn’t know if that is the correct place to look …

    anybody interested and more succesfull ?

    tia

  43. J. Peden says:

    Alec, a.k.a Daffy Duck (07:55:47) :

    … the news from Poland:

    Polish Academy of Sciences Questions Gore’s Man-Made Global Warming Theory
    By: Kevin Mooney
    Examiner Investigative Reporter
    04/24/09 9:18 AM
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html

    The Polish Academy’s 10 points are well worth a click! Thanks, Daffy.

  44. The law of Unintended Consequences at work. A new tax credit is given to paper mills for *adding* fossil fuels (diesel) to their fuel mix for power generation. Oops.

    http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2009/04/24/8321/paper_firms_reap_billions_from_tax_credit_–_but_should_they

  45. Ray says:

    I learned from a teacher of mine, with whom I also did research, that Nature usually raise red flags here and there to try to show us how it works. The deal with research is to try to see those flags and learn to read the language. Ignoring the red flags and not learning to read the signs only leads to bad conclusions.

  46. Ted Clayton says:

    CodeTech (09:53:30),

    The reaction of Greenpeace – talking to New Zealand like they’re the USA browbeating North Korean – raises the question: Could the dismissal of Salinger be a way to confront the ever-growing sense of peerage with which Green & AGW NGOs interact with global States?

    Is it, perhaps, that the entities whom the Salingers of the world champion have finally gotten just one size too big for their britches?

    That is: It ain’t Salinger – it’s Greenpeace.

  47. John in NZ says:

    NZ has some of the most “employee favourable” employment legislation in the world.

    If NIWA have not followed the correct procedure Jim could yet get his job back. But he has been annoying people with his public statements for a while. Jim has been to NIWA what James is to NASA. An embarrassment.

  48. Mike Bryant says:

    Ok, I didn’t realize that beer was at risk because of global warming… I will now become an Algoreholic and send in the next ten years of cap ant trade taxes to the US government… I figure my life savings might at least put a down payment on it… heck it’s dropped halfway in value anyway… my kids and grandkids can pay the rest.

    Not really, I’m fighting this thing to the bitter end.

  49. MattB says:

    See I figure that beer would be on the hit list considering how much co2 it produces in the process of making it.

  50. John Galt says:

    Truman fired General MacArthur for insubordination, not for being a bad general. Likewise, the firing of Sallinger shows that in New Zealand at least, people aren’t above the rules.

  51. Bill in AZ says:

    “In House Energy and Commerce Sub-committed testimony, Mr. Gore just equated AGW deniers with Bernie Madoff, stating that the deniers are perpetrating a greater fraud on the world.”

    That’s funny coming from Al “Flat Earth” Gore.

    “See I figure that beer would be on the hit list considering how much co2 it produces in the process of making it.”

    Which has to make one wonder why the wonder fuel ethanol isn’t on the hist list since its production creates a whole lot more CO2.

  52. Jim Papsdorf says:

    Highlighted and accessible on Drudge RIGHT NOW !!!!

    Democrats Refuse to Allow Skeptic to Testify Alongside Gore At Congressional Hearing

    http://www.drudgereport.com/

  53. James from NZ says:

    What many NZ’s have trouble with is understanding why the obvious corruption within the staff ranks of US tax payer funded organisations like NASA are allowed to continue unchallenged by their bosses.

  54. Chuck near Houston says:

    John Galt (10:42:01) :

    Who is that guy anyway?

    ;-)

  55. James from NZ says:

    I recently heard that a well regarded potato breeding scientist informed a packed conference room that global warming meant that funding was needed to breed new plant cultivars that could be grown within our mountainous regions.

    Maybe the sacking of Jim S. might effectively temper the comments of some other outspoken advocates of global warming both here in NZ and also overseas.

  56. AnonyMoose says:

    The missing “bio” page had a navigation breadcrumb header of ” > NIWA Science > National Climate Centre > Contacting the NCC > NCC Coordinators > Salinger bio > Staff Profile”

    So it used to list Salinger as an NCC contact person.

    The web site has been redesigned, and now if you traverse the menus to find contact people for climate you land on http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/key-contacts
    and listed are: Dr David Wratt (Position: Chief Scientist, Climate. “He is a member of the Bureau of the IPCC and a Vice-Chair of Working Group 1, which assesses the physical science of climate change.”) and Dr Andrew Tait (Position: Climate Scientist. “…acts as a NCC liaison with the media.”)

  57. Nasif Nahle says:

    Adolfo Giurfa (10:28:30) :

    Nasif Nahle (09:52:33) :

    OT… Swine influenza hits Mexico
    Beware all those fatty GWrs.!!

    Hahaha… Out of Topic: And we have one of them here; a fatty, fatty man. Perhaps he brought swine influenza into Mexico?

    On topic: Universities used to invite me to read conferences for their graduates; the last one was on global warming in September 2007, but from a scientific standpoint. Since then, I’ve not received more invitations from universities… That’s why I talked about a crusade against scientific correctness… Heh! ;)

  58. Patrik says:

    Ray (10:19:53) : Excuse me, but that sounds like utter nonsense. Nature has no red flags. All flags are 100% anthropogenic which can be proven beyond doubt.

  59. J.Hansford says:

    Goodo!… The new Conservative Government of NZ purging the dross from the Bureaucracy…. Should happen a bit more regularly.

    I think the skill base should cycle a bit more…. Gets the buggers into private enterprise and engaged in the real world.

    At least now NZ will get some new advice and perspective on the science of Climate.

  60. KimW says:

    Actually, the former Prime Minister Helen Clark is now head of UNDEP.

  61. Did the WUWT moderator move to New Zealand? :)

  62. WakeUpMaggy says:

    NZ is very proud of its clean green image and had hoped to attract huge attention as THE world leader in carbon mitigation. Big fantasies of world fame. I think the mere thought of taxing agricultural animal emissions started to wake some of them up.

    Isolated, as they are, and having lost enormous numbers of educated people over the ditch, (males in particular), their nanny state got out of control with Helengrad at the helm. Desiring leadership, and anti-American to the core, they invested a lot of naive hope in the UN as the standard.
    Over-feminized in general, they have finally begun to come to their senses.

    They also have extremely protective labor laws, it wouldn’t surprise me if Salinger wins a huge settlement over some detail.

  63. Tim Clark says:

    From the article:

    Late Thursday, Dr Salinger arrived home from NIWA for the last time. He may head the World Commission for Agricultural Meteorology, but now has no job to go to in his own country.

    Thanks Kiwis, your gift to the world will not go unrequited.

  64. Ed Scott says:

    All the World’s a Playstation
    Tom Quirk

    http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2009/4/all-the-world-s-a-playstation

    Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, a powerful tool had been created. In the early 1970s Robert C. Merton, Myron S. Scholes and Fischer Black developed a pioneering approach for the valuation of stock options. In 1973, the Black–Scholes Option Pricing formula appeared. Thousands of traders and investors now use this formula every day to value stock options in markets throughout the world. Robert Merton devised another method to derive the formula that turned out to have very wide applicability.

    Merton and Black were awarded the 1997 Nobel Prize for Economics. In a press release announcing the award the Nobel Foundation stated, “Their methodology has paved the way for economic valuations in many areas. It has also generated new types of financial instruments and facilitated more efficient risk management in society.”

    Now are there lessons to be learned in other parts of the forest? An interesting starting point is the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Lehman were setting themselves to be leaders in carbon emissions trading when their world suddenly entered an ice age. They were close to a Nobel Prize winner, Al Gore.

    So the enabling technology for this disaster has been the computer, the spreadsheet and risk modelling—all possibly mixed in with Quants with little experience of the actual assets involved and a belief in computer-generated models of risk.

    For climate change many would argue that the only “evidence” for the dangers we may face comes from computer models.

    Here we assess risk helped by the IPCC with statements such as “it is very likely” that the surface temperature will warm by three degrees Celsius in the next one hundred years.

    The belief in climate modelling parallels the belief in financial risk modelling. The practitioners have been brought up to use computers as a primary tool for investigation. It has become so extreme that one lead IPCC author described the difference between model calculations and an actual measurement where the chance of the two overlapping was less than 5 per cent as “[measurements] consistent with model simulations, just larger than model average”! So now calculations verify measurements, where in classic science it used to be the other way round.

    Dr Kevin Trenberth, another lead IPCC author stated: “None of the models used by the IPCC are initialised to the observed state, and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate.”

    “… think about Al Gore, his Nobel Prize and what may follow.”

  65. Tim Clark says:

    KimW (12:13:31) :
    Actually, the former Prime Minister Helen Clark is now head of UNDEP

    Thanks Kiwis, you digging the hole even deeper.

  66. Douglas DC says:

    Re Barley crops(Mentioned above) In the late 1940’s and early 1950’s Barley was considered as a fast maturing drop as the Growing season was nibbling at two months in Northeastern Oregon.-the last time the PDO shifted cold without the added Solar Minimum being as severe…
    Seriously the State Wheat commission was worried about northern Canada-like conditions…

  67. D. King says:

    This is going to have scientists walking around like beaten
    dogs; tail between the legs, eyes looking upwards in fear,
    to see where the next wack on the head is coming from.
    Live by consensus, die by consensus!

  68. Norm Beazer says:

    It is always fascinating to read about a happening in NZ on the web before I see it in the local media. It is 7-30am in New Zealand as I write. A quick check of one of NZ’s largest daily newspapers online reveals nothing immediately – a search on Jim Salinger’s name does however reveal a brief factual story together with a raft of fairly innocuous weather related articles – see http://www.nzherald.co.nz

    To be sure, Jim’s views fall within the AGW camp – and I happen to disagree with him on that score. But I firmly disagree with anyone of whatever persuasion having their views stifled simply because some of us disagree, or that the opinion doesn’t fit with a “mainstream” view. Isn’t that what we all want – a proper debate, where all viewpoints are fairly aired ??

    Whatever Jim’s views on climate he has always been a good humoured friendly presence on television and in print. No I don’t agree with him, but just as I want my view to be heard – it shouldn’t be at the expense of others’ views being shut down, whatever the excuse – such as talking to the media without prior permission. What a sad indictment on NIWA.

    Do we applaud the fact that Monckton is not permitted the opportunity to debate with Al Gore ?? Should we rejoice in the apparent demise of one weatherman whatever his views on the simple excuse his talking to the media was not “permitted” – one who by my perception is a genial gentleman who gives out a fresh and insightful view on just the weather for goodness sake.

  69. Ed Scott says:

    A New Policy Direction for Climate Change
    Bob Carter

    http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2009/4/a-new-policy-direction-for-climate-change

    “…Australia currently possesses leaders of both its government and opposition who are lost in an imaginary world of virtual reality about one of the most important public issues of the day. They need a new and different sign on their desk, namely: It’s natural climate change, stupid!”

    For, whether it reflects simple ignorance or the sophisticated seeking of political advantage, and it must be one or the other, both Mr Rudd and Mr Turnbull have declared themselves in favour of the introduction of carbon dioxide taxation in order to help “stop” a wholly imaginary human-caused global warming. Their beliefs are supported only by speculative computer climate models already known to be wrong, and they will implement an emissions trading system (ETS) at their own political peril and to the great detriment of the Australian people.

    First, there has been no recent global warming in the common meaning of the term, for world average temperature has cooled for the last ten years.

    Second, this lack of overall warming over the last sixty-eight years happened despite an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide of more than 20 per cent; which is actually no surprise, because, notwithstanding that it is a greenhouse gas, the increase in the warming effect of carbon dioxide beyond 1940 levels is diminishingly small.

    Third, by planetary accident, in comparison with most of the Earth’s geological history we live today in a world that is in a state of carbon dioxide starvation, especially for optimal plant growth; just ask the commercial tomato growers who use enhanced levels of carbon dioxide in their greenhouses to expedite crop growth.

    Fourth, experience in Europe shows emissions trading markets are unstable, and that a carbon dioxide tax is ineffectual as a tool for reducing emissions at any reasonable price level. Overall, therefore, Mr Rudd’s planned emissions trading scheme suffers from the double indignity of being a non-solution to a non-problem.

    “…most journalists and editors are innocent of knowledge of the workings of science and cling to a naive belief that scientific matters can be determined by authority or consensus, thereby confusing science with politics.”

    Science is about testing hypotheses, and the hypothesis of the day—that dangerous global warming is being caused by human carbon dioxide emissions—has been tested repeatedly and found to be invalid,…

    “… the greatest damage that has been inflicted by those whipping up the imaginary threat of human-caused global warming is that the hysteria has overwhelmed mature consideration of the much greater and proven threat of natural climate change.”

    All competent scientists accept that global climate has always changed, and always will; that human activities (not just carbon dioxide emissions) definitely affect local climate, and have the potential, summed, to measurably affect global climate; and that carbon dioxide is a mild greenhouse gas. The true scientific debate, then, is about none of these issues, but rather about the sign and magnitude of any human global effect, and its likely significance when considered in the context of natural climate change.

    To summarise, the indirect evidence advanced for human-caused climate change is all equally consistent with a natural origin. Since the establishment of the IPCC in 1988 several thousand scientists have spent more than US$50 billion looking for evidence of human-caused warming without avail. No direct evidence exists for a worrisome magnitude or rate for human-caused global climate change over the last fifty years.

    Natural climate changes of all types are going to continue to affect our planet, and from time to time these changes will wreak human and environmental damage. Future changes will include cooling trends, warming trends and sudden step-events. Extreme weather events and their consequences, and prolonged inconveniences such as droughts, are natural disasters of similar character to earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions, in that in our present state of knowledge they can neither be predicted far ahead nor prevented once they are under way.

    The IPCC’s Plan A, therefore, is a dead parrot. For “greenhouse gas reduction”, by any means, becomes an irrelevancy when it can only deal with as-yet-unmeasured, human-caused global warming, at a time when the globe has been cooling for ten years.

  70. James P says:

    World Commission for Agricultural Meteorology

    How is that distinct from ordinary meteorology?

  71. Ray says:

    Tim Clark (12:28:08) :

    From the article:

    Late Thursday, Dr Salinger arrived home from NIWA for the last time. He may head the World Commission for Agricultural Meteorology, but now has no job to go to in his own country.

    Thanks Kiwis, your gift to the world will not go unrequited.
    —————
    The Farmer’s Almanach predictions never followed that if the IPCC. It seems that they have known all the time that this was natural and of course know very well that CO2 is good for the plants. I hope his new job won’t affect that if he stays on the dark side of the climate truth.

  72. neill says:

    The schadenfreude detectable hereabouts isn’t necessarily noble.

    But as prisoners of a perpetual underclass, used to being stifled by our ‘betters’ who have successfully gamed the system, it’s rather refreshing to see one of them get sent to the penalty box — for once.

    Hooray for our side!

    We’ll take ‘em where we can get ‘em. This isn’t pattycake.

  73. CodeTech says:

    Norm Beazer, if you’ll step off the soapbox for a moment… this isn’t about “stifling” someone, it’s about them using their role in a Government organization to advance an agenda. Just as many of these personalities have done and are doing.

    Personally I don’t care what he or Hanson have to say, they can shout it from the rooftops for all I care… just NOT ON GOVERNMENT LETTERHEAD.

  74. Kath says:

    I hate it when AGWers uses the word “consensus”.

    In the past, consensus by public and professionals deemed:
    a) The Earth is flat.
    b) The Sun orbited around the Earth.
    c) Galileo is a heretic.
    d) Bloodletting can be used to cure many ailments and diseases.
    e) Washing hands by doctors before operations and births is not necessary.
    and so on.

    Today all the above looks silly and quaint. Yet these statements were once believed by decision makers and rulers. Consensus without the backing of real and verifiable science and data (models do not count) is meaningless.

  75. James from NZ says:

    Norm Beazer (12.56)
    Jim S. must have been making public comments so far removed from the science taking place within NIWA that they had to sack him.. Perhaps a giant step for NASA and US science credibility if they adopted the same attitude.

  76. Ted Clayton says:

    Norm Beazer (12:56:29),

    I do agree with your protective stance on the matter of free speech. We don’t want governments or agencies using ‘protocol’ rules to stifle expression.

    There is a difficulty in our present case, because NIWA is not revealing the details of Dr. Salinger’s offences. We therefore can’t really determine whether he obviously did step over the line (possibly repeatedly, with warnings), or whether perhaps NIWA is trumping up excuses to go after the guy. (Or, as has been suggested by a previous commenter, that a combination of clumsiness by both Salinger and his superiors escalated in an unprofessional manner.)

    Still, agencies such as NIWA are not under an obligation to allow a longstanding employee to aggrandize his position into what can grow to become the equivalent of a government official, or Representative. A person in Dr. Salinger’s position – with 30 years tenure on the job and extensive social contacts – can use what is supposed to be a non-political, non-representational position within an agency like NIWA, to act as though he really is speaking for, on behalf of, or in an adversarial capacity against the government.

    If the WonderGreen Motor Company hires me to make a better tire for their cars, I am perfectly free to go on the air and talk about my love of wilderness and my efforts to protect penguins in Antarctica … but I am not free to engage in high level explorations of the potential to improve society, save the environment, etc by modifying the tires we put on cars. I agreed – explicitly or by implication & context – to allow my Boss to call the shots on what will and will not be discussed with the media or with other parties, on the subject of tire-improvements, when I took the job. So did Jim Salinger.

    In this case, it appears (we do not yet have the detailed facts) that Salinger has given himself permission to essentially become involved in the policy-phases of the role that NIWA plays within the government – a function that he quite likely does not properly hold, a prerogative that actually belongs with other people & offices.

    The job of the hired scientist is to conduct the science. Interpreting that science, or deciding how to use it to educate & guide the public, is quite another matter, one in which the government has a large stake, and often this function is one we citizens fully expect to be discharged by duly selected representatives & leaders of the people, which Mr. Salinger is not.

    Take another example: Methane Hydrates. We have a stupendous quantity of methane frozen into dirty, slushy ice beneath the ocean floor. It could fuel our civilization for a long time. The energy it contains could neutralize & remove the dangerous chronic issues of the Middle Eastern Oil Patch.

    We have scientists who do a lot of research on methane hydrates, who really know more about them than anyone else – but is it their place as public-employee scientists to lobby for their exploitation – or against any exploitation? No – what to do or not do with or about methane hydrates is a policy matter, and does not belong in the hands of the ‘hired brain’ that society has commissioned to look into the phenomenon of submarine hydrates.

    Does Dr. Salinger lose certain portions of the full scope of important rights that all of us hold dear, as a condition of the employment he has accepted & enjoyed these many years? Yes, he is subject to that compromise. Is it right that NIWA or higher authority vested in New Zealand can exercise control over the role he plays in the public sphere? Yes, it is: we expect the government to retain authority over policy.

    It is the de facto reality that organizations like Greenpeace are trying to effect policy and exert authority within many governments, around the world. This is improper. It could well even be subversive. To wield the powers to which they aspire, Greenpeace ought to run for elective office, and submit themselves to the ballot. But they don’t, you’ll notice.

    Greenpeace appears to be the primary champion of Dr. Salinger, following his dismissal, and that is probably because he is a major tool for effecting the role they would like to assign to themselves, in managing society as they see fit, without the inconvenience of winning the citizens’ vote.

    Notice that the former US Senator and Vice President, Al Gore, is currently wielding great power in the US government … having entirely abandoned the elective process (at which he nearly succeeded) and has now allied himself with non-governmental organizations. Al Gore is an example of the kind of problem we don’t want to see a Jim Salinger or Jim Hansen grow into.

    The potential for really unfortunate outcomes is real, and Al Gore is Exhibit A.

  77. Alan Wilkinson says:

    Salinger was an AGW propagandist but AFAIK reasonably competent and straight. There must be a lot more to this story than has come out so far.

    According to the media his comments that provoked the sacking had nothing at all to do with climate change. All government departments in NZ are now under heavy scrutiny for cost savings and bureaucratic redundancies are expected to be widespread.

    I think we must wait for more info before rushing to any conclusions on this story.

  78. Mike Lorrey says:

    I seem to recall a lot more free market / libertarian types got elected to parliament in NZ in the past year.

  79. Brendan H says:

    James from NZ: “Jim S. must have been making public comments so far removed from the science taking place within NIWA that they had to sack him.”

    There is no evidence of that. Chief Scientist David Wratt is a big wheel at the IPCC, and Salinger’s comments don’t seem to have departed much from policy.

    The news item mentions a “new policy” in regard to speaking to the media. This policy is possibly – although not necessarily – a response to the new government.

    The sacking has every appearance of an administrative matter. Salinger may well have been stepping on colleague’s toes in speaking on their specialty without clearance, but his departure isn’t likely to make any difference to NIWA’s position on climate.

  80. Allen63 says:

    Thing is, if Salinger is such a good Scientist, how come he crusades for the pro-AGW camp? A “good” Scientist would be among the “skeptics” — wouldn’t he?

  81. George E. Smith says:

    The very latest University Bulletin I received from the Uof A last week had a big story in which Helen Clark featured prominently; which is what led me to wonder if somehow she survived the election. I guess that bulletin takes a long time to put together, and get published. (I’m on their permanent mailing list).

    As for “Agricultural Meteorology”, plants grow in the ground mostly; and they couldn’t care less about the troposphere; well the upper anyway; so they care about the weather down there on the ground where the plants are.

    In fact that specialty is one of Dr Chris de Freitas’ principal climate interests.

    Greenpiece make a lot of noise in NZ. Their Flagship “Rainbow Warrior”; was bombed and sunk at the Auckland docks by French Government terrorists; without any declaration of War on New Zealand.
    Well that would be the only way the French could possibly win a war with New Zealand; Next time the get their A**** caught in the ringer; they better not count on any Kiwis coming to bail their sorry hides out of their mess.

    But If Salinger was a NZ Government employee; swilling at the public trough; then I would expect him to be bound by the house rules.
    As a private citizen, he of course has freedom of speech; that is not the same as using the power of his government job, and a very cushy one at that, to push his own radical agenda on those who pay his salary.

    George

  82. Rob says:

    alex verlinden (10:14:46) : said,

    however … I tried to confirm the link from a source at the P.A. of Sciences, but did not succeed … the “the Geologic Science Committee of the Polish Academy of Sciences” is mentioned, and I checked a website ” http://www.ing.pan.pl/index_E.htm ” , but I did not find any mention of the report … I wouldn’t know if that is the correct place to look …

    anybody interested and more succesfull ?

    tia

    Here is the link thanks to Luboš Motl.

    http://www.kngeol.pan.pl/images/stories/pliki/2.Stanowisko%20KNG%20w%20sprawie%20zmian%20klimatu.pdf

    and translation by Benny Peiser

    http://www.kngeol.pan.pl/images/stories/pliki/2.Stanowisko%20KNG%20w%20sprawie%20zmian%20klimatu.pdf

  83. Rod Smith says:

    For my money, it all boils down to a simple binary decision.

    Whether he thinks A or B has no bearing. If you follow the rules, you have a job — when you break the rules, then you don’t work here any longer.

  84. Nasif Nahle says:

    Allen63 (15:09:02) :

    Thing is, if Salinger is such a good Scientist, how come he crusades for the pro-AGW camp? A “good” Scientist would be among the “skeptics” — wouldn’t he?

    I agree… my mistake was on that I didn’t know he was working in AGW pseudoscience, which makes him not a truthful scientist. I’m sorry.

  85. Norm Beazer says:

    CodeTech:
    “. . . this isn’t about “stifling” someone, it’s about them using their role in a Government organization to advance an agenda. Just as many of these personalities have done and are doing.”
    No – I very much doubt this is correct. Have a look at the NIWA web page: the last time I looked they still had the hockey stick prominent, and they are firmly AGW. So is [was] Jim Salinger.
    “Personally I don’t care what he or Hanson have to say, they can shout it from the rooftops for all I care…” That is all very fine: my point is that denying the right to free expression to one group harms us all. The veneer of civilisation is rather thin at times.
    James from NZ:
    “Jim S. must have been making public comments so far removed from the science taking place within NIWA” I very much doubt this is so, Jim S is [was] very much part of the AGW team. Unless . . . unless he was in the throes of turning his views around ?? Interesting. His recent report on long term weather changes in parts of NZ having an effect on the production of beer could well have been a little tongue in cheek. Maybe, just maybe his views have changed, despite his previous involvement in the IPCC. We will just have to wait and see. But speculation is such fun . . .

  86. Jeremy says:

    I read that Jim Salinger is another person with a Nobel Prize for telling outright lies. Can this be true?

    The whole AGW thing is just as disgusting as investment banker’s paying themselves fat bonuses whilst they lose other people’s money and seek bailouts from tax payers. A scientific scam to divert funds from worthwhile causes into a personal gravy train for the alarmists.

    Darn right they should ALL be fired for telling such monstrous lies.

  87. janama says:

    One of New Zealand’s top climate scientists, Jim Salinger, has been fired from his job at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (Niwa).

    The high-profile scientist, whose work contributed to a Nobel prize, is reported to have been sacked for ignoring a new Niwa policy against speaking publicly without prior approval.

    “I can’t understand it, it’s not as though I’m doing bad science, it’s not as though I’m under-performing, so I’m really astounded,” Dr Salinger said on TV One News tonight.

    TV One said Niwa had accused Dr Salinger of serious misconduct after he took part in a programme the channel produced about glaciers.

    The Green Party said Dr Salinger was dismissed earlier this week for helping TVNZ weatherman Jim Hickey with climate-related inquiries.

    The scientist has frequently appeared in TV climate reports and has spoken in the media about climate change.

    “Niwa’s actions will make all government scientists nervous about their jobs,” said Green Party co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons.

    “New Zealand is on a slippery slope when trying to provide Kiwis with a greater understanding of our climate is a sackable offence.”

    Ms Fitzsimons said scientists should be able to help the public and the media with scientific problems, particularly around issues like climate change.

    “An investigation is needed into how it came to be that one of New Zealand’s foremost scientists was frog-marched out of his job for what appears to be trivial and petty reasons.”

    Ms Fitzsimons said the Minister of Research, Science and Technology, Wayne Mapp, should call in Niwa and tell them to “get to the bottom of this messy matter”.

    Greenpeace said it wanted answers from Niwa and the Government.

    “Dr Salinger has done some amazing work to educate New Zealanders about climate change and he is highly respected internationally,” said Greenpeace senior climate campaigner Simon Boxer.

    “He was very clear about the need for urgent climate action in New Zealand.”

    TV One reported Dr Salinger was considering claiming unjustified dismissal.

    – NZPA

  88. Neville says:

    The sacking of Salinger came two days after a new book debunking global warming was released in NZ, “Air Con: The Seriously Inconvenient Truth About Global Warming”, by an investigative journalist over here named Ian Wishart.

    My copy arrived by courier Thursday morning, and a friend at Parliament tells me the Government received a number of copies as well.

    Salinger is quoted in the book, quite usefully confirming the impact of the Little Ice Age on New Zealand’s glaciation (the same LIA that Mann and others tried to argue didn’t affect the southern hemisphere).

    The number one talk radio network yesterday was starting to buzz about the book, and a reviewer for one of the major book chains was on the radio saying it’ll be a number one bestseller – apparently books have been flying off the shelves.

    Seekbooks.com.au are stocking it, so I’m guessing it’s going onsale in Australia too.

    There’s a preview of Air Con at http://www.tbr.cc

    Maybe the tide on alarmism is turning…

  89. Lindsay H says:

    For 9 years NZ had an aggressively pro AGW Labour government, they couldn’t sign up for Kyoto quick enough, during those years thousands of positions in government departments have been filled with fellow travellers of dubious quality as the public sector grew by 50%.
    The incoming liberal /conservative National Government is busy replacing staff & stamping its authority on all departments, budget cuts are a certainty, job cuts will follow. NIWA bosses will be under the gun like everybody else Jim Salinger’s demise will be a clear warning to the AGW camp that the current government is much more sceptical about AGW and the need for Carbon taxes etc.
    Salinger was an AGW promoter as are a number of senior NIWA staffers but his demise will be a sharp reminder to others toe the line or else.

  90. Philip Mulholland says:

    James P (13:07:00) :

    Of course farmers have their own weather bureau.

    English society is a class society, strictly organised almost on corporative lines. If you doubt this, listen to the weather forecasts. There is always a different weather forecast for farmers. You often hear statements like this on the radio:

    “Tomorrow it will be cold, cloudy and foggy; long periods of rain will be interrupted by short periods of showers.”

    And then:

    “Weather forecast for farmers. It will be fair and warm, many hours of sunshine.”

    You must not forget that farmers do grand work of national importance and deserve better weather

    From How to be an Alien by George Mikes

  91. Steve Schapel says:

    By the way, you NZers out there… If you can be in Lower Hutt at lunchtime on Tuesday 5 May, Hungarian scientist Dr Miklos Zagini (who will be in Wellington to address the parliamentary ETS committee) will give a public presentation on “why greenhouse gases cannot cause climate change”. Shall I invite Jim Salinger?

  92. Roger Knights says:

    “Maybe the tide on alarmism is turning…”

    The warm is turning.

  93. Eric Chieflion says:

    Polish Academy of Sciences item #2 ignored the augmented impact of continental drift, potentially a significant contributing factor to the current ice age cycle.

    On another note, are we experiencing yet another “cyclical” change? During the Bush era, the media “sold” news by denigrating the Administration’s refusal to support AGW. Now that a pro-AGW Administration is in office, are they beginning to sell news by questioning Cap and Trade and other AGW inspired policies?

    One pebble does not a trend make, but one pebble an avalanche can make!

  94. Steve Schapel says:

    … oops! Sorry for typo, should be:
    Miklos Zagoni

  95. philincalifornia says:

    Steve Schapel (16:53:14) :
    By the way, you NZers out there… If you can be in Lower Hutt at lunchtime on Tuesday 5 May, Hungarian scientist Dr Miklos Zagini (who will be in Wellington to address the parliamentary ETS committee) will give a public presentation on “why greenhouse gases cannot cause climate change”. Shall I invite Jim Salinger?
    ——————————

    Go for it – the guy can always retool himself for a new career in “the coming ice age” doomsaying.

  96. Pat says:

    When I lived and worked in New Zealand I had the “good fortune” to work with people from the Department of Conservations (DoC) and NIWA. I found them to be the most biased, ignorant, closed minded and wasteful people I have ever met.

  97. CodeTech says:

    Norm Beazer, you didn’t quote the most important part of my comment:

    NOT ON GOVERNMENT LETTERHEAD.

    That means, these guys should be using their own resources to spread their unwarranted message of doom and gloom and catastrophe, not government resources and agencies. In the old days they’d be walking up and down the streets with a “The End Is Near” sign. Now they have direct access to the media and a voice of authority that is also called the bully pulpit.

    That is my position and I stand by it.

    It is not a violation of “free speech” to stop someone from using a position to advance a personal agenda. He and others are free to spread their message on their own.

  98. Ayrdale says:

    …as a Kiwi, I have point out that Jim Salinger has been lauded and defended by our Green party and his sacking is causing consternation at green friendly sites.

    We can only hope that green anxiety is warranted…

  99. Smokey says:

    Norm Beazer (12:56:29)

    “Whatever Jim’s views on climate he has always been a good humoured friendly presence on television and in print.”

    What crossed my mind when I read that was that Josef Stalin’s contemporaries said he had a wonderful singing voice.

    [I'm not disagreeing with you, Norm. Just sayin'...]

  100. Mike Borgelt says:

    George E. Smith (15:15:04) :
    When it comes to the French Secret Service vs Greenpeace it’s hard to figure out which side to support, although I lean towards the French. If they had really wanted to stop the Rainbow Warrior a couple of live torpedo rounds(“training”) from one of their nuclear boats in the middle of the Pacific at around 2am local would have done the job. Seems they were trying to send the Greenpeace kiddies a message by sinking the boat in the harbour. My understanding is the casualty went back on the boat to get his stuff after the first explosion. Stupidity really.

  101. Ken says:

    It is perhaps coincidental that Dr S, a member of the UN thinktank on climate change is dismissed as Helen Clark becomes head of the UNDEP. If the National government imagine there could be a UN conspiracy to hijack NZ’s climate policy, with outside pressure pushing from above assisted by an insider employee in an influential position pushing from below then they have acted to disarm this early on. What people may fail to realise is that NIWA’s mission statement is to be spokespeople for the environmental policy of the current government, whoever that is. There is no mission statement to the effect that individual state-salaried scientists are free to write privately to lobby media in the name of NIWA. Labour needed the Greens, National doesn’t, so National can more afford global warming skepticism until proven otherwise. Just because a person does a phD in global warming doesn’t mean he is correct, any more than if he did a degree in Creationism. It just means he is more likely to be employed by a government needing that kind of figurehead to write its policy reports in scientific jargon. As soon as the government changed Dr S should have started applying for other work. I sympathise with anyone losing their job, and I believe Dr S passionately believed whatever he said, but NIWA’s outlooks are so frequently incorrect the late Augie Auer called for the disbanding of the organisation. Whenever Dr S mentions NZ’s receding glaciers, when he doesn’t also mention all the advancing ones he displays a personal bias that is very bad science and bad for all science. Remember, the taxpayer pays his wages.

  102. wat dabney says:

    Bob Carter (linked to above) will be giving a talk at Waikato University in Hamilton NZ on April 30th this month, at 6.30pm.

  103. Gerard says:

    Evan Thornley a Victorian State Government Minister resigned his position to take a job with a French Electric Car provider while the his own government was negotiating with aforementioned French company ( although he denies any conflict of interest). However the reason for this post is that he now wants to fill Victoria Australia with useless windfarms to produce electricity for his electric cars – all to save the the planet from warming. This is the man that made a fortune in the dot com boom – I guess always the opportunist!

  104. Cassandra King says:

    I think there is more going on here than meets the eye, the BBC for instance is well known for its almost fanatical devotion to AGW/MMCC alarmism, it is also well known that they attack/demean/ignore individuals and governments that dare to contradict the AGW/MMCC doctrines.
    The BBC has engaged in the political game with a passion and its feasible that they would try to conspire with AGW believers within governments, the BBC is quite capable of this and I suspect other media tools of the ‘consensus’ are involved.
    When the current NZ government showed it was less than keen on destroying its economy on the alter of a dodgy theory/belief system the BBC started a campaign of first ignoring, undermining and then critisising the democratic NZ administration, concentrating on giving airtime only to those anti government elements within NZ, the narrative is clear here, toe the AGW line or face the consequences.
    The scary thing is that a multi billion pound media empire funded by enforced taxation can indulge in trying to destabilise a foreign government.

  105. James Allison from NZ says:

    Hi Cassandra
    From an interested Kiwi – Do you have any links to the BBC critisising NZ democratic administration?

  106. F.Ross says:

    A little OT but mentioned in several comments above.

    While most of sane people would be concerned at the effect of CO2 regulation on beer/ale, consider also that many baked goods [risen using yeast] also give off CO2, wine production ditto – you think the French will go along with no more wine?; CO2 fire extinguishers would be banned, dry ice would be a pollutant and no longer be available, CO2 is used as a shielding gas in many welding processes and so would affect many industries.

    Not to mention that plants love CO21

    I’m sure many readers could contribute many more affects of regulating CO2 – anyone?

  107. Bob D says:

    Neville (16:37:00) : The sacking of Salinger came two days after a new book debunking global warming was released in NZ, “Air Con: The Seriously Inconvenient Truth About Global Warming”, by an investigative journalist over here named Ian Wishart.
    There’s a preview of Air Con at http://www.tbr.cc

    I’ve just finished reading the book, and I would recommend it in general. He’s been careful to reference all his sources carefully, and being a journalist he has a fairly racy writing style. I think we’ll see the NZ Greens having a hernia soon about this one.
    Nevilee, your link doesn’t work (Server Error), but this one should:
    Air Con by Ian Wishart

  108. Andrew says:

    NZ has some of the most “employee favourable” employment legislation in the world.

    If NIWA have not followed the correct procedure Jim could yet get his job back. But he has been annoying people with his public statements for a while. Jim has been to NIWA what James is to NASA. An embarrassment

    This is a key point: In New Zealand, before anyone is dismissed, they generally have to have been through a process of numerous verbal and written warnings, although “serious misconduct” can lead to relatively instant dismissal. I doubt that they could argue that this was ‘serious misconduct’, and it sounds like he was warned several times. In short: I would guess that he had been told what not to do, and decided to do it anyway.

    And our ‘green’ party aren’t green – they’ve been taken over by the reds.

  109. Ron de Haan says:

    J. Peden (10:16:34) :

    ” Alec, a.k.a Daffy Duck (07:55:47) :

    … the news from Poland:

    Polish Academy of Sciences Questions Gore’s Man-Made Global Warming Theory
    By: Kevin Mooney
    Examiner Investigative Reporter
    04/24/09 9:18 AM
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html

    The Polish Academy’s 10 points are well worth a click! Thanks, Daffy.”

    Interesting piece of work.

    I have only missed mentioning the current cooling trend and the current state of the sun. After 10 years of NO warming this is worth mentioning.

    Knowing that you can’t win them all I really think this is an important step.

    On the other hand, Poland is highly depending on coal and they would benefit enormously if the EU climate madness would be called off.

  110. J.Hansford says:

    The trouble is all the AGW Greenie nutjobs are gonna leave NZ and come to Australia…. Can we stop AGW Greenie boat people too ;-)

  111. Jack Hughes says:

    Here is the bio page (from Google’s cache 12 April):

    “Jim’s interest in climate matters started early, whilst in the Deep South. It developed further when he built his own climate station in Dunedin, observing the warm nor’westers followed by the cold sou’westers that can blitz the southern provinces. It was put into practice when he expanded into tramping and gardening activities.

    A leading climate change expert, he has been involved in researching and monitoring past and current climate trends, as a university climate researcher, and later in the former New Zealand Meteorological Service.

    Jim now works as a senior climate scientist preparing climate updates, as well as leading various research projects on New Zealand climate change. “

  112. Pierre Gosselin says:

    At least the rule of law applies in NZ. Maybe we could expect the same in the USA.

  113. Cassandra King says:

    James allison NZ,

    Hello there, sorry no links!

    Form the the day that the BBCs favoured candidate lost the BBC have ignored the NZ legitimate administration, check the BBC website for hisorical articles, they recently offered a platform to discuss SH AGW the only guests were the party that lost the election and the greens.
    Check out BBC world and the website it will surprise you.

  114. Pamela Gray says:

    OT: What is the streak on the magnetogram and LASCO C3? Did it capture a comet?

    http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html

  115. Andrea says:

    Hi all, I have a question. Total Solar Irradiance has been diminishing over the past months and now is about 0.6 W/m^2 lower then the average. How this will influence climate? The answer is not trivial and all depends on the nature of “earth+atmosphere” system. Assuming that actual climate is defined by an equilibrium position of this system we must investigate how this position is influenced by initial conditions such as TSI and others. In other words a little variation on the initial conditions may lead either to big variations on the earth mean temperature (if we the system is in a stable equilibrium position) or to little variations on mean earth temperature (if the system is in an unstable equilibrium position). Is there anyone who knows something more concerning this interesting topic?

  116. Pierre Gosselin says:

    I really hate to say it, but Hansen and Gore etc. remind me of the novel: Lord of the Flies, where an out-of-control authority is blindly followed by drones. They are really that dangerous I believe.

  117. Troy Heidecker says:

    As a Ozie its my job to diss the Kiwi’s. But I do know they were the first to give women the vote and first to work 8hr days, first to climb Mt Everest and maybe the first to fly(http://history-nz.org/firsts.html ) Maybe they are also the first to sack charlatan scientists and look at the facts as well.
    Doubly scary the new government is no doing mass fiscal stimuluses doling out money rather looking for ways to make their country more viable and competitive… never know the brain drain across the ditch looks like it may turn around .,

  118. neill says:

    Norm Beazer (16:04:28) :

    ‘“Personally I don’t care what he or Hanson have to say, they can shout it from the rooftops for all I care…” That is all very fine: my point is that denying the right to free expression to one group harms us all. The veneer of civilisation is rather thin at times.’

    But the free expression of that one group in the scientific community which is critical of AGW is systematically and institutionally suppressed…..yesterday, today and tomorrow. THAT harms us all.

    No one takes satisfaction in Dr. Salinger’s personal misfortune. Further, AGWers hardly lack free expression as a group. It is the prospect of a shift in the debate, that our voice is getting stronger, that is encouraging.

  119. neill says:

    A GOP House source told Climate Depot that the Democrats on the Committee said “absolutely not” to allowing Monckton to appear during today’s Gore hearing. The GOP committee “pushed at multiple levels” to bring Monckton in to testify but the Democrats “refused,” according to the GOP source. Former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich was called in to testify after Monckton was rejected by the committee Democrats, according to the Congressional source.]

    “The Democrats have a lot to learn about the right of free speech under the US Constitution. Congress Henry Waxman’s (D-CA) refusal to expose Al Gore’s sci-fi comedy-horror testimony to proper, independent scrutiny by the House minority reeks of naked fear,” Monckton said from the airport Thursday evening.

    “Waxman knows there has been no ‘global warming’ for at least a decade. Waxman knows there has been seven and a half years’ global cooling. Waxman knows that, in the words of the UK High Court judge who condemned Gore’s mawkish movie as materially, seriously, serially inaccurate, ‘the Armageddon scenario that he depicts is not based on any scientific view,’” Monckton explained. Monckton has previously testified before the House Committee in March.”

    Presumably, that was before former committee head Dingell was dispatched in a coup, in favor of the more radical Waxman.

    The last thing AGWers want is a genuine debate.

  120. Ted Clayton says:

    Andrea (06:38:59),

    You reference a 0.6 W/m^2 reduction of incoming energy, which sounds like about 1/500th the averaged incidence.

    The story I have long been told is the answer to go with, and have recently seen repeated (in conjunction with the low activity of Cycle 24), is that variation on this scale is not significant, that it is too far down in the ‘grass’ of background noises that influence climate.

    This becomes an issue, because people notice climate variations in the record which correspond with solar cycles. But the straight physics read says, ‘No, this should not do anything’.

    Yet obviously, correlations with solar cycles remain. So, we see efforts to find a solar causation, by e.g. invoking changes in cosmic ray penetration through a charge-reduced upper atmosphere, creating more clouds at low level (just like the dry-ice cloud-chamber in high school physics). Could be, sounds nifty.

    Lorentz is of course famous for using the analogy of a butterfly’s wings over the Pacific Ocean, creating or halting major weather systems. Is this what you are pointing to? If so, I think in the case of this particular putative ‘flutter’, we have not yet found the butterfly (which doesn’t mean one isn’t there..).

    But everyone I see weigh in on it, says 0.6 W/m^2 etc won’t “drive” the observed effect. That’s only a small fraction of 1%, and the stern physics types say it will take something like a 2-4% solar variation (a good order of magnitude more), before we expect to see it even start to drive climate.

  121. Shane says:

    It seems to me that the fact that the Academy of Sciences of a major European Nation (Poland) has just called AGW bunk, if the link is to be believed, is a huge development.

    Anthony, perhaps it is worthy of a thread in its own right.

    The link is here again.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html

    Shane

  122. Ian Cooper says:

    As a New Zealander I was quite amazed to hear that Dr Salinger was sacked. I did miss the first ten minutes of the 6p.m. news tonight (Sunday N.Z. time). I had the pleasure of meeting Dr salinger at a local meeting in Palmerston North back in March 2003 at the height of our last big drought, a drought that NIWA didn’t predict but that many of us canny lay people saw coming a few months earlier (the product of long memories and living in one area for a few decades). A nice guy to be sure, but he didn’t inspire me with his knowledge then, and hasn’t done so since.

    I managed to record a news item from MSM TV on March 7th, 2009 regarding receeding glaciers in the Southern Alps. It featured an aging NZ glaciologist by the name of Trevor Chinn who had been photographically logging mountain glaciers in the Southern Alps for just over 30 years. After a period of time Mr Chinn came to the conclusion that photos taken at the end of the southern summer (presumably March 1st since glaciologists and meteorologists have been out of sync with astronomers for some time) show whether or not the glaciers are receeding or advancing if they are above or below a certain altitude. Having worked this out Mr Chinn could then make pronouncements upon the state of the climate, for the Southern Alps at least ( not that he said that). Flying around they were able to show us all the shocking sight of miniscule glaciers clinging to the tops of mountains. A map was provided that showed the locations of 50 monitored glaciers. Then the beaming, hawkish face of Dr Jim Salinger appeared to give added authority to the pronouncements of the spry Mr Chinn. Jim said, “We have to do the calculations, but maybe another Rangitoto’s worth in terms of ice volume loss (Rangitoto is a large shield vocanoe in the harbour just east of Auckland, N.Z.’s largest city). The reporter then made the announcement that, “It is estimated that 100 years ago there were 100 cubic kilometers of snow and ice in the Southern Alps, now we are down to less than half of that.” I didn’t realize that Richard Pearce’s plane could even get that high, if he flew at all, and his camera must have been state of the art too!

    Dr Jim came onto say, ” We’ve only had about 1 degree ( C of warming) since 1900 and if we have had that amount of loss of ice mass, then another degree or two we are going to lose more.”

    The final comments from Mr Chinn and someone else in the plane are telling. Mr Chinn states whilst viewing another glacier, “They’ve bloody well wrecked the glacier!” The other voice yells in confirmation over the noise of the engines, “They HAVE wrecked the glacier!!”

    I’ll leave it up to you figure out who, “They,” are.

    I checked out some of the glaciers positions from a good topo map. Most of the glaciers are on the eastern side of the main divide of the Southern Alps. The prevailing weather for N.Z. mainly comes from the west. The two glaciers that I was interested weren’t mentioned, namely Franz Josef and Fox on the west coast of the South Island. Both of these glaciers have been rapidly advancing since the mid 1980’s, when I made my first visit there. From what I can gather NIWA & others state that these two anomalies are the result of strong El Nino events (1982-83 and 1998 perhaps). It takes about 5 years for the rain that falls as snow at the top, or neve of these 2 glaciers to manifest itself in movement at the bottom, or terminal face. Mr Chinn mentioned the eastern glaciers moving up to 10 metres over a year. He failed to mention the rate of 100’s of m/year that FJ & Fox have been moving. I will be watching for some great movement of both of these glaciers in 4.5 years time based upon the huge rainfalls that South Westland received six months ago during our souuthern spring, at the end of a strong La Nina too BTW. From what I have read here elsewhere, glaciers like FJ & Fox, in narrow, steep valleys and very deep by nature are a better indicator of regional climate than the broader, thinner glaciers typical of the eastern side of the divide.

    This small news item is a typical example of Dr Jim abusing his position as a govt. employee to help push the barrow of the AGW zealots like Trevor Chinn. If he was sacked because he thought he was above the law so to speak, then so be it. His little sound bite was not “good science.” Far from it. He did the people who pay his salary, the tax payers of New Zealand a great dis-service by telling only part of the story, and making pronouncements before, “the calculations had been done.” By implication Dr Jim was stating that all he had to do was to dot the i’s and cross the t’s and we could all go home. The good scientists are looking after us. No need for you lay people to worry your silly little heads. We’ve got it under control. In the meantime NIWA still can’t predict the ‘climate’ (i.e a bunch of weather situations) for the next three months accurately, again!

    Cheers

    Coops

  123. B E Brill says:

    As Science Minister, I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days in 1981 with Trevor Chinn’s project measuring glaciers in Victoria Land, Antarctica. As he demonstrated, these glaciers had been retreating consistently throughout the 60s and 70s – now seen as a cooling period.

    For those who asked, – there has never been any doubt that Jim Salinger was a convinced disciple of the AGW sect. And very proud of his Nobel Prize certificate.

  124. Macro says:

    ~snip~ No personal attacks, please.

  125. Ian Cooper says:

    For anyone interested in seeing the news item that I mention above from March 7th this year go to this url

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glaciers-reveal-global-warming-effects-2523793/video

    You can watch the Trev & Jim show and judge for yourself.

    To the Honourable Mr Brill, even Franz Josef & Fox were retreating during those decades. Where messers Chin & Salinger fail the N.Z. public is not mentioning that glaciers in N.Z., and around the world, have been receeding since at least the 1880’s, some 70 years before the AGW proponents believe the influence of man took centre stage. Perhaps that sort of knowledge is a bit dangerous for Joe & Joesephine Public to have. It may lead to difficult questions that they freely admit they can’t answer, like what caused the glaciers to recede prior to AGW?

    Our previous Prime Minister climbed Mt Kilamanjaro some time ago and shook her head at what “they” had done to cause the snows to disappear from that lofty mountain. This must be the same “they,” that Trev & Jim allude to in the news item. Perhaps Helen wasn’t informed by her experts that the snows of Kilamanjaro had been receeding since the 1880’s also, and not just since 1950.

    “They, ” of course are “We!” We, the other people who continue to prosper from the efforts of our forebears in a way that those forebears would expect us to, as opposed to those who think that we should all feel guilty for the prosperity that we now enjoy. Those who think we should endure poverty, famine and deprivation in the name of saving the planet, all the while giving each other fatuous awards on our behalf. No thanks.

    In the end Jim you failed as a scientist. You failed to show enough continuing scpticism ‘a good scientist’ would.

  126. Bob says:

    Jin Salinger was fired for giving weather information away for free when the firm he works for wants to sell it to TV channels.

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