277 thoughts on “Hot Propaganda – coming soon to a TV near you

  1. That was disgusting.

    They are truly getting desperate, aren’t they?

    That means objective reason may be slowly winning, after all.

  2. It may be my imagination but that chunk of ice about 21 seconds into the clip sort of looks like a double-faced evil person with horns.

  3. Let me get this right. If land areas warm up, they get ….dryer? Then why was the Sierra Desert growing green plants when IT was warmer than it is now? I actually laughed at the polar bear taking a spill off the edge of the ice. That was a funny tumble! And the Kangaroo waiting for a train. Wonder what station he was waiting at in Australia’s interior part of the continent? However, the monkey hanging himself was such a prize. Hanging himself with dried old vines attached to a dead thin tree branch. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how much even an emaciated full grown chimp weighs?

  4. Has anybody considered what our options are once Obama gets into office and these cap-and-trade bills and other CO2 limiting bills start becoming law?

    Could we take this issue to court?

  5. Ohhh! If the video wasn’t already so bad, the logo in the end is from a Portuguese environmental organization, Quercus! And I’m Portuguese! I feel so ashamed right now…

  6. Pamela Gray asks:

    And the Kangaroo waiting for a train. Wonder what station he was waiting at in Australia’s interior part of the continent?

    There is a line from Darwin to Adelaide via Alice Springs, right through the middle of Australia, and then there are lines into Queensland, eg from Townsville to Mt Isa, or from Brisbane to Cunamulla and Winton etc. There is also a line in NSW to Broken Hill, and so forth.

  7. Hey cartoon polar bear – maybe it had something to do with the carbonated sodas you and your cubs have been pushing for a decade or so. Too bad so sad you got your cartoon comeuppance. I would have preferred the traditional anvil drop, however.

  8. That is just sick. People that make that stuff have some issues that would be better suited for a Mental Institution than ad making.

  9. Unfortunately, many ADULTS in the USA will believe every word. I have heard dozens of interviews of people that voted for BO who had no idea who Joe Biden or Sarah Palin were.

  10. So is this how species become extinct? They commit suicide.

    I have about 20″ of global warming in my yard from todays So. California snow storm, nice job predicting this storm by the OWS weather guy.

  11. Just goes to show if you can’t fight with facts a picture is worth a thousand words. You can’t be accused of lying and unfortunately it works.

  12. This reminds me of the old Indian with the teardrop running down his cheek as he watches real pollution.
    Now we have a parade of suicidal, cartoon (not real) animals, offing themselves at some future (not real) point in time, which has supposedly been caused by pollution (not really, it’s plant food), because we were all too selfish to accept the fall of western civilization. Really…

  13. That comment about pictures instead of facts brings up another comment. Most of the pictures are cartoon characters. Is that in and of itself a commentary on whether or not the populace as a whole can distinguish between fantasy and reality?

  14. Nothing works like anthromorphizing wild animals to get sympathy for your cause. Today’s cartoon-loving movie-goers will eat this up. As they pay that extra 50% carbon cap tax for heating their living quarters, driving their vehicle, preparing their next meal, taking a bath, lighting the room, flushing the toilet, etc. etc. etc. I predict there won’t be a dried up tree for the monkey to hang himself from — we’re going to be burning every scrap of wood available to keep warm soon. Kangaroos? There won’t be any, we will be eating them for food. Polar bears? Man-eating polar bears? Who cares? When they jump off the last iceberg, I won’t miss ‘em one bit. And neither will the people they keep trying to eat.

  15. Now, if only we can get the Greenies to do what the cartoon animals were doing in that vid… The world would be a better place… So, if yer green an’ feeling down…. You know what to do. Your own mob have shown you the way. Don’t let us stop ya!

    I don’t know where these guys are living, but outside my place it’s green and the weather is great. The Kangaroos look happy…. They’re on the golf coarse laying in the shade as fat as mud.

  16. That has to be one of the stupidest commercials I’ve ever seen. By their reasoning, we should actually push for global warming because it gives animals such amazing cognitive abilities! So smart they know when to give up, and how!

  17. Mark 19:48:56–Yes, there is something you can do. Write to your Congressmen and tell them about what this AGW is nothing but Theories, not Facts. If you don’t like writing, email them or call them. I email mine thru Conservative site. I’ve been passionate about this Issue and ALL of My representatives know how I feel. Check this out on the latest Cost feascal..

    http://ecoworld.com/blog/2008/12/09/how-much-for-a-degree/

  18. Pamela,
    The first take was with a real polar bear.

    But he ate some of the crew and made popsicles for a treat later.

    That left only enough money in the budget for computer animation.
    (which, from a technical standpoint was pretty good)

    We have received the most snow in the high deserts of Ca than I can remember since 1993.

    Of course, we wouldn’t have snow at all if it wasn’t getting warmer!

    And those Siberians are shooting for the -60C December record, and coming close to it!

  19. My wife is a lawyer who defends people unjustly accused of child abuse and neglect. The Child Protective Service people she battles share a mindset with some of the AGW folk – both groups are certain they’re right, both know the end justifies the means. A big difference is that CPS tends to hide behind a legal veil of secrecy, but the AGW crowd has to continually recruit.

    This video is the sort of thing CPS might produce (replace animals with children) to recruit new foster contractors and case workers. I decided to get more involved in climate issues in large part because there is science behind it instead of the steady mantra of “our children are our next generation”. Tactics like these smack of desperation and putting emotion far above the science. This is so far beyond people’s perception of Global Warming (such as it has been lately) that I hope it will have the opposite impact and show the AGW believers as far worse crackpots than anything Al Gore has called his opponents.

    More on New Hampshire’s CPS, the Division of Children, Youth, and Families is at http://wermenh.com/dcyf_tricks.html and too many other pages around my site.

  20. Here in the Seattle area we are alternating between snow and Modified Artic Air with daytime highs below normal nighttime lows, 36F, if not below 32F and nighttime lows in the teens and twenties, since Dec. 14. It’s not going to get back to normal temps and dear old rain for at least ten days. I’m having a battle to keep my water pipes from freezing. If the electricity goes it’s going to be challenging. The roads are skating rinks. Global Warming, my fundament.

  21. J. Hansford,

    Look at Australia’s anomalies over the last 30 years.

    Not really a whole bunch of change.

    Mike

  22. Mike Bryant (20:23:21) :

    This reminds me of the old Indian with the teardrop running down his cheek as he watches real pollution.

    Yeah, but that was effective because people could watch it and see a path to fix the problem. In the cartoon, the animals die and it’s too late to change things. The cartoon offers only despair, the Indian offered sadness and guilt, but also motivation to fix things.

  23. Disturbing little video. This chimp hanging himself was a classy touch. It would be comical, but when shown to children (including the older variety) this kind of propoganda does harm.

  24. CGI is expensive. Where are these guys getting their money from. There’s this seemingly never-ending torrent of cash pouring out of somewhere.

    The banks and the automakers didn’t think their well could ever run dry though. So when the cash finally stops flowing even into the bottomless pit of Warmism are these environmental groups going to need a bailout?

  25. Joseph Goebbels would be proud. I wanna go vomit now. Funny, the polar bear diving into the ocean…so he can swim a good 100km to the nearest landmass or next icepack. Cause God knows, the species name isn’t Ursus maritimus ::rolls eyes::

  26. The disgusting ad is a silent commentary on:
    (a) the admaker’s perception of the public’s stupidity;
    (b) the stupidity of the viewers who will believe it;
    (c) the cynicism of the admaker himself;
    (d) all of the above.

    Where is this all going?

  27. Biggest PROPAGANDA piece ever.

    They better give that and ‘R’ rating, and if they ever show that to children under 15yrs they should be taken to court within an inch of their lives, as it would be considered Child Abuse to show such disgusting images.

  28. BTW the “Old Indian” with the tear was Iron Eyes Cody-who wasn’t even an
    Native American (I prefer that myself as I’m part Cherokee) he was of Italian
    extraction.I lost a stepson to teenage suicide-by hanging.This is a sick,sick
    ad..
    Oh,Pamela,got snow?
    Just starting here in La Grande…

  29. Anthromorphizing, making these animals so much more pathetic, cuddly even….even if it is animated it is designed solely for an emotional repsonse. People all too often act on emotion vice rational thought when it comes to issues this complex.

    All I can do is shake my head, show it to my son and explain why AGW and this kind of tripe is all garbage – and not to fall for the things they “teach” in school about it.

  30. That add would have cost a heck of a lot of money to make and will cost a lot more to broadcast. Who is funding this?

  31. Wow. Just… wow.

    Fortunately for real animals, they tend to not be as weak-minded as us humans, and so they actually won’t be offing themselves as soon as things get a litle rough.

    I don’t get a couple things, though. I mean, a Polar Bear.. OK. And everyone likes monkeys. But a kangaroo? When did we start sympathizing with the plight of the kangaroo?

    I posted this in another thread, but it was kind of out of place there. It fits in much better here. Speaking of propaganda, check out the new “musical” some schools are sponsoring: “Santa Goes Green.” I linked to a clip of the music. You have to listen to that.

    And then, there’s an unrelated book by the same name that apparently is flying off the shelves.

    http://digitaldiatribes.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/santa-goes-green/

    Full indoctrination is in motion.

  32. That was the funniest thing I have seen in months. Only someone with a heart of stone could resist laughing out loud.

  33. Given the number of roos killed on the roads in Oz (a lot of us have roo bars on the front of our vehicles) I think the end of the world has already come.

  34. Dear Pamela Grey. Kangaroos are found right inside of cities in Australia. I saw one from my front verandah by the lake two weeks ago and I live in the Northern suburbs of Brisabane. They are everywhere in Australia. Come on down! It is forecast to be 95 degrees farenheit tomorrow.

  35. This panders to the people Jay Leno interviewed on his “Jay Walk.”
    Unfortunately, they are in the majority now…thanks to 2 generations of “Progressive Education”…

  36. Dear Pamela . Sorry for all of the typos, I cannot see my keyboard for the sweat running into my eyes. But please come on down. I feel for you with all of that freezing weather. I have read many of your posts and I feel that you get a little bit fed up now with the frost and the snow.The white beaches here are but 10 minutes drive from my home and Brisbane is sunnier than Florida (I am not rubbing it in, I am just trying to promote Australia; a country that I love).

  37. Oh no, I’ve been proved wrong again. I thought all that warming would increase the amount of evaporation and there would be lots of rain and everywhere would be green and there would be dynosaurs all over the place and the world would be a much better place without all those mammals.

  38. I’m reminded of the ad from the early 70’s that had the small kid taking about how there would be no oil to make gas from when he grew up.

  39. How is it that the polar bear had so much ice to fall from? Isn’t it all supposed to have disappeared and raised the sea levels – wait a minute, most of Australia’s interior is below sea level so how come the kangaroo did not drown?

    And with the recent ruling that cartoon characters are people (www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24767202-2,00.html), what viewer rating will be placed on this ad?

  40. Now I understand clearly the hopless circunstance of people under dictatorial regimes. What can a normal people do when submited to a continuous missinformation with no other refferences ?. Goebbles is here again, and unfortunately for long time .

  41. Does anyone know where this advert is going to be shown? In Portugal? Elsewhere?

    They could also do one about Santa Claus getting depressed and dousing himself with petrol and setting himself on fire. If you believe animals get depressed then you can just as easily believe in Santa. Or for a more hard hitting image, Santa could walk into a crowded city and open his big coat to reveal a massive suicide bomber’s belt. Santa hits back at consumerist humanity! All those toys children–ever stop to think what they cost the environment?? The scene fades to dark and the air is left filled with echoes of a sarcastic “Ho Ho Ho”.

  42. Well, people don’t read anymore – they don’t think – they just watch – pictures, TV, animations – something that doesn’t require too much brain power – and they merely react, if even that.

    It’s called (60+ years of) social conditioning – social engineering – compartmentalization, folks… do names like B. Russell, G. Orwell and A. Huxley ring any bells? How about the Fabian Society?

    The “science people” are in their own little compartments and labs while “PR(opaganda) people” are in their far bigger ones – the UN, EU, White House, TV, Hollywood, major banks, big-buck think-tanks and financial institutions, transnational corporations, NGOs etc. – and someone still thinks they can convince these people with “good science”?

    Well, just consider that as a rhetorical question – but I guess you can’t get any more “optimistic” (“illusioned”?) than that…

    “I want you to get mad” at
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechnetwork2.html ;)

  43. I hope they didn’t use my tax dollars for that disgusting piece of propaganda.

    Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies.

    Climate always changes, the science is clear.
    Please take the politics, money $$$$$$$$ to be made by Rockefeller out of this, and start using rational, factual based evidence.

  44. This is ridiculous! At 0:19 it is quite funny,,, that does not look like a polar bear, it looks like a giant white rodent O_o
    And remember that article , where alarmists urged people to eat Kangaroos to stop gw! This is just cheese

  45. Unfortunately I know the exact target audience for this type of information – my 14 year old neice.
    She claimed the other day that all cows should be killed because of their methane and contribution to global warming.

    She is a relatively smart kid, but hasn’t yet developed any capacity for critically assessing what an expert is saying – she was arguing with me (PhD geologist / geochemist) that ‘scientists’ say they can predict the next eruption of Vesuvius (where she’s going on a trip with school) with 2 weeks warning. I tried telling her that this was little more than an educated guess, and that these scientists are actually looking forward to the next eruption (and next big Californian quake) because they’ll learn so much about how to predict the following one.

  46. Who are these Quercus bozos?
    Where do they get their money from?
    If it’s the Government, I want a refund.

  47. Mikey (21:34:25) :
    CGI is expensive. Where are these guys getting their money from. There’s this seemingly never-ending torrent of cash pouring out of somewhere.

    Soros, for one, and the Hollywood Glitterati for a lot more. There is no shortage of guilt money available from the limousine liberals.

    Soros made his massive millions / billions by taking down the British Pound a long time ago. Shorted it to oblivion. Nice guy … /sarcoff>

  48. Miguel (00:09:35) :

    Goebbles is here again, and unfortunately for long time .

    If you knew what this maniac and his ilk did in living memory you would not be comparing his actions to this video. I am actually disgusted the moderators let these slip when I have been chastised for using the word ‘denier’ (using it in its correct context and definition I hasten to add) in previous posts. I would suggest the moderators here bear in mind the damage that comments such as Miguels do to this blog.

    REPLY: Mary, I disagree. And what bothers me the most about your comment is that you don’t seem to care at all about the content of the video, and then practice being a victim because you’ve been chastised in the past. The reference (and title) is about propaganda. Its valid to cite those who used propaganda as tool, “in its correct context and definition”. Get over it. – Anthony

  49. Only someone’s imagination could create that video. As such, global warming is not as dire as the video or someone’s imagination portrays. It is anything but that. Besides, you could weep over any of life’s injustices…like death and so forth…but why? It is how it is…and we should just flow with it. Or snow with it…kind of like Eastern Washington’s massive snowfall (Wednesday through Thursday) this week….

    ^_^

  50. Brooklyn Red Led/bmcburney/Pameal Gray:-)

    I fully agree, Goebbels would be turning in his grave for failing to realise the power he could have obtained in his day using the techniques advertisers use today!

    I think the monkey was a chimp Pamela, but to be honest I think I must be one of those poor dumb Brits who lost the plot, sorry chaps, I was laughing so much I thought this was an extract from the latest Disney Christmas holiday offering to take the kids to! I think the chimp should have had a half-empty bottle of JD for even greater effect, but of course that might encourage the little ones to become raving alcoholics so perhaps not! Now, the kangaroo should have called the polar bear to bring the ice down, the chimp could then join in with his bottle of JD & they could have had a ball. What was it Bert Onestone said, “a scientific consenus can be undone by a single fact!”

    Here in UK CJD has surfaced again, apparently. New scary storey for the Christmas holiday, no real news from the Poznan summit & its outcomes, (I do hope thoses 10,000 delegates/supporters get their expenses forms filled in before the Chrimbo hols or they won’t be able to benefit from all that taxpayers dosh!), cold weather everywhere, officially the coldest start to winter/December for 30 years, but lets not stop scaring folks, I wonder what I could spread a rumour about to frighten everyone into not buying it? Takes their simple minds off the economic crisis I suppose. Apparently this cold & frost & snow demonstrates that waming is happening faster than experts expected!

    Hasse@Norway, that’s probably why there was only one polar bear, one chimp, & one kangaroo, the mosquitos got the others.

    Must go, the sea is lapping at the door, I dare say 6 hours later it will recede, then 6 hours later it will be back again. Good ol AGW.

  51. Unfortunately that video has been haunting around for quite some time. It was tasteless the first time I saw it… It’s still tasteless now.

  52. Photoshop. Do they have a video equivalent?

    Because this thing is screaming for an edit.

    a rewrite?

    Lets assume that there were a grandstand and instead of it being some benighted future time, the scene of apocalyptic drought is a Marine World Climate Change exhibit. The Monkey lands on a mattress off stage, like a carnival magician. At the end of the show Al Gore passes the collection plate to his audience of Marin County true believers.

    Needs work – I know.

  53. The UK press today, is reporting on the increase in hospitalisations causing great strain upon the NHS system.
    The reason?
    The abnormal cold start to December means more elderly people are having falls and chest infections.

  54. What an appropriate category – ridiculae.

    I had a few other thoughts I was going to share, but I’ll self-snip those and blame them on those cold/flu meds.

  55. This just proves the AGW folks are no longer capable of making a cogent argument based on the “facts”, particularly now that the data show a downward trend in global temperatures.

  56. The video makes an interesting point. By showing us what animals manifestly do not do it makes the point the we are the only species that cares, that is capable of caring, that will ever care. No other species gives a damn. Rubbishing humans as the environmentalist lobby and AGW proponents do is deeply counter-productive if you care about the planet and its occupants.

    Rich

  57. Ian B: “Unfortunately I know the exact target audience for this type of information – my 14 year old neice.”

    This is exactly why this is not a laughing matter.

    F Rasmin:”Brisbane is sunnier than Florida ”

    And you have vegamite sandwiches, what ever the hell they are.

  58. Anthony,
    They did not show the full edition.
    This is a pharmaceutical promotion for veterinary version of Prozac.
    It’s also effective against a number of human anxieties like Global Warming Hysteria and the Climate Change Syndrome.
    It’s highly recommended and more Alarmists should take it.

  59. Wow! That was classic and very strange. So much so I had to comment. Suicidal animals? I recall reading an article in defense of lemmings a few weeks back. AGW … ?

    Meanwhile, folks are snowed under in Las Vegas and that isn’t a euphemism for drugs.

    Anthony, your work is a public service thanks for your gallant efforts to fight fatalism.

    Sincerely,
    CW

  60. Excerpts from http://www.earth-condominium.com/engl/quercus.html Quercus’ “The Declaration of Principles”:

    PREAMBLE

    Mankind lives in a moment of decisive turning in its history.
    For the first time it is legitimate to speak of a common future to all women and men of the human kind. Today, contrary to what always happened in previous historic times, technical, scientific, politic and economic transformations do not take centuries or millenniums to show and produce effects at the global scale. Great changes in our time become planetary, in its positive and negative consequences, in real time.

    Nevertheless, it is increasingly evident that the world growing public awareness of environmental problems is far from achieving the necessary positive reflex in practical terms, and if this doesn’t happen it will not be possible to reverse the disruptive trend that shape contemporary history.

    PRINCIPLES

    Sixth
    Quercus bases all its actions in a scrupulous respect for intellectual honesty and rigour that all critic and/or constructive intervention implicate.

    Seventh
    Quercus considers as a valuable work method the dialogue and the eventual cooperation in the development of specific projects with a collective interest and approach with all entities, institutions and individuals involved in the definition and implementation of a sustainable environmental policy in Portugal, what, nonetheless, should never compromise the right to a fair and timely critic.

    Eighth
    Quercus considers indispensable, in order to fulfil its objectives, the scientific community insight and the exercise of a healthy interdisciplinary spirit.

  61. What a disgusting piece of propaganda. The AGW crowd must be getting desperate to put on a full press like this before people realize our planet is now cooling.

  62. Ric Werme (21:19:55) :

    My wife is a lawyer who defends people unjustly accused of child abuse and neglect. The Child Protective Service people she battles share a mindset with some of the AGW folk – both groups are certain they’re right, both know the end justifies the means.

    Ric…I have had to do joint inspections with ‘Animal Control’. Watching their fanaticism as they seize dogs and cats from little old ladies, who have taken in more strays than they can care for, was a real eye opener for me. The animals are everything! The people seem to have no rights at all! After a couple raids like that, I finally felt I had some understanding of witch burnings….. This is a sick cartoon by some seriously sick people…one can only wonder if their religion will someday lead to car bombs in the name of the earth……..
    cdl

  63. It’s pure, unadulterated climate porn, used for motivating the already-brainwashed (and brain-dead), and further frightening children into becoming the new army of climate brownshirts. Yes, the AGW crowd have no moralality whatsoever. The ends justify the means for them, which is fascism.
    Love the comments, but when I saw Perry Debell’s “Quercus cwapus” I laughed out loud. Brilliant.

  64. Re: Las Vegas snow.

    How rare is such an event at any time of year, let alone in the first half of December? So rare that, according to an article in the local Daily Rag, McCarren Airport has no snow removal equipment and no de-iceing capability. And Clark County deploys a fleet of two snow plows and two graders.

    I wonder if they take over/under bets on snow accumulation.

  65. Do you think that this will get Al Gore to reduce his carbon footprint to less than that of the average American?

  66. Mary if people study history they will see that before it became public knowledge that goebbles and his boss were killing millions of people they were considered as ideals by many of the liberal elite in the us and other countries. The only difference is these people haven’t resorted to murder.

  67. With the animal intelligence demonstrated I’m not sure whether we have a new voting block or clientele for a mental health service.

  68. Off Topic…

    Here is a simple question that I hope will generate a healty exchange of ideas:

    Is the Pacific Ocean cooling or not?

    Mike

  69. So if you’re ever confronted by a grizzly bear, play dead.

    If you’re confronted by a duck, tell him you’d like to buy supplemental insurance.

    If you’re confronted by a parachuting cow, tell him you eat chikin.

    If you’re confronted by a polar bear, just tell him that you give up and he’ll wander off to the nearest cliff.

    I think I got it now.

  70. Please mark “FLAG” on the YouTube version, as inciting youth to suicide.

    Polar bears can swim!

  71. Pamela Gray

    Thanks for the clarification. My thought was that Algore was being hanged in effigy.

    Mark
    The trio of Chu, Jackson and Browner of the incoming administration will ensure a “green” future for the USofA.

    Wayne
    Don’t blame the OWS weather guy. Blame his computer.

    yyzdnl
    You can lie with pictures – The Gore and Moore movies for example.

    Mike Bryant
    This video clip depicts what will happen when the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere drops to a level insufficient to support plant life. The animal life will be the last to go.

    RJ Hendrickson
    The Polar Bear dropping into the water is not necessarily fatal. Polar Bears are buoyant. One recently was reported to have swam across 200 miles of open water from Greenland to Iceland, where the bear was considered a danger to the populace and shot.

    Tom in Texas
    You nailed it Tom. Using computer models to lie is standard operating procedure for the AGW cult.

    DJ
    Congress.org is an effective site to use in emailing Beltway residents. You can allow your emails to be posted on the site for others to read and, in that way, spread the word.

    littleskeptic
    How about some “grilled” kangaroo?

    Halcyon
    Do you sell a lot of kangaroo change purses?

  72. Am I so twisted that I made myself believe that I saw another post here named “Flat Ice Core CO2-graph During 1000 Years?” The one with the Hans Errens illustration where CO2 concentration would folow temperature evolution and not otherway around like the whole antropomorphic warming clerus wants us to believe ?

    If I am not that wrong, and that item is removed then there must be a reason ? May I guess that someone put also the UAH data and the Mauna Loa data together and did not manage to obtain the same results ? Actually I did and I did not found any month to month relationship between monthly CO2 increase and monthly temperature anomalies. Also by having the CO2 running fore or behind the temperatures (by up to 1 year) there was no correlation !

  73. I think the end of the video is missing — the part where a penguin in a leather jacket performs a waterski jump over a hungry shark.

  74. The economy should lower the CO2 output, people will be jobless and Gore can be happy! Crisis is an opportunity for change!

  75. If you knew what this maniac and his ilk did in living memory you would not be comparing his actions to this video. I am actually disgusted the moderators let these slip when I have been chastised for using the word ‘denier’ (using it in its correct context and definition I hasten to add) in previous posts. I would suggest the moderators here bear in mind the damage that comments such as Miguels do to this blog.

    I call BS since there ARE environmental advocates, crazies to be sure, that advocate doing to us what the Nazi’s did to numerous groups during their reign. Furthermore, labeling this hit piece as such is intended to PREVENT something like what the Nazi’s did from occuring again.

  76. Well I watched it without sound, I suspect that’s a good thing. Absolutely embarassing. Maybe they are feeling suicidal because yet another expected environmental catastrophe is turning out to be trivial. They needn’t worry they can go protest at the local nuclear power plant.

  77. Off topic;

    NASA’s next mission to pinpoint and observe CO2 emissions and sinks. As the BBC reports it, they [NASA] are quite open in admitting that they don’t know where 90% of manmade CO2 emissions come from.

    Maybe it doesn’t belong to man…

    They also suggest indirectly that deforrestation could cause problems for CO2 sinks to remain effective. To me, that is a real environmental problem and surely the true cause of CO2 level rises (in my own opinion – not peer reviewed!!)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7769619.stm

  78. The cognitive dissonance in the heads of you Deniers must be getting deafening now. No wonder you’re all crowding in to little echo chambers like this blog run by a TV weatherman.

    * http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/17/world-meteorological-organization-wmo-press-release-arctic-ice/

    * http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/17/nasa-another-brutally-hot-year-for-the-siberian-tundra/

    * http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php

    P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science.

  79. It was very well done, very good computer animation, but sort of like Leonardo da Vinci doing Mona Lisa on black velvet with a matador in the background. Amazing to think there must be an audience out there who will shed a tear for the poor animal suicides and be motivated to do more to save the planet by it. Insensitive clod that I am, it just cracked me up.

  80. The cognitive dissonance in the heads of you Deniers must be getting deafening now. No wonder you’re all crowding in to little echo chambers like this blog run by a TV weatherman – “Al Gore! Al Gore! Global conspiracy!”

    * http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/17/world-meteorological-organization-wmo-press-release-arctic-ice/

    * http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/17/nasa-another-brutally-hot-year-for-the-siberian-tundra/

    * http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php

    P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science.

    REPLY: I’ll assume that you and MonoApe are one and the same. That gives you both two strikes for using the pejorative term “Deniers.” ~dbstealey, mod.

  81. Mary:
    The AGW balloon is about to burst. Remember the Hindenberg? Will you still be hanging on when it happens? My reading has brought me to the conclusion that some of your fellow passengers have left the ship already.

  82. P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science. — MonoApe (08:22:51) :

    P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science. — Dee Niall (08:29:27) :

    Who helped you log on?

  83. Surely, it can’t be hard to show how anti-development attitudes will cause millions of people around the world to continue to live in abject poverty instead of getting access to medicine, food, etc?

    Or to show the millions of Africans that needlessly died of malaria because of the ban on DDT? A video comparing a white famly’s enjoyment of a songbird in its backyard while a small African boy died in squalor might hit home.

  84. Obviously the original computer model of happy smiling wildlife cavorting in a stable verdant environment was run through the standard AGW input “adjustment” process and this is the result.

  85. What about this one?

    http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=schw94Yc0sc

    In Dutch, the publicity ends with a spoken text:
    “We are not going to let our children fight the battle against CO2, are we? That’s why Electrabel invests to get green current for 1 million of households by 2015. Electrabel. Together for less CO2.”

    I like this publicity more than the one on top of this thread, but of course I do not like that CO2 is being portraited as a vilain pollutant or “the” cause of global warming. For those who still don’t see it: Companies are on top of this to make big money out of so-called “human induced” global warming!

  86. A video comparing a white famly’s enjoyment of a songbird in its backyard while a small African boy died in squalor might hit home. — Why not fight back (08:51:59)

    Our side seems to lack the funds to make a video like this one.

    However, we do have some entertaining ones.

  87. LOL! This is a hoot! I know it was meant to be very serious and somber, but it is so ridiculous, so over the top, I couldn’t help laughing.

  88. Smokey says:

    That was an interesting link, peerrev. It’s clear that Mythbusters is simply another propaganda outlet.

    Someone should archive that link for posterity …

  89. MonoApe/”Believer” translated:

    “First you refuse to believe our Fairy Tales, and now even our Cartoons! Will no appeal whatsoever to paranoid infantile narcissism and pre-Enlighenment ‘thinking’ make you come into to our Cult? Waaaaa…..”

  90. Arthur Glass (06:17:34) :

    Re: Las Vegas snow.

    How rare is such an event at any time of year, let alone in the first half of December? So rare that, according to an article in the local Daily Rag, McCarren Airport has no snow removal equipment and no de-iceing capability. And Clark County deploys a fleet of two snow plows and two graders.

    I wonder if they take over/under bets on snow accumulation.

    The headlines in the LV newpaper this morning (delivered two hours late) placed the odds at 1000-1 against accumulating snow on the strip and 50000-1 against building a snowman there.

  91. thy name is legion:

    it’s better than facing the reality of the science.

    I assume this is your opinion? You personally don’t want to face the reality of the science?

    The WMO press release on the arctic, is based on modeled mass balance to predict actual mass balance. As the original poster here stated; “Neat trick”.

    Its near -60 in Siberia now. GISS, quoted in that site, is also the outlier in temperature metrics. UAH, RSS and even Hadley, shows declining global temperature trends since 1997. But even GISS shows a negative temperature trend since 2001.

    And your “denial” blog is just another ad hominem attack. No science.

  92. So let me get this straight.

    Charles Garner (08:48:10) :

    “This is an interesting take on the ’cause’ of the Little Ice Age. A bit OT, but what the heck. Seems it was caused by a virus, that killed a lot of people, that didn’t keep the trees cut, that sucked up all the CO2. Forget about sunspots and the like.”

    http://www.physorg.com/news148817103.html

    So the uncontrolled growth of trees caused CO2 to drop and brought on the little ice age?????

    With all the winter weather we are seeing this year, we better start chopping all the trees down or we are all going to all freeze to death.

    ;>P

  93. RE:

    “I have heard dozens of interviews of people that voted for BO who had no idea who Joe Biden or Sarah Palin were.”

    Ignorance is bliss.

    WRT the video clip. As someone observed above, the operative work here is anthropomorphizing. Its use to manipulate others is repulsive, partly because it works. The worldwide adoration of Walt Disney’s movies is proof. But to deal with reality…

    The lake where I walk every day after dropping my daughter for school was flash-frozen last week by 100-year record -18 F. temperatures. The lake surface is a perfectly white plane of hoarfrost, except for the network of coyote and fox trails, each leading to and from dark blobs scattered at intervals across the surface. Out on the ice, up close to the dark blobs, I could see the frozen vertebra sticking up through, the bones stripped clean, and the trampled ring of feathers, light and gray as ash, of the Canada geese, their carcasses frozen in place where they died.

    Still, the creators of this video may be onto something. I would normally pass off such crap saying they have no clue about nature, but who knows, maybe those geese consciously acknowledge that there’s no way out, watch the circling coyotes closing in, and yield themselves up to it.

  94. MonoApe (Dee Niall). What are you trying to say? No one to my knowledge is denying that the world today is warmer than it was in the Little Ice Age or (with a few unmentionable exceptions) that it is cooler today than it was in the Medieval Warm Period).

  95. mono & dee nial,
    When AGW true believers cannot engage past ‘denier’, it is clear evidence one is not dealing with a thought-driven person.
    To ignore the lack of evidence any sort of apocalypse, and the clear evidence that the Hansen IPCC models are simply not honest or accurate, is to demonstrate that one’s belief in AGW is driven by faith, not reason.

  96. Mary Hinge:

    “If you knew what this maniac and his ilk did in living memory you would not be comparing his actions to this video. I am actually disgusted the moderators let these slip when I have been chastised for using the word ‘denier’ (using it in its correct context and definition I hasten to add) in previous posts. I would suggest the moderators here bear in mind the damage that comments such as Miguels do to this blog.”

    Mary is not nice to assume that readers of this blog are unaware of what Hitler’s propaganda minister did. We know that he, along with the NAZI regime, was responsible for tens of millions of deaths. The questions I have for you is: What will be the price paid for the complete dismantling of western civilization? How many will perish when the despised “big” agriculture is replaced by “organic” farming ? How many diseased ridden corpses will be piled high when the oil and plastics industries cease to exist?
    As bad as the Third Reich was, it will be a mere footnote in history if this monolith of self loathing, anti-capitalism is not stopped. The money spent to date on this unrelenting propaganda is well into the billions – how many lives has that cost? I think you owe Miguel an apology.

  97. Dee Niall (08:29:27)

    Conspiracy? No. Poor scientific method (Adjusting data to fit the model), political bandwagon jumping, and general opportunism (‘Green’ products and associated marketing) based on a false premise. There’s no real conspiracy out there at all, whichever side of the fence you wish to choose. Just normal human irrationality. As for cognitive dissonance; what do you think the saccharine anthropomorphism displayed in the video short displays? Get your cognitive biases right.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

    Here on our part of Vancouver Island we’ve got over twenty inches of ‘Global Warming’outside our door right now, with more to come around lunchtime and prophesised for Saturday night. Great weather for snowmobiles, but most unusual for the Nanaimo area. Only happens every 20 years or so. Local folklore has it that the last Winter with anything like this snowfall was in 1996.

    The only people in ‘denial’ right now, what with the current cooling temperature trend and all, appear to be the pro Anthropomorphic Climate Change camp. Don’t worry chaps, you’ve only four more stages before you reach acceptance.

  98. Mary Hinge: If you knew what this maniac [Goebbels] and his ilk did in living memory you would not be comparing his actions to this video.

    It’s actually quite the opposite, as usual: one very successful approach to what AGWer’s and other Progressives say is to assume that the truth is more likely to be even the exact opposite of what they claim, due directly to their assiduous denial of reality – then, of course, back it up.

    In this case the “fruits” of Goebells’ Fascist propaganda machine resulted in a Global Disaster, even involving Goebbels and his family – they all ended up committing suicide. Goebbels was most definitely a “perception is reality” [Jews as rats] kind of Guy – according to Goebbels, what was “good” propaganda was anything to keep the completely controllist Fascist State in power – which is the also purpose of AGW propaganda, except that in the latter case the controllist AGW Cult is using it to first obtain power. But anyone can easily see what will occur after that: Global Disaser, along the lines also of Communism’s “helpful”, real world experiments.

    Btw, here the means also are the ends, thought control, from which all other control flows.

    Hence the ipcc “science’s” Fairy Tales and Cartoons. Of course the needy, compliant Flock – and their “ilk” – are not quite willing or able to see their part in this scheme, probably because it really just fits their mentality too well, for whatever reason, just as was the case with the German, etc., populace. They are the true Believers, and they often need to be Believers, and they – the controllists and their willing/useful accomplices – aren’t just going to go away anytime soon – if history is indeed our guide.

  99. All with reference to Goebbels, right on. Brooklyn Red Leg, your call of BS is too. This is pathetic state of affairs when it comes to this level, thank you catastrophic AGWers. We have real issues to deal with. Keeping the hysteria up about a hypothesis with as many holes as a sieve like CO2 warming, when we may need every btu we can produce to keep from freezing is insane. (sarc on)Those who would ‘save the planet’ via reduced CO2 emmissions can then move on to extend the growing seasons when crops fail (sarc off).

  100. From the perspective of a native Coloradan, I tend to think the Scandinavian view of Hel as being more on target than the Judeo-Chrisian fantasy.

    From my (probably shaky) understanding of the mythology, they see a return of the “frost giants” (“return” because there’s a cultural memory of it all happened one – or more times – before). Wolves stalk the frozen earth in packs. They swallow up the sun, moon and the planets and all living things including the gods.

  101. Dee Niall (08:29:27) :

    The cognitive dissonance in the heads of you Deniers must be getting deafening now. No wonder you’re all crowding in to little echo chambers like this blog run by a TV weatherman – “Al Gore! Al Gore! Global conspiracy!….!

    http://climateprogress.org/2008/12/17/nasa-another-brutally-hot-year-for-the-siberian-tundra/

    In regards to this link: where is all the evidence that Siberia is actually suffering from the alleged “brutally-hot-year-for-the-siberian-tundra”?

    I did a yahoo search and couldn’t find a single actual (non-hypothetical) anecdotal story or evidence that demonstrates that Siberia actually suffered from a brutal heat wave this year as claimed here and in the GISS records.

    You would think that if global warming were striking Siberian as bad as the temperature anomaly maps indicate, we would see horrific tornados, flooding, droughts, and every other AGW induced disaster relentlessly clobbering Siberia.

    You would think that if global warming were striking Siberia, you would see photos in the National Geographic and other pro-AGW magazines, of glaciers melting, frozen tundra thawing, animals dieing, and other photo evidence of Global warming.

    You would think that if global warming were indeed striking Siberia at a rate of 10 times that of the rest of the world, you would hear reports of mass extinctions, natural habitat destruction and/or migrations of all sorts of native species.

    You would think that with all the hype and hysteria over global warming, the one area that has apparently experienced the most warming the past 10 years, and showing the degree of massive warming that is forecast for the rest of the globe in the next century, would become the “poster child” for the global warming cause.

    Where is all the evidence of the Brutal heat wave that is occuring in Siberia?

  102. Mary Hinge: your

    If you knew what this maniac [Goebbels] and his ilk did in living memory you would not be comparing his actions to this video.

    Rachel Carson and her ilk are responsible for as many, or more deaths, than Hitler and his minions. Its near to 100 million now….and counting….

    The DDT scaremongers are no different than the scaremongers who produced that video.

  103. Dee Niall/MonoApe

    We don’t need to pick on your names – your “references” suffice. They would be hilarious if they were truly the parodies that they appear to be, rather than the rantings of non-observers who seem to be lost in paranoia, delusion and mass hysteria. I am making a list and the proprietor of that oxymoronic mess is at the top. There will come a reckoning.

    Why you don’t just stay there in the bosom of fear is what fascinates me.

  104. The trains ran all the way to the end in Neville Shute’s “On The Beach”
    This video is similar in intenet and just as factual. I went back to my nuke science class notes and calculated that in order for Shute’s scenario to come true, the world powers would have required a lump of cobalt about the size of the moon. Pat Frank’s “Alas Babylon” is a more realistic look at nuclear war.
    This crap is just the latest socialist attempt to destroy the middle class in the west. We’ve been dealing with it since the 20’s.

  105. It snowed in Malibu, CA last night, is that more evidence that global warming is happening faster then predicted?

  106. Douglas DC: Oh,Pamela,got snow?
    Just starting here in La Grande…

    Guys, I’m holding the fort here in your vicinity at the head of Wallowa Lake, a lake which, for anyone who doesn’t know, was formed by the advance then retreat of a Glacier/Glaciers? which also put up massive lateral moraines above the Lake and left a terminal moraine allowing the Lake to form. When I saw the lateral moraines I first thought the Army Corps of Engineers must have finally gone nuts.

    Overall, the gouge is about 800-900′ deep, 4 miles long, and about a mile wide?. The area has had at least 5 glacial advances and retreats according to Elmo Stevenson, a past President of Eastern Oregon State College in La Grande – “Nature Rambles the Wallowas” – and over the past two years I’ve noticed some year round snow [glaciers] on the Mountains, which were present about 30 years ago, then disappeared in the interim. Also, last year was the first time I’ve ever had to get “my” road ploughed.

    How long do I have?

  107. Pretending to be a liberal activist is a truly excellent way to make money these days, in a capitalistic manner. Ask multimillionaires Moore and Gore, the leading role models. Approximately 50% of the population, buying anything you sell them to assuage their guilt, is a big enough target market. Probably explains this extreme video.

    On a more mundane note, because this has been bugging me – please do not respond to Mary Hinge as Mary. No female would use that handle, as it is derived from the most vulgar word in the English dictionary. Mary Hinge is a Mary Hinge by name and a Mary Hinge by nature methinks.

  108. Global Warming?

    25,000 polar bears increase since 1956 survey.
    Kangaroos are on the increase in Australia, in fact, they have open shooting of the animals.
    Monkeys are in a protective state in Africa – trees are not disappearing.

    The video is a major hoax!

  109. The video comes from a Portuguese NGO (Quercus). The public television station RTP in Portugal projected this idiocy two or three times on the same day. There was a wave of protest from viewers. The “purveyor” of viewers was forced to make a special program due protests. For the first time three Portuguese skeptics have been invited to speak in public. The (ir) responsible for Quecus are completely mad. They ignore climatology. But they have open media to promote their nonsense.
    Rui G. Moura (one of the skeptics guests)

  110. MonoApe, on a related matter, what do you think about the reality of the science that genetic modification is safe?

  111. Here is a BBC story about NASA launching a satellite to track CO2 sources.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7769619.stm

    Jonathan Amos seems willing to hear from us as he has posted his email address at the end of the screed. Jonathan.Amos-INTERNET@bbc.co.uk

    After all, the roughly 7.5 gigatonnes coming from all human sources may be sufficient to tip this system out of balance, warming the Earth. Not according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous Over that 80 million year period the average CO2 level was 1700 ppm, yet the global temperature was only 4 °C above modern levels.

  112. Sunspotless days. By my count we passed 1912 for second place 3 days ago.

    1912- 253 spotless days

    2008- 256 spotless days. There was 241at the end of November. I already count 15 in December.

  113. Record cold in Norcal again this morning.

    Massive winter storms are stacking up to make it a snowy and wet Christmas.

    Its starting to look like 1982-83 all over again, except its not an El-Nino year.

    OT, but I am taking two days off to go look at some more surface stations.

  114. Keeping the hysteria up about a hypothesis….

    Right on. Note to AGW Believers, disasterizing and attempting to produce and stoke hysteria is not a component of the Scientific Method. But this is exactly what the ipcc “science” primarily aims at, at least as a tactic useful toward bringing about its hallowed Ultimate Goal, Control.

    The reality is that the ipcc Method effectively involves only a gigantic Propaganda Operation, designed solely for achieving Control, and is not in any way directed toward actually helping Humanity – that is, except for the relatively insignificant numbers of “scientists”, lobbyists, NGO’s, University Profs., Politicians, Green Businesses, Goracle-like Evangelicals, etc., who use AGW simply as an opportunistic and even blatantly parasitic way to make a living.

    So attn., all you noble Believers at large, meet Bait and Switch – also previously incarnated as Jimmy Swaggert and Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, for example. [RIP, Tammy]

  115. philincalifornia says:

    On a more mundane note, because this has been bugging me – please do not respond to Mary Hinge as Mary. No female would use that handle, as it is derived from the most vulgar word in the English dictionary. Mary Hinge is a Mary Hinge by name and a Mary Hinge by nature methinks.

    Do you mean this?

    Tsk, tsk.

  116. Paul Shanahan (07:31:41) :

    “Sounds like the start of a joke;

    A Polar Bear, a Chimp and a Kangaroo walked into a bar…”

    … and after a few drinks they turned into the man-bear-roo…

  117. oooh please global warming is not happening its like this video is talking about the end of the world or nuclear war but not this global warming

  118. An interesting thing is yesterday I heard it mentioned on a national radio show the polar bear population had increased during 2007 and is still growing. The global warming advocates applied pressure to have them added to the endangered species list regardless. How else would they be able to release propaganda films such as this?

  119. Control the media, and you control the people. Can you guess who said that Mary? Was it Gore or Goebbels ? I don’t see any skeptical points of view on Canadian television. Hmmmmmm, ……. – MonoDeniall, try posting a skeptical point of view on RC and tell me what happens. You got to post here, even though you obviously disagree completely. Hmmmmm, …..

  120. It’s too cold because of global warming. It’s too hot because of global warming. Where forest fires have burned for ages Arnold says the California fires are now due to global warming. Can the argument against man made global warming be won?

  121. Nothing but Climate Porn.

    Perhaps this is some of what George Soros $300M of AGW Propaganda budget provided to Al Gore is buying.

  122. The DDT scaremongers are no different than the scaremongers who produced that video./Les Johnson

    Sacre bleu! That’s sure one to keep handy. The CO2 “pollutant”, etc.. – and just trying to establish my multiculti cred, don’t ya know.

  123. Well my kid does better animation graphics that that, and the authors clearly don’t know any of those animals.

    If the Polar bear was dumb enough to climb all the way up on that mountain of ice in the first place, he deserved to fall of.

    The Kangaroo looked more like a Capybara; and I can’t imagine one jumping in front of the train; now it might come charging along and simply crash into the side of the train, as if it wasn’t there; well there’s plenty more where that one came from.

    I liked Wile E. coyote much better when oit comes to jumping off cliffs.

    And just who was that Nibelung who had to make a point of pointing our her handle to us; hey folks lookie up there; see on my head; notice what that is; its called a halo, and I’m better than you. Well honey, I was so busy looking at your boobs, I never even saw yer halo; but now that you mention it, it is even sillier. Does your mother know you are out this late?

    Old iron eyes Cody wasn’t so cool; he was probably thinking about how his ancestors used to stampede a whole herd of bison off a cliff (like a rock iceberg); just to get a steak for dinner. But he did have the last laugh; who’d a thunk he was just an Italian character actor.

    Well we have ourselves a whole bunch of new clowns to entertain us. When everybody you know and associate with is either a crook, or a terrorist, or an America hating racist; and suddenly you need to hire some gofers to help you change the world; well you have nobody to turn to but the same old Clinton bunch of hoodlums we already got used to.
    Yep change we already got used to.

  124. Hasse@Norway (00:38:05) :

    What about all the thriving malaria moscitos, that global warming will cause??

    It could have been more dramatic if the polar bear had been driven from an even smaller block of ice by a swarm of blood-sucking mutant mosquitos.

  125. The essential message is Despair.

    Despair is equivalent to Demoralisation.

    If you wanted to defeat an enemy you would demoralise them first.

    Who is the target of this campaign?

    Who benefits from the demoralisation of people (including children)?

    I would really like to know who funded the work.

  126. The irony of anthropomorphic animals in this video is fantastic. AGW paranoia is the perfect illustration of humans being the only species to rue our own evolutionary success and to engage in self-loathing and other forms of navel gazing.

    Which leads me to this question:
    Isn’t it better to be a skeptic than an omphaloskeptic?

  127. Anthony, Is there any way to find out who paid for this and who made the film?
    From the first chapter of Propaganda by Edward l. Bernays, father of Political Spin and PR, whose work was utilized by Hitler and Goebbels as well as thousands of invisibles the world over.

    CHAPTER I. ORGANIZING CHAOS

    THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

    We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.

    Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet. They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

  128. In Australia polar bear drink rum and coke! They also seem to love the warm weather up in Queensland! Kangaroos on the the other hand prefer the front of trucks and buses to the front of trains since the silly humans love to stimulate fresh grass growth on the edge of roads by cutting it all the time!

  129. AEGeneral (08:51:31) :

    P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science. — MonoApe (08:22:51) :

    P.S. Looking forward to some mocking over my moniker as usual – it’s better than facing the reality of the science. — Dee Niall (08:29:27) :

    Who helped you log on?

    It took 4 and a half minutes to cut and paste from one screen to the next…

  130. Freezing Finn (11:39:11) :

    … and after a few drinks they turned into the man-bear-roo…

    LOL.

    Excellent.

  131. Adolfo Giurfa (05:02:58) :

    What is it behind all this?. This is the real “evil”, the closest to Hitler…

    Bruce Cobb (06:11:20) :
    …… and further frightening children into becoming the new army of climate brownshirts. The ends justify the means for them, which is fascism.

    Mike D (08:41:19) :
    Mary:
    The AGW balloon is about to burst. Remember the Hindenberg?

    Jim Arndt (09:29:51) :
    This AGW is turning into a cult or is already there. The facts of the occult (
    this goes for all cults like PETA, Hitler).

    Novoburgo (09:47:43) :
    Mary Hinge:
    Mary is not nice to assume that readers of this blog are unaware of what Hitler’s propaganda minister did. We know that he, along with the NAZI regime, was responsible for tens of millions of deaths.As bad as the Third Reich was, it will be a mere footnote in history…….

    I think if the moderators want to keep some form of credability they should ensure that any Nazi references are removed asap.

    Reply: Godwin’s Law aside, in my opinion, which may be overruled by Anthony, the comparison of use of propaganda to mold populations’ opinion is an appropriate comparison and worthy of discussion. I would appreciate it if the references and arguments about body counts, DDT etc. stop, no matter how relevant the posters feel they are. ~ charles the moderator.

  132. No propaganda, just data. Record lows are falling in the Pacific and Inland Northwest, and since 1928 in some places. I would wager that California has a few records as well. Record snows are also falling. I know where that polar bear is swimming to. Off the coast of Oregon. Maybe we can recruit them to eat a few sea lions.

    http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=pdt

    DAMNED global warming! It’s getting so warm my refrigerator quit making ice. Why? Cause it didn’t need to!!!!!

  133. Hunter: “When AGW true believers cannot engage past ‘denier’, it is clear evidence one is not dealing with a thought-driven person.”

    Or when “deniers” can’t engage past “AGW true believers”. Or, for that matter: “…brainwashed (and brain-dead)…climate brownshirts…AGW Cult…hysteria… insane… paranoia, delusion and mass hysteria.”

    So which one of these epithets is clear evidence of a thought-driven person?

    Reply: Valid points, everybody try and reign in the insults and defamatory characterizations please. ~ charles the moderator.

  134. Novoburgo: “As bad as the Third Reich was, it will be a mere footnote in history if this monolith of self loathing, anti-capitalism is not stopped.”

    Sounds alarming, although the anti-capitalist claim is not shared by other sceptics: “Pretending to be a liberal activist is a truly excellent way to make money these days, in a capitalistic manner. Ask multimillionaires Moore and Gore, the leading role models.”

    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?

  135. current temperature: -24 deg C
    historical average: -9 deg C

    And its still 15 deg C warmer now, than a few days ago!

  136. Dear Anthony and all,

    Here in Portugal we’ve been seeing this crap for some time, as Rui above says… It makes me ashamed of being Portuguese. The best part of the video is that these guys of Quercus don’t appear in it, so I guess they’re not going to make it till the end. Or maybe they will, in some green shelter…

    Saying this, it’s more of an incentive to keep on maintaining a skeptical blog in Portuguese. Get the correct message out there. Loud and clear.

    Ecotretas

  137. About that “brutally hot” year 2008 in eastern Siberia. According to the map the maximum anomaly was 3,7 degrees centigrade in Yakutia. That would mean for example the following annual averages in:

    Yakutsk 20 F (-6 C)
    Verchoyansk 10 F (-11 C)
    Oymyakon 8 F (-13 C)

    I don’t think either the people or the environment suffered too badly.

  138. I live in Bellevue WA, just East of Seattle. Having been given a repreive from all the snow North and South of us for the last week, it finally dumped 8 inches of natures beauty on us last night. Needing BEER, I “de-snowed” my new 4×4 Crew Cab truck and went to the store without incedent. While going and coming I pasted several vehicles that were going “no where”. It must have been Mother Nature’s way of giving Al Gore and the Greenie’s the finger!
    I refrained myself.

  139. Brendan: your

    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?

    The correct answer is “YES”.

  140. Peden and Douglas,

    With the three of us on the blog, that means that there must be what, 10 people watching TV and the other 10 in the tavern drinking beer in Wallowa County. Which is what I will be doing if I can make it there by Friday night. By the way Peden, if you want you can drive by the old house. On the way from the Lake to Lostine, turn right on Jim Town road (named after my g-grandfather) then drive one mile and turn left on Clark Lane (named after my grandfather). The big house and barn is where I live during the weekends, vacation days, and summers. I live in the house, not the barn. Barn owls live there. And a few marmots I haven’t killed yet. And some pigeons that have escaped the local boys’ BB guns and 22’s. The bigger structures were built in 1883 and stood in Lostine. After a railroad argument, my g-grandfather moved 6 buildings out of town to where the railroad depot was located and then added on to the house and barn. The blacksmith shop by the road (that is about ready to fall down) was one of the original shops in Lostine. I have the fire billows (a very large thing that I can hardly lift let alone work).

    As for snow at Wallowa Lake, a lot of the structures you see now were built during the warmer period this last century. If snow, cold, and glaciers are making a comeback, there will be an Exodus out of Wallowa County. Peden, the lake moraine is not the only one in Wallowa County. Do you know where the other one is?

    We got a shovel load of snow today! I was supposed to go to Walla Walla but they got even more snow than we did so I stayed home this afternoon. Pendleton District stayed open today (dumb, dumb, dumb) while every other district around us closed for the day. I am betting we will be closed tomorrow. This is more snow than I even remember as a child in Pendleton.

  141. Personally, I found the video hilarious, as sort of a mini “The Day After Tomorrow”. I’m hoping the eco-preachy “The Day the Earth Stood Still” is as (unintentionally) funny, and that South Park will come up with another side-splitting parody.

  142. Honestly, I am concerned about evanjones.

    “um abraço especial para todos que usam o código secreto chamado língua portuguesa.”

  143. George E. Smith
    “Well we have ourselves a whole bunch of new clowns to entertain us. When everybody you know and associate with is either a crook, or a terrorist, or an America hating racist; and suddenly you need to hire some gofers to help you change the world; well you have nobody to turn to but the same old Clinton bunch of hoodlums we already got used to.
    Yep change we already got used to.”

    The incoming circus will have the most expensive clowns, ever. It is billed as a sequel to Back To The Future, called Back To The Clintons. The plot is based on the politics of Chicago in the environs of the Beltway with the resulting national and international convoluted intrigues.

  144. Fernando, you are in Sao Paolo yes? I don’t think I’ll make it that far, unless you promise to put me up for a couple of days.

  145. Ed Scott said

    “Wayne
    Don’t blame the OWS weather guy. Blame his computer.”

    Whos blaming, he called this event back on Dec. 8th and I was waiting for it, the prediction was pretty accurate.

  146. Kudos to the site, Anthony. I enjoy the candor and your passion for the details that most “scientists” seem to overlook. By the way, you have a good last name, too.

    I also saw this http://green.msn.com/Home/Global-Warming-Mythbusters/?gt1=45002 pop up on the msn home page earlier today. I checked again to post it here in the comments, as it seems highly relevant (more propagandist nonsense), but I wasn’t able to find it. Did one of you naughty “skeptics” (in my mind read: “people with functional pre-frontal cortices”) scare folks at msn into taking it down? Bravo, if you did!

  147. Les Johnson (14:47:04) : wrote
    Brendan: your

    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?

    The correct answer is “YES”.

    Brilliant Les ….. and there was this newbie thinking he had to write an essay to explain his earlier comment when one word does it.

  148. “Mark (19:48:56) :
    Has anybody considered what our options are once Obama gets into office and these cap-and-trade bills and other CO2 limiting bills start becoming law? “

    You all get locked up. For such an ‘important issue’, a moral one, it wouldn’t be any stretch of the imagination that subscribers and supporters of this blog, Junk Science et al are banned/outlawed/silenced. Anthony’s Blogroll would be a good place to start. There will definately be a McCarthy style anti-American hearing targetting all of the ‘denialists’. I just hope it’s not all before Autumn so I can get a visa to visit America for vacation, ’cause I’m on that list too.

    Richard deSousa (15:52:27) :

    Ridiculous video foisted upon the uneducated masses.

    Fortunately what Quercus doesn’t realise is that 99% of all kids know that cartoons are make believe and there will be very few asking: “Mommy why did that monkey choke himself?” Certainly in Australian the comments will be “… stupid kangaroos.” Because everyone here knows they are … er … stupid.

  149. Sorry, J watt, the link is still up. George Orwell would know this doubleplusungood groupthink if he saw it today:

    Down is up, white is black, evil is good, and global cooling causes global warming.

  150. re: the solar wind coming from the coronal hole at the equator. It’s been doing that every time it comes round.

  151. Smokey (17:49:35) : wrote
    <>

    Pity Orwell isn’t alive to direct the sequel to our lovely Portuguese video – the one with the pigs from Animal Farm in the limos.

  152. Les Johnson (14:47:04) wrote
    “Brendan: your
    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?
    The correct answer is “YES”.

    Well done, Les. You’ve condensed your dissonance into a single thought. Good to see you’re improving on a fine old tradition of AGW scepticism.

  153. Ed Scott,

    Thanks for the input. Can use this also!
    Has anyone been to the site: noteviljustwrong.com?
    It’s a movie denouncing Al Gore’s! It’s been made overseas and now they need monies to get it to the Theaters. They have over 1million so far and need 3.5 million to get it out! I donated last night and I do not have a job with very little money coming in, so check it out and donate before Christmas because after Christmas no one has any money!

  154. I made a comment to the NSIDC about the sudden drop (on the daily graphs) for ice extent the past few days. I received, in surprise, a very pleasant response. Could it be that the NSIDC is going to flip toward the skeptic side and FINALLY figure out that we are not melting?

    (I removed my home email address for privacy)

    —– Original Message —–
    From:
    Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:27 AM
    Subject: {nsidc-176334} Re: Decmber 16th Extent Plots look odd

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    In response to your question, I checked with the sea ice index team. The Antarctic sea ice extent is much greater than the median line this year because a large section of ice is melting out later than usual. The small area of open water at the top of the extent map usually opens quickly this time of year, creating a quick drop in the daily median extent. This year, it has not yet opened up. As you can see from the Antarctic daily ice extent chart (http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/s_plot_daily.html), this year’s ice cover has been larger than average since about the beginning of November.

    Regarding the Arctic sea ice extent plots, first of all the ice is still growing, albeit at a slower rate. This change could be due to a number of factors. Weather, winds, and temperatures can all affect the rate of ice growth. Furthermore, ice extent is measured as the area of ocean with more than 15 % ice cover. While the extent graph seems to have slowed, it is quite possible that the concentration continues to increase. You can find sea ice concentration images on the Sea Ice Index Web page. http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/daily.html.

    For more information on the image derivation and data used, please see the documentation on the Sea Ice Index Web page. It is also important to note that the daily extent data is a near-real-time data product that is subject to anomalies and variation. For more accurate information, scientists rely on monthly averagest, which contain less noise and are subject to further levels of quality control.

    Please let me know if you have further questions.

    Regards,
    Katherine Leitzell
    NSIDC Science Communications

    mjstrong1@cox.net wrote:

    > There seems to be something odd with the plots from the Dec 16th daily ice extent plots. The Antarctic mean data outline looks small and the extent now looks HUGE over the mean compared to just a couple days ago.
    >
    > The Arctic plots also seem to be diving rapidly. Nothing happens this fast, does it? Either your data is corrupt or the satellites taking the data are falling from the sky. OR, someone in Iraq thew a shoe at your computers intended to hit George Bush in the head.
    NSIDC User Services Phone: +1 303-492-6199
    CIRES, 449 UCB Fax: +1 303-492-2468
    University of Colorado Email: nsidc@nsidc.org
    Boulder, CO 80309-0449, USA WWW URL: http://nsidc.org

    National Snow and Ice Data Center * Distributed Active Archive Center
    * World Data Center for Glaciology, Boulder *

  155. Hey Jane the stoats cant read or watch tv so they listen to the environment and not computer model. Besides they dont pay taxes so gore is not interested.

  156. “Certainly in Australian the comments will be “… stupid kangaroos.” Because everyone here knows they are … er … stupid.”

    Give the roos a break – they can’t help for what they are and what they do. People on the other hand are a completely different species for we actually have a choise…

  157. charles the moderator.

    Good to see you back. The Godwin’s Law piece is interesting, especially this quote which is very valid here “a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument.”

    It is very bad taste to compare a one minute animation with a particularly brutal and heinous regime as the Mazi’s. This was a short advert for a Portugese environmental group. Like most adverts on TV, or, dare I say it Election Broadcasts, the marketeers aim for the basic human emotions. Judging by the response here this animation is a tremendous success. Anphromophising is used all the time, Jeez has used it quite often, the ‘baby ice’ story comes to mind. TV adverts use them all the time. This begs the question why the outbursts of anger from the posters? The reaction is very similar to the Muslim outbursts to the Danish newspaper cartoons of the prophet Mohammed. This posts reactions are more religious than scientific and this is where the anti AGW argument will always fall flat on its face.
    No matter how many times posters will put in the usual phrases about proponents of AGW being members of some small religous cult (every thread has numerous examples) the reaction of posters know shows that they in reality belong to these little covens. The proponents of AGW include the vast majority of the worlds emminent scientists (those that actually get work published) and world leaders (who do not like spending money if deemed unnecessary).
    This is off course generalistic and does not apply to the true sceptics of which there are a number on this blog. To the rest of the posters just remember “a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument.”

  158. Quote: “The global warming advocates applied pressure to have them added to the endangered species list regardless.”

    Minor point. Polar bears have *not* been added to the endangered species list. That would require hard science proving their numbers *are currently* declining in such a way as to seriously and genuinely threaten extinction. This is not the case with Polar Bears. Polar bears have been added to the “threatened species” list. The media hype was misleading. It led to many people believing that it was the endangered species list, but it was actually the threatened species list. This list is for species whose numbers could be growing, but live in places where the habitat is being removed, thus threatening their future survival. Technically the polar bear can stay on this list because they face a hypothetical threat relating to ice melt. The total ice melt in their habitat DID decline to a record low, late summer 2007. (although it is only a 30 year old record, and has recovered somewhat since then) That fact means that the Polar bears can legitimately be on the list, even though there is NO evidence that the species is actually threatened in reality and their numbers are multiplying fast.

    I mean, we all know that Polar bears became extinct during the medieval warm period and then magically re-appeared during the little ice age, don’t we???

  159. Joemel Says:

    Showing that video in tv is a nice idea. It will show a good influence to every tele-viewers. Global warming can destroy the whole world. Lets fight global warming.
    Applebottoms

    YES, ALL RIGHT

  160. “Santa Goes Green: School Christmas Play Fans Global Warming Hysteria”
    (the title’s from prisonplanet.com website)

    Now, I witnessed a similar eco-propaganda-x-mas show at my kids’ school last night here in FINLAND where there were kids wearing GREEN elf’s hats saying things like “santa should use reindeers instead of motors and replace his coal burning power plant (?!) with wind turbines” etc…

    I guess global conditioning has just reached a new level…

  161. The spot is ridiculous. Specially the monkey and the kangaroo´s deads.
    It is true that the system wants to use the Global Warming to install a feeling of human World Conscience which allows in a future the installation of a One World Government. That is why there is a lot of money on this and strong campaigns.
    Anyway it does not means that Global Warming is a fake. There is a lot fo data that can be interpreted according to different theories. In my opinion the theory of Global Warming is good enough to explain the evolution in the data recorded in the last 20-30 years. The fact that a few men want to use this issue for their own purposes (establishment of taxes, trying to put together people around the world as already said) does not mean that it is a fake. Industry is flushing tons of chemicals, CO2, SO2, etc every year and it has to influence necessarily the environment. In France it has been recently published a documentary that deals with the contamination on the food we eat nowadays. It has been found that cancer has increased 90% in France in the last 30 years. Turning back to Global Warming, some of you make a simple extrapolation: if it is getting warmer why we have snow in California, Las Vegas, etc? The data show tha AVERAGE TEMPERATURE is increasing. As it is the average, it does not mean that one particular year the temperatures can go lower or higher than usual. There are small effects (some of them still unknown) that can influence particular behaviors, but the important is to see which is the trend which is given by the average parameters.

  162. Nevermind about the “santa gone green” video – it “has been removed by the user” – well, no wonder…

  163. Mary Hinge,

    My comparison is true and accurate and those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I think you simply take offense simply because you can’t rebuke the argument. Hitler was creating a religion and this is fact and has been covered and documented. I have never and will never compare or use horrific images to make a point. I let let the facts stand on their merit period.

  164. The “Al Gore-X-mas” Carol – “The 12 Days Of Global Warming” at

    Happy global war… err… I mean holidays, folks! ;)

  165. Brendan:

    your Well done, Les. You’ve condensed your dissonance into a single thought. Good to see you’re improving on a fine old tradition of AGW scepticism.

    Some, like Gore, have become quite wealthy on AGW.

    Others, especially NGOs, see it as as a chance for global wealth distribution.

    Still others, like Chirac, see it as the “first step towards global governance”.

    There are even people that see it as genuine problem that needs resolution.

    Now, cognitive dissonance is when someone’s world view, usually one single narrow view, is threatened by real world facts.

    My world view accepts that there can be more than one answer to any question. My world view doubts any complex question with a supposedly single answer; as being too simplistic and unrealistic.

    So, who is the cognitive dissonant, then? You, or me?

  166. jeez: your

    hmm…I would say that pithy wit beats an ill formed question.

    My wife says I have a pithy wit. But she lisps.

  167. Jim Arndt (09:07:16) :
    I think you simply take offense simply because you can’t rebuke the argument. Hitler was creating a religion and this is fact and has been covered and documented.

    You’ve already lost the argument.

  168. Mary Hinge your logic eludes me. You didn’t rebuke any part of my statement. Saying because I said Hitler does not lose or make an argument only when used in context. I wont bloviate further since you seem unable to discuss anything that says Hitler. Simply getting upset because someone said Hitler does win a discussion. Hitler and the Nazi party created a religion to control the people and indoctrinate the young, the vary thing most cults do like PETA and AGW. This lead to the death of 10s of millions so if you can take the heat guess what…. PLLEEEAASSSEE show me where I called anyone a Nazi or Hitler. Next you will say I lose a discussion because I say slavery. Those other dirty words like truth, facts and history.

    Reply: Mary Hinge does appear to have missed the point of my moderator reply. However, Jim Arndt, you could have responded without calling AGW a cult or referring to body counts as well. So let’s all try and raise the bar please! ~charles the moderator

  169. NP Charles sorry, just irks me when history is ignored or belittled. Ok AGW looks to be cult like. I usually keep myself under control but it just irked me.

    Reply: Not to worry. For clarity to other posters, this is the point Mary Hinge seems to have missed in the article I cited:

    However, Godwin’s Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent’s argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

    ~ charles the moderator

  170. So we’re projecting ‘certain’ people’s guilt/depression/suicidalthoughts into animals and then amplifying the negativity by giving animals the subsequential behaviors that go along with those feelings?

    Hmm. Creative. Does make you wonder if Polar Bears think about suicide. Too bad I’m a meat eating, winter loving, anti-gw meteorologist. Shame on people who think up this stuff. Same goes to you people who would rather save an animal’s life over a human.

    WAR 3′ of snow for the inland northwest. w00t!

  171. Les: “Now, cognitive dissonance is when someone’s world view, usually one single narrow view, is threatened by real world facts.”

    Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. In the example in question it’s a double dissonance: capitalist/socialist plot versus the reality. The fact that some people might benefit from AGW, or that others might see an opportunity to further their agenda, is not evidence of conspiracy, merely the normal play of interests.

    “My world view doubts any complex question with a supposedly single answer; as being too simplistic and unrealistic.”

    I wouldn’t call AGW simplistic, but what matters in the end is the evidence

    “So, who is the cognitive dissonant, then? You, or me?”

    I don’t regard myself as cognitively dissonant. However, one aspect of AGW scepticism is particularly striking: the quick dismissal of AGW claims versus the ready acceptance of sceptic claims.

    This phenomenon was very evident in a recent thread about a statistical study of the trend in sea ice since 1979. The results were received with acclamation and little, if any, critical comment from sceptics. This leads me to conclude that the scepticism of AGW sceptics is highly selective, which apart from anything else is ultimately damaging to the sceptics’ cause.

  172. Brendan:

    My:
    Now, cognitive dissonance is when someone’s world view, usually one single narrow view, is threatened by real world facts.

    your:
    Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

    And these two statements are different how?

    your In the example in question it’s a double dissonance: capitalist/socialist plot versus the reality. The fact that some people might benefit from AGW, or that others might see an opportunity to further their agenda, is not evidence of conspiracy, merely the normal play of interests.

    Its NOT double dissonance, whatever the heck that is. Its people with different agenda’s, which I implied with a succinct “Yes”. You are now seeming to understand my answer to your question.

    your I wouldn’t call AGW simplistic, but what matters in the end is the evidence.

    AGW is not simple. Insisting that anthropogenic CO2 is the culprit, however, is simplistic. The evidence, at best, is contradictory, which indicates a complex cause.

    your I don’t regard myself as cognitively dissonant. However, one aspect of AGW scepticism is particularly striking: the quick dismissal of AGW claims versus the ready acceptance of sceptic claims. These two statements are related how? And how does this relate to my posting?

    your This phenomenon was very evident in a recent thread about a statistical study of the trend in sea ice since 1979. The results were received with acclamation and little, if any, critical comment from sceptics. This leads me to conclude that the scepticism of AGW sceptics is highly selective, which apart from anything else is ultimately damaging to the sceptics’ cause.

    Again, I fail to see the relevance to my post.

  173. I’m having a bit of a chuckle over how wildly Mary has missed the point.

    To suggest that any discussion of propaganda can’t include the Nazis……

    But then, I usually view Mary’s goal as being to divert the discussion.

  174. Hey, Douglas DC (21:53:18) !

    I’ve met people like you all my life. You judge people by rumors.
    Once that was excusable as ignorance, but not we have the internet

    Cree-Cherokee. According to you, he was kin. Not from Italy, but Oklahoma, where my Blackfoot great-grandma came from. Wise up and stop repeating nonsense. See link below.

    http://www.ironeyescody.org/

  175. Brendan: your

    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?

    The correct answer is “YES”.

    I think that a fine example of a manifestation of cognitive dissonance is the inability of a human brain to “get” this example of “pithy wit” in less than a microsecond.

    Brendan, I think the makers of this video have a bigger bank balance now than before they made the video. Similarly, I’m sure kayak boy has a bigger bank balance by saying how delighted he was to have got so far north before his @rse froze to his kayak, as opposed to saying how delighted he was, for the planet’s sake, that the ice stopped him so far south !! Not to worry though Brendan, I won’t be able to prove it because it won’t be audited.

    (1 microsecond pause)

    Are there any doubts about the limo liberal’s agenda for AGW ?? It is not cognitive dissonance to observe two (or ten) politically distinct factions jumping on the same bandwagon.

    Lastly, I’m wondering why you changed the word “scheme” to “plot” in your comments above. Minor, non-statistically significant change helps with the argument, eh ?

  176. Mary , does this mean my father has won the argument long ago? David Suzuki has called him a denier ( with intentional allusions to all that word represents) for about 20 years now. In fact it was how I learned what ad hominem meant. I am sorry to point out that it was your side that used the Hitler reference decades before anyone that I know made any reference to that repulsive time in man’s history. So, by your logic, we won the argument a long, long, time ago, …….

  177. Les J: “And these two statements are different how?”

    Cognitive dissonance can also involve contradictory attitudes and beliefs.

    “Its NOT double dissonance, whatever the heck that is. Its people with different agenda’s, which I implied with a succinct “Yes”.”

    We are talking at cross purposes. Your “yes” answer to my question “So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?” seemed to imply a belief that AGW was hatched to further the interests of certain people. Perhaps you meant that some people are jumping on the AGW bandwagon for their own purposes, but it’s hard to discern that from a one-word answer.

    “Insisting that anthropogenic CO2 is the culprit, however, is simplistic. The evidence, at best, is contradictory, which indicates a complex cause.”

    The fact that CO2 is the primary driver of AGW does not rule out other factors.

    “your: ‘I don’t regard myself as cognitively dissonant. However, one aspect of AGW scepticism is particularly striking: the quick dismissal of AGW claims versus the ready acceptance of sceptic claims.’ These two statements are related how?”

    I think the following fairly characterises the self-image of the AGW sceptic: “I am an independent, rational thinker who critically weighs the evidence for and against any claim.”

    Or in the words of a self-proclaimed sceptic: “My personal belief is that we ’skeptics’ are, by and large, very open minded about climate science…and that the ‘other side’ is almost completely closed to any debate. We are willing to be altered by what we hear, but will also put any data through rigorous testing before giving any hypothesis our blessing.”

    However, in the case of the sea ice thread, there was a general and immediate acceptance of the results, encapsulated in this view: “It also begs the question – of why hasn’t NSIDC noticed this and published these results?”

    No “rigorous testing” on that thread. So the self-image of the sceptic was at odds with the professed attitude that the sceptic study must be right. This accords with a notable feature of AGW scepticism: a marked lack of scepticism about AGW scepticism. Hence the cognitive dissonance.

  178. Philicalifornia: “I think that a fine example of a manifestation of cognitive dissonance is the inability of a human brain to “get” this example of “pithy wit”…”

    No it’s not. And I got the joke. But one word doesn’t, for instance, distinguish between “scheme” and “plot”.

    “Are there any doubts about the limo liberal’s agenda for AGW ??”

    I guess that depends on the liberal. The communisation of America? A new Dark Age? Eco-terrorist genocide? Compulsory viewing of Oprah? I’m not really sure, but then I’m a sceptic.

    “Lastly, I’m wondering why you changed the word “scheme” to “plot” in your comments above.”

    Scheme, plot. Can AGW sceptics tell the difference?

  179. “Long term business plan” – my favourite definition for conspiracy – and it ‘s really what current events – the crashing (read: centralization of) economy, AGW, geo-politics etc. – are all about.

    And seems like everything is going according to plan – the plan of a certain “New World Order” – order out of chaos – and which has worked numerous times in the past.

    BTW – ever heard of the “ten new commandments” – and/or the Georgia Guidestones? If not, well, now you have…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

  180. paul (06:52:53) :

    Mary if people study history they will see that before it became public knowledge that goebbles and his boss were killing millions of people they were considered as ideals by many of the liberal elite in the us and other countries. The only difference is these people haven’t resorted to murder.

    paul,

    From the book “Red Hot Lies” by Christoper C. Horner, page 70:

    Noted skeptic, physics professor, and former head of the Geological Museum at the University of Oslo Tom Segalstad related to me an annoying series of pizzas delivered to his home which, although he did not order them, did ensue once he came out in criticism of the environmental alarmists. Oh, those clever greens. Or, maybe not so clever. It seems that, subsequently, the wheels of Segalstad’s automobile up and fell off on two separate occasions, including once while his young daughter was in the car. Apparently the lug nuts had been loosened. Of course, his claim is anecdotal. Sort of like the global warmists’ purported harbingers of catastrophic climate change.

  181. Mary: Along with The Godwin’s Law “a good rule in most discussions is that the first person to call the other a Nazi automatically loses the argument.” there show be something along the lines of whoever invests priestlike qualities in Former Vice President Mr Al Gore in AGW discussions automatically looses the arguement. I think you would find it would work both ways.

    The Gore Corollary perhaps.

  182. Anthony – saw this and thought I’d forward it:

    From The Washington Times on President-elect Obama’s choice for a science advisor.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/20/obama-names-climate-change-experts-posts/

    President-elect Obama: “Promoting science isn’t just about providing resources — it’s about protecting free and open inquiry. It’s about ensuring that facts and evidence are never twisted or obscured by politics or ideology,” he said in his weekly radio address. “It’s about listening to what our scientists have to say, even when it’s inconvenient — especially when it’s inconvenient.”

    Facts or evidence are never twisted? Outstanding, but…

    His science advisor? “John Holdren, a physicist from Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government.”

    A physicist from a school of government? Well, OK…maybe…

    …but Holdren’s views? “Mr. Holdren has called for boosted spending on science and for faster action to combat global warming.”

    Quoth John Holdren, “We are not talking anymore about what climate models say might happen in the future,” he told the British Broadcasting Corp. in 2006, “We are experiencing dangerous human disruption of the global climate and we’re going to experience more.”

    If this is dealing with free and open inquiry without influence of politics or ideology, we have some major problems ahead…

  183. David Ball (20:20:48) :

    If you are so incensed by the use of the term ‘denier’ (definition:-n.
    One that denies: a denier of harsh realities.) then how can you not condemn the use of direct comparisons with the Nazi’s (Goebbels, Brown shirts etc.) You seem to have a major contradiction, much like the majority of posters who disagree with AGW but don’t know why, the correct, not ‘inferred’ use of the word ‘denier’.

    savo (04:14:25) :

    …..there show be something along the lines of whoever invests priestlike qualities in Former Vice President Mr Al Gore in AGW…..

    There you go bringing a religious comparison! The scientific community do not call Gore a ‘priest’, nor any other religious title (see my points on this above). The only ones that do that are posters such as yourself. You have ‘ordained’ Gore as a priest so by your logic you have lost this argument by skilfully shooting yourself in the foot! Well done!

  184. Mary, I have to agree with Robert in Calgary. You did not address either of my posts at all, and tried to redirect the discussion. I will let others make up their own minds as to your response to my post.

  185. With respect to this video, which was made for a Portuguese environmental organization, Quercus, you can leave comments in http://www.quercustv.org/spip.php?article181#forum171, which is its official website.

    I am Portuguese and was quite ashamed with it. I know people which are affiliated to that organization but that are know considering dropping off after I showed them the video. It’s just plain disgusting

  186. Brendan H:

    The fact that CO2 is the primary driver of AGW…

    And you can prove that how? [Keep in mind that always-inaccurate computer models are not proof].

    And this interesting link from Freezing Finn’s link above: click

    Looks like some kind of religion to me. If those stones are located on town property, as stated in the Finn’s link, they need to come down, don’t they?

  187. I hate explaining jokes.

    But one word doesn’t, for instance, distinguish between “scheme” and “plot”.

    By lumping two disparate groups together, it suggests that there is no plot. There is only separate agendas coming together over the same issue.

    Now, if you are finished wandering around the intellectual landscape….

  188. Brendan

    “Scheme, plot. Can AGW sceptics tell the difference?”

    Well I certainly can, and did !!

    I’m also pretty certain that the guys on here who can spot the nuanced .1 degrees C here, and the .1 degrees C there can too.

  189. Smokey: “And you can prove that how?”

    The AGW claim is that the increase in greenhouse gases – mainly CO2 – due to human activity have raised the average temperature of the near-surface atmosphere and the oceans. The increase is especially evident in the second half of the 20th century.

    Science doesn’t deal in proofs. However, AGW is regarded as the explanation that is best supported by the evidence.

  190. Les: “By lumping two disparate groups together, it suggests that there is no plot.”

    Some creative people can lump together two disparate groups and make five:

    “If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all.”

    http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=NoneDare

  191. Brendan H:

    Science doesn’t deal in proofs. However, AGW is regarded as the explanation that is best supported by the evidence.

    First, you dodge the question, then you make a demonstrably false assertion.

    Science deals in proofs all the time, particularly in mathematics. But to be charitable, I’ll accept a Law. Or even an accepted Theory. That is the least we can ask, when the AGW salesmen are asking for literally $Trillions to fix a non-existent problem.

    Disproving [falsifying] a hypothesis is central to the scientific method — something which seems to be deliberately ignored by those pushing the failed AGW climate catastrophe hypothesis.

    I don’t blame anyone for dodging the question, when they’re on the wrong side of the argument. I understand that personal pride is involved, and the plain fact that Planet Earth itself is falsifying the failed conjectures of of the runaway global warming crowd negatively affects the reputations of those trying to scare the public with AGW. That must sting.

    It is telling that the same crowd always avoids the central tenet of the scientific method: that those pushing a new hypothesis, such as AGW-runaway global warming-climate catastrophe [all are the exact same hypothesis] must prove their case. They consistently refuse to acknowledge/admit that the burden of proof falls on them to make their hypothesis sufficiently robust to withstand falsification, and to replace the currently and long accepted paradigm that the climate is well within its normal historical parameters, with their dubious and increasingly ridiculous planetary catastrophe scenario.

    The reason is easy to see: AGW is not happening to any empirical, measurable degree. It appears only in GCMs, with which the real world disagrees. AGW proponents believe in their always-inaccurate computer models, while skeptics prefer to accept the real world, which increasingly rejects the AGW hypothesis.

    The burden of proof is on the AGW contingent to show conclusively that the current climate is out of the bounds of its normal and routine fluctuations. That, of course, is demonstrably false. Thus, the AGW/climate catastrophe hypothesis fails.

    Why should taxpayers spend one more dollar supporting that failed hypothesis, which drains funding from worthwhile science?

  192. Aww, cute animals committing suicide. So… Millions of years of the survival instinct is given up, just like that.

    Of course all those animals that haven’t given up on trying to survive would find lots of animal suicides to feed off. That should keep things going a bit longer.

    I see another cutie animation coming up, with well-fed animals eagerly ripping open chimps-on-a-string…

  193. Brendan: let me repeat myself. What does your meandering commentary have to do with me or my one word response to your question?

    Are you suggesting I subscribe to that nonsense you posted a link to?

  194. Paul Shanahan (08:00:24) :
    nd sinks. As the BBC reports it, they [NASA] are quite open in admitting that they don’t know where 90% of manmade CO2 emissions come from.
    Maybe it doesn’t belong to man…

    Um this ought to be calculable from readily available numbers. We have public data for coal, oil, natural gas, et. al. production.

    Trees, farms, cow farts, sewage output, paper in landfills, etc. are all from biological origin so can change where the carbon is in the biosphere / atmosphere, but not add to it (and IMHO ought to be ignored in any total Guilt Budget).

    Has anyone done the sanity check of just taking global production of fossil fuels, assume it all gets burned to CO2, and compare the magnitude of the number to the NASA human CO2 ‘budget’? It ought to be close to the total of everything we could reasonably be “guilty” of adding to the system.

  195. J. Peden (11:23:28) :
    except for the relatively insignificant numbers of “scientists”, lobbyists, NGO’s, University Profs., Politicians, Green Businesses, Goracle-like Evangelicals, etc., who use AGW simply as an opportunistic and even blatantly parasitic way to make a living.

    I think you left one off your list of beneficiaries. The Big Oil Companies.

    There were against the AGW thesis until two things were made clear to them. 1) It would suppress coal, their competitor. 2) Mandatory CO2 sequestration at coal fired power plants would result in somebody else paying for the massive amount of liquid CO2 they needed for enhanced oil recovery from old oil fields. (It’s a better stripping liquid than steam in many cases…)

    I find it funny when AGW folks toss rocks at the evil big oil as the funder of the anti-AGW side, since they apparently have not got the memo that big oil is licking it’s chops over the prospect of massive subsidies of their CO2 oil stripping operations…

    http://www.tcares.com/exproj.htm has Exxon in the first entry…

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_28/b3942043_mz011.htm

    About 125 miles away, in Shute Creek, Wyo., Exxon operates a natural gas processing plant that vents tons of CO2 annually. Some of it is now arriving at Salt Creek through a new $45 million pipeline. By 2008 all of Exxon’s CO2, and then some, will be pumped down into the earth, permanently disposing of 2 million tons a year of greenhouse gas while unlocking acres of black gold for Anadarko.

    Similar schemes are already working in the Southwest. “We have 1,000 miles of CO2 pipeline feeding enhanced-recovery oil wells,” says David J. Borns, manager of geotechnology research at Sandia National Laboratories. Some 25 million tons a year of CO2 have helped boost the region’s oil production by about 500,000 barrels a day.

    I generally try to live by the rule “Never attribute to Malice that which adequately explained by Stupidity”… but… For the AGW fanatics to still be lampooning Exxon when it’s so clearly on their side … ;-)

    Who was it said ‘Follow the money’…

  196. Greg Johnson (12:31:40) :
    Which leads me to this question:
    Isn’t it better to be a skeptic than an omphaloskeptic?

    There is insufficient data to answer this question. Is said navel an innie or an outie? ;-)

  197. Brendan H (13:45:45) :
    So is AGW a get-rich capitalist scheme or a get-poor socialist scheme?

    There is no difference. (Please grant a pardon from Godwin’s Law for some actual history…) The Nazi Party was the National State Socialist Party, yet it still had lots of capitalists in it. The notion that somehow socialism and capitalism are in conflict is simply wrong. Socialism just exploits capitalism in a different manner, with more governmental control.

    Most of the world economies today would be most accurately described as Lang Type Socialism. Even the U.S. where we now own the major financial institutions and shortly the auto companies as a public enterprise…

    The antithesis of capitalism is communism, not socialism. Socialism loves the ability of capitalist subsets to concentrate lots of money that can then be redirected. In the end, for all three economic systems, the power elite get richer (gain control) and the masses get poorer (have less control) so in all of the systems it is both a ‘get rich’ and a ‘get poor’ scheme.

    Capitalism is just better at making the pie bigger faster, but poorer at distributing it as the entrenched portion of the power elite would like (i.e. more room for creative destruction).

  198. Smokey: “And this interesting link from Freezing Finn’s link above: click

    Looks like some kind of religion to me.”

    That’s a rather tenuous connection to global warming, and generalisations from particular cases are not necessarily valid.

    On a personal note, I do not believe that AGW is a religion. For example, my own attitude to Al-Gore (Blessed be His Holy Emissions) is essentially agnostic. My reverence for His Greatness in no way influences my response to His Message, and my rational faculties are always fully engaged (May His Enemies Suffer Eternal Torment).

    I grant that some AGWers take a less than critical view of His Magnificence. In fact, some abase themselves in the most abject and servile manner. However, it must be emphasised that Al-Gore (O Mighty Eco-Warrior) has never demanded that level of obeisance from his congregation.

  199. Les Johnson: “Are you suggesting I subscribe to that nonsense you posted a link to?”

    No, but None Dare Call It Conspiracy is a classic of the genre and shows that fertile minds can accommodate a number of conflicting attitudes, which was my original point.

    As a general comment, since this is the season of goodwill, I offer the thought that it’s a shame that the AGW debate often descends to incivility, on both sides.

    With the example before us of Christmas 1914 on the Western Front, when the common soldiers on both sides laid down their arms to greet each other in no-man’s land, I urge all AGW participants to call a truce and embrace the enemy, if only for 24 hours.

    So in that spirit: Happy Festivus!

  200. Brendan H (22:21:22) :
    For example, my own attitude to Al-Gore (Blessed be His Holy Emissions) is essentially agnostic.

    Your whole argument is agnostic, used in the literal sense. Etymology: from Greek agnôstos -‘Without Knowledge’ .
    How else could you dream so much garbage up.

  201. There is a lot in that video that speaks volumes about the makers and the message. It is evident in the very human characteristics they give the animals. I won’t go into all of it, because I would be taking food off of their shrinks’ tables but quickly:

    Animals have a very strong instinct to live. They would not give up and kill themselves just because they’re having trouble adapting to change. That is an act solely reserved for the over-indulged, socially inept, sons and daughters of hippie fruitcakes, that brought you this video.

    Secondly, we are only given a passing glimpse of the reality these animals are facing. A quick flash of a small iceberg, dry tree limbs, and a dry desert plain, basically reinforcing the same simpleton imagery that is used to convey the doom and gloom message of global warming. We’re supposed to be conditioned to immediately associate these factually inaccurate outcomes of Global Warming and understand that we are seeing a world where man’s love of material things has literally scorched the earth. And apparently we are not expected to display and more intellect than the animals, and attempt to reason that any other scenario may have transpired. Just as we’re supposed to assume that animal instinct wouldn’t drive the animals to migrate and adapt. No no. We’re only supposed to assume that that happens when we’re discussing evolution vs. creation, apparently.

    What’s hilarious is that the people behind such propaganda believe it will have some profound impact on people that will move them to do something about it. In reality, this is such an insult to people’s intelligence that I think it will drive people who were inclined to believe in MMGW to reconsider. Factual science after all needs no PR campaign. On the flip side, propaganda was a favorite tool of Hitler and Saddam Hussein. That and blackmail, spying and fleecing.

    How long will it be before these videos start featuring guest appearances by Osama Bin Laden…?

  202. Brendan,

    Just wanted to let you know that

    Science doesn’t deal in proofs. However, AGW is regarded as the explanation that is best supported by the evidence…

    [snip] You jump from an unproven assumption (CO2 impacts global surface temps, no shred of CAUSAL evidence exists), to the poorly collected, statistically manipulated temperature records, which I assume are what you call “evidence”, and then tie it all together with the [snip] statement above.

    Just wanted to point out that you are wrong on all counts, [snip].

    And to the Global Warming alarmists, I say Mission Accomplished. This is your target audience, and you’ve convinced him [snip].

    Touche…

    Reply: Edited to remove harsh personal attack. It is quite possible to make one’s point without resorting to such tactics. I would remind ALL posters to remember this or posts will be deleted in their entirety. ~ charles the moderator

  203. [snip]

    Chuck.

    [snip]

    Reply: Attacking the moderator is not a productive use of either of our times.

    In case you don’t realize it, moderation involves careful balancing of subjective decisions, some of which may disagree with, and you may even be correct at times. However, we do the best job we can ~ charles (chuck) the moderator.

  204. Well, as I see it, global warming actually speeds up the evolution – obviously, all the animals are much smarter in the video because they make the link between the weather and future without food, and then they make a rational decision to kill themselves.

    So, hooray for GW, we’ll all be smarter!!!

  205. Global warming…(or is it cooling…or is it Ozone….?)…
    The biggest HOAX of our generation.

    This video was the funniest thing I have seen in 2008.

    LMAO !!! ha ahahahahaha The Polar Bear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comments are closed.