Open Thread

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

98 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
April 20, 2025 2:14 am

From the Federal Register record of the 2009 EPA “Endangerment Finding” now under reconsideration by the new administration: 
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-05/documents/federal_register-epa-hq-oar-2009-0171-dec.15-09.pdf

“Direct anthropogenic emissions of water vapor, in general, have a negligible effect and are thus not considered a primary driver of human-induced climate change.”

“Water produced as a byproduct of combustion at low altitudes has a negligible contribution to climate change. The residence time of water vapor is very short (days) and the water content of the air in the long term is a function of temperature and partial pressure, with emissions playing no role. Additionally, the radiative forcing of a given mass of water at low altitudes is much less than the same mass of carbon dioxide. ”

Here is something to think about: The “residence time” of water vapor with its latent energy is “very short” because of condensation and precipitation, driven by the general circulation and by local convection.  It can be very intense. This process converts latent energy to internal energy – i.e., sensible heat characterized by a temperature. This means the “residence time” of sensible heat gain imputed to incremental CO2 cannot be longer than that.

Therefore, how strong is the influence of incremental CO2 toward sensible heat gain in the climate system? It is negligible. It cannot be otherwise, and make any sense at all from this reasoning on emissions of water vapor.

But what about the incremental longwave absorbing power from emissions of CO2, CH4, N2O? Where does that energy end up? Just enough ends up emitted back to space, which is the same result as for the longwave absorbing power arising from direct emissions of water vapor. 
As this “Finding” is being re-examined by the current EPA, they ought to figure this out based on their own logic, and reverse the “endangerment” misconception about the non-condensing IR-active molecules.  

P.S. Yes, this also means that the idea of water vapor “feedback” to CO2 “forcing” has been fundamentally unsound all along.

Thank you for listening.

TBeholder
Reply to  David Dibbell
April 20, 2025 2:36 am

anthropogenic emissions of water vapor

This says nothing about cow flatulence. Thus the whole “eat maggots and die of cold” thing.

As this “Finding” is being re-examined by the current EPA, they ought to figure this out based on their own logic

Their expected logic is copy-pasting whichever paper validates the existence of the most EPA jobs possible.

paul courtney
Reply to  David Dibbell
April 20, 2025 6:14 am

Mr. Dibbel: Thanks for posting. I agree, and think this is one basis to reverse it without further ado. The idea that we must now process it from the beginning to unprocess it, is the troll POV.

Reply to  David Dibbell
April 21, 2025 11:34 am

The residence time of water vapor is very short (days) and the water content of the air in the long term is a function of temperature and partial pressure, with emissions playing no role.

That claim has long been an excuse for ignoring the role of water vapor. However, what isn’t said is that the assumption of the residence time for water is for a transient pulse of water vapor. Because water is ubiquitous, it is continuously being replenished through evapotranspiration, up to the saturation limit defined by the Clausius-Clapeyron relationship, and the saturation changes as a result of the lapse rate.

Something that got left out of the quote is that windiness also plays a role. Wind can cause ice to sublimate, and stir up the saturated boundary layer above water, thus accelerating the evaporation of water vapor. However, continental air masses are commonly limited by the availability of water vapor. Therefore, the absolute, long-term humidity of air over the Basin and Range province of the USA is lower than over the coast ranges of California, Oregon, and Washington.

Precipitation can be limited by the availability of condensation nuclei, which is why ‘cloud seeding’ has been experimented with for decades. Lastly, while anthropogenic emissions of water vapor may play a minor role, I can’t accept that they play “no role. NASA studies have shown that weather is affected downwind of Atlanta (GA) and other cities, mostly because of increased warmth (UHI), water vapor, and condensation nuclei.

The whole system is more complex than is suggested by the quote.

April 20, 2025 2:47 am

He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son. On the third day He rose from the dead. Rejoice in knowing you are saved and loved.

Happy Easter.

strativarius
Reply to  mkelly
April 20, 2025 3:07 am

Buona Pasqua.

Rich Davis
Reply to  mkelly
April 20, 2025 5:17 am

He is risen indeed!

Idle Eric
Reply to  mkelly
April 20, 2025 7:09 am

To clarify, are we talking about Michael Mann?

Coeur de Lion
Reply to  Idle Eric
April 20, 2025 11:48 am

I have written to the Royal Society asking why such a crooked and unpleasant man should have been elected a member. No reply yet

Reply to  Idle Eric
April 20, 2025 11:54 am

Uh … No.

April 20, 2025 2:53 am

Wake-up Call

A wake-up call, so to speak, for the spoiled wind power industry. 
Two companies are sounding the alarm because they’re at risk of losing a lot of money. 
They’re not losing it, they’re earning less. 
The issue is the shadowing of wind farms by other wind farms.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 20, 2025 5:49 am

The bastardization of the historical temperature record has wreaked havoc on the Western world, causing stupid people to do stupid things, detrimental to society, such as trying to power a society using unreliable windmills.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 20, 2025 8:08 am

https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/conflicts-of-interest-major-environmental-organizations-being
Here is a list of environmental offshore windmill gravy-train grafters:
.
1. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute received a donation of $500,000 from Ørsted in or after 2018.
Woods Hole has endorsed offshore wind since at least 2019. 
2. The New England Aquarium received a donation pledge of $250,000 in 2018 from Bay State Wind.
In 2019, Vineyard Wind donated an undisclosed amount to the Aquarium.
In 2020, Equinor donated an undisclosed amount.
The Aquarium has supported offshore wind since at least 2021. 
3. The Environmental League of Massachusetts (ELM) received a donation ranging $5,000 – $9,000 and an event sponsorship in 2020 from Vineyard Wind.
In the same year, FirstLight Power Resources donated $10,000+ to ELM.
ELM has supported offshore wind since at least 2010. 
4. In October 2020, the Mystic Aquarium featured an exhibit promoting offshore wind. In June 2021, Ørsted and Revolution Wind donated $1,250,000 to Mystic Aquarium to create new pro-offshore wind exhibits and a video, among other allocations. 
5The Center for Coastal Studies (CCS) received a donation pledge of $5,000 for each of five years from Bay State Wind in April of 2018, but did not ultimately receive the donation.
Vineyard Wind is listed as a corporate donor in 2018 to CCS and was a corporate sponsor in 2020 and 2021. CCS has supported offshore wind since at least 2019. 
6. The National Fish and Wildlife Foundation (NFWF) received a donation of $100,000 – $499,999 from Avangrid Renewables in 2019 and 2020.
In 2021, NFWF announced a partnership with US-based wind company Apex Clean Energy, where Apex will donate to NFWF $1,000 per megawatt of generating capacity Apex commercializes.
NFWF has not released any statements supporting or opposing offshore wind. 
Making no statement means you are OK with environmentally damaging wind.
7. The Delaware Center for the Inland Bays (CIB) received a donation of $50,000 from Ørsted in April of 2021.
After the Ørsted donation, the executive director of CIB released a statement in favor of offshore wind.
US Wind gave $100,000 to CIB in December of 2021.
CIB will name a new building the “US Wind Environmental Education Center.”
8. In August 2020, the National Audubon Society received a $200,000 grant from the New England Forest and Rivers Fund, a granting organization that takes money from the Avangrid Foundation, which is part of Avangrid Renewables.
The National Audubon Society has supported offshore wind since at least 2010.
Several regional Audubon chapters who are part of National Audubon including Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Maine have also received grants from organizations affiliated with the offshore wind industry.
The New Jersey Audubon Society, which is independent of the National Audubon Society, hosted an event sponsored by Ocean Wind in 2022.
NJ Audubon has supported offshore wind since at least 2019. 
9. The Nature Conservancy received a $165,218 grant from the New England Forest and Rivers Fund, a granting organization with funding from the Avangrid Foundation.
The Nature Conservancy has supported offshore wind since at least 2021. 
10. The World Wildlife Fund received a sponsorship grant of undisclosed value from Ørsted in 2019.
The World Wildlife Fund has supported offshore wind since at least 2021. 
11. The International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW), in 2018, received a donation pledge of $5,000 each year for five years from Bay State Wind to finance its Whale Alert app. 
12. The Lobster Foundation of Massachusetts in 2018 received a $250,000 donation pledge from Bay State Wind to prevent gear entanglement of right whales.
The Lobster Foundation has no statements on offshore wind.
Making no statement means you are OK with environmentally damaging wind.
13. Assateague Coastal Trust received a donation of $50,000 from US Wind in December 2021.
The Trust has supported offshore wind since at least 2009. 
14. The Wetlands Institute received donations from Ørsted of up to $49,999 starting in 2019.
The Wetlands Institute has made no statements regarding offshore wind.
Making no statement means you are OK with environmentally damaging wind
15. Project Oceanology received a $950,000 grant from Ørsted to be distributed in installments from 2021 to 2024.
Project Oceanology is a marine science educational nonprofit that has used the grant money to promote offshore wind in its educational materials. 
Open URL to see more

Mr.
Reply to  wilpost
April 20, 2025 10:03 am

Where does Orsted receive government (taxpayers) grants, subsidies, breaks from?

It’s easy to pay off anticipated objectors when you have access to “other people’s money”.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
April 21, 2025 11:38 am

Please tell my you aren’t suggesting that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The next thing you know someone will come along and claim that the Easter Bunny isn’t real.

strativarius
April 20, 2025 3:01 am

Miliband goes on the offensive in today’s Observer (Sunday Guardian)…

“Miliband in blistering attack on Farage’s UK net zero ‘nonsense and lies’

Miliband has torn into Nigel Farage and the Tories for peddling dangerous “nonsense and lies” by suggesting the UK’s net zero target is responsible for destroying Britain’s businesses, including its steel industry.

Farage and the Tories have blamed the perilous situation at British Steel’s Scunthorpe plant on high energy costs, saying renewable energy prices have put the company on the brink. Reform has also used the crisis to call for the UK to become self-sufficient in oil and gas by drilling more in the North Sea

In an article for the Observer, Miliband, the energy secretary, says the argument for the UK delivering clean power by 2030 is the same as it was when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022: the need to free ourselves from dependency on foreign supplies, including from Russia, which can lead to uncontrolled price spikes for customers in Britain.

Miliband says Farage’s party and the Tories “make up any old nonsense and lies to pursue their ideological agenda”.

Tessa Khan, executive director of climate action group Uplift, said: “Nigel Farage is peddling a dangerous fantasy by suggesting that the UK can secure its energy from North Sea oil and gas. “As usual, he’s imitating Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/19/miliband-in-blistering-attack-on-farages-uk-net-zero-nonsense-and-lies

Voters will get a chance in some areas to demonstrate their their views in May. I think Ed is going to be somewhat disappointed.

“Shock Poll Shows Reform UK On Course To Win Next General Election” – Huffington Post

Bombshell new poll predicts Labour are doomed as Reform surges – Express

“Reform surges as five-point poll boost shows Farage effect” – iNews

Delusions are what Miliband does best.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  strativarius
April 20, 2025 3:41 am

Miliband is so deluded he doesn’t recognise truth when it stares him in the face.

Reply to  strativarius
April 20, 2025 4:00 am

I find myself wishing a pox on all their houses. Milliband for the obvious reasons, and Reform et al for willfully ignoring the fact the only way to get cheaper energy when you operate in a free market is to nationalise the resources, i.e. leave the free market.

We’ve been there; we’ve done that, and we consequently flirted with the plug-hole. (That is probably why Reform pretend not to know that’s what it takes.)

The Brexit dividend I had in mind was not smokestacks; the rag trade; stoop labour, nor any of the other stuff Asia and Africa can do for us very well.

strativarius
Reply to  quelgeek
April 20, 2025 4:04 am

Anybody who is content with the [political] Parliamentary system is an enemy of democracy. Reform included.

Ultimately, they’re all quite happy to swim in the same sewer.

Reply to  strativarius
April 21, 2025 11:40 am

Let’s hope they encounter some alligators.

Reply to  quelgeek
April 20, 2025 12:45 pm

Would any of you people down-voting me like to explain why a resource company would not sell to the highest bidder?

Reply to  strativarius
April 20, 2025 5:22 am

Electoral Calculus has this for their April forecast:

Conservative 23.3% 156 seats
Labour 24.6% 199 seats
Liberals 13.1% 54 seats
Reform 24% 167 seats

However, the way the UK system works is that it has real tipping points, and you can inspect this by using the site to do your own predicting.

Raise Reform to 28%, by no means impossible seeing that they have come up from 14% at the last election, drop Con and Lab plausibly, and you get this:

Conservative 20% 57 seats
Labour 20% 124 seats
Liberals 12% 53 seats
Reform 28% 341 seats

Maybe this isn’t quite right on the losses for Labour and Conservative, you can play with the forecast and see. Looks like Labour will lose some share, but maybe not that much, and the same for the Conservatives. But it doesn’t take much for Reform to get another 4 percentage points, and then watch out.

Do your own scenario. As presumably all the UK parties are now doing, and see what you think. The May local elections will be a good indicator.

This is my prediction – use the ‘edit’ button to play with it.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=20&LAB=20&LIB=12&Reform=28&Green=9&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=%28none%29&boundary=2024base

ethical voter
Reply to  michel
April 20, 2025 1:47 pm

New cart, new driver, same tired donkey.

Reply to  strativarius
April 20, 2025 5:55 am

Thanks for giving me a little hope for the UK’s future! 🙂

The UK voters should “throw the Labour bums out”. It’s time for rethinking the future and Labour is stuck in a delusional past.

Farage should get Trump talking about windmills and the UK’s industrial situation and home electricity prices. Trump would be scathing on those promoting powering the UK with windmills. Miliband would curl up in the fetal position.

strativarius
April 20, 2025 3:53 am

Someone… tell JD Vance

“French anti-migration philosopher banned from entering Britain
‘They don’t want me to speak,’ says Renaud Camus who claims immigration will lead to ‘replacement’ of Europe’s indigenous people
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/18/anti-migration-philosopher-renaud-camus-banned-from-uk/

Exclusive: No charges for east London Imam’s ‘destroy Jewish homes’ sermon
Met Police spokesperson says it is for Parliament to determine where the line is drawn, not the police”
https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/exclusive-no-charges-for-east-london-imams-destroy-jewish-homes-sermon-sejjjysg

That’s how two-tier justice works in Labour Britain.

Reply to  strativarius
April 20, 2025 6:03 am

We do need JD Vance and Trump speaking out on this subject.

What does Farage have to say about this?

Reply to  Rich Davis
April 20, 2025 8:48 am

We have a stabbing suspect over here in the U.S. who is trying to make himself out to look like the victim. He’s black, and the Leftwing media is solidly on his side. If he were white, the Leftwing Media wouldn’t give him the time of day.

April 20, 2025 5:15 am

an ngo loonie stood up at a UN environmental meeting last week (IMO MEPC) and said;

‘black carbon accounts for half the global warming in the polar regions’.

or, alternatively, CO2 accounts for less than half…… VICTORY!!!!

Reply to  peteturbo
April 20, 2025 1:55 pm

Some sources of black carbon are wildfires, burning of agricultural waste, older two stroke Diesel engines, marine Diesel engines, and rubber tires.

Since 1900, where has the many billion pounds of rubber particles and dust gone? The answer is: anywhere and everywhere!

Another source of black carbon is asphalt roads.

There is brown dust from brake pads and rust from the rotors.

rhs
April 20, 2025 6:23 am

Stop the Press!
AGW is causing rice to contain more arsenic:
https://grist.org/food-and-agriculture/the-king-of-poisons-arsenic-is-building-up-in-rice/

rhs
Reply to  rhs
April 20, 2025 6:26 am

That said, this article is barely worth the electrons hosting it. Microbes can release existing arsenic but can’t create it out of dirt.
Some folks should really understand the difference between science and alchemy.

rhs
April 20, 2025 6:28 am

All natural pet foods aren’t always good for pets? But I thought alleviating first world guilt was always providing a superior product:
https://www.statnews.com/2025/04/10/raw-pet-food-diet-safety-dogs-cats-h5n1-bird-flu-veterinary-wellness-misinformation/

rhs
April 20, 2025 6:30 am

And of course, plant based plastics might be worse for the human body than other plastics?
https://scitechdaily.com/safe-plant-based-plastics-linked-to-organ-damage/

April 20, 2025 8:54 am

hello fellow travelers, i need some help please.
our school board is attempting to close on a deal to install solar panels atop of two school buildings. i and another neighbor will be going to war with the board and try to stop this. i am in need of a data source from here (wuwt) or a third party that i can present to the board and rally others. in addition to data i need to formulate a list of questions to submit to the board.

attached are two screen shots of the article from the tecumseh herald where i first learned of this project. please read and comment. it is a lot to ask i know but if this solar project happens it will solve nothing and create problems out of thin air in the future.

thanks,
joe x

Screenshot-2025-04-20-at-11-33-47-4-17-25_herald_web_op150.pdf
Reply to  joe x
April 20, 2025 8:56 am

continuation of article here.

Screenshot-2025-04-20-at-11-34-44-4-17-25_herald_web_op150.pdf
Reply to  joe x
April 21, 2025 11:45 am

Get any and all promises in writing, and hopefully remedies spelled out if they don’t perform as promised.

John Hultquist
Reply to  joe x
April 20, 2025 9:36 am

Of course solar has its place but a public school usually operates from Sept through May (dates vary) so the best time for solar will not coincide with regular classes. Does the local utility agree to take the excess?
I’d find nearby installations and ask for an audit: cost, usage, payback, problems ?
Using other people’s money (OPM) sounds fine until that’s gone and then the local folks will be asked to cough up more dough to repair and replace panels torn up by wind or hail.
Last time I checked Oklahoma was dead center in Tornado Alley.

Reply to  John Hultquist
April 20, 2025 10:24 am

thanks john, and i must clarify that the city of tecumseh is in s.e. michigan. many cloudy days, occasional hail, snow, ice and located at about 42 degrees north.

John Hultquist
Reply to  joe x
April 20, 2025 12:21 pm

Sorry about my choice of a state and sorry you have to live in the Wolverine State. 🤠
The available sun will be even less at the higher latitude. 

Coeur de Lion
Reply to  joe x
April 20, 2025 12:14 pm

Joe I’m no expert but you need to find out the capital cost of the project and where the money is coming from. If it’s a loan what is the interest and what is the payback agreement. Is it to come from the yield on generation? Over what timescale? Then you must get some good figures for yield per panel in KwH in a year at your latitude. Then work out at your location what the domestic cost of electricity is and what bargain can be struck for a feed in tariff for the excess (weekends, holidays). Then estimate when the school will get its money back. My guess is over ten years,
Oh don’t forget the cost of installing the FIT meters and wiring. Best of luck

April 20, 2025 9:34 am

I read in my local paper that rent prices are increasing due to climate change. Really? How about the solutions to the so called crisis are the reason and not climate change itself. I hold out hope that climate change will be looked at as the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the world and will just be a footnote in history.

Simon
April 20, 2025 2:22 pm

I wonder how people are feeling now that Trump has all but admitted he will not be resolving the Ukraine conflict (unless it is sorted in the next few days).
Are people angry he lied to them? Or do they give him a pass because it was tougher than he thought. Either way this is a monumental fail for him. He is either so far out of touch with international affairs that his delusional “I can fix this” merely showed how inept he is, or he lied knowing full well any quick fix was near impossible. Worse still, he was more than happy to play this card during the campaign so he could get himself elected. Being Trump he will blame everyone else (except Putin) for this fail. Watch……

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 3:00 pm

Have you found the pee pee tape are you ready to admit it was all made up?

Simon
Reply to  Derg
April 20, 2025 3:07 pm

Hmm, no answer huh?

But while you are here. Have you found where I ever said the pee pee tape was real? Nope…. Till them you are just a moronic boring one trick pony liar. DUH!!!rg.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 3:12 pm

Hey you are the moron who believes in Colluuuusion. So are you going to tell us Biden didn’t have dementia while in office? Covid came from a pangolin? You won’t get Covid with the jab? The jab is safe and effective for everyone? How about men can breastfeed? Men can have babies? Trans medicines are safe and effective for children?

Tell us who is the moron indeed?

Simon
Reply to  Derg
April 20, 2025 3:22 pm

Meanwhile no comment re Trumps failings on Ukraine? Happy with his lies and ineptitude obviously. I rest my case.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 3:37 pm

Dude until you admit you were duped. All new readers need to understand how you can easily be fooled.

Simon
Reply to  Derg
April 20, 2025 3:50 pm

I’m not the one being duped by the liar Trump. I see this morning he posted a photo of Garcia he guy mistakenly sent to El Salvador with a photo shopped MS13 tattoo. We really have got to the point where he doesn’t even try to tell believable lies. This should worry us all but only half the people seem to get the danger.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-kilmar-abrego-garcia-hand-b2735920.html

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 4:00 pm

You were duped dope

Simon
Reply to  Derg
April 20, 2025 5:10 pm

Really I don’t think so fool. Got a source to say the photo is real?

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 5:37 pm

Colluuuusion clown indeed

Simon
Reply to  Derg
April 20, 2025 10:26 pm

The Mueller investigation concluded that the Trump campaign knew about Russian interference in our election, that they welcomed that interference, and that they used it for their benefit.
The report detailed at least 140 points of contact between Trump and 18 of his associates with various Russian nationals. Mueller also identified 10 instances in which Trump actively tried to obstruct justice in order to keep investigators from learning more about his and others’ contacts with Russians.
Among other things that came out of that investigation:
Paul Manafort either admitted guilt or was convicted of: illegal foreign lobbying on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian politicians (Manafort had, in fact, been working illegally as an unregistered agent for pro-Russian interests since 2006), money laundering, tax fraud, lying to investigators, and lying under oath before a grand jury concerning his contact with a Russian associate during the 2016 campaign.
Rick Gates pled guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States, as well as one count of making false statements to the FBI and to the Special Counsel about his status as a foreign agent for Ukraine (he was working together with Manafort on behalf of pro-Russian politicians).
George Papadopoulos was convicted of lying to investigators about his contacts with two Russian nationals and a professor connected to Russia. Papadopoulos lied about having discussions with them regarding the dirt the Russians claimed to have on Hillary Clinton, as well as about Papadopoulos’s attempts to plan a Trump campaign trip to Russia.
Richard Pinedo was convicted of selling bank account numbers to Russians who engaged in election interference.
Roger Stone was convicted of five counts of lying to Congress on matters related to the Trump campaign’s potential ties to Russia and the records he had of them, as well as one count of witness tampering, and one count of obstruction of a proceeding- all related to Russian election interference.
Michael Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his connections to the Russian ambassador.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 2:27 am

Give it up. You were duped. We can see how you were duped because your brain couldn’t see Biden’s cognitive decline.

Reply to  Derg
April 21, 2025 2:20 pm

The question is always: ‘Are they stupid, of deceitful, or both?’

Biden 2000 showed obvious cognitive issues. Ignored by most. (there was an overall decline; some ups and downs; maybe hidden by diet/drugs/etc.; but he was limited all the way through.)

Simon was not duped … he is not, overall, stupid enough to not see how biden was cognitively compromised. He saw it just as well as others and ignored it because he is deceitful.

With respect to the pee tape, he believed it for a short while (because he is emotionally limited), then went along with the narrative because he is deceitful.

It is cool to point out the scumbags, but with Simon it is so readily obvious that even a ‘Simon’ would be able see it.

Reply to  DonM
April 21, 2025 2:28 pm

“Fine people”

Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 10:21 pm

Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the alleged MS-13 member who was deported to El Salvador’s notorious CECOT megaprison last month, told ICE officers he didn’t fear returning to Central America before being loaded onto a one-way flight to his home country, sources tell The Post.

[So he has just nulled reason for the stay of his earlier deportation order… he had said was at risk of retaliation from gangs

In March of that year, ICE took Abrego Garcia into custody after local cops found him socializing with confirmed MS-13 soldiers in a Maryland Home Depot parking lot and he was found to be in the US illegally.

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 1:07 pm

Gotta a source for this bullshite?

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 1:31 pm

US State dept and police .. All official channels

Living in DENIAL of facts is a far-left trait you need to overcome.

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 4:54 pm

Soooo….. you got nothing. Just stuff you made up. How unusual.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 22, 2025 12:40 am

Hello pot

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 12:01 pm

The source is the POTUS. Other than some UK rag that thinks its their province to muck around in US politics, what source do you have regarding the legitimacy of either photo? You have a reputation and your belief is consistent with your reputation.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 21, 2025 1:12 pm

The source is the POTUS. Other than some UK rag….
Are you serious? Trump is the most recorded liar in US presidential history. The man does not have those tattoos. It’s fake. If you think I am wrong find another photo with his hand showing these tattoos.

So… once again Trump has lied again to the people. He is literally mocking his supporters by posting this so easily provable lie. He is telling the world I can tell them anything and they will race to believe and defend me. You lot are literally living proof of this. Sad…..

Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 10:17 pm

Would you invite an illegal immigrant and MS-13 member to live with you ??

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 1:13 pm

I see your art of the deal clown has plunged the Dow another 3% this morning by picking a fight with the Fed Chair. Hope you got your money where your mouth is and have bought lots of shares.
It’s looking more likely by the day that the US will go into recession thanks to the 6 times bankrupt convicted fraudster. What-a-guy.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:56 am

You are certain about the ‘Photoshopping’ because you did it? Or is it just something you want to believe? What independent evidence do you have that the recent photos weren’t ‘Photoshopped?’ Either are possible events, but it is generally easier to erase something.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 1:29 pm

The symbols on his knuckles are visible on the picture taken during his meeting with Holland in El Salvador.
They show clearly he is an MS-13 member.. ie a member of a known terrorist gang. He is also an illegal immigrant, a wife beater and a people smuggler.

Just the sort of person you would support.

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 4:55 pm

The symbols on his knuckles are visible on the picture taken during his meeting with Holland in El Salvador.”
Link please?

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 5:54 pm

I am going to go out on a limb and say you got no link and that you will disappear. If there were symbols showing he was MS 13, Trump would not have had to make up such a big lie.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 10:05 pm

There are symbol clearly seen on his hand…. once you take your hands away from in front of your eyes and bother to look.

None so blind and dumb as those that refuse to see the obvious.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 10:15 pm

This image of the hand of Abrego-Garcia, the MS-13 terrorist gang member…. with the gang interpreted meaning of each symbol added.

If you find a video of Holland’s meeting you can see these symbols on the back of Abrego-Garcia’s hand.

Wilful blindness is all you have left.

ms-13-tattoos
Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 22, 2025 11:46 am

I have seen the meeting with Holland and there is no MS13 on his hand. No wonder you think Trumps lies are something to be proud of. You seem to celebrate them…. enjoy the damage they do.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:00 pm

Plenty more proof..

Abr-1
Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:01 pm

In 2019 he was arrested in the company of two well known gang members

abr2
Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:07 pm

continued…

Abr-4
Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 22, 2025 11:49 am

No photo huh? Anyone can make this stuff up. Even the president of the USA it seems.
I want to see this guy given a fair hearing in a court like he was promised when the judge issued the stay of deportation. In my world that is reasonable. Trumps way leads down a path of government knows best, no need for courts and I thought your team hated that.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:51 am

You rest your case before the trial ends, convinced that you can tell what next week’s weather will be like.

Mr.
Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 4:02 pm

You obviously had a lot of faith & confidence in Trump’s ability to stop a continuing war on day one between 2 distant countries whose immediate next-door neighbors were too timid to intervene in, and in which the former US president was no doubt still relying on “10% for the Big Guy”.

See, rhetoric is guaranteed to work every time on leftists.

A “grain of salt”, taken with rhetorical utterances from any source, goes a long way to preventing our heads from exploding, Simon.

Simon
Reply to  Mr.
April 21, 2025 6:55 pm

You obviously had a lot of faith & confidence in Trump’s ability to stop a continuing war on day one between 2 distant countries whose immediate next-door neighbors were too timid to intervene in, and in which the former US president was no doubt still relying on “10% for the Big Guy”.”
Nope, no faith at all. I knew he was full of BS. He just says stuff to win favor from those who don’t think. He is credible to the gullible.

How could anyone genuinely believe a con man business man would be able to sort out that mess. He certainly wasn’t going to do it by attacking the victim.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 10:00 pm

You believed that a dementia ridden twit was in charge of the US.

You seem quite ok with said demented president accepting 10% of the graft his sons were raking in.

Trump is the only one even attempting to stop the war.. He is fighting a battle against Zelensky and the EU, who seem hell-bent on keeping the war going, and Putin on the other side who wants his fellow Russians in west Ukraine to be safe.

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 22, 2025 12:41 am

We agree, you are a known liar

Reply to  Simon
April 22, 2025 6:42 am

The real question is would Biden or Harris have done any better in stopping the war, not whether Trump has been unable even though he is still trying.

Making an attempt but failing is not an action worthy of contempt. Grow up into an adult!

Simon
Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 24, 2025 1:43 pm

The real question is would Biden or Harris have done any better in stopping the war, not whether Trump has been unable even though he is still trying.”

No here is the real difference. They (Biden Harris) didn’t brag about being able to stop this war sooo easily. Didn’t campaign on it. Trump did. And every pundit who knows about this conflict knew he was lying (or delusional). And now we see he had nothing but empty threats and BS. He duped those stupid enough to believe in him and vote for him. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

So what will he lie about next? He wants to sack the fed chair. He doesn’t want to sack the fed chair? China want to talk, China doesn’t want to talk? Tariffs will work straight away tariffs will take time? Hegseth is not sacked, Hegseth is sacked?

He may have started strongly this time round but things are looking way more ominous. So be an adult and look at what is happening, the smart people are.

Reply to  Simon
April 20, 2025 9:48 pm

Trump has made more effort to stop this war than ANYONE.

In fact he is only one trying to stop it.

Because of the petulance and intransigence of Putin AND Zelensky, it is proving more difficult than expected.

Putin wants to protect his country from NATO, and protect his countrymen in the west of Ukraine from Zelinsky’s Azov brigade. He wants peace, but not on Zelinsky/NATO terms.

Zelinsky acts like a petulant child, and wants back to status quo, where he controls and bullies the western region, which is predominant Russian heritage.. He does not want peace, he wants the EU/NATO countries to keep sending him arms and particularly MONEY.

Zelensky is getting VERY RICH because of this war.. why would he want it to stop?

Zelensky owns over 12 real estate properties, 8 Cars, and 5 Luxury Yachts. Zelensky’s Assets also include Cash reserves of over $75 Million. Zelensky also owns an investment portfolio of 15 stocks valued at $60 Million”

Where did it all come from 😉

It is the EU/NATO countries that continues to fund and support this war, not Trump.

They want Ukraine as part of NATO, totally against the Minsk accords.

Simon
Reply to  bnice2000
April 21, 2025 1:40 pm

Wow… so Putin such a nice guy and Zelenskyy the villain. Wow…..

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 2:30 pm

Bnice made the point that NO ONE but Trump has put any effort into stopping this war.

UK (Boris) put specially effort into keeping it going.

Yes, Zelinsky is also a piece of crap.

There is black; there is white; and there is an unlimited number of options in between. The Lazy and deceitful only want to focus on two of the infinite possibilities.

Simon
Reply to  DonM
April 21, 2025 7:06 pm

Bnice made the point that NO ONE but Trump has put any effort into stopping this war.”
But his point was a poorly formed inaccurate opinion. Biden took the view Putin is a thug and the best way to deal with thugs is to give the other team arms. Did that work…. maybe it was maybe it wasn’t, these things take time. But Trumps outrageous performance in the Whitehouse with Vance was unforgivable and could certainly not be called an effort to finish the war. Ukraine has already been betrayed by Putins lying (they gave up their nukes with the understanding Russia would not invade) and they will not lay down their arms again till they get an assurance he will not do the same thing again.
As for the idiot Trump saying the other day Ukraine started the war. What a prat.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 9:52 pm

Letting NATO expand within Ukraine.. against the Minsk Accords.

Allow Azov to continually bomb the Donbas region and other western regions where Russians live…

So yes, Zelensky was a major reason this war started.

It was Zelensky that caused the issue in the Whitehouse meeting. He came to sign an agreement already made, and acted like a spoilt entitled brat.. as he always does… yes it was unforgivable.
His continued petulance and entitlement is one of main reasons this war continues.

Ukraine has very few arms left to lay down.. All the arms are coming from NATO countries.

Why are you so ill-informed ???

Next you will be saying Israel started the war in Gaza. !

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 3:08 pm

Zelensky is a nice guy.. roflmao.. You really are deluded..

You seem incapable of understanding what I wrote…

“Because of the petulance and intransigence of Putin AND Zelensky”

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 11:49 am

I think that you need to read the book, “The Art of the Deal.” You are very naive.

Simon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 21, 2025 1:36 pm

You know Trump didn’t even write the book don’t you.

Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 3:09 pm

But he understand FAR more about it than you will ever be capable of.

As usual, you seem particularly ignorant of what is actually going on. Why is that ?

Mr.
Reply to  Simon
April 21, 2025 3:48 pm

Very few public figures actually sit down and write their memoirs or books themselves, Simon.

They are mostly interviewed about topical aspects by various researchers / writers, who submit drafts for approval by the subjects. Many drafts languish on the shelves of subjects and/or publishers and never make into print or even e-book versions.

(Disclosure – I worked as a proof reader for a publishing house for number of years, and I’ve read quite few book drafts that never made it into public release.
Some because they were just dull, many that were juicy, but . . . lawyers).

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 22, 2025 12:42 am

Trump lives rent free in your head and it is hilarious

Rational Keith
April 20, 2025 2:53 pm
observa
April 21, 2025 7:21 am

Self righteous bunch aren’t they?
Courage is contagious | Opinion
The courage of the disenfranchised mob more like it and for lefties it’s always all about the struggle. More like hands off our hands in the till as Trump Republicans are really a counter-revolution for normalcy over the crazies that were sending the country broke and with it the world’s trading currency. The new Jacksonian Democrat learned all about the swamp creatures and their ways from his last stint so this time around he brought a bunch of like committed Washington outsiders for the cleanup. Welcome to the Four Year Great Leap Forward and the Fearless Leader lefties. LOL.

observa
Reply to  observa
April 21, 2025 7:57 am

PS: Nah Americans didn’t move to the right they simply moved well away from the wrong-
US ‘shifted’ toward the right side of politics
Keep it up for the mid terms crazies.

Neutral1966
April 21, 2025 10:42 am

I’m surprised nobody has picked this one up and run with it! As mentioned a few days ago, Arctic Sea Ice loss this April is still extremely slow….. probably record breakingly slowcomment image