Automobiles, human nature, and the challenge of building cars that people actually want

From the BOE REPORT

 Terry Etam

Some people out there have an inner itch to do things different. Maybe it’s art, or music, or some other glorious pastime that we as the rest of humanity benefit from, far, far more than we pay. What sort of car these types drive is fascinating; usually something quirky or wonderfully weird; Neil Young spent years before he made it big driving an old hearse, various narcotics taped under the dash.

Others think completely differently, bone-dry aesthetically-speaking; thinkers who just want to make things better. Their inner guiding light is efficiency. I had a genius uncle, a farm boy who made it to high levels in national security in Ottawa through no formal education and sheer ingenuity, who would love describing how he could achieve 70 miles per gallon driving carefully and methodically and under-the-speed-limit around Ottawa in a tiny car, joyously oblivious to Type A heads exploding in his rear-view mirror.

Most people are somewhere in the middle, neither artists nor efficiency maniacs, a space that is quite comfortable for most of humanity. We like nice things, we like how they look, but we also care about practicality. We want to be different from everyone else! But just a bit, or that’s weird. And we all want to drive! Even if it is getting harder and harder for today’s youth to afford it, that drive is still there if finances allow.

This overwhelmingly dominant trait can drive the two extreme camps crazy, a battle that becomes stark and vivid in the automotive industry. Our automotive choices make a statement whether it is intentional or not, and whether we want it or not, because nothing makes a person easier to judge than their automotive preferences.

That’s a reality that people who want to change the world have to accept. It is a very hard thing to swallow, particularly for logicians who can make a near-perfect argument as to why one choice is clearly superior to another, and yet people will look you in the eye and do the opposite. (Long ago when minivans were fully earning their stripes as useful and comfortable transport, about when the perplexing stigma of minivan ownership was setting in, I watched a friend of a friend, standing five-foot-not-much, try and wrestle a mountain bike onto the roof rack of her SUV (yes, yes, I helped), and as she did so she said, “What I really need is a minivan but what would people think of me if I drove one?”)

Minivan vs. SUV was symbolic of the sheer power of how the 80-percent-in-the-middle will shape the landscape, to the extent that personal choice is allowed (hope you’re not scoffing at that, if so, see: federal 2035 all-EV mandate). Because I’m petty and juvenile, it used to fill me with scorn to see people sub-optimize such an expensive purchase on the altar of ‘what other people think of me’. 

I’m still petty and juvenile, but have gained enough miles under my wheels to know that things aren’t so simple, and even if they are, it is hardly any of my business what people choose or why. Some care about resale value. Some like an available colour. Some like the feel of the steering wheel or comfort of the seats or the look of the front grille. So what.

It’s not easy for automakers either, because it’s not just that people will actually make auto purchase decisions based on some ridiculously small feature, but also that the lead time from when consumer preferences head in a new direction can be far less than the time it takes to develop a new vehicle. For example, a significant change in gas prices can lead to a preference, or abhorrence, for small, fuel efficient cars, while manufacturers won’t really be able to fully reflect this for a few years. 

That’s what makes the EV ‘transition’ so fascinating. If there is one thing that is glaringly obvious in the whole topic, it is that people absolutely do not purchase ‘what they are supposed to’. You can’t make any sense out of it, because the whims and motivations come from external influences that are unpredictable. If Taylor Swift started driving a black Toyota Corolla sedan all of a sudden, what do you think would happen to black Toyota Corolla sedan sales? Not sales of grey ones though, pah! What am I, crazy? Who’d be caught dead in one of those things?

So now, particularly here in Canada but in many other jurisdictions including California, drivers are being told they will not be allowed to buy any new vehicle that isn’t EV, nor will manufacturers be allowed to sell anything that isn’t an EV. 29dk2902lhttps://boereport.com/29dk2902l.html

The manufacturers are playing their part, nervously unveiling EV after EV after EV. They advertise the crap out of them, auto publications dutifully test and review them, and the media breathlessly reports how a model’s sales skyrocket by, say 33 percent, when sales go from 3 to 4 units per month.

The media also jumped all over stories about huge demand backlogs, how some new model about to enter showrooms has thousands and thousands of orders or deposits. In 2021, news widely circulated that “Ford F-150 Lightning pre-orders have been closed after nearly 200k reservations”, or Motor Trend’s “Ford Takes in More Than 44,500 F-150 Lightning Orders in 48 Hours”.

Think about how amazing that order book is. A mass manufacturer like Ford is so swamped with interest that they simply must grandiosely and loudly announce: “Sorry Sir or Madam, we can no longer take your order, our success is just too overwhelming.” Many manufacturers reported similar order-book hysteria. 

It turns out that the story was surreal, but not quite as it sounds. Through all of 2022, Ford sold only 15,617 electric pickups. The headlines for 2022 results remain starry eyed and insipid: “Ford Tripled BEV Sales In December, Doubled In 2022”, although that couldn’t hold a candle to the infantile enthrallment saved for late 2023: “Ford F-150 Lightning breaks monthly sales record, doubling in November”. 

Sales in November 2023 did indeed ‘double’ compared to the prior November, but in the entire quarter Ford sold only 11,905 units. In the two years after the hail-the-future order book bumper crop, Ford only sold about 40,000 F-150 Lightnings. In two years. Recently Ford announced a halving of 2024 production plans down to about 1,600 units per week, or just under 7,000 per month. 

Keep in mind that in 2023 Ford sold over 750,000 F-150 internal combustion pickups in the US, and many of these go to urban dwellers for whom an EV pickup might make total sense – ones that rarely leave the city (EVs are in general far better suited to urban environments where they can scoot home safely to a nice warm private charging station every night). 

Which brings us back to consumer behaviour again, that mystifying and surely exasperating trait of humanity that no amount of cajoling and ‘proper thinking’ will break. “Two hundred thousand reservations!” to “Slashing production forecasts!” In half. On a variant of the most popular vehicle in the US.

Tesla continues to dominate EV sales, and many people, when they decide they want an EV, mean they want a Tesla (in the pickup world, Rivian might be the Tesla of EV pickups, time will tell). Major auto manufacturers are having a very difficult time seeing EV sales grow to any level that would approach profitability. 

It’s hard not to feel bad for them, if one can or should feel bad for huge corporations. How on earth does one plan for the coming year, when two hundred thousand consumers say yes, I want one of those, but then 80 percent change their mind by the time Ford can actually manufacture them?

But observe; whispering in their manufacturing ears are governments saying not subtly that “Don’t worry, we will be legislating internal combustion out of existence, just build them and they will come…” Said less loudly is the supporting evidence: “because they have no choice.” Well, it worked for a while in the Soviet Union didn’t it? 

Making things even more complicated for manufacturers are upcoming elections in the US (this year) and Canada (what feels like an eternity but is really only 1.5 years) that could see either minor or major revisions to EV policy rollouts of the past few years. 

But forget all the uncertainty surrounding manufacturers; that all gets trumped (no pun intended) by the human element. Here’s an important realization that we all need to accept: Some stuff just gives us a sense of belonging with others in a way that is critical to mental well being. Some people like to dress in the latest fashion. Some get the most popular hair styling. Some drive a rugged SUV because of what it says about them.

That can make manufacturers pull their hair out, because something illogical might be their biggest hit ever. But on top of that one must now layer the rancid decay of politics. EV sales seem to be falling along political fault lines, which in a way is not surprising: one side of the political spectrum sees climate change as a moral imperative to be dealt with as rapidly as possible, and that element, to the extent it can afford it, is responsible for the highest uptake of EVs (it is another sign that ‘left wing vs. right wing’ is a historical anachronism of little value any more; the traditional ‘left’ represented the working class, the downtrodden, the ones that needed a safety net; today’s main EV purchasers are wealthy enough to pursue Teslas first and foremost, often with a multi-car garage full of options). EV as political statement is yet another example of how our preferences link us to a tribe of our choice, rational or not, and it will be supra-humanly difficult to change that, whether in Canada or the US or Togo.

All one can conclude from this hodgepodge of observations is that the auto market will continue to reflect certain aspects of human nature that we may not even be aware of ourselves, and also reflect physical, financial and security realities/rationales that will not be changed by government edict. I have no idea what that means in terms of a transition to EVs, and that trajectory could change with the development of new battery technology, for example. But at present, it should be clear, based on examples like the Ford F-150 Lightning EV experience, that human enthusiasm and professed care does not necessarily translate well into the cold hard reality of what people put their money down on.

It is a nuanced world. People are imperfect and beautifully so, it adds colour to the world. Either the landscape is more or less free, where people express themselves as they wish, or it is a closed quasi- or full-dictatorship where that is not permitted (see: censorship, over-reaching legislation, thought police/moralistic systemic governmental intervention, personal carbon budgets, etc.). The latter never succeeds because it fights human nature, and the former has elements that make no sense outside one’s own circle of people that get it. I choose not to be part of some tribes, but I probably choose to be part of others, and likely do so subconsciously, which makes the whole thing even trickier. 

Current politicians and WEF-types believe they have a blueprint for humanity to unroll. It is an absurdity, if for no other reason than they can’t comprehend the complex realities of 8 billion people whom they are trying to force in a certain direction. They are trying to force them all into metaphorical minivans, because minivans make more sense than anything else. They will fail. 

Energy conversations should be positive and, most of all, grounded in reality. Life depends on it. Find out more in  “The End of Fossil Fuel Insanity” at Amazon.caIndigo.ca, or Amazon.com. Thanks!

Read more insightful analysis from Terry Etam here, or email Terry here.

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2hotel9
January 28, 2024 6:06 am

There is zero challenge to this. People do not want plugin electric toys, they want real vehicles powered by gasoline, diesel or LNG. Period. Full stop.

Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 6:47 am

“People do not want plugin electric toys”
__________________________________

Some people do want electric cars.

What people don’t want is the government telling them where to go, when to go, how to go, and what to do when they get there.

Pretty much what the “You will own nothing and be happy” Great Reset is all about. The “be happy” part is the sales pitch that obviously isn’t part of the plan.

So we’re stuck with cars that beep at us to “Check the Back Seat” and all sorts of warning lights, wheel shakers, and claxons designed to save us from ourselves.

We are pot dwelling frogs and the temperature is rising.

barryjo
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 7:01 am

And that little tag next to the speedometer that immediately tells you the road’s speed limit when you enter a different speed limit zone.

Reply to  barryjo
January 28, 2024 8:17 am

I pretty much like that little speed limit tag. On short trips around town I drive the limit so I want to know what it is. You won’t save any time speeding. Cross country all day long buzzing down the freeway you will save time unless you’re stopped for speeding (-:

So far the car doesn’t beep at you for speeding. But that along with finally controlling your speed is in the pipeline. And putting tape over the camera aimed at your nose will prevent the car from starting.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 2:46 pm

The manufacturers are playing their part, nervously unveiling EV after EV after EV. They advertise the crap out of them, auto publications dutifully test and review them, and the media breathlessly reports how a model’s sales skyrocket by, say 33 percent, when sales go from 3 to 4 units per month.

Sounds like many a proponent of EVs on this site

EVs have a 60% surge in sales which is actually a 2.2% market share increase

Reply to  Bryan A
January 28, 2024 4:09 pm

Uh you put in quotes and made it look like that’s what I said, I did not say, “he manufacturers are playing their part,…..

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 7:12 pm

My quote is from the article itself not a quote from you. I simply placed it directly under your post

Lee Riffee
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 8:06 am

Luckily my vehicles don’t have crap like that on them. The newest one is a 2014, the older is a 2011. It’s not surprising that new cars aren’t selling all that well, given that most of them have the garbage you refer to, plus very high prices.
Eric Peters (who test drives new cars) has a blog that goes into detail about these issues.
https://www.ericpetersautos.com/

Reply to  Lee Riffee
January 28, 2024 9:17 am

I am glad you mentioned https://www.ericpetersautos.com/

He is quite insightful about the problems of EVs and “modern” new cars

John Hultquist
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 11:06 am

So we’re stuck with cars that beep at us …”
My ICE (2019) F150 is quite sure a trailer is connected, then unconnected, and its turn signals are not working properly.
I am sure there is not a trailer despite what the truck says.

Bryan A
Reply to  John Hultquist
January 28, 2024 7:14 pm

While riding in my Cadillac
What to my surprise
A little Nash Rambler was following me
About one third my size
The guy must’ve wanted to pass me up
As he kept on tooting his horn
I’ll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn..

Beep, beep, beep, beep
His horn went beep, beep, beep

Reply to  Bryan A
January 29, 2024 7:27 am

I loved that song when I was a kid well below driving age. One of my all-time favorite novelty songs.

Mr.
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 1:08 pm

The “and be happy” part of the WEF / UN / Great Reset / Global Governance / Agenda 21 / authoritarianism edict refers to the compulsory chemical lobotomies they envisage / intend for all humans (except them of course).

A future “unhappiness” pandemic will be declared, and to “keep us safe”, there will be a new mandatory “vaccine”.

Of course it will be “safe and effective”.

(And it will also strangely resemble what used to be called a “lobotomy”)

2hotel9
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 3:30 pm

No, people don’t want plugin electric toys. THAT is the point. People want real vehicles, not a piece of shyte that has to be plugged into a receptacle. Make cars and trucks etc etc that operate from an ICE of whatever flavor and they WILL sell. Wake the f*ck up.

Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 4:14 pm

Who are you to declare what people want? Some people really do wan electrics, it’s just that it’s unfair for them to enlist the government (tax payers) to pay for them.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Case
January 28, 2024 7:18 pm

For a government to forcibly back any one technology over another gives one technology an unfair advantage especially an inferior technology as is happening with transportation and forced adoption of the inferior BEV tech.

2hotel9
Reply to  Steve Case
January 29, 2024 3:58 am

The people have declared what they want. You are so willfully stupid I am amazed you don’t drown on your own spit, idiot.

Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 6:52 am

“our preferences link us to a tribe of our choice”.
If your tribe is Science®! then you WANT an EV. You can save the polar bears without have to walk your 15 minute city to the grocery store.
How many of the Science®! tribe can explain Stefan-Boltzmann, Beer-Lambert or Wein’s curve? Doesn’t matter, it’s not about science, or facts, or truth, it’s about membership, belonging to a tribe, number 3 on Maslow’s hierarchy, way above problem solving, lack of prejudice, acceptance of facts.

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9

Reply to  David Pentland
January 28, 2024 7:00 am

.

Screenshot_20240128-095509_Chrome
2hotel9
Reply to  David Pentland
January 28, 2024 3:31 pm

No. Science is not a tribe. You. Fail.

Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 4:24 pm

tribe/cult… viva-la-diff ! 😉

Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 5:07 pm

Not Science, Science®!

As in trust the Science®!

2hotel9
Reply to  David Pentland
January 29, 2024 4:01 am

Again, since you clearly have reading comprehension issues, science is not a tribe.

Curious George
Reply to  2hotel9
January 28, 2024 8:20 am

I want a real electric car, not a Contergan car.

January 28, 2024 6:27 am

When I read Minivan I thought of one of these, or perhaps in its van form no rear windows or seats. But I suppose it’s something else?

1000012153
barryjo
Reply to  Ben_Vorlich
January 28, 2024 7:03 am

A severly down-sized panel truck.

Bryan A
Reply to  barryjo
January 28, 2024 4:25 pm

Looks like a slightly up sized pedal car

Drake
Reply to  Ben_Vorlich
January 28, 2024 7:07 am

Nope

comment image

comment image

On a US typical minivan as mentioned, the back door, or later, both back doors open to allow really easy access for passengers. They were very good for hauling kids around with the ability to drop them and their stuff off quickly.

Since minivans were, in general, underpowered, “men” in the US were supposed to be ashamed to drive a minivan or deliver their children, thus the drop in sales and the advent of the ‘sporty’ minisuv as a replacement.

The minisuv is, in general, quieter, more comfortable and fuel efficient for up to 5 passengers, but can’t touch a minivan for number of passengers, their comfort and ease of ingress and egress.

I would almost think that the end of the minivan has as much to do with the end of large families as anything else.

Ford still makes the Transit Connect. Chevy makes the Astro. But these are bigger than a true minivan was. They are more midivans.

Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 7:19 am

When I hear someone say minivan, I always think; if I have a problem, if no one else can help, and if I can find one.. maybe I can hire a minivan.

Film-Cars
John Oliver
Reply to  PariahDog
January 28, 2024 9:13 am

I have been a van guy almost my entire life. Got into them for work related reasons and discovered they were also the most versatile choice general. Full size ones for my tradesman business and “ mini” when something a little smaller and fuel efficient fits the purpose. But I love little sport econo boxes too.

Start taken away Americans car choices and there will be a revolt.

Reply to  John Oliver
January 28, 2024 4:23 pm

yea, six guys in a wilderness bunker, surrounded by 150 ATF agents in armour carrying battle rifles and fire starting rockets.

Drake
Reply to  PariahDog
January 28, 2024 10:21 am

Sorry but that is a VAN, not a minivan.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Drake
January 29, 2024 2:34 am

They were called panel trucks when introduced. A van was what we now call a box truck. Used to be you didn’t rent a moving truck, you rented a moving van. But now you rent a moving truck or a cargo van.

Google moving van and you’ll get a ton of hits for moving truck, along with rentals of Transits and the other brands “world vans” of cargo vans.

As of 2024, Chevrolet is the sole* manufacturer of the “traditional” panel truck / van, since Nissan entered and left that chat with their Nissan Van that was sort of an underpowered throwback to the 1975-1991 Ford Econoline styling.

*Since 2015 Ford has continued to have the E-Series available but only as a “cutaway” cab and chassis or stripped chassis for builders of box trucks, ambulances, class C RVs and specialty vehicles.

Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 7:51 am

The modern minivan fills the niche that the station wagon used to fill in days of yore. Minivans and SUVs survived mostly because of CAFE loopholes. We have a Pacifica, which even with a normally aspirated V6 has more power than most 1960s muscle cars. It seats 7 in 3 rows, and has seats that stow in the floor, which makes it functionally equivalent to a pickup truck. It’s a fine road trip vehicle. Our other car is also a very good road trip car: a Mustang GT with the built in theft protection system (manual transmission). Funny thing is that even with the Coyote V8, the Mustang gets slightly better gas mileage than the minivan. I think I’d only get an EV if I moved to The Villages, and then it would probably be of the golf cart variety.

Reply to  Chris Hall
January 28, 2024 8:22 am

Ahh the days of yore, when even Batman drove a station wagon!

Batman
MarkW
Reply to  Chris Hall
January 29, 2024 9:05 am

My parents had a regular van.
Could seat 12 in 4 rows. We usually took the back row out, which reduced the seating to 8, but the cargo space was huge.
They also came in a stretch version which could seat 15 in 5 rows.

Lee Riffee
Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 8:17 am

My parents had a minivan many years ago (when they were really popular) and I hated driving it. Not because it was a minivan, and honestly it was fairly comfortable vehicle and handled OK. But every time I was in a situation where I had to back up (like in a parking lot) I was always afraid I’d run over a child or a short adult. This was before backup cameras were common. Best I could do was to slowly creep back and hope if someone was there in my blind spot, they’d have time to move. I drive a Dodge Ram now and it has far better rear visibility than that old minivan. Granted, I would not see a small child if one was right behind me, but I just back up very slowly.

Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 11:33 am

That’s a People Carrier, really nice comfort wise.

Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 1:16 pm

I feel bad driving a minivan, but when somebody else comments on it I remind them I can keep cargo dry. I fit 4’x8’ sheets of plywood completely flat, and at a lower loading height than any pickup.

Reply to  nutmeg
January 28, 2024 6:27 pm

We had a Torino stationwagon when in DC in the 70s. They were sold on the basis that they could take a sheet of 4×8.

The Expulsive
Reply to  Ben_Vorlich
January 28, 2024 7:13 am

By brother had one of those. It was fun

Reply to  Ben_Vorlich
January 28, 2024 8:12 am

I worked on the Mini production line, it was wrongly priced at £499 and despite selling 5000 plus a week it never made money.

Drake
Reply to  kommando828
January 28, 2024 10:24 am

Mini Cooper, LOL!

My wife wanted one when they started showing up again in the US, it was qut.

Drake
Reply to  Drake
January 28, 2024 10:27 am

Continues: cute. But once she got in one, and realized the sight lines were terrible, she stayed with a small SUV instead. She ended up with the last year 6 cylinder RAV4. Much higher seating position so you can see around corners and down the road.

Bryan A
Reply to  Ben_Vorlich
January 28, 2024 4:26 pm

An accident in that would require a Cooper Scooper to clear it from the road

William Howard
January 28, 2024 6:31 am

Speaking of Tesla – I drove by a dealership yesterday and the lot was overflowing with unsold cars – probably over 200 just at this one dealership – also I didn’t see any cars of potential buyers in the front either – perhaps the bloom is off the rose

Reply to  William Howard
January 28, 2024 8:20 am

“A rose by any other name would smell as sour”
— with apologies to you-know-who

John Hultquist
Reply to  William Howard
January 28, 2024 12:14 pm

Tesla dealership?

Bryan A
Reply to  John Hultquist
January 29, 2024 5:31 am

We have one in Santa Rosa with over 400 in stock

Bryan A
Reply to  Bryan A
January 29, 2024 6:17 am

In fact, our local Carmax has over 4 times the number of Model 3s available (used of course) than out Tesla Dealer has.

The Expulsive
January 28, 2024 6:48 am

Nice to see an article of this nature from Terry.
I currently drive a Bronco Sport and have been very pleased by (not only) its style (it is in Area 51 blue) and its excellent gas consumption (usually 7.1 l/100 km in winter and 6.2 in summer, and I usually drive 10% over, except in Toronto where the mad speed cameras keep that to 5%).
When working as an engineer, I was much involved in auto production work and was up close with hydrogen fuel cells and the basic platform of the current electrical car (I was a consulting engineer for companies in NY). I remember our excitement at the prospect of a 0 emissions platform, which was stymied by cost (classic “do the math”), so that died (I opted to go to law school).
My mentor had been one of the gentlemen who worked on the original CANDU, and he drilled into me the requirement of do the math, telling me that the average person was at a disadvantage when it came to these things because they could not do the math. He rated politicians as “average”, and explained that those who speak of a future using only electricity had no real understanding of the difficulty, cost or time to achieve the desired outcome…in fact the near impossibility (the example he used was just how long it had taken to electrify the 95% of Canada connected to a grid). He also spoke to the biggest error Ontario made w.r.t. CANDU, that is, scaling a unit up from what he felt was the ideal size of around 250 MW.
I also know that new battery technology, that has better density that lithium ion, is going to be extremely difficult, so I am not holding out hope on that (where is “Mr. Fusion” when you need it?).
All that leading me to state, once again, if you want reliable power, wind turbines and solar farms are a false dream, and if you can’t sell EVs without massive subsidies, there is something wrong with your model.
TTFN

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  The Expulsive
January 28, 2024 11:05 am

Any greenie can tell you that we will be making huge strides in battery technology because it is a new technology and new technologies always start slow and get better over time. They will also tell you Elon Musk invented the electric car.

MarkW
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
January 29, 2024 9:08 am

Most greenies refuse to believe that the electric car actually predated the ICE.

Tom Halla
January 28, 2024 6:49 am

All the peasant scum need are sandals and public transit.

rbcherba
January 28, 2024 7:30 am

I’m an 87yo who seldom gets out of town. I also have an old (’59) EE degree and you might think I’d be rushing to buy an EV to scoot to the grocery store and our medical appointments. But, I confess that my 33y in and around generating plants (30y in nuclear) causes me not to trust anything that runs on a big battery. We’re still driving our ’96 Chevy Tahoe and will until it “dies” or I die — whichever comes first.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
January 28, 2024 7:49 am

To each their own. EVs make sense for certain people’s situation, environment, and liking. Fact is, despite government meddling, more ICE cars are sold each year than ever before. Just like despite the governments push to kill fossil fuels more are being used every year than before. Moral? You can demand and even legislate some changes but not all and people will do what’s best for themselves.

strativarius
January 28, 2024 7:57 am

Neil Young spent years before he made it big driving an old hearse

You can get quite a lot of musical kit in the back…

January 28, 2024 8:09 am

There has already been a personal transport war, the horse was replaced by the horseless carriage. The power plants on offer were petrol/steam and battery. Without any purchase subsidies, tax breaks or funding of petrol stations the petrol power plant won and won easily. Without the subsidies, tax breaks, nudge unit propaganda and govt funding of charging stations the EV car would just be a niche product used in city centres.

January 28, 2024 8:16 am

From the above article:
“Tesla continues to dominate EV sales, and many people, when they decide they want an EV, mean they want a Tesla (in the pickup world, Rivian might be the Tesla of EV pickups, time will tell). Major auto manufacturers are having a very difficult time seeing EV sales grow to any level that would approach profitability.”

Speaking of Rivian, here is some relevant “spin” for you:
“Although we were negative on Rivian stock when the company went public in November 2021 due to its lofty valuation, which at one point stood at over $130 per share (translating into a $100 billion-plus market cap), we think the stock is good value at current levels of about $22 per share.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2023/10/05/is-rivian-stock-undervalued-following-surprisingly-strong-delivery-numbers/?sh=1b560c8f2531

You just cannot make up such comedy . . . ROTFL!

Reply to  ToldYouSo
January 28, 2024 8:48 am

On the way to work the other day, we passed a Tesla Service van. I was amused to see that it was a Ford ICE vehicle.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
January 28, 2024 9:02 am

A funny scene in a documentary was when two electric Harley’s and a Rivian had to get charged up from fossil fuel during the trip from Terra del Fuego to LA.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  ToldYouSo
January 28, 2024 11:10 am

The problem with the new EV companies is that many understand batteries but they know nothing about vehicle design, manufacturing and usage. There is a lot more in a vehicle than the powertrain, and it must perform at close to new specs for many years. The average vehicle in the US fleet is now over 12 years old. It takes many engineers with specialized knowledge to build that kind of a product.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
January 28, 2024 1:50 pm

Good thing about a pickup truck is you can put a decent size diesel generator in the back. 🙂

Reply to  bnice2000
January 28, 2024 6:21 pm

With an EV pickup truck… an absolute necessity !

January 28, 2024 8:40 am

It seems to me that the entire Net Zero is an aspiration of the elite and their actions represent an elite aesthetic.
However, if you try to patronize the local Pick-and-Pull you will find that most people just want something that works and that they can afford to keep running. I doubt EVs can ever cater to that very large niche. Now I must complete the replacement of the heater core in my 2003 Explorer. Thank the weather gods for a pleasant 50 degrees today in SLC!

Bill S
January 28, 2024 8:45 am

The fundamental problem with EVs, climate change hysteria set aside, is that an EV is not an improvement in transportation. If it were, government subsidies, mandates etc would not be necessary. In a fundamentally free market economy, people choose of their own free will to buy products that improve their lives.

No mandates, government subsidies etc were necessary for smart phones, ipads, or personal computers. These devices are sold in the billions of units, creating trillions in new wealth, because people made individual value decisions to spend their own money on a device that makes their life better.

EV’s make life for most people more complicated. Range anxiety, long recharge times, range reductions of 10% to 20% if the weather is too cold or too hot to run the heater or the air conditioning all add to the hassle. Towing a boat, camper, or utility trailer greatly reduces range and therefore utility.

An EV accelerates faster. So what? In most cases in traffic one can only accelerate at the speed of traffic.

EV’s lack any intrinsic improvements over gas powered vehicles, and but for government coercion, will never exceed 10% of the market.

Nik
January 28, 2024 9:15 am

Scenes like this probably won’t help (from “Leave the World Behind.”).

https://youtu.be/4Ox72XdY2Zo

John Oliver
Reply to  Nik
January 28, 2024 9:49 am

Thankyou that is hilarious! I was waiting for robo zombies to appear- well sorta happened.

John Oliver
January 28, 2024 9:28 am

Not much new under the sun. Including electric and hybrid electric “ vehicles “ ( not just cars) : trains, submarines, and cars of yore right after the horse and buggy era. And the physics of a battery any battery no matter how futuristically “advanced” has some very real limits as pointed out by many Ears and physicists.

John Oliver
Reply to  John Oliver
January 28, 2024 9:29 am

EEs not ears- how did that happen!

John Oliver
January 28, 2024 10:03 am

Perhaps no one sticks it to the woke EV crowd better than Auto expert and engineer John Cadogan on You Tube.

Lee Riffee
January 28, 2024 12:27 pm

Imagine if one day the government regulators told soda and canned beverage makers that they could no longer sell drinks with sugar, corn syrup or any kind of sweetener with calories. In other words, all that will be allowed is diet soda and drinks.
Now, if you go to the drink section of your local store you will notice (if you canned drinks) that while diet drinks are available, the non diet kind dominate by far. You will have a lot more flavor/product choices whether you buy Coke, ginger ale, Snapple or whatever.
What would surely happen if such a ban was instigated would be a whole lot less people drinking soda. I rarely drink the stuff, but when I do, I won’t touch the non-diet kind with a ten foot pole. But that’s just me. Looking at the diet to non-diet ration, I’d say more people feel just the opposite. In other words, consumers aren’t just going to buck up and buy something they don’t like. Maybe people would go back to making lemonade and ice tea more, or buying one of those soda-making machines. Who knows. But either way, soda sales would crash.

This is what will (if nothing changes) happen to the auto industry. People will just hold onto old cars as long as they can (many are already doing that because of high prices on new cars). Perhaps industries will spring up to do serious restoration and resale of old vehicles that would, under normal circumstances, end up in the junk yard.

Reply to  Lee Riffee
January 28, 2024 6:37 pm

In the UK they implemented a sugar tax on soft drinks. Many got reformulated with artificial sweetners that left an unpleasant taste.. A few niche brands appeared for things like cordials – some of which are very good, but you pay for the sugar content and avoidance of artificial sweetners. Now, even finding a fully leaded original Pepsi is difficult – and you’ll pay twice the price per can.

The main thing here is that it was supposed to tackle the trend towards obesity. In that, it has been a complete failure.

MarkW
Reply to  It doesnot add up
January 29, 2024 9:16 am

I remember a commercial from several years back. In the end, one woman orders large fries, a double burger, an apple pie and a diet Pepsi.

Her friend looks at her with a puzzled look, and the woman replies. You don’t want me to waste away to nothing, on the first day of my diet.

MarkW
Reply to  Lee Riffee
January 29, 2024 9:14 am

Several left wing cities have already tried to ban sugared sodas.

Bob
January 28, 2024 1:02 pm

Very nice Terry. There is nothing more useless than a solution to a nonexistent problem. These people need to go away.

January 28, 2024 1:21 pm

Washington, DC had its annual auto show this weekend, and put a heavy focus on EV’s. There were far fewer new vehicles on display than previous years (maybe 60% of the number in past shows) and a lot of filler. The most common description was ‘disappointing’.

January 28, 2024 1:55 pm

I guess many of us can see the day when we might actually need an EV ! 🙁

Until then, no thanks.

EV
observa
Reply to  bnice2000
January 28, 2024 3:28 pm
observa
January 28, 2024 3:16 pm

Toyota reckons there’s a 30% ceiling on EV sales-
Toyota Chairman: EVs Will Cap At 30% Of Market (insideevs.com)
EVs only save fuel costs as city runabouts with home charging-
900km (560 mile) electric v petrol challenge: Same cars, same driving, which was cheaper? | CarExpert
Essentially there’s no economic case for widespread use public chargers which is why taxpayers are funding their capital cost leaving a dogs breakfast of maintenance problems. User pays like ICE servos would see EV fuel costs soaring on road trips.

MarkW
Reply to  observa
January 29, 2024 9:18 am

Most of the savings will disappear once government figures out a way to start charging EVs road taxes. Many are already working on that.

January 28, 2024 4:12 pm

“… what do you think would happen to black Toyota Corolla sedan sales? “

About the same as happened to black Trans Am sales after the movie “Smoky and The Bandit” was released. A six to eight months waiting list.

Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
January 28, 2024 6:41 pm

Is Taylor Swift increasing the sales of private jets? She seems to get through about 5,000 gallons a week in Jet A-1.

Reply to  It doesnot add up
January 28, 2024 7:10 pm

That I don’t know, but I’d be happier if her ‘ride’ was “Made in America” rather than in France.

Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
January 28, 2024 8:38 pm

Her current “ride” is from Ohio, not from France 😉

Reply to  bnice2000
January 28, 2024 8:53 pm

She’s racking up a lot more miles in her jet, that’s her ‘ride’.

Reply to  Tombstone Gabby
January 29, 2024 1:37 am

She’s racking up a lot more miles in her jet”

That really sounds like WAY too much information!!

Edward Katz
January 28, 2024 7:13 pm

If the automakers are losing money on EVs, it’s because they were greedy about them in the first place and overpriced them. They believed that government incentives of $5000-7000 would entice people into buying them, so they raised prices too high from the outset. Except $5000-7000 is no big deal when EVs were over $20,000 more than their gas/diesel counterparts. Then when reliability issues with EVs came to the forefront along with low resale values and a shortage of public charging stations, sales targets became to look like many other environmental pipe dreams; i.e., too optimistic in theory but unrealistic in reality. Then when some governments started mandating an end to ICE vehicles, consumer pushback became stronger because they resented being forced into having to buy something they really didn’t want in the first place just because the same governments nurtured the theory that EVs would go a long way to alleviate a “climate crisis” that has never existed except in alarmist propaganda.

observa
Reply to  Edward Katz
January 28, 2024 10:11 pm

Well the climate changers managed to largely sell the plant food dooming meme and the answer was bye bye fossil fuels and besides folks Gaia’s energy will be cheaper. The problem with that is the folks are now waiting for Big Biz and Gummint to do that so they can feel good and enjoy the cheapness. They’re waiting.

MarkW
Reply to  Edward Katz
January 29, 2024 9:20 am

It’s not greed. EVs simply cost more to build.

Jimbobla
January 29, 2024 2:14 am

Our 2 “new” cars are 2012 Honda Accords. I don’t care for anything built since, mostly technology related. Who cares what new cars look like; they all look alike. Last year I bought a 1996 Chevy Cheyenne with a manual transmission in great shape. I Love to drive it. No side curtain air bags. Window is low enough I can roll the window down and can comfortably rest my elbow on the door frame. That is my main bragging point about the truck besides the low tech aspect of it. Manual transmission means I have to drive the truck, not ride around in it. It’s an interactive experience. Besides, when you look at it you know immediately it’s an Old Body Style Chevy. It’s distinctive. It has pleasing lines. New stuff is all designed by Boeing engineers and put together by robots. Can’t fix ’em without a special computer and a special tool. I can accelerate to pass and not have the car decide it’s not a good idea and slow down on its own. If I want to know if a vehicle is next to me, I look.
I could do a 20 minute rant on the new crap being built, but you get my drift.

lb
January 29, 2024 2:17 pm

Nice, thank you for writing this. Reminds me of the book “The insolent chariots” by John Keats.