Sea Level to Rise by 1.2 Metres by 2300 – So What?

Guest essay by Andi Cockroft

Firstly let me say that I am not one of the most technical writers you will see here. I regard myself pretty much as a layman despite studying Geology, Mathematics and Computer Science at University.

So you won’t find all the references to papers (well not many), nor exact scientific formulae. I simply write what I have logically deduced. For any who disagree, or have value to add, please use the Comments below.

So my stance is “SO WHAT”!

Published recently in Nature here, is a peer-reviewed paper entitled “Committed sea-level rise under the Paris Agreement and the legacy of delayed mitigation action

Abstract:-

Sea-level rise is a major consequence of climate change that will continue long after emissions of greenhouse gases have stopped. The 2015 Paris Agreement aims at reducing climate-related risks by reducing greenhouse gas emissions to net zero and limiting global-mean temperature increase. Here we quantify the effect of these constraints on global sea-level rise until 2300, including Antarctic ice-sheet instabilities. We estimate median sea-level rise between 0.7 and 1.2 m, if net-zero greenhouse gas emissions are sustained until 2300, varying with the pathway of emissions during this century. Temperature stabilization below 2 °C is insufficient to hold median sea-level rise until 2300 below 1.5 m. We find that each 5-year delay in near-term peaking of CO2 emissions increases median year 2300 sea-level rise estimates by ca. 0.2 m, and extreme sea-level rise estimates at the 95th percentile by up to 1 m. Our results underline the importance of near-term mitigation action for limiting long-term sea-level rise risks.

I still say “SO WHAT”

And, it seems sea-level rise is selective, perhaps owing to El-Nino events piling up water in the western Pacific:

As a post-war child, growing up in North England, I well remember the days of Rationing (at least the tail-end of it that involved sweeties), spending Farthings and all fine days were outside. I remember being allowed out in the snow for only one day after which it was black with the soot from the satanic mills 30 miles away.

I remember tramping the miles to school through many feet of snow just to get there and find school had been cancelled.

I remember the holidays at the seaside – usually on England’s North West Coast at Blackpool or Morecambe.

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I remember riding donkeys on the beach, eating candy-floss (is that cotton-candy?), and paddling in the frigid waters of the Irish Sea. Blackpool Rock, the Fun Fair, the Trams and most spectacularly the Blackpool Illuminations

But even today, I know (so they tell me), that sea-level has risen over 150mm during the past 50 years – but everything remains as I remember it. The tide still comes to the same place in Blackpool. Floods are no better and no worse than they were back then.

When a Nor-Wester comes through, waves can be many metres – wiping out all trace of a meagre 150mm supposed rise.

So In my lifetime, I can’t for the life of me see through personal physical observation that anything has changed.

Again, my memory is working overtime, and for a while during the early 80’s, I worked in Central London on The Embankment in a large multi-storey office-block. Now whoever designed the computer facilities decided that since The Embankment was prone to occasional flooding (esp. 1953), so quite rightly installed the Main-Frame computers on the 3rd floor – very smart indeed.

Sadly they forgot about the power supply. In those days, main-frames required a very stable power supply without spikes or fluctuations. Most had some smoothing applied to them – In this instance, large “Smoothing Inverters” were installed to ensure the energy was clean. And of course in those days smoothing inverters weren’t the modern solid-state devices we have today, rather they were mechanical devices requiring a large motor turning an attached generator. The idea being the motor would handle any spikes and fluctuations and the generator component would create a nice clean energy source. Not very efficient mechanically or electrically but very good at their intended role.

Shame they had been installed in the basement, so when the first minor flooding took place……..

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Only a few years later, the Thames barrier would be constructed and the flood protection through the City raised to prevent further inundations. The Thames Barrier has an expected useful life till around 2030 at least. So for now The Embankment is safe.

Now it’s also true that I moved to New Zealand in the late 1980’s, and I have become much more interested in revising my University interest in geology, simply because one’s attention tends to be periodically and dramatically drawn to the fact that GodZone is tectonically very active. The recent quakes that started with a less well remembered Canterbury event in 2010, with the big tragedy in Christchurch almost exactly 7 years ago where 185 people died. This was followed by Seddon in 2013 and then Kaikoura in late 2016 – and it seems Kaikoura “wasn’t the big one”! All these have me wondering if quakes along the main north-south fault aren’t moving in a progressively northerly direction. Is Wellington next?

But concentrating on GodZone for a while, simply because I know it – although similar “local” effects can and should be investigated all over the globe.

Here though, if the major Hikurangi plate subduction zone that stretches almost the full length of the North Island and part way down the South were to rupture, a magnitude 9 is predicted. Tsunamis would be not only significant, but massive.

As it is, the Kaikoura quake lifted the seabed and coastal areas by up to 2 metres. OK, so it seems to me that Kaikoura is safe from 1.2 metres sea-level rise even if no further uplifting occurs!

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See from this map post Kaikoura that not only has vertical movement taken place, but significant horizontal displacement as well. GodZone is indeed a restless place!

Now doesn’t this really mean that sea-level rise is purely a localised event and not to be interpreted globally? Seems logical to me.

Around GodZone, places are rising and places are falling – it is generally related to which Tectonic Plate they sit on – Australia to the West – Pacific to the East.

Dotted around GodZone’s capital Wellington, are small plaques embedded in the pavements simply stating “Shoreline 1840”. These make no real sense at first sight since they are hundreds of metres if not kilometres from the nearest seafront.

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But in 1855, an 8.2-magnitude earthquake struck the Wellington region. It lifted the Rimutaka ranges to the north by six metres, caused a 4m-high tsunami in Wellington harbour and uplifted the north-western side of Wellington, up to 1.5m in places.

This created much needed new lands. Wellington’s Airport sits on land uplifted in 1855. And the area continues its relentless march to the skies. So will 1.2 metres sea-level rise bother Wellington? Doesn’t look likely to me.

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From: R.J. Beavan N.J. Litchfield (2012) Vertical land movement around the New Zealand coastline: implications for sea-level rise. Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Limited, Lower Hutt

Then again, some researchers insist that sea level inundation is likely all around GodZone. Following government’s publication of their “New Zealand Coastal Policy Statement (NZCPS)”, all Territorial Authorities were required to carry out a coast hazard assessment out to 100 years.

This led to some Territorial Authorities including their expected inundation areas into District Plans. House prices in these areas were hit hard, with some unable to gain adequate insurance. Overnight hundreds of millions of dollars wiped off residents’ life savings. Applications to build in many of these areas was denied, and prime building land became worthless.

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Locally in Wellington and surrounding suburbs, tsunami inundation marks have magically appeared on roads around the Region, It seems one side of the new lines represents danger, but one metre away safety! This is Island Bay on Wellington’s South Coast – flat as a pancake!!!

Moving on from GodZone, I see frequent posts from that eminent contributor Willis Eschenbach regarding many of the Pacific Island groups such as Tuvalu, Kiribati, The Solomon’s, Vanuatu etc. and how these coral islands actually resist sea-level rise and incredibly seem to be increasing in size.

So ardent were the claims being made that then President of the Maldives staged the now infamous underwater cabinet meeting back in 2009:

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So are coral atolls to disappear? Well an article in National Geographic here suggests not:

….a growing body of evidence amassed by New Zealand coastal geomorphologist Paul Kench, of the University of Auckland’s School of Environment, and colleagues in Australia and Fiji, who have been studying how reef islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans respond to rising sea levels.

They found that reef islands change shape and move around in response to shifting sediments, and that many of them are growing in size, not shrinking, as sea level inches upward. The implication is that many islands—especially less developed ones with few permanent structures—may cope with rising seas well into the next century.

But for the areas that have been transformed by human development, such as the capitals of Kiribati, Tuvalu, and Maldives, the future is considerably gloomier. That’s largely because their many structures—seawalls, roads, and water and electricity systems—are locked in place.

Their analysis, which now extends to more than 600 coral reef islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, indicates that about 80 percent of the islands have remained stable or increased in size (roughly 40 percent in each category). Only 20 percent have shown the net reduction that’s widely assumed to be a typical island’s fate when sea level rises.

Ironically now, the Maldives’ Velana International Airport is undergoing a massive US$400 million extension programme, yet is a mere 2 metres above mean sea level. Seems as though investors don’t believe in sea-level rise!

Speaking of airports, I was quite enthralled at my first ever trip to Holland (yes I know it’s now the Netherlands) in the mid 70’s landing at Schiphol Airport. Number one surprise was seeing police throughout the airport armed with fully automatic weapons – this was at a time of hijacking after all. But secondly, there was a plaque there commemorating the final naval battle with the Spanish that ended their 80-year war. So Schiphol Airport used to be under more than 4 metres of water.

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Hendrick Vroom (ca. 1566-1640), Battle of the Haarlemmermeer

But all that changed when King William I decided in 1837 to reclaim the land. In 1839 the Dutch Parliament agreed. Consequently, a big drainage canal was dug and the excavated material used to build a large dyke. By now, the romantic windmills had given way to steam and three large beam engines were used to empty about 800,000,000 tonnes of water. The new Haarlemmermeer was created.

It seems then that The Netherlands found ways to adapt and even steal land from the sea. London likewise found ways to keep the tides at bay. King Canute would have been proud of both.

Given that the doomsayers are predicting Armageddon in 300 years’ time, just how many of our big city buildings will still be around anyhow?

300 years ago, people generally lived on the land. The Industrial Revolution had not yet begun, although the very earliest steam engines began to make a limited appearance – the Revolution would be decades away though. Newton’s Principia had only recently been published and his Opticks was not to appear till 1703.

The Treaty of Union was enacted to form Great Britain in 1707, and wars still raged across Europe. By now the Dutch were allies of Great Britain and fought together against French and Spanish forces.

The Colonies, most especially the Americas were still to engage in the Revolutionary War when the United States of America would be born. It was to be another 100 years for Canada to become a Dominion and did not gain full independence till 1937.

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The Napoleonic Wars and the American Civil War were hundreds of years in the future. It was to be 50 years before Benjamin Franklyn carried out his first tentative research into Electricity and over 100 years for Morse to add to the invention of the Telegraph. Automobiles hadn’t even been thought of and flight was definitely for the birds.

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Even the bicycle was over a century later with the Laufmaschine (or Velocipede) and the safety bicycle not until the late 19th Century. Ironically the Wright Brothers ran an early bicycle repair shop!

If you brought a Queen Anne subject into today’s electronic society with airplanes, cars, TV, Radio, Cellphones, GPS and Computers – it would all appear as witchcraft. So what awaits us in 300 years – we cannot even imagine. But unless some other catastrophe overtakes mankind such as Nuclear War or Disease then it seems safe to assume our descendants – if they exist at all – will be well able to cope with a metre or so of water.

So I continue to say – even if the doomsayers are correct – SO WHAT!

Comments please by all means.

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James Griffin
February 24, 2018 12:47 pm

In an Ice Age, sea ice increases but sea levels decrease. In an inter-glacial Holocene the opposite is the case.
It is not exactly rocket science.
If you look at Northern Hemisphere sea ice it loses 75% of area during the melting season and you do not even notice it. The same can be said about Southern Hemisphere.
What we are seeing is the beginning of the end of AGW.
With President Trump already ignoring the climate brigade expect legal action at some stage.

Reply to  James Griffin
February 24, 2018 2:18 pm

The melting/freezing of the Arctic each year and its affect on sea levels does not appear to be mentioned in any of these discussions about sea level change. Al and Co are vociferous about how disastrous it would be if the Arctic becomes ice free.
If the loss of Arctic sea ice is such a worry, why do we not see any annual flooding caused by the 75% of same that melts each year?

erik the red
Reply to  John in Oz
February 24, 2018 9:21 pm

The melting / freeing of sea ice has no effect on sea level. It is only the melting of glaciers on land that can increase sea level.

Maggy Wassilieff
February 24, 2018 1:54 pm

I shifted from Island Bay (one street back from the Tsunami Line pic) a couple of years before the Kaikoura Quake to a hill above Kaiti Beach, Gisborne. We are 83m asl. I trust that is high enough to escape the first effects of a tsunami when the Hikurangi Trench blows. However, if there is a major rupture during the height of summer, there will be carnage, as the coast is full of freedom campers.
Some researchers reckon there is a 70-73 yr interval between tsunami-inducing earthquakes in the Gisborne region. The last one here was 1947… so I’ll keep you posted.
https://www.eqc.govt.nz/sites/public_files/1600-tsunami-hazard-Hikurangi-subduction-zone-interface.pdf

February 24, 2018 2:06 pm

“So I continue to say – even if the doomsayers are correct – SO WHAT!”
So wrote the author, and I strongly disagree!
The doomsayers have been wrong for over 30 years
— 40 years if you count the coming ice age idiots
in the 1970s.
They DO NOT DESERVE ANY RESPECT
of assuming they could be right, for the
simple reason that they have no idea what
controls the climate = meaning they have
no idea what they are talking about when
making predictions.
The leftists liars have no idea what the future
climate or sea level will be, and their claim
that CO2 controls the climate is nonsense,
as demonstrated by the inaccurate “climate model”
predictions assuming CO2 does control the climate.
The leftists also have bad character,
using the worst temperature measurements
(surface) because the best methodology
(satellites) shows less warming.
Of course they think satellites are ‘wonderful’ for sea level,
because they show faster SLR than tide gages!
No one knows what the sea level will be in 2023,
much less 2300.
No one should care about predictions.
How many wrong predictions so far?
100%
The coming climate catastrophe,
that will never come,
is nothing more than a scary prediction,
made every year, by smarmy leftist
government bureaucrats, who happen
to have science degrees, but would not know
real science if it sat on them.
These government bureaucrats waste
the taxpayers’ money, and have only one
skill: The ability to make scary predictions
year after year without bursting into laughter!
The climate blog that keeps it simple,
and has monthly climate centerfolds:
http://www.elOnionBloggle.Blogspot.com

anntchristie
Reply to  Richard Greene
February 25, 2018 4:26 am

I have seldom read anything so transparently:
a) misinformed
b) ignorant
c) specious
d) blatantly written by a TROLL, financed by the Fossil Fuel lobby

MarkW
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 7:22 am

I love the way climate alarmist trolls assume that anything they disagree with must be wrong and is probably paid for by the fossil fuel industry.
Reading your previous posts, I have been seriously underwhelmed by both you knowledge and your ability to form clear coherent thoughts.
With this latest post you have completely shredded any reason why others should take anything you write seriously.

paqyfelyc
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 9:39 am

With d) you show yourself a conspiracy theorist.
So you obviously not just read misinformed / ignorant / specious stuff. You believe and spread them

Andi Cockroft
Reply to  anntchristie
February 26, 2018 3:13 pm

Hi antchristie
Could I have some of that money please? Living on a pension without Fossil Fuel Income is very hard.
Cheers
Andi

Jack
February 24, 2018 2:43 pm

How is it possible that the climate alarmists can rely on the satellite observations claiming to be able to measure the sea level with a radar from an altitude of a thousand kms with an accuracy of less than one millimeter (!!!), when we know that the sea conditions may change in the same place from mirror flatness to huge waves tens of meters high. This is beyond my understanding.
We have the available datas of many tide gauges throughout the world some among them are offering 2 centuries old bookings. Those that are installed on stable grounds with no perceptible vertical changes are displaying a slow and steady rise of the sea level about 1,7 mm per year since at least 100 years.
The satellites datas we have since 30 years are claiming twice this number : 3,4 mm/year. Why such a discrepancy?
http://www.psmsl.org http://www.sonel.org http://www.bom.gov.au
The main concern for the warmists is that the tides don’t show any rise surge in the recent years, thus blatantly contradicting their claims regarding the consequences of the ACGW and their dramatic predictions of a one meter and more SLR by the end of this century.

anntchristie
Reply to  Jack
February 25, 2018 4:39 am

Just because your limited intellect cannot understand the science, it doesn’t mean that it is not possible.
I would encourage you to think “humility”, but there is a well-known phenomenon called “The Arrogance of Ignorance”. because only the truly ignorant cannot possibly imagine how much they do not know!

WBWilson
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 7:21 am

Right back at you, Auntychristie. Your rantings above 3:35 show exactly how ignorant and hysterical you really are. Get back to us when the “Rotting corpses” start shooting out of your shower head. Right now you need to take a pill and go to bed.

MarkW
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 7:23 am

Given your complete inability to understand the arguments of anyone who doesn’t already buy into your religion, your whining that others don’t understand the science fall flat.

Tom in Florida
February 24, 2018 2:44 pm

1500 years ago everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago I found out I don’t care about the year 2300.

JohnWho
Reply to  Tom in Florida
February 24, 2018 3:34 pm

“In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find”

Sorry Tom, but something you said just made me want to bust out in song.
🙂

anntchristie
Reply to  Tom in Florida
February 25, 2018 4:40 am

HAHAHA! You will, when the youth of tomorrow drag you out and start flaying the flesh from your bones, as you scream your last hours away… THEY aret he ones your ignorance is robbing of a future. YOU advocate against THEIR having one at all…

MarkW
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 7:25 am

As always, the alarmist troll dreams of being able to kill all those who disagree with their religion.
Even the IPCC (the Bible of your religion) has given up trying to claim that CO2 will be anything worse than, on net harmful.
Yet the trolls keep talking about how CO2 is going to kill us all. And to think, you actually believe you can lecture the rest of us on the science.

paqyfelyc
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 9:47 am

Actually, don’t even have the nuts to “dream of being able to kill all those who disagree with their religion.”
Only dream of others doing the deed. Notice that it must “youth”, for some reason.

Lars P.
Reply to  Tom in Florida
February 26, 2018 1:39 am

“500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat”
nope.
Columbus wanted to get to India to buy pepper and make money from it. He knew the Earth is round, the way through the Mediterranean Sea was blocked by the Arabs, the way around Africa was long, so he took the other way to the west to arrive there…
This is why he named the locals ‘Indians’, he thought he got there, (but he found no pepper, but the time I guess he understood his mistake).
He got his math wrong (must have been common core math), everybody else told him the way around takes three years, he thought it will take only three month….
I think the flat earthers are as numerous now as 500 years ago…

EternalOptimist
February 24, 2018 4:11 pm

I am also from the north west of England and I do remember the tail end of rationing. I also remember walking two miles to school when I was five, uphill through the snow. walking home was uphill as well. which just shows that memory can be a bit selective 🙂
but Andis point is correct. I visited a town called sandwich a few years ago. Sandwich is a delightful town in the south east of England. Near an old bridge is a town ordnance from 1905. Its a list of toll charges for the bridge.
Chariots drawn by 6 horses or other beasts..2 shillings and six pence
dray drawn by less than 4 oxen ….1 shilling
and so on.
that’s just over a hundred years ago. Anyone who claims to see a hundred years into the future , and base current policy on that, is an imbecile.

Simon
Reply to  EternalOptimist
February 24, 2018 6:23 pm

“Anyone who claims to see a hundred years into the future , and base current policy on that, is an imbecile.”
I beg to differ. Anyone who doesn’t take heed of the warnings being offered by those who study this stuff for a living, is beyond stupid.
A 1.2 metre rise would pose serious problems for hundreds of millions of people. Bangladesh has 150 million people. Much of their fertile land sits at near sea level. These people are at the mercy of a rising sea. They will have two options, starve or move. But where to? India also has significant areas that are not far above sea level that are productive. They will not want refugees from over the border, particularly when their land is shrinking and they may well be struggling to feed their own. Conflict and starvation are real possibilities, some would say certainties. And scenarios like this will play out across the planet, and the higher the sea level rise the worse it will be.
So, while people here may like to sit back and quote their memory for why the sea is not rising and justify an attitude of “who cares,” I prefer to listen to those who have better arguments than “I had a donkey ride on a beach that is still there.” I mean, seriously? And so what if Wellington rose a few metres during an earthquake, how does that contribute in any meaningful way to assessing the dangers that lie ahead? Frankly, I’m embarrassed a kiwi would write such simplistic nonsense.

jim
Reply to  Simon
February 24, 2018 7:13 pm

Bangladesh population in 1960 was under 50m it is now 163m.
And your point is what exactly?

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Simon
February 24, 2018 7:43 pm

Bangladesh has 150 million people. They will have two options, starve or move.”
Or build sea walls and drain ocean bottom, just like the Dutch in the Netherlands.
The real problem is that Bangladesh has a population far beyond its economic powers. They might want to consider a one child policy like China. They might also focus on industrialization.
Any way you cut it, Bangladesh is a disaster zone. And the only people who can solver their problems are them. Imposing a deindustrialization policy on the US so that maybe Bangladesh can hang on at the Malthusian edge for a few mores years is just plain crazy.

Andi Cockroft
Reply to  Simon
February 24, 2018 9:48 pm

Simplistic nonsense?
Well of course it is. As is the postulation that anyone can project 1.2 metres sea-level rise in 300 years. My point of “SO WHAT” is that society (of whatever nature) has and will continue to adapt – it must adapt.
You should really be asking the question – “What if the Doomsayers are wrong?”. What will happen if a mini-ice-age suddenly hits and we have decommissioned all our abundant sources of energy in favour of as yet flaky “renewables”. Ask South Australians about unreliable energy!
Andi

anntchristie
Reply to  Simon
February 25, 2018 4:42 am

You are speaking to little more than monkeys, my friend., not even great apes, like the rest of humanity, no sign of intellect here… They cannot raise their minuscule brains to the task of studying science, and so they cannot and will not accept it.. far rather believe in myths, legends, religious cults and fantasy.
(Your snotty attitude and insults are quickly wearing out your welcome here, advise you stop it, debate the topic instead) MOD

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
February 25, 2018 7:26 am

The troll assumes that anyone who disagrees with her, just doesn’t understand the science.
All the while demonstrating that her understanding of science doesn’t get above kindergarten level.

Auto
Reply to  Simon
February 25, 2018 12:33 pm

anntchristie February 25, 2018 at 4:42 am
….
MOD – Plus lots. Thanks.
Trolls, now, seem to be more mono-maniacal than most of the Jehovah’s Witnesses I have debated with.
Auto

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
February 26, 2018 8:53 am

I’ve never met a Jehovah’s Witness who wanted to kill those who didn’t believe as they did.
They undoubtedly concerned about what will happen to your soul after you die, but they have no desire to have you find out for yourself any sooner.
On the other hand, I’ve heard of people who have wanted to kill the JW’s, just to get them to go away.

MarkW
Reply to  EternalOptimist
February 24, 2018 7:15 pm

They have almost 300 years to adapt. That’s assuming the worst case scenarios for once, play out.
Assuming 30 years per generation, that’s 10 generations to figure out a solution using technology we can’t even imagine and paid for by a much wealthier society. Unless we keep trying to power the planet using unreliable power, in which case all bets are off.

February 24, 2018 4:13 pm

I honestly have to admit my ignorance: I really don’t get “global sea level rise”. How can some spots seemingly in the middle of an ocean seem to rise, while many other spots around it do not show rising?
What really is being measured? Do most people know what they are really worried about?

Bart Tali
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
February 24, 2018 4:38 pm

This youtube video will explain everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q65O3qA0-n4

Reply to  Bart Tali
February 25, 2018 11:33 am

Thanks for confirming my ignorance even further, Bart T. (^_^)
“Sea level” seems like a pliable concept, subject to creative manipulation.

goldminor
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
February 24, 2018 6:20 pm

Maybe high spots in the ocean are caused in the main by atmospheric conditions allowing extra absorption of solar energy into an area of the ocean.

Retired Kit P
February 24, 2018 4:19 pm

What is the root cause of 20k deaths in Japan in 2011?
We spend a lot of time where there is a tsunami evacuation route, so I would like to know. However, I have a theory.
Government puts up signs telling us we are safe. We stop to watch the wave rather than be skeptical and keep running.
While I not too worried about slow changes it is hard to adapt to sudden change like flash floods and explosions.

goldminor
Reply to  Retired Kit P
February 24, 2018 6:26 pm

The root cause of those 20k deaths is that man seldom remembers the past. There are markers in the hills behind the coast line which mark the height of past tsunamis. Some of the markers date back 6 centuries. Forewarned is twice warned.

Retired Kit P
Reply to  goldminor
February 25, 2018 10:34 am

You would be wrong and dead. The 2011 event was a thousand year event so basing it on a 600 year event would still fail.
There is no rule of nature that says that something can only happen if it has happened before.
The point is that increasing your margin of safety when practical could save your life if the model is wrong.
I am also big on questioning authority. There is 15 miles of road that is lower than where we park our motorhome. I it likely that events that would trigger a major tsunami would make the only road impassable for evacuation.
Assuming the road is passable after a M8.0 (or greater) earthquake
on the Cascadia subduction zone, there is 30 minutes to get to safety.
Knowing the risk and accepting it, is assumed risk.

goldminor
Reply to  Retired Kit P
February 25, 2018 2:48 pm

My point was that most people waited until it was too late to react. Instead of reacting immediately to the potential of a dangerous tsunami as there was the history of tsunamis following large quakes. Then again, many people react poorly in crisis situations.

Bob Burban
February 24, 2018 4:57 pm

The oceans cover some 70% of the Earth’s surface and have an average depth of roughly 4 km. Where did this water come from and when did it start arriving? Has if finished this ‘arrival process’ or is this process still ongoing?

paqyfelyc
Reply to  Bob Burban
February 25, 2018 10:12 am

wikipedia Meteoroid : “An estimated 15,000 tonnes of meteoroids, micrometeoroids and different forms of space dust enter Earth’s atmosphere each year”
Still ongoing, but insignificantly so

Walter Sobchak
February 24, 2018 7:56 pm

The entire rising seas meme is ridiculous. If the seas rise, people who live near the rising seas will either move or they will build sea walls and other engineering works to protect their investments. London, New York, and Miami will build sea walls because they are rich and have enormous investments to protect. Resorts on the Carolina coast will move inland because the houses will be blown away and the beach will be eroded by hurricanes. I dealt with the absurdist corner case of Bangladesh above. Whatever happens, it not a problem that is worth worrying about this far in advance.

February 24, 2018 8:35 pm

I have the same reaction to high carbon taxes
So what.

F. Leghorn
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 25, 2018 3:38 am

so pay up

Thomas Homer
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 25, 2018 3:53 am

What is the source of the Carbon in Carbon Based Life Forms?

MarkW
Reply to  Thomas Homer
February 25, 2018 7:29 am

Socialists believe that government is able to spend money better than individuals can. So by taking money away from individuals and giving it to government, the results are always better.
In those instances where it didn’t turn out better, that’s because the capitalists in government interfered with the socialists plans. The solution is of course to make sure that only socialists are permitted to have anything to do with decision making.

Reply to  Thomas Homer
February 25, 2018 11:37 am

What was the dumb blond’s solution to alternative energy? — Since humans are carbon based, and there are so many humans, burn humans as fuel.

John Pickens
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 25, 2018 4:50 am

By impoverishing society, lowering living standards, and reducing available inexpensive energy sources, you reduce the capacity to deal with changes in climate and sea level. So the tax on carbon will have exactly the opposite of it’s intended purpose.

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 25, 2018 7:27 am

As always, the socialists have no problem raising other people’s taxes.

Patrick MJD
February 24, 2018 9:11 pm

Good story Andi. Hadn’t realised you mirated only a 5 or 6 years before I did. Shame about your current PM.

February 24, 2018 10:45 pm

A tsunami is a slow, low, relentless surge of water that comes sometimes many miles inland. Only 7% of NZ is above the waves. That’s why it will never get a tsunami. An earthquake registering >7.5mag is needed, and Kaikoura recently had a 7.8mag shake and no sign of tsunami. The shallow seas surrounding NZ prevent a large amount of water from becoming available to constantly feed it.
A kingtide is not a tsunami, the super kingtide happens about twice a year. That’s what causes a flood, because river water banks up and cannot get away. The geologists have decided, in retrospect, that the past great floods of NZ have been tsunamis. But from them there been zero loss of life, after 2 million recorded earthquakes over 200 years of settlement.
But maintaining a tsunami scare enables more taxation, increased insurance premiums and higher rates going to councils. In short, the fear of one is a financial godsend. Tsunami is a Japanese word that was unheard of when I was growing up in NZ, until 2004 and the Asian event. Now, every earthquake is a potential tsunami.
The safest place in a violent earthquake is not in the hills, which may open up, but on the beach where it is safe for children to run around.

D B H
Reply to  kenring657210303
February 25, 2018 1:14 am

You are kidding me (us) surely???
An earthquake will get you – if it wants – no matter where you are – mountain or shore.
A tsunami, likewise, will get you, if its located in the appropriate ‘wrong place’, and the Kaikoura quake occurred in a location not suitable to create the tsunami conditions, but DID lift areas of the sea floor some 2m vertically – and that, if located further off shore, would likely have resulted in a tsunami – of some degree or another.
Conflating luck, and evidence or lack there of, doesn’t make NZ safe from future events
We, as you know well Ken, have had many deadly earthquakes in both European and Maori historical time frames.
And how the hell can you say there was no loss of life from all those historic tsunamis – just asking is all???
Anyway Ken, I’d prefer you were correct, but alas, maybe we won’t be so lucky when the big one does happen.
The ChCh quake lasted 45 seconds and did the damage it did – but the main alpine fault is expected to last for 7 to 8 minutes – with the corresponding outcome (destruction) being that much greater.
sigh!!!
Or is it that I am just tired, and needed to vent some spleen before going to bed???

D B H
Reply to  D B H
February 25, 2018 1:21 am

Oh – and while I am in agreement with Andi, the one burning issue for why it does matter is that living in the real world means that planning policy based upon some misplaced ideology of CAGW means that approx 160,000 houses throughout NZ, will see real world difficulties with insuring their homes.
Many, if they can even get insurance (and thats becoming increasingly problematic) will/may be faced with a $10,000 excess clause before the insurance companies will write a policy, in those ‘affected’ areas.
Local authorities are now being required to take into consideration the potential future impacts upon the region going out 100 years.
Hell, going out 270 years to the year 2300, I’d just hate to think what onerous policy impacts would be dreamed up, if that ever happened.

tadchem
February 25, 2018 12:35 am

300 years far exceeds the expected lifetime of even modern construction. As moderns buildings are individually demolished they will be replaced with structures built to future standards with a mush larger database of past performances and a far longer list of expectations. There is a ‘natural selection’ that will drive the evolution of architecture to adapt to REAL changes – one building at a time.

anntchristie
February 25, 2018 4:24 am

There is a preamble that I forgot to include in my post explaining the Ecotoxicology of Sea Level Rise: the Time-Lag factor.
Let me explain it with another simile, and you can actually do this at home:
please a large sponge (or a number of sponges, at the bottom of a tub then start trickling water into the tub.
You will find that only a small amount of water sloshes around the tub, as the sponges absorb the rest.. UNTIL THEY ARE SATURATED.
Then, suddenly the waer will begin to rise as fas as it pours in.
This models the TIME-LAG between SLR and its manifestation.
Consider the make-up of the Earth’s crust. As I explain in my other post, “land” and “rock” are not solid, monolithic and impermeable, on the contrary, they represent a broad continuum of permeability.
They are also full of natural voids, like some of the huge caverns that make up, that will take a very long time to fill-up, once seawater levels reaches those hitherto inaccessible to the sea.
So, you see, just because we haven’t SEEN the sea levels rise, it doesn’t mean the volume of sea water is not increasing, only that the ‘absorption potential’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave

F. Leghorn
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 4:52 am

So, without any available evidence you are thoroughly convinced the ocean is rising. Got it.

F. Leghorn
Reply to  F. Leghorn
February 25, 2018 4:55 am

Catastrophically that is.
(Her unnaproved 6:17 am reply was an ugly personal attack on you) MOD

anntchristie
Reply to  F. Leghorn
February 25, 2018 6:17 am

SNIP
(Your comment is filled with personal attacks, it is no longer published. If you don’t learn to debate without the insults, you will be removed from commenting, people are quickly getting unhappy with your ugly replies) MOD

F. Leghorn
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 6:58 am

And yet my spelling and grammar (not to mention my civility) are light-years beyond yours. Strange.

MarkW
Reply to  F. Leghorn
February 25, 2018 7:36 am

The models say it must be rising, so it is. It’s up to the faithful to invent ever more fanciful reasons to explain away the fact that the real world isn’t behaving as the models say they should.
Notice how the troll gets offended that we dare to disagree with her sacred pronouncements.
Notice also the assumption that because she believes correctly, she is superior to those who don’t. This also explains why she has no trouble imagining those of us lesser mortals being killed for the sins of not worshiping correctly.

Andi Cockroft
Reply to  F. Leghorn
February 26, 2018 3:57 pm

anntchristie
You suggest a simile of sponges in a bath. So you propose some form of capillary action will cause waters to suddenly rise?
Shame about the physics behind capillary action. Any water that is already rising by capillary action will be at its maximum extent (i.e. height) already. So adding 1.2 metres of additional available water to the oceans can only add an additional 1.2 metres on top of current capillary rise.
i.e. even if 1.2 metres sea-level rise were to take place, your capillary rise would be likewise constrained to 1.2 metres.
I have to wonder as to whether your “Ecotoxology” studies actually included any real science. If not, I have to wonder how you can judge whether CAGW and rising sea-levels is a true or pseudo-science?
Andi

MarkW
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 7:33 am

ann is quite clearly someone who has been educated way, way, beyond her intelligence.
1) The number of caves is very small compared to the surface of the earth, and most of these are nowhere close to the ocean.
2) The amount of water that sand and soil can hold is limited, near the oceans pretty much already saturated, and only takes a few minutes to fill.
3) SLR is the manifestation. What other follow on affects is your fevered mind coming up with?

paqyfelyc
Reply to  anntchristie
February 25, 2018 10:30 am

“Let me explain it with another simile, and you can actually do this at home”
Well, we are grown-up adult, you know. we can stand a REAL explanation, complete with figures, if you had any. But you don’t. You are the child here. You live in a fantasy land of sponge, flat, immutable, unmoving Earth, land and sea, as just another creationist
Sea level as experienced up and down forever, as every coastal city perfectly know. Some even died out, never because of sea rise, always because land rise killed their main asset: the harbor.
Whatever happens, you’ll have to adapt. You’ll have to LIVE. You better start now, instead of sticking to your zombie world of “Ecotoxicology” (which obviously forgot the very first teaching of toxicology “Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist”)

maurice
February 25, 2018 5:01 am

For millions of years there are billions of km³ of water (from rains, rivers & rivers) that have poured into the seas & oceans … WITHOUT WHERE THEY DO NOT UP !!! That’s it! Quite simply because water continuously seeps into the ocean and sea floors to the magma where this poisonous soup (the fish shit in the sea!) Is heated / boiled and goes up (as in a coffee maker) to the sources (hot or cold depending on the altitude) and to the water tables that it fills WITHOUT SALT or chemicals !!!! That’s it!

john
February 25, 2018 5:31 am

Has anyone considered/studied how much water gets displaced by undersea volcanic/techtonic activity?
It seems that the creation of new mountains/trenches do displace a lot of water, and the ocean depths are woefully unexplored…
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/submarine-volcanoes-convergent-plate-boundaries
That and dry land subsidence etc could makt it appear in places that sea level rises/drops.

2hotel9
February 25, 2018 8:08 am

Since the coming LIA may well drop sea levels by 1 and 1/2 meters this sounds about right, by 2300 we should be back to current levels. The problem will be all the idiots rushing to the new sea shores and building crap, which will be flooded by the return to “normal” sea level, and they will screech&wail and gnash their teeth about how globall warmining is destroying the Earth. Your standard rinse&repeat of human stupidity.

DNA
February 25, 2018 9:04 am

Ugh! I just put another 2.5 tons of class 2 stone (by hand) on our seawall last weekend (repair job). Now I gotta get even more before 2300?

2hotel9
Reply to  DNA
February 26, 2018 4:36 pm

Its cool! I think you got a bit-O-time!

Reply to  DNA
February 27, 2018 4:34 am

At least you have lots of time to wait for a sale on stone…

Jack
February 25, 2018 10:00 am

We know, thanks to many tide gauge throughout the world that the sea level is rising at an average rate of 1,7 mm/year since the end of the Little Ice Age by mid 19th century. It doesn’t matter if the satellites are detecting twice this rate in the middle of the Atlantic or the Pacific oceans since the people who should worry about the rise are living near the shores, not on 4000 meters high steel towers anchored on the sea floor in the middle of the oceans.
1,7mm per year means an average rise of 17 cm by the end of the 21st century. We have no data showing that this rate is accelerating nor that Greenland is dramatically thawing while the antarctic inlandsis looks to get a net increase in ice volume. Therefore the coastal populations can keep sleeping quietly.

Charles
February 25, 2018 10:02 am

It takes only 1 super volcano to erupt and throw the whole world into an ice age, freezing water into ice and dramaticly lowering ocean levels

ccscientist
February 25, 2018 11:46 am

I saw an alarmist article who noted that if the Antarctic melted in 3000 years then sea level would rise X meters (a big scary number). 3000 years. We should be so lucky to still be around.

MarkW
Reply to  ccscientist
February 25, 2018 12:52 pm

Compare the level of technology available 3000 years ago.
Note that the rate of technological advancement is continuing to accelerate.
Now, try to imagine what kind of technologies will be available to those who are living 3000 years from now.

Gamecock
February 25, 2018 6:34 pm

I see your 1.2 Metres, and raise you 3 meters. 4.2 meter sea level rise in 2300.
I learned decades ago, if you are going to make up a number, make up a big one.
And yet . . . my prediction is of the exact same value as theirs.

Trevor
February 26, 2018 1:16 pm

Similar to what I’ve said all along. And not just about sea levels. Even if the worst happens, it’s going to take a hundred years. Look at how far mankind has advanced in the LAST hundred years. It is preposterous to think out technology will stagnate over the entirety of the next hundred years (unless, of course, we deprive ourselves of the benefits of fossil fuels). It is difficult for me to imagine a global-warming consequence that we cannot overcome given a hundred years to prepare for it.

February 28, 2018 1:58 pm

The issue to me with all this is that:
No matter what nature’s response is and no matter what we do there will be significant rise, i.e. 1-2 feet. People will have to raise houses, find places to put in barriers and maybe even move. If we do everything and global warming were to stop today seas would still rise as they have been for hundreds of years.
This is the same as other problems claimed by global warming. We continue to work on our food supply, building standards improve. Our warning systems and everything we do to respond to disasters gets better and better NOT because of Global warming because that is what people do and what we will do naturally anyway.
We are talking 200 years. Man has been sentient for about 100 years in my estimation. This means we have been able to respond technologically and to have history and learn from history for about 120 years or so. 200 years is an incredibly long time. Most buildings aren’t 100 years old. Most buildings are torn down or major retrofit every 40-80 years. The idea that global warming is the only thing affecting our infrastructure is ridiculous.
This is the most ridiculous overrated worry ever created and we still don’t know if anything will transpire. After 70 years of pouring massively into the atmosphere CO2 there are no documented negative impacts. There has been no increase in storms, diseases. Islands aren’t sinking. They are rising. The arctic is not melting even though it makes no difference because it is sea ice not land ice. The Antarctic is growing. No creatures have died. A lot of allegations, very little things one can point to and even suggest might be related to warming. There is lots of doubt about the amount of warming we will get and the consequences of the warming are even more suspect.
The fact is we will deal with all these issues and will have to even if we spent trillions and erased any further warming. Seas will still rise. Storms will still happen and people will have to adjust. Global warming makes no difference.

2hotel9
Reply to  logiclogiclogic
February 28, 2018 5:01 pm

Seriously? You really believe this crap? And you seriously believe people can’t figure out how to deal with,,,well,,,anything? That is just sad, and predictable. Let me hip you to the deal, Hillary is NEVER going to be President of the United States. EVER. Get over it.