Hurricane Expert Maue: '#Irma may bomb to Cat 5' again

Yikes. Half of Florida is covered by clouds from Irma already.

As predicted, Irma is intensifying in the warm waters north of Cuba. Dr. Maue has been very accurate though both Harvey and Irma (not to mention many others), but in this case I hope his opinion is dead-wrong.

https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/906593393840721923

In other news:

Some comparison, size matters:

UPDATE:

https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/906713628895842306

The climate data they don't want you to find — free, to your inbox.
Join readers who get 5–8 new articles daily — no algorithms, no shadow bans.
0 0 votes
Article Rating
142 Comments
Greg
September 10, 2017 1:39 am

Central eye looking rather ragged in IR and SW images just now.
http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?parms=meso1-07-24-1-100
wind speed at Key West hovering around 35 mph for now.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.php?station=kywf1&meas=wspd&uom=E&time_diff=-4&time_label=EDT

Greg
Reply to  Greg
September 10, 2017 2:57 am

Vaca key looking about the same around 40 knots. (45 mph)
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.php?station=vcaf1&meas=wspd&uom=E&time_diff=-4&time_label=EDT
Don’t see this getting any stronger now it’s getting into the very shallow waters around the keys and approaching land. I think cat 5 was a bad dream.

toorightmate
September 10, 2017 2:51 am

The news bulletins are catastrophically unprecedented.

Greg
Reply to  toorightmate
September 10, 2017 2:58 am

more like unprecedentedly catastrophic. 😉

Greg
September 10, 2017 3:01 am

Fastest winds currently on east coast at Fowey Rock,off Miami : 56 kt

Greg
Reply to  Greg
September 10, 2017 3:23 am

Central eye currently very defocused; ground truth 10m wind speeds in Keys and Miami are NOT EVEN hurricane force at this time.
Claims of the power of this storm seem to overblown. No pun.

RAH
September 10, 2017 3:03 am

Last night watching the Weather Channel reporting on Ivan as I was dozing off the young man, don’t know his name, reporting from Key West, said that several people down there had decided to ride out Irma on their boats!
Darwin awards all around!

Greg
Reply to  RAH
September 10, 2017 3:27 am

As long as you’re not near land that is probably a lot safer than being on land unless you’re in a cat5 building. No danger from storm swell at sea and much less broken glass and bits of 4×2 flying around !

RAH
Reply to  Greg
September 10, 2017 4:48 am

I would agree with that assessment if the vessel were a ship of decent size. But a Boat?
I will once again transcribe here the experience of the skipper and crew of the WW II US submarine Tang when caught on the surface in a Typhoon south of Ryukyus Islands in October 1944. Keep that Tang was a 311 foot long vessel displacing over 2,000 tons surfaced displacement when loaded for a war patrol. And that submarines have a thick pressure hull and ride low in the water with a very low profile when on the surface making them relatively stable in rough seas compared to a DD or DE of comparable size and tonnage. Thus when buttoned up a submarine is much harder to broach or capsize than a conventional vessel of the same tonnage.
Transcription with some snips noted for brevity from: Clear The Bridge” written by the subs commander Richard O’Kane (recipient of the MOH).
“The immediate pressure on my ears told me that securing had already been in progress. That’s my exec, I thought. Not so pleasant was the last barometer reading before the boat was sealed, 27,8 inches; it left no doubt about the severe nature of the storm……………….
Frank and I headed aft, hanging on as we could, but when we reached the control room Tang took a violent roll to starboard. I landed on the after end of the high-pressure manifold, with my face about a foot from the bubble inclinometer on the forward end of the low-pressure blows. It read 70 degrees, and there she hung, obviously broached by the seas…………………..we eased back to 60 degrees for a couple of rollers and then slowly righted………………..
When submerged, looking through the scope gives the viewer the impression that his eye is just above the surface of the sea, at the position of the lens. When the boat is on the surface, it’s like looking down from a 55-foot tower. I was looking up at a single monstrous wave, so bit it had normal waves on its crest, which were blowing out into spume as it rolled in. Reflexes made me duck momentarily just before it hit, and then green water, solid green sea, went over the top of everything, burying Tang scope and all. Amazingly, the scope was still there when the wave rolled past………..
Our present position was untenable, for we were being pushed ahead in addition to our own turns, and our total speed likely equaled the advance of the storm. We could thus remain in the dangerous semicircle for days, even into the Ryukyus to the immediate north……
We had long since foregone the option of diving, for our ballast tanks were divided port and starboard and had individual floods and vents. A short-lived loss of stability accompanied any dive, and with rolls such as we were experiencing the down tanks would flood first and could capsize the boat……………………There was but one option; we had to turn in front of the seas that had just knocked us down………..
[Tang successfully made the turn but was nearly knocked over doing so. Now we pick up after making the turn as the ship bucked up and down heading into the seas.]
……Of more importance was Larson’s report of no injuries; it seemed impossible, but a submarine lies so deep in the sea that it does not have the dangerous whip of a surface ship…………..
For five taught hours they kept Tang on course, coached by Frank, me, and the OODs on the scope for the seas determined our heading. Quite suddenly the wicked seas changed to mountainous swells under torrential rains. The winds moderated, became confused. Were we in the eye of the typhoon…….? For a quick check we tried cracking the hatch to obtain a new barometric reading, it wouldn’t budge, held tight by increased atmospheric pressure. High pressure air was bled into the boat, a full half-inch, to free the hatch; the barometer read 28.4.
[They were out of the Tyhoon. Later during the discussion between the officers]
I recalled an experience at sea with a hurricane packing 100-knot winds and spoke conservatively when I estimated that the winds of they typhoon had half again the speed. In the height of the seas there was no comparison. We were not just guessing, for in the Quartermasters Notebook were recorded various periods during which the scope had been completely buried, the longest being 14 seconds. Sketching the wave crests in their most modest form, and arriving at their speed from the recorded frequency, Tang’s junior officers calculated that on occasions a minimum of 40′ had rolled above the lens of our scope. I would not dispute their figure nor would Frank, we had seen the waves, and 95 feet from crest to trough seemed conservative.”
Nope, you can stay on some little boat Gregg. Me, I’m heading for the highest ground around.

arthur4563
September 10, 2017 3:47 am

As of 6:15 AM Irma just barely a Cat 4 – 130 MPH (129 is a Cat3) it is a very weak Cat 4, and estimate is for “perhaps slight increase in winds before Florida landfall” From this vantage point a strong Cat 4 or weak Cat 5 seems impossible. Hurricane center has it as a Major hurricane (over 110MPH) halfway up Florida, then a hurricane (over 75MPH) until just crossing into Georgia, where it becomes a Tropical storm (over 39MPH) .
Miami impact seems relatively slight : only wind gusts achieve hurricane force, and just barely – 75MPH – in fact estimate shows no hurricane force winds on the east coast – looks like for the entire east coast of Florida, Irma will just be a tropical storm.
The west coast of Florida will be most affected : Storm surges 5 to 10 feet all along the west coast, but Naples perhaps 15 feet. Don’t see how a body of water as large as Tampa Bay and its rather small entrance can be affected very much by a surge this small. Disney World hotels remain open, park closed. Tampa, Sarasota, Naples, Ft Myers face the biggest impacts – all with estimates of 8 to 12 inches of rain , gusts over 100MPH but no avg wind estimates provided. Rainfall should be no problem – I lived on the west coast for years and saw rainfall totals from storms (not hurricanes) much, much larger than this.

arthur4563
September 10, 2017 3:58 am

I’ve come to the conclusion that these Simpson scale hurricane categories are misleading and useless. Use MPH and get an accurate wind force measure. Cat 4, for example, covers a very large territory – 130 to 156MPH, and thus tells you almost nothing, even if you know the definition of Cat 4 (which few do).

David A
Reply to  arthur4563
September 10, 2017 4:40 am

The scale is fine, as certain common damage is likely to occur at each category. CAT 5 is pretty much most every wood house flattened, trees snapped. ( I have yet to see true CAT 5 damage from Irma except from storm surge and spin off tornadoes)
The problem is the primary criteria for labeling hurricanes ( ground speed readings at 10 meter height, one minute sustained) is being ignored, when in the past it was the ONLY method along with air pressure.
Harvey was a CAT 2 from ground based readings with a singular peak gust of 132 mph. Previous CAT 4 in Texas had peak gusts of 172 and three over 150. Harvey was damaging because Harvey hovered over Houston, a subsiding city built on a swamp.
The Labor Day hurricane had 175 mph sustained winds and a long gust at an airforce station of 200 mph, then the instrument broke. Irma is a bxxxx, but is not remotely as strong as the Labor Day hurricane. Storm Surge damage and isolated tornado damage will be very bad however.

David A
Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 4:42 am

The Labor Day hurricane had 175 mph sustained winds and a long gust at an airforce station of 200 mph, then the instrument broke. ( ground based measurements)

David A
Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 5:10 am

Make that 185 sustained winds.

Greg
September 10, 2017 4:17 am

landfall very soon between Big Pine Key and Key West : KYWF1 being nearest reporting station. Air press. below 965 mbar , not a record breaker !
Wind speeds now dropping as enters the eye. 10m wind speed did not quite make it into “hurricane” levels of 64 kt
Not sure what altitude they are measuring 129 mph .

David A
Reply to  Greg
September 10, 2017 4:59 am

Latest forecast from NOAA for Marathon in the Keys. ( Looks to be about 15 miles from the eye wall on the strong , eastern side of Irma…
…HURRICANE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT …
…STORM SURGE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT …
* LOCATIONS AFFECTED
– Marathon
– Long Key
* WIND
– LATEST LOCAL FORECAST: Equivalent Cat 1 Hurricane force wind
– Peak Wind Forecast: 70-90 mph with gusts to 110 mph
– Window for Tropical Storm force winds: until early Monday
morning
– Window for Hurricane force winds: until this afternoon.”””””
The earlier was calling for CAT 3.

Greg
Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 6:18 am

Thanks David, where did you get that warning with Cat 1 All I can find is the earlier ones with 130 mph winds!
Where is the official landfall windspeeds?

Greg
September 10, 2017 4:43 am

Guardian are already reporting this as “the most catastrophic storm Florida has ever seen” before even gets there !

David A
Reply to  Greg
September 10, 2017 5:09 am

Amazing hype.
Labor day storm reality
Formed August 29, 1935
Dissipated September 10, 1935
(Extratropical after September 6)
Highest winds 1-minute sustained: 185 mph (300 km/h)
Lowest pressure 892 mbar (hPa); 26.34 inHg
(Lowest recorded in continental United States)
Fatalities 423 total
Areas affected
The Bahamas Florida Keys, Southwest and North Florida (Big Bend)

David A
Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 5:11 am

Labor Day storm had 20 foot of surge in the Keys.

Greg
Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 5:13 am

water level at Key West so far seems to be about 1 foot above normal tidal predictions. This is a joke.

September 10, 2017 4:57 am

It is getting rough on the Florida’s east coast web cam view

Greg
Reply to  vukcevic
September 10, 2017 5:12 am

yes, it’s rough. They are getting hit by a tropical storm. But this is not even making cat 1 at landfall so far.

Reply to  vukcevic
September 10, 2017 5:26 am

Hi Vuk, yes nice webcam view.
But in Cornwall (England) we wouldn’t call that rough. Looks like about 40mph to me. Is anyone here an expert on estimating wind speed from the bend in palm trees?
Of course, that is the East coast – West will be worse.
Rich.

Greg
Reply to  See - owe to Rich
September 10, 2017 6:00 am

There is a lot of wind sheer and NE side of the storm and the eye is looking very unstable and poorly defined now. Daylight arriving allows to get nice detailed visual sequence of the clouds now.
http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop.asp?data_folder=goes-16/mesoscale_01_band_02_sector_05&width=1000&height=1000&number_of_images_to_display=40&loop_speed_ms=80
It is going to struggle to be cat 1 by the time it makes it to the main land.
Water levels about 2.5 ft above normal predicted tides in Key West.
This is not going to be the major event it was billed to be, thankfully.

Reply to  See - owe to Rich
September 10, 2017 6:06 am

Wind Speed : 21 kts
Wind Gust: 41kts
Atmospheric Pressure: 29.47 in

Greg
Reply to  See - owe to Rich
September 10, 2017 6:25 am

yes, this has passed through Key West now, max 10m wind was 58kt and max depression 956.
By the time it hits the mainland it will be even weaker. With a storm surge of about 2.5 ft this is basically a non emergency storm.

Reply to  vukcevic
September 10, 2017 7:04 am

Windjammer webcam of the beach in Lauderdaleby the Sea is deceptive. About 400 yards offshore is a major coral reef stretching from north Miami almost to Palme Beach. It about the fishing pier length again further out, and the first of three reef bands is only about 5 meters deep. I am in north Fort Lauderdale about a mile south of Windjammer, directly on the beach. Waves breaking over the reef are about 15 feet, some higher. Spectacular sight when the rain lets up enough to see it. The waves do not have enough fetch to reform before they reach the beach after crashing on the reef. So the shore sees 4-6 feet. We presently have wind ~70 with measured gusts over 85.

Reply to  ristvan
September 10, 2017 7:17 am

Hi Rud
There was a TV crew in apartment opposite, they had a spot light on the palm three during the later part of the night and early this morning (there are two aerials stuck to the palm’s top) .
I also found a weather station a bit further south.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=pvgf1&unit=E&tz=GMT
data is up to an hour late, hope it is correct, so not too concerned at the moment,

David A
Reply to  ristvan
September 10, 2017 8:05 am

Rud, please share the station giving those readings.

September 10, 2017 6:20 am

Hi Rich
wind speed is the post above,
“Of course, that is the East coast – West will be worse.”
My brother is just 3-4 miles inland from the webcam location and decided to sit it out. Building is recent (built for at least direct Cat3), as long as his apartment’s windows don’t explode they will be ok, I hope.

David A
Reply to  vukcevic
September 10, 2017 8:08 am

…please show the station confirming this and explain bws post below with stations very near the eye.

Reply to  David A
September 10, 2017 9:13 am

one in the link just above
(vukcevic September 10, 2017 at 7:17 am)

RAH
September 10, 2017 6:32 am

looks to me like it will be a weak CAT 3 by the time it reaches the Florida mainland. That cooler dryer air to the west that steered it north is kicking it’s ass. The eyewall has lost integrity. And with more and more of the bands going over Florida to the east and the feature to the west impinging on the western bands it sure seems pretty certain now that Joe Bastardi and Dr. Maue were correct about the track but are not even going to close on intensity. Such is the way it goes forecasting these storms.

Reply to  RAH
September 10, 2017 7:05 am

RAH, it still has hours to strengthen after the Keys before reaching Naples.

RAH
Reply to  ristvan
September 10, 2017 7:19 am

But that trough to the west, the very same one that steered it to the north from Cuba, is stronger than anticipated. and causing considerable sheer. It is really having an impact on it in the WNW. It still looks to me like it may even cause Irma to go a bit further east than forecast making landfall a bit earlier and further south down by Naples. This truck driver, with his limited knowledge, that never doubted the storm would turn north and Impact Florida when it was coming over Cuba, just doesn’t think there is a chance in hell of it becoming a CAT V and highly doubt that it will even maintain CAT 4 strength. What the eye does will be a prime indicator on radar of what is happening and the eye right now has been deteriorating pretty quickly. But that’s just my opinion.

September 10, 2017 7:05 am

A Florida sheriff is warning citizens not to shoot guns at Hurricane Irma as the monster storm approaches Florida.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/349968-florida-sheriff-warns-citizens-dont-shoot-at-hurricane-irma
No surprise there.

ren
September 10, 2017 7:13 am

High solar activity (geomagnetic storm) caused an increase in jet velocity in the north. As a result, there was a cutoff of the jet stream in the eastern US. This loop blocks the hurricane over Florida.

babazaroni
September 10, 2017 7:14 am

It’s official. Category 4 landfall. Two in one season.

Reply to  babazaroni
September 10, 2017 8:41 am

Really? As far as I can see, the eye hasn’t touched land yet. And where has a Cat 4 135mph sustained wind been recorded?
Rich.

EW3
September 10, 2017 7:31 am

Judging from the satellite images, looks like Key West is having a sunny morning.
Be willing to bet that there are a lot of folks enjoying a breakfast beer!

babazaroni
Reply to  EW3
September 10, 2017 8:12 am
bw
September 10, 2017 7:36 am

Irma landfall between Key West and Vaca key. Both NDBC stations less than 60 knots sustained winds.
Wind speed measured by surface anemometers nearest the eyewall are showing less than hurricane threshold for the Saffir-Simpson scale which is 64 knots.
Looking at radar the heaviest band in the storm is to the east at Fowey Rock NDBC station FWYF1 that has anemometer height of 44 meters above sea level. The 7am recording shows maximum sustained winds of 63 knots. Time plots at any of the NDBC stations show all surface winds below hurricane.
Vaca key station nearest the east side of the eyewall shows 46 knots measured by anemometer 9.6 meters above sea level.
No surprise that the NHC and the hysterical media are claiming Category 4 at the same time.
Real time videos of reporters standing around show palm trees in winds consistent with the NDBC stations which are tropical storm force winds.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=FWYF1

Reply to  bw
September 10, 2017 8:46 am

Watched a bit of CNN coverage this morning. They reported “all of the Keys underwater” but showed footage from Key Largo of a “flooded” street with ankle-deep water at most.
Footage of the “massive destruction” in Cuba at this link, from another media outlet.
http://globalnews.ca/news/3731886/hurricane-irma-cuba-damage/?utm_source=Homegnca-bc&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

eyesonu
September 10, 2017 7:43 am

“Irma’s eye has just crossed Cudjoe key in Florida. 106 mph max wind gust.” t
“A 91 mph gust was recorded at 7:55 a.m. at the NWS Office in Key West.”
“According to the National Hurricane Center, the center of Irma crossed Cudjoe Key just east of Key West around 9:10 a.m. EDT, with maximum SUSTAINED winds at the time estimated at 130 mph and a central pressure of 929 millibars.”
https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/hurricane-irma-bahamas-florida-georgia-carolinas-forecast
===========
Is it even a catagory 1?
NHC is BS as has been for several years.

EW3
Reply to  eyesonu
September 10, 2017 7:49 am

Key word is estimated.
The talking heads on TV and NOAA are just plain embarrassing themselves.

eyesonu
Reply to  eyesonu
September 10, 2017 7:56 am

Let me see if I can understand. The National Hurricane Center estimated the SUSTAINED winds at 130 mph and yet max measured gusts were 106 mph. Yea … I get it!
Drain the swamp but flush the NHC!

deebodk
Reply to  eyesonu
September 10, 2017 9:44 am

The 106 gust was measured on nearby Big Pine Key just to the east, not on Cudjoe Key. Regardless, Big Pine was still within the eye. 130 sustained? What a joke.

September 10, 2017 8:56 am

If people want to keep an eye on winds speeds recorded by buoys, use the link http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/radial_search.php?lat1=25.0n&lon1=80.0w&uom=E&dist=150&ot=A&time=8 .
Fowey Rock, FWYF1, see http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=FWYF1 , has been recording the highest speeds for the last few hours, between 60 and 70 knots, i.e. Category 1 Saffir-Simpson. Interestingly Fowey Rock is on the Miami side. Hurricanes going north typically have the highest winds on the east side, so perhaps, emphasize perhaps, Naples isn’t in too much danger as the eye approaches it. There could be higher winds on land of course just to the east of the eye.
Does anyone have a link to the nearest NWS station to Naples?
Rich.

September 10, 2017 8:58 am

Sorry, I just saw bw’s posting https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/09/09/hurricane-expert-maue-irma-may-bomb-to-cat-5-again/comment-page-1/#comment-2606353 . There he also talks about Fowey Rock, and the fact that the anemometer height is 44m, well above the official 10m level.
Rich.

September 10, 2017 9:13 am

Homestead Air Base station KHST, south of Miami and not too far from the sea, stopped reporting winds after 11am having had a gust of 62mph out of a sustained wind of 28mph.
Enquiring minds want to know: did a gust take it out or is the NWS trying to starve its customers, you the people, of accurate information?
Rich.

RAH
September 10, 2017 9:14 am

Look at this water vapor loop. Watch the dryer cooler sheer to the west in just eat up the western outer band of Irma. And now it’s wrapping around to the south West quadrant eating at the convective power of this storm. This trough is what steered Irma north form Cuba. Now it’s eating this hurricane alive.
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/11L/flash-wv-long.html

fthoma
September 10, 2017 10:38 am

The Miami radar loop is telling also. I’m relieved here in Brevard County, and I hope the West Coast gets relief also.

fthoma
Reply to  fthoma
September 10, 2017 10:38 am