Last weekend saw the “March for climate”, and I posted a list of some of the zany and crazy protest signs. But, I wasn’t much focusing on the people themselves. One WUWT reader in Oakland, CA snapped this photo showing protesters with their signs, praying (or meditating) to ….who? what? They even had what looked like a priest. Clearly, the premise here was a religious experience.
From the placard labelled “Green Gulch Farm Zen Center”, I gather that these people think they are practicing zen. Although zen is often practiced in association with religion, it is not itself a religion and no religious observance is necessary for the practice of zen. Essentially, zen is simply spiritual practice and its purpose is to enlighten the mind with the direct experience of reality itself beyond all conceptualized forms in which our minds may imagine it. The traditional zen masters say that in this enlightenment the true indivisibility and inseparability of the self and the universe become fully realised and the universe is experienced as one’s own self. As to the truth or untruth of this claim, I can only say that one must practice it oneself to tell that, or in other words “Suck it and see!”.
It is said that there are many ways to spiritual enlightenment and Zen is the way of direct knowing by immediate personal experience. Its practitioners disdain prejudices and preconceptions, second-hand knowledge learned from books or other people and blaming others for one’s own faults, failings and unwanted experiences, which are all regarded as self-defeating blocks to enlightenment.
But what can we see all these self-styled “climate justice warriors” practicing? Closed-minded prejudice against perceived “climate change deniers” when nobody is denying that the climate is changing; reverence for book-learning from idolized “climate scientists” whose half-baked climate theories have never even been tested let alone proven, and condemnation of all civilization for committing the abomination of global geocide when there is no real evidence that any such crime is being committed!
These people are not practicing zen. They are practicing self-delusion, which is the very opposite of zen!
That’s a well thought out response, RP, but when you face people like these, whose minds are closed to seeing the physical evidence around them, and who fail to admit their own hypocrisies (food sources, clothing, etc.), what do you propose as a solution?
I’m concerned, after seeing the violence that accompanied protests last fall and continuing through last weekend, that what these people want IS some sort of violent confrontation so that they can be the victims of some imaginary retaliation by other people who don’t agree with them.
These people are entitled to their opinions, even if we find them to be rather silly. The fact that they refuse to even listen to an opposite view, refuse to engage in reasonable discussion and applaud/support violence against people who’ve done nothing to them, is unsettling at the very least.
So what would you suggest as a remedy? I don’t think we can afford to ignore them, especially after Bill Nye’s asinine ‘jail the deniers’ remarks and Shekla’s attempts to get the government to persecute anyone who disagrees with so-called ‘climate science’. This borders on fanaticism and witch hunts.
Hi Sara. I concur with your observations about these people.
You ask for my solution. Actually, I don’t think we need to do any more than we are already doing to solve the problem that they are presenting. Their house is built on popular make-believe and it is only a question of time before everyone grows tired of maintaining the ever-larger illusions that are required to support it. In fact, the environmental alarmists’ apocalyptic doomsday cult is already visibly declining as dame nature continues to be stubbornly un-co-operative in producing the heat-death of the planet which their number-sorcerers proclaimed was imminent and the public’s faith in them is eroding as a result.
But as if that was not enough, they are also demonstrating daily, in places like Germany and South Australia, that their technological prescriptions for saving the planet from man-made global warming are not only not fit for purpose but are economically disastrous as well. How long can the politicians who have been promoting these green disasters and paying for them with their electorates’ money expect to stay in office afterwards? The clock is ticking for them all.
So, in essence, Sara, the “solution” that I am suggesting is simply to leave this crazy death-cult to itself and let it bring about its own demise by manifesting the contradictions that are inherent in its nature and suffering the collisions with reality that ensue. The only way that I can see for it to avoid this fate is for it to evolve into something more truthful and relevant to the real needs of the environment.
you echo my exact point made earlier.
Buddhism is not a faith, it is a set of techniques to allow people to move beyond faith.
It appears the climate tyros, after their extended tantrums, were given a ‘time out’ under a shade tree….
All this shows is it’s really not about the climate; like all issues taken up by the progressive West, it’s about them.
Maybe they are practicing meditation around the tent.
Some doctors are claiming that meditation is better for battlefield PTSD patients, than giving them drugs.
We should promote meditation amongst the alarmists to help them with their TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). It will help them calm down, and be less violent when their bubbles are burst by the truth. They might even reach enlightenment! 🙂
Btw, meditation *does* work. At least to a certain extent (physical).
I was a stone-cold skeptic about meditation, but I let a girlfriend of mine talk me into going to a learning session in meditation back in the 1970’s. So I went, and went through the routine they teach, and was amazed to find that it actually had an effect on me.
I literally could sit down right now and within five minutes could lower my heart rate and breathing rate by practicing this technique. I can’t say that I found any enlightening thoughts while doing this, but I never really did it on a regular basis, which is what you are supposed to do in order to enlighten your mind. But you definitely get the calming, slowing effect every time you do it.
I don’t know how the technique works, but it does. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I realized it. I would never have believed it, without personally experiencing it.
So, I guess a good lesson is one should not dismiss something out of hand, before trying it.
I think meditation would do the alarmists a world of good (and it’s simple to learn, you can learn it in a day). They might even have their mind opened and realize that Trump isn’t such a bad guy after all.
“I literally could sit down right now and within five minutes could lower my heart rate and breathing rate by practicing this technique.”
I think you are quite right about physical meditation effects having a positive effect on the body. When you are breathing correctly, the blood oxygen %SPO2 is healthy (92%+) which in turn tends to normalize the heart as well as the brain (and everything else). Focussing the brain on something positive, or neutral, also has a better chance of the brain entering Beta brain wave activity which is also very relaxing which allows the body to self heal.
We see the opposite with a health defect like say, sleep apnea. Lack of sufficient oxygen, and the heart suffers as well as the brain, and at some point people then die peacefully in their sleep. Or the abuse of opioids, which depress the self breathing regulation, and too much and you also die because of lack of oxygen. Oxygen is our primary fuel, and controlling that via meditation can have very good health outcomes.
No religion required. Or medication.
We should infiltrate the Left at these protest rallies, and suggest that we all ‘meditate’ first as a way of getting to the truth. Since meditation is sort of considered left field, and we aren’t challenging any CAGW sacred cows at the rally other than just me the truth, then maybe we can get them to calm down on the climate crisis they imagine.
“I think meditation would do the alarmists a world of good”
I think part of the problem here is that the alarmists (and ‘progressives’ in general) are good at pretending and mimicry and not necessarily very good at much else beyond emoting. Which makes them… better, you see… more human than we evil, stupid non-collectivists.
Of course this also makes them group-thinkers easily led by manipulators and they’re dangerous in large quantities. One or two morons you can usually manage or avoid. Ten morons, on the other hand…
The purpose of meditation is to develop self-awareness so we act with attention. As only our physical bodies are present in the moment (right now), but our minds and thoughts can wander (past and future), during meditation one tries to focus the mind on the body. Ultimately, the goal is to develop “divided” attention so you can be self-aware in the moment while thinking, observing, or doing other things. You want to eliminate acting “mechanically” without attention and awareness. This is a simplification. It takes long, concentrated effort.
If you actually give attention to yourself and what you do, you will discover there are many yous (or Is from your perspective) within you. That is why you do not follow through on your resolutions. The I that made the resolution never shows up to carry out the resolution, having been replaced by a different I within you.
*Shudder*.
‘QUIET AREA’- No noisy science here please.
Relevant to all of this discussion is my posting on Jordan Peterson at 5:04pm above.
Listen to some of his lectures, and be prepared for a life changing experience.
Blocked in my country on copyright grounds.
I absolutely LOVE how WUWT threads about climate stuff morph into serious (and sarc) debates about religion and even get bogged down into some of the minutiae of things particular religions say. Seem to remember some comment about this being a religion site, not a science site, recently on here too.
I need to pray for you all a bit more.
Reverend,
Unfortunately it is a valid rap against this site that it promotes the false religion of creationism, contrary to the disclaimers of our gracious and esteemed host. But I understand why he doesn’t want to shut up people who, for the good of climate skepticism, should be squelched here. I can see why he tolerates creationism but not “Sl@yerism”, which is scientific, while creationism isn’t, but outside the mainstream of “climate science”, which is more relevant to the site than is biology.
IMO some discussion of religion is relevant, if it helps fundamentalists to realize that their cult of creationism isn’t science, and that there is no scientific “debate” over the reality of evolution.
I keep asking creationists to explain how they imagine that new species are “created”, if they don’t evolve, or if they all suddenly appeared all at once, just one time. Does God just poof them into existence? One moment, no pheasants. Next moment, Poof! Pheasants!
If all God’s creations are perfect, why then is there extinction? This was a serious worry after Cuvier demonstrated the fact of extinction in 1798. Jefferson didn’t buy it, adhering to the religious belief in the Great Chain of Being, which is why he asked Lewis and Clark to be on the lookout for mastodons in the Wild West. But by the 1820s, the accumulation of overwhelming evidence convinced him of the reality of extinction.
As opposed to one moment no universe, next minute Poof! Big Bang?
which just goes to show that applying Causality beyond the here and now is not necessarily helpful…
Evolution is just a model.
Creationism is just a model
The big bang is just a model
Everything you know is just a model.
The point being there are helpful models, in the context of some value judgement, and there are unhelpful models, in the context of some value judgement.
There is no rational basis for any absolute value judgement. Therefore no one can say what ultimately is helpful in an absolute sense, therefore no absolute judgement can be made as to whether anything is morally right, or morally wrong.
However we can say that certain patterns of behaviour create self persistence, whilst others do not. Men who jump off cliffs thinking they can fly, are not morally wrong, merely evolutionary dead ends.
Men who insisted upon the existence of a curiously anthropocentric Being who conducts the orchestra of the Universe, were able to justify the imposition of a moral code on the basis of supernatural instruction:That moral code created a society that was stable enough to survive and prosper.
Some lies, have persistence.
Others do not.
societies that believe in man made climate change and revel in anthropic guilt, may well be too precious to persist. Perhaps that is the whole point. Darwin rules…
“Unfortunately it is a valid rap against this site that it promotes the false religion of creationism, contrary to the disclaimers of our gracious and esteemed host”
If you are really honest with yourself you will see that this is the kind of argumentation that warmists use. Using an assumed conclusion as a premise is never a good idea.
“If all God’s creations are perfect, why then is there extinction?”
Perfect is a potentially ambiguous word. Perhaps extinct species were created perfectly for a temporary purpose.
It’s interesting how we all excel at some things, and miserably fail at others. Humility and self-doubt are so important.
Hey, you Rev Boy Badger – and Chimp –
Evolution is a series of genetic mutations that benefit the survival of an organism.
Don’t think so? Homo sapiens is a primate, a massively large order or mammals composed of 16 families and 72 genera. Humans and the rest of the order of Primates all have hands with fingers and thumbs, and toes on their feet. Some have prehensile toes, as well as prehensile tails. This biological order is made up of thousands of species within the genera, including the great apes (gorillas, bonobos, chimpanzees), but out of all that genetic diversity Homo sapiens is the ONLY primate with an opposable thumb.
The opposable thumb benefited Homo ergaster (distant ancestor) and H. ergaster’s descendants inherited that genetic mutation, evolving into modern humans, H. sapiens. How is that possible? Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.
Birds used to have teeth. Chicken embryos X-rayed in the egg show pre-hatching tooth buds that disappear when the chick hatches. No modern birds have teeth after hatching because the genetic marker was switched off long ago.
This is a tiresome and ridiculous argument. If you bothered to ask a biologist about evolution and what I said, you’ll get a confirmation that I’m right and creationism is a bunch of hooey, as asinine as Lysenkoism and Lamarckianism.
I marvel at your faith, your certainty…
Leo Smith, are you intentionally being rude, or do you simply dislike women?
Interesting discussion here about Christianity and such. I am pleased with the level of discussion on this board, even when there are disagreements. I am a Christian, but for now I won’t jump in with particulars on theology here.
What I will comment on is Marx’s view of religion. He knew that it makes people happy. Marx’s goal, and still the goal of current leftists is to make people unhappy so they will tear down what they have.
As Elle Woods said in Legally Blonde:
Happy people don’t shoot their husbands.
Chimp, Sara, etc
I am impressed by the no. of reactions here, showing again that rather than science,
it is religion and politics that are the two most talked about subjects.\
I am sure you must realize that if you are the creator of something, i.e. the artist, you cannot, yourself, actually being inside the object that you have just created? You have to look at it from the outside toward it. This is fairly elementary thinking. I cannot believe that you would think that if God exists, one must be able to SEE Him clearly.
But, as the scripture says, you are able to see him.
I have explained it for you here:
http://breadonthewater.co.za/2017/02/20/if-god-exists-why-cannot-we-see-him/
You should read this, especially the evidence / links that I show where it seems that God did decide to show us what he did look like.
There is no other person/deity who claimed the same things as Jesus did, namely that He is still there, after His death, to prepare a place for us beyond life. In fact, we can go as far as saying that you should be able to see this from the miracles in nature that happen on a daily basis. For example, I recently heard that there is a flower who just looks like female hommel-bee. When the male hommel bee sees it, he thinks : pleasure time. In this way he distributes the seeds of the flower….
You call it evolution?
I say it is a miracle…..
Is this a Rorschach Test? I think many here, including Anthony, jumped to conclusions based on expectations and biases. From the image and the signs, it appears that this group may be protesting the injustices (and atrocities like corn ethanol that caused so much death and malnutrition) that the extreme global warming catastrophe narrative has enabled. It appears to me that these silent protesters may well be among the center left like Freeman Dyson- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiKfWdXXfIs
and Bjorn Lomborg- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5YmgekQyNk
and myself who protest the extremist narratives of both the right and the left.
Well I don’t think that. I look at these people and their signs and think, whatever it is they’re smoking I’d best leave it alone. You could be right though and they’re just taking the piss.
You can be assured that it is quite possible to lead a happy, full life with no involvement of religion. Indeed, its absence might clear the mind for more progressive thoughts. Religion is somewhat antithetic to science. The error bars are quite different.
It is embarrassing to read the religious assertions in this thread. Geoff.
Geoff
generally speaking, I find a lack of respect by people [like you] on scientific websites for people who believe [in God, any religion].
This is not acceptable. On a website like WUWT I think we are all students and teachers to each other. Religion and science are two ways to find the same thing: the Truth. It took me more than 30 years [to hear the voice of God], I think in the case of Moses it took double that amount of time. You too, will hear it, some day as we are all on a journey to discover the reason for being born.
You just have to knock on the door before someone responds….
True enough, Jesus {God} did wonder if He would still find faith on earth once He would come back. Just philosophizing on that, that would be the day when you die or when the world ends, whichever comes first = [equal to] to the day when the universe ends.
[as the years before you were born and after your death don’t really count]
Just to make sure I understand your belief:
if you believe there is no God, you are actually saying that you believe that out of absolutely nothing and guided by absolutely nobody, an incredible intelligent and intellectual person (like yourself) with a material body came into being.
I think for you to believe that such a miracle could have happened, you must actually have a much bigger faith than that of a person simply believing and admitting that there is a Higher Power, a God who created him for a specific plan and purpose! Good luck with that faith of yours!
Hi Doug. You say:
I’m afraid I cannot see anything in the image and the signs to indicate that. Perhaps this is a Rorschach test as you suspected.
What I do see in the image and the signs is a group of people who are calling our attention to four things which they are concerned about, namely zen practice, jobs, climate and justice. However, if they were really practicing zen properly they would not need to be concerned about the other three things because they would know that the universe is already providing just the right jobs for everyone in it, that it is already maintaining and controlling the climate in perfect order and with meticulous care and that everything that really happens in the universe is always perfectly just and fair. In short, they would accept that all is well with the world and understand that in reality there is nothing for them to be concerned about.
Therefore, I think the fact that they are concerned about these other things – so concerned, in fact, that they have gone on a protest march about them – must mean that they cannot have understood what zen is about and cannot be practicing it properly.
Back in the 90s, during the peak of the whole New Age thing, I got a reading during a New Age festival at that park. Well one thing for sure, love it or hate it, the Bay Area is a place where you can go shooting, get a reading, drink a farm to table herb infused expensive cocktail and a greasy and wonderful “hangover cure” burrito all within a few hours.
Would this be tantamount to cultural appropriation, in the millennial-speak of today? perhaps, it is religio-apppropriation?
People are desperate to believe in something and for some reason humans have a deep need to scare themselves . Predictions of climate Armageddon appeal to the same group think of burning witches .
Eco – pretenders have relied on fossil fuels every day of their lives and if so convicted of harm would stop using them . Not going to happen and why should it ? Co2 is the greenest fuel on earth and warming does more good than harm because as we all know climate changes .
A trace gas representing a fraction of 1 % causing the earth to have a fever . Who gets away this utter BS ?
The Climate Con relies on a scientifically illiterate population , governments hungry for more tax revenue and grant seeking business promoters looking for government to make them rich out of a mann made up
paper dragon .
Survey people on the street about what CO2 vs Co , what CO2 represents as a percent of the atmosphere and whether CO2 has been higher before human use of fossil fuels .
The fewer the facts the stronger the opinions and the easier to con people . Warming any day over cooling .
Why would greenie pretenders want to reduce a trace gas that is essential to greening the earth ?
a few things come together. 1. obviously there is a great need for a uniting principle. This may be the result of secularization. Threats of unknown phenomena come to the rescue in this case. Cllimate threat is excellent. 2. technological and scientific illiteracy makes vulnarable against false prophets using preudo-science 3. activists attack the industrial society and free market. Now combine 1. 2. 3.
I found it amusing that this picture represents the religious nature of global warming believers.
Im convinced that AGW BELIEVERS are completely brainwashed by the main stream media.
“97% ” evokes a Pavlov dog reaction.as does ANY harsh weather event.They drool when there is a drought or hurricane or tornado.
Noone bothers to investigate the science ,as they 100% trust PBS and the NYTs.
But the MSM never vets the liar climate scientists lies.So the climate scientist liars have a direct bug in the public’s ear.
Im a lifelong Democrat and Im describing how my friends have been brainwashed.
I took the picture BTW .Thanks Anthony for not posting my name.
Im scared to death Nutsacksilly would be going through my garbage can.
true believers recognize the hand of their God everywhere around them…….
@Goldrider
“That doesn’t look like a very big “crowd.” Worthy of attention, really? I’ve seen bigger audiences for the dude who plays bongo drums in the subway under Grand Central Station”
What is the optimum size crowd that’ll satisfy you? I recall that when hundreds of thousands turned out for a climate march in Manhattan several years ago, many comments here were disparaging of the large number of “useful idiots”