NCSE Previews Their Nakedly Partisan Climate Primer

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

The National Center for Science Education has in my opinion betrayed the scientific principles they claim to defend, by suggesting in its global warming primer that climate models are reliable, and by claiming the serially debunked Mann hockey stick graph is credible.

Q: Still, shouldn’t there be some explanation for the slowing? [the pause]

Yes, there should be, and while scientists are still trying to understand the details, the basic explanation almost certainly goes as follows. The addi- tional heat and energy trapped in the atmosphere by the rising carbon diox- ide concentration can manifest itself in several di erent ways, and the ris- ing surface temperature shown in figures 2.1 and 2.2 is only one of those. In fact, more than 90% of the added heat and energy is expected to warm the water in the oceans (as opposed to warming the land and ocean surface), and data indicate that the ocean waters have continued to warm without any evidence of slowing (figure 2.3).

Scientific models differ from the models you may be familiar with in everyday life, which are typically miniature representations of real objects, such as model cars or airplanes. In contrast, a scientific model is a conceptual representation, often developed with the help of com- puters, that uses known scientific laws, logic, and mathematics in an attempt to describe how some aspect of nature works. The model can be tested by seeing how well it corresponds to reality. Models are important in almost every field of science, but here we’ll focus specifically on models of Earth’s climate.

The principle behind a climate model is relatively simple. Scientists create a computer program that represents the climate as a grid of cubes like those shown in figure 2.6, so that each cube represents one small part of our planet over one range of altitudes in the atmosphere. The “initial conditions” for the model consist of a mathematical represen- tation of the weather or climate within each cube at some moment in time. This representation might incorporate data on such things as the temperature, air pressure, wind speed and direction, and humidity at the time the model begins. The model uses equations of physics (for example, equations that describe how heat flows from one cube to neighboring cubes) to predict how the conditions in each cube will change in some time period, such as the next hour. It then uses the new conditions and the equations to predict the conditions after another hour, and so on. In this way, the model can simulate climate changes over any period of time.

Decades ago, climate models were fairly simple, using grids no more complex than the one in figure 2.6. Over time, however, scientists have in essence used trial and error to make the models better and better. Again, the principle is easy to understand: If your model fails to reproduce the real climate in some important way, then you look to see what might be going wrong. For example, you might have neglected some important law of physics, or the cubes in your grid might need to be smaller to give accurate results. Once you think you know what went wrong, you revise the model, and see if it works better. If it does, then you have at least some reason to think you are on the right track, and if it doesn’t, you go back to the drawing board.

Today’s climate models are fantastically detailed, and they reproduce the actual climate of the past century with remarkable accuracy. Indeed, the modern models work so well that scientists can use them to conduct “experiments” in which they ask what would happen if this or that were different than it is. Figure 2.7 shows an example of the power this approach provides. The red curve shows temperatures over the past century and a half as predicted by the best available climate models, which take into account both natural factors affecting cli- mate, such as changes in the Sun’s output and volcanic eruptions, and human factors, such as the increase in the carbon dioxide concentra- tion from the burning of fossil fuels. Notice that these models provide an excellent match to the general trends in the real data (black curve). In contrast, models that leave out the human factors predict the blue curve, and as you can see, this curve does not agree with the observed warming of the past few decades. The fact that we get a close match between the models and reality only when changes in both natural and human factors are included gives us great confidence that human factors are the cause of the recent warming.

What’s the bottom line for Skeptic Claim 2?

There are no known natural factors that could account for the substantial warming of the past century. We’ve discussed two sets of observations that definitively rule out the Sun as the cause: (1) solar energy input has been falling while the temperature has been rising; and (2) the upper atmosphere has been cooling while the lower atmosphere warms, which is consistent only with greenhouse warming, not warming due to the Sun. Scientists investigate other potential causes with models, and today’s sophisticated models match up extremely well with observations of the actual climate — but only when we include the human contributions to global warming, not natural factors alone. The match makes it highly likely that the models are on the right track, giving us further confidence in the idea that human activity is the cause of most or all recent global warming.

Wait — didn’t I hear that the hockey stick graph has been discredited?

Well, you probably have heard this, since it is frequently repeated in places like the Wall Street Journal’s op-ed pages, but it is not true. The original version of the “hockey stick” was published by climate scientist Michael Mann in 1998, and he used only a single data set. Skeptics jumped on it, claiming all kinds of reasons why the data should be doubted. Scientists took the skeptic concerns seriously, and therefore did what scientists do: They investigated in more detail. Indeed, the reason you see so many data sets — from independent sources including tree rings, corals, stalagmites, ice cores, and more — in figure 2.10 is that the scientific community went to great lengths in trying to either confirm or refute Mann’s original “hockey stick.” Keep in mind that every curve you see in figure 2.10 represents many years of fieldwork and careful research by a substantial group of scientists, who often put their lives on the line to collect the data in remote and dangerous locations. As you can see, these additional studies clearly confirm Mann’s original conclusions. Still not mollified, the skeptics were so adamant in their objections that they convinced Con- gress to ask the National Research Council (NRC) to investigate those conclusions. The NRC report, published in 2006, concluded that the graph and the data were fully valid.

Read more: https://ncse.com/files/pub/evolution/excerpt–primer.pdf

The NCSE document clearly contradicts itself with regard to the reliability of climate models. The suggestion that models are so reliable they can be used to conduct climate experiments is ridiculous in the face of the admission that the reason for the pause is still being investigated, that the models might have to be adjusted. The “modern” models have failed their first serious test.

One third of all the CO2 humans have ever produced was emitted during the pause. If model assumptions were correct, this should have blown global temperatures sky high. The fact surface temperatures stagnated, you can’t simply sweep an anomaly like that under the carpet, or into the ocean. Even if the ocean did swallow the heat, a valid climate model should have predicted this. If a model cannot predict when the ocean will swallow vast amounts of excess heat, then projections of future temperature are utterly unreliable.

As for suggestions Mann’s hockey stick has been upheld by scientific investigation, you could read many excellent analysis of hockey stick methodology issues, but what I find most intriguing is that even the scientists who helped produce the hockey stick had reservations – they just chose not to talk about those concerns in public.

Climategate email 0938018124.txt (CRU Professor Keith Briffa in September 1999, recipients include Michael Mann)

… I know there is pressure to present a nice tidy story as regards ‘apparent unprecedented warming in a thousand years or more in the proxy data’ but in reality the situation is not quite so simple. We don’t have a lot of proxies that come right up to date and those that do (at least a significant number of tree proxies ) some unexpected changes in response that do not match the recent warming. I do not think it wise that this issue be ignored in the chapter.

For the record, I do believe that the proxy data do show unusually warm conditions in recent decades. I am not sure that this unusual warming is so clear in the summer responsive data. I believe that the recent warmth was probably matched about 1000 years ago.

Climategate email 3759.txt, sent to Keith Briffa in August 2000, discusses substantial evidence that the medieval warm period and little ice age were global, not local variations of limited geographic scope, as was claimed by Michael Mann.

Hi Keith,

Here is the Oroko Swamp RCS chronology plot in an attached Word 98 file and

actual data values below. It certainly looks pretty spooky to me with

strong “Medieval Warm Period” and “Little Ice Age” signals in it. It’s

based on substantially more replication than the series in the paper you

have to review (hint, hint!). In terms of rbar, sample size, and eps, it is

probably okay back to about AD 980 at this time. I still have 3-4 more

subfossil sections to process, but it is doubtful that the story will

change much. When I come over in October, I am thinking about asking

Jonathan Palmer to come over from Belfast for a visit. What do you think

about that?

Ed …

Cimategate source material available from Wikileaks

Oroko Swamp is in New Zealand, a long way from Northern Europe, where the medieval warm period and little ice age are documented history. The existence of a substantial global medieval warm period and little ice age is a direct contradiction of the flatness of the pre-anthropogenic component of Mann’s hockey stick reconstruction. And its not just the reconstruction from Oroko Swamp in New Zealand – other proxies from Japan, Antarctica and elsewhere have confirmed that the medieval warm period and little ice age were global.

Spot the Hockey Stick

Submitting to pressure to tell a nice tidy story, at least in public, ignoring or discounting evidence which contradicts the alarmist position, trying to sweep aside criticism of a theory by suggesting everything is OK because a major anomaly is being investigated – this isn’t the scientific method I was taught.

In my opinion the NCSE is doing a grave disservice by advancing such a nakedly partisan assessment of climate science, by ignoring or glossing over very real issues with climate alarmist positions. I’m not suggesting the NCSE should necessarily take the skeptic position on every climate issue, but a little more balance would provide a much better teaching resource for their audience. Let us hope the NCSE have the integrity to apologise for and correct their unbalanced assessment, once they realise what they have done.

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Bob Weber
May 3, 2017 8:13 pm

“What’s the bottom line for Skeptic Claim 2?
There are no known natural factors that could account for the substantial warming of the past century. We’ve discussed two sets of observations that definitively rule out the Sun as the cause: (1) solar energy input has been falling while the temperature has been rising; and (2) the upper atmosphere has been cooling while the lower atmosphere warms, which is consistent only with greenhouse warming, not warming due to the Sun. “

Literally hundreds of papers were published since 2000 demonstrating the solar influence on the weather and climate, yet this outfit and so many others at warmist-ideologically leadership dominated journals and institutions of higher learning, the media, the government, and so on act like there aren’t any other scientific reasons for climate change, nor any other scientists out there that could challenge them.
My guess is they obfuscated the truth by relying on just sunspot numbers alone assuming there should be a directly immediate correspondence to temperature.
The earth is supersensitive to solar radiation variations. They know nothing of this, ie they’re ignorant.
When TSI goes up, temps go up, and when TSI falls, temps fall, and it doesn’t matter from what ‘level’ of TSI or temperature either.
The tropical ocean accumulates more heat in short to long time periods under rising and higher TSI conditions, and can lose that heat just as fast when TSI falls or is low.
These principles resulted from my own forthcoming research, where I independently & inadvertently confirm with unique methods most of Dr. David Stockwell’s solar accumulation and supersensitivity theory; going beyond with modelling & forecasting, the solar cause of the warming of the 20th century.
In order for warmists to be so self-deluded they have to believe the indefensible, they have to believe more heat from the sun during the modern maximum didn’t register in the temperature series. Fools!
Lower solar activity since 2004 caused ‘the pause’, interrupted only by the SC24 TSI-spike driven ENSO.
The cause of the pause was the cause before the pause! Solar activity.
The bottom line for the NCSE is they don’t know what they’re talking about and the kids will soon know it.

Richmond
May 3, 2017 8:21 pm

There is a TED talk (or TEDX) by Gavin Schmitt where he argued that the climate models were “artful”. OK, but art is not science, however, art can be used to help explain what science does or explain results. Propaganda on the other hand is designed to get people to accept a certain viewpoint, or “facts”.
This NSCE primer looks like pure propaganda.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Richmond
May 3, 2017 10:27 pm

Artful, indeed!
art·ful ˈärtfəl/ adjective
1. [this is the primary definition!]
(of a person or action) clever or skillful, typically in a crafty or cunning way.
“her artful wiles”
synonyms: sly, crafty, cunning, wily, scheming, devious, Machiavellian, sneaky, tricky, conniving, designing, calculating; canny, shrewd; deceitful, duplicitous, disingenuous, underhanded; informal: foxy, shifty;
archaic: subtle
“artful politicians”
antonyms: ingenuous

michael hart
May 3, 2017 8:24 pm

In the real world, not even Michael Mann wants to defend his hockey stick graph. If he did, then he would take steps to speed up the process of meeting Mark Steyn in court. But he knows that the legal intimidation ploy has backfired.
Mann has a cadre of lay supporters who are not yet well informed. The grunts have been left holding the gate to the fort, not realizing that the general has already scuttled out of the back door.

May 3, 2017 8:45 pm

” … equations that describe how heat flows from one cube to neighboring cubes”
Yep , it’s all in the differential between voxels .
So show us that equation — one we can experimentally quantitatively verify — one based on classical physics .
I have yet to see even a 1 dimensional differential which causes thermal energy to be “trapped” on the side away from the source by some spectral , ie : greenhouse , phenomenon .

Tim Crome
May 3, 2017 8:58 pm

What complete and utter rubbish, an extremely low quality emotional appeal: “Keep in mind that every curve you see in figure 2.10 represents many years of fieldwork and careful research by a substantial group of scientists, who often put their lives on the line to collect the data in remote and dangerous locations.”

Reply to  Tim Crome
May 3, 2017 9:03 pm

The scientists are fat?

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Max Photon
May 3, 2017 10:18 pm

Just their heads.

stevekeohane
Reply to  Max Photon
May 4, 2017 7:37 am
stevekeohane
Reply to  Max Photon
May 4, 2017 7:41 am

Tiny Pics didn’t post the link correctly, Try again, Mann with HS around his head:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2i7mfex.jpg

stevekeohane
Reply to  Max Photon
May 5, 2017 1:31 pm

Has Tiny Pics gotten political? The link for the picture I tried to post does not show up. They once banned a Gore as devil photoshop I had. I will re-upload the picture and get a different link to see if it will post.

stevekeohane
Reply to  Max Photon
May 5, 2017 1:40 pm
Patrick MJD
May 3, 2017 9:23 pm

“The addi- tional heat and energy trapped in the atmosphere by the rising carbon diox- ide concentration…”
Stopped reading right there…
Science education? As Bender would say “My shiny metal adz”!

jorgekafkazar
May 3, 2017 10:17 pm

“Q: Still, shouldn’t there be some explanation for the slowing? [the pause]”
“Yes, there should be, and while scientists remain utterly clueless, we, in our omniscience and wisdom, will simply make something up. Look on our works, ye Mighty, and despair!”

May 3, 2017 11:06 pm

If only we could sweep the Warmistas under the mat in the same way they sweep the inconvenient scientific facts under the mat.

4TimesAYear
May 4, 2017 12:37 am

Indoctrination, not education. *SMH*

May 4, 2017 12:59 am

North wind 25 mph
Temp 50 F
May 4 North East Texas
Looks and feels like an October “Blue Nirther”
Wet, cold, and bad for wheat crop.
Wheat booted out late due to cold
Now the wheat seed should be growing but the cold has slowed development.
So the wheat will be late getting ripe allowing weeds and things like Johnson grass and other trash to grow and-cause harvest problems.
It’s right in front of them but the cult mentality has them blind to the lies they tell themselves.
Mother Nature is going to kick them in the teeth!

May 4, 2017 2:21 am

“Let us hope the NCSE have the integrity to apologise for and correct their unbalanced assessment, once they realise what they have done.”
________________________________________
The NCSE will be or will NOT be.
As long as there’s a NCSE it can defend realising their deeds.

willhaas
May 4, 2017 2:27 am

The fact is that a radiant greenhouse effect has not been observed on any planet in the solar system with a thick atmosphere, including the Earth.. The radiant greenhouse effect is hence fiction as is the AGW conjecture which depends upon the existance of such a radaint greenhouse effect. If CO2 really affected climate then the increase in CO2 over the past 30 years should have caused at least a neasureable increase in the dry lapse rate in the troposphere but that has not happened.
The climate simulations they are talking about have harded coded in the an increase in CO2 causes warming which begs the question which renders the climate simulations useless. The simulations are programed to show warming so they show warming. They are a form of fantasy. There is also concern that the numerical techniques are really unstable so that at least part of the results are more a matter of the inharent numerical instability then of any physical phenomenon. Others have provided models that show that the climate change we have been experiencing is caused by the sun and the oceans. There is plenty of science to support the idea that the climate sensitivity of CO2 is really zero.

WTF
May 4, 2017 2:37 am

What are Eric’s qualifications that justify him taking up so much space here ?
If he has so much evidence he should submit it to some real scientists for review.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  WTF
May 4, 2017 5:14 am

Oh look; a drive-by climate troll. Haven’t seen one of those in a while.

WTF
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
May 4, 2017 3:44 pm

Asking basic questions is not trolling, you guys need to submit credible evidence if you want scientific discussion.

MarkW
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
May 5, 2017 8:11 am

It’s not a credible question.
It’s an attempt to deny that those who aren’t members of the club are qualified to comment on the activities of those in the club.
At it’s heart it’s anti-science, but then, so are most members of the club.

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
May 5, 2017 1:23 pm

I don’t generally like to be this rude, but it was a dumb question. Albert Einstein was a patent clerk when he wrote many of his early groundbreaking papers. Should they have been thrown in the bin just because he wasn’t a professor at a university? Many great scientific discoveries over the centuries were made by laypeople. Critique the content or go away.

WTF
Reply to  WTF
May 6, 2017 7:35 pm

MarkW
As you young Einsteins have not submitted any credible evidence, then I am justified in asking why and floating the wacky notion that it may have something to do with your lack of scientific understanding.
The burden of proof is with you.

Chimp
Reply to  WTF
May 6, 2017 7:40 pm

WTF,
The only burden that matters in science is not “proof”, but confirmation or falsification.
Science is not “proven” by submission to “real scientists” but to nature itself.

Editor
May 4, 2017 2:49 am

In fact, more than 90% of the added heat and energy is expected to warm the water in the oceans
I have still seen no explanation as to how the atmosphere can heat the deep ocean

mothcatcher
Reply to  Paul Homewood
May 4, 2017 5:00 am

Paul, I can certainly see how such a claim COULD be right, although like yourself I’ve never seen, or been pointed to, a proper exposition of it. Doubtless somewhere models have been produced which claim to show the effect, and perhaps to try to quantify it (difficult!)
The skin of the ocean will become warmed (or tend to give up less of its heat) by contact with the air or by direct insolation, but ocean overturning, or even simple wave and current action, will continously be reclaiming that warmed/less cooled water and replacing it with cooler water to be warmed in its turn. The observation than warm water rises because less dense is to my mind an insufficient refutation. Over a long period the almost limitless heat capacity of the ocean does seem to have the potential to buffer changes to atmospheric temperatures, and over even longer periods, to potentiate those changes in an opposite direction.
Some kind of explanation in this direction, properly validated, may go a little way to salvaging the AGW story.
That aside, I agree with many here that the propaganda piece that prompted this thread is quite, quite appalling.

Nigel S
Reply to  mothcatcher
May 4, 2017 5:24 am

Yes, you can tell they know they’re lying from the tone of desperation throughout.
“Tractor production is higher than ever!”
“Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia!”

Hugs
Reply to  mothcatcher
May 4, 2017 9:10 am

Again, I don’t see any reason to believe the authors were thinking their stuff is somehow incorrect. In 1984, the propagandists know they are developing lies, but I think these people truly believe the whole 97% of the CAGW belief system.

Dave
May 4, 2017 3:45 am

It seems that AGW propoganda is pervasive at all levels. Prince Charles`s little book on `Climate Change` is aimed at young schoolchildren. Among the reviewers he thanks are the usual suspects including a `scientist`, who certainly knows that ice cores show that carbon dioxide lags behind temperature. What`s he after, a knighthood?

May 4, 2017 3:46 am

” In fact, more than 90% of the added heat and energy is expected to warm the water in the oceans ”
As I keep pointing out [this] is impossible. IR [from] CO2 cant penetrate more than ~0.006 cm of [the] surface and is trapped in the cool layer.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Matt S
May 4, 2017 4:11 am

Their “thinking” on this is convoluted nonsense. First, they have this mysterious “added heat and energy”. Added to what? Where? They don’t say, because they can’t, having made it up out of whole cloth. Then, this mysterious “heat and energy” somehow, magically is “transferred” via teletransportation I guess, into the deep oceans where it can’t be measured (how convenient), where it will, at some point, via magic, come out and say boo! This is the sad state of what they call “science” today.

Hugs
Reply to  Matt S
May 4, 2017 9:18 am

See mothcatcher above. Besides, I believe the IR is a fallacy here. You need welling water to take heat down.

thingadonta
May 4, 2017 3:52 am

Napolean is always right

Nigel S
Reply to  thingadonta
May 4, 2017 5:18 am

Not always as poor Marengo discovered to his cost.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4462252/Hoof-belonging-Napoleon-s-stallion-Marengo-found.html
Waterloo 20 June 1815
Jardin Ainé; Equerry to the Emperor Napoleon
At last after he had left the town, he found in a little meadow on the right a small bivouac fire made by some soldiers. He stopped by it to warm himself and said to General Corbineau,
“Et bien Monsieur, we have done a fine thing.”
General Corbineau saluted him and replied,
“Sire, it is the utter ruin of France.”

thingadonta
Reply to  Nigel S
May 4, 2017 6:57 pm

I meant the pig in Animal Farm.

Butch
Reply to  AndyG55
May 4, 2017 5:09 am

..Wheres Griff hiding ???

Nigel S
Reply to  Butch
May 4, 2017 5:26 am

In the deep ocean?

MarkW
Reply to  Butch
May 4, 2017 6:41 am

His Mom’s basement.

Hugs
Reply to  Butch
May 4, 2017 9:19 am

He’s at the SKS to update his talking points?

ChrisDinBristol
May 4, 2017 4:52 am

‘climate models. . . Reproduce the ACTUAL climate of the past century with remarkable accuracy’
Since when is ‘climate’ described completely and accurately by the single metric of ‘global temperature’?
What about the other factors, some of which they mention(rainfall, cloud, sunshine hours, wind speed & direction, min and max temps rather than an average, night-time & daytime temps etc)?
And ‘climate’ is surely REGIONAL (climatic zones etc).
So how do these models perform on ALL climate metrics REGIONALLY compared to actual data?
Can they still be described as ‘remarkably accurate’?

Uncle Gus
May 4, 2017 5:20 am

I’m amazed at how reasonable it all sounds. This seems to be the main technique of the climate change establishment at the moment; no new findings, just spinning what they’ve got as hard as they can, so that a fail actually looks like a win. It works, because the believers believe so *hard* – a bit of verbiage calms them down, and they don’t have to think. This seems to apply even to the scientifically literate.
The bit about Mann’s hockey stick curve is a case in point. If you look really hard, you can see that they actually *admit* that it was debunked! – but then lots of clever scientists came up with other data that said the same thing, so that’s all right then. But, if his data was insufficient and his statistical methods were useless, *how did he know*? How did he do everything wrong, and still get the right answer?
I should nail my colours to the mast here. I am not a “denier”. I find it hugely unlikely that a trace gas like CO2 governs the whole planetary climate, but I’ll follow the data. That’s exactly why the present level of bullsh makes me so angry.

Rich Lambert
May 4, 2017 5:21 am

It is informative to review the membership list of NCSE’s advisory council.

dan houck
May 4, 2017 5:24 am

What is going on with this site? I try to read the articles and I keep getting scrolled down to the ads every 30 seconds or so. Incredibly annoying. Is this a new WordPress ‘feature’?

Butch
Reply to  dan houck
May 4, 2017 5:54 am

Clear your history, then refresh the page
Or get AdBlock Plus

Alan McIntire
May 4, 2017 5:29 am

‘…Today’s climate models are fantastically detailed, and they reproduce the actual climate of the past century with remarkable accuracy. Indeed, the modern models work so well that scientists can use them to conduct “experiments” in which they ask what would happen if this or that were different than it is’
That’s just curve fitting. As John von Neumann famously said, With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk.’
The only experiment that is worth a tinker’s dam is how well do the models predict the future; Do they do any better than the simplistic method of predicting the coming year will be just like last year?
The answer is ‘no’.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/14/climate-models-outperformed-by-random-walks/

kivy10
May 4, 2017 6:08 am

“We’ve discussed two sets of observations that definitively rule out the Sun as the cause: (1) solar energy input has been falling while the temperature has been rising; and (2) the upper atmosphere has been cooling while the lower atmosphere warms, which is consistent only with greenhouse warming, not warming due to the Sun.”
I am pretty sure that if the sun blinked out, it would not take very long for the earth to cool.

Thomas Homer
Reply to  kivy10
May 4, 2017 7:59 am

kivy10: “if the sun blinked out, it would not take very long for the earth to cool”
Like during a total eclipse? I’m curious if ‘back radiation’ is measured during an eclipse. If the eclipse happens in the middle of the day, I would assume that ‘back radiation’ levels would be highest once the direct radiation of the sun has been blocked fairly quickly. The rate of cooling of the Earth’s surface should be predicted and then verified with actual measurements.

MarkW
Reply to  Thomas Homer
May 4, 2017 10:46 am

No need to wait for an eclipse, just wait for the sun to set, it happens once a day.
Regardless, compared to the total sunlit surface area, the area shaded by an eclipse is pretty small

Thomas Homer
Reply to  Thomas Homer
May 4, 2017 10:55 am

MarkW – I expect better from you:
“No need to wait for an eclipse, just wait for the sun to set”
You find these two things to be equivalent?

MarkW
Reply to  Thomas Homer
May 5, 2017 8:12 am

The point is what happens when the sun stops shinning.
The two are equivalent, with the single exception is that sun down covers a larger area.

MarkW
Reply to  kivy10
May 4, 2017 8:27 am

When needed to explain lack of warming, the thermal lag of the oceans fits the bill nicely.
However when a short term drop in solar output occurs, the fact that the earth doesn’t immediately cool is proof that CO2 is causing the earth to warm.

Thomas Homer
Reply to  MarkW
May 4, 2017 10:32 am

MarkW – “the fact that the earth doesn’t immediately cool is proof that CO2 is causing the earth to warm.”
Are you being serious? Not sure what you mean by ‘immediately cool’, or why you think that is a ‘fact’. When a cloud moves in front of the sun on a summer day you definitely feel the difference immediately. Ergo, I’m skeptical of your ‘fact’. But, why don’t you design a test to prove your point during the next eclipse. Secondly, how does ‘not cooling immediately’ equate to ‘warming’?

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
May 4, 2017 10:47 am

Please re-read, this time aim for comprehension.

Alan McIntire
Reply to  MarkW
May 4, 2017 4:59 pm

That’s the problem with being sarcastic. One gets those he or she disagree with approving of his post, and people he or she agrees with criticizing the post.

May 4, 2017 6:48 am

Here is an exchange I had with Freeman Dyson two years ago.
E-mail 4/7/15
Dr Norman Page
Houston
Professor Dyson
Saw your Vancouver Sun interview.
I agree that CO2 is beneficial. This will be even more so in future because it is more likely than not that the earth has already entered a long term cooling trend following the recent temperature peak in the quasi-millennial solar driven periodicity .
The climate models on which the entire Catastrophic Global Warming delusion rests are built without regard to the natural 60 and more importantly 1000 year periodicities so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. This is scientific malfeasance on a grand scale. The temperature projections of the IPCC – UK Met office models and all the impact studies which derive from them have no solid foundation in empirical science being derived from inherently useless and specifically structurally flawed models. They provide no basis for the discussion of future climate trends and represent an enormous waste of time and money. As a foundation for Governmental climate and energy policy their forecasts are already seen to be grossly in error and are therefore worse than useless. A new forecasting paradigm needs to be adopted. For forecasts of the timing and extent of the coming cooling based on the natural solar activity cycles – most importantly the millennial cycle – and using the neutron count and 10Be record as the most useful proxy for solar activity check my blog-post at http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html
The most important factor in climate forecasting is where earth is in regard to the quasi- millennial natural solar activity cycle which has a period in the 960 – 1020 year range. For evidence of this cycle see Figs 5-9. From Fig 9 it is obvious that the earth is just approaching ,just at or just past a peak in the millennial cycle. I suggest that more likely than not the general trends from 1000- 2000 seen in Fig 9 will likely generally repeat from 2000-3000 with the depths of the next LIA at about 2650. The best proxy for solar activity is the neutron monitor count and 10 Be data. My view ,based on the Oulu neutron count – Fig 14 is that the solar activity millennial maximum peaked in Cycle 22 in about 1991. There is a varying lag between the change in the in solar activity and the change in the different temperature metrics. There is a 12 year delay between the activity peak and the probable millennial cyclic temperature peak seen in the RSS data in 2003. http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1980.1/plot/rss/from:1980.1/to:2003.6/trend/plot/rss/from:2003.6/trend
There has been a cooling temperature trend since then (Usually interpreted as a “pause”) There is likely to be a steepening of the cooling trend in 2017- 2018 corresponding to the very important Ap index break below all recent base values in 2005-6. Fig 13.
The Polar excursions of the last few winters in North America are harbingers of even more extreme winters to come more frequently in the near future.
I would be very happy to discuss this with you by E-mail or phone .It is important that you use your position and visibility to influence United States government policy and also change the perceptions of the MSM and U.S public in this matter. If my forecast cooling actually occurs the policy of CO2 emission reduction will add to the increasing stress on global food production caused by a cooling and generally more arid climate.
Best Regards
Norman Page
E-Mail 4/9/15
Dear Norman Page,
Thank you for your message and for the blog. That all makes sense.
I wish I knew how to get important people to listen to you. But there is
not much that I can do. I have zero credibility as an expert on climate.
I am just a theoretical physicist, 91 years old and obviously out of touch
with the real world. I do what I can, writing reviews and giving talks,
but important people are not listening to me. They will listen when the
glaciers start growing in Kentucky, but I will not be around then. With
all good wishes, yours ever, Freeman Dyson.
For more recent forecasts see my Energy and Environment paper at http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0958305X16686488
and an earlier accessible blog version at http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-coming-cooling-usefully-accurate_17.html
Here is the abstract for convenience :
“ABSTRACT
This paper argues that the methods used by the establishment climate science community are not fit for purpose and that a new forecasting paradigm should be adopted. Earth’s climate is the result of resonances and beats between various quasi-cyclic processes of varying wavelengths. It is not possible to forecast the future unless we have a good understanding of where the earth is in time in relation to the current phases of those different interacting natural quasi periodicities. Evidence is presented specifying the timing and amplitude of the natural 60+/- year and, more importantly, 1,000 year periodicities (observed emergent behaviors) that are so obvious in the temperature record. Data related to the solar climate driver is discussed and the solar cycle 22 low in the neutron count (high solar activity) in 1991 is identified as a solar activity millennial peak and correlated with the millennial peak -inversion point – in the RSS temperature trend in about 2004. The cyclic trends are projected forward and predict a probable general temperature decline in the coming decades and centuries. Estimates of the timing and amplitude of the coming cooling are made. If the real climate outcomes follow a trend which approaches the near term forecasts of this working hypothesis, the divergence between the IPCC forecasts and those projected by this paper will be so large by 2021 as to make the current, supposedly actionable, level of confidence in the IPCC forecasts untenable.”
The paper was published in E&E on line at DOI: 10.1177/0958305X16686488