Open Thread Saturday – "What Could We do Better"?

open_thread

I’m traveling today, and my ability to connect to the Internet will be hit and miss. Therefore, I’ve decided to run an open thread along with this question: What Could We do Better?

This applies to WUWT, it’s readers, moderators and guest contributors. Constructive criticisms and feedback are welcome, but for my blog spawn and detractors, your feedback is welcome too, but please leave your rants, vitriol, and hate mail at the front door.

For contributors with posting privileges, feel free to publish today if the mood strikes you.

 

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April 23, 2016 12:12 pm

I would argue to drop the threaded comments. Very often, people find that their comment goes where it was not intended. I would like to revert to a pure time-sequenced blog, but with each comment identified by a number, so it can be referred to in replies.

Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 12:16 pm

Numbering reference is used on Gavin’s RC, it appears that it works OK.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 12:28 pm

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Reply to  Tom in Florida
April 23, 2016 1:14 pm

10^55 votes from one person? Talk about stuffed ballots.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
April 23, 2016 2:04 pm

Tom is from Florida, there just to make sure they do at least 10^n recounts , where n is an integer equal or greater than number of presidential candidates, than it is appealed to the Florida Supreme Court. I am told that Al Gore never visited Florida again.

afonzarelli
Reply to  Tom in Florida
April 23, 2016 2:42 pm

He’s too worried about the sea level rise to go back to florida…

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Tom in Florida
April 24, 2016 11:34 am

My bad, I left off a zero.

Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 1:13 pm

-1 — most comments do wind up where they were intended, and as long as that is the case, the threaded format is more readable and skippable.
If WordPress allows it, it might be worthwhile to allow people to delete their comments. In this way, misplaced comments could be removed and re-inserted into the proper place.

Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 2:04 pm

Threaded comments leads to insular and ever more aggressive disputes.
Chronological ordering at least lets the lurker know how hastily the response was given.

climatereason
Editor
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 2:22 pm

I agree. At one time you could follow a sequential argument in its proper date order. Now they pop up all over the place and unless you have time to continually backtrack you are likely to miss interesting comments.
I am not sure about the numbering! as long as reference is made to who you are replying to.
It would be good to examine subjects in greater depth as well but that is not possible when there are so many new articles in a day.
Tonyb

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 24, 2016 9:08 am

lsvalgaard said:

but with each comment identified by a number, so it can be referred to in replies.

Each comment is already identified by a number, ….. a url # which can be referred to in replies.
Just “click-on” the date-time that the comment was posted ….. and then right-click on the url at the top-left of the screen ….. and then click “copy” and then paste it in your reply.
Like so, this is the # of your above post that I am responding to, … to wit:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/23/open-thread-saturday-what-could-we-do- better/comment-page-1/#comment-2197930
Or you can create a “hyper-link”, like so, to wit:
“In response to this comment ” of yours etc., etc. ….”
And I hope I entered it correctly.

Samuel C Cogar
Reply to  Samuel C Cogar
April 24, 2016 9:33 am

OOPS, made mistake, Neither of those above “links” will work because a “space” or a CR was inserted between “we-do-” ….. and “better” thus voiding the url.
Here it tis, I’ll try again:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/23/open-thread-saturday-what-could-we-do-better/comment-page-1/#comment-2197930
And the hyper-link is ….. In response to this comment ” of

Marcus
April 23, 2016 12:16 pm

..How come only 4 people have voted up top ?? Come on, hop to guys and gals !! Sheesh…

hornblower
April 23, 2016 12:21 pm

I really enjoy reading much of the science on this site. However, I think it is possible to think that AGW is exaggerated without having a mindset that requires to one to adhere to a particular political philosophy. Someone may be skeptical about this and still favor a liberal, conservative or any agenda in between. I think that is forgotten by some posters.

Reply to  hornblower
April 23, 2016 2:06 pm

I think that is ignored, not forgotten, by some posters.
It is useful for their agenda to try to drive out alternative views.
A sceptical website is as threatening to the American-Right-wing elite as it is to any other elite.

Reply to  hornblower
April 23, 2016 3:02 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with this. CAGW scepticism is independent of general political affiliation, and it is counter-productive to needlessly alienate people who might agree with us on CAGW but not on, say, healthcare or marijuana.

afonzarelli
Reply to  Michael Palmer
April 23, 2016 6:23 pm

Yeah, Michael, i always try to keep my mouth shut about my disdain for GMOs. (for the life of me, i can’t understand why people have a problem with people who don’t want scientists tinkering with the food that they eat…) Polarization is a problem. On the other hand, polarization is really what AGW is all about. The disagreement is not really about climate science, it’s about ideology IMNSHO*. So, in a sense, i like the polarization. Because that’s really what this whole thing is all about…
*in deference to some gripers on this page IMNSHO means “In My Not So Humble Opinion” (wink!)

Reply to  Michael Palmer
April 24, 2016 3:54 pm

afonzarelli – so the argument is not about the science, but only about the polarization, that is, the – argument? That is not only not right, it is not even wrong.

afonzarelli
Reply to  Michael Palmer
April 24, 2016 5:00 pm

Poorly articulated point on my part… (let’s see if i can give it a better shot) i think the whole climate change debate is largely about spin and not about any real quest for the truth. So, when i’m dealing with an agw believer, i’m mostly trying to cut through their spin-mastery. (now the best way to do that is use objective science, so in that sense i think it IS about the science) I think of the debate on the whole as a power verses power like Nietzsche experience and not a rational sort of discourse. i REALLY think that this is what we are dealing with, not any differences in scientific opinion…

Reply to  hornblower
April 24, 2016 2:14 am

hornblower,
There are some of us outside your political spectrum. For example, I am a Rothbard style radical libertarian. That means an anarcho-capitalist. (we get to disagree with everyone involved in the political process!)
:-p

JohnWho
April 23, 2016 12:41 pm

One small change I’d like to see is the “Recent Comments” section on the right be moved up higher in the right hand column.

April 23, 2016 12:47 pm

davidmhoffer
 
April 23, 2016 at 11:05 am
1. Get rid of threading.

I second that. There are ways and means of indicating who you are responding to, even if it is not right below the comment you are referring to as I have just done.
One reason for my viewpoint is that when I am done for the present time on a certain post, I will click and save the latest response I read and continue from there perhaps 4 hours later. But if someone makes a response to an earlier comment in the meantime, I will miss it unless I am really, really keen on a certain article and all comments and check through everything.
Granted, using “Ctrl F” is a big help. But if I know there were 49 responses on “april 19” before and later there are 50, I might have to go through 30 of them before I find the latest addition instead of seeing it right away.
As well, a person may ask a question, and 4 hours later another person may ask the same question. But 5 hours after the first question was asked, someone may answer it underneath the first person’s question. So unless the answer is repeated for the second person, that person may never realize the question had been answered.
As well, sometimes threads get incredibly long and one must scroll a long way up to find the last “reply”.

Reply to  Werner Brozek
April 23, 2016 12:52 pm

Perhaps having the replies in reverse order, with newest one on top

gary turner
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 1:25 pm

You mean read the answer then work your way down until you run into the question? No, thanks.
gary

Reply to  gary turner
April 23, 2016 1:37 pm

There is, of course, a simple solution [but WP will surely not go along – it is too good]:
If you keep threaded comments, put the newest thread on top.

Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 2:06 pm

If you keep threaded comments, put the newest thread on top.

Unless I am misunderstanding something, 10 different people can respond to 10 different threads in an hour. Does that mean the “newest thread” goes up and down like a yo-yo?

Reply to  Werner Brozek
April 23, 2016 2:16 pm

Yep, but the 10 threads will stay on top, but perhaps in a different order among them. In any event one will not have to scroll far to find one. All this is absolutely trivial to implement. Can be done in one page of code [in any language].

PiperPaul
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 3:04 pm

You mean read the answer then work your way down until you run into the question? No, thanks.
Why not? Isn’t that similar to how Climate$cience™ is done?

ossqss
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 23, 2016 7:57 pm

Quote feature with newest comment on top, IMHO, would be best.

JabbaTheCat
Reply to  lsvalgaard
April 24, 2016 11:08 am

Newest on top works fine in Disqus because the thread comments still display in historical order, not sure how WP would handle it…

Reply to  Werner Brozek
April 23, 2016 1:26 pm

I recall that when I first started reading here that most readers would copy/paste a name to show who they were talking to. such as…
————————————————————————————————————————————-
Werner Brozek
April 23, 2016 at 12:47 pm
=====================================================================
This makes it clear that my reply is aimed at you.

Jack Langdon
April 23, 2016 12:52 pm

It would be nice if there was a way to build a bridge to what Tony Heller is trying to say. I realize that there is a lack of mutual respect – but he is clearly on the skeptical side and is trying, in his own way, to help the cause.
Evidently, there is something “wrong” with the way he calculates or displays his rants on the quality of published temperature data. I don’t understand the technical issue that makes his stuff not interesting to the folks on this site. Don’t bother dumping in me – just an 81 year old “boy” trying to keep up.

Matheus Carvalho
April 23, 2016 12:56 pm

In some posts it is hard to follow the explanation. The authors sometimes could be more careful linking text and graphs. Please just double check if, when reading a text about a graph, it is perfectly clear what you are talking about. The formal format in most scientific journals (Fig. 1), always being mentioned in order of appearance, etc, actually would be a good example.
Except for that, the best website on the net by far. Keep up the good work.

charles nelson
April 23, 2016 1:10 pm

A Climate History page.
I’ve found that few things reassure worried Warmists more than historical evidence of past storms, tornados and floods etc. Easy access to such information would effortlessly puncture the claims of ‘the most intense storm/drought/flood etc etc etc.
And maybe also as Jack Langdon says above some authoritative data on ‘data manipulation’.
Although I believe that he is onto something, Steve Goddard’s occasional, whacky rants leave him vulnerable to debunking.
If WUWT was to publish ‘before and after’ charts from GISS etc, this would go a long way in constructing the case against them.

climatereason
Editor
Reply to  charles nelson
April 23, 2016 2:26 pm

Charles
As a historical climatologist I have been writing about climate history for years. The trouble is that much of history is dismissed as ‘ anecdotal’ as the fashion has moved on to computers and novel proxies rather than observations.
Tonyb

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  climatereason
April 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Tonyb,
And a fine writer of climate history you are. Thanks.
New readers should find Tony’s essays and enjoy.

Michael Carter
April 23, 2016 1:30 pm

Great site, thank you. Please keep the ratio of science topics vs politics at the high end of the scale. I agree with other posters hear that the petty mud-slinging degrades the site. It is a sad fact that if you focused purely on science your hits would probably drop by 75%

Bob
April 23, 2016 1:40 pm

As a long time reader of WUWT and other climate blogs, I find myself in an embarrassing situation. I don’t know how the often quoted temperature products are assembled.
For example, there are the satellite products that seem to be straight-forward readings from satellites. Then there are terrestrial products, and mixtures of satellite and terrestrial products.
I understand that in the case of the terrestrial based products, temperature readings are averaged on a per-grid-square basis. Fine.
Question: When the temps are averaged, is the time of day the temperature was measured taken into account? Is the resulting average a number that represents all readings taken over the entire planet, day and night? How about a reading taken at noon on none side of the earth at the exact moment another is taken at midnight on the other side of the earth? In other words what are the numbers being averaged?
Question: What are the differences between SST’s and land based thermometer readings? Can you just average the sea surface readings with the land readings without some sort of adjustments?
I have looked on the web for some help in answernig these questions. I don’t think they are magic, and somewhere, somebody has assembled the information I need. Can anyone on WUWT provide a couple of links to help me?

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Bob
April 23, 2016 3:19 pm

You ask for a lot. About 8 years ago this site, and others, were filled with the sorts of discussion you seek.
WUWT did a series of “how not to measure temperature” — just visible, obvious stuff.
A recent one here:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/17/how-not-to-measure-temperature-or-climate-change-96/
Here is a thread on “Time of Observation” (TOB) adjustments from 2007:
https://climateaudit.org/2007/09/24/tobs/
There are station dropouts, infilling, …, missing data, and questions about truth: Did stations in Siberia report lower temperatures as a ploy to get more fuel shipped to them? This stuff will give you a headache. How about measuring ocean temperature by flinging a bucket of the rail and hauling up some water? This stuff will give you a headache. Oh, I already said that.
Currently, over at Climate Audit
https://climateaudit.org/2016/04/19/gavin-schmidt-and-reference-period-trickery/
… read it all and you may get a sense of some of the newer issues.
I don’t think anyone has put all this together as you might like.

JMS
April 23, 2016 2:01 pm

I find that with some blog posts it is difficult to differentiate which text originates with the writer of the post and which is quoted text taken from another source. Some writers use the quote box style but in a lot of cases the text just runs one into the other and hence can be difficult to follow. Is there a solution for this?

Johann Wundersamer
April 23, 2016 2:04 pm

Marcus on April 23, 2016 at 12:07 pm
..Gotta work on that English Hans…… : )
lsvalgaard – comments counted / reversed order
____________________
native anglosaxons miss : with this host you’re talking to people world wide, independent of local topics / terms.
____________________
I get response on my side of the atlantic.
And you, be sure, are heard cross the pacific.
– don’t risk that –

John Coleman
April 23, 2016 2:07 pm

The commenters on this site are on-the-whole very intelligent and wonderful scientists. Their analysis often goes far beyond the content of the article. This great men and women teach me a great deal every day. Thank you.
Please do not confuse the well focused give and take discussions by allowing political and other off topic posts in the article comments section.
Perhaps every day or two you should post an article that reads simply “This is the anyone, anytime, any topic comments section for today. If you want to comment on your favorite topic, talk politics, argue about the issues of the day, this is the place. Have at it.” If I am totally bored, I will check it out to see what’s on the stove today. Otherwise, I can get on with life.
This is the sixth site on my wake up list each day. It comes well before Face Book and You Tube. lol

ossqss
Reply to  John Coleman
April 23, 2016 8:01 pm

Inquiring minds want to know 1-5 John? That has to be good!

April 23, 2016 2:07 pm

My first point of contact with WUWT is an RSS aggregator, so I would very much appreciate it if you could change your WordPress setting to allowed full (or at least fuller) summaries in the RSS feed. As it is now, there’s barely enough information in the feed content for me to decide whether or not to click through to read the rest of the article. Thanks.

Gary
April 23, 2016 2:37 pm

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse defends his attack on oil producers at http://www.providencejournal.com/opinion/20160423/sheldon-whitehouse-climate-change-is-like-tobacco-issue
Interestingly, the Providence Journal, a publication generally favorable to all sorts of Democrat shenanigans, defends the First Amendment right to speech uninhibited by government prosecution in a rebuttal at the end.
BTW, Tips & Notes is full and seems to have trouble updating with new comments.

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Beijing
April 23, 2016 2:39 pm

Hi Anthony
I am in China and most of the visuals are blocked. Not all, but ‘usually’. Is there a way for posted charts graphs and ‘etc’ to be stored automatically and re-linked? There are several countries in the region which block certain content by origin. WordPress isn’t on that list but YouTube is, for example.
I posted two links yesterday and one (to my surprise) showed as a pic and one remained a link.
It may be far beyond your control but it is frustrating to read a post by Bob Tisdale and not be able to see the charts which form the major content. Perhaps there is some neutral ground for the innocuous material.
Thanks for your devotion to this effort

Arbeegee
April 23, 2016 2:43 pm

Top Ten Anti-GW List Urgently Needed
I think one feature that is desperately required on WUWT is a prominently displayed button that leads directly to a top ten list of arguments against the Climate Change concept, designed to be easily employed by ordinary folks who wish to counter GW nonsense within their social circles and other opportunities. This also would have benefit to quickly orient WUWT newcomers who haven’t the time to search thousands of articles for core info.
Of course WUWT is an amazing treasure trove of good facts, figures and opinions but for everyday use it is actually quite overwhelming and impractical.
Even though I have followed WUWT for years, when faced with people parroting GW faith, my responses would be off the cuff, inefficient and certainly not prioritized or effective as they need to be.
Let me show you how my typical reply might go. Keep in mind, no one at a party or other social setting wants to hear a lecture. So one might have the opportunity to respond with maybe five arguments; ten if you are lucky and there is interest.
Right off the top of my head, I would begin with what I perceive to be the best and easiest anti-GW points to present and go from there. Clearly if we on the ground are to help as effective conduits of grassroots information, we need better concise information. Please help us out.
My suggestion is that a WUWT top ten list would be complete with a reference or two that could be later provided as certainly many a disbelieving Warmist may ask for sources. Also the list would be dynamic in the sense that it might change as new research and priorities come to light. But this doesn’t have to be a perfectly ranked list, just very useful.
My Inadequate Arguments:
1… Almost none of the fifty or so GW computer models agree or even reflect what is happening in the real world. They all wildly exaggerate the warming predictions yet this is what GW political policy has been based upon.
2… Two different satellite systems, calibrated with balloon readings all agree that there hasn’t been much warming over the past 18 years. Unlike ground temperature stations that are few and far between with limited coverage of the earth and susceptible to nearby heat sources , satellites cover most of the earth and take temperatures throughout the atmosphere multiple times per day.
3… GW theory is that CO2 traps in heat causing runaway heating of the Earth. Actual observations of CO2 and temperature supports no such thing.
4… The Antarctic ice cap is actually growing, not shrinking. Warmists would rather you didn’t know about that.
5… Hurricanes are at an all-time low. In fact there hasn’t been a hurricane making land on the USA since Obama became president. All against GW theory and prediction.
6… The Earth has always had long temperature fluctuations as comfortable Viking settlements in Greenland can attest.
7… Weather is not Global Warming nor Climate Change. For those who point to very mild winters in the North American North West, what do these same people have to say about the record low temps, snow, Great Lakes freeze-ups in the East?
At this point, I would expect that this is about all one could hope to say about Climate change in a social situation. But if the opportunity presented itself, I would continue:
8… The Climate Change science is certainly not settled, as new science including evidence for the existence of a temperature pause and many other climate phenomena, comes and goes.
9… That 97% of scientists believe in dangerous Global Warming is a proven fallacy. Even the man who first invented this concept agrees that these scientists cited never believed the observed warming is actually dangerous.
10… Almost every GW skeptic believes there has been global warming. Just not rampant and dangerous GW. No one argues that CO2 levels haven’t significantly increased and that this is not due to human influence.
11… The rise in CO2 has been responsible for spectacular increases in forests and plant life around the world that is having a beneficial effect on harvests and food production. For that same reason CO2 is routinely added to green houses and aquariums. So the CO2-curbing “Green” movement is actually and literally the opposite. CO2 is not a pollutant but a critical molecule of life.
12… Al Gore’s temperature “Hockey Stick,” that really started the GW movement, has been proven to the satisfaction of most analysts to be completely erroneous.
13… Global Warming is a trillion dollar industry with beholden countries – especially developing countries – and scientists and corporations all looking after their own self-interests.
Clumsy and inadequate. I say WUWT and its knowledgeable followers can provide people like myself with a much more effective set of arguments.

TonyL
Reply to  Arbeegee
April 23, 2016 3:30 pm

Your best Top 10 list is “The Skeptics Handbook” hosted by Jo Nova.
http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming-2/
Jo runs an outstanding site, many of us check over there often.

Arbeegee
Reply to  TonyL
April 24, 2016 12:32 am

Let me see. I’m at a gathering, someone mentions that climate change is going to doom us all, and I should pull out Skeptics Handbook I or Skeptics Handbook II? My other smart alecky response might be that perhaps WUWT needs a button to go to Jo Nova’s site and to the Skeptics Handbook where we might be able to distill the Skeptics Handbook into a top ten list? 😉 That said, I should take a look at it if it’s online.

Arbeegee
Reply to  TonyL
April 24, 2016 9:52 am

Hey TonyL, that reference is not bad. A lot of important points I wasn’t even aware about.
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/sh1/the_skeptics_handbook_2-3_lq.pdf
But I believe, to be complete, WUWT needs something similar, maybe with a few more optional points, but even more straightforward than what JoNova is offering.

David Schofield
April 23, 2016 2:44 pm

Clean tips and notes more often. Gets bloated. And keep up the good work.

Kent Noonan
Reply to  David Schofield
April 24, 2016 11:10 am

It would be a real help if Tips and Notes put most recent stuff at the top.

robert_g
Reply to  David Schofield
April 24, 2016 10:42 pm

I second both David and Kent’s recommendations. As of now (4/25/2016 1:29 am EDT) there are 2550 posts on “tips and notes.” It was last cleaned 10/2/2015. Posting in reverse chronological order would help, especially if “cleaning” is problematic.

JohnKnight
April 23, 2016 2:53 pm

Well, I mentioned this in passing on some thread a while back, but since you asked ; )
It can be confusing (not just to me apparently ; ) at times, which comment is in which column, and it seems to me it would be a good idea to at least try some small indicator(s) that would make it more obvious. I realize a “clean” look is desirable, but think something subtle could still be preferable to occasional misplaced comments.
What I would suggest be tried is a slight coloration of just the left side of just the middle column comment boxes, similar to the line around our name/time boxes. (The “loss” of space to a slight indentation that would then be needed to get the text away from that line could, I believe, be made up for by reducing the column offset, since the distinction would be more obvious due to that line. And the tertiary column could also then be moved over as well, and perhaps even end up a bit wider).

Reply to  JohnKnight
April 23, 2016 5:14 pm

Agreed; it’s hard for me to tell the hierarchy. JoNova does numbering that makes the commenting hierarchy clear. Personally, though, I prefer no threading; let commenters specify the comments to which they are responding.

Reply to  JohnKnight
April 23, 2016 8:59 pm

I use scotch tape at the top of my screen with column marks. Also one on the side so I can use the scroll bar to go where I left off last. The coloration would help.

April 23, 2016 3:04 pm

On the subject of comment threading: Does WP allow to make this a user-selectable option? Then we could all view the site as we like best.

Chris 4692
Reply to  Michael Palmer
April 24, 2016 8:33 pm

This. There are advantages each way. I could see entering with unthreaded comments, and switching to threaded on an interesting point.

u.k(us)
April 23, 2016 3:16 pm

“Nothing succeeds like success”.

rogerthesurf
April 23, 2016 3:17 pm

I know I mention this often, but I believe that UN Agenda 21 needs to be aired and discussed in every forum especially this one.
Agenda 21 and its under cover agencies ICLEI http://www.iclei.org/and UN Habitat http://unhabitat.org/ and maybe others I am not aware of is responsible for way that government agencies all of a sudden get “green”, long before any voters are even aware of it.
This, as I have pointed out before, is how the administration of my city have taken advantage of our devastating earthquakes and are attempting to make the city of Christchurch, NZ into an international exemplar of sustainability.
Some recent edicts include a 35 km/hr speed limit through the CBD in order to foster the use of bicycles, the deliberate diminishing of CBD parking in order to discourage motor vehicles.
The City Council has more than 100 official marked vehicles in its own parking lot. What is not clear to me is why the Mayor and her large staff as well as council staff can’t use bicycles and buses just like we are expected to. (And of course there is the Christchurch winter with its Antarctic southerly winds to deal with as well)
Well I have said enough, please visit my blog http://www.thedemisefchristchurch.com Please like/dislike and leave a message with your opinions.
Cheers
Roger
ps
Think UN Habitat is a beneficial organization? Check https://thedemiseofchristchurch.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/unitednations-conference-on-human-settlements_habitat1.pdf Section D. LAND. The red emphasis are mine.

Reply to  rogerthesurf
April 23, 2016 4:46 pm

A good source to find out about UN Agenda 21 is Rosa Koire. I won’t post my favorite video of hers as I have done in the past many times. She explains how it is being implemented locally in your towns and cities by ICLEI which is basically a United Nations brainchild. They are changing your zoning laws (among other things) by un-elected local officials.

rogerthesurf
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
April 23, 2016 9:12 pm

They are changing your zoning laws (among other things) by un-elected local officials. Well the city planners seem to have a lot of self discretion but the council is also trying to move people out of coastal areas citing a predicted 1 meter sea level rise by the turn of the century, (the current rate is 1.7mm/yr with no acceleration detected). However they have backed off on this at the moment because of public outrage, but to my mind they will be back when the fuss dies down. Not many citizens have realized this is AGW and Agenda21 etc. and think they can contradict this by using legal channels. To my mind it is very much a political issue, but what do you do when you are a greenie and your elected council wants your land in case it gets flooded?
Cheers
Roger
http://www.thedemiseofchristchurch.com

gnomish
Reply to  rogerthesurf
April 23, 2016 4:46 pm

once it’s been accepted that it’s proper to use laws (and taxes) for behavior modification rather than for the sole legitimate purpose of protecting rights, well- that slippery slope will never let you back up to the surface.

rogerthesurf
Reply to  rogerthesurf
April 23, 2016 9:14 pm

Sorry the link above should read http://www.thedemiseofchristchurch.com

TA
April 23, 2016 3:31 pm

The comments section is the most important part of the website. We get to read a scientific study, and then the experts on this website digest and dissect it. Just what we want. We want to hear about every little nuance.
I kind of like the way the comments work. There is not much time to carry on a lengthy conversation before the Topics scroll off the front page, but that might be a good thing, in that it keeps things focused on the topic at hand, and then moves on.
Off-topic posts do not seem to be a big problem, which is VERY good, and should be kept that way by the posters.
Spelling mistakes should be overlooked. Everyone does it. It doesn’t mean they don’t know how to spell that particular word, it just means they were probably in a hurry and overlooked the spelling error. I have no doubt you can figure out what the poster means even with the misspelled word.
I don’t use a spell checker, I figure I have a pretty good one in my head, but I occasionally misspell a word. In my case, I almost always recall that I misspelled a word, but the recall takes place hours after I have made it. I guess the mistake just hangs in my subconscious for a while and then works its way to awareness.
And this comment below, I find interesting:
climatereason
April 23, 2016 at 2:16 pm wrote:
“Lee
That raises the interesting proposition that commenters could make predictions for a particular season but would have to give reasons for making that prediction and what area it covers.”
I would be very interested in a dedicated section that relates to current weather. This would seem to fit right in with WUWT. After all we are discussing weather, future weather, and I think we should have a place to discuss current weather.
Here’s my contribution to the current weather section: It looks like Oklahoma is in the bullseye for severe weather come about Tuesday. The jet stream is lining up to concentrate its energy right in my neighborhood. I may get nasty.
Weather forcasters should display the jet streams on their weathercasts (most don’t). Without knowledge of the jet streams, you cannot fully understand what is happening with the weather.
Commenting on posts does not work well here if you want to carry on long conversations about a particular subject. If you want something like that, there is dedicated website chat software that could be used, or WUWT could establish a moderated USENET newsgroup where these subjects could be discussed as much as desired.
I would hesitate to change the WUWT website with chat software, but USENET would work perfectly for that purpose, as long as every one knew where to go. And with moderated newsgroups, one can control who has access to post, so you can elimnate a lot of trolls. It does take time and effort though.
WUWT is a great website. Lots of intelligent conversation. No downside, unless you are an Alarmist. 🙂 You really don’t have to change a thing to keep me coming back.

gnomish
Reply to  TA
April 23, 2016 4:24 pm

why usenet as opposed to irc, for instance?
don’t you have to pay for usenet access?

TA
Reply to  gnomish
April 24, 2016 5:53 am

You can find free providers of USENET feeds, although many of those only carry the text messages, not the binaries. Most internet service providers give you access to USENET.

TA
Reply to  gnomish
April 24, 2016 8:49 am

“why usenet as opposed to irc, for instance?”
Have you ever heard of an offended hacker kicking someone off IRC?
Hackers can’t kick people out of USENET discussion newsgroups.

Frank Kotler
Reply to  TA
April 23, 2016 6:36 pm

As a moderator of a moderated USENET group, I would advise against moderation for a USENET group. Agree otherwise… especially “don’t change a thing…”

TA
Reply to  Frank Kotler
April 24, 2016 6:50 am

You do have to agree that USENET is an excellent discussion format, I would think.
With USENET software you can see at a glance all the new messages posted since the last time you read the thread, and you can tell if any address you specifically. This allows conversations to go on for a very long time without having to reread the entire thing every time you pull it up.
There is some website software that mimics USENET fairly well, although not as good as USENET software, IMO, but it would take a lot of effort to set up either type of discussion.
Leave well enough alone, is probably the best policy for now. 🙂

TA
April 23, 2016 3:34 pm

“it” may get nasty. not me. 🙂
I do know how to spell “it”, I just got in a hurry.

benben
April 23, 2016 3:50 pm

Great thread. I’d like to have a bit less of the very impolite type of responses that non climate skeptics have to deal with when they dare to comment on something here.
And in general I’ve been noticing a lot of fascism/ww2/gulags/etc. references making the rounds. That really should not be happening.
Cheers!
Ben

Reply to  benben
April 23, 2016 6:13 pm

You are right benben. I have formed the impression that there is a faction among commenters who are attracted to climate scepticism, not so much because they have looked at the science and evolved a sceptical viewpoint, but because (a) it accords with their political or religious worldview or (b) they are offended by the “green-left” political outlook espoused by global warmers (in many cases, probably both). These commenters often use gross insults which are out of place in what is primarily a scientific forum. And I’ve noted a couple of comments that got past the mods, that made me realise there’s a few real bigots on this side of the fence. What can you do? Climate change has become political and politics makes for strange bedfellows.
OTOH humour is a very effective way of making points, and it’s done very well by quite a few of the commenters. as well as the authors of many of the posts. Fact is, from where most sceptics stand (actually where most well-informed people stand), a good deal of the material turned out by aspiring climate scientists is so ill-considered and so out of touch with common sense and common scientific knowledge that ridicule is the only valid way of commenting on it. For example, that thing a week or so ago about digging up ecosystems and moving them so that they can withstand climate change. One forms the impression that climate change is a bandwagon that attracts a lot of amateurs, many of whom don’t seem to be smart enough to have actually studied the issues and drawn conclusions of their own. Anthony does a great job of finding the most ridiculous contributions to climate science, for which I’m grateful.

TA
Reply to  Smart Rock
April 24, 2016 5:56 am

“Climate change has become political and politics makes for strange bedfellows.”
Exactly right.

benben
Reply to  Smart Rock
April 25, 2016 11:18 am

Hey Smart Rock,
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I’m also primarily here for the funny climate news. I’m working in a related field myself and I find it quite enlightening to see some of the stupid shit my colleagues come up with.
That being said, I think there is a large amount of confirmation bias going on here; if you read only WUWT you’d get the idea that environmental sciences is full of nutjubs, while most of the work is just decent but boring and therefore never makes it beyond scientific journals, let alone to a blog like this one.
Cheers,
Ben

Reply to  benben
April 23, 2016 6:29 pm

benben sez:
“…responses that non climate skeptics have to deal with…”
Forget your feelings for a moment, benben, and think for a change: a “non skeptic” is a non-scientist. The terms are mutually contradictory.
That’s the difference between scientists and climate alarmists. If you can’t see the difference, no wonder you’re confused.

afonzarelli
Reply to  dbstealey
April 23, 2016 7:10 pm

Yes, Stealey, i’ve always noticed a big difference between “believers” and “skeptics”… It seems to me that believers are more often than not marching in lock step with one another. Skeptics, on the other hand, oft have a hard time agreeing on anything. I’m generalizing here a bit, of course, but it does seem to me that skeptics are much less rigid in their thinking…

TA
Reply to  benben
April 24, 2016 6:53 am

benben wrote: “And in general I’ve been noticing a lot of fascism/ww2/gulags/etc. references making the rounds.”
Really? I hadn’t noticed. Could you be more specific?