Are We Chasing Imaginary Numbers?

Guest Essay by Kip Hansen

 i_gsl

 Spoiler Alert: This essay is not about the mathematical entity the imaginary number. I do think that an essay here about imaginary numbers of that sort would be interesting, but this isn’t going to be it. This essay, while not about the usual fare seen here – AGW; CAGW; Catastrophic Climate Change; Global Cooling; various oxides of carbon; the pH, level, or surface temperature of oceans; or the antics or ethics (or lack of ethics) of various international scientists and politicians — will hopefully be interesting to the majority of readers. It will ask more questions than it answers.

Last Saturday, 3 October 2015, WUWT’s indefatigable Willis Eschenbach published a guest essay regarding an NPR radio report by Ira Flatow that labelled “some recent pictures of flooding in Miami, Florida, as evidence that climate change is real and is already affecting Florida.” In response to a comment I made to that essay, Willis asked this very interesting question:

“…as you say, we can measure sea level with a “high degree of accuracy” … so are we measuring an imaginary thing? And if we average those highly accurate measurements, why would we not get a global average sea level? What am I missing here?”

In science, asking the Right Question is often, maybe always, more important than having the Right Answer. Let’s look at Willis’s questions and see what we can find out about the world and the world of science.

What are the questions here?

  1. Can we measure sea level with “a high degree of accuracy”?
  2. Are we measuring an imaginary thing (when we do so)?
  3. If we average those highly accurate measurements, why would we not get a global average sea level?
  4. What am I [we] missing here?

It is my idea here to ask a more generalized question — what are we measuring in Climate Science and are we measuring an imaginary thing when we do so? — but we can use “sea level” as the thought experiment example.

Let me address the first question first: Is it really possible to measure something like sea level (or surface air temperature 2 meters above the ground or sea surface temperature) with “a high degree of accuracy”?

When I stated in my original comment that we had been measuring sea level with a high degree of accuracy for years, I meant that we knew what sea level could be expected at various places at future times and had an idea what a more generalized “global sea level” might be and what changes had been seen over longer time periods like the last century or so. But for our thought experiment in this essay, let’s define “high degree of accuracy” as the commonly mentioned “annual anomaly” in the scientific literature. For “global average sea level” this is in single digit millimeters, usually 1.7/1.8 up to 3.4 mm per year, somewhere in that range. (For those thinking along on other paths, that might be tenths and hundredths of a degree Centigrade for global average surface air temperature and sea surface temperature, and even smaller, thousandths of a degree C for ocean water temperatures leading to a calculation of ocean heat content.)

Before we get very far, let’s ask “Why do we [they] want to measure global sea level?” The major reason seems to be, in our politicized world of global warming politics, that many want to measure global sea level to show that it is rising (which it has been for quite some time, at least the last 20,000 years) and that this continuing rise is 1) dangerous and 2) due to recent surface temperature rise over the last century, thus 3) due to Global Warming.   The theme is to use sea level rise as a proof of increased thermal expansion of the water in the oceans and increased addition of water from melting land ice deposits, both asserted to be the result of Global Warming caused by increased atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, primarily CO2, since the 1880s . We’ll see later in this essay that this is part of a larger modern scientific movement to produce “single numbers” to represent dynamic systems (some of which are properly known to be nonlinear dynamical systems).

Can we measure sea level to that (+/- 3 to 4 mm) degree of accuracy? Well, for sea level, even at a single precise location, the answer is “No, we can not.” Now, I am not trying to be provocative here, it is a simple matter of fact. If the sea would be so kind as to stand still, even for just a few moments, we could get in a very accurate measurement at a single spot, or even a lot of spots.   Alas, the sea is never still, it is always moving up and/or down: tides, currents, wind chop, waves, wakes of passing vessels, rising and falling air pressure and, in most important locations, all of those at once. Thus, we cannot physically do it; the sea does not stand still long enough for us to make this measurement to that degree of accuracy. This gets only worse when we add in the information that both the dry land itself and the bottoms of the oceans, almost everywhere, are also in vertical motion and busy changing the volume of the ocean basins.

Many will protest: “Look here, Mr. Hansen. You can’t say that. There are scads of very scientific tables, charts, and journal articles very carefully telling us that now only can we make that measurement, we have been doing so for much of human history and [drum roll, please] since 1992 with [gasp!] satellites!”

It is my point here that what we are doing, where the doing is done, is not measurement, but derivation. Many measurements are taken, in many and diverse locations, at many and diverse times. In some cases, there are nearly continuous time series of measurements for particular locations. From these numerous individual measurements, for example, the tide station reports from the Battery in New York City, an interesting (but not to be detailed here) formula is applied to derive a figure, a single number, that represents the average difference between the sea surface and a geodetic bench mark (set in the bedrock of Manhattan Island years ago) over some period of time. We will skip the nearly infinite details as to whether the derived number represents a simple average between highs and lows, or is an average against time.

Let me point out that the NOAA CO-OPS system of tide stations has a very important and pragmatic purpose. Ships and boats need to know the depth of the water they will find in a particular spot – at a dock on the Hudson River or over the sand bar across the inlet – and at a particular time. Thus, tide tables are very important to sea going commerce and recreational boaters. It answers important questions such as: “Can I get there without hitting those nasty rocks (or going aground on that sticky mud) on the bottom? Can I stay here without being set down by the tide on those rocks or mud?” This system was never designed to measure “sea level rise” nevertheless it is used to compute changes in relative sea level trends in ports of American interest. Here are two Wiki articles on sea level: here and here. In the second article, this image is shown:

gslr

Notice please the difference between the trend calculated from tide gauges (orange line with grey error range) and the blue satellite measurements. Tide Gauge data (which measures Relative Sea Level at each tide gauge) accelerates while satellite data, which measures absolute sea level, keeps to its century long trend.

But what of those marvelous satellites? The official NOAA claim is: ”A series of satellite missions that started with TOPEX/Poseidon (T/P) in 1992 and continued with Jason-1 (2001–2013) and Jason-2 (2008–present) estimate global mean sea level every 10 days with an uncertainty of 3–4 mm.”    Results can be seen on graphical form at NOAA’s Laboratory for Satellite Altimetry web site. It is interesting to see the difference in visual impact that results from the use of alternate coloring schemes and to observe the lumpiness of the oceans.

slr_colors

I know many of the readers here are familiar with the sea – Willis and I have each spent a hefty fraction of our lives living on the sea, and an ever greater fraction living at the edge of the seas. Three to four millimeters is between 0.12 and 0.16 of an inch – about the thickness of two American pennies stacked atop one another. Or, for our cousins in the United Kingdom, about as thick as a one pound coin. It is a rare and beautiful and awe inspiring sight to see the ocean smooth as glass to the horizon, or even just across the bay or harbor. In my one-third of a lifetime of living on the sea (totaling > 20 years), I have only occasionally seen the sea so smooth – the slightest breezes bring up wind ripples and chop that far exceeds 3-4 mm, and can build quickly to feet and meters. If a body of water is open to the ocean, undulating ocean swells march from one horizon to the other, swells also measured in multiple feet or meters, and not necessarily traveling in the same direction as the wind chop. This all adds up to a great deal of vertical motion of the sea’s surface – at times exhilarating and at times downright frightening.

Now if NOAA wants to claim that their satellites in their perfect orbits can somehow transmogrify the undulating, rising and falling, uneven surface of the Earth’s ocean to a resolution of +/- 3 to 4 mm, then very well. Who am I to say they can’t, even if I can’t imagine how they might even theoretically do so. Nonetheless, for our purpose here, let us make this distinction: they do not measure “global mean sea level every 10 days” – they don’t even claim to, their claim is that they estimate it. In every real pragmatic sense, they somehow derive a single number from a fabulously massive amount of data – data which in and of themselves are not direct measurements, but inferences of measurements made from other kinds of data.

Let’s quit fooling around. While it would be possible to measure sea level in individual locations, it is difficult and even when done it is not a true measurement, but a derivation from accumulated data and dependent on mathematical and statistical methods and definitions. If you ever find a particular section of sea at “sea level”, it will be totally momentary and accidental.

Sea Level, even “Sea Level at the Battery in New York”, is not properly represented by a single number, above and below some geodetic bench mark. What we call sea level is a derived, calculated number – an average of averages of an array of measurement time series. In this sense, as the calculated mid-point of a range over time, it is, in a practical sense, an imaginary number having no existence in the day-to-day life of the Port of New York.

There is, however, a pragmatic “sea level at the Battery in New York” – which itself is a predictable range above and below some depth of water at a certain point (a point referred to as Local Mean Sea Level) which, when modified by information of expected, predicted tides, can be extrapolated to other points in the harbor, which is useful for mariners despite its less-than-real aspect. It can be used in its gross form (fractions of feet or meters) to determine the depth of water over the bottom at a place and time important to a ship’s captain and crew. Here is the prediction of water levels, relative to MLLW, made for October 9th thru October 11th.

Tides_the_Battery

The bottom line is that sea level, anywhere and at any time, is not a direct measurement. Never. It is a calculated, derived number that represents a precisely defined, but actually quite complicated, idea.

In order to define global sea level, one must participate in an exercise of imagination along the lines of: Imagine that the planet has stopped spinning; that moon has never existed; that the planet is a perfect sphere (or perfectly regular ovoid or flattened sphere); that there is no wind; that the atmosphere is evenly distributed and air pressure is the same at all points; that the temperatures of the seas are all exactly even, everywhere, to all depths; that there are no currents;, that there are no ice caps; that the rivers have stopped flowing into the sea and that gravity is magically equal at all points on the Earth’s surface (it is not, btw): under those conditions, we could then say that global sea level would be precisely “there”, within 3 or 4 mm. My friends, this is what makes Global Average Sea Level, in this special sense, an imaginary number.

So, we have answered Question 2: Are we measuring an imaginary thing (when we do so)?  Yes, we are “measuring”, in a sense, an imaginary thing when we say we are measuring sea level. The resulting calculated, derived number is a creature of our imaginations, an imaginary number.

Question 3 almost answers itself. “If we average those highly accurate measurements, why would we not get a global average sea level?” One can carry out a dizzying number of statistical and mathematical steps and arrive at some number – the more division steps involved the more precise looking the number will be. One can average any set of numbers. In this case, will one arrive at a number that is the “global average sea level”? Let’s look at Question 4 first and come back to this.

Question 4 is “What am we [originally “I”] missing here?”

This is a question of logic, and kind of follows on from an earlier essay I published here in February regarding Uncertainty Ranges.   When one averages a series of numbers that are in reality themselves ranges, then the result must also be a range. In our case today, when averaging a series (or in this case, a computer-full) of imaginary numbers then the result must be another imaginary number, in the same sense as the numbers in the original data set.   You can not average away original measurement error, you can not average away the fact that data given are themselves really ranges rather than single numbers, you can not average away the fact that original numbers themselves are, in the sense discussed here today, imaginary.

Before we too far afield here, let’s try to be clear on what the distinction is between a real number and what I have been calling here an imaginary number. This discussion takes place in the context of the measurement of characteristics of the physical world. For the result of a measurement to be a real number, the thing being measured must itself be measurable and the numerical result representing that measurement must represent something that exists in some meaningful and useful sense. However, the result of a measurement of a thing that itself is not physically measurable, but which can only be derived mathematically based on a definition that itself is an object of our imaginations (not something actually found in the real world), then that result should itself be considered, in this special sense, imaginary as well, despite its seeming precision.

There are innumerable averages of things that can be derived and calculated. Despite that, many of those averages are themselves imaginary, and their meaning and usefulness must always be thoughtfully considered. Such imaginary numbers may have some interesting meaning and some pragmatic usefulness but great care must be taken with their application, because, after all, they are imaginary and do not exist in reality.

Thus the average height of American citizens can be useful in determining the sizes of beds sold to Americans, at least indicating a range to be considered, it would be foolish to declare it the proper height of doorways for all new construction, even with an inch to spare tacked on, or to make exaggerated, scary, claims about public health threats based on the tiniest changes in such a number over some narrowly-selected time period.

Worse yet, and I hope there will be some comments in support of at least this idea, simple averages of averages of averages (all of which start with averaged, imaginary, derived numbers rather than actual measurements) are abominable absurdities. [ref: Simpson’s Paradox, etc.]

Here’s a ridiculous example: If we calculated the average altitude of the land in the state of South Carolina, first averaging the altitude of each county, then averaging the altitude of multi-county regions, and finally averaging regional altitudes, the result would be a number like (a totally pulled-out-of-the-air guess) 125 feet above sea level and when trended from the highest point in the Blue Ridge Mountains to the sea the state could be said to have a slope of XX feet per mile. It makes no difference in this sense if we weight the averages, krig the missing points, homogenize or smooth or smear. This procedure calculates and/or derives an imaginary number in the special sense of our working definition here. Thus, with our magic new imaginary number, it might be claimed that while some areas of South Carolina could be flooded by extreme high tides simultaneous with two feet of rain, on average the people there would not be prone to disaster as even the few expected flooded areas would quickly drain into the Atlantic.  Applying such a totally mathematically correct yet imaginary number to the real world can result it wildly inappropriate conclusions. It was this type of logic powered by imaginary numbers that led a New York Times science journalist to erroneously claim that the global sea level rise caused by global warming (a real rise but an imaginary number) caused increased damages to New York City during Hurricane Sandy — the same error Ira Flatow made in the NPR segment about flooding in Miami, where the flooding referred to occurs at a spot that is below the long-term Mean High Tide, and was so when the street was constructed.

Now, coming back to Question 3:  “If we average those highly accurate measurements, why would we not get a global average sea level?” If we average the very large data set of imaginary numbers for a specific moment in time, we will arrive at a new, even more imaginary, single number that could be called, if everyone were willing to allow it, “global average sea level”.   Would it be pragmatically, practically, meaningful and useful? Maybe, but in a very limited sense…and we would have to be very careful as to what meaning we assigned to it.

Why? See my essay last year about Hurricane Sandy and damages to NY City. The purported sea level rise for the 50 year period 1960 – 2010 “caused by global warming driven sea level rise” should have been 4 inches (roughly half of the 8 inches over the last century). In actuality, only when we use the lowest estimate of subsidence for the Battery couple with the highest estimate of local relative sea level change do we see any positive contribution of absolute, global sea level change to the relative sea level at the Battery, the 0.59 inches in the upper right-hand corner:

Battery_RSL

What’s up here? The acknowledged century-long estimated global sea level rise did not show up at the Battery, not even over the most recent 50 year period. This should not surprise us – attempts to apply a single-number, “global sea level rise”, is ill-thought out – trying to apply an imaginary number to a specific real situation.

Today’s discussion is one way of looking at the current trend in Science in which attempts are made to reduce very complicated dynamic systems to a single number which can then be graphed against time, usually in attempts to do one or more of the following:

  1. to cast blame for the increasing or decreasing number on a substance or action or group, usually incorrectly
  2. using two such graphs of single numbers to correlate some single number with some other single number to sell a desired story, usually to cast blame or give credit, usually incorrectly
  3. to bring attention to [read this as: to cause public concern or worry about] some rising or falling single number in hopes of generating gain [in research funds, fame, public sympathy, public or political support], usually unwarranted

These single numbers, meant to somehow illuminate some feature of the real world, are often, maybe almost always, not real numbers representing real things, but imaginary numbers representing concepts that exist, on a pragmatic practical level, only in our imaginations, which may lack meaningfulness and usefulness, or both. In this special sense, we can rightly refer to them as imaginary numbers. And because they are almost never acknowledged as imaginary numbers which require special care in application, each of the three uses above is followed by “usually incorrectly” or “usually unwarranted”.

 

Now, even if you don’t agree with me, it should be interesting to discuss in comments some of the ongoing efforts to [mis-] use this special breed of derived number, the imaginary number, to sway public opinion in differing scientific fields around the world. I’d really like to hear your views and benefit from your experience.

# # # # #

Author’s Comment Policy: This essay is not really about global sea level, but I doubt we’ll be able to discuss it without also touching on the issues surrounding the issue of global mean sea level. I do know something about it and will try to answer questions.

I’d rather discuss the concept of “Are we chasing imaginary numbers?”

It’s just an idea…let’s talk about it.

# # # # #

 

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Janice the Elder
October 10, 2015 6:35 am

Perhaps we are trying to measure sea level at the wrong side of the ocean. Rather than trying to measure the level at the top of the ocean, where there all sorts of interferences, it would seem to make more sense to measure sea level from the bottom of the ocean. I’m probably making this way too simplistic. But it seems that a pressure measurement device, perhaps located in a few hundred feet of depth (staying on the Continental Shelf), could give a smoother data measurement for that particular location, than any measurement attempted at the surface. Nothing is going to be perfect, of course.

Reply to  Janice the Elder
October 10, 2015 6:57 am

alternatively set of large pipes and enclosed air tight chambers would create a low pass filter, simple to calculate, design and build to smooth out temporarily variability up to and including two daily tides.

Reply to  vukcevic
October 10, 2015 10:08 am

A mechanical filter (pipes and chambers) to filter to 1 to 10 seconds is not too big. 40,000 to 80,000 seconds (~12 to ~24 hours) gets quite large.

Neil Jordan
Reply to  vukcevic
October 10, 2015 10:08 am

What you describe is the “stilling well”, used for decades for stream and tide gaging.
http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/foundations/tides/welcome.html
http://nd.water.usgs.gov/gage/how.html
The NOAA site describes how tide (sea level) has been measured. The earliest example from NOAA is 1807, but some European sites have data going back to the 1700s. Note that the data (real data) in the form of field notes and paper charts with all their random and systematic errors are the foundation. Whether or not modern measurements can measure +/- the top atomic monolayer of the ocean, modern measurements must still be compared to historic measurements with their higher and probably more realistic errors.

Reply to  vukcevic
October 10, 2015 10:11 am

The speed of sound in water is ~4,000 ft/second. ~1,000 m/sec.

Reply to  Janice the Elder
October 10, 2015 7:19 am

Was done by Martin Hovland here.. Results not better than +/- 50 mm…

Janice the Elder
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
October 10, 2015 7:59 am

Thanks, Ferdinand. I missed that comment by Martin, and it is a good one. Perhaps +/- 50 mm is the true error bar? Which means that, even with our modern equipment, we will never know the actual sea level closer than plus/minus 2 inches. That sounds about right, considering all the factors that can affect sea level throughout the world.

David L. Hagen
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
October 10, 2015 8:17 am

Ferdinand & Janice See below for nanometer resolution – the issue is absolute accuracy. or relative calibration.

Mike McMillan
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
October 10, 2015 8:57 am

Bottom pressure recorders have been in use for quite a while, and much better than ±50 mm
http://nctr.pmel.noaa.gov/eble1991.html

Billy Liar
Reply to  Ferdinand Engelbeen
October 10, 2015 3:08 pm

Mike McMillan and David Hagen,
If you look at the NOAA reference you will see that phenomenal resolution will not do any good. The bottom pressure wanders over time 10’s of hPa (millibars) both randomly and cyclically.

VikingExplorer
October 10, 2015 7:11 am

>> transmogrify
Love the reference!
>> Imaginary
From an EE & SwEng POV, I think “Abstract” would be a more appropriate term. Imaginary implies fictional, while “Abstract” implies conceptual and no instance of and dependent on strict definition.
Excellent article.

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  VikingExplorer
October 10, 2015 9:50 am

Statisticians should develop a massage metric which simply counts the number of arithmetic operations applied to these imaginary/fictional/abstract/etc. numbers. That would give us a feel for the amount of massaging that takes place – until the AGW climatologists figure out ways to obfuscate that as well.

troe
October 10, 2015 7:21 am

Can we find common ground among scientists to launch a”reproducability project” like the one in Behavioural Science.
We have a great beginning in Climate Audit. Is this a valid approach.

October 10, 2015 7:26 am

Why do I feel like I’m being experimented upon? Don’t answer that Kip, it is a rhetorical question. Imaginary numbers that are very important! You do straw-man much, me thinks Kip?

October 10, 2015 7:36 am

When in college in 1973 I took a course on Statics and Dynamics. Showed up to the class with my trusty slide rule and the required text book. One of the first things the professor said in his introduction was that “The department has decided that the use of the digital calculator is acceptable for all courses in the engineering department.” (not a direct quote) Immediately bought one. However, by the third week I noticed that my calculations did not agree with the answers in the book. I was spending hours recalculating the problems. Learned quickly that every one that did not agree with the book came out perfect on the slide rule.
I also have had the same problem as someone above said in trying to calibrate the instrument measuring the level of a material in a tank. The new digital displays indicates a level with 2 and 3 digits after the decimal point on a tank containing 100,000 gallons. Meaningless, GARBAGE. everything after the decimal point is in parts per million. 1 part in a million accuracy from off the shelf commercial grade equipment – B/S – not possible. Even the manufacturer only claims 1% accuracy meaning the measured value is 100,???.? Now read the Accuracy statement on an instrument. Everyone I have ever specked out states = 1% of FULL RANGE, between 20% and 80% of full range (or something like that.) Calculate the accuracy required to measure the top of the ocean from a satellite from space and indicate it in mm, cm, or even meters.

Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 8:00 am

Kip, it’s apparent that the root of your problem is your inability to understand a fundamental idea in math (limits) used as a basis for Calculus. Lets take your example of South Carolina and simplify it. Imagine you build a sandbox in your back yard for your children to play in. Say it measures six feet on a side, and the side boards enclosing it are eight inches high. You fill it with sand and your children play in it. Now one of your children is very inquisitive and asks you how much sand did you put in the sand box? You look at the sandbox and see that the surface of the sand is not smooth, but has many hills and valleys, footprints and maybe a constructed sand castle.
..
Of course you could smooth out the surface then measure it’s depth, and get the answer to the question. Is that measurement you get after smoothing an “imaginary number?”
..
Now, try to make that same measurement without smoothing out all of the sand in the box. You could lay out a grid, and take a depth measurement in the center of each grid square,. then average out the measurements to find out how much sand is in the box. Is that “average” now an imaginary number?
..
But….hold on……we all know that the smaller the grid squares, the more “accurate” our measure is right?
..
so you shrink the grid size, and increase the number of grid squares, and aren’t you getting a more accurate “imaginary number?”

In math, they define the limit of a function with the delta-epsilon argument. Roughly speaking, for any given accuracy you wish, you can specify a grid size that will provide the accuracy.

Now, your complaint about “imaginary” numbers is specifically due to the fact that no matter how small the grid is, you’ll never get an exact measure. The logic of math says that as the grid size shrinks, the measure approaches the limit

SO…..yes, the “imaginary” number you get is the volume of sand in the sandbox. There is a real value to that volume, but alas, no matter how precise your ruler, the measure is “imaginary.” No matter how small your grid size, again, it never is small enough.

But, as you well know, derivatives and integrals are widely used, and you are free to call their results “imaginary” if you choose, but I would think you could find a better term.

Steve Jones
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 8:30 am

PS Kip, when you post “Well, for sea level, even at a single precise location, the answer is “No, we can not.” you obviously think that you cannot measure the “area under a curve”

If you plot the time series of measurements, you get a squiggly line representing your measurements. If you divide the area under that curve, by the length of time, you get the AVERAGE.

Need more accuracy for the measurement? Increase the length of the interval. You get more accuracy with the same instrument.

Steve Jones
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 11:06 am

I haven’t missed the point. The mere fact you consider my response “too mathy” means a lot. It means you don’t have a very good grounding in simple mathematics. I did try to keep the level of it toned down so that you could comprehend it. Pragmatically, the ideas of averages, std deviations, distributions and probability abound in the sciences. Rejecting these ideas when it comes to observations of our environment seems to be your problem .

Steve Jones
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 2:21 pm

The evidence of significant changes in sea level are everywhere to be found. We know it changes over geologic time. I suggest you consult a geologist for a rendition of the evidence, and dispense with your armature attempt at the “philosophy” of scientific measurement. The men and women out there in the field, doing the grunt work of taking these measurements and publishing the results are doing a heck of a lot more for the advancement of science, than a person like you that sits at a keyboard and produces pointless negative comments on the results of their work.

Dave in Canmore
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 12:38 pm

I would suggest your analogy doesn’t represent the problem here. In your example, there exists a discrete value for the amount of sand in the sandbox. That volume has a meaning regardless of how it is arranged. Your example shows how to calculate it. More relevant to the discussion would be to ask what is the height of sand in the sandbox. The answer is more complicated now and any discrete value bears little resemblance to the actual sandbox in question.

Steve Jones
Reply to  Dave in Canmore
October 10, 2015 12:49 pm

It is a perfect analogy especially with regard to the “average” height above sea level for South Carolina. It would analogous to finding out what the volume of South Carolina is that sits above sea level.

Mark Silbert
October 10, 2015 8:05 am

Kip Hansen,
Thanks for a very well written thought provoking essay. You really put the entire CAGW nonsense in perspective. Those nitpicking your use of the term “imaginary number” are missing the bigger points.

David L. Hagen
October 10, 2015 8:13 am

Nano-resolution (parts per billion) ocean depth sea level measurement
Janice the Elder and Kim Hansen
Sea level is already being measured from the bottom of the ocean using highly accurate pressure sensors.
See Nano-Resolution (parts-per-billion) Oceanic and Atmospheric Pressure Sensors
The Digiquartz sensors have a resolution of 0.001 mm (1 micrometer).
Digiquartz Nano-Resolution Update April 29, 2011

The 1400-meter depth sensor has a full scale of 2000 psia. The deployed depth is near 900 meters, or 1300 psia. The recorded data is in units of psia. The static pressure scales as P = ρ g h (density, gravity, height). Normally, the preferred metric pressure unit is Pascal (full scale of the sensor is 14 MPa and the pressure at the deployed location is 9 MPa). The sensor self-noise is expected to be near -180 dB or 0.009 Pa (in the time-domain near 1 Hz). Since the NOAA group was until now primarily interested in tsunami waves, their preferred unit is mm of water. The conversion is 1 mm ≈10 Pa.

Some major issues need to be addressed:
Uncertainty Analysis including Type A and Type B uncertainties
e.g., Resolution, Accuracy, Spatial averaging and Temporal averaging
While resolution is ppb, accuracy is of the order of 3E-5 (0.003%)
Uncertainty Analysis
Please study uncertainty analysis using the BMIP GUM, and NIST TN1297, especially about Type B errors. The GUM Intro states:

4.6 Knowledge about an input quantity Xi is inferred from repeated indication values (Type A evaluation of uncertainty) [JCGM 100:2008 (GUM) 4.2, JCGM 200:2008 (VIM) 2.28], or scientific judgement or other information concerning the possible values of the quantity (Type B evaluation of uncertainty) [JCGM 100:2008 (GUM) 4.3, JCGM 200:2008 (VIM) 2.29].

Similarly see NIST Evaluating uncertainty components: Type B

Reply to  David L. Hagen
October 10, 2015 11:33 am

I also question how they are compensating for the weight of the atmosphere above the column of water this instrument is measuring?
How do the compensate for the change/variation in temperature and the effect that has on density throughout the height of the column of water?
How do the compensate for the change/variation in salinity and the effect that has on density throughout the height of the column of water?
How do they compensate for the change in density due to the compression due to the weight of the water and atmosphere above each mm of water all the way down to the bottom?
How do they compensate for known/unknown currents upwelling/down-welling on the column of water?
Having made the calculations to determine the calibration curve for the level instruments on a boiling water pressure steam generator operating at about 600# pressure and about half water half steam with both water and steam flow, the problem they face is a little more complicated than they think. Then they need to consider that they are trying to get precession out to the 8th, 9th, 10th place in a system measuring over 10,000 pounds. ain’t going to work, but it will give them more “imaginary” numbers that “trend,” assuming they make all of the obvious compensations.

David L. Hagen
Reply to  usurbrain
October 10, 2015 12:12 pm

Pressure Uncertainty Analyses
I agree that those are some of the issues that need to be addressed in the applications in addition to the uncertainties arising from pressure gauge lab tested accuracy. The uncertainty in calibration by the NIST is a fundamental limit between the official “accuracy” of 1E4 and the reproducibility of 1E9. See NIST Metrology School – Pressure calibration presentation.
Yet also look at the amazing stability and resolution of the Digiquartz pressure sensors at the ppb level.

long-term stability test of three Digiquartz barometers. Measurements on these instruments indicate that the median drift rate of the units tested is – 0.007 hPa (-0.0002 inHg or 7 parts-per-million) per year over the nineteen-year test period

Billy Liar
Reply to  David L. Hagen
October 10, 2015 3:14 pm

David Hagen, are you marketing these sensors? It sure looks like you are.

Billy Liar
Reply to  Billy Liar
October 10, 2015 3:16 pm

PS annual drift of 7ppm is NOT parts ber billion – maybe the nano-resolution thing is a bit OTT.

David L. Hagen
Reply to  Billy Liar
October 10, 2015 7:57 pm

Billy Nope. I delight in precision metrology and provide a good example of resolution vs accuracy. I’m a research engineer. So I “dream” of how to improve the accuracy to provide quantitative data to ground/ constrain/ validate climate models. When the digiquartz sensor achieve ppb resolution but pressure calibration is limited to 10 ppm, that’s 4 orders of magnitude difference – suggesting at least one to two orders of magnitude room for improvement!

David L. Hagen
Reply to  Billy Liar
October 10, 2015 8:02 pm

Billy – Distinguish resolution vs accuracy. Resolution of ppb is different from “accuracy” or total uncertainty – which includes the drift of 7 ppm/yr, temperature variations, calibration etc. You can graduate “a fisherman’s ruler” in 100s of an inch, but if it is only 6″ long you have massive Type B error.

ScienceABC123
October 10, 2015 8:17 am

Excellent work Kip Hansen. I look forward to reading more from you. Thank you.

RCS
October 10, 2015 8:25 am

Thanks for this amusing and informative essay.
I would rather call the numbers “bogus” as opposed to imaginary (imagined? pseudo-number? ….).
The idea of averaging seems tio rather widely abused. Yes, I agree according to the Central Limit theroem averaging points taken deom any distribution will reuslt in a normally distributed mean with a variance that decreases with the number of averages.
However, thw problem is that many variables in Climate are not normally distributed and may be mutimodal. Furthermore, the CLT requires that the points are uncorrelated. Thus the mean may be highly misleading and must be qualified by the distribution and the correlation.
In other wor words the mean may not mean what you think it means! (Sorry ghastly pun).
This applies strongly to the mean of model outputs as rgb@duke has so often pointed out.

MfK
October 10, 2015 8:29 am

Mean sea level is defined by a surface of constant gravitational potential, whose value is a very real number in the sense that the gravitational potential anywhere on that surface will result in the exact same acceleration on any mass whose center of mass lies on that plane. The geometric figure defined by that potential is known (though it is being refined continuously), and is called the “reference geoid.” It is described by a spherical harmonic expansion having hundreds of coefficients, which allows one to calculate the x,y,x coordinates of a point on the local geoid in earth centered coordinates.
Any sea level measurement anywhere in the world at any given time will likely not correspond to the local geoid radius. The oceans are never in equilibrium. But more to the point, the reference geoid itself is constantly changing as more and more accurate measurements become available. I find it difficult to believe that we can resolve a change of 3 to 4 millimeters out of a number whose “mean value” (the earth’s mean radius) is 6,371,000,000 millimeters – particularly when the geoid itself has changed by as much as 30,000 millimeters in the past 50 years (by dint of better measurements).
Here’s a good article on the subject by a guy at ERSI, the world’s leading geodetic information center.
http://www.esri.com/news/arcuser/0703/geoid1of3.html

JohnKnight
Reply to  MfK
October 12, 2015 3:52 pm

MfK,
As I see these matters (admittedly somewhat dimly), what you bring to the discussion here is perhaps the most illustrative of all the things brought to explain why speaking of “sea level” as if a global surface that can be directly related to the actual volume or mass of all the water in the seas, is misleading.
If the whole globe itself is in flux, so to speak, everything in this arena of equating minute changes in amalgamated estimates of “local” sea levels, to real world changes in how much total actual water is in the seas, becomes blatantly questionable, to my mind. I waited to see what the “experts” around here would say about your comment . . but decided to thank you regardless.

October 10, 2015 8:29 am

Hi Kip,
Here is a link to some real time ocean depth data, taken by reading the pressure due to the water column above the sensor which is presumably anchored on the bottom. Surface waves are relatively high frequency (compared with the tides) and can accurately removed by filtering.
The data goes back about ten years for souls like Willis to fit and analyze.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_history.php?station=46411
Regards,
Jim

wsbriggs
October 10, 2015 8:41 am

Some people need to get a grip! It isn’t enough that Mr. Hansen explains carefully what he means by using the term imaginary – I for one simply substituted invented in my mind for imaginary. There are people who a looking for some reason to complain, rather than try to understand. Hansen’s discussion is dead on point.
We have a large number of physical entities which are derived from a theoretical exposition. Enthalpy being one of them, mean sea level being another. They are invented entities, we don’t measure them directly, we infer them from the calculations we make on the direct measurements of other entities. Many of them involve sets of time averaged samples – take a look with speckle interferometry at the end of a heated metal rod to see the effective length of the rod change dynamically. Any measurement is a time average of the length, not the “true length.”
I’ve read a exposition on the physics of the world that said that uncertainty wasn’t just a feature of the quantum world, rather it propagates throughout our world in our measurement estimates. Different behaviors at different levels, but that is part of the fractal nature of the universe. You can’t know anything exactly, but you can know it well enough to do something with it – kind of the mantra of good engineering.
Ultimately, we can reduce everything to time, mass, and distance. Ultimately we are basing those other entities on derived values from those three. You can measure time using oscillations, crudely with a pendulum, or more precisely using oscillations of selected atom groups, way more precise, but still with known uncertainty. The same is true of mass, and distance. Mr. Hansen is obviously very aware of the foregoing statements as is rgb.

Steve Jones
Reply to  wsbriggs
October 10, 2015 8:48 am

“Ultimately, we can reduce everything to time, mass, and distance”

Technically time and distance are equivalent, as Einstein has theorized. If you also look at the bending of space-time as “mass”, you can derive mass from both time and distance.

Hugs
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 12:20 pm

Well they are equivalent in some cases but not really same. You still use a clock to measure time, and not a ruler.
You need to ask what dimensionless numbers relate fundamental particles and forces to each other. The length of a light-nanosecond (about one foot) is defined by c which depends on several dimensionless numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensionless_quantity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_structure_constant
But, if you have already ‘set’ your foot, second and pound, you can define all units of speed and energy etc no problem. Where the dimensionless constants of nature come from, is an open question.

Editor
Reply to  Steve Jones
October 10, 2015 8:49 pm

Are you suggesting that people should replace pressure sensors with space-time strain gauges? Who sells them and how much do they cost?

Samuel C. Cogar
October 10, 2015 8:45 am

Kip Hansen
Great essay, thanks for publishing it.
Abstract or imaginary numbers, … especially averages and percentages, …. have no real value other than as “reference” data or information and should never be touted or claimed as being factual proof or evidence of anything …. except maybe for a specific event that occurred at a specific past time or place.
And I would like to add, it is long past time that someone said it and you did a fine job at doing it.
And in doing so, me thinks you have thrown a big bucket of ice-cold water on many of the “claims of scientific fact” being touted by WUWT authors/commenters/posters.
Cheers

October 10, 2015 9:21 am
Ric Diola
October 10, 2015 10:34 am

I remember being told by a wise math professor that God gave us the rainbow and the Central Limit Theorem. I have found over the years that the distribution of averages being Normally Distributed to be a quite useful Imaginary Number for application in the engineering field especially for noisey data. That being said, the usefulness of the technique is in the taking of the averages to get the benefit of the Normal Distribution.

wsbriggs
Reply to  Ric Diola
October 10, 2015 11:51 am

The major problem with the Gaussian distribution is that there are a lot of processes out there that are not Gaussian. From the New York Stock Exchange, to fat molecules suspended in a liquid, what might look to be Gaussian, turns out to be some long tailed distribution, which is Gaussian only when circumstances are just right. The rest of the time it isn’t. Yes, that’s just another way of saying that a whole lot of the world is really fractal.
Really, the usefulness of the Normal Distribution is that it’s easily differentiated. You get a lot of analytical “solutions” to problems using it. It’s the outliers that kill you, Black Swan events in the markets, floods in many areas, all are problems that arise when we believe too much in Normal Distributions.

Hugs
Reply to  wsbriggs
October 10, 2015 12:27 pm

Good point there. People believe in normal distribution when there is only an approximate normal distribution. People forget they use an approximation.
Point-like car on frictionless, spherical road, again.

HAS
Reply to  wsbriggs
October 10, 2015 5:28 pm

And if we are worrying about sea level rise because of effect on erosion risk it is exactly the likelihood of extreme events that create those risks, and the distribution of extreme events ain’t nice and normal.

October 10, 2015 11:05 am

In reading this thread I kept thinking that if the gov’t took about 0.0097% of the grant money it shovels into ‘studying climate change’, and spent it on, say, 1,000 new tide gauges in appropriate locations around the planet, the question of SL change would be answered within reasonably tight error bars.
I suppose that’s wishful thinking; government and .edu scientists do not want an accurate SL measurement, because then what would they do? They’d have to think up a whole new set of “but what if…” grant proposals.
They’re already regretting launching the satellite measuring CO2 concentrations. Better for them if we don’t have good SL answers. Speculation = more grant $$.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
October 10, 2015 3:27 pm

Kip Hansen:
dbstealey commented on the use of climate data by politicians and your answer says

How much is the Relative Sea Level changing at those thousand new points? Averaging those points, even added into the data base of existing tide gauges, might not inform us about changes in Absolute Global Average Sea Level. Relative sea level is the level of the top of the water where it meets the land. As one can see by looking at the data in the New York Battery tide gauge example, it may have little to do with what is being called Global Sea Level or Global Sea Level rise because, as one commenter said somewhere recently, “The ocean is not a bathtub.”

True, “The ocean is not a bathtub” but the illustration you need which concurs with dbstealey’s point is not “the New York Battery tide gauge” but is sea level rise near London.
Politicians repeatedly assert that the need to close the London Barrage is becoming more frequent because of global sea level rise from global warming. In fact, the apparent rapid rate of sea level rise near London is almost entirely caused by isostatic rebound.
The ‘London example’ shows you are both right.
Richard

Reply to  dbstealey
October 10, 2015 11:30 am

Kip,
I was making a suggestion that would correct for land rising, subsidence, and general isostatic changes. Satellite SL measurements have been criticised because they produce different results than tide gauges.
Global sea level changes are difficult to measure accurately. Wouldn’t a sufficient number of tide gauges produce a good number? If not, then what’s the best way to accurately measure global SL rise?
[BTW, thanks for the Battery Park link. Interesting conclusion re: AGW.]

Reply to  dbstealey
October 10, 2015 3:17 pm

Kip,
I think you’re missing the most important point: ∆SL is not a scientific question. It is a political question.
The alarmist crowd argues that SL is rising, and that the rise is accelerating. There is no good evidence to support that narrative, but that doesn’t mean it can be ignored. It needs to be rebutted.
The only good way to do that is to establish a reliable measure of the global SL trend.
Naturally, alarmists do not want that. It would be very likely to show that there is no problem, and that the SL argument is just another false alarm. They do not want reliable, testable, empirical measurements of things like sea level trends, Arctic ice trends, etc., because such measurements would probably falsify their ‘dangerous man-made global warming’ conjecture.
We all know that if climate alarmists believed that a verifiable measurement of the SL trend would show that SL rise is accelerating, the money to obtain those measurements would be found, stat.
For that reason we must produce reliable, testable measurements showing where the SL is going (the trend), and how fast. If there is a better way to do that than establishing a network of a sufficient number of tide gauges to give a reliable answer, please post it.
I don’t care how they do it; like skeptics everywhere I just want reliable data. If there is a problem we’ll deal with it. But if, as I suspect, there has been no acceleration in SL rise (and as your link shows, possibly even a deceleration due to AGW), then the only way to demonstrate that is with verifiable, testable measurements.
What is the best way to measure global ∆SL, and the global SL trend?

Samuel C. Cogar
Reply to  dbstealey
October 11, 2015 6:33 am

dbstealey – October 10, 2015 at 3:17 pm

For that reason we must produce reliable, testable measurements showing where the SL is going (the trend), and how fast.

HA, the “Tilting at windmills” is not a logical action because the “climate alarmists” do not care one “twit” about reliable, testable measurements, …. scientific facts and evidence …… nor logical reasoning and intelligent deductions.
The “climate alarmists” have an agenda they are committed to and no amount of reliable, testable “rain, sleet or snow” will deter them from completing their mission.
The Public Schools are producing “climate alarmists” faster n’ quicker than you can ever hope to re-educate them.

October 10, 2015 1:58 pm

I used to be disturbed by the concept of ‘i’ (or the square root of -1) until I realized that all numbers are imaginary and that ‘i’ is as valid as 1.
e to the power (i x π) + 1 = 0, remains the most beautiful equation ever discovered.

richard verney
October 10, 2015 3:06 pm

I consider that this article makes a number of good points (for which it should be welcomed), but I also consider that for practical purposes, it may be overstating the case. Like others, although Kip has in my opinion done an excellent job in defining what he means by imaginary and thus what he is seeking to convey, I do not consider that imaginary is the best word to be used. This is perhaps a subjective point, but to me the word imaginary comes with baggage of its own which I find difficult to displace.
I also consider that kip would have been better to use the global temperature anomaly as the subject of the illustration of his article rather than sea level, since I consider that to be a far stronger illustration of the problems behind the issue that Kip is raising with respect to imaginary numbers.
I consider that as far as se level is concerned (and the post is not about sea level), we are deluding ourselves if we consider that we can measure sea level rise on an annual basis. The problems with measurement are such that one cannot measure a change over a period as short as a year. The signal is lost within the noise. I have pointed out for years that the satellite measurements are fraught with difficulties and I would imagine that we are only now beginning to be able to determine whether there has been any change since launch in global sea levels.
However, I consider that it is possible to make a measurement (with appropriate error bounds and these could be quite large) over a multi- decadal period. We can detect a change over say a 30 year period. We can be confident when we say that sea level has risen the past century that it has actually risen, and with acceptable error bounds, we could put a figure by how much it has risen the past century.
But of course, like so many matters, sea level is regional and is relative to the topography against which it is being judged, especially because of isostatic and plate tectonic issues. The impact of sea level rise is also a regional matter.

David S
October 10, 2015 4:01 pm

So many numbers are essentially arbitrary . Basically they are always about the marketing. The question becomes what is the number that will be credible to make people believe we have a problem ; not too high to be clearly rubbish and not to low to be not scary. Whether that be 97 % of scientists or 50 cm rise or 400 parts per million of CO2 or 2 degree rise or 10 years of pause till AGW is falsified. If the response to the number is not alarmist enough or too alarmist then adjust the number or if the actually number is clearly false change the number. The AGW theory survives by starting with answers and trying to manipulate data to reach that conclusion.
I always marvel when I read about 99% fat free or 99 % of consumers etc? when selling a product? What happened to the other 1%. The use of numbers is about the propagander no more and no less. For any person to assume that these figures has no error margins is naive. Unfortunately our media class is very naive and they export their nativity onto their readers/ viewers. Numbers are critical in any argument and discrediting them is the most important action that skeptics have to take.

October 10, 2015 4:19 pm

Kip Hansen says:
One can engage in the Climate Wars if one is so inclined — me, not so much.
It needs to be rebutted, Kip: Qui tacet consentire videtur. ‘Silence implies consent.’ The alarmist cult says that the rise in sea level is accelerating. We cannot leave that narrative unchallenged.
As David S points out:
The AGW theory survives by starting with answers and trying to manipulate data to reach that conclusion.
They are doing the same thing regarding the claim that the rise in sea level is accelerating. The best way to counter that would be to produce a verifiable measure of the global SL trend. This is the third time I’ve asked: what is the best way to measure that? You didn’t like my suggestion of more tide gauges, so what is a better way to measure the true SL trend?
Next, richard verney says:
…we are deluding ourselves if we consider that we can measure sea level rise on an annual basis… However, I consider that it is possible to make a measurement (with appropriate error bounds and these could be quite large) over a multi-decadal period. We can detect a change over say a 30 year period…
All good points. Another thing to consider: if the putative rise in SL was accelerating as claimed, there would be plenty of empirical evidence showing that accelerating rise. But there isn’t. Some measurements show a long term deceleration:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/3144596227_545227fbae_b.jpg
OTOH, there is plenty of real world evidence that makes alarmist claims very questionable. One such instance is this mean sea level (MSL) mark carved into rock in 1841:
http://www.john-daly.com/photo2.gif
Today’s MSL is the same. OK, some may argue that uplifting has caused the MSL mark to remain the same. But by exactly the amount of uplifting required to show no change in MSL? For 174 years? Occam’s Razor comes into play here.
Other readers have commented that two century old Royal Navy charts from various locations around the globe show no change in MSL; a one fathom (6 feet) depth is still one fathom today.
Those are much longer than your proposed 30-year period, in which we should be able to detect any ∆MSL — but the counter argument by the climate alarmist side lacks such empirical evidence.
The central question as always is: which side is right?

Reply to  Kip Hansen
October 11, 2015 9:07 am

That’s what I try to do every day, Kip, using facts, evidence, and logical arguments. I don’t have to try and convince you, and it’s impossible to convince the climate alarmist crowd of anything. We’re fighting for the undecided middle ground.
I don’t understand why you seem to have a problem with that. This is a political fight. If it was based on facts and evidence we would have won the debate long ago.

Samuel C. Cogar
Reply to  dbstealey
October 11, 2015 8:10 am

dbstealey – October 10, 2015 at 4:19 pm

‘Silence implies consent.’ The alarmist cult says that the rise in sea level is accelerating. We cannot leave that narrative unchallenged.

Why not leave it unchallenged? You will only be “spinning-your-wheels” and getting nowhere if you challenge the alarmist cult’s claim that CAGW is causing an accelerating rise in sea levels ……. simply because you are challeging the measured/calculated/estimated “results” of an action ….. rather than challenging the root “cause” of said action (CAGW).
Challenging abstract or imaginary “numbers” is a waste of time.
And in reference to your concern about “leaving a narrative unchallenged”, …… there is a far, far more important “narrative” that you should be challenging rather than the above SL thingy.

Reply to  Samuel C. Cogar
October 11, 2015 8:57 am

Samuel Cogar says:
… the “climate alarmists” do not care one “twit” about reliable, testable measurements, …. scientific facts and evidence …… nor logical reasoning and intelligent deductions.
Agree completely. But we’re not trying to convince them of anything. That just isn’t possible, given their eco-religion.
We are fighting for the undecideds — the middle ground. The public needs to see skeptics’ point of view, otherwise all they will be aware of is the alarmists’ climate scare.
BTW, I challenge what you call the “root cause” of alarmism every day, and more than most. I do it on many different sites. We do what we can, and educating the undecided public is working. A few years ago there was still a lot of concern in the general media over ‘dangerous man-made global warming’. Public comments under those articles expressed the fear that there might still be a problem.
But no more. Now, about 70% – 80% of public comments openly ridicule the CAGW fanatics. People are laughing at them, and ridicule is a potent weapon.
Personally, I think educating the undecided public is very important; I certainly don’t view it as ‘spinning my wheels’ to educate people. We each fight the alarmist crowd in our own way. My way is working.

Samuel C. Cogar
Reply to  Samuel C. Cogar
October 12, 2015 6:56 am

dbstealey says:

Personally, I think educating the undecided public is very important; I certainly don’t view it as ‘spinning my wheels’ to educate people. We each fight the alarmist crowd in our own way. My way is working.

I think educating the misnurtured/miseducated public is very, very important and it has been my non-paid mission to do so for the past 50 or so years. I was educated to be a Professional educator of the Natural Sciences and have conducted myself in a Professional manner all those years henceforth.
Uh, .. uh, ..uh, … my “spinning wheels” comment was in reference to educating your per se eco-religious “climate alarmists”. Like I’ve always said, …. “Religion will rot your mind if you become obsessed or engrossed with it.
And I agree, the public needs to see/hear/read the denialist’s refutations of the “junk science” claims being touted by the avid proponents of AGW or CAGW. I am NOT a skeptic or doubter of their silly arsed clams, ….but an avidly vocal denier of said claims ….. simply because said claims are not based in/on actual, factual science, physical evidence or intelligently deduced logical reasoning.
And that is the primary reason I post my learned knowledge and/or “denials” on public forums or blogs. I have always figured there could be as much as “1,000 to 1 ratio” of …. public viewers verses forum posters ……. and it is those “public viewers” that need to read the “factual science” side of the discussion so that they can better make an informed decision on what to believe.
Claims of fact” that are totally or partially dependent on ….. associations, correlations, insinuations, guesstimations, percentagations, consensus of opinions, etc., …. should be considered “tripe n’ piffle” commentary that is in dire need of physical evidence and/or mathematical/experimental proof.
And ps, the science associated with the “drying” and/or “refrigeration” for the preservation of edible food items ….. negates …….. the CAGW claim that the Northern Hemisphere wintertime microbial decomposition of dead biomass is directly responsible for the bi-yearly 6-8 ppm cycling of atmospheric CO2. ….. Source references: Bacteriology 101 & Botany 101

eyesonu
October 10, 2015 5:42 pm

Thanks Kip for a very interesting post.
Just for fun on the thought of averaging and imaginary numbers. If we were to average the rain over South Carolina last week with that of the regions on California experiencing drought then we could relieve the CA drought and ease SC flooding at the same time (at least on paper).
If I did such a trick I would imagine some folks in CA would imagine that I was imagining some imaginary mathematical slight of hand. Could you imagine that?
😉

Reply to  eyesonu
October 12, 2015 1:30 pm

Let’s cut to the chase, and average the imaginary numbers. ☺

Catcracking
October 10, 2015 8:51 pm

I must point out that as an engineer I have a skeptical view of the accuracy of most of the data presented by “climate scientists”. On the other hand I am quite familiar with large tank level measurement techniques.
Stilling wells have been used in crude oil and fuel storage tanks for decades (maybe longer) because there is a lot of $$$ at stake to achieve accuracy and the level varies in the tank during fluctuations during filling/emptying and wind induced flexure. Today more accurate devices have replaced or supplemented the old level gauges. A stilling well is a pipe with slots at the bottom to allow liquid in/out while dampening the “waves” in the tank
I suspect the tank stilling well technology that is/was used was adopted from tide gauges for tank level gauges. I can’t comment on the accuracy for tide gauges but someone has tried to compensate for normal wave action back in 1830. Of course a stilling well does not compensate for soil subsidence.
“Until the early 19th Century, sea-level measurements were made using tide poles or staffs. These still form part of modern-day tide gauge instrumentation, but have not been used as a primary source of sea-level information since the introduction of self-recording tide gauges. The earliest form of self-recording tide gauges were mechanical float and stilling well gauges, which were introduced in the UK during the 1830s. They were the primary means of sea-level measurement for over 150 years and continue to operate at some UK locations today. However, they are generally auxiliary systems to newer pressure gauges.”
One final question. I recall that the recorded sea level rise has been increased to account for subsidence under the sea which in my mind exaggerates the real sea level impact on surrounding land. How can that make sense?

eyesonu
Reply to  Catcracking
October 11, 2015 6:24 am

Catcracking,
I think most engineers ( at least in the mechanical/physical fields) have a view of the physical reality that it ‘is what it is’, not one of ‘it is what they want it to be’.
Those in the engineering fields are most likely to be the most skeptical of observers in the global warming debate (if you could call the great CAGW scam a debate). Makes you kind of wonder if we will face RICO charges and Executive Orders to stand down and comply with the 97% narrative.
😉

Catcracking
Reply to  Kip Hansen
October 11, 2015 10:28 am

Thanks Kip for post.

Alan McIntire
October 11, 2015 6:21 am

“imaginary numbers” was an unfortunate misnomer in mathematics. In reality, “imaginary numbers” come up all the time in “REAL” physics problems. When they do, the solution includes an oscillation 0 a sine or cosine function. Since imaginary numbers are actually real, Kip Hansen should have used a new term, such as “fantasy numbers”.

eyesonu
Reply to  Alan McIntire
October 11, 2015 6:29 am

Alan,
I didn’t have any problem with “imaginary numbers” but “fantasy numbers” would have been a most excellent choice.
But then you would have to subject that term for review to find out if someone has dibs on it. 😉

October 11, 2015 8:47 am

On the subject of REAL numbers and real lives:
One’s predictive track record is an objective measure of one’s technical competence, and based on its negative predictive track record, the IPCC has NO credibility.
Since its first report (FAR, 1990) the IPCC has predicted catastrophic global warming due to increased atmospheric CO2. However, global temperatures in the Lower Troposphere (LT) have NOT warmed in more than 18 years despite significant increases in CO2, according to the most accurate temperature data measured by satellites. The Surface Temperature (ST) data claims some warming, but it is increasingly obvious that the ST data is inaccurate, due to its increasingly large divergence from the satellite data.
Despite claims of more extreme weather due to global warming, the incidence and severity of extreme weather has not increased. The climate has been remarkably stable despite substantial increases in atmospheric CO2.
Over-hyped fears of global warming are utterly wrong. In fact, cold weather kills. Throughout history and in modern times, many more people succumb to cold exposure than to hot weather, as evidenced in a wide range of cold and warm climates. Evidence is provided from a study of 74 million deaths in thirteen cold and warm countries including Thailand and Brazil, and studies of the United Kingdom, Europe, the USA, Australia and Canada.
Contrary to popular belief, Earth is colder-than-optimum for human survival. A warmer world, such as was experienced during the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Warm Period, is expected to lower winter deaths and a colder world like the Little Ice Age will increase winter mortality, absent adaptive measures. These conclusions have been known for many decades, based on national Excess Winter Mortality statistics.
Excess Winter Mortality in the USA typically totals about 100,000 per year – that is, 100,000 Excess Winter Deaths every year during the cold months of December through March. Excess Winter Deaths range from about 5000 to 10,000 in Canada and up to 50,000 per year in the United Kingdom.
Despite our colder climate, Canada typically has slightly lower Excess Winter Mortality Rates than the USA and much lower than the UK. This is attributed to our better adaptation to cold weather, including better home insulation and home heating systems, and much lower energy costs than the UK, as a result of low-cost natural gas due to shale fracking and our lower implementation of inefficient and costly green energy schemes.
Global warming alarmists seeks to reduce the use of fossil fuels and increase the use of green energy. In Europe, where green energy schemes have been widely implemented, the result is higher energy costs that are unaffordable for the elderly and the poor, and increased winter deaths. European politicians are retreating from highly-subsidized green energy schemes and returning to fossil fuels.
The problem with green energy schemes is they are not green and they produce little useful energy, primarily because they are too intermittent and require almost 100% fossil-fueled (or other) backup.
The lessons are clear: When misinformed politicians fool with energy systems, the costs are enormous – globally, trillions of dollars of scarce resources have been squandered, economies have been severely damaged, and innocent people have needlessly suffered and died.
Yours truly, Allan MacRae
The UN’s IPCC Has No Credibility on Global Warming 6Sept2015
https://friendsofsciencecalgary.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/the-uns-ipcc-has-no-credibility-on-global-warming-6sept2015-final.pdf
Cold Weather Kills MacRae D’Aleo 4Sept2015
https://friendsofsciencecalgary.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cold-weather-kills-macrae-daleo-4sept2015-final.pd