This book, Climate Change: The Facts of which I’m a co-author, is becoming a powerhouse on Amazon, here are the latest numbers as they compare to Dr. Michael Mann’s new book.
#1 in Environment! and #74 in All Books!
Details here
And #1 in Climatology too!
#82,090 in Books
Get your copy here: (available on Kindle, backordered AVAILABLE AGAIN in hard copy)



Fantasy always sells better than science.
Regarding “Climate Change”, only in the Main Stream Media, SHF, and I couldn’t agree more with you on that.
It’s just not a circus unless Flash Harry rocks up.
Actually, thinking people prefer the facts and truth to alarmist pseudoscience, hype, and spin.
>Fantasy always sells better than science.
Uh…no it doesn’t actually.
Bull.
Still jealous that nobody is buying your lies?
Rachel Carson, just another lady with a bee in her bonnet and if she’d have left it at that….but then you can’t comprehend the repercussions, as unfathomable as is the ether. But banning DDT – one can never account for mankind’s group think of stupidity – one can attest and bear witness to the misery and death it caused though and maybe utter – never again.
Down the line, here comes another – Hillary Clinton – buzzing like mad!
If I was a science teacher, I would assign Mann’s books for my students to read to show them what bad science looks like.
Reblogged this on Sierra Foothill Commentary and commented:
Congratulation to Anthony and his fellow authors for the huge success. I bought my copy when Mark Steyn announced the book on his blog. He is also a co-author. Highly recommended if you what the real facts about Climate Change.
The free marketplace of ideas has given its comparative valuation of the ideas in the book ‘Climate Change: The Facts’ (co-authored by many independent critical thinkers**). Namely, the free marketplace of ideas finds ‘’Climate Change: The Facts’ is valued as being interesting to a much much wider audience as compared to ‘Dire Predictions: Understanding Climate Change’ (by Mann).
I love the smell of the free marketplace of ideas in the morning.
** co-authors are: John Abbot; Jennifer Marohasy; Andrew Bolt; Robert M Carter; Rupert Darwall; James Delingpole; Christopher Essex; Stewart W Franks; Kesten C Green; J Scott Armstrong; Donna Laframboise; Nigel Lawson; Bernie Lewin; Richard S Lindzen; Ross McKitrick; Alan Moran; Patrick J Michaels; Joanne Nova; Garth W Paltridge; Ian Plimer; Willie Soon; Mark Steyn; Anthony Watts. Editor, Alan Moran.
John
People are still buying Silent Spring?
That book was exposed as pure fiction 30 years ago.
People are still buying ‘The Population Bomb’, and it’s been discredited for longer.
Hell, they still read Marx.
I just bought myself the Kindle edition of Climate Change: The Facts. Thanks for the reminder, Anthony! Really happy to support these authors, and besides I’ll need something interesting to pass away my upcoming 11-hour flight to sunny Thailand on one of those nasty fossil-fuel-spewing airliners!
“on one of those nasty fossil-fuel-spewing airliners!”. Have a safe trip!
I just read “U.S. EPA takes first step to regulate aircraft greenhouse gas emissions”.
I wonder if that will affect any flights to Paris?
Paul – Here is the link to the proposed rule to be issued in the Federal Register (note, Our Friend at EPA Ms. Gina McCarthy just released this today):
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/documents/aviation/aircraft-ghg-pr-anprm-2015-06-10.pdf
Oh, the humanity. I fully expect a war declared by the EPA upon all carbon-based organisms, as they put forth great quantities of CO2 during the act of respiration. Starting with those skeptical of the EPA’s position on CO2 = pollution. The war “drones” on (notice my aviation-related pun right there?)…
MCR
The Paragon of Scientists by Jim Dodson
What a piece of work is Mann,
How ignoble in unreason.
How finite in faculty.
In jetting about instead of teleconferencing,
How like a hypocrite.
In action, how like a conman working an angle,
In eventual apprehension by the proper authorities
How like a fraud!
An alternate title for Mann’s ‘Dire Predictions: Understanding Climate Change’ is something like ‘Useful Mythological Climate Doom or the IPCC on Climate Change’.
An alternate title for ‘Climate Change: The Facts’ is something like ‘Behind the Curtain; Exposing the Illusions in IPCC’s Climate Change’
John
Congrats.
Anyone want to bet how long it will be before that reference will last on the WattsUpWithThat Wikipedia page?
I note the bimodal distribution of review levels. Sad commentary on the state of the debate.
Above, some people took issue with my characterization of this book. Most importantly, I offered this quote:
Saying it is bad for skeptics to act as though we’re not certain the planet warmed during the 1900s. Some people insisted the quote doesn’t do so, saying it is reasonable to say “temperature may have warmed during the twentieth century” but we can’t tell via instrumental records. I struggle with that interpretation. No matter how flawed one may think the instrumental records are, I’d like to think we could all agree they do show the planet warmed in the twentieth century.
But since there was dispute over that quote, I’d like to offer a couple more to demonstrate the same general point. That quote was from Chapter 5. Now I’ll quote Chapter 1:
This book says further CO2 emissions “will have an insignificant effect.” That’s not directly denying the greenhouse effect, but it is basically saying further global warming (of any meaningful amount) won’t happen. That’s not good. Even if you believe climate sensitivity is as low as 1C, future CO2 emissions can still have some meaningful effect. This quote is from a section:
Which sets the stage for a number of other terrible talking points people should run away from (e.g. CO2 makes up a tiny % of the atmosphere so it doesn’t matter), but perhaps the most clear statement is:
But perhaps the worst statement comes from the Introduction of the book which says:
50 years. No evidence. Not a shred of evidence that we will see any warming (caused by humans) in the next 50 years. No skeptic should be comfortable being associated with a position like that. I think some chapters in this book are quite good, but I’d be embarrassed to have written one of them if it meant being in a book which says things like this.
First the pause wasn’t long enough to be a pause and therefore was not significant. Then the pause was acknowledged and blamed on missing heat and/or natural variation. Then the pause disappeared by using bad (ship) data to correct more accurate and robust (buoy) data.
Given all of that, how can any reasonable person not believe that our understanding of the science of the Earth’s Climate is anything but poor at this point. I wish I could share your confidence, but after examining the data, methods, predictions and assertions I cannot.
Reg Nelson, I don’t fully agree with your depiction of the situation (primarily because of your remark about ship/buoy data), but regardless, the idea the planet didn’t warm in the 1900s is ludicrous. The idea there is no evidence we will see warming in the next 50 years is absurd. There is a lot of room for uncertainty in the global warming debate, but some things are quite certain.
For instance, the planet did warm in the 1900s. We should all be able to agree about that.
@ur momisugly Brandon Shollenberger
I never claimed the planet hasn’t warmed. The planet has both warmed and cooled in the past. I think we can both agree on that. The fact that the planet has warmed, in and of itself, means nothing. Understanding how much it has warmed and why is what is scientifically important. When I see graphs showing the global temperature anomaly for 1850 with a claimed precision of 0.1C, I know based on the amount data collected and the method of measurement that this simply is not possible.
My point is that we haven’t got the science figured out yet. Show me one paper that predicted the pause. There is nothing wrong with saying we don’t know at this point. All science has to begin somewhere. To claim that “the science is settled” is absurd.
Reg Nelson:
I understand you haven’t done so. Other people have, however. Or at least, they’ve said we don’t know the planet has warmed (since 1900). Just below, the commenter Bruce Cobb even said:
That’s the sort of attitude I’m talking about. This book encourages it. It denies that we know the planet has warmed (since 1900), and it says there is no evidence the planet will warm in the next 50 years. It says other things as well, but my point is we should all be able to agree on a few basic details. So when you say:
That’s fine. I just think if people want to be taken seriously, they need to agree the planet has warmed since 1900 and will warm again in the future. And I think it’s a shame this book encourages people not to agree with either point.
Wow, even the guys who collect and work with ship data acknowledge how bad it is. But Brandon won’t accept that as a characterization of the data.
How bad the data is, has been well documented and discussed to death here in recent days so I won’t bother going over all of it again.
Brandon, fascinating how you slide so easily from the assumption that there has been warming, to the belief that the warming must have been caused by man.
Brandon Shollenberger
Please explain why you persist in trying to disrupt this thread by quoting accurate and correct facts from the book then say the facts must be wrong because you don’t understand them.
And for the fourth time in this thread, I say to you
Sadly, the only additional help I can give you is advice.
I advise you to stop making posts on WUWT until you have taken a remedial course in reading comprehension because you are making a laughing stock of yourself.
Richard
richardscourtney, I am not trying to disrupt anything. This topic is about a book. I am discussing that book. The fact you think I am dishonest has no bearing on that. You can continue insulting me all you want. You can repeatedly insist I am dishonest if you’d like. You can even say I believe things I’ve explicitly said I do not believe.
You can keep doing all of those if you’d like, but none of them will contribute anything to discussion. In fact, they will disrupt things far more than anything I might have to say will.
Brandon Shollenberger
I refer you to the true and accurate comment of Bruce Cobb below because I am fed up with refuting your ridiculous and untrue twaddle.
Richard
I don’t have the time nor the inclination to go back through this thread and find the exact quote, but someone here suggested that Brandon might be intelligent because of his word use. He might be, but I think it a fallacy to assume that word use implies intelligence. Having a large vocabulary and the ability turn a phrase has been given way too much credit in our society. I believe that having a way with words, maybe a sign of a certain type of intelligence, but it is not necessarily associated with an ability to think. The other side of the coin is that some highly intelligent people have trouble expressing themselves.
While I concede Bradon might be intelligent, I’d be remiss if I didn’t add that nothing he has written on this thread suggest that he is in fact intelligent.
Brandon, we aren’t discussing the book. We are discussing your mischaracterizations of the book.
Tom Trevor, MarkW, I find it fascinating how you guys keep making comments without even attempting to contribute anything. I’m genuinely curious what you hope to achieve. Do you think this approach will convince me of anything? I assume not.
My best guess is you hope to convince onlookers what I’ve been saying is wrong, but I don’t see how you think it could. The only other idea I have is you’re just trying to force me off the site so I’ll shut up.
Seriously. All I’ve been saying is the planet has warmed since 1900, and it will warm again in the future. Those should be points everybody can agree on.
Brandon Shollenberger
I see you are posting more falsehoods.
That is NOT all you are saying. Try to read your own words in this thread.
You really, really do need help.
Richard
Brandon, refuting your lies is not making a contribution?
Interesting world in which you live.
Is the beer free there?
Serious question Brandon – Do you understand the Beer-Lambert Law ?
I don’t want to shock you, but the fact is that there is little evidence of manmade warming. Period. It is merely conjecture. To then posit any future manmade warming is sheer stupidity.
Bruce Cobb, would you care to expand upon this point? I thought it was pretty obvious humans have caused the planet to warm, but I’d be curious to hear why you think it isn’t. I honestly don’t know why people might think the idea of manmade warming “is merely conjecture.”
Brandon, just because you believe something to be obvious, does not make it so.
Yes there is evidence that the planet has warmed, but the evidence that this warming was caused by man is very weak. Especially considering the fact that the earth has warmed by even greater amounts in the recent past. In fact, for most of the last 10K years, the planet has been warmer than it is today.
MarkW:
Interesting. It’s not, “Yes the planet has warmed”; it’s, “Yes there is evidence the planet has warmed.” And it’s not, “The evidence humans are responsible for all the warming is very weak”; It’s, “[T]he evidence that this warming was caused by man is very weak.”
Apparently my problem is I accept humans emissions of greenhouse gases has led to the greenhouse effect getting strong.
Brandon Shollenberger
June 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
“Apparently my problem is I accept humans emissions of greenhouse gases has led to the greenhouse effect getting strong.”
——————————-
Describing the greenhouse effect as strong is rather imprecise and subject to interpretation of the word “strong”, wouldn’t you agree?
Try this: merely present any modern era temperature data set which shows a clear temperature response to CO2atm. That should solve all of your problems here, today.
hint: This request might be considered a trick, since there is no modern (since 1850?) temp data set which shows any correlation at all between temps and CO2. You are free to disprove my statement and display, or link to such a data set.
Alan Robertson, I actually meant to type “stronger,” not “strong.” I’d like to think we could all agree humans have caused the greenhouse effect to get stronger, and hence, have cause the planet to warm, since pre-industrial times. That’s apparently not the case though.
Brandon,
As I explain in a previous comment, you fail to recognize that any possible planetary warming from CO2 might not show up in the record for a variety of reasons, chief among which is that the effect is so slight.
So far more CO2 has been a good thing and even more would be better.
And please let me add once again that there has in fact been no global warming for going on two decades now. This flat to cooling interval will soon have lasted longer than the relatively feeble late 20th century warming phase, blown off the super El Nino of 1997-98, itself possibly primarily the result of a stronger sun previously shining on the tropical Pacific, aided by higher UV flus making more ozone and a more powerful solar magnetic field reducing CCNs, and of natural oceanic oscillations such as the PDO.
Brandon, there you go again, lying about what others believe.
Brandon S says:
I’d like to think we could all agree humans have caused the greenhouse effect to get stronger…
I think it gets weaker. Much weaker. Here’s why.
Brandon S., in response to Alan Robertson’s very specific (I’ll call it the money) question, you provide an (extraordinarily lame) evasion, merely repeating what you’d “like to think we can all agree on”. If you answered his question, maybe more would agree. Your evasion indicates to those of us who doubt the “greenhouse effect” translates to the atmosphere, that you cannot prove it. How do you expect to persuade anyone here if you run away from Alan’s question?
I would much rather be associated with the comments in the book you take issue with, than be associated with any of the statements you have made on this post. Your lack of logic has been pointed out many times, and you refuse to address your clear lack of logic and instead you insist that your lack of logic is fact logical, and then double and triple down down on your lack of logic by adding more illogical statements to your previous illogical statements. Then you insist that all skeptics should endorse your illogical statements, and apparently bring our reading comprehension down to your level, so you will finally understand what we are saying. No sir, bring your understanding up.
Tom Trevor, I find it is generally best to join discussions if I have something to contribute. Commenting just to criticize a person, without explaining your criticisms or doing anything to justify them, seems like a bad idea.
If you think I am wrong about something, you’re welcome to say what it is you think I’ve gotten wrong. If not, you might as well just say, “You’re stoopid.” It would save some space, and it would contribute exactly as much.
I love the way warmistas actually believe that they get to define what words mean.
MarkW, I love it how you label me a “warmista” when I’ve probably done more to challenge popular science in the global warming debate than anyone commenting on this post. That’s not me tooting my horn. I just find it funny people on this site would decide to use derogatory labels for people who, in theory, should be their allies.
Apparently it’s just not okay to acknowledge basic things like, “Global warming is real” here.
Brandon Shollenberger
You add this to your long list of horrendous falsehoods in this thread
So, you claim to have “probably done more to challenge popular science in the global warming debate than” e.g. me.
That claim would be funny if it were not so daft.
Richard
Brandon, pretty much by definition, less than 1C of warming is not going to be significant.
MarkW:
Somebody just above made a relevant comment:
Pointing out that you want to change the definition of significant isn’t relevant?
Wow, you really do feel you have the right to define what word’s mean.
No, a 1C temperature rise is not significant, not by any rational definition of the term.
Perhaps you meant measureable. Different word, with an entirely different meaning.
Brandon Shollenberger —
I answered your other post. There is no point in answering this one. Your preset notions about what you are gong to read ARE what you read — not what is actually written on the page. Stick to comic books — they got pictures that will help you understand their text — what there is of it..
Eugene WR Gallun
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” – Mark Twain
Hopefully you can tell the difference between Brandon and me, but I will take the risk. I am not sure that anyone actually took him on point for point regarding the specific quotes (sorry, I could only watch so much bad thread tennis before my neck got sore). I am actually going to partially concede that he has a minor point, but don’t worry I will take him to task on the bulk of it.
[quote]Though global average temperature may have warmed during the twentieth century, no direct instrumental records exist that demonstrate any such warming within an acceptable degree of probability.[/quote]
He says that this is an embarrassingly bad quote because it is essentially trying to deny the temperature record. Most reasonable scientists can look at the surface temperature record and conclude that the general trend of the 20th century was a mild positive slope. This quote makes that point a bit of a mess.
There are questions about the precision of the instrumentation in the early 20th century, the consistency of data gathering, the corruption of many data stations by environmental encroachment, and a number of other issues. One could reasonably say that given all that, putting an error range into place, and accounting for precision, you could make the argument that the temperature rise is statistically small compared to the precision and error range. But that is a stretch.
Stronger points could be made: historical proxies show sharper rises over shorter periods; the rise is very gradual and therefore not dangerous; despite the rise, we are still at the lower end of the temperature scale historically speaking; more recent data with precise and reliable instruments show the rise has stopped. Leaving the impression that there was no rise in the 20th century is disingenuous.
I stop well short of Brandon’s characterization that this is an intentional misleading statement. I would say that it is an awkward way to say something that could give the reader (such as Brandon) an impression which is not intended.
[quote]The first 100 parts per million (ppm) of CO2 have a significant effect on atmospheric temperature, whereas any increase from the current 400 ppm will have an insignificant effect.[/quote]
Brandon takes issue with the fact that this leaves the impression that further contribution to the CO2 level will not lead to warming. He is correct that is the intended message, but incorrect that it is wrong. CO2 has a diminishing effect as concentration increases, and the current level is well beyond the level of significance (as far as planet temperature is concerned). Additional CO2 does help plant growth, which is good for the environment.
While it is technically correct that adding C02 will still have a tiny marginal warming impact, it is at a level that is well below our current ability to measure it. Brandon’s taking exception to this missed the point of the quote.
[quote] ii. The increased carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, will lead to ever increasing global warming. Point (ii) has shown to be invalid on all time scales. [/quote]
Brandon seems to think this statement too is false. Thank God he is wrong on this one. If increasing CO2 lead to increasing temperature, then the rise in temperature would cause outgassing of CO2 from water and soil, and the snowball effect is on its way to a runaway burning planet. The quote points to the proxy records which show that CO2 levels have been many times higher than present without much increase in temperature. Indeed temperatures have been lower with higher CO2 levels at points in time.
See the previous point on the diminishing returns from the effect of CO2 on temperature, and the negative feedbacks that exist in the system to neutralize the temperature/carbon cycle. The proxy record shows that CO2 rises in response to temperature rise (not the other way around), and because of the diminishing returns and negative feedbacks, Brandon’s fear of the present and future CO2 level is misplaced.
[quote] Robert Carter shows that any human effect on climate is trivial compared to natural variation, and that there is no evidence the next 50 years will bring human induced warming [/quote]
Brandon likes this quote least of all, but it is true. There is no hard, direct, meaningful science that can definitively point to any activity that man has done thus far has a statistically meaningful effect on climate compared to the natural variation of the system. There is a theory which is untested and unproven as to how significant man’s contribution may be, but as yet nothing empirical that state with any level of confidence. As there is no evidence of past impact, there can be no evidence of possible future impact.
If such proof existed, it would be cited as rebuttal each time a quote like this is put forward. Brandon has none because there is none.
htb1969:
Sorry, this thread includes a refutation of each and every point presented but the ridiculous Brandon Shollenberger.
Taking the specific point he has made which you wrongly consider to be valid; i.e.
You say
No! You are wrong because
(a)
Whether or not “the general trend of the 20th century” of “the surface temperature record” has “a mild positive slope” is not the same as saying the surface temperature record is capable of demonstrating that “warming within an acceptable degree of probability”. As the link I provided to Brandon Shollenberger explains, the “surface temperature record” has no known (and no knowable) accuracy and precision so CANNOT indicate the putative warming with “an acceptable degree of probability”.
(b)
I repeatedly explained (a) to Brandon Shollenberger in this thread, for example here and here. Unfortunately, his inability to read prevented him from understanding the matter.
Richard
“every point presented but the ridiculous Brandon Shollenberger.”
Are you implying that Brandon has been speaking through his nether regions?
MarkW
No, my word ‘but’ was a misprint for ‘by’.
Sorry, and thankyou for pointing it out.
However, for clarity I add that in in common with others, I have observed that “Brandon has been speaking through his nether regions”.
Richard
Brandon,
There has been warming since the depths of the Little Ice Age, c 1700, not just since 1900. Since c. 1850, the planet has been coming out of the LIA cold period into another warming interval, as has happened repeatedly during the Holocene. However, each successive warm period since the Minoan, over 3000 years ago, has been progressively less warm. Earth is in a long-term cooling trend.
The recovery from the Maunder Minimum depths of the LIA in the early 18th century was greater in duration and amplitude than the late 20th century warming phase, c. 1977-96, without benefit of increased man-made CO2. The warmings of the late 19th century and early 20th century were comparable in magnitude to that of the late 20th century, again without greatly increased CO2. The natural, late 20th century warming occurred accidentally while CO2 was rising, but it was preceded by the cooling cycle of the late 1940s to c. 1977, despite rapidly rising CO2 during that interval as well.
Thus, there is no reason to imagine that man-made CO2 actually contributed to the natural warming or cooling cycles of the past more than 300 years. All observed warming and cooling cycles since then have been within normal bounds (century to century fluctuations of one degree C), so no valid way has yet been devised to tease out a human signal from this normal variation. It might well be that the net effect of human activity has been to cool the planet, but in any case, the effect either way is at best negligible.
This doesn’t mean that there is no GHE from increased man-made CO2. It does mean that, if any, it’s not detectable. Perhaps earth’s self-regulating climate system quickly compensates for any such warming with prompt negative feedbacks. Maybe man-made cooling more than compensates for the hypothetical warming. Science doesn’t know. But clearly natural variation is far more important in climate change than growing beneficial plant food from 280 to 400 ppm. Hence it’s impossible to reject the null hypothesis that nothing out of the ordinary happening.
So the supported scientific conclusion, based upon evidence, is that there is no discernible anthropogenic global warming, although there are local effects from human activities such as urban heat islands.
Brandon Once again your illogical statements have been pointed out by many people here. It does no good for me to point them out again. If you think all I did was call you stupid, then you need to add my post to the growing list of things you don’t understand.
I believe it your intention to shut down this thread, by saying such outrageous things that the rest of us just get frustrated and go away. If that is not your intention then you doing a great job of making yourself look stupid.
wow
whoever this brandon fellow is……make the stupid stop. It hurts to read your inane rambling arguments. It’s like you paid for an argument and you want your money’s worth. Another possibility is the meds have run out.
Really dude, take a break.
Glenn,
I wonder why there is never a “Reply” option in any of Brandons posts. Is it this site or was this “exchange” of “ideas” supposed to be uninterrupted? Perhaps a good duel, but worthless. What do you think?
Liked your Monty Python vid BTW. Very good description of the exchange.
D
Reply buttons only go about two levels deep on any thread.
Brandon has a habit of trying to evade his earlier comments which causes lengthy back and forths trying to pin him down to something concrete. Hence most of the posts on any thread that he is involved in go way past the third level.
Let’s keep the ball rolling. Contact your local library and ask them to buy a copy! That way more people can learn about this issue.
Amazon: Paperback edition. Temporarily out of stock.
Congratulations.
The best thing about this high rating, is that a lot of these buyers will be Uber Green Warmists. They will see the comforting title, feel assured that there cannot be anything quite so heretical as a contrarian book, and not find out what this book is about until they start reading.
I bet this book comes as a shock to many readers.
I have struggled through Mann’s book.
It was worth the effort though.
The first 960 pages are quite dull. Just a few ups and downs.
But then it suddenly takes off, about 40 pages from the end.
By the end, I could have sworn that I was reading an altogether different book!!!
I can’t wait to see the movie. I hear it’s going to be a trilogy with Jason Alexander (George Constanza) as the lead.
Reg Nelson — Al Gore will direct — Eugene WR Gallun
Sounds vaguely familiar….
We can all read the comments and make up our own minds.
We can also read the book and make up our own minds.
But here’s a new observation:
In the discussion between Richard S Courtney, Brandon Shollenberger and me, I am fairly sure that Brandon Shollenberger is the one who is politically on the right.
Does that mean that you and perhaps any others are not politically in the wrong?
I would love to have a long conversation about right/left issues, but this blog is mainly about science, so we would have to have another forum for discussion.
However, my question is, what are you trying to infer by this statement? Brandon was thoroughly illogical with some of his statements, and that to me was what was insane about the whole back and forth.
I’m trying to imply that climate science is not a left /right political issue.
Wrongness comes in every shade of the political spectrum.
And that is a novel idea to many on this site.
The Courtney’s have been stung by the valid observation that the vast majority of people who are pushing the AGW scam are also quite vocal in their belief that govt should be bigger and run more of our lives in general.
I remember a UN bigwig who stated a few years back that it didn’t matter whether AGW was true or not, since the solutions being proposed were things that needed doing anyway. That is, there are a lot of liberals who don’t really care about global warming, they are just willing to use any excuse to increase taxes and grow govt.
@MCourtney
That you might find it novel doesn’t make it so for anyone else.
I will agree wrongness can be found in the opinions of some under any given political shade. But it does not follow that all political shades entrain similar amounts of wrongness.
Some political philosophies contain flaws.
Some political philosophies are wrong to their core.
Unfortunately it is true that even many on the right have fallen for the CAGW meme. I have however met some of these alleged right wingers and all I can say about them is what I say whenever someone claims the NAZI were right wing.
Hitler was only to the right compared to Stalin, and National Socialism is still socialism.
schitzree
Not content with this thread having been ravaged by a troll, you join in with this nonsense
Oh dear! Reality does hurt the right. I see MarkW could not resist the temptation to support your falsehoods.
National Socialism is was not and is not socialism. They are at opposite ends of the political spectrum; socialism is left wing and naz11sm is extreme right wing.
As the Oxford English Dictionary states
And the global warming scare was created by the political right (i.e. Margaret Thatcher), was promoted by the right (e.g. the UK Conservative Party, and was adopted for reasons of self-interest by people across the entire political spectrum. Indeed, communist China opposes the global warming scare and is totalitarian so its 1.3billion population alone demonstrates there are more of the left who oppose the scare than there are opponents of the scare from the right.
So, this thread has suffered a thread-bombing troll presenting warmist falsehoods, and now has political right-wingers posting political propaganda falsehoods. If the solar advocates and proselytising atheists join in then the thread will have suffered the full set.
Richard
Richard, Richard, Richard.
I see you are still trying to push the lie that just because the Nazi’s weren’t your type of socialists, that they couldn’t be socialists.
They wanted govt control of business. That’s socialism.
As to your weak attempt to show that they must be right wing because they were totalitarian and anti-Semite, all I have to do is point out that the vast majority of totalitarian regimes of the last century were communist and that a very solid majority, perhaps even a vast majority of anti-semites in today’s world are socialists and communists.
MarkW
No. Clearly, you don’t have a clue what socialism is.
Naz11sm is extreme right wing politics.
And this thread is not about politics.
Richard
Richard.
As usual, you have no clue about the subject at hand. Socialism is an economic creed, and has absolutely nothing to do with whether the government is totalitarian, democratic, anti-semite or vegitarian (as was HitIler).
So yes, the Na – zi party was economically socialist, as their title clearly states. The workers holiday resort was socialist, the party car was the People’s Wagon etc: etc and etc. Sorry, Richard, you are completely wrong, as usual.
Ralpg
“Socialism is an economic creed, and has absolutely nothing to do with whether the government is totalitarian”
Socialism is always socialist; which is to say, groupthink, hive-mind, and approximately totalitarian insofar that you will have no liberty to do what you want to do except in the rare instance that what you want to do is exactly what the group wants you to do.
Since it is impossible to have “group” control things the group will eventually manifest a leader, and the leader will tell the group what to think and do, and that is what they will think and do, not often realising they are being led. At best therefore socialism is a type of “soft” totalitarianism where the pigs, those that are “more equal”, influence the hive-mind.
A totalitarian government might be socialist; and a socialist society will necessarily infringe upon personal liberty which I accept is a hallmark of a totalitarian government.
Richard,
What in N@zi ideology and practice do you imagine made them “right-wing”? The OED is hardly a legitimate source of historical analysis, except for etymology.
They were socialists by definition and action. When the Soviets accepted “socialism in one country” for the time being (without abandoning internationalism), the distinction between Communism and N@azism lacked a difference. Socialists of both international and national flavors persecuted ethnic, religious and class minorities.
It’s a myth favored by Left-wingers that the N@zis were somehow “right-wing”, Their socialist, big government, collectivist, anti-freedom program was the opposite of modern, libertarian conservatism, which advocates small government and individual liberty.
From what evidence do you make your conclusion that Brandon is conservative? Not liking him is not evidence.
I haven’t seen anything to indicate his political affiliation in either direction.
Regardless, so what?
So what? That is the point.
Climate science is not a left / right political issue.
He has stated in the past that he is not a socialist, to the right of my father and I.
Not saying he is a member of the Conservative party. He hasn’t said that.
Mark,
I don’t know Brandon’s personal political views, but he appears on this constitutional conservative or Libertarian site:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/18300-climategate-3-0-university-threatens-blogger-for-exposing-97-consensus-fraud
Climate Science isn’t a left right issue. That doesn’t excuse the fact that most, perhaps even vast majority of those who take the alarmist position are on the left side of the spectrum.
And finding one warmist who may be somewhat conservative does not disprove that position.
MarkW
You assert
True, “finding one warmist who may be somewhat conservative does not disprove that position”.
But your assertion is disproved by the opposition to the alarmism by the 1.3 billion communists in China. And, yes, they do oppose the alarmism because China is totalitarian so they are nor permitted to do anything other than support their government’s opposition to the scare.
But, I suppose you could try to pretend communists are not left wing because you do pretend that naz1s are not right wing (these two claims are equally ridiculous).
Richard
Richard, are you truly this desperate.
1) Are you actually claiming that everyone who lives in a communist country is a communist?
2) Are you claiming that everyone who lives in China is informed enough on global warming to actually have an opinion?
3) Examine the economic policies followed by the Nazi’s. Left wing to the core.
MarkW
I am not “desperate”. As always, I am factual.
As I said
In addition to not knowing what socialism is and not knowing that Naz11sm is extreme right wing, it seems you are now also claiming you don’t know what totalitarianism is.
This thread is not about politics and that gives you a valid reason to stop digging.
Richard
Amusing thread folks:
I see the “attack dogs” are out for Brandon. On your “own” I see too (better do some checking Glenn999).
IMHO you are the injured party Brandon.
Brandon points out that the book states…
“This again shows that atmospheric CO2 does not drive atmospheric temperature change.”
I would just like to point out where Anthony stands on CO2’s GHE………..
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/01/weekend-open-thread-4/#comment-1164308
The Watts comment reads as follows:
“Mr. Postma and everybody else involved in this idiotic discussion over “magic gas”
The greenhouse effect exists, get over it. The only questions are magnitude, sensitives [sic], and feedbacks.
This thread is closed, along with a warning to any other “Slayers” out there posing under other names (Doug Cotton this means you).
Your GHG science is pointless, wrong, and unwelcome here. Take it somehwere [sic] else, and please, be as upset as you wish. – Anthony Watts”
See the point he makes about “Slayers”?
dbstealey may like to take note regarding Goddard’s “slaying” of the gas laws to laughably claim the heat of
Venus is due to PV=nRT showing that if P increases, so does T (for the scientifically challenged ONLY when something in there stops the V (gas) from expanding – space doesn’t).
Also Roy Spencer has the same opinion of “Slayers”.
Here he shows how you can demonstrate the GHE at work….
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/04/direct-evidence-of-earths-greenhouse-effect/
Really folks, keep it real.
Straw man argument. Keep it logical.
Toneb
You say
I have followed this post in its entirety and see no “attack dogs”.
And the only injury suffered by Brandon Shollenberger is the self-inflicted public display of his several problems.
You try to substantiate your support for Brandon Shollenberger by saying
No! Brandon Shollenberger did NOT “point out” that factually accurate statement: Brandon Shollenberger claimed that factually accurate statement is incorrect.
And our host does not dispute that factually accurate statement.
It seems that you have the same inability to read as Brandon Shollenberger.
The phrase “does not drive” does NOT mean “does not affect”.
I suppose my pointing out your post is plain wrong in every detail will be interpreted by you as me being an “attack dog”. In fact, it is merely an expression of my annoyance that an anonymous troll would try to pretend there has been any substance in anything asserted in this thread by Brandon Shollenberger.
Richard
Mr Courtney:
That’s just the point – it is NOT a factually correct statement (from climate sciences POV). It quite clearly says “… does not DRIVE …”. Saying it does not mean “does not effect” misses my point. In climate science “drive” has a specific meaning – a special action in warming. There are either drivers or feed-backs. Feed-backs “change” climate but drivers drive. CO2 is a driver in AGW – the cause. It is that that I, and I think Mr Scollenberger are arguing. It is comprehension of the scientific meaning of “drive” and not of any other.
Of course you disagree with much of the science, but surely, as does Anthony – just the degree of the drive – not that a GHE is not the driver.
Toneb
Stop talking bollocks.
A “forcing” does not “drive” although it may be said to be one of many drivers.
Ask when you don’t know and those of us who do know and understand the subject can explain for you.
And I agree with science. I made my living doing it throughout my adult life.
It was bad enough when Brandon Shollenberger was disrupting this thread with nonsensical twaddle but at least he had the guts to put his name to his posts. You don’t even rise to that level.
Richard
I downloaded a copy to my tablet this morning, and just tried to order a copy for my dad…sadly, Amazon is out of stock at the moment. Hope it gets here by Father’s Day!
There is no doubt in my mind that certain persons are actually paid a salary to come to skeptic sites to try to “derail”. They are extremely worried about sites like WUWT, P Homewood Real Science ect. They are very well funded and organized, but of course they only help the skeptic cause and probably help turn AGW believers into skeptics. They still don t realize this but when they do they will no longer be posting here mark my words LOL
Mr. Brandon simply likes arguing nothing, argues for the sake of arguing and likes wasting peoples time…That is all I got out of the whole thing.
yes, yes, yes
here ya go brandon
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/1cf5c7600c/monty-python-argument-clinic-from-montypythonfan
It was recently revealed that Russia has been funding troll farms. Mostly they are focused on trying to clean up Putin’s image and deny the various atrocities that Russia has been committing.
Beyond that, it’s well known that Russia has been funding various green and anti-drilling groups in both Europe and the US.
Actually I very much doubt Brandoon is a paid climate troll. For one, he uses his own name and has posted enough info around the net that it couldn’t be fake. REAL climate trolls give themselves names like ‘a fan of more discourse’ or ‘village idiot’.
I think Brandoon is just a very passionate and opinionated lukewarmer who confuses his opinion with proven fact. He’s hardly the only one to do so.
You are right, he isn’t. He fired the bullet John Cook had to bite:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/05/20/university-of-queensland-doubles-down-on-shollenberger-with-a-straw-man-argument-on-confidentiality-for-names-already-listed-in-the-paper/
Brandon was a frequent contributor in past and has made some salient points in this thread. However, he has made some indefensible remarks as well, which has me wondering if he isn’t having us on, playing the devil’s advocate, or if during his prolonged absence…( just speculative blanks to be filled.)
Climate Change: The Facts currently sitting at #94 on Amazon’s best-seller Top 100 list, bouncing around the 90s all day from #98 first thing this morning, to high of #91 an hour or two ago, when Strunk & White’s classic The Elements of Style broke into the top 100 briefly.
Other than a few classics of literature, the rest of the top 100 is an unremarkable collection, with several coloring books in there, so it really is a remarkable achievement by the host and his co-authors to get such a serious book into the Top 100 Amazon Best Sellers.
I also meant to add that, despite its minor fluctuations up and down today, the book has had a green upward arrow the entire time.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the green arrow is an average, 24 or 48 hours.
So I read the back and forth between the twit and the regulars. I noticed three very good points that might have gone unnoticed by some people.
Point 1 — We can not measure the mean temperature of the planet to within a degree of two now and it was much worse 100 years ago. This is besides the allegations of cheating on the part of the bureaucrats running the government funded data sets.
Point 2 — There is no proof that there has been any warming since 1900 till now. There has been since 1860 or so we think, but no proof of warming since 1900.
Point 3 — If there has been any warming since 1900, there is no proof that anthropogenic CO2 is the cause of the warming. (if any)
I would add on to the above points that there is very credible evidence that much more CO2 in the atmosphere than we have now would be a very good thing for plant life and that several more degrees of warming would be very good for life in general. I was in a meeting today with several people who had moved from the upper northeast US to central Florida seeking warmer weather. They seem to have survived a very large increase in average temperature so far. 🙂
Well said.
I’d comment though that quite possibly the land surface was better sampled 100 years ago than now, with colonial stations more numerous and better maintained and observed, and all with similar equipment so that fewer adjustments were needed.
The oceans of course are better sampled now, but still with many issues.
As I’ve written before, there apparently was some modest warming in the late 19th century, and then another spurt between (and possibly during) the World Wars, followed by cooling during the Cold War until the late ’70s.
From looking at raw data, IMO there has been little to no global warming since the peak of the c. 1918-47 hot spell. The first part of the late 20th century warming just clawed back the cooling of the ’40s-70s. Whether it beat the Dust Bowl years or not no one can say with certainty because the data have been so bent, folded, spindled, mutilated, stepped on, mutated, homogenized, extrapolated, guessed at with extreme bias and adjusted beyond all recognition.
I’d agree that some portions of the US were better sampled 100 years ago, but there were large portions that were population densities were way lower back then and as a result those areas had fewer stations compared to the present.
The same issue exists for most of the rest of the world as well.
I do agree that for the most part, maintenance was better back then.
Oceanic records on the other hand were sparser and more problematic 100 years ago.
It’s at #100 now, according to Amazon when i pull it up, but well done!