There are problems with oil, gas and coal, but their benefits for people—and the planet—are beyond dispute
From The Wall Street Journal, 14 March 2015, via The GWPF
By Matt Ridley
The environmental movement has advanced three arguments in recent years for giving up fossil fuels: (1) that we will soon run out of them anyway; (2) that alternative sources of energy will price them out of the marketplace; and (3) that we cannot afford the climate consequences of burning them.
These days, not one of the three arguments is looking very healthy. In fact, a more realistic assessment of our energy and environmental situation suggests that, for decades to come, we will continue to rely overwhelmingly on the fossil fuels that have contributed so dramatically to the world’s prosperity and progress.
In 2013, about 87% of the energy that the world consumed came from fossil fuels, a figure that—remarkably—was unchanged from 10 years before. This roughly divides into three categories of fuel and three categories of use: oil used mainly for transport, gas used mainly for heating, and coal used mainly for electricity.
Over this period, the overall volume of fossil-fuel consumption has increased dramatically, but with an encouraging environmental trend: a diminishing amount of carbon-dioxide emissions per unit of energy produced. The biggest contribution to decarbonizing the energy system has been the switch from high-carbon coal to lower-carbon gas in electricity generation.
On a global level, renewable energy sources such as wind and solar have contributed hardly at all to the drop in carbon emissions, and their modest growth has merely made up for a decline in the fortunes of zero-carbon nuclear energy. (The reader should know that I have an indirect interest in coal through the ownership of land in Northern England on which it is mined, but I nonetheless applaud the displacement of coal by gas in recent years.)
The argument that fossil fuels will soon run out is dead, at least for a while. The collapse of the price of oil over the past six months is the result of abundance: an inevitable consequence of the high oil prices of recent years, which stimulated innovation in hydraulic fracturing, horizontal drilling, seismology and information technology. The U.S.—the country with the oldest and most developed hydrocarbon fields—has found itself once again, surprisingly, at the top of the energy-producing league, rivaling Saudi Arabia in oil and Russia in gas.
The shale genie is now out of the bottle. Even if the current low price drives out some high-cost oil producers—in the North Sea, Canada, Russia, Iran and offshore, as well as in America—shale drillers can step back in whenever the price rebounds. As Mark Hill of Allegro Development Corporation argued last week, the frackers are currently experiencing their own version of Moore’s law: a rapid fall in the cost and time it takes to drill a well, along with a rapid rise in the volume of hydrocarbons they are able to extract.
And the shale revolution has yet to go global. When it does, oil and gas in tight rock formations will give the world ample supplies of hydrocarbons for decades, if not centuries. Lurking in the wings for later technological breakthroughs is methane hydrate, a seafloor source of gas that exceeds in quantity all the world’s coal, oil and gas put together.
So those who predict the imminent exhaustion of fossil fuels are merely repeating the mistakes of the U.S. presidential commission that opined in 1922 that “already the output of gas has begun to wane. Production of oil cannot long maintain its present rate.” Or President Jimmy Carter when he announced on television in 1977 that “we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade.”
That fossil fuels are finite is a red herring. The Atlantic Ocean is finite, but that does not mean that you risk bumping into France if you row out of a harbor in Maine. The buffalo of the American West were infinite, in the sense that they could breed, yet they came close to extinction. It is an ironic truth that no nonrenewable resource has ever run dry, while renewable resources—whales, cod, forests, passenger pigeons—have frequently done so.
The second argument for giving up fossil fuels is that new rivals will shortly price them out of the market. But it is not happening. The great hope has long been nuclear energy, but even if there is a rush to build new nuclear power stations over the next few years, most will simply replace old ones due to close. The world’s nuclear output is down from 6% of world energy consumption in 2003 to 4% today. It is forecast to inch back up to just 6.7% by 2035, according the Energy Information Administration.
Nuclear’s problem is cost. In meeting the safety concerns of environmentalists, politicians and regulators added requirements for extra concrete, steel and pipework, and even more for extra lawyers, paperwork and time. The effect was to make nuclear plants into huge and lengthy boondoggles with no competition or experimentation to drive down costs. Nuclear is now able to compete with fossil fuels only when it is subsidized.
ILLUSTRATION: HARRY CAMPBELL
As for renewable energy, hydroelectric is the biggest and cheapest supplier, but it has the least capacity for expansion. Technologies that tap the energy of waves and tides remain unaffordable and impractical, and most experts think that this won’t change in a hurry. Geothermal is a minor player for now. And bioenergy—that is, wood, ethanol made from corn or sugar cane, or diesel made from palm oil—is proving an ecological disaster: It encourages deforestation and food-price hikes that cause devastation among the world’s poor, and per unit of energy produced, it creates even more carbon dioxide than coal.
Wind power, for all the public money spent on its expansion, has inched up to—wait for it—1% of world energy consumption in 2013. Solar, for all the hype, has not even managed that: If we round to the nearest whole number, it accounts for 0% of world energy consumption.
Both wind and solar are entirely reliant on subsidies for such economic viability as they have. World-wide, the subsidies given to renewable energy currently amount to roughly $10 per gigajoule: These sums are paid by consumers to producers, so they tend to go from the poor to the rich, often to landowners (I am a landowner and can testify that I receive and refuse many offers of risk-free wind and solar subsidies).
It is true that some countries subsidize the use of fossil fuels, but they do so at a much lower rate—the world average is about $1.20 per gigajoule—and these are mostly subsidies for consumers (not producers), so they tend to help the poor, for whom energy costs are a disproportionate share of spending.
The costs of renewable energy are coming down, especially in the case of solar. But even if solar panels were free, the power they produce would still struggle to compete with fossil fuel—except in some very sunny locations—because of all the capital equipment required to concentrate and deliver the energy. This is to say nothing of the great expanses of land on which solar facilities must be built and the cost of retaining sufficient conventional generator capacity to guarantee supply on a dark, cold, windless evening.
The two fundamental problems that renewables face are that they take up too much space and produce too little energy. Consider Solar Impulse, the solar-powered airplane now flying around the world. Despite its huge wingspan (similar to a 747), slow speed and frequent stops, the only cargo that it can carry is the pilots themselves. That is a good metaphor for the limitations of renewables.
To run the U.S. economy entirely on wind would require a wind farm the size of Texas, California and New Mexico combined—backed up by gas on windless days. To power it on wood would require a forest covering two-thirds of the U.S., heavily and continually harvested.
John Constable, who will head a new Energy Institute at the University of Buckingham in Britain, points out that the trickle of energy that human beings managed to extract from wind, water and wood before the Industrial Revolution placed a great limit on development and progress. The incessant toil of farm laborers generated so little surplus energy in the form of food for men and draft animals that the accumulation of capital, such as machinery, was painfully slow. Even as late as the 18th century, this energy-deprived economy was sufficient to enrich daily life for only a fraction of the population.
Our old enemy, the second law of thermodynamics, is the problem here. As a teenager’s bedroom generally illustrates, left to its own devices, everything in the world becomes less ordered, more chaotic, tending toward “entropy,” or thermodynamic equilibrium. To reverse this tendency and make something complex, ordered and functional requires work. It requires energy.
The more energy you have, the more intricate, powerful and complex you can make a system. Just as human bodies need energy to be ordered and functional, so do societies. In that sense, fossil fuels were a unique advance because they allowed human beings to create extraordinary patterns of order and complexity—machines and buildings—with which to improve their lives.
The result of this great boost in energy is what the economic historian and philosopher Deirdre McCloskey calls the Great Enrichment. In the case of the U.S., there has been a roughly 9,000% increase in the value of goods and services available to the average American since 1800, almost all of which are made with, made of, powered by or propelled by fossil fuels.
Still, more than a billion people on the planet have yet to get access to electricity and to experience the leap in living standards that abundant energy brings. This is not just an inconvenience for them: Indoor air pollution from wood fires kills four million people a year. The next time that somebody at a rally against fossil fuels lectures you about her concern for the fate of her grandchildren, show her a picture of an African child dying today from inhaling the dense muck of a smoky fire.
Notice, too, the ways in which fossil fuels have contributed to preserving the planet. As the American author and fossil-fuels advocate Alex Epstein points out in a bravely unfashionable book, “The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels,” the use of coal halted and then reversed the deforestation of Europe and North America. The turn to oil halted the slaughter of the world’s whales and seals for their blubber. Fertilizer manufactured with gas halved the amount of land needed to produce a given amount of food, thus feeding a growing population while sparing land for wild nature.
To throw away these immense economic, environmental and moral benefits, you would have to have a very good reason. The one most often invoked today is that we are wrecking the planet’s climate. But are we?
Although the world has certainly warmed since the 19th century, the rate of warming has been slow and erratic. There has been no increase in the frequency or severity of storms or droughts, no acceleration of sea-level rise. Arctic sea ice has decreased, but Antarctic sea ice has increased. At the same time, scientists are agreed that the extra carbon dioxide in the air has contributed to an improvement in crop yields and a roughly 14% increase in the amount of all types of green vegetation on the planet since 1980.
That carbon-dioxide emissions should cause warming is not a new idea. In 1938, the British scientist [Guy Callendar] thought that he could already detect warming as a result of carbon-dioxide emissions. He reckoned, however, that this was “likely to prove beneficial to mankind” by shifting northward the climate where cultivation was possible.
Only in the 1970s and 1980s did scientists begin to say that the mild warming expected as a direct result of burning fossil fuels—roughly a degree Celsius per doubling of carbon-dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere—might be greatly amplified by water vapor and result in dangerous warming of two to four degrees a century or more. That “feedback” assumption of high “sensitivity” remains in virtually all of the mathematical models used to this day by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC.
And yet it is increasingly possible that it is wrong. As Patrick Michaels of the libertarian Cato Institute has written, since 2000, 14 peer-reviewed papers, published by 42 authors, many of whom are key contributors to the reports of the IPCC, have concluded that climate sensitivity is low because net feedbacks are modest. They arrive at this conclusion based on observed temperature changes, ocean-heat uptake and the balance between warming and cooling emissions (mainly sulfate aerosols). On average, they find sensitivity to be 40% lower than the models on which the IPCC relies.
If these conclusions are right, they would explain the failure of the Earth’s surface to warm nearly as fast as predicted over the past 35 years, a time when—despite carbon-dioxide levels rising faster than expected—the warming rate has never reached even two-tenths of a degree per decade and has slowed down to virtually nothing in the past 15 to 20 years. This is one reason the latest IPCC report did not give a “best estimate” of sensitivity and why it lowered its estimate of near-term warming.
Most climate scientists remain reluctant to abandon the models and take the view that the current “hiatus” has merely delayed rapid warming. A turning point to dangerously rapid warming could be around the corner, even though it should have shown up by now. So it would be wise to do something to cut our emissions, so long as that something does not hurt the poor and those struggling to reach a modern standard of living.
We should encourage the switch from coal to gas in the generation of electricity, provide incentives for energy efficiency, get nuclear power back on track and keep developing solar power and electricity storage. We should also invest in research on ways to absorb carbon dioxide from the air, by fertilizing the ocean or fixing it through carbon capture and storage. Those measures all make sense. And there is every reason to promote open-ended research to find some unexpected new energy technology.
The one thing that will not work is the one thing that the environmental movement insists upon: subsidizing wealthy crony capitalists to build low-density, low-output, capital-intensive, land-hungry renewable energy schemes, while telling the poor to give up the dream of getting richer through fossil fuels.
Mr. Ridley is the author of “The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves” and a member of the British House of Lords. He is a member of the GWPF’s Academic Advisory Council.
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an encouraging environmental trend: a diminishing amount of carbon-dioxide emissions per unit of energy produced
No, that’s not an encouraging environmental trend. Less carbon dioxide means less plant food, which means less oxygen released to the atmosphere.
We should encourage the switch from coal to gas in the generation of electricity, provide incentives for energy efficiency, get nuclear power back on track and keep developing solar power and electricity storage. We should also invest in research on ways to absorb carbon dioxide from the air, by fertilizing the ocean or fixing it through carbon capture and storage. Those measures all make sense.
Since carbon dioxide isn’t a problem, the development of ocean fertilization and carbon capture and storage in order to sequester carbon dioxide does not make sense.
Agree Katherine.
Some thoughts.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/02/11/national-academy-of-science-demands-equal-access-to-the-climate-trough-for-geoengineering/#comment-1859354
[excerpt]
“Furthermore, increased atmospheric CO2 from whatever cause is clearly beneficial to humanity and the environment. Earth’s atmosphere is clearly CO2 deficient and continues to decline over geological time. In fact, atmospheric CO2 at this time is too low, dangerously low for the longer term survival of carbon-based life on Earth.
More Ice Ages, which are inevitable unless geo-engineering can prevent them, will cause atmospheric CO2 concentrations on Earth to decline to the point where photosynthesis slows and ultimately ceases. This would devastate the descendants of most current life on Earth, which is carbon-based and to which, I suggest, we have a significant moral obligation.
Atmospheric and dissolved oceanic CO2 is the feedstock for all carbon-based life on Earth. More CO2 is better. Within reasonable limits, a lot more CO2 is a lot better.”
I see two problems for humanity and the environment in the next very few thousand years:
1. Another Ice Age
and
2. CO2-deficiency (if not in this next Ice Age, then in the following ones).
@K & AR
Yes that’s right, and I will add this corollary ……
There is an inevitable consequence to the way in which
sea-life absorbs carbon from the oceanic gas, which
means that it is sequestered for millions of years in the
form of sedimentary limestones, The only way to then
liberate the life giving gas CO2 once again from these
rocks is by subduction and volcanic release. This is a
very, very, very long process. Inevitably most Carbon
will end up as limestone rocks, but however don’t despair,
because so long as the sea does contain large amounts
of CO2 it can replenish the atmosphere. for millions of
years to come.
The oceans contain about 50 times more CO 2 than the
atmosphere and 19 times more than the land biosphere.
CO 2 moves between the atmosphere and the ocean by
molecular diffusion when there is a difference between
CO 2 gas pressure (pCO 2 ) between the atmosphere
and oceans. For example, when the atmospheric pCO 2
is lower than the surface ocean, CO 2 diffuses across
the sea-air boundary into the atmosphere.
CO2 & Climate Scares are ALL to do with making money
in some fashiopn from the various bogus schemes, and
if the truth be told, it is about control, taxation, and the
prospect of a new UN Tyranny imposed on the peoples
of the World, by the scamsters at their forthcoming
Paris, France, Summit.
Mr. Ridley looks with a sincere, but yet blinkered view
of the scenario. He sees only the fossil fuel argument,
and its ramifications as described by the alarmist faction.
Yet both he and the alarmist faction, do not see that they
are played, as actors, in a high drama, which is actually
a distraction from the true agenda of World Governance
by the UN. Remember it was the UNIPCC who started this
distraction, as a way to get power and funding.
Monckton Warns us about UN Tyranny
Trailer for Monckton’s movie
George Orwell on his deathbed warns us what could happen
isn’t this what we are seeing now?
we live in interesting times.
It’s interesting that Google had plastered suggestions by detractors at the end of his Climate of Freedom videos. one can only speculate just why that is perhaps…… some people have a lot to lose by Monckton’s exposure of this Cabal and it’s devious projects such as :
UN USA Young Persons Brainwashing Association [sarc]
http://www.unausa.org/about-us/sponsors
WHL
I have no time to run the numbers, but I do not think we have millions of years left for carbon-based life on Earth.
Over time, CO2 is ~permanently sequestered in carbonate rocks, so concentrations get lower and lower. During an Ice Age, atmospheric CO2 concentrations drop to very low levels due to solution in cold oceans, etc. Below a certain atmospheric CO2 concentration, terrestrial photosynthesis slows and shuts down. I suppose life in the oceans can carry on but terrestrial life is done.
So when will this happen – in the next Ice Age a few thousands years hence, or the one after that ~100,000 years later, or the one after that?
In geologic time, we are talking the blink of an eye before terrestrial life on Earth ceases due to CO2 starvation.
________________________
I wrote the following on this subject, posted on Icecap.us:
On Climate Science, Global Cooling, Ice Ages and Geo-Engineering:
[excerpt]
Furthermore, increased atmospheric CO2 from whatever cause is clearly beneficial to humanity and the environment. Earth’s atmosphere is clearly CO2 deficient and continues to decline over geological time. In fact, atmospheric CO2 at this time is too low, dangerously low for the longer term survival of carbon-based life on Earth.
More Ice Ages, which are inevitable unless geo-engineering can prevent them, will cause atmospheric CO2 concentrations on Earth to decline to the point where photosynthesis slows and ultimately ceases. This would devastate the descendants of most current life on Earth, which is carbon-based and to which, I suggest, we have a significant moral obligation.
Atmospheric and dissolved oceanic CO2 is the feedstock for all carbon-based life on Earth. More CO2 is better. Within reasonable limits, a lot more CO2 is a lot better.
As a devoted fan of carbon-based life on Earth, I feel it is my duty to advocate on our behalf. To be clear, I am not prejudiced against non-carbon-based life forms, but I really do not know any of them well enough to form an opinion. They could be very nice. 🙂
Best, Allan
.
Thank you for this excellent essay by Matt Ridley.
Ridley’s essay reaches the same two main conclusions as our 2002 APEGA paper.
http://www.apega.ca/members/publications/peggs/WEB11_02/kyoto_pt.htm
“Climate science does not support the theory of catastrophic human-made global warming – the alleged warming crisis does not exist.”
“The ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.”
I suggest the importance of such conclusions rests on two criteria:
1. Was the conclusion clear, significant and correct?
and
2. When was the conclusion stated?
It was obvious even in 2002 that climate sensitivity to CO2 was low, 1 degree C or lower (if it exists at all, since CO2 lags temperature at all measured time scales).
It was also obvious in 2002 that wind and solar power were too intermittent and too diffuse to be cost-effective, and also obvious that fuel-from-food was a disaster.
Since then, more than a trillion dollars has been squandered on foolish green energy schemes.
After about 18 years of “the Pause” in average global temperatures, it is clear that climate scientists in the warmist camp have a consistently worthless predictive track record – all their dire predictions of runaway global warming and weather weirding have failed to materialize.
What comes next, after “the Pause” – more global warming or global cooling?
The warmist camp says more global warming. I say global cooling – which we also predicted in 2002.
Go with the track record, good people. Bundle up.
Regards to all, Allan
Very well stated. Spot on. I’ll down rate Ridley’s essay to less than excellent due to misspelling the name of Guy Callendar. Callendar’s work if very impressive. For example
http://climateaudit.org/2013/07/26/guy-callendar-vs-the-gcms/
[Better to just point out errors so they can be corrected. .mod]
“Callendar’s work if very impressive.”
Did you mean to say, Callendar’s work is very impressive?
If anyone think CS is 3C, they are seriously on drugs or in hock.
Brilliantly written article. Loved it.
Matt Ridley says: “Our old enemy, the second law of thermodynamics, is the problem here…everything in the world becomes less ordered, more chaotic, tending toward “entropy,” or thermodynamic equilibrium. To reverse this tendency and make something complex, ordered and functional requires work. It requires energy.” Matt is right, sort of but this is sort of confusing. The second law of thermodynamics says in “natural thermodynamic processes,” the sum of the entropies of the defined collection of thermodynamic systems increases and become “more disordered.” Perpetual motion machines are impossible. A wheel will only continue turning indefinitely if work is done. That is what Matt is saying. Doing work requires expending more energy … even in efficient engines work is “lost” – becomes unavailable. In the long run, the wheel stops turning… when carbon fuel is no longer available, when the sun becomes a dark star, when the earth stops spinning in orbit. The consensus types would have us reverse development of modern times since the Industrial Revolution, and go back to the dark ages. Just don’t try to take their cars and cellphones from them. Me – I am more optimistic about the future.
Fracking is very poorly managed. They didn’t have to do much management when oil and gas prices were high. Now tech magazines are full of articles on how to better manage production – both the drilling stage and the well management stage. The prices for fracked wells are still coming down. And the cost per delivered BTU (joule) is still declining.
BTW Moore’s Law is just one example of the “S” shaped development curve. (note: Moore’s Law is starting to run out of gas – it is running up against fundamental limits)
Fracing has been “managed” for over fifty years.
Well the current drilling in shale country is poorly managed. Which explains the great number of articles in technical journals on how to manage it better. A recent one I saw was on how to reduce the number of truck rolls to a well site to one every 7, 14, or 21 days. This is typical:
http://www.wellservicingmagazine.com/featured-articles/2013/03/new-technologies-make-fracking-more-efficient/
Suffice it to say, those who hate fossil fuels hate humanity.
Mr Cobb, Perhaps:
Those who hate Humanity and hate prosperity, hate fossil fuels.
No mention of either LENR (perhaps Mr. Ridley is a skeptic re LENR) or Lockheed’s “compact fusion” technology. Either, or both, could pull the economic rug from under fossil fuels (i.e. cause their prices to drop substantially). If you are at all optimistic about these 2 emerging energy possibilities this entire article would need to be rewritten.
I like Polywell Fusion.
In roughly 30 years LENR has failed to go from lab curiosity to even a small power plant. You have to ask yourself why the scientists involved are not making money hand over fist from their findings.
Well, yes and no. ‘Cold Fusion’ hit the headlines 26 years ago, in 1989, and didn’t morph into LENR and quasi-respectability until after 2004. So, let’s say 10 years, rather than 30. And as far as I can make out, nobody really understands the source of the ‘excess energy’ or the underlying atomic/chemical process(es) that generate it. So the path to commercialization is not yet open, hence no hand-over-fist money-making just yet. I’m no swivel-eyed proponent; I just check in on the research once in a while to see what’s happening. If you take it as given that there is an underlying mechanism for the ‘excess energy’, then the implication is that the engineering will eventually be worked out. I guess we’ll see. Certainly, the timeframes for the debate about ‘global warming’ and the role of fossil fuels are long enough to allow for some kind of definitive resolution of whether LENR can or cannot contribute.
What’s the status of Polywell?
Polywell status: Government funding has ended. No show stoppers. They are looking to make a deal to continue the work. Trouble is that for the amount of money they need they will have to give up control. They don’t want to do that. There are several independent groups also working on it but none is well funded and IMO the quality of the people involved is not the highest – I could be wrong.
“The deep hot biosphere : the myth of fossil fuels” by Thomas Gold
A very good reason to switch to NG from coal for electricity is that NG has much less of the other pollutants coal produces: ash, mercury, NOx and SOx. However, NG is more volatile in supply, can’t be easily stored, and is not as unlimited as coal in terms of supply, so is not as good a base for generating electricity.
Great article by Matt Ridley: a devastating analysis that enjoys the benefit of being bloody accurate, with (imo) just one exception: the suggestion of geo-engineering the oceans.
Matt; no, no, no!
There is ZERO evidence geo-engineering is either needed or plausible, certainly not at present.
Bar that hiccup it’s a superb article which will take flak from rabid Greens, precisely because it’s so darn good.
“We should also invest in research on ways to
absorb carbon dioxide from the air, by fertilizing
the ocean or fixing it through carbon capture
and storage. Those measures all make sense.”
…… So said Mr. Ridley
These are the weasel words of the squirming pseudo-skeptic.
Oh yes says Mr. Ridley, coal is good, but carbon is bad, especially
when combined with oxygen, to form the dreaded temperature
multiplying, demon gas, Carbon-gasp-dioxide….aaaaahhhrrrrghh,
We must sequester the gas by fixing it forever with Carbon Capture,
As for geo-engineering oceans by pumping in CO2, how would that
work exactly, considering that CO2 is effervescing from the oceans
in immeasurably gargantuan volumes. What a faux prospectus,
Excuse me, whilst I pop down to the old coal mine on my property,
and get a scuttle or two of the dirty black stuff to stick in my boiler,
old bean, dontcha know. Fossil fuels certainly saved my world.
Toodle pip !
Carbon dioxide sequestration should be limited to beer, ale and sparkling wines. Ok, soda too.
wunhunglo, but we know CO2 has a net positive effect on mankind for at least for the next 50-75 years. Even the IPCC like ideologue consensus tree huggers agree with this. It is only the last 25 years of the millennium that “the hockey stick” predicts CO2 rising to levels which cause negative impact on mankind. So we are arguing about stopping the positive effects of CO2 now before they become negative effects … I hope I am saying this clearly. But on the other hand it is becoming increasingly clear that the models are bad and do not portray attribution and by the way also do a particularly lousy job of modeling the feedbacks e.g,. moisture and clouds that are Nature’s built-in control mechanism to protect mankind from runaway climate change…. and yet the IPCC like ideologues fail to acknowledge the models are indeed lousy.
@DW
you said
” CO2 rising to levels which cause negative impact on mankind. So we are arguing about stopping the positive effects of CO2 now before they become negative effects … ”
What negative effects?
CO2 has no direct relationship to the Earth’s average temperature.
This is why Mr. Ridley is a fool, to even consider CCS or Sea-o-engineering,
See historical chart …..
Rud,
Oil was discovered in the Bakken in 1951 and first described by J. W. Nordquist in 1953.
In 1999 Leigh Price estimated 271-503 BB. in the field. In 1951, it was barely worth drilling.
Technology evolved estimates of recoverable oil continue to rise.
wunhunglo, thank you for the reference which is interesting. The chart is from Ruddiman’s web site and Pagani paper is in Science mag. I would not propose cutting the near term benefits it is what the greens would want to force you to do. Frankly, scientists do not understand climate attribution / sensitivity well enough at this time to do anything. It is a “wicked problem” which I described simply as being unsolvable and many dimensional, more degrees of freedom than can be solved with simple temperature = f(greenhouse gases). If you think about it that is what greens and the official body IPCC is asking you to accept and how naïve is that.
listen folks if nuclear power could compete solely on safety and economical production of power it is in a class by itself at the top for the efficient production of electricity. The nuclear industry has suffered under a regulatory burden and in a legal morass that is unprecedented in the history of technology. I heard somewhere on good authority that the paperwork to build a nuclear power plant WEIGHED as much as all the concrete and steel. Onerous to be sure, wasteful and costly also. It’s the way nukes have been made uneconomical. Death by regulation (or a million cuts if you prefer). There are Henny Penny’s at every turn to bring legal action at every phase from ore extraction to siting to final deposition of byproduct. Insane!
If a tenth of the administrative effort to smooth the way as was for solar and wind we could be pretty well have replaced coal fired facilities and be well on our way to a sensible energy grid without rolling black outs and using oil and natural gas were they make sense
Agree completely. It’s truly sad what has been done to fission based electricity.
it looks like nuclear power strategy was worked out something like this ?
“Indoor air pollution from wood fires kills four million people a year”
Show me the bodies…
Is this a modeled projection or body count. What is the population group in the study. How many burned to death and how many died of smoke inhalation. Did the smoke contributed to global warming if so did the figure include the modeled no. of deaths from sea rise and glacier melt.
You sound as though you know how to conduct a scientific study. Are you available to replace Pres. Obama’s “science” advisor?
You may have missed my sarcasm. Available, yes, would I accept, no. I’m not a ideological puppet.