Dr. Spencer asks the question: What do we really know about Global Warming?
This is from Wednesday morning July 9th.
This is well worth watching, and I get a mention. Some of the graphs he presents are not only hilarious for their satire of the issue, but are valuable in demonstrating that correlation is not causation.
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Chuck L:
At July 14, 2014 at 6:23 am you ask me
The short-term lag of CO2 changes behind temperature changes is between ~5 and ~9 months depending on latitude. The seminal work of Kuo et al. determined the lag at Mauna Loa to be 150 +/- 6 days.
I don’t know a published error estimate of the typical lag of CO2 behind temperature at longer time scales which is indicated by ice core data. Eyeballing suggests about 800 years +/- ~100 years for the Greenland ice cores.
I hope that helps.
Richard
“…valuable in demonstrating that correlation is not causation.”
Well, yeah, but Dr Spencer misses the obvious:
there does seem to be a strong implication
that a warming ocean attracts Extra Terrestrial Aliens.
Just sayin’…
Concluding question by Roy Spencer in his ICCC9 talk, “So, given all this evidence … why aren’t scientists advocating producing MORE carbon dioxide?”
Roy Spencer’s answer to that question and the final statement of his talk, “The driving force behind the global warming debate isn’t science”.
– – – – – – –
Thank you Roy Spencer for contributing to critical analysis of the climate science issues.
I agree that the driving force behind the global warming debate isn’t valid science, but it is what Feynman characterized as the ritual mimicking of science; it is, in his words, a “cargo cult ‘science’. ”
Also, I suggest that it is an attempt to make science subservient to pre-science ideology; an attempt to make science subservient to mere myth.
John
I watched many of the presentations via the live stream, congratulations to all involved, especially the WUWT regulars, Anthony, Roy, Willis and Christopher (in no particular order).
Thanks Anthony for making this presentation available. Roy Spencer’s succinct summary of the “Global Warming Issue”, is one of the best I have seen for all audiences and I would highly recommended it and its circulation.
Based on the facts: Why aren’t scientists, environmentalists, politicians, the media, and concerned citizens advocating the production of MORE CO2 rather than the insane warmists policies that will not work to produce less or no CO2? The so called skeptics need to thoughtfully change the conversation. Facts and logic matter. The so called skeptics will win every debate if it is fact and logic based.
The real problem is not AGW. The real problem is not CO2 emissions. The real problem is Western countries are wasting trillions of dollars on green scams that do not work (do not significantly reduce CO2 emissions, the conversion of food to biofuel is the worst example that insane policy will lead to starvation and unimaginable loss of habitat if it is not stopped) Nuclear power is the long term answer for most energy requirements unless there is a breakthrough in fundamental physics. The money that is being forced to be spent on green scams, should be spent on education, health care, roads, bridges, high speed internet, nuclear power plant optimized/standardized design, natural gas production, coal plant optimization/standardized design, environmental protection, energy conservation, and so on.
The so called skeptics are saying that warmist’s policy is irrational (there is no AGW/CO2 problem to solve), unsustainable, damaging to the environment, and so on which is quite different to the assertion that we are skeptical about global warming/climate change.
It it that kind of presentation that makes that conference so pleasant and useful.
Sigh… And me on the East Coast when they meet on the West Coast… Maybe the next one will be near somewhere I’m at 😉
One of the high points of the last few decades was my one attendance in Chicago. Maybe next time.
@William Howard Astley:
It is much more “rational” and makes much more “sense” once you reliaze that it is a very short walk from “Never let a serious crisis go to waste.” to “Create a serious crisis on demand to empower your agenda.”
These folks actively work to create a “serious crisis”. All The Time. It is just a ploy to claim otherwise. FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) are the tools used to herd people into the pen.
I would add that a person who believes in global warming has to believe that water can melt even when it is below 32 as well as defy the laws of Physics & Chemistry!
vukcevic says:
” The AMO is only reflected in the CET summer months ”
Also in Spring and Autumn, with the Autumn signal stronger in Scotland:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/actualmonthly/
richardscourtney says: July 14, 2014 at 8:20 am
The short-term lag of CO2 changes behind temperature changes is between ~5 and ~9 months depending on latitude. The seminal work of Kuo et al. determined the lag at Mauna Loa to be 150 +/- 6 days.
I don’t know a published error estimate of the typical lag of CO2 behind temperature at longer time scales which is indicated by ice core data. Eyeballing suggests about 800 years +/- ~100 years for the Greenland ice cores.
————————————-
If what you say is true then the lag has changed by some 800years since the ice core measurements.
If this is aphysical effect then this must remain the same. Hopefully you can say what the difference is between co2 and temperature between ice cores and now.
I would speculate that the ice core data is too indeterminate to really show lead or lag.
sergeiMK:
At July 14, 2014 at 11:20 am you say to me
Sorry, but try as I may, I cannot make any sense of that so I cannot reply to it.
If you want me to respond it is necessary for you to expand and to clarify each of your three statements.
Richard
Concluding question by Roy Spencer in his ICCC9 talk, “So, given all this evidence … why aren’t scientists advocating producing MORE carbon dioxide?”
I wouldn’t advocate more carbon dioxide because of the law of unintended consequences. When there are 7 billion humans, I suspect it’s a good idea to keep our footprint as small as possible within a science-based cost/benefit analysis.
Mary, what a wonderful resource. Many thanks for your post.
~ Mark
Ric Werme says:
July 14, 2014 at 4:57 am
Spencer is one of the best speakers we have. Completely devoid of the “holier than thou” personality that Lord Monckton sometimes uses that can be a bit irritating.
——————————–
Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Is there no transcript available, with accompanying images?
Thank you for the link to this fascinating conference. When first I saw Al Gore’s film, I took notes, and I still have them. My comments refer mainly to the flimsy glossing over of information for propaganda purposes – for example, the CO2 we’re producing ‘thickens the atmosphere’, and I wrote that ‘so far, Gore has given no units for the data shown’. I also read his book. Having a solid scientific education myself, I immediately thought Gore’s book the most blatant and skilfully produced propaganda publication I’d ever seen.
Thankfully, I then came across books by S.Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery, Ian Plimer, Robert Carter, and Roy W. Spencer, and I would like to take a moment to thank these gentlemen for their work in putting across complex ideas in a way that a non-specialist layman can understand. Their help via the printed word has been invaluable.
I’ve often found myself wondering why I’ve spend so much time reading books and other publications on the alleged man-made global warming, as well as visiting WUWT and Jo Nova’s website.
I’ve contributed letters to newspaper discussions on the subject, and written letters to Members of Parliament (MPs) here in the UK. I’ve also opposed planned wind turbines by writing to local government officials.
The reason for doing all this is almost certainly because this twisting of science is something I feel strongly about. Also, if truth be told, the smug arrogance of the activists, including those with university degrees who should know better, irritates me and there’s nothing better than ‘putting one over’ them in print!
I’ve noticed that whenever real-world data is presented, no figures are ever produced by these people as a riposte. The points made are sidestepped. This has been the case with a Member of the European Parliament I’ve written to, and also my regional Member of the British Parliament.
The Heartlands Conference gives me a warm feeling of hope.
Pity that the video is “off air” here in Scotland.
Would love a YouTube link for those of us with Android devices that can’t play Flash content.
Abel Garcia says:
July 14, 2014 at 9:44 am
I would add that a person who believes in global warming has to believe that water can melt even when it is below 32 as well as defy the laws of Physics & Chemistry!
————
D’oh…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_water
At typical salinity it freezes at about −2 °C (28 °F)
Ulric Lyons says:
July 14, 2014 at 10:29 am
………..
Yes, to a lesser degree, since the spring and autumn are transitions between the winter (negligible correlation) and summer (high correlation).
Instead quoting a lot of numbers I have added info to the LINK .
Sadly, very few people are interested in the CET (including those directly affected by it) and even fewer do have in depth knowledge of its main features.
Great speech by Dr. Spencer. At 15 minutes or so he mentions the source for one of the graphs. (KNMI Climate Explorer) ” out of Denmark I think” . Well that has to be the Netherlands.
KNMI is the abbreviation of ” Koninklijk Nederlands Meteorologisch Instituut” . (Royal Dutch/Netherlands Meteorogical Institute) founded in 1854 as one of the first of its kind.
http://climexp.knmi.nl/ knmi.nl
vukcevic says:
“Yes, to a lesser degree”
Look again, the Spring variation is greater than the Summer.
This from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Spencer_(scientist)):
“In the book The Evolution Crisis, Spencer wrote, “I finally became convinced that the theory of creation actually had a much better scientific basis than the theory of evolution, for the creation model was actually better able to explain the physical and biological complexity in the world.”
So essentially your keynote speaker is also an advocate for Intelligent Design.
Speaks volumes doesn’t it?
I agree, it would be great to have the individual presentations in YouTube format so I could link them to my friends, and on Facebook…If I knew how to do it I would tackle the job myself…
Siberian_Husky says:
July 14, 2014 at 8:11 pm
“Speaks volumes doesn’t it?”
No, it speaks nothing. This statement is that of a “lazy writer” – with nothing to say and not knowing how to say it you have contributed a meaningless cliché. If you don’t know anything about Earth’s systems why not spend your time reading?
Siberian_Husky says:
July 14, 2014 at 8:11 pm
> So essentially your keynote speaker is also an advocate for Intelligent Design.
I have never heard Roy “advocate” for his beliefs in how life on Earth evolved. I have heard him state that he can’t resolve the age of Earth (or at least since life evolved) with its current complexity. So he concludes it had help. Feel free to agree, disagree, or be outraged.
I don’t see any sign that has affected his science, so I disagree, but still celebrate his science.