Hard vs. the Soft Sciences

Guest essay by Steven Burnett

This is an essay regarding the fundamental differences between the hard and soft sciences. While I don’t emphasize climatology much in the essay, I believe this may provide some insight into the chasm of evidence and approach between the two.

Recently, more climate consenters have been starting to grapple with the uncomfortable fact that the discrepancies between models and reality are, in fact, significant. While there are still some holdouts there have been more than a few mainstream discussions about some of the “softness” in climate science.

In a way it’s an olive branch to the climate skeptics. While there are crazies on both sides of the climate debate, I find that the core of climate skepticism stems from articulating the differences between the hard and soft sciences. I have studied and been degreed in both, and would like to offer up some explanations and examples of the differences between them.

I have been a scientist since before I had proper memory formation. My father, an engineer, and I used to go for walks and he explained the physical world the way an engineer sees it. So, as the story goes, by the time I was 13 months I pointed to a condensation trail by an airplane and explained to my mother what it was and how it was formed.

My first childhood Hero was Egon Spengler, a ghostbuster, and I pulled out my encyclopedias and looked for definitions of all the terms used in the movies and cartoons. I was then introduced to Back to the Future and my interests moved from nuclear particles to space time. Naturally my hero moved to Einstein. But it wasn’t just movies that influenced my development as a scientist. I had children’s books on Louis Pasteur, Dr. Ballard, Edison and Galileo. Each of these scientists drastically moved humanity’s understanding forward, despite enormous criticism of their theories and hypothesis. Needless to say my scientific heroes weren’t particularly popular in their day and age.

As a child I was listed as gifted learning disabled. I was diagnosed with Asperger’s, dysgraphia, and ADD while I was young. I thus had poor social skills, a short attention span, and couldn’t write legibly. As an extrovert, having trouble with nonverbal communication was a massive struggle. I turned to my books, encyclopedias, and the library to attempt to understand and solve the problem. There is an incredible amount of information and not being able to focus appreciably on a single source led to research threads through multiple disciplines. At the end of the day my choice was simple, experiment with social techniques or give up. I chose the former.

I still perform regular experiments and log the data. All results are mentally catalogued, anomalies flagged and reviewed until I thoroughly understand what nuances I missed. The system isn’t perfect, I can intone or inflect improperly, I can also mistakenly use accurate but socially improper lexicon as my vocabulary is immense. Failures can lead to hostility, repudiation or ostracization. Society is more unforgiving than many realize, but my experiments have been fruitful. The application of successful techniques has helped me mitigate eccentric behaviors and evolve or cultivate strategies which help me appear normal. The proper application of the scientific method in my daily life is the difference between being functional and not.

Being able to screen good hypothesis formulation, experimental technique and results was an integral part of my development. Determining logical fallacies and errors, standards of proof and reproducibility was the difference between keeping friends and losing them. It is also how I fundamentally distinguish behind the hard and soft sciences.

The whole reason for this essay came from me stumbling upon the Wikipedia article attempting to distinguish between the two and being frankly dumbfounded. I have to reproduce the second paragraph in full so that everyone truly understands my issue.

Philosophers and sociologists of science have not been able to confirm the relationship between these characteristics and perceived hardness or softness in empirical studies. Supposedly more “developed” hard sciences do not in fact have a greater degree of consensus or selectivity in accepting new results. Commonly cited methodological differences are also not a reliable indicator. Psychologists use controlled experiments andeconomists use mathematical modelling, but as social sciences both are usually considered soft sciences, while natural sciences such as biology do not always aim to generate testable predictions. There are some measurable differences between hard and soft sciences. For example, hard sciences make more extensive use of graphs,[4][11]and soft sciences are more prone to a rapid turnover of buzzwords.”

In short philosophers, and sociologists of science, both soft science fields, haven’t been able to confirm the differences. They point to a lack of consensus in the hard sciences, controlled experiments and mathematical models. The analysis is about as meaningful as finding no difference between a peewee and professional basketball game because they both shoot rubberized orange balls at hoops. That is exactly the problem with the soft sciences, they can get the results they want by only evaluating the characteristics they choose.

Ironically I have been degreed in both the hard and soft sciences. I possess a bachelors in chemical engineering and psychology. Asking someone what they want to do for the rest of their life at 18 is a bit tough to answer especially when your knowledgebase and interests were as tremendously varied as were mine.

I started as a biological engineer, thought it was a ridiculous amount of work compared with the political science and business majors I roomed with and switched to psychology. I wasn’t too far into the psychology program before I realized I despised psychology and by extension the other soft sciences. I only graduated with the degree to spite the psychology program, I’m not joking.

The soft sciences spend the first two weeks of a course talking about how they are a science, and the next 13 weeks destroying every pillar of the scientific method. When my research methods professor used Carl Sagan’s essay a dragon in my garage as a means of saying that nothing can be proven or disproved, I dropped my textbook on the floor, so it would make a rather loud sound, stopping the lecture. I then dropped it again, and remarked that maybe next time it will stay up because we totally can’t prove the existence of gravity. Looking back it wasn’t very nice, but there is only so much rage I can contain.

That isn’t the only instance of things that resulted in a massive mental face palm in that program. In the soft sciences it’s accepted that the phenomena are inherently complex, thus it is acceptable to formulate a study that does not eliminate variables beyond the one being studied. Statistics is used to sort for the significance of a result.

For instance in a survey there is no regard given to the difference between people who choose to respond vs simply throwing it out, and all responses are considered correct regardless of the topic’s nature. Imagine performing a survey on human sexuality that asked about frequency, number of partners and propensity for cheating. Accepting any of the responses as representative of the population as a whole is not only unverifiable, it’s also very likely to be wrong.

Personal bias enters any discussion of results frequently. There is very strong evidence from monozygotic twin studies and others that IQ is strongly correlated with genetics. Because of the implications regarding racial IQ discrepancies, we received rather lengthy lectures about any variables, missed test parameters and the like, every time these studies entered the curriculum. Even though IQ heritability has generally been confirmed as 85%[1], regardless of the test used, the idea of nature vs. nurture is still considered a legitimate debate topic in this “scientific” field. More importantly the variables we were warned about are accounted for in the original studies.

Of course it’s perfectly acceptable to present an ad hoc change of the definition of intelligence without a preceding lecture and caveats about possible problems or complications. If it tickles the political fancy it’s taught, even if there are no empirical studies to support the hypothesis. Gardner’s hypothesis was only one politically correct theory taught with no evidence.

Carol Gilligan is a published feminist who wrote about male bias and suppression in adolescent development. Neither she nor her disciples have ever been able to validate her claims. In the textbook Adolesence and Emerging Adulthood, her theories would receive a dedicated page or more, and were filled with notations about how “her writings have received a wide audience”, or, that a school was “so impressed with Gilligans findings that school authorities revised the entire school curriculum”. By comparison the fact that both girls and boys self esteem declines in adolescence, that she only uses excerpts of interviews in her research, or that no corroboration of her results can be found, were minimized. The section concluded with the paragraph,

“although Gilligan’s research methods can be criticized for certain flaws, other researchers have begun to explore the issues she has raised, using more rigorous methods. In one study Susan Harter and her colleagues examined Gilligan’s idea of losing one’s “voice” in adolescence…. ….However Harter’s research does not support Gilligan’s claim that girls’ voice declines as they enter adolescence.” [3]

In the hard sciences, a lack of evidence and poor methodology usually excludes theories and researchers who promote them from the textbooks and the classroom, but in psychology, I was still tested on them.

Unfortunately soft science is spreading into the other domains. In my capstone course we had to watch the thoroughly debunked Gasland documentary. We heard about fracking fluids, well contamination and maybe just possibly earthquakes caused by the process. When I presented three studies that thoroughly destroyed the claims the professor dismissed them with a wave of his hand. We were required to take a course called energy and the environment, which is best described as green masturbation. When you present solar roads, indoor farming, renewables, and local agriculture, as a required engineering course without any sort of cost benefit analysis or numerical pretense what else can you call it?

Overall though, in chemical engineering we have very exact equations that give us very exact answers. These equations are derived from hundreds of experiments, outlining the variables for each substance used. Fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, heat transfer, physics, chemistry and other hard science disciplines have had to prove themselves correct by testing for the opposite conclusion. My thermodynamics textbook didn’t begin with a lecture about how scientific it is, it opened with the statement that the study of thermodynamics exists only because we haven’t found any instances where a system operates differently.

When neutrinos were detected moving faster than the speed of light it was a big deal. The result would have overwritten over 100 years of experiments saying it couldn’t be broken, it still hasn’t just FYI. When cold fusion experiments couldn’t be validated their proponents were laughed out of any major publication. In the hard sciences when the results of a hypothesis diverged from reality they were discarded and checked for errors, but it would still only take a single reproducible experiment to validate or invalidate the concept.

The same problems that plague psychology are rampant in climatology. Tribalism is strong enough that most are willing to break out into red or blue war paint. When faced with an incredibly complex problem they only design their experiments (climate models) to handle the variable they are interested in. Confounding variables, be it ENSO, the AMO, cosmic rays, TSI, ocean heating, surface albedo, UHI, and other impacts are ignored even though they have demonstrably significant impacts on their measurement parameter. When faced with falsifying data, the data is ignored or marginalized. There is no significant internal forensic review of the experimental construct once it can be declared dead, and they essentially keep cashing the checks and publishing as if the hypothesis are valid.

Please understand it’s not that soft sciences are pointless, they’re simply worthless. Examining what makes humans, society or even the climate tick are noble endeavors. The failure to demand reproducible or falsifiable results, reject failed hypothesis, or allow for and defend work that is riddled with personal or political bias is what undermines these fields, it’s what makes them “soft”. More succinctly the problem with these fields isn’t entirely methodological, it’s cultural and it exists at every stage of training.

Inevitably, the ignorance of logical fallacies and degradation of the sciences begs the question why. Perhaps its tied to the ever increasing percentage of American’s who are going to college. After all, more students means more professors. Perhaps it’s a hiring bias[2], and subsequent group think, or maybe hiring more professors simply means they have to lower standards. By the same token, making more money available for grants may allow for more shoddy research. My hard science background was rooted in survival, perhaps not needing to worry about your next meal is bad for scientists. Like Kohlbergs sixth stage of moral development, maybe it’s simply too difficult to uphold the standard. It’s Ironic that after all my research, and all my studies, that the most compelling insight likely comes from the ghostbusters.

If I may wax poetic for a moment, the hard sciences are like a rock while the soft sciences are like sand. They are fundamentally composed of the same stuff, but it’s the structure that makes them different. You must find a comfortable spot to rest on the rock but sand conforms around you. An uncomfortable rock must be dealt with, sand can simply be brushed away. Rock climbing requires training and equipment, a walk on the beach does not. I have had the opportunity to do both, and from personal experience, rock climbing is both harder and more fulfilling.

References

1. Bouchard, Thomas J. “Genetic Influence on Human Psychological Traits. A Survey.” Current Directions in Psychological Science 13.4 (2004): 148-51. Print.

2. Inbar, Y., and J. Lammers. “Political Diversity in Social and Personality Psychology.” Perspectives on Psychological Science 7.5 (2012): 496-503. Web.

3. Arnett, Jeffrey Jensen. Adolescence and Emerging Adulthood: A Cultural Approach. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Pearson Prentice Hall, 2007. Print.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

108 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
catilac
May 20, 2014 3:53 pm

Sheldon?

Seattle
May 20, 2014 3:54 pm

According to “Gauss”, mathematics is “the Queen of the Sciences” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics
But I understand what you are saying, Theo.

Theo Goodwin
May 20, 2014 4:22 pm

Seattle says:
May 20, 2014 at 3:36 pm
“The Law of S and D exists in the state of nature but is violated by bandits” – Theo Goodwin
“How is it violated? In my area, possession of marijuana may be illegal, but there are still voluntary exchanges and the higgling of buyers and sellers still fixes a price (e.g. $300 / oz).”
Those people may not be bandits. I am talking those who use a gun to “facilitate” an exchange. Read Locke.

Philemon
May 20, 2014 6:02 pm

The distinction between hard and soft sciences is, unfortunately, not hard science.
Moreover, physics, biology, geology, economics – which is practically asking for it – ahem!, psychology, linguistics, and even philosophy have all fallen prey to politics at one time or another.
It’s depressing, but, to cheer you up, here’s Tom Lehrer!

Steve P
May 20, 2014 6:19 pm

Theo Goodwin says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:56 am

Doug says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:16 am
I just stated an empirical test that has not failed. The soft sciences have no universal generalizations that are highly confirmed through active or passive experimentation. Produce one and I will withdraw my claim.
All hard sciences use universal generalizations that are highly confirmed (have stood the test of time).

Proverbs are often allegorical condensed wisdom of human beings. They are soft, but firmly so.

Look before you leap / Fools rush in
A stitch in time saves nine.
(Get the) Right tool for the job.
Save something for a rainy day.
(Don’t take) Sand to the beach ./ ‘Coals to Newcastle
Check 6
&c

Math and physics are underpinned by logic, no?
In related matters, CO2 remains ostensibly well-mixed despite that fact that JAXA’s Ibuki GOSAT CO2-sniffing satellite shows spatial and temporal variations in CO2 flux, which is not-so-good for the well-mixed assumption. The JAXA satellite data also show that the northern industrialized nations are nets sinks of CO2 during the summer months, which blows the wheels off the plan revving up among 3rd word poor nations to tax wealthy nations for damage due to climate change..
Soft, fuzzy logic in the face of contradictory hard data. Anthony and E.M. Smith have been all over this going back…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/29/co2-well-mixed-or-mixed-signals/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/13/some-results-from-gosat-co2-hot-spots-in-interesting-places/
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/japanese-satellites-say-3rd-world-owes-co2-reparations-to-the-west/
Hard-boiled eggs, soft-boiled eggs, and unboiled eggs may look the same…

Dave Worley
May 20, 2014 7:16 pm

“We can find no other cause for the warming besides the CO2 increase.”
I’m glad you mentioned ghost busters, because my favorite argument against the above fallacy includes the ghost busters.
It goes like this: My neigbor insists that the noises in my attic are ghosts. He admonishes me for not calling in the ghostbusters. I tell my neighbor that they may be friendly ghosts, so I prefer to just leave them alone thank you.
At a Harvard “women and science” symposium about 6 years ago, the then President cited studies indicating that statistically males are better able to rotate and manipulate 3d objects in their minds (imaginary objects). He merely cited these studies as one of many possibilities to consider in the discussion of why less females pursue physics. At least one professor stormed out, and the political correctness firestorm that followed forced him to apologize. I would say that is another good example of the difference between soft and hard sciences.
Emotions are about as undefinable as anything else in nature. I would agree that Psychology may be the softest science there is.

May 20, 2014 7:54 pm

“The distinction between hard and soft science is a soft science distinction (and has been since the sociologist Auguste Comte came up with it), if soft science is useless, then so is the distinction.”
yup.

May 20, 2014 7:56 pm

“I think “Two dogmas of empiricism” is pretty much required reading on this matter.”
Yup

TheLastDemocrat
May 20, 2014 8:34 pm

Theo Goodwin says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:56 am
Doug says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:16 am
I just stated an empirical test that has not failed. The soft sciences have no universal generalizations that are highly confirmed through active or passive experimentation. Produce one and I will withdraw my claim.
All hard sciences use universal generalizations that are highly confirmed (have stood the test of time).
–Somewhere along the line, I was shocked to see some graph of melting point of some metal across a temperature range. The results were not all uniformly on the line!
This myth that “hard science” has some super high level of certainty and predictability is a myth.
Just try to shake out the correct amounts of chemicals from the containers, have them combine, and see if you get the exact output/results your equations predict.
It might happen one in a hundred times.
Physics or chemistry may be “perfect” in the lab, but in reality, predictions are only within some margin of error. Material purity, humidity, temperature, and other influences keep lab-level predictability from being observed in the real world.
http://ba201w2012.blogspot.com/2012/03/houston-what-decision-should-i-make.html
–Why aren’t all of those dots on a line?

TheLastDemocrat
May 20, 2014 8:45 pm

The proof of the predictive validity of the “soft” sciences is the overwhelming adherence of great portions of the populace to the idea of man-made global warming in the face of obvious disproving evidence.
How?
This whole scam is a product of social sciences. It has worked. The first school of social sciences was the Institute for Social Science Research in the 1930s, in Frankfurt, Germany, AKA The Berlin School. Marxists all.
The intellectual line has been continuous. They have studied the factors that lead to the formation of our perceptions of authority, of confidence in supposed knowledge, of formation of opinion, and so on.
Ultimately, they have figured out how to deliver messages of their choice that are unethical and factually wrong, but are following the laws of soft sciences so well that they are successful. It is like understanding human attention (phi phenomenon, etc.) well enough to repeatedly stun people with a magic trick they will swear is fake but have no idea how it is carried out – the old saw-a-lady-in-half trick.
Every hustler winning three-card-monte on the street is using us – our “psychology” – against us – and winning.
I played three-card-monte / AKA the shell game – once in an entertainment setting. I figured out how to win: follow the Queen, then when the cards stopped moving, guess EITHER of the other two cards besides the one I was sure was the Queen. I began winning.
Likewise, the sociologists have studies voting patterns, opinion formation, our altruistic emotion formation, tpyes of political appeals, etc., and have used all of those to get us to buy into unfounded dooms-day scenarios and have each of us believe that we are being virtuous as we do so.
Here, sociologists FTW.

Jimmy Finley
May 20, 2014 9:14 pm

Theo Goodwin says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:12 am “…Seems to me that, of all hard sciences, Geology would be the most fun to teach….” Yes, one can wave one’s arms more here than just about any other science. Because much of geology is eradicated, and some barely accessible to us latecomers, and much is happening at depth, and so slowly, that we cannot really grasp it.
Stephen Rasey says:
May 20, 2014 at 10:57 am: Great response to Theo on the subject of geology. A friend of mine, a very good geologist, once told me that it is “a pseudo-science”. Much is probably unknowable, but what is knowable is being dug into by good scientists with fervor. In a broad way, the present is key to the past, but because some things are unique to the past, at some point, we can only guess what transpired.
Seattle says:
May 20, 2014 at 3:44 pm: What? Have you overturned these “a priori axioms” – “…such as the cross-cutting relationships?…” These aren’t “a priori” in any way; they come from people going into the field and mapping the rocks. Geology is based on observation, mapping, comparison and measurement. But maybe there is a Nobel Prize awaiting you for overturning some of the key conclusions of thousands of good observers. Hmmph.

Seattle
May 20, 2014 10:47 pm

Jimmy Finley says:
May 20, 2014 at 9:14 pm : I wasn’t disparaging geology. Only pointing out instances where a priori knowledge is used in hard science.
The use of logic is another example.

Doug
May 21, 2014 12:20 am

Seattle says:
May 20, 2014 at 1:50 pm
No. Mathematics most certainly does in no way shape or form underpin anything, much less everything. It is a great way to describe things in reality, but it is not “real” or “true”.
What you are describing is logical positivism, some of the greatest minds in history have tried to substantiate the claim, but to man they all only succeeded in proving in many diverse ways that it is not and absolutely cannot be true.
If you want a “truth” in science, that is the best one you will ever get. There are three broad ways of thinking about truth in mathematics: Platonism (basically claiming it as a religious fact), Nominalism (which fails horribly beyond the simplest mathematics) or Instrumentalism (which basically says that the only sense in which math can be considered true is in that it is useful, the only position with solid support beyond wishful thinking).

Doug
May 21, 2014 12:40 am

Steve P says:
May 20, 2014 at 6:19 pm
“Math and physics are underpinned by logic, no?”
Heavens no!
It sounds like good idea, but I assure you that the only way to arrive at that conclusion is to break logic entirely which, by the ex falso quodlibet, renders anything you claim to prove afterwards essentially only based on empiricism alone.
You can use logic to ensure the internal structural validity of an argument, but the “truth” of it will always and by necessity be an external matter, which logic can (by the paradox of analysis) have no access to.
That’s why you can’t test models against models. The model is a purely rational tool, driven only by logic which simulates (at best) mathematics. The computer has concept of what the numbers it uses means and still less what connection it has to reality. It just churn signals blindly.
That is also why GIGO exists on the other side. The only truth in the mathematics is where you either see that the result matches your observation, or that the result has sufficiently reliably matched the observation in the past for you to substitute it for an observation for practical reasons.
But neither the model nor the result is rendered “true” by this in the logical sense. Otherwise there would be no place for “hard sciences” to begin with, logic being firmly in the “soft science” philosophy department.

Michael Larkin
May 21, 2014 1:02 am

I had mixed reactions to this essay. On the one hand, it gave me insight into how the author thinks, what challenges he overcame, and so on. On the other, I think that the “hard” sciences are actually the easiest to do, and the “soft” ones, the hardest.
Hard science is largely confined to the study of *relatively* simple phenomena that are susceptible to the application of well-designed experiments. When I say the phenomena are relatively simple, I don’t mean that studying them might not involve the application of difficult mathematics, or the construction of devilishly intricate test equipment like the LHC.
The fundamental phenomena of physics, such as particles and waves, are not as complex as, say, human behaviour, or embryological development, or the climate system. “Softer” scientists probably wish that the phenomena they study were like that, and maybe the mistake they make is to try to deal with them as if they were, when they’re anything but. They are forced to fill in the cracks with pretty malleable putty (aka BS).
Doing that might help them feel on a par with practitioners of hard science, but I don’t think we yet have a science that’s hard (in the sense of sophisticated) enough to examine anything much above fundamental physics and chemistry. No scientist of so-called “hard” subjects, however accomplished, can yet handle that, and it’s hardly surprising that no “soft” scientist can either.
IMO, we will have to get very much cleverer than we currently are to be able to generate sufficiently sophisticated approaches to studying such complexity with rigour. If and when we get to that stage, perhaps we will discover how hard science really can be, but isn’t yet.

Joseph Murphy
May 21, 2014 3:49 am

What makes them soft sciences is that they don’t discover any truth about nature. What Law has psychology laid out for us? Or climatology? All that work with no results, well, at least no hard science result. The hard sciences are certainly not immune from this phenomena. Physics was a nice hard science until quantum mechanics allowed philosophy to slip into physics unoticed. Now, listening to a lecture on the latest QM theories and ‘discoveries’ is like an amatuer philosophy 101 circle jerk. It makes for good entertainment and grabs the attention of the laymen but it is bothersome to see such pseudoscience accepted as legitimate research.

Russ in TX
May 21, 2014 6:45 am

No soft science pretends to be a hard science without the person making the claim properly being laughed out of the room. “Soft” vs “Hard” science is not a function of better-vs-worse; it is a function of substance. A “Soft” science is a “wissenschaft,” its results subject to interpretation and not amenable to empirical solution. In my own fields, history and experimental archaeology, we encounter this all the time. Sachkritik may appear in good-quality work, but none of us are under any illusions that what we do is an actual science.

Zeke
May 21, 2014 7:28 am

“Personal bias enters any discussion of results frequently. There is very strong evidence from monozygotic twin studies and others that IQ is strongly correlated with genetics.”
The separation of identical twins at birth by a NY adoption agency, and the subsequent studies on those twins, has resulted in assertions like these. When the twins, who had been deliberately placed in comparable homes shortly after birth by adoption, were reunited, there were indeed similarities in their life decisions, their intelligence tests, skin conductance, and even in their dress and choice of hobbies and careers.
One of the famous examples includes brothers who had married wives with the same name, both become fire fighters, and had even given the same name to their dogs and I think their sons also.
There are many names in the eugenics fields who turn up in the major studies.
I will simply point out that this study then also by the same standard indicate that there is a genetic basis for what you name your dog and whether you remarry after a divorce or not. And the problems worsen as these experts simply introduce a mechanism for genetic expression which somehow governs what your major is in college.
The similarities between MZ twins in all of these studies does not necessarily mean that their decisions had a genetic basis. It may have other explanations. This is also buttressing a resurgence in eugenics/population control studies. Attachment theory is the most promising area for studying intelligence. The answer is not ripping kids out of their homes earlier and earlier, and giving them “intelligence tests” at the age of nine to determine their life’s limitations and future schooling choices. Be careful because the Twins Studies revealed many similarities, besides intelligence, between twins that were reared apart; therefore one would have to accept that almost all traits, decisions, and likes and dislikes are genetically based. There is no mechanism for these kinds of genetic expressions, and there are other reasons why identical twins were so similar even when they did not know of eachother’s existence until they were in there 30’s or 40’s, and even in their 60’s.

Theo Goodwin
May 21, 2014 7:44 am

Steven Mosher says:
May 20, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Sorry, but that essay argues that individual theoretical sentences do not have unique sets of observation sentences that could falsify them. The argument is pretty much against Rudolf Carnap who held that each theoretical sentence has its very own unique empirical meaning.
I have accepted all of that essay for at least 45 years. The essay has no bearing on the claims that I made above.
The fundamental idea of empiricism is that theories which are about the world must have their feet held to the fire of human experience expressed as community wide observation sentences. How radical is that? Only the Frankfurt School would deny it. For them, there is the dialectic of nature to deal with. If you can get someone to hire you to discuss dialectics of nature you are guaranteed no stress for the rest of your life.

Steve P
May 21, 2014 7:52 am

Doug says:
May 21, 2014 at 12:40 am

Steve P says:
May 20, 2014 at 6:19 pm
“Math and physics are underpinned by logic, no?”
Heavens no!
It sounds like good idea, but I assure you that the only way to arrive at that conclusion is to break logic entirely which, by the ex falso quodlibet, renders anything you claim to prove afterwards essentially only based on empiricism alone.

Yes, my statement was mangled. What I mean is that logic precedes math and science. First we ask the question, then we figure out a way to arrive at the answer. So in that sense, until you have logic, you have no need or use for math or science.
Logic leads math, physics, and the other hard sciences because without argument, there is no logic, no rhyme or reason, for doing the numbers, or running the experiment in the first place.
The first step in problem-solving is recognition of the problem, and that is a logical process, but it is based on experience:
Hard science relies on empirical data – the kind that can be observed, measured, and recorded, or quantified, while the soft sciences have no such precise metric as numbers, and its subjects are instead usually qualified, or described and evaluated with words, which are soft.
So logic is soft, but it recognizes its own limitations, and sets internal rules to overcome these.
But obviously there is great merit and synergy to soft and hard systems working in unison like this, and we may evaluate the success of this approach by considering and appreciating the achievements of Western Civilization over the last five millennia.
.

ezra abrams
May 21, 2014 9:55 am

why is it that nerds from MIT almost always wind up working for better paid marketing people from Harvard ?
Cause the “hard” sciences are anywheres near as hard as you think; your total premise is just nonsense
OR, was R Feynman remarked, next time a physicist is boasting about how he can predict the origin of the universe, ask him what happens when you push water through a pipe; he can’t tell you .
PS: lean how to write; all that stuff in the front about your growing up and aspergers; irrelevant to your argument; you need to learn how to focus an essay

DavidCage
May 21, 2014 10:19 am

I beg to differ. As and engineer I had a low opinion of social science and decided to do a degree in it to see how well it stood up to examination. I found that while it had not the certainty of the hard sciences it had a rigorous appreciation of the potential for error in the data and the interpretation of it. I came away with a respect for it as both uncertain in that it dealt with a very uncertain starting point of people but a belief in its integrity not always reflected in the public reporting of its conclusions.
I started to do the same for climate science when I accidentally picked up a file during a set of tempest test on the radios we were working on that showed what I will charitably label as questionable practices. The more I looked and found out the greater the extent of not just bad practice but of overt dishonesty in candidate selection for grants with pro AGW second class honours graduates from low ranking universities getting preference over first class ones from much higher ranking ones just for questioning the “corrections” to the anomaly figures in their work.
The were increasing the warming effect knowing full well that there was no sound justification for it whatever.

Doug
May 21, 2014 11:11 am

Steve P says:
May 21, 2014 at 7:52 am
No.
Logic is about as hard as it gets in terms of reliability and truth preservation. If you have a valid model and true inputs you are 100% certain to have a true outcome.
The “softness” comes in when you start asking empirical questions about what constitutes the “truth” of a proposition. Logic plays no role here. Mathematics does, but if you take the case of of economics (which is the only science where the inputs are given in numerical form) it does not guarantee “hardness”.
What I am trying to illustrate is that the very idea of hard vs. soft science falls apart when you examine it critically. It is not mathematics, nor logic, nor empiricism, nor reliability nor even practical applicability that determines it.
At best it is a question of subject matter, some of which lend themselves to comparatively simple explanation and others do not. The reason why the techniques of “hard” sciences don’t work well in the “soft” ones is because the questions are much harder.
That is why climate science is a soft science, and will remain so until some really clear and reliable predictions can be made using comparatively simple techniques. It has nothing to do with numbers, methods or observations.

TheLastDemocrat
May 21, 2014 11:23 am

BTW I think the essay is pretty good, considering it is from someone who is not an essayist by profession, and has to work quite hard at carrying on in social conversation.

TheLastDemocrat
May 21, 2014 11:47 am

It is ridiculous to claim “soft sciences” are not proper science.
Improper science is improper science. According to the scientific method, falsifiable predictions are made, and tested by observations. If the prediction is supported, then you have evidence that the hypothesis may be considered a fair candidate for “truth” as long as no other such test comes along to weaken it, a little or a lot.
We get told that evolution is a fact. Our local science museum says this.
The support of evolution is inductive logic, not observable, testable fact.
It is bad science to declare that the theory of evolution is truth. It simply has not been tested by a falsifiable, empirical test.
Likewise, declaring the earth to be 4 billion years old depends on inductive logic. Lead-lead dating depends upon many assumptions regarding the meteorite upon which it is based, assumptions about subsequent polluting lead, etc.
Inductive logic can be very useful for deciding whether something is true. But if you depend on inductive logic, but not scientific, a priori hypothesis testing, then a hypothesis is not a strong contender for a truth due to science but do to logic.
If a soft science is carried out a certain way, then it will be proper science.
Predictions in soft science are more difficult than in “hard” science. This is because the phenomena of soft science are at incredibly higher levels of complexity than “hard” science.
A human body, with its psychology, depends upon phenomena of “hard” sciences such as chemistry, electricity, hydrology, optics, and so on. A human body depends upon all of these, but not in a simple, additive way, like a car is a complex combination of these same “hard” science knowns.
A human takes these knowns and blends them into an incredibly much more complicated whole.
This is like saying climate can be predicted by knowing hydrology, radiation, etc. Climate is simply more complex. Optimistically, you could predict weather or climate fairly narrowly, since the complexity is really additive, not multiplicative.
Robert Cialdini have studied how people become persuaded of some belief when their initial stand is neutral, or contrary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini
This is decent psychological science. You make predictions, you can test them empirically, and you can move from micro-truths to more broad findings.
However, since humans are vastly more complex than molecules floating in a hypothetical task of water, you cannot simply apply some Brownian Motion formula and develop a fair probability of where the molecule will be in five seconds.
All you can arrive at are “principles.” Such as these: reciprocity (it is a principle of our psychology, generally, that if someone does something for us, we are more likely to do something for them, such as give me a jump start one day and I am more likely to return the favor when you need it); commitment and consistency; social proof; authority; liking; and scarcity.
See the link for more info on these.
This is not all-or-nothing. Just “more likely, generally.”
If there is no predictability to our buying behavior, then why are there advertisements? If there is predictability, then the rules of predictability can hypothetically be discovered. If they can be discovered, they can be used to influence buying behavior.
Anyone is ridiculous to not see how decent science can be performed in this “soft” science realm.
If the “soft” science is done poorly, such as a marketing study where experimenter bias, or sampling bias, is introduced, or fake data are used, then sure it is not good science.
Most of the “soft” science you hear about is in the media, and is there because 1. the “soft” scientists are actually Marxists, and are merely carrying out their belief system, and 2 our media holds Marxist values and beliefs and is willing to run any press release that fits the world view.