From the University of Vermont
Science: There’s something ancient in the icebox
Researchers find 3-million-year-old landscape beneath Greenland Ice Sheet

Glaciers are commonly thought to work like a belt sander. As they move over the land they scrape off everything—vegetation, soil, and even the top layer of bedrock. So scientists were greatly surprised to discover an ancient tundra landscape preserved under the Greenland Ice Sheet, below two miles of ice.
“We found organic soil that has been frozen to the bottom of the ice sheet for 2.7 million years,” said University of Vermont geologist Paul Bierman—providing strong evidence that the Greenland Ice Sheet has persisted much longer than previously known, enduring through many past periods of global warming.
He led an international team of scientists that reported their discovery on April 17 in the journal Science.
Greenland is a place of great interest to scientists and policymakers since the future stability of its huge ice sheet—the size of Alaska, and second only to Antarctica—will have a fundamental influence on how fast and high global sea levels rise from human-caused climate change.
“The ancient soil under the Greenland ice sheet helps to unravel an important mystery surrounding climate change,” said Dylan Rood a co-author on the new study from the Scottish Universities Environmental Research Centre and the University of California, Santa Barbara, “how did big ice sheets melt and grow in response to changes in temperature?”
The new discovery indicates that even during the warmest periods since the ice sheet formed, the center of Greenland remained stable; “it’s likely that it did not fully melt at any time,” Vermont’s Bierman said. This allowed a tundra landscape to be locked away, unmodified, under ice through millions of years of global warming and cooling.
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“The traditional knowledge about glaciers is that they are very powerful agents of erosion and can effectively strip a landscape clean,” said study co-author Lee Corbett, a UVM graduate student who prepared the silty ice samples for analysis. Instead, “we demonstrate that the Greenland Ice Sheet is not acting as an agent of erosion; in fact, at it’s center, it has performed incredibly little erosion since its inception almost three million years ago.”
Rather than scraping and sculpting the landscape, the ice sheet has been frozen to the ground, “a refrigerator that’s preserved this antique landscape,” Bierman said.
The scientists tested seventeen “dirty ice” samples from the bottommost forty feet of the 10,019-foot GISP2 ice core extracted from Summit, Greenland, in 1993. “Over twenty years, only a few people had looked hard at the sediments from the bottom of the core,” Bierman said. From this sediment, he and a team at the University of Vermont’s Cosmogenic Nuclide Laboratory extracted a rare form of the element beryllium, an isotope called beryllium-10. Formed by cosmic rays, it falls from the sky and sticks to rock and soil. The longer soil is exposed at Earth’s surface, the more beryllium-10 it accumulates. Measuring how much is in soil or a rock gives geologists a kind of exposure clock.
The researchers expected to only find soil eroded from glacier-scoured bedrock in the sediment at the bottom of the ice core. “So we thought we were going looking for a needle in haystack,” Bierman said. They planned to work diligently to find vanishingly small amounts of the beryllium—since the landscape under the ice sheet would have not been exposed to the sky. “It turned out that we found an elephant in a haystack,” he said; the silt had very high concentrations of the isotope when the team measured it on a particle accelerator at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
“On a global basis, we only find these sorts of beryllium concentrations in soils that have developed over hundreds of thousands to millions of years,” said Joseph Graly, who analyzed the beryllium data while at the University of Vermont.
The new research, supported by funding from the National Science Foundation, shows that “the soil had been stable and exposed at the surface for somewhere between 200,000 and one million years before being covered by ice,” notes Ben Crosby, a member of the research team from Idaho State University.
To help interpret these unexpected findings, the team also measured nitrogen and carbon that could have been left by plant material in the core sample. “The fact that measurable amounts of organic material were found in the silty ice indicates that soil must have been present under the ice,” said co-author Andrea Lini at the University of Vermont—and its composition suggests that the pre-glacial landscape may have been a partially forested tundra.
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“Greenland really was green! However, it was millions of years ago,” said Rood, “Greenland looked like the green Alaskan tundra, before it was covered by the second largest body of ice on Earth.” To confirm their findings about this ancient landscape, the researchers also measured beryllium levels in a modern permafrost tundra soil on the North Slope of Alaska. “The values were very similar,” said Bierman, “which made us more confident that what we found under Greenland was tundra soil.”
Many geologists are seeking a long-term view of the history of the Greenland Ice Sheet, including how it moves and has shaped the landscape beneath it—with an eye toward better understanding its future behavior. It’s 656,000 square miles of ice, containing enough water, if fully melted, to raise global sea levels twenty-three feet—”yet we have very little information about what is happening at the bed with regards to erosion and landscape formation,” said Corbett.
What is clear, however, from an abundance of worldwide indicators, is that global temperatures are on a path to be “far warmer than the warmest interglacials in millions of years,” said Bierman. “There is a 2.7-million-year-old soil sitting under Greenland. The ice sheet on top of it has not disappeared in the time in which humans became a species. But if we keep on our current trajectory, the ice sheet will not survive. And once you clear it off, it’s really hard to put it back on.”


Yes, the Greenland ice sheet formed 2.7 to 3 millions years ago. The earth has endured this present ice age for almost exactly the same length of time. The Greenland ice sheet’s existence is the symbol of this present ice age. Once it melts, this ice age will be officially over. That is not hard to take. Why do the warmist alarmists want the earth to remain in this ice age is beyond me.
@Jim Stevens
Like Algore, they own beach front property.
@Jim Stevens
They own beachfront property.
@Felix – oops! Sorry for my repeat! LOL
So studying grant land.. er Greenland is fundamental to understanding how fast and how high sea levels will change due to human caused climate change. And how would that differ from Gia climate change?
Are there any earth scientists anywhere that are not morons, or is it just the ones getting government grants for research that tries to convince us observed climate data are wrong that come off so ignorant?
For more than three decades, Science and the American Association of Science have been allied to fraud and malfeasance, unethical behavior and lack of morality.
Yet again, “Science” stands up to be beheaded yet again.
A sad epitaph.
Once again skeptics are right: Greenland’s ice is dynamic, and has grown and shrunk tremendously over time without destroying the planet.
I have a solution to the problem. Anyone who is displaced by rising sea levels from the melting Greenland Ice Sheet, shall be granted a parcel of land in….Greenland…where the land will be green and pure.
Least we forget that the Vikings grew crops on Greenland 1000 years ago where permafrost exists today.
I can’t seem to find a WUWT article anymore. It showed a calculation saying that if melting of Greenland continued at the present rate, the volume of ice wouldn’t change by the end the century – rounded to two significant digits. Anyone got the link?
If all the ice was gone, then the flooded land from sea level rise would not be occupied, the people would have moved on long ago, perhaps to Greenland, and you wouldn’t have a reason to put the ice back on Greenland. However, the timelines are so long that surely by then man would have moved on to other energy sources long before then. However, again, the true believers also seem to believe that CO2, once emitted or released from a fossil fuel, stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years when its closer to 5 to 7 years.
Also, the sea levels would drop in areas around the missing mass of ice of Greenland.
http://motls.blogspot.ca/2010/06/if-greenland-melted-sea-level-in.html
“But if we keep on our current trajectory, the ice sheet will not survive. ” said Bierman.
BS . Drawing a straight line through 1975-1995 may delude you to think so, but sorry doc, climate is not that simple.Projecting out the several thousand years it would take to melt GIS from a 20 year data sample is stupid.
Best to stay in your own area of specialised research when making public statements.
Gee they never quit do they. It has been known for eons, that Greenland is a large bowl full of ice, which would have to climb mountains to slip off into the ocean.
And that lost squadron in 1942 or thereabouts was found buried under some 260 feet of solid ice. That’s more than three feet of ice deposition each year (on average).
Keep this secret!
Such information as this is kept Secret by this organization: ECCO, the European Climate Communications Offisers. Read more about it here:
http://www.cicero.uio.no/webnews/index.aspx?id=11917
Glacial erosion depends on gravity. The flow is plastic and requires some distance to build momentum. I would wager the center of Antarctica is not scoured either.
This claims southern Greenland may have been forested:
Ancient Biomolecules from Deep Ice Cores Reveal a Forested Southern Greenland
All of the below is cut & pasted from: et al. Eske Willerslev,
Science 6 July 2007: Vol. 317. no. 5834, pp. 111 – 114, DOI: 10.1126/science.1141758
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/sci;317/5834/111
We show that high-altitude southern Greenland, currently lying below more than 2 kilometers of ice, was inhabited by a diverse array of conifer trees and insects within the past million years. The results provide direct evidence in support of a forested southern Greenland.
Also on NBC: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19619301/#.U1C4DFfYHfA
In 982 Eric the Red sailed west from Iceland and found a ‘green land’ He started a settlement there which grew to 4-5000 people and 150 farms. It lasted some 400years until the ‘Little Ice age’ of the Middle Ages saw the return of ice to Greenland.. see http://www.theeuroprobe.org 2012 – 015 The Great Global Warming Fraud
So. Soil exposed to the atmosphere is not depleted in 10Be, as we can see it in present day Alaska. After that I wonder what makes them think ice has never melted during the last 2.7 million years at the GISP2 site. If it did, meltwater would have brought down all the 10Be previously accumulated in the ice sheet, just to cover it with ice again as soon as cold conditions returned. That is, we could see the same 10Be enrichment at the bottom layer, so its presence tells us nothing about ice sheet history.
Expanding on the authors’ pop commentary we must conclude that Erik the Red knew this and decided to wait it out.
“So we thought we were going looking for a needle in haystack,” Bierman said. They planned to work diligently to find vanishingly small amounts of the beryllium—since the landscape under the ice sheet would have not been exposed to the sky. “It turned out that we found an elephant in a haystack,” he said; the silt had very high concentrations of the isotope when the team measured it on a particle accelerator at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
What must be the intensity of cosmic rays and solar activity? It is hardly surprising that there has been glaciation.
if the CAGW scam fully expired, there’d be no need for –
17 April: Reuters: Valerie Volcovici: Internal report slams U.S. handling of Abound Solar guarantees
The U.S. Department of Energy displayed a “lack of guidance” in how it dealt with millions of dollars in loan guarantees to now-bankrupt Abound Solar Manufacturing, the agency’s internal watchdog said in a report on Thursday…
In a 32-page report, the DOE’s Inspector General reviewed the case of Colorado-based Abound, which filed for bankruptcy protection in June 2012 and laid off more than 100 employees, after receiving about $70 million of a $400 million loan guaranteed by the government.
Although the DOE said it had identified and taken steps to mitigate risks, and suspended funding when the company failed to meet certain milestones, the IG report said the loan guarantee program had not established “comprehensive policies, procedures and guidance for awarding, monitoring and administering loans.”
“We noted a lack of guidance in the areas of the Board’s reconsideration of loans, the processes for resolving differences in professional opinions among the Program’s technical experts, the nature and timing of financial and industrial analysis, and the management of distressed loans,” the report said…
Since the Abound situation, the DOE also set up a risk committee.
To read the entire report on Abound, see: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f15/DOE-IG-0907.pdf
Undeterred by problems with its loan guarantees, the Obama administration on Thursday convened a “Solar Summit” to promote the use of the technology by private companies.
The White House also said it would lend staff and technical support to other parts of the administration to expand the use of renewable energy in federally subsidized housing…
Some $15 million will be set aside for state, local and tribal governments to build their solar portfolios.
Renewable energy now accounts for around 5 percent of electric generation in the United States. Solar comprises less than 1 percent, although its use is on the rise.
http://news.yahoo.com/internal-report-slams-u-handling-abound-solar-guarantees-205710023–finance.html?.tsrc=opera14
Steve from Rockwood says:
April 17, 2014 at 6:44 pm
I used to date ice. Then I met a Dutch girl.
Thanks , thanks, Steve
I just about choked when I saw that LOUTL , thanks LOL I am Dutch, but then I met a young lady from Wales, Talk about breakink Ice. (40 years ago) thanks.
In the local supermarket I asked why the iceberg lettuce were so small these days, without blinking she said “because of global warming”
asybot says:
April 18, 2014 at 12:02 am
I am Dutch, but then I met a young lady from Wales, Talk about breakink Ice. (40 years ago) thanks.
Was she from Snowdon ???
I am getting tired of the time frames used in some of these models papers and reports, 2 million years here, 4 million years there. I have lived and farmed on my property for a little over 25 years in some places the land has “settled” 6 to 10 feet (ok, 2-3 mtrs) without a 2 mile icecap. Add to that that in a news item today the “Keppler” scientists have found an earth like “Rockey” planet 500 light years away in a solar system where it is called “Kepler186-F” . Sorry but can some one help me here ? How can we see a “rockey” planet the size of earth 500 light years away? (We can barely see ice movements in the arctic from a 100 miles up!) In a solar system that has a red dwarf star (less bright than our sun). Can some one put that in physical perspective .
This is a grain of sand and then compare it to what Keppler 186f would look like from our point of view. I know the answers are going to include ” the permutations of the orbits of the other planets etc etc I do not believe for one second the scientists coming to these conclusions are much different than Mann etc . The conclusions they give are almost, if not impossible, to contest they have all the funding to keep on keep on going on. The Keppler project is important but do they have any template to hold up, ( gee maybe I am getting way to skeptical.) to compare their findings of today with?
john says:
April 18, 2014 at 12:10 am
asybot says:
April 18, 2014 at 12:02 am
I am Dutch, but then I met a young lady from Wales, Talk about breakink Ice. (40 years ago) thanks.
Was she from Snowdon ???
LOL, The snow melted thanks, but no I hope I spell it right : Glynngorrick?